Olbermann MSNBC blog reverses Kerry win in to Tie!

[Anarcho-Socialist]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6198935/

Earlier on Kerry won 19-2.

Oldermann has added and subtracted "supplemental points" making the score:

Kerry 15
Bush 12

This is what Olbermann calls a "statistical draw", I call it bullshit.

[soleft]

1. He gave Bush 5 points in post debate photo ops - WTF?

[vetwife]

9. What are X's about in the threads?

[drdigi420]

13. low bandwidth mode due to increased traffic from debates

[librechik]

14. the site isn't loading all the usual animated graphics in order to

save bandwidth for talking! We get xes!

[vetwife]

17. thanks !

[theoceansnerves]

2. higher ups got to him.

they can't admit bush lost again and is done for good. this might not even be partistan, they just want to make it seem like the last debate is super important, even though kerry will again destroy bush.

[tomfodw]

3. Gotta blister Olberman with emails

This is bullshit.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

45. Think about it...this is not Olberman's decision.

[TheDebbieDee]

4. I know that he must be poking fun at the rest.............

of the media, emulating their actions after last week's debate by spinning Kerry's slaughter of * into a draw!

Purely Tongue-in-cheek of Keith Olbermann, gotta be.

[Kinkistyle]

5. I believe that Olbermann is making a wry commentary

That the actual content of the debate is not what counts, but what the media and the "image" that is portrayed to and by the media is what really decides these things. Bush got a whole bunch of points because everyone has such low expectations - like a mentally handicapped person - and he beat them.

[blm]

25. I think you nailed it.

.

[gemlake]

6. Total BS

[NYCGirl]

7. Give him time. He scored the VP debate first for Cheney, then reversed it

the next morning for lying after the factcheckers got their licks in.

[LizW]

8. That's just laughable.

It's just like the 2000 election. Kerry wins ---- oh, no, wait... make a few adjustments....supplemental points....and, VOILA! Folks, we've got a horserace.

Ridiculous.

[redstateblues]

10. He Got A Call From GE

[Gabi Hayes]

11. took my words, exactly....what a total HO

[Carolinian]

12. I think it will change again after he's had a chance to look at the replay

This is what I want to see again:
The blonde girl in the brown shirt who asked the question about abortion. She acted strangely with Bush afterwards. I think they know each other.
Bush bullying the moderator.
Count how many time Bush said "credible".
Replay the dumbass comment Bush made about wood
Replay the dumbass comment Bush made about green eyeshadow.
Kerry looking directly into the camera & saying no tax increases.

[fsbooks]

16. i noticed the blonde girl

It was not the response I expected when I saw them approach. Bush kind of ignored her. (this on CBS).

[MaineDem]

21. He said green "eyeshades"

It's a reference to accountants...number crunchers.

[intheflow]

35. Yeah, what was up with the blond girl?

I also noticed the blond asking the question about her tax $$$ going to abortions. Thought when she asked the question of Kerry she was one of those wholesome holier-than-thou, Bush-leaning kind of girls. But when Bush countered Kerry's answer, she *did* look at him oddly, as though she just didn't like him AT ALL. I think she's probably a Republican who actually votes single issue (abortion, or in her case, "pro-life") but she's struggling because she knows Bush is so completely incompetent (if not delusional and evil).

BTW, I've been reading a lot of spin about Kerry's answer to her. "Muddy" is the word the NY Times used. But I liked his answer. He said he struggled with the morality of it personally but as presidet he has to be president to everyone. Then he defended poor women's right to have access to abortions. I don't find that muddy, but a truthful and thoughtful response, reflecting the nuances of both political and reproductive rights debates in the US.

[newyawker99]

36. Hi jinuu!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Native]

39. Exactly!

[Carolinian]

43. Kerry's answer was presidential. I wish I had the quote.

[intheflow]

49. Kerry abortion answer w/link to debate transcript

C-SPAN 2nd Presidential debate transcript: http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004c.html


DEGENHART: Senator Kerry, suppose you are speaking with a voter who believed abortion is murder and the voter asked for reassurance that his or her tax dollars would not go to support abortion, what would you say to that person?

KERRY:

...First of all, I cannot tell you how deeply I respect the belief about life and when it begins. I'm a Catholic, raised a Catholic. ... Religion has been a huge part of my life. It helped lead me through a war, leads me today.

