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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:48 AM
Original message
I want new Democratic leadership
and a whole new group of talking heads to represent us on the corporate news hit pieces. After watching Carville on MTP, I reached the final straw and honestly feel were are totally doomed if we allow the same half assed cast of characters to represent our party another day. We need a new fresh movement from the ground up. People that aren't part of the Washington evening party crowd rubbing shoulders with people we should be systematically destroying day in day out. I want someone I support as president to go balls to wall with the charges of voter fraud as was promised for years leading up to the election. I want people strong enough to tell America that the shrub's, Cheney's and Rove's in the world have started us on a path of a new fascist empire.

We are being led by the weak and politically neutered. We as a party have no hope at all with what we have. Someone has to step up and take things over fast.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. So Do I ! NT
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Hubert Flottz for PRESIDENT. From WV, has a dog named HOWDY and
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 11:04 AM by opihimoimoi
wife and kids. Thats enough for me.

Listen to his rants, read them when you can. A brain sharper you can hardly find these daze. and he don't need any radio to help him in debates either.

His plan includes real solutions, not like Bushies. His plans include a better OUTCOME, not like Bushbies. Flottzs Plans come from the Heart, the Brain, and from being Lost on the DU for 3 years and 3 months.

Citizens for Flottz should form groups and send the man some POWER. Not Money, But Power through Prayers, Wish, and Hope. If them don't work, then send Love.

Opi,

Campaign Lolo Commander
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ArthurDent Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. Keep dreaming
You want someone to say "Shrub is a Fascist"? You're better off becoming a professional roulette player.
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Dream on this
If new and stronger leadership doesn't come soon I will be one of the first in line to fix this shit the best way I can. I'm not going sit back while our country slips any further down this path.

That's a fucking promise smart ass!

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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Dead wood
I was at my DEC meeting yesterday in Florida. These people were walking around smiling like we won an election. Every county-wide and statehouse candidate we had was thouroughly trounced.

Informed of our choices for Florida Democratic chair, it was Scott Maddox (Real Bad) and worse.

The same entrenched, ineffectual leadership at the county level will stay in place.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Same here in Sarasota
DEC is pathetic. No one can tolerate them, so they end up leaving.
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. Howard came close
By comparing Bush to Milosevic!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. In this case.."close" is
is good enough! Thinking people can put it together that milosevic was a fascist dic.

Course I know that doesn't include almost half the voting population.
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vicman Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. Josh Marshall
has some interesting thoughts on this issue in his blog today.

www.talkingpointsmemo.com
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Thanks for posting this
It's does jive almost exactly with what I wrote. At least i'm not alone in my opinion!
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Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Interesting, hell yeah
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 11:12 AM by Ardee
Thanks for that link, I do not go there often enough....

"The GOP's problem with minorities isn't incidental; it's fundamental. Any genuine effort to aid minorities or the poor would instantly alienate a substantial portion of the Republican base. It's an electoral bind, inexorable and fixed. The Republicans can't be the party of both black opportunity and anti-black resentment, no matter how big the tent. The Democrats tried it; it didn't work.

--------snip-----

"The Dems did not get 48% of the popular vote for nothing. They got it because of what they were clearly for and clearly against. 48% isnt enough for the White House or enough to be the countrys majority party. But its nothing to sneeze at either. And many changes that would gain Democrats votes in the Red States would lose them votes or unity in the Blue ones.

This doesnt mean Dems should just stand-pat or be satisfied with what they have. They shouldnt; indeed, they cant. It is only to say that there are real limits to how many positions and rhetorical styles Dems can ape to good effect. And it means having a little more respect for themselves, their voters and what they claim to believe in than to collapse into a puddle of self-doubt just because this election didnt go their way."

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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. Damn it! I'd just be happy if there was even a mild attempt at
getting us to meet outside our cyber universe.
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Gyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
8. So do most of the posters here
but it isn't going to happen. The machine is stronger than it's constituents, who don't have the power to elect their party officers.

Specifically, the DLC is THE problem. Career appeasers and proven losers in 3 major elections. That makes them whores w/no currency w/anybody, who hope that enough ignorant fools will continue to throw $$$ at them. THAT is the current democratic party leadership.

