I'm getting really tired of these "what we did wrong threads"

[jdj]

I feel like we don't need to be factionizing right now, if that's even a word. Bush is in a quagmire war, with the greatest loss of jobs (or 2nd maybe) of any president plus the worst deficit.

The exit polls did not match the results in the BBV states. If we did/are doing anything wrong it's not focusing on this, we busted our asses this year...

I keep remembering this poem by Martin Niemoller:

"In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

We need to stick together now more than ever, "put aside our differences" (hell, if even Eminem says this that should give us a clue how important it is)and put the BBV thing out there as a meme in every way we can. Because I believe there are patriotic conservatives out there who are APPALLED at what is going on in their party, and who will join with us, IF we still have a unified party and don't pick each other apart.

I'm also convinced there are alot of trolls over here starting these threads as a part gloating, part divide and conquer exercise.

We did a damn fine job this year getting out the vote. We had two damn fine candidates, and we were sucker-punched. Why make it worse?

[davepc]

1. Lets be so smug in our superiority that we don't analyze why we lost

then we can keep losing over and over and over and over and over again.

what a great plan.

[jdj]

2. Um, if you haven't noticed

there are tons of people here analyzing the statistical data of why the exit polls were so far off the results. Check the homepage.

As well, Greg Palast is asserting the as many as a million people were incorrectly removed from the rolls this year in Florida.
So answer me one question, if the repukes have the majority and the mandate they believe they do, why on earth would they even BOTHER to cheat in such an obvious fashion? I mean, they wouldn't have to.

Oh, and we WILL keep losing over and over again. Bank on it. We either deal with the specter of BBV and get our country back or we lose forever.

[davepc]

3. sorry, my tinfoil hat has a hole in it.

There is a real disconnect between the Democratic party and the people in rural areas of this country.

Vote stealing conspiracy theories don't fix that.

Howard Dean talked to the issue during the primaries and was shouted down. Turns out he was right.

[jdj]

6. look here, I'm one of those folks

southern working class from an evangelical background.

I know these people like the back of my hand ,and honey, they rape their kids at night.

that's the ugly truth.

you don't want anything but a "disconnect" with these folks.

if you believe for one second that we don't have a majority without them, if you really beleive that they are not a minority, then I pity you. Because I'll tell you, they all talk a good game, but they are not near as united as they appear to be. Bush is gonna have a bang-up time killing their kids for the next few years, and that will have an effect, trust me.

But it won't matter, mister holy non-tinfoil. Sorry for being 20 years ahead of the curve, there buddy, just put me on ignore.

[Sterling]

12. I agree it's not about pleasing bad people.

It's about creating a culture that discourages faith based bigotry and encourages realty based kindness.

[jdj]

15. I agree, but I have way more faith in Americans than that.

I don't think we lost.

I didn't think we would win.

Two gut instincts I had, the second one wouldn't go away no matter what I saw or read leading up to the election because this little voice in my head kept going "if they committed such egregious election fraud in 2000, and got away with it, then why would they not do it again" why wouldn't they? it's not like they have a conscience, I mean they have killed over 100,000 iraqis and 1000 american soldiers without lookin' back, so how could we honestly expect them to run an honest election?

but, I have faith that a significant # of Americans hate George Bush enough, that we would have won by a ten point margin like Zogby said without fraud.

[JusticeForAll]

4. Our project failed

Any project needs to have a post mortem so we can do better next time.

[mtnsnake]

5. Well when you can't beat the wost president in history what do you expect?

Here we have the most pathetic president that this country's ever seen getting elected to a second term, and you don't wanna talk about it? Yikes.

[jdj]

7. hmmmm

like I said.

[mopaul]

9. when you can't beat the wost president in history

no shit

[Pobeka]

8. A question for those who say "we didn't do enough" wrt GOTV.

Exactly how do you win when the other team marks the ballots?

Exactly how?

[RafterMan]

10. Then get out of the fucking Fighting and Acrimony forum

Jeebus.

Head over the the Hugs and Puppies forum to set aside your differences.

[jdj]

11. you're not the boss of me.

I'm just here to piss YOU off, anyway. How's that for acrimony?

