I blame Zogby for Kerry's loss.

[Topper_Halo]

Zogby announced on The Daily Show that Kerry would win. This was done intentionally to put a portion of Kerry voters at ease, and curb their eagerness to get out and vote.

He picked a show that appeals to younger voters, as they would be the most likely to find an excuse not to vote...such as, Kerry is going to win anyway, so I don't need to vote.

When someone asks why Kerry lost, it is right to blame Zogby.

[high density]

1. The young people still came out.

Zogby is not to blame for this, though I'm sure he's quite embarrassed right now about his prediction.

[Topper_Halo]

2. Zogby is to blame

He must be paid by the Republican Party. His hands are stained guilt for this crime.

The young didn't come out anymore than they did in 2000. They were told they didn't need to....by Zogby.

[never_get_over_it]

8. For the love of God wake up

Zogby wasn't wrong - they stole the freaking votes - you are buying their shit - just like they said the exit polls were wrong in 2000 and got rid of VNS because of it - the exit polls were right the count was wrong - don't buy into this shit Take a look at Zogby's predictions if I'm remembering he was exactly right except for FL and OH - they want you to think he was wrong - he was not and he had the best numbers in 2000 too.

[Topper_Halo]

10. YOU WAKE UP!

I am not saying there were no votes stolen via evotes.

BUT WAKE THE FUCK UP! ZOGBY WENT ON THAT SHOW AND SAID KERRY WOULD WIN TO CURB THE KERRY VOTE!

He must be a Bush backer to have done this.

[never_get_over_it]

17. You have no proof he is a Bush backer

and no proof that he went on the show to cause the turnout to be low - look at his predictions in other states he was right - so those voters I guess went out and voted despite the fact that Zogby said Kerry would win the two states in question were FL and OH and the exit polls there suggest that the voters intended to vote for Kerry...your blaming Zogby doesn't hold up - his predictions were almost perfect - it is the voting machines and the counters - THEY WANT US TO BELIEVE IT WAS THE TURNOUT - don't you see that - then we look like crazy conspiracy tin foil hats if we question these freaking machines....I'm telling you the more we got out to vote the more they would have stolen - nothing we could have done except to control those voting machines would have mattered. The President of Diebold promised to deliver OH to Bush and he did don't blame Zogby - did you ever think that maybe the way they programmed these machines to steal the votes took the turnout into account - NOTHING WE COULD DO WOULD MATTER -

[Topper_Halo]

22. Don't talk to me about the machines...

I never said anything about the machines!

Zogby is a Bush hack. Think about this...if you wanted to make sure you won the election, would you put all of your eggs into one basket (like machines) or would you use any and all options at once, to maximize your chanes of success? The machines were one part of the strategy, Zogby was another.

Zogby, you Bush loving muther fucka, I hate you! I blame you for this. You fucked us over good this time, but we won't fall for it again. Stewart will never have you on his show again, and your bias is now evident and has destroyed any reputation you ever had!

[bagnana]

24. what the hell are you talking about?

urrrgh. If he had said otherwise you would now be complaining that he depressed the youth vote by making them think it was hopeless.

[high density]

13. The "youth vote" came out in record numbers

Unfortunately this was offset by record turnout in all age groups and the proportion of the youth voters didn't increase.

[Topper_Halo]

15. Exactly.

The number of votes is naturally going to increase just because our population increases.

The % of voters is what mattered, and some of the youth were coaxed into staying home that day from Zogby's remark...think about it, if you knew Kerry was going to win, would you stand in the rain for 2+ hours to vote for him anyway, or stay in your dorm room eating nachos, drinking beer, and downloading porn.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blurp]

3. "Kerry will win" means Kerry loses

Zogby announced on The Daily Show that Kerry would win. This was done intentionally to put a portion of Kerry voters at ease, and curb their eagerness to get out and vote.

He picked a show that appeals to younger voters, as they would be the most likely to find an excuse not to vote...such as, Kerry is going to win anyway, so I don't need to vote.

When someone asks why Kerry lost, it is right to blame Zogby.

I thought the same thing.

And to me it seems much easier to manipulate poll results than ballots.

The beauty of this strategy is it isn't even illegal.

[Topper_Halo]

7. The question is...

how can crime not be a crime?

This was done intentionally. Jon Stewart is either a fool for letting him do this, or an accomplice. That show needs to screen its guests more carefully.

Zogby is the Nader of 2004

[sonicx]

27. Daily Show = basic cable and less than 2 mil viewers

just stop. you're hurting the country.

[blurp]

31. Is it a crime?

how can crime not be a crime?

This was done intentionally. Jon Stewart is either a fool for letting him do this, or an accomplice. That show needs to screen its guests more carefully.

Zogby is the Nader of 2004

Why is it a crime to report REAL poll results?

