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doubles Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:16 PM
Original message
Black, Red, Brown, Yellow and Blue DUers, a question.......
Sharpton's attack on Dean

When is diversity an issue? Dean had a six member cabinet. His staff was diverse, his cabinet was not.

Let's say I were governor of a state with a 4 member cabinet, is it then imperative to cover all ground, to hire a White, Black, Hispanic and Asian? What if my state had only one cabinet position, should that member then be a mixed race candidate?

My point is this, I expect diversity when we are speaking numbers. In numbers, I mean, greater than say 50 or 100 people. A company of 100 employees should not be lily white with zero diversity, even in a 97% white state like Vermont. When discussing figures with numbers below 10, it is foolish to expect diversity to be an issue. How can we fault someone having a cabinet of only six people, especially in a 97% White state like Vermont for not being diverse? I believe leadership should be at least as diverse as its populace, in corporations as well as governorships. One minority on a 6 member cabinet represents 17%; Vermont is a state with a 3% minority. I believe this attack by Sharpton was below the belt, mean, nasty and vicious. All the respect I had for Al Sharpton is gone, I am now convinced that the rumors started by the right that he is working for the Clintons and Clark are correct.

Even Carol Moseley Brawn attacked Sharpton in last night's debate for his vicious and divisive message that is doing nothing but helping George Bush regain control come November!
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Printer70 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree
I think the "diversity" charge against Dean is an unsubstantial claim when you get to the details. It's a charge that injures the whole party- we're playing with fire.
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. What the racial scream out accomplished.--
It has unintended conseqences. Among people like us it will not have that much effect.

Until we have an open discussion on race there will be be blow-ups with unintended consequences. This is not to flame but why is affirmative action such an inflammatory issue? Because lower middle income and poor whites believe( and encouraged by some to believe)
that blacks and other minorities are getting special treatment.When Sharpton kept dogging Dean about the #number of Minoities???Republicans were quick to come on the air with "quotas". For these same groups when Dean talks back to Sharpton, it is a plus for Dean. "He must not be the typical liberal Wussie". who panders.

I am not taking sides here--I am saying we have permitted the race issue to go unaddressed so long; letting people form this ill-conceived ideas', and never correcting them , there is an undercurrent always ready to boil over.

Dean has hih heart in the right place and so does Sharpton. I think
Shartpton was playing to that specific adience not thinking of a broader audience. I find it interesting that Dean has more supporters in the Cogressional Black Caucus than any of the other candidates. Since the others are in the congress it is accepted that they woud support their own Members of Congress or Senate before an outsider. Maybe the CBC knows something we do not.

Kudos to Carol Mosley-Braun

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doubles Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Well said Ohdem...... nt
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Blue DUers?
Edited on Mon Jan-12-04 08:19 PM by Sean Reynolds
When did aliens begin posting as DUers? Or do you mean Clark supporters? ;-)
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. That would be
true blue democrat then ;-)
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Or Blue DOG Democrats?
With the likes of Lieberman, Zell Miller and other right of center Dems? ;-)
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yeah the ones who'll turn red states blue.
Clark has the power to do that, you know.
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Actually I hear Dems will be red in November.
They alternate colors each election cycle. So if Clark's going to change red states blue, it'll be 4 more years of Bush.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. I am kind of pinkish
Can I answer?

I thought Rev Al's comments were rude and unfair. But I don't hold it against him so much. This is the kind of battle he has been fighting for years. If he came to my neck of the woods I'd still go help him sign up voters.
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doubles Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Pinkish? LOL....... nt
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you, doubles
a very sensible post!!!
:pals:
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doubles Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Thanks for the hug, after the O'Neill fiasco, I really needed that hug....
I can't believe the way the media is downplaying that bombshell dropped by O'Neill......
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. Sharpton on NPR today
wondered how come Dean didn't have a problem with it. He also wondered how CMB could attack him after she criticized Gep. He said she must be working for Dean. Funny how different perspectives differ.
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I wonder if they showed the AP story to Sharpton.
You know the one that PROVES Dean tried to hire minorities to work in his cabinet?

