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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 08:09 PM
Original message
"The Left establishment's attack on 9/11 skeptics"

The Left establishment's attack on 9/11 skeptics
by repost Saturday, Apr. 22, 2006 at 10:24 PM

Soon after revelations concerning Bush administration prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks ("Memogate"), a number of well-known media "liberals" and "progressives" launched a heavy-handed series of broadsides against independent 9/11 researchers who had been developing alternative theories in response to the deeply flawed and fraudulent official story. Why would they do this, at precisely the point that the Bush administration was clearly sweating bullets and in deep trouble?

This question is particularly important in light of the fact that the anti-conspiracy critics have not been able (nor apparently willing) to articulate their own theory of what happened on 9/11 (and why) which can explain the devastating evidence and contradictions that have been exposed by independent researchers. Instead of offering a credible explanation, the gatekeepers merely saw fit to pathologize 9/11 skeptics as "paranoid conspiracy nuts" and "a danger to our movement."

Not surprisingly, the rank and file didn't buy into the hypenor were many convinced by the gatekeepers' offhand, passionless calls for an official investigation. Interest in alternative 9/11 reporting continued to grow, and by the time that members of 9/11 victim's families began publicly demanding an end to the government coverup and even mainstream media outlets such as the NY Times were admitting that the lack of an independent investigatory commission was "extraordinary," the Left media gatekeepers backed down and adopted a new tactic of silent stonewalling and tacit support for the official story.


"Silent stonewalling" and removal of any discussion from "polite" circles, thus many if not most remain uneducated?

I'm beginning to think we really are a danger to "their movement".

More at link: http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2006/04/1727130.php
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. What possible reason would they have to come out
that vehemently against 911 researchers, unless ...they aren't really democrats or they're DLC or gatekeepers, I've read that about David Corn. And Pacific radio really screwed Michael Ruppert over although his 911 show had the highest numbers on it , I think, ever, I'm not sure , but it had high numbers so that wasn't their motivation. Many "democratic" groups" have been taken over, it's scary. If it were on Clinton's watch they would be all over him with far less indication of involvement. In fact, they DO try to claim Clinton did it, I've seen that quite a few times and none of their party denounces that. Air America doesn't go there, they told Randi Rhodes to back off. Al Franken never says any of the really significant stuff. I hope it changes, that is all I can say.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think they are deathly afraid of questioning 9/11.
The media has to take the lead...and they seem disinclined to independently investigate. There don't want to look like McKinney. Without investigatory control of committee's, there is no chance to bring it before Congress. Asking questions from the outside would bring forth a torrent of ridicule by the Republican Press. Maybe that will change if we get a majority in Congress.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. That's our only hope and even that may not be enough
if these democrats continue to act like sheep: "Pre 911 mind set" and all that BS.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yes, but I believe this fear goes deeper than that. It isn't just 9/11
they don't want to question; it is the whole social/political framework that must actually exist if 9/11 and all that has followed from it, including the cover-up, is actually a crime of State.

I can not imagine the media ever "taking the lead" with this. It was the media who made McKinney look that way, not like herself, but like the way they painted her. So who would make them "look like McKinney" except themselves? I don't see many brave souls willing to take that on without some assurance of their survival. Look what they are doing with Charley Shean's character in the tabloid media. I'm not saying he doesn't have personality flaws, but who among us can cast the first stone? The point being that that becomes what is put forward, not any focus on the questions which have a significance quite independent of whatever character he has.

I don't know. Frankly, I have little faith that even with Democratic control of the house that a genuine investigation of 9/11 will ever occur. I mean, it ought to happen. It is desperately needed. But are people really ready to expose the beast, the genuine criminality that weaves its way through so many of the wealthiest and most powerful people on Earth? Are people ready to stand up to these criminals and face them down once and for all? I want to be hopeful but it isn't easy.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I know, the media is owned by a handful of corporations who benefit
from the arrangement they have with this evil administration. What I don't get is the democrats unwillingness to say anything. Is it just because they don't want to get " McKinneyed"? or are they protecting something. The same questions I asked when Kerry wouldn't come out about election fraud. Did he make a deal? Did he just not want to get further swiftboated? Or is that silly sounding Skull & Bones stuff true?
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. maybe they're still gathering and weighing the info

That's what true skeptics do. There still isn't a "smoking gun" with regard to this stuff.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Yes, maybe, but I think there is enough info to show that a
further investigation is needed. I mean, a "real " investigation is all skeptics want anyway I think. Several congress people have called for this, one is a repub.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I wish I were smart enough to understand all the intricacies of what
Edited on Mon Apr-24-06 12:59 AM by Beam Me Up
REALLY goes on in our world. One thing I've become convinced of, though, is that just about everything we assume or have been led to believe is true, isn't.