The trouble is that telling everyone that Kerry is ahead in the polls before the election (TRUE) means that some of those Kerry supporters are going to stay home thinking they've got things locked up.

[never_get_over_it]

4. Don't blame

Zogby, the GOTV effort, or anything other than the voting machines and the counters...this thing was stolen and if we had gotten more voters out they would have stolen more votes that is why we have to get rid of these freaking machines....

[tridim]

5. Zogby was right and the exit polls were right

BushCo stole the election.. Just like they did in 2002 and 2000. Do you really think they decided to play it honest in 2004?

[theoceansnerves]

6. clueless flame bait.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. either you are bying their manrra

or you don't want to think

This election was stolen

[Topper_Halo]

12. The election was stolen in more ways then one...

why must it be limited to the machines? Would you put all of your eggs in one basket?

Why not get some help...from a respected "expert"?

[bullimiami]

11. topper. wrong.

massive counting fraud. the evidence is coming in. zogby was right, in fact probably conservative as to how big kerry would win.

[Topper_Halo]

14. see post 12

.

[billbuckhead]

16. I think Zogby was trying to help us keep the election from being stolen

by telling America that the expected result was Kerry winning in a squeaker.

[Topper_Halo]

18. It would have made more sense to...

say Kerry will win in a landslide. If he states it will be a close election, then who could be suspicious about who wins.

If he really wanted Kerry to win, he should have stayed off of the show, or said "Bush will win by a little, unless Kerry really gets the vote out." But of course, this republican shill was rooting for Bush!

[Carolab]

19. WRONG!

Zogby HATES Bush. That was clear in the article in the New Yorker. I cannot imagine that Zogby would ruin his reputation in this way. I read that he has been scratching his head since 2000, saying that he was never off in exit polls vs. actual results before 2000.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Topper_Halo]

23. Kerry may not have lost the election...but he "lost" the election.

It's that simple.

[sonicx]

21. The Daily Show gets less than 2 million viewers a night. try again.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. Zogby's Just A Pollster He's Not The Magic Eight Ball Or Nostradamus

nt

[DFLforever]

28. Sure, why not blame Zogby?

He's as good a choice as any, if you don't want to give responsibility for the election outcome to Kerry or the Democratic Party.

[Redleg]

29. I doubt it.

Nice try though. You did stir up some shit. The margin that Zogby gave Kerry was not big enough for anyone to seriously think Kerry had the election wrapped up.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Zogby Actually Had Kerry Losing The Pop Vote (nt)

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWebHead]

33. this makes no sense

If Zogby said Kerry was going to lose, you'd blame him for depressing Democratic turnout, which is traditionally what happens when it appears the other party is going to win. I think Zogby's judgement was clouded by his own contempt for Bush, and he focused on factors that made it appear Kerry would win (voter intensity, Bush's low approval, higher turnout), while ignoring things that had Bush in the advantage (Jesusland, Kerry's low approval, scared voters, voter disenfranchisement in minority districts).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. I had my problems with Zogby but he desperately wanted to Kerry To Win...

This must have clouded his judgment and affected the assumptions in his model...

[charlie]

37. Then that makes 2 elections in a row

that his judgment was "clouded". He bollixed 2002 so bad that he issued a public mea culpa and retreated for a while to regroup and reexamine his methodologies.

Something's fishy, and it ain't Zogby.

[lessthanjake]

35. Zogby works for the DNC

He may have unintentionally hurt kerry but definetly not on purpose.

[AmerDem]

36. what's this guy starting a thread for, I thought 250 posts are now needed?

according to Skinner: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=announcement&id=123

[library_max]

38. This isn't right.

It's an established fact that optimism gets people to the polls and pessimism keeps them home.

And there's no way that Zogby's prediction could have inspired the Republicans to steal the election, which is what really happened. They had their ducks in a row a year ago or more.

[Logansquare]

39. Zogby does polls for everyone, including both parties

He stakes his reputation on his ability to predict outcomes accurately, so this isn't a game to him. I read a profile of him in the New Yorker, and he definitely comes from a liberal political background, but *will* work for anyone, even big tobacco. He wouldn't be very credible if he didn't do so.

[tritsofme]

40. Bullshit. Zogby's credibility is now shot.

He went out on the limb to predict a Kerry win in May, and now he has egg all over his face.

He based his final prediction on early exit polls, WTF is that? This guy is over.

[Trahurn]

41. May I Ask How You Know This To Be Factual

Or do you really know this to be a fact? Is this just your highly speculative opinion. Why do you make such an idiotic statement?

[LilKim]

42. Yeah, right

Zogby was willing to sacrifice his reputation, company, career as an accurate pollster by falling on his sword for Bush. Yep, makes perfect sense.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

43. Zogby is a Democrat and backed Dean....

n/t