Gyre
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. wanta bet?
Do you want to see what our wallets can and can not do? This is one of our biggest problems. It's time we collectively start to speak out against all of these worthless fucks that represent our party. If they feel they more obligated to corporate money and backing then it's time we leave them behind. There are many leaders in our party that are well thought out and also have the strength to back themselves up. A few that come to mind are Dean, Clark, Werner and Richardson.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. Many Americans...Democrats and Republicans...feel this way...
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 11:11 AM by Q
...but our society has been programmed with 'follow the leader' and team sports mentalities. We've been trained to elect a leadership and then drop out of the process. Those who question the leadership (on either side) are accused of being traitors to the cause.

- But isn't the 'cause' suppose to be a government of, by and for the people?
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cidliz2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
13. Man are you and I on the same page or what?
View my post "cidliz"
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. I think we need a petition to the culprits to let them know that they are
evidently the favorites of the RPNs (Republican Corporate Networks) and since we have no control over the RPNs, it is up to them to step aside and let someone with some blood left in their veins take their place.
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johngeraghty Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. ted kennedy
ted kennedy is still needed as a figurehead, we need a new kennedy to come in and rejuvinate the party, bobbys daughter kathleen perhaps.
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DuckFan4ever Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. New Democratic Leadership is on the way....
A new Senate Minority leader is the first, and others will emerge. There is definitely room for people to step to the front and center.
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Senator Reid is far from leadership material
The man is too soft spoken. He along with Pelosi are exactly what we don't need to in way of leadership.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Pelosi needs to go
we can do better than have a limousine liberal from San Francisco who wears expensive jewelry while talking about helping poor people.

Don't know much about Reid but he deserves a chance before getting bashed.
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. If you don't know much about him
Then why are you saying he is being bashed? Reid has a great heart and is a good man to have on our side but he is no leader.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. No! A million times No! Reid is a MORMON first and foremost.
He has to keep one eye on this idiot luddite base here - he would be another Daschle.

We need a FIGHTER from a SAFE Democratic locale.

I live in Vegas. I should kmow.

Reid ALWAYS waffles and appeases.

ALWAYS doesn't answer or changes the subject to his childhood growing up in Searchlite bullshit.

I'fe attended many "meetings" with him. He will never actively support any causes that put him "out there".

He ALWAYS has his finger in the air to see which way the wind blows.

He is NOT the right one for the primary leadership position.
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. Actually, there are signs of life that Dems and the
grassroots are not willing to go along to get along. The web and information now flows around the establishment and they are not in charge!

The election 'conspiracy theories' and voting irregularities came from the people. Money is flowing into coffers of independent movements not affiliated with the corporate Democratic Party.

Dean is causing a bit of a stir by his name being mentioned for the Chairmanship of the DNC. Al From is railing that the party can't be hijacked.

Protestors in the hundreds of thousands on August 31, 2004 in NYC shocked the leadership of BOTH parties.

The upcoming Congress will not have as many of the Dem * apologists as before.

All in all, the Democratic party establishment will change or be changed - the power shifted and nobody can put that genie back in the bottle.
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I have seen the subtle things you spoke of
and although it's a start it's are far from an active movement to cast out the current jugheads.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
22. From your lips to
the ears of the Great Spirit....
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Need some explanation
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 03:18 PM by Cheswick2.0
Why did you put "documentary" in quotes and exactly what is it you think is wrong with Al Gore?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Copperred Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
27. WARREN BUFFETT

Hear hear to that............

These people are nothing but slaves to their own upbringings, established families, and religiously skewed interests.....

The one name that keeps coming back to me....who I think should be petitioned to get HEAVILY involved because he did not come from the East and he is true to his beliefs...is... WARREN BUFFETT

Warren Buffett as head of the DNC..... Warren cannot stand people who come from privilage and thinks its important that they did...... He will send them to the dust bin where they belong....and squeeze the party like never before....

May sound far fetched....but u have no idea how practical a man he is, and how much he truly embodies basic American values....
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AusTexDem Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
29. i remember seeing carville on some show right after the 2000
selection he was talking some crap like. " Oh,we got some surprises for the Republicans down in Florida, We got some things going on down there. just you wait and see. This isn't over yet."
Yeah right James you guys did a great job. you even had 4 years to make sure it didn't happen again. all talk no action.
This is what happens when you get rich and lazy.
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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. white, suburban liberalism has failed
Many of us on the left see much of the Dem program as fascism light - endless restriction and conformity with "nice" corporations pulling the strings, and lots of laws for our own good, and don't see the party supporting the individualist, the traditionalist, the workers, the free thinkers. Many on the right see the same problem with the Republican party. Both parties have betrayed the poor and the minorities. Both parties have sold out the small independent business person.