I doubt it. Of course we know Sharpton never is wrong on ANY issue.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Then how come Dean approached him after the debate
and asked what he could do to fix the problem? Another VP offer?
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SadEagle Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. May be because Dean gives Sharpton more respect than he deserves?
And actually tries to listen to everyone, even people who are being total tools toward him?

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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. What does it hurt?
Someone attacks you and you try to clear the air. Dean could have just blown off Sharpton, but he chose to confront him and talk about the issue at hand.

I'm sure Dean didn't ask him how to fix the problem. But I don't doubt race was talked about.
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nancyharris Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. <When is diversity an issue?>
Diversity is always an issue. In Progressive politics, it is perhaps the single most important issue as it based on giving voice to those whose voice has, in traditional politics, been ignored. For the Democratic Party diversity is our strength and guiding light. It is the cornerstone of Affirmative Action which has for 2 generations been the defining character of the Democratic Party.

If diversity ever ceases to be an issue, our Party is dead.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
19. What's wrong with a cabinet having a disproportionate
number of minorities in it? Especially when the choice is between having one or zero? Does that mean that unless the larger population contains a critical mass of minorities that equates to one whole black person in the cabinet, there is never any need to try to diversify the smaller group?

Why is it ok for whites to be overrepresented in the cabinet (100% representation in the cabinet while only 97% of the overall population is white) but it is somehow a travesty for blacks to be overrepresented by having ONE person in the group?
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doubles Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. There is nothing wrong with a larger minority presence....
Having 1 or all minorities in a cabinet of 2 is fine and dandy, but to demand it IMO is ridiculous! Where I have a problem is taking a cheap shot at someone for not having minority representation in a cabinet of only 6, suggesting the candidate is possibly racist, especially in a 97% white state.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. We're not talking about a cabinet of only six
In his 12 years in office, Dean made at least 30 cabinet appointments. No one has demanded that he hire minorities, but his failure to hire a single minority in all of that time does call into question his commitment to affirmative action and, thus, diminishes his credibility as one who should be out lecturing others about the topic.
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doubles Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. How are you so sure Dean did not reappoint his same Cabinet members?
Aren't state elections every 4 years? That would be more like 18 possible vacancies, with most being possible reappointments from previous terms....
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Vermont's gubanatorial elections were every two years
And it is irrelevant whether Dean reappointed the same people. The bottom line is that he made more than 30 appointments and not one of them was a minority.
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doubles Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. My friend, if something is not broke, why fix it?
If he is happy with his appointments, why should he fire that person after an election? That would be disloyal and would be an overall bad policy, it would promote decent with his remaining members if one was fired for no reason.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Please list which cabinet members were reappointed
You seem to be aware that all of them were, so you certainly would have no problem giving us a list.

Also, you must not be aware that cabinet members' terms lapse with the end of each gubanatorial term, so there is no need to fire them. Their job just ends. The governor can appoint them again in his next term, but he is under no obligation to do so - he can appoint anyone he wants. Apparently, Dean only wanted white people.

I don't hate him for that. It just makes me wonder why he thinks he should be the one going around lecturing other white people about why it's a bad thing for them to allow their biases to drive them to "hire only people who look like them."
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doubles Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. You and Sharpton are doing the attacking, why don't YOU
lsit the 30 members he had if you are so sure he did not re-appoint his members.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Because I didn't make the claim
You answered my question. You don't know.

Thanks.
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doubles Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. "In his 12 years in office, Dean made at least 30 cabinet appointments"
I guess the above was just a statement..... :crazy:
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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. It doesn't bother me, but what if Bush brings this up...
The current cabinet is actually pretty diverse, and Dean might have to answer this question against Bush...

What should he say?
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doubles Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Trust me, Dean will hold his own against Shrub...
How diverse was Bush's cabinet in Texas?
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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. In that sense it's probably good that Sharpton brought it up...
...because Dean stumbled a little bit on that in the debate and the press and DU have been jumping on it. The campaign will have a good answer for it the next time.

I don't really know about the Texas cabinet, but Condi Rice was always around I think.
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