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Do right-wing Republicans believe in democracy?

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zanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:03 AM
Original message
Do right-wing Republicans believe in democracy?
This isn't a sarcastic, smartass question. I've really started to wonder about this. They use the word "democracy" all the time, but do they mean democracy for everyone or just for them? They seem to be too eager to change the constitution (state and national) to secure "freedom" for themselves. George Bush is president of half the country and the other half (us) is ignored completely.
I guess my question is this; Would right-wingers accept another form of government if it suited their purpose, or would they support democracy, even under Pres. Hillary Clinton?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. They are followers
and if their leaders tell them that is what they stand for, in their minds they do (no matter how undemocratic they are).
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eleonora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. They don't. They think most people are stupid and need
a leader to keep them straight. Yup, heard it right out of a repug's mouth.
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. If they did ...
they could neither be Republican OR right wing.

The two are synonymous with fascism. This wasn't always the case, but by aligning itself with militant Christian clerics, the Republican party has devolved into a fundamentalist organization than can brook no dissent or tolerate any independent thought or minority viewpoint. It has become a monster that threatens the survival of democracy as conceived by our Enlightenment forefathers. They are, quite simply, the greatest evil ever known and proof - as if proof were needed - that fascism does not always come wearing funny moustaches.
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checks-n-balances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. Obviously, their leaders currently in the White House DO NOT.
Same goes for those in Congress who have short-circuited the democratic process (biggest example: Medicare).

The democratic process thrives on fairness and an educated electorate. I don't see those two things being "valued" by the majority of today's GOP leadership.
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Dez Donating Member (826 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. Right wingers hate the Clintons
And I don't think they would accept Hillary as their president. I know dome right wingers who watch Fox, and they truly believe everything that's said on that show.. pretty amazing! I think these people can't really think for themselves, and they believe everything shrub says.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. they do not, but they DO believe in the LABEL "democracy"
they simply refuse to believe that what they believe in is called "fascism".
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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. They Believe "Democracy" Is A Handy Way To Control The Masses
It's a put-on.
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DeepGreen Donating Member (572 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. We are less
In the phrase of Abraham Lincoln, democracy is a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people."

Maybe the question is,, who do the right-wingers believe the people are? From what I have read, we liberals/progressives are less than people. What a sad world !!

:grr:
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. Hi DeepGreen!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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DeepGreen Donating Member (572 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Hi there newyawker99
Glad to be here !

:bounce:
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Nimrod Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
9. People LIKE to be told what to think
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 09:27 AM by Nimrod
Religion. Politics. Corporate structure. Talk shows.

I believe the average Homo Sapien is terrified of forming his own opinion. We are unsure, panicky creatures with fragile perceptions of self-worth, short attention spans, and as a species we experience great difficulty in abstract thinking. We also have a profound tribal instinct, but no tribes in the literal sense.

Hence, when someone tells us what to think, we leap at the opportunity. When we're simply regurgitating what we've been told, we are cleared of ALL responsibility. We also no longer have to question ourselves or our motives. Isn't the first thing any religion/party/business/talk show host says is "I'm right, YOU'RE right if you believe me, and together we are morally and intellectually superior to all others and can therefore freely and without guilt dismiss any opposing message as pure ignorance without examining it."

This is a powerful message. It brings order to our inner chaos and places our fragile egos safely above the storm that is life. There is a great sense of safety in accepting what you are told without question.

When you're a small child you believe anything your parents tell you. You believe Santa Claus is Comin' to Town. You believe Peter Rabbit is hopping down the bunny trail. You believe in the Tooth Fairy, the Great Pumpkin, and that babies come from storks. This puts your world in order and acknowledges that someone else is responsible for you. As adults, we simply seek other Santa Clauses to believe in.

Conformity of thought also satisfies our neglected tribal instinct. Even here at DU we've formed our own tribe. A group of mostly like-minded individuals operating under the concept of protecting each other while we oppose our enemies. Existence is lonely, and we are terribly social animals. The tribe is precious.

I firmly believe that the vast majority of people embrace whatever comes along first. Most (no, not all) political party members were born there. Most (no, not all) members of organized religion were introduced to it as children. I think that you will find most anti-abortionists come from parents or religions who are horrendously opposed to it all. Likewise for environmentalists, feminists, white supremacists, animal rights activists, or any other ideological group - you will find some event early in life that defines their current opinions.

And once opinions are formed, they are almost impossible to change - we as a species do not LIKE to be wrong. Don't confuse us with facts, we have THE TRUTH.

DISCLAIMER: I do not pretend to be a psychology major or a scholar of the human condition. I simply call 'em as I see 'em.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Well put - says this Master's of Psychology.
n/t
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Nimrod Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. High praise. Thanks!
:)
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zanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Good point, Nimrod.
Republicans love to talk about how George Bush is a "strong leader". He is their Santa Claus.
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PoiBoy Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. Actions speak louder than words...
...don't ya think? :hi:
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BJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. The use the word "democracy" cynically.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 09:47 AM by BJ
First, the business school ethos of the Republican Party is hierarchical. As much as the MBAs like to say they follow a democratic model it ain't from my experience. The shit always flows down hill.

