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To Fraud doubters - Do you honestly believe they wouldn't cheat?

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AVID Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:24 PM
Original message
To Fraud doubters - Do you honestly believe they wouldn't cheat?
One, two, or even three republicans alone in a room with absentee ballots, provisional ballots, and democratic registrations?

A voter denied, a ballot in the trash, a touch screen glitch to them is an act of National heroism!

We are traitors to them!!! Unworthy of votes, rights, even life!!

I knew they would cheat, believe that they cheated, and don't doubt that they have one iota of guilt in their conscience.

They are national HEROS, and christian soldiers.

If you get a chance, read Vincent Bugliosi's own introduction to "Betrayal of America".
Hell, read the whole book - they are crooks.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/156025355X/ref=sib_dp_p...

THEY STOLE THE VOTES WHEN AND WHERE THEY NEEDED THEM THE MOST.
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camby Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. 'fraid you're right
I worked hard for this election, but deep down there was a little voice inside me that kept saying, "It doesn't really matter, the fix is in." Remember that interview last spring? Bush said, "I'm not going to lose." My blood ran cold when I heard that, but still I allowed myself to hope. Well, guess what - the little voice was right. Democracy in America is dead.
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Do I think some Republicans would cheat? Hell yes!
Do I think some Democrats would cheat? Hell yes! (Hey, I grew up in Massachusetts and never met a Republican until I moved away -- and some of those guys were as corrupt as they come).
Do I think some people will cheat at anything to win? Hell yes. That's how some people are.
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nancyharris Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Do you honestly think
some Democrats wouldn't also cheat? Strange how neither party seems to want a close inspection of this vote.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Who is in charge of the machines? Who is making the machines?
Edited on Sat Nov-13-04 11:55 PM by lizzy
That should give you the clue.
:eyes:
It's not just a paper ballot the republicans are sitting with.
It's a computer that can switch the election in seconds. When CEO of Diebold said he is committed to delivering OH's electoral votes to Bush, what do you think he meant?
Think about it.
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nancyharris Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Do you have a link for this?
"When CEO of Diebold said he is committed to delivering OH's electoral votes to Bush,"
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. A link? One link? How about 45?
http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8...

I'm sure you can find more, that is if you really want to.
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camby Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. If you look at all the voting anomalies in this election -
they all went for Bush. Not Republicans in general, just Bush. This isn't about Repub vs Democrat, or who is more honest. This is about a specific election for a specific candidate - an election that was rigged.
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nancyharris Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Not all of the errors went for Bush
From yesterday's Orlando Sentinal

"Sometimes the problem is that votes were miscounted. That's what happened, officials say, with precinct-by-precinct results posted on the Orange County elections office Web site showing that Democrat John Kerry beat Republican President Bush by 9,227 votes in Orange.

That was off by 8,400 votes. Officials working for Bill Cowles, the Orange elections supervisor, said the correct totals, available elsewhere on the site, showed that Kerry bested Bush in the county by only 827 votes."
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AVID Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. only the ones that mattered
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. link please...
I want the entire context.
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. What are you talking about?
"Half-a-dozen Democratic congressmen have asked the Government Accountability Office to investigate reports of voting irregularities in the Nov. 2 election, many of them involving electronic touch-screen voting machines."


http://gcn.com/vol1_no1/daily-updates/27882-1.html
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AVID Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. remove head from sand
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Believing that they would cheat
and proving that they did are very distinct issues.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Well, sure.
Maybe that's why they didn't want a paper trail to go with their e-voting machines.
:eyes:
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kerry2win Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. that was roves November suprise didn't need oct. one
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Annette Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. It was ok though, because they did it in the name of Jesus n/t
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Nimrod Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
17. I think they've been cheating for decades
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 06:57 AM by Nimrod
The lowest common denominator has just plummeted so far down now that they don't feel the need to be THAT sneaky about it anymore. * could have ripped up ballots on national TV during prime time, and as long as he was praising GAWD and cursing faggots while he did it there would have been no problem. They'd still have power, they'd still have their mindless minions, and WE'D still be the conspiracy theorists.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
18. How in the world anyone could doubt
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 07:55 AM by Window
whether or not those disgusting slobs cheated is beyond me.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
19. I think both parites would cheat
I also think there was probably cheating on both sides this election.

I further think there was not widespread cheating, nor was there a widespread conspiracy to steal the election.

And finally, I think we got our asses handed to us and the sooner we come to grips with that, the better the party will be.
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camby Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Sorry, Walt, you have your head in the sand
This is not a hypothetical question of whether or not either party would cheat under the right circumstances. This is a question of whether or not this election for the presidency was stolen. If we do not follow up every lead, and investigate potential fraud, and make sure that votes are counted correctly, then we might as well pack up our bags and go home, because it doesn't matter how much we "re-tool" our message -- we will never win another major election. If we cannot trust the voting mechanism in this country, then DEMOCRACY IS DEAD. This isn't about being sore losers as much as it is about protecting the sanctitiy of our votes. PERIOD.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. It is my considered opinion that this election was not stolen
The Kerry campaign was out thought, out witted, and out lasted.

That is my sincere opinion in the matter, but by all means keep going. The sooner it is demonstrated that this election was not stolen, the better off the world will be.
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. "The sooner it is demonstrated that this election was not stolen"...
Exactly the reason we need to investigate.
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AVID Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. What did you tell the folks who told you . .
to move on when you spent three weeks chasing a war medal story that turned out to be debunked?

We'll work for the truth until we'r debunked - which hasn't happened yet.

Thanks for your input walt
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. I said I had to follow it all the way to the end
and I did.

Go for it, but don't be too surprised when you find out nobody stole anything.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
20. i love how we go to both do it, ah so easy to dismiss then,
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 08:26 AM by seabeyond
we arent talking both parties. we aren't talking dem theft. the only time we saw a registration abuse was the man and 200 votes for crack and everyone yelled about it

to say both would cheat, dont you think crooked on both sides, screw that. we are talking repugs. we are talking history in 2000 and 2002 of them stealing votes. we are tlaking about them stealing vote in 2004. to say both will do dismisses what the repugs have done. this was absolutely a ploy by rove.

we are going to lie cheat or steal, taint dems with it first, regardless how frivlous or untrue, just so when it comes out we have done it, everyone will go to both sides do it, then it makes their actions acceptable

why oh why do we play this game, continually and blinded
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
21. It is just SO easy to do it, folks. They HAD to.
Do I think Dems would do it? Maybe--but the question is who has access to these things.

To me, it's so obvious there's cheating occurring, and I wonder how long it's been going on.
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Very obvious.
There is just too much circumstantial evidence to ignore. All we need is one incident of irrefutable proof and their house of cards will collapse around them.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
24. Is this a real question? No, I don't believe they wouldn't cheat.
However, suspicion does not equal proof, and you have to address this ethical skepticism as it arises.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
25. I believe they lie every time their lips move
I believe they cheat every time they can get away with it

I believe they are utterly immoral and corrupt, from the top down and the bottom up

I believe 2000 was a coup and the end of "Democracy" in Murka until something drastic changes things

I believe the can't NOT cheat.
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American Tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
26. It's not a matter of what we believe, or even what we know
it's what we can prove.

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Gyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. No way. But, that's just a character trait for dishonesty and
it doesn't prove fraud. What it does do is to call into question anything they have to say about (in this case) the integrity of the electoral system.

Gyre
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