But I can't take what is an article of faith for me and legislate it for someone who doesn't share that article of faith, whether they be agnostic, atheist, Jew, Protestant, whatever. I can't do that.

...

But as a president, I have to represent all the people in the nation. And I have to make that judgment.

Now, I believe that you can take that position and not be pro- abortion, but you have to afford people their constitutional rights. And that means being smart about allowing people to be fully educated, to know what their options are in life, and making certain that you don't deny a poor person the right to be able to have whatever the constitution affords them if they can't afford it otherwise.

...

You'll help prevent AIDS.

You'll help prevent unwanted children, unwanted pregnancies.

You'll actually do a better job, I think, of passing on the moral responsibility that is expressed in your question. And I truly respect it.

GIBSON: Mr. President, minute and a half.

BUSH: I'm trying to decipher that.

...

[Carolinian]

50. Thanks for the link. Read this please....

This part (paraphrased) shows how the President of the US should think:

"I can't take what is an article of faith for me and legislate it for someone who doesn't share that article of faith. I can't do that...
As a president, I have to represent all the people in the nation. And I have to make that judgment."

[Carolinian]

51. Bush's comment about having "Group Maternity Homes" was not in the

transcript, or I couldn't find it. He said it and it means he wants to bring back unwed mother homes like those all over the US before abortion. I take this to mean he wants to change the make up of the Supreme Court and reverse abortion laws.

[intheflow]

57. Bush's Home For Naughty Girls quote

I found the quote in the C-SPAN transcript. Along with other BS. I like how he tries to frame people who are pro-choice as unreasonable because we don't agree with him. And the suggestion that pro-lifers welcome babies as new lives, whereas (implicitly) pro-choice people hate babies and therefore, life. This argument would be stronger if these same people weren't for cutting the public safety net for poor women who have unwanted/unplanned children. And then, who is to pay for all these group maternity homes? Faith Based Initiatives? Who funds those, and who runs them?

Aaargh! don't get me started. I went to DC in April for that march for repro rights, the biggest march ever in DC, so I know that the majority of people in this country are pro-choice and the pro-life side is probably scared shitless of us heartless heathens.

Anyway, as to the quote you were looking for, here is, in direct response to Kerry answer (2nd to last line of answer):

BUSH: I'm trying to decipher that.

My answer is, we're not going to spend taxpayers' money on abortion.

This is an issue that divides America, but certainly reasonable people can agree on how to reduce abortions in America.

I signed the partial-birth -- the ban on partial-birth abortion. It's a brutal practice. It's one way to help reduce abortions. My opponent voted against the ban.

I think there ought to be parental notification laws. He's against them.

I signed a bill called the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

In other words, if you're a mom and you're pregnant and you get killed, the murderer gets tried for two cases, not just one. My opponent was against that.

These are reasonable ways to help promote a culture of life in America. I think it is a worthy goal in America to have every child protected by law and welcomed in life.

I also think we ought to continue to have good adoption law as an alternative to abortion.

And we need to promote maternity group homes, which my administration has done.

Culture of life is really important for a country to have if it's going to be a hospitable society.

Thank you.

[oasis]

47. It sounded like Bush said "battling green eyeshades". Transparent visors

with a green tint.It was a reference to accountants and clerks who used to work many hours under harsh bright lights.

Bush wasn't very clear in that particular presentation. He most likely heard the term used before in conversation and decided to insert it into the debate.

[realFedUp]

15. The levels of expectation is so different

If Bush can just manage to keep words
coming out of his mouth and not smirk
as much as last time, he's deemed
to have done better.

Kerry's held to much higher standards which
he met beautifully tonight

[mvd]

18. Well, I guess the media is beyond hope

But Bush been two Bushes (one confused, one an error-prone loon,) just like Gore was different Gores - no intangible losses for Bush there? Didn't think so. The media will look after their corporate interests. Ask Viacom's CEO.

I just proved my case without Olbermann.

[NightOwwl]

19. Oh Christ.

Don't tell me they got to him too.

[Democat]

20. Look at how the media lives in fear of angering the right wing, but...

No one in the media fears the left.

We don't own the corporations who own the media - we can't get them fired.

[NYCGirl]

22. And we're not the incumbents. Yet. (eom)

NT

[0rganism]

23. 5 point penalty for a lost post-debate photo op? Kind of extreme....