That is a radical statement and I mean it to encompass most of what I believe is meant by epistemology. Unfortunately, not being a philosopher, only some 'dumb artist' who whiles away his life in idle pursuits, when he isn't working two part time jobs to keep body and soul together, such subjects as this are FAR beyond my poor intellectual capacity.

Suffice it to say, however, it isn't only WHAT we know that is the problem, it is HOW we know it; and please don't be a smarty paints and ask me how I know that because, truth is, I have no idea. Being a pudding head, this doesn't bother me one bit.

What do I know? Well, I know that I've been lied to for so long by so many people who claim to be 'authorities' that I no longer believe anyone is telling me the truth about anything. I don't mean to say that I think most people are being intentionally deceitful; quite the contrary. Most people apparently believe their own lies. It gets even more complicated because many of the lies they believe, perhaps even most, did not originate with the person in question. All of us believe things that just aren't true, about ourselves, about our world, about the way the world works. In fact, the way I see it, we have to dig pretty deeply to come in contact with something in ourselves that is fundamentally true, not needing quotation marks. What can I say without doubt to be true about myself or even about the world I like to think I know so much about?

I don't know what the truth is but I've come to believe that the world is mostly being run by criminals, some of them criminal families and associations of various sorts that have quite a long and nefarious history. Nevertheless, they are criminals, and by that I mean that they often operate in an social environment which almost offers them 'free reign' to do whatever they want and for the most part get away with it. A lot which appears to be 'politics' at one level is actually just the cover for a broad range of criminal activities which, in the end, are allowed to proceed by a corrupted system of government -- including the military and the policing agencies. Everyone at a certain level is 'on the take' for their own interest or the interests of those they are 'beholding to' or represent.

This is how it looks to me and I do not see the significance of breaking it down along traditional 'party' lines. Are all Republicans criminals and all Democrats perfect citizens? I don't think so. I'm not perfect, I know that. I do, however, have a moral compass; there are just some things that I will not do. Moreover, I'm of the opinion that for a society to work together and prosper it is in the best interest of all to at least TRY to find moral compass and uphold certain values that are more than just my own lust and greed. Although there is sometimes 'honor among thieves' I think in the main criminals have little moral compass in this regard and are as apt to betray one another as help. This is one of the reasons their history is so bloody violent.

I don't know. What are we talking about? Ah, yes, 'left' gate keepers and all that.

I had an interesting encounter last night. I was invited to a friend's home for dinner with four other people. We ranged in age from mid 40s to mid 80s. Some (not counting yours truly) were quite well off. All consider themselves both quite liberal, if not progressive, and quite educated and cultured. Our hostess, for example, is a professor at a local university in the area of consciousness and eastern traditions. There were two published authors, a retired public radio personality, the manager of a small local ballet company and myself. Conversation ranged over quite a lot of areas but circled around politics and political analysis.

It is interesting to me to observe how frightened many (not all) of these people are to consider the possibility that the political reality they have identified with all these years may be a kind of elaborate fiction. Or at least that it no longer functions to such an extent that getting it to work, getting it to actually manifest its potential, would require an almost revolutionary intent. They do not want to see that the world is run by criminals and they do not want to see that these criminals have taken control of our society, including our military. They do not want to see how deep this goes -- and I think I know why. I think, and this may be totally false, I think if the truth be known they don't want to know because they do not want to have to face the truth that THEY are living a kind of lie. They are lying to themselves and one another and the world. They are as out of touch with reality as is the 'right' only they don't have a quasi-religious hitching post for their particular camel to be tethered to.

In conversation with this august group one actually said to me that the things I was pointing out, leading inevitably to the conclusion that 9/11 was something quit different than we are being told by our government, the military, the FBI and the corporate owned media, invariably left her feeling completely defenseless. She would rather NOT KNOW because she is afraid of what she might have to do if she did know.

At least she was honest about it.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. 9/11 was an atrocity
carried out by specific members of our government. They need to be brought to justice. Germany survived and so will we.

I think your friends are in denial, just like lot of people. :shrug:
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I don't know if things have ever been this bad, though
Germany was stopped, who's going to stop us? Sorry to be so negative, but that is what I think lately. I don't know how things have gotten so bad. Maybe they always were and other administrations had the ability to hide reality. The truth has got to come out about this and I just don't see how it is going to.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I think we the people can handle it.
Only this time I hope we don't stop at impeachment like in '75. That's how we got into this mess in the first place. We need to clean out the whole rat's nest.

