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SleepingDragon Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:41 PM
Original message
Republicans now denying Moral Values theme: Old Bait and Switch
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 01:15 PM by SleepingDragon
In this morning's paper Charles Krauthammer writes:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44082-20 ...

Moral values myth

In the post-election analysis the liberal elite, led by the holy trinity of The New York Times - Krugman, Friedman and Dowd - just about lost its mind denouncing the return of medieval primitivism.

..."Moral values" encompasses abortion, gay marriage, Hollywood's influence, the general coarsening of the culture and, for some, the morality of premptive war. The way to logically pit this class of issues against the others would be to pit it against other classes: "war issues" or "foreign policy issues" and "economic issues". If you pit group against group, moral values comes in dead last:




So now we once again see the classic repug strategy. After pulling in the "Moral values" vote, it's time to dump the religious right and tack toward the center.

Wonder what the radical mullahs (Bob Jones and James Dobson) will think about the * administration waffling on their favorite theme. Two thoughts:

1. Dems should continue on message that the radical religious fringe has taken over the Repugs. Keep this albatros tightly tied around *'s neck. Repugs are trying to legislate moral values, aren't there enough government intrusions in our lives as it is? The mullahs are running the country.

2. Dems should at the same time point out to evangelical Christians that they've been dupped and encourage them to take their revenge on the Repugs in the next election, possibly by running third party candidates that truely reflect their moral concerns, like for instance Alan Keyes. Bush is really the anti-Christ and is merely paying lip service to "Moral Values" in order to institute a new world order based on greed, corruption and cronyism.

We need to drive a wedge between the party and its base. :evilgrin:
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candy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Who says politics isn't a blood sport? That's the way it is,-----
and has been for a long time.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. The corporatist elites who run the GOP don't give a damn...
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 12:49 PM by ClassWarrior
...about these issues. They just use them to start food fights, to distract the public and their moral conservative base from their real agenda.

NGU.


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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Maybe this will wake the normal Christians up!
Maybe they will see that they were used agian.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. There is a crack for that wedge.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 12:52 PM by ClassWarrior
Between the corporatist conservatives and the moralist conservatives. It's always been an unholy alliance. That's where our opportunity lies.

NGU.


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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Right. And now that they are the ones who have all the power
it seems like things will have to start getting sticky at some point.
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Streetdoc270 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. what we need to expose is
that what they call 'moral values' is nothing more than window dressing for intolerance and bigotry! When people say they voted on their moral value what they are telling you is 'I don't want no gay people getting married!' True moral values are the search for global peace, economic equality, health care, care for our elder population, and education. Someone who favors the death penalty or supports the bombing of women and children has no moral values!
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. According to their worldview, that's all hunky-dory.
Read "Don't Think of an Elephant" by George Lakoff. It explains this better than I could here.

NGU.


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SleepingDragon Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I've read Lakoff's stuff and agree.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 01:02 PM by SleepingDragon
This is an area where the right frame can help break this thing apart. The crack is there we just have to find the right way to split it open. A number of former fundamentalists and even current evangelicals realize this and have "seen the light". This is now a trickle that could be used to force the issue.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. You're right, too.
About 3 days after the election, I tried to write an essay about the conflict between the 2 groups by describing something I heard on a local "classic rock" station and juxtaposing that with another local station called "The Fish" which is a "safe for the whole family" Christian Contemporary station. The classic rock station is vulgar all day long, but this particular bit heard basically used the idea of marital rape as a joke. It was so sickening and the very idea that the Republican party, which this station touts on a regular basis, has the audacity to call itself the party of morality is just sickening.

Anyway, I couldn't finish the essay; I had to take a break from the whole election thing b/c it was driving me crazy, but I'm thinking about creating a website with examples of what the 2 opposing sides are saying, apparently without even realizing what the other side is up to.

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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. Fear not!
There is no way that the radical mullahs will allow themselves to be pushed aside or otherwise dumped. They have the party by the balls and they know it.

Friedman a member of the "liberal elite". OK Chuckie, whatever you say. :eyes:
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SleepingDragon Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. All the better to push the line "They're going to legislate our values"
The new party line by the talking heads is to try and run from this as fast as they can. "Oh no, were not radical, we just want to raise these issues" The mullahs will scare the sh*t out of the moderates who supported * and company. The turnout of the Religious right was a myth needed to cover the "extra" votes gotten by fraud. As the fraud gains momentum it will become more clear to evangelicals that they've been used to cover a lie.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. And it was INDEED a myth; and the Roverbots in the media pushed it
exactly like they were supposed to. It wasn't "moral values", it was "fear politics".