...says more about Olbermann's opinion of the viewing audience than Kerry's performance.

[Jasper 91]

27. But Kerry was doing 'photo ops. too

And he stayed for a long time chatting with the audience . Bush left first .

[Native]

24. Sent him a nasty email.

This crap needs to stop.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

26. Did he give Bush credit for more laughs? Maybe that was it

Sylvia Burlesque
Need Some Wood?
Senator Kennedy

[restorefreedom]

28. this is a sad development..

KO was the only one left at MSGOP with independent thought - and now it looks like he's caved. I don't sense any satire in the post debate scoring adjustment.

It looks like he got the company memo to keep the debate a draw so everyone will watch the third one.

What a shame. I never thought he'd cave for anybody. Ever.

[restorefreedom]

30. is Jon Stewart going to be the only one left?

and he's not even a real journalist.

This is a sad state of affairs.

All I know is when Fox provides more balanced coverage than MSGOP, it is saying something.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

29. Jeff Imelt must have talked to him.

sad.

[demgrrrll]

31. There were 15 to 20 thousand people at the America Center downtown

I know because I was there. It was amazing amazing amazing
Kerry came down about 10 30 or so. Crowd went wild. Everyone I talked to thought he did great, we watched the debate on the Jumbo Tron.
Really was fun. Soft Pretzels and beer. I think JJMarshall is a Republican mole. A draw my ass. Olberman too. Anyone who said this debate was a draw is a big kiss ass weenie. So there.

I do have to admit it is hard to judge crowd size so I asked several people what they thought too and we all agreed it was at least 15 to 20.

[depakid]

32. What do you want to bet he got "orders" from above?

After all, these are the same whores who fired Phil Donahue, despite the fact that it was their top rated show.

[restorefreedom]

33. oh, man - you think he got the "or else"

threat?

Still, KO does not seem to be one to cave to management.

If that's what happened, they would have had to pressure him REAL hard.

KO isn't Tweety - he doesn't roll over for the suits like the wind.

It would have had to have been a serious threat to get him to spin.

And even then part of me likes to think he'd tell them to shove it.

That's why tonight was so perplexing.

[MADem]

34. He said he will revise after fact checking

Bush will lose points when KO verifies the WOOD story. Do make it a point to let him know, I have.

[opstachuck]

37. it's now back to Kerry 16, Bush 6 - calls it a Kerry win n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

38. LOL, look at this line

The scorer's table reproaches President Bush for not knowing when he has wood.

[Eric J in MN]

40. Email Kerith Olbermann at

[email protected]

and explain that most papers run photos of the candidates TOGETHER in one photo.

Bush doens't deserve 5 points for being photographed right after the debate.

[Native]

41. He must have received quite a few emails...

"The Scorer's Table, having taken two hours to let the Blogosphere complete its due diligence (and to permit the scorer to retreat to a corner of the room, don cold compresses, and moan quietly)..." posted @ 1:23 am in his "Timber Update"

[KharmaTrain]

42. What Have You Done For Me Lately

If there's any friend we have in a very unfriendly media, it's Keith Olbermann. He's aired the stories we wish other had done and he hasn't pulled punches in how he presents the stories. He's with us 99.9% of the time...and he makes one unpopular move and the knives are out here like he's on Faux News.

Read his play-by-play closely...there's no doubt in his mind, on substance, Bunnypants had his clock cleaned, but the debate isn't on substance, it's a TV show/sports spectacle...breads and circuses, and that's how Keith did his final anaylsis.

All he did was revise the score to match the spinning...which is, unfortunately, more important than the debate itself. What he did, and we should take this message away from this...is revise his points based on the post-debate spinning where the GOOP was prepared and really did get their points out louder and faster than the Democrats did.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

46. Your post is smack dead on the mark. Thank you very much....

...I've gotten to the point where I REALLY dislike the folks on DU that respond without thinking.

[BlueNomad]

44. I saw I at 19-2

and was appalled when he first changed it reducing Kerry's score by 10 points. Give me a break. That alone had to be one of the more bogus moves of the night. You are only handing out a point or 2 per round. What would logically justify a shift of 10 points.... certainly not the bullshit he wrote since I saw Kerry being swarmed like a rockstar by well wishers and shaking hands. Is Keith saying that alledged PR move in the end is worth 5-10 rounds of the debate...Pleazze what a wuss....