And if that means the demise of the Grand Old Party I personally won't be sorry to see it go.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. correction, articles of impeachment
followed by resignation on August 9, 1974, followed by a pardon from Ford on September 8, immunizing Nixon from prosecution for crimes he may have committed as President.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Resignation

Ford was also the stooge who let Dick and Rummy run his foreign policy.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yes, I want to see it go much further than 74, 75 as well.
Edited on Mon Apr-24-06 10:29 AM by Beam Me Up
I've never understood the intricacies of Nixon's resignation but what I do see is that Ford was put in a position to become president of the United states without having been elected to the office of president or vice president and I also see that HE brought Rumsfeld and Cheney into the fold. Later, Reagan put both of them into two extra Constitutional lines of succession, thus deeply imbedding them in the top secret lines of communication and command within the national security state apparatus. But so far as origins, this network of criminals were responsible for the death of JFK and its cover-up and the American people let them get away with it then. One of the first things LBJ did was have the presidential limousine in which the assassination took place, dismantled. Destruction of evidence in crime of state just like we see at Ground Zero. If they can do that, if they can assassinate a popular President in broad day light and get away with it, and continue to get away with it to this day, what can't they do?

I post this every once in a while:

...knowledge brings responsibility. If we acknowledge that an inner circle of ruling elites controls the world's most powerful military and intelligence system; controls the international banking system; controls the most effective and far-reaching propaganda network in history; controls all three branches of government in the world's only superpower; and controls the technology that counts the people's votes, we might be then forced to conclude that we don't live in a particularly democratic system. And then voting and making contributions and trying to stay informed wouldn't be enough. Because then the duty of citizenship would go beyond serving as a loyal opposition, to serving as a "loyal resistance"like the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, except that in this case the resistance to fascism would be on the side of the national ideals, rather than the government; and a violent insurgency would not only play into the empire's hands, it would be doomed from the start.

Forming a nonviolent resistance movement, on the other hand, might mean forsaking some middle class comfort, and it would doubtless require a lot of work. It would mean educating ourselves and others about the nature of the truly apocalyptic beast we face. It would mean organizing at the most basic neighborhood level, face to face. (We cannot put our trust in the empire's technology.) It would mean reaching across turf lines and transcending single-issue politics, forming coalitions and sharing data and names and strategies, and applying energy at every level of government, local to global. It would also probably mean civil disobedience, at a time when the Bush regime is starting to classify that action as "terrorism." In the end, it may mean organizing a progressive confederacy to govern ourselves, just as our revolutionary founders formed the Continental Congress. It would mean being wise as serpents, and gentle as doves.

It would be a lot of work. It would also require critical mass. A paradigm shift.

Paranoid Shift


Edit to add: There will be NO NATIONAL SECURITY so long as these criminals are left in charge.
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Jazz2006 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. BeamMeUp - Your very thoughtful post deserves a much better response
Edited on Mon Apr-24-06 03:18 AM by Jazz2006
than that, and I'd been thinking about it for a couple of hours. Then I came back and saw that it had only that one response (#6) and it deserved so much better. But then I also realized that in this particular forum, there is little point in me trying to respond to it because there are a certain few posters who will jump all over whatever I say and dismiss it all with a one liner, much like that one. (Because so many see things in black and white that they can't fathom how some people, like me, see a thousand shades of grey, and they just reactively attack blindly, instinctively).

So, I'm sorry, but I haven't the time or energy to do it justice in those circumstances.

But, for the record, that was a great post. I'll leave it at that.

(And with any luck, a couple of the usual suspects will appear now in response and will, whether they would have earlier or not, add to your great post)



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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. I know what you mean about the well educated
comfortable "left". They are often in denial and their politics tend to be superficial. I live in Seattle, I'm around it all the time. Tons of affluence, education, and they are liberal but they don't do anything more than the right in terms of making things better. That includes me, I suppose, but I am not in denial about what is going on at least. No one wants to talk about it. As long as it is that way, nothing is going to change. I wish they could see. As far as the rest of your post, what can I say, I think the same things & I can't improve on how you said it. Well done, great writing, I wonder what percentage of Americans feel that way?
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AlienSpaceBat Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. Thoughtful post & well said
I agree with you that in the main people are afraid to look behind the curtain.

It's one thing to believe that such and such a politician is corrupt, or that such and such a policy is a deception. If the system as a whole is benign then these people will be found out, these policies will be changed over time.

