If this were 1930's Germany, would you sell out the Jews?

[DrWeird]

"Hey, the nazis won this year. Maybe the democrats will get more votes if we blame the Jews."

[Bluebear]

1. Oh, let's take a POLL!

[TimeToGo]

2. Yea, good point

Perhaps a bit severe, but a good reminder of where we should be in our thinking.

[AlCzervik]

3. no, it's not too severe judging but what i've

seen here today.

[TimeToGo]

19. I meant I don't think we are Nazi Germany

at least yet!

[robbedvoter]

4. This IS the 1930 Germany, only with bigger bombs

[Robert Oak]

5. exceptional post

People constantly believe that the nazi's rise to power, that
extreme fundamentalism and all of it could not happen here.

Blame the Germans for selling out the jews.

Yet, in 24 hours we have people saying let's overturn Roe V Wade
and let's get rid of any gay rights platform.

[Bluebear]

6. First they came for the gays........

[Maiden England]

7. Thank you, its about time someone said this.

I'm a jew, and tell you flat out, this is how it started in Germany. I will not enable anyone to go down that path, no way. They may not be coming for my kind, yet, but I will stand up for anyone they try to deny civil rights to.
I will not give an inch to the repukes, they will just try to take a mile.
We must remember the lessons learnt from the rise of fascism in Europe in the 1930s. I mean, what if Hitler, had, say, Nookular weapons.
:shrug:

[KharmaTrain]

33. When You're A Minority You're A Minority

My grandparents lived through the Progroms of Eastern Europe pre WWI (Russian cossacks would destroy villages, rape women, kill & plunder)...this is what finally led my grandparents to flee to this country. I'm not seeing that yet.

I'm one who thinks the GOOP played on GLBT over-reactions which energized their base and now will be sitting back and laughing as the everyone-for-himself/herself attitude reigns supreme here.

Yes, I have problems with some Gay & Lesbians who are so singularly focused on their issue and their sexuality as to become inclusionary and highly judgemental. There are a good number here on DU. Anything that smacks of questioning the gay lifestyle is considered an instant homophobe.

If there's any minority group that stands to be all alone thanks to this election it's Arab Americans, as the majority all but voted in favor of continuing a war against their religion.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ulysses]

9. nice stereotype

but, to my knowledge, Dr Weird isn't gay.

[DrWeird]

10. I myself am straight.

Do the words "Never Again" have any meaning for you?

[bread_and_roses]

17. They do for me, DrW, and I thank you for this post

I am not a Jew, I am not a Lesbian, I am a straight white married woman.

Those who will not learn from history...

First, they came for....

[The Jacobin]

11. This is just stupid

No one is talking of rounding up and killing gays. Not Bush, not Ashcroft, not Rove. Nobody.

Godwin's law invoked.

[DrWeird]

13. Nobody was talking about gas chambers in 1933.

The principle's the same.

The analogy is valid whether you want to admit it or not.

This isn't Godwin's law, this isn't some chat about anti-smoking laws. This is about a serious turn towards fascism and widespread discrimination against minorities.

[mondo joe]

14. You should learn some history.

The Jewish oppression in Germany didn't BEGIN with rounding up or killing anyone.

[bread_and_roses]

20. And your point would be?

That we should wait till people are actually being rounded up and killed before we try to protect their rights? Brilliant.

[mondo joe]

25. Um, where did you get that from MY post?

I'm the one agreeing that the analogy to Germany is a valid one.

[bread_and_roses]

32. I apologize - I misread

and misinterpreted. I have to plead exhaustion and depression, I have really not functioned all that well since Tuesday. Sorry

[mondo joe]

37. It's okay, I appreciate your acknowledgement.

Thanks.

[Bluebear]

15. Christian Reconstructionists certainly are

Some Leviticus based religions indeed are talking about just that.

[TeacherCreature]

16. The word I heard HERE tonight was "muzzle" them.

A interesting word choice, with a bit of that John Ashcroft-Abu Graib feeling to it, if I may say so.