I'm reading "Elephant" now, and I can see how the election just absolutely proved the truths in the book.

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Wright Patman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. Dr. Krauthammer
is a neocon. All he and the Likud Party care about is getting the American military to fight Israel's battles for it in the Middle East.

I think the "moral values" mantra diverts attention, in his way of looking at things, from the war agenda. This is what he is ALL about. I've read his stuff for years. He's in a wheelchair from some kind of unfortunate accident he had while in his early 20s. I feel sorry for him. But it appears he has found warmongering as a useful hobby to overcome his sense of powerlessness.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.
It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

I may be a liberal, but I'm not the bleeding heart kind. I'll be damned if I'm going to have any sympathy for my sworn enemies.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Yeah, Dr. Strangelove.
"Moral values" does divert attention, but from a lot more than the war agenda. It diverts attention from the grand Radical RW money-and-power grab that encompasses the war agenda and so much more - the impoverishment of families, the rape of our environment, the destruction of our civil rights, etc., all in the name of profit.

Fucking Ferengi.

NGU.


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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. you're a bloody damn genius. now why haven't the dem
leadership thought of this. maybe they are a bunch of smart ass elitist.
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Ima Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. Good Plan
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SleepingDragon Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. It's already happening. See the GOP headed for civil War thread
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 03:12 PM by SleepingDragon
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SleepingDragon Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Also the thread: Just watched NOW with Bill Moyers - incredible show -
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 03:19 PM by SleepingDragon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Real Christians are beginning to say "Wait a minute!" Now if we can get them to see the vote fraud angle, so much the better.
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sundancekid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. to elaborate on each of your great 2-point plan: to #1 -the take over plan
will extend beyond the repugs to our whole nation; and to #2 - people of good will and in good faith have all been betrayed -- the mayberry macchiavellis care ONLY about being/remaining in power, NOT about making this a better world -- let's inspire the real people of faith to hold folks accountable by the criteria of: "by their works, you shall know them."
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SleepingDragon Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Looks like maybe the Leadership is wising up to the strategy
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
21. Republicans = New Pharisees
.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. "TheoCons", not Pharisees. Even some on the left, with a poor
understanding of the Bible, get the connotation wrong. It won't work for us; I've tried it.

I got that from Daily Kos and have been using it liberally ever since.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
24. Time to divide and conquer the GOP!
There is a true division in their party waiting to be exploited.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. bullshit. 3 years they have questioned my morality, christianity
patriotism, americanism............fuck them. they dont get out of it. every person that voted for bush, i will be challenging them to prove they are in a place to teach me a damn thing about morality. everything the repug does is going to go to the bottom line, and this is you teaching me morality

i am starting with intimidation of voter. voters in line in poor black neigborhoods up to ten hours. this is not a good example of morality. already you have failed in sitting example. further for not a single moral republican to stand up to this behavior, failed.

everything is going to be in morality talk

they dont get out of this. i am calling them on morality every step of the way
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. Did they pull the piece?
I'm getting an "Error" notice. WELL DUH! BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
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lgardengate Donating Member (341 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. And all Dems need to do is encourage the RW to do this cuz...
Then they will Never do it.If Liberals try to make it happen..it wont. It's not that hard to figure out what you suggest.
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trevize1138 Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
28. The divide will happen
I've mentioned in other forums here about the MN gubenatorial race of '02. It was a huge win for our current Republican governor because he won with only 44%. That's because we had an independant and a Democrat running who were nearly indistinguishable to the average voter. The independant got 20% and the Democrat got 36%.

The same thing can easily happen to the Republicans, and I think we need to work toward that goal especially in '06!
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
29. This isn't a waffle. It's a last-ditch tactic.
The fundies think they won this election for Bush, and they are looking to cash in the chips they thing they've earned. The Bushies, amazingly, are trying to par them off.

I smell that GOP civil war in the wind...
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Flubadubya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
30. Could you fix your link please...
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 09:47 AM by Flubadubya
ON EDIT: Never mind... I found the proper link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44082-20...
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