Its a general malaise of the western democracies, I think, but I also think that the problem is hugely worse in the USA. There is such a belief that the USA is special, is an example to the rest of the world, a beacon to behold, that is rammed into the mindset of americans from an early age. To delve into the heart of darkness that 9/11 represents is a world shatterer for someone who has never really questioned these things, and there is a psychological reluctance to get on that track of thought.

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Why thank you, kin of mine!
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 12:55 AM by Beam Me Up
You know, like you, I'm only just visiting this planet. I know when I first got here my first reaction was to scream bloody murder for all the PAIN that saturates the atmosphere of this otherwise quite stunning little planet. H20 is such an amazing element and in such abundance here. Don't you just love the way the white billowing clouds shimmer with glistening colors at certain times of the day? I just can't get over it. And the trees! I met someone online just a while back who confessed that he'd never hugged a tree. He is a Christian, or so he said, although I'm quite certain he's on our side. We were on team speak. He is back East and I am out West and there is probably 30 years or so between our ages. Knowing that I'm an "old hippie" and that I live here in California, he asked me if I was a tree huger and I had to admit, I am. He laughed, quite astounded, as if he'd never met one before, only heard about them as a sort of myth. I said, "What! You mean you've NEVER HUGGED A TREE!!??" And he admitted he had not. I was truly astounded; how can anyone with a beating heart and a breathing soul NOT want to hug a tree? He asked me, "Well, what is so great about hugging a tree?" Astounding, I tell you!! I had to say, "Well, it isn't simply hugging 'a tree', you understand, it is wrapping your arms around an axis mundae; it is embracing the local representative of a cosmic principal; it is to touch a great living being that is far more ancient than ourselves." I think he was somehow impressed by that.

We talked quite a bit about 9/11, which he believes was at least in some way an 'inside job', and I asked him what he thought all this, when you come right down to it, means. His answer, and he was quite sincere and serious about it, was, "I believe it is the end times; the tribulations have begun."

Interesting, that. I said a few things: "The Christian prayer is for the end of the world, that it might come quickly, the only question is 'how'? A mistake here could prove quite costly." And: "The delay in the arrival of the second coming exists for those whose expectations lie in linear time and literal meaning." And: "The Fire Next Time: Lies burn up as men perceive them for what they are. (I am not the originator of those thoughts, except, possibly, the last one.)

Where do the great meanings, the great myths, come from? If they do not come from within us, who brings them?



Sunrise!
Surprise
Civilized Man
You were keeper to me
Now your animal is free
And you're free to die

Die!

You're old and your hands are gray
Your old go home and
We've all heard you dirty stories

Two thousand years
Two thousand years
Two thousand years
Of your
God damn
Glory!


...

Only the sun knows what we really need to know
Only the sun holds the secret
And more than human can we be
Cause human's truly locked
To this planetary circle

You gotta ride said the Doktor of space
I have lived here once before
The lites in the nite are a village of stars
Of stars that I have explored
Beyond the idea of beyond the void
And beyond that and more
Parallel lines in this village of stars
Will lead you to the second door
And time won't wait for the Doktor of space from the city of the sun to come

WHERE DO YOU GO FROM HERE

CHAOS OR COMMUNITY?

CAN'T YOU SEE - ON THIS AND FUTURE SUNDAYS!


7000 Gypsies swirlin together
Offering to the sun in the name of the weather
Gonna Hijack - HIJACK THE STARSHIP

...

We come and go like a comet
We are wanderers
Are you anymore?
The land is green and you make it grow
And you gotta let go you know
You gotta let go you know
You gotta let go you know
Or else you stay
MANKIND GONE FROM THE CAGE
ALL THE YEARS GONE FROM YOUR AGE!


At first I was irridescent
Then I became transparent
Finally (Finally!) I was absent


Can you believe it?

Ah, can you believe it?


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AlienSpaceBat Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Thanks for that.
You say a lot for me to reflect upon.

I too have hugged a tree, though I don't conform (I think) to the stereotype !

Lies burn up as men perceive them for what they are

      - don't they just ! The great hope I have in all this is that as the evidence of these lies is brought into the light of day from the dark places where it is hidden, that the unaware will start to see things, piece by piece, for what they really are.

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Chomp Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Beam Me Up
Edited on Mon Apr-24-06 08:34 PM by Chomp
I disagree with most of your posts on 9/11, but this one is absolutely excellent. Your passion is very moving.