STAMP OUT BIGOTRY ON DU.

[pk_du]

18. Fuck Godwins Law

The "evangelical christians" ( how dare they use that second word btw) are way closer to Germany's National Socialism than you are prepared to admit.

http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/shepard_monument.html

And please look at this site....these arent Gay-baiting Freepers..these are so-called "God-fearing Christians"

[The Jacobin]

23. I don't have too

I have read it before.

There are like 30 people that attend that church. BFD. You can find 30 people in America that will believe ANYTHING. That's not a movement or a threat.

[DrWeird]

26. There's around 168 million homophobes in the United States.

That's a threat to everyone.

[pk_du]

28. There are 30 MILLION that believe the Bible (inc. Leviticus etc.)

is the absolute and undeniable word of God.

[pk_du]

24. Oh - and by the way

the literal interpretation of the Bible (old testament) these guys adhere to calls for "stoning" of sinners.

[TeacherCreature]

12. I agree. This IS 1930s Germany.

I am ashamed and nauseated by what we have seen here tonight.

[Politicub]

31. To use a gay reference - from the musical Cabaret

About Germany in the 1930's before the nightmare began:

"There was a cabaret and there was a master of ceremonies and there was a city called Berlin in a country called Germany. It was the end of the world...and we were fast asleep...."

We musn't fall asleep, and I fear that the siren song of political expediency will be a lullaby to too many otherwise good Americans.

[Enraged_Ape]

45. I have a poll about this on another thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2598569&mesg_id=2598569

Most people forget that the ghettoes, death camps, etc., didn't start for many years after the rise of Nazis. If you actually look at the 1930s German timeline, it's uncanny the parallels so far. We are on a solid track.

[Bread and Circus]

21. Probably, or else I'd probably get shot and most here would do the same...

that's why all that bad shit happened.

[Baja Margie]

22. The Jews

are going to get sold out anyway, by Bush.

[liberalhistorian]

27. Boy, truer words have yet to be spoken!

It's been with complete disbelief that I've witnessed the "to hell with gays, let's get rid of the gays, they're only dragging us down, screw the gays" bullshit and on DU, no less. Although I suppose after Tuesday, NOTHING should surprise me anymore.

It ain't the gays, people, it's the hateful wingnut bigots who threw the gays to the hateful wingnut fundies like red meat, who knew exactly what they were doing when they put all of the "gay marriage" issues on the ballot, and who knew that people would be blind to such shamefully, bigoted manipulations and would blame Dems and not God's Own Party.

Yes, how dare gays actually ask for and expect the same basic human rights accorded to the rest of society, and how dare they actually expect to be treated like human beings. I mean, who do they think they are, human beings?

And as someone who's studied WWII Germany and the Holocaust at length, I gotta say that this is exactly how things like that start, with the dehumanizing and scapegoating of an entire group for all the "ills" of society, something that's happened endlessly throughout the history of civilization; Christ, you'd think we'd have learned by now! And I also gotta say that, with this election, we are fast beginning to resemble mid-1930's Germany. With the vote, we had the chance to turn back from the brink and restore some sanity. But I fear that chance is nearly gone. Never in a hundred million years did I ever think it would happen here, ever. But I will never again trust the "wisdom" of Americans, ever.

We have a huge responsiblity here. We have the responsiblity of closing ranks on our oppressed and threatened groups and protecting them as best we can. Together, we can do it. But certainly not if we're blaming, scapegoating and dehumanizing them.

[madfloridian]

29. This board would now, I believe.

I swear they would to win the next election. Or anyone else.

[Bluebear]

30. Whatever happened to rule 2?

[Sterling]

34. I agree if we just shed the blacks, the gays and the poor

then we may have a fighting chance with Hillary in 08!!!!!

[Flammable Materials]

35. Ask John, not me.

I was all but ready to take up arms.