So that leaves us with both parties seriously fractured, and that is being disguised by this bitter partisan contest.

We can't hope to make everyone in the same mold - college degrees, corporate job, suburban house, consumer-oriented and security minded.

Republicans embrace all sorts of "losers" - witness the President! - and while the liberals mock and ridicule that, there is an appeal there that has stripped away almost all of the working class support for the Democratic party. The dumber Bush looks, the more people relate to him and love him. The more that liberals ridicule Bush, the more the people hate liberals.

This isn't because the people are stupid, it is because liberals are so out of touch with reality, and because liberals come across as such insufferably arrogant know it alls. I am not saying that we are that way, rather that we come across that way. The Republicans have been very effective at exploiting that for their own benefit, not because they have a different "philosophy" than we do, but because it is the path to power.

We have built up an enormous edifice of verbiage that is taken the place of true liberalism. It is carefully worked out in elaborate detail and is correct on all points. The problem is that, as many have described, none of it means squat to the average person.

There is something about liberalism today that just is not straight-shooting down to earth plain talking common sense, and the right wingers are destroying us on this. They have co-opted all of the populist sentiment in the country. I think that is what attracted all of us to Dean, Kucinich and Clark - each of them was able to open their mouths and speak plain honest truth as they saw it without handlers or a script. We can argue over which of them had the better truth, or was the better candidate but that doesn't go anywhere and it just causes more divide and conquer to happen. There is something they have in common - they aren't all boxed in by "on the other hands" and all of the rest of the mealy-mouth double talking liberal idiocy. They were able to connect with the populist strain in the American public.

I see a lot of the current rural and blue collar support the Republicans now get, as well as the progressives, banding together in the near future in a populist movement. I see most of the suburban Dems, and many of the professional moderate Republicans banding together into a moderate Republican party. That would better reflect the divisions in the country right now.

Professional people in the suburbs - Dems and Republicans - have no idea as to how the sytem oppresses people outside of their world, because it so much supports their world. This has led to a remarkable callousness on the part of suburban liberals to the victims of this new consumer society. Workers at Wal Mart? They damned well better be polite to me when I stop in to shop, and if they weren't lazy or stupid they could go to school and be just like me so they have nothing to complain about.

Do you know what suburban liberals say to me if I try to criticize, say, AOL? "They must be doing something right, look how successful they are." That is not liberalism anymore. It is stock-holding, corporate job holding, real-estate investing, aristocratic moderate Republicanism. Nothing wrong with that! They want to protect what they have, and psychologically they want to feel that they "earned" everything they have, despite the evidence that 99% of the people in the world - more and more of whom are slaving away to support the suburban life style - will never have any opportunity to attain what the suburbanites have.

The problem comes when suburban liberals claim to represent the working class - they cannot, because their needs and goals are in opposition to the working class. Suburban liberals claim to represent environmentalism - they cannot, because their lifestyle is the most wasteful on the planet. They claim to represent diversity and tolerance - they cannot, because their wealth is predicated on real estate which is predicated on racism and white flight. They claim to represent civil liberties - they cannot, because the protection of suburban property is the number one driver for increased police state regulations. Likewise, one cannot really be against the oil wars and live in the suburbs. Likewise, suburban culture is consumer culture, and creators and builders and artists and entrepreneuers will never fit in or be fairly treated. Suburbs require conformity, security and intense organization. All of these work against creativity, small business and risk taking.

Inevitably, so long as the Democratic party is dominated by suburban liberals, it will be in opposition to the needs of the rest of the population. This is where all of the blue collar strength in the Republican party comes from - resentful victims of suburbanization. What is good for the suburbs will always be bad for the cities, the small towns and the third world. It will always be bad for the environment. It will always be bad for agriculture and the arts, the inventor and the entrepreneur. It will always be bad for public transportation, and it will always be bad for minorities.

Liberalism has not failed, it has been hijacked. White suburban liberalism has failed. Replace "white suburban" with "populist" and we get 70% support from the population for liberal and progressive politics. Continue to support the interests and cater to the prejudices of white, educated, suburban liberals and we continue to lose support from the people.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
31. New leadership would be the first step in the right direction
Generals who lose major battles are fired in favor of new generals to take a new approach.

Fire the lot of them, they lost this battle and need to be kept from losing more.
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Blue Dog Dem Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. agreed - n/t
ffj
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