[Sterling]

13. Now your getting it. lol

I do think we have a lot of soul searching to do and If I see this party try to pander to the fundies I will freak out and do everything in my power to see that the party dies a much deserved death at that point.

If you don't chime in now you may be looking at Hillary running in 2008 on a faith based platform.

[jdj]

17. I sent the BBV info to my sec.of state a year and a half ago.

twice.

I HATE to see us playing into their hands. I freaking hate it.

The way I see it is Dems are either the party of the common man, or not. The are either the women's equality party, or not. They are either the separation of church and state party, or not. They are either the party of equality for so-called minorities, or not.

When the hell did our own "values" become political to the extent that we can change them for political gain? If the party shape-shifts, it is no longer the party I want, so I'm with you on that one.

The repukes rigged this election because they know deep down, that it is THEM, not us, that are becoming dinosaurs. With global warming uniting americans on the enviroment, so freaking many of their business endeavors will have to pay and pay big to survive and make more dough,which is their only real "moral" value. With the influx of hispanics into this country, the increasing presence of minorities in all facets of the media (not to mention an increasingly large group of super-rich African Americans just from music and sports who have made enough money to wield considerable influence in society) we are quickly coming to a time when they won't be able to use racism to divide electorates. And also with television comes the increasing presence of gays in the american psyche as something other than pariah, the same goes for homosexuality. When you factor in these things and many others I haven't mentioned, the republicans are coming to a point 10 or 20 years from now where all of their traditional divisive tools WILL NOT WORK, or even register, with kids growing up today. And since they are statistically in a minority in this country, they will stand bald-ass naked before america with not one tool to use to make poor and middle class americans vote against their own best interests. They HAD to steal this one, in their view they had no other choice.

[Sterling]

18. I agree

"The way I see it is Dems are either the party of the common man, or not. The are either the women's equality party, or not. They are either the separation of church and state party, or not. They are either the party of equality for so-called minorities, or not."

This kind of posts belongs in a thread about what we did wrong. The fact is most people just don't buy that we represent the people you speak of. With good reason I think.

We failed them on Iraq we failed them on health care and we are in bed with many of the same people the pukes are.

If we can have a clearer uncompromising agenda we may be able to fight back in a culture war.

[jdj]

22. I buy it, and I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

I don't think we failed them, and I never will.

Those that did not vote, failed us, and failed themselves.

We are not here to play big mama tit to grown-ups. We can't help people who won't help themselves.

What we can do is fight for open and fair elections, and I strongly believe that this platform may energize and motivate the despondent and the anarchic who believe there is no point in voting. That's a constituency that we can't lose with.

[RafterMan]

14. That's the spirit.

[mtnsnake]

19. "Hugs and Puppies forum". LOL!

:D

[DaveofCali]

16. I'm angry because WE COULD'VE POUND BUSH INTO THE GROUND AND DIDNT!

Seriously, this SHOULD NOT have been a close election. There were TRUCKLOADS of Damning evidence against Bush and Kerry didn't use most of it, and didn't disseminate much of it effectively. I mean look how Bush pounded Kerry with the "Global Test", when Kerry couldve pounded Bush into the floor with Bush's ties to the Saudis and other such things like Bush telling Vladimir Putin to negociate with the Chechen Terrorists.

Bush was the MOST VULNERABLE PRESIDENT EVER and the chance to destroy him was lost!

[WilliamPitt]

20. Looks like today is 'Dean coulda won it' day

I'd like a look at the crystal ball those folks are gazing into.

[jdj]

24. if that little stunt with the isolation mike and the media cacaphony

of cant didn't do it, I don't know what will convince them this ain't they Daddy's America.

[RafterMan]

25. Are you planning to do a coulda/shoulda writeup

or are you on the Unification 2008 drive from day one?

[Bread and Circus]

21. Guess What! I'm tired of LOSING!

[jdj]

23. get used to it,.

Again, I repeat:

if Bush would expose a CIA operative, share war plans with a Saudi prince pre-war, lie about the Niger yellowcake, start an illegal war in which over 100,000 have been killed and probably twice that many are maimed and wounded, what on earth makes people think he and his party would allow an honest election this time (or last since iraq was in the works even then, it was on the 5 year business plan in '95) when he and all his cronies have BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars to lose by letting that happen?

Wise UP, people.