[theriverburns]

36. Would we still lose Florida?

nm

[texas is the reason]

38. to DEFEAT HITLER, and thus protect the jews, yes, a little bit.....

sometimes you have to give an inch to get a yard. no one is talking about abandoning gay rights, but maybe it is time to not push the issue for a bit. our loss of this election is really attributable to three things (or the mainstream preception of these things)-gay mairrage, gun control, and partial-birth abortions. is it too much to ask that we chill out a bit on these issues, just for now, so that we can, oh i don't know.... WIN A FUCKING SEAT SOMEWHERE!!!! a democrat (who is actually in power!) who does not address every single gay rights issue is still much better than a republican who persecutes them, or a perfectly ideal democrat, who can never get elected.

[MadHound]

47. A couple of points friend

The issues of equality for gays, and the continued legality of abortion are important because there are real live people behind these issues. We do not want or need second class citizens in this country, be they gay or female. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, these two issues are important because they are key issues in the seperation of church and state in this country. That barrier that was so wisely set up by our forefathers is being eroded at an ever quickening rate, and if we concede the issue of equality for gays, and legal, safe abortions, we will open a huge hole, one that could possibly never be plugged.

If we concede on these issues, we might, I say MIGHT, pick up a few more votes in the short term. But we will be opening the door wide for theocratic fascism in this country. Today it will be gay discrimination and subjucation of women. Tommorrow it will be the stoning of adulterers and those who eat pork. Don't believe me, then go out and do your own research. Check out the new Senator from OK, Coburn, or the re-elected Senator Bunning from KY. These folks want to establish fundy Christian rule as the law of the land. Is that what you want?

We must take a stand somewhere against hatred, intolerance and bigotry. For me, now is the time, and right here is the place. If you wish to concede an entire group of people to second class status, fine, go run and hide. I never will. After all, my wife is female, some of my friends and family are gay. And my country's seperation of church and state are part of what makes it great. I will never, ever concede this country to theocratic facism.

[theboss]

39. I still hope to sell my screenplay

So I'm never turning on the Jews.

[Carni]

40. If they had voted for bush and lived in a red state I might have

But I am not sure what that has to do with anything --are you saying the south and other rural buffoons out west should not be blamed for empowering the bush nazi?

I think they are to blame and should enjoy their spoils (the bush voters I mean)

I am sorry but I blame the bush voters (regardless of what religion they prescribe to) in a huge way--they wanted it they got it and I am not into their whacked out "rapture" scenario.

On edit: I didn't know this analogy was about gays -- if they had gone out in droves for bush I would blame them as well but abviously that isn't the case...I am too dense for nuance tonight, I guess!

[DrWeird]

41. Bump

because apparently this issue is still being discussed.

[omnithrope]

42. But ... who are this years "jews"?

nt

[bleedingheart]

43. Women and Gays...

The right wing wants their women barefoot, pregnant and submissive and they want those gay folks in the beauty parlors where they belong teasing their mistresses hair and doing pedicures... (sarcasm)

[Tsiyu]

44. There are some of us who will not

sacrifice any of you. If you are gay, if you are Wiccan, if you are Arab, if you are an athiest I have your back.

I don't understand the GOP liters around here, but screw em. let's get rid of them now before they turn us all in.

On a related note: I mentioned to the younger set this morning that they might want to read up on some successful resistance movements. Just out of curiosity of course. But pay cash for the books. They watch what you check out of the libraries.....

[Malva Zebrina]

46. We are nazi Germany now

and too bad if some people get insulted by that. This is OUR country and it is being destroyed by people who hate and believe in a virtual fuhrer. There are indications that some groups will be targeted, villified eventually be marginalilzed and perhaps even physically harmed.

The people driven by religious hatred of a certain group or groups, have voted in a smirking, belligerant fascist and they voted him in out of fear, and he will NOT stop now. He is a reincarnation of a Hitler--probably the most evil man to ever exist in our modern times .