Secondly, the "Christian Reconstructionist" wing, the moral value voters, is definitely hierarchical as democracy is antithetical to the anticipated "Kingdom of God."
(Now, Christian DUers, before you start flaming me for being anti-Christian I want you to stop, take a deep breath and notice that I've been very careful not to condemn all Christendom. All "Christian Reconstructionists" are Christian but not all Christians are "Christian Reconstructionists." Jerry Falwell is a "Christian Reconstructionist", William Sloan Coffin was not. Nor could I say that the Methodist minister of my youth, Pastor Leonard Tinker who greatly influenced my political thought, was anything but a liberal Christian.)

Here are some links I've found on Google.com on Christian Reconstructionism:
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/5/21/13392/6893

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/r10.html

http://www.serve.com/thibodep/cr/whatis.htm
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Nimrod Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Beware the Republican Assemblies
They're popping up all over the place (actually, they've been around for a long time, they've just gotten more visible since 1990 or so).

Republican Assemblies are Christian Reconstructionists operating under the Republican tent, and they make VERY little pretense about this. Surprise surprise, they vehemently endorsed * - the first presidential candidate to get that endorsement I believe.
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. No
It is the great irony of their political position that they are
trying to establish Christian ends by Fascist means.

It is doomed to fail, but most likely not without a fight on the
part of those of us who have no intention of going back to the
Dark Ages.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. no. they believe in a hobbesian rule of the jungle where the strong reign
and of course they think that they will be the strong, always.
for them, democracy just gets in the way of their goals
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LiberalPersona Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. No
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 10:39 AM by LiberalPersona
We are not even a democracy, we're a republic.
Still, when they think of our government, they think of it as the right of the majority to oppress the minority, which is what a democracy is.

The problem here is that the media has brainwashed so many people into believing that we are a democracy when we aren't, so they think it's ok.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. A Republican told me the same thing
He said, "The US isn't really a democracy. It wasn't set up that way. It's a republic." That made more sense than anything any Republican ever said before or since. The idea is that we are "somewhat" self-governing, but ultimately the power lies in our institutions.

I call bullshit.

The reason we elect representatives is for them to follow the will of the people - our will. They serve at our pleasure, not the other way around. Any who fail to do what we elect them to do should go out on their asses.

Unfortunately for all of us, the neocons and theofascists now control the electoral process. Democracy AND the republic are as good as dead until we can wrest control of it from them.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. Nope.
Not at all. See in a true democracy all kinds of people they really abhor get to vote. And get their votes counted. We don't have much of a democracy anymore.

Also, they aren't so hot on freedom of speech.

I remember people used to say "I may not agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to my death your right to say it."

Remember that? People of both parties used to say that, LONG ago.

Now, I never hear it said. Least of all by repukes. They're too busy talking about beating liberals with baseball bats and whining "don't insult us!"

Crybabies, the lot of 'em. They talk a big talk but if you get up in their faces, they cry and run home.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
17. absoultely not
they favor facism - corporate rule, no voice for the minority, budget-busting military, and complete media hegemony.
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
20. Not really. The Free Market is higher than democracy
in their priorities. That's why they love General Pinochet of Chile, who overthrew Allende's democratic socialist goverment in 1973. Despite the fact Pinochet's regime tortured, raped and killed tens of thousands of left-wing opponents the Republicans love him - for he implemented their 'free market' that they idolize. If republicans can achieve their free market goals by democracy then they'll try it that way; if democracy doesn't work for them then they'll try other means to get into power - fraud, intimidation, bribery. They seem to be prepared to do what it takes.
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
22. At least some of them don't.
I'd have to survey them AND carefully analyze their discussions and activism to know.

Basically, from what I can tell, some of them are genuine fascists who want an authoritarian one-party state, period.

Some of them are plutocrats, enamored of a country in which the haves are carefully maintained in their position of power and bear no consequences for their actions.

Some of them are just self-absorbed or fearful, whining about their taxes or fretting that Hillary Clinton is coming to make socialists of us all. I know a few of those people personally.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. No-- they're anti-Democracy, anti-Security, anti-American, anti-
Christian

It is not a smart-ass remark at all-- it is clearly apparent and based upon numerous events/facts/policies that show them to be anti-(things mentioned) across the board.

My questions to those who support the regime are:

What do you have against Christianity? and God?
What do you have against America?
What do you have against security?
What do you have against your children?
What do you have against Democracy?

What do you have against yourself?
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. absolutely not
In election after election, they work extremely hard at suppressing voter turnout and at denying what they perceive to be the underclasses the right to vote. That alone answers your question.

If you add in the class warfare they have waged in Murka since WWII, if not before, their agenda becomes clear. They want an imperial "President" and to have the corporate and financial elite elevated to the status of nobility.

Some of them are actually honest about this.
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oscar-something Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
28. from their POV, yes
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
29. No they don't.
They don't believe in Christianity.

They don't believe in democracy.

They don't believe in America.

They believe whatever the screaming ninnies in fundie churches tell them.

And they believe they are entitled to hate anyone who disagrees with them.
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. they talk the talk...don't walk the walk n/t
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