Ed to add "on 9/11".
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. The myth of America
Yes, thoughtful post. Of course-what would we have to do if we knew our -shock-horror-gasp-OWN GOVERNMENT treated us as well, nothing much more than collateral damage? Because that's what I see 9/11 as. Something useful for THEM. New Pearl Harbor. And what is the proper response to utter indifference or outright intent of your government to kill you? I have speculated that whomever is directy complicit-that they even in their twisted way-thought it might be "for the best". Only a few thousand dead COMPARED to the many more that would be dead if they didn't have their way in trying to remake the world, after all "the Daddy State" knows best. This is exactly how Bushco has treated us, as children, and they as the ones that know best. We are not allowed to know anything. They just frighten us with monsters to get us to behave.

I have been in this dilema for sometime since the veil came off. Maybe it was more personal to me-because I once lived in NYC and worked at the WTC and well, damn it, (high drama I know) it could have been me. It's not remote. It's my own government. And what do I do about it? It's not denial, it's fear. I admit my fear. It's a good place to start. Afterall, fear and propaganda initially got me to support the Iraq war. Which is what lead me to 9/11. Every good lawyer tells you that "if they lie about one thing, feel free to assume they could be lying about anything." And with every day and every revelation this is a stone cold fact.

May I recommend the fiction book of stories, "Twilight of the Superheroes" The title story sums up everything that living behind the veil is about. It's so beautiful. The one line that sticks with me-about America in general is

"You had everything and you gave it away in an instant."

Well we didn't have everything, and we are a very flawed country with a dirty past-but if I could go back to before that day-to how it forever changed my myth of America-one which I will never believe in again-because yes, 9/11 changed everything.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. I am honored to be the recipient of such honesty, Generator.
I hardly know how to respond.

I've only been to NY once in my life but I don't think it makes any difference. Look what happened -- is happening -- to New Orleans and the Gulf coast. The death and destruction could spread. Global war is a very real possibility and if the 'terrorists' we are creating right and left can't get it together to attack us to keep the American citizenry fighting for their very lives, then I'm sure there are covert operatives owned by more local interests that would be happy to move things along. None of us are safe so long as criminals are in charge of our national security apparatus. All of our lives are in danger. Most people think I'm being a bit histrionic, and understandably so. Still, when you let people get away with mass murder and you let them get away with stealing hundreds of billions of dollars and you let them get away with covering up arguably the biggest crime of this new century (so far), then why should they stop there?

They aren't going to stop until they are stopped, that, to me, is perfectly clear.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. the article from Z Magazine

Is quite reasonable and fair. I don't see why things like that should be taboo on a 9/11 forum.

Since when is the 9/11 forum strictly a 'conspiracy' forum anyway? I don't recall it being that way when it first started. It ought to be a forum for 9/11 news reporting, stories of the victims, and so forth - in short, it ought to be a forum for -anything- relating to 9/11. I am wondering why it isn't. I am researching a number of things, among them 9/11 and its links to crime networks in the U.S., and I am not finding much here that is helpful in that regard. I do think the original mission of this forum has been misinterpreted.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. This forum doesn't even show up on the Latest page
anymore when anyone posts a thread.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. That sounds interesting, you should post about it
you can post whatever you want, but I know what you mean. I posted an article about the insider trader one time, that was kind of mind blowing, and no one posted a response except to say that they had also posted about it and no one responded!
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. Once people are dazzled by the amazing
Computer animation from (PBS or TLC) that visualizes they Pancake Theory the can't process any new evidence... why should they sully thier beautiful minds with it when the TV told them what to think already.
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quickesst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. One thing.....
I haven't been participating here, but I've been reading it for awhile. The thing I've noticed is whenever a 9/11 debunker gets a reply, it is usually in the form of having their ass handed to them by some very savvy people here. When you sit back and observe, this kind of thing is easy to spot. Actually, I haven't seen any posts that use random whatever bullshit to reply to the debunkers. I suppose if they act first, proclaim they will recieve crap replies, they can claim that status for any reply. Unfortunately for them, they have to deal with intelligent, thoughtful people. If not for that, they would probably do well here. Thanks!
quickesst
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Your post is impossible to figure out.
What do you meab by "9/11 Debunker?"

DO you mean the official conspiracy theory? Or alternate conspiracy theories?
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Pissed Off Cabbie Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. You can fool some of the people...
but, you can't fool them all. And, the soma does wear off over time.

http://pissedoffcabbie.blogspot.com/2006/04/trouble-ahe...
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Bouvet_Island Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. There
aint an obvious way to deal with a conspiracy on this scale. If you people are right, we are already at war. In a war, it is seldom a good strategy to run towards the enemy's camp