I think he got scared and like all these disgusting media pundits heard his friends at MSNBC open their mouths ----from Andrea to Tweety --- singing Bush effusive praise and he backed down....

I think Kerry killed him but God forbid anyone expect a thing of Shrub. They would give him a tie just for showing up and not wetting his pants and not saying "goo goo gaga mama".

..My prediction---the Kerry lead will widen as folks focus on the whole aggressive, rude screaming at gibson, not to mention the complete inability to ADMIT BEING WRONG. Soft voters do not LIKE that.

[restorefreedom]

48. I have to admit....

I had a few doubts last night after he called it a draw. Photo ops are not a good enough reason, imo.

But I also think now that he suspected the factcheck would come through in JK's favor so he knew he would likely be reversig his original score.

He did have me scared for a minute, though. With all the Bush whoring going on at his network, I thought we had lost him, too.

And that would have been a major loss.

[autorank]

52. Kieth Olbermann, another douchebag of liberty! Bite me Kieth!

[NYCGirl]

55. Before you smear the wonderful Mr. Olbermann, take another look

at the facts. Like I predicted in my post #7 above, he reversed his decision later on.

Chill. Now who's biting who?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5445086/

Mr. Bush is also penalized three points for a truth foul.
Mr. Bush is further penalized two points for getting snarky while in the act of being factually incorrect.

The thirteenth round, originally scored 2-0 for Mr. Bush, now reverts to a 1-1 draw, and the rounds awarded total now changes from 12 Kerry, 4 Bush, 3 Drawn, to 12 Kerry, 3 Bush, 4 Drawn.

The final points scoring is now adjusted from Kerry 15, Bush 12, to Kerry 16, Bush 6.  The Scorer thus designates the outcome as a Kerry victory outside the margin for statistical error.

The scorer's table reproaches President Bush for not knowing when he has wood.

[Carolinian]

53. Maybe we should let Bush think he won.

That way he'll get all cocky, or maybe I should say woody, and go into the next debate over confident. Don't give KO a hard time. He's the only friend we have...and I luv him.

[951]

54. THIS IS SICK!

Are we living in a facist state or what?

[spanone]

56. CNN has a poll up now that has completely reversed itself for bush*

They are gonna steal this election folks.

[seabeyond]

58. he gave bush points for lumber story, pending...........

whether or not it came up a lie. it came up a lie so he docked him for the lie, and being snarky during the lie. 16 kerry, 6 bush

[KBlagburn]

59. Final Score Kerry 19-2 updated 1:32 am EST

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6198935


1:23 a.m. ET
Timber Update:
In the middle of its evaluation of Bush-Kerry II, the Hooey from St. Looey, the Scorer's Table warned Mr. Bush during the course of the thirteenth round that if it proved Mr. Kerry was correct in his assertion that the President derived $84 of income from part-ownership of a timber company, the President would be severely sanctioned.

The Scorer's Table, having taken two hours to let the Blogosphere complete its due diligence (and to permit the scorer to retreat to a corner of the room, don cold compresses, and moan quietly), can now quote the truth from "Factcheck.Org": "President Bush himself would have qualified as a 'small business owner' under the Republican definition, based on his 2001 federal income tax returns. He reported $84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise." Brooks Jackson's marvelous site noted that the timber interest was listed under "royalties" in his 2002 and 2003 returns, indicating The Texas Thunderbolt still has an interest in said concern.

The point awarded to Mr. Bush in the thirteenth round is hereby withdrawn and awarded to Mr. Kerry, for the latter's enterprising hoisting of his opponent on said opponent's own petard.

Mr. Bush is also penalized three points for a truth foul.
Mr. Bush is further penalized two points for getting snarky while in the act of being factually incorrect.

The thirteenth round, originally scored 2-0 for Mr. Bush, now reverts to a 1-1 draw, and the rounds awarded total now changes from 12 Kerry, 4 Bush, 3 Drawn, to 12 Kerry, 3 Bush, 4 Drawn.

The final points scoring is now adjusted from Kerry 15, Bush 12, to Kerry 16, Bush 6. The Scorer thus designates the outcome as a Kerry victory outside the margin for statistical error.

The scorer's table reproaches President Bush for not knowing when he has wood.

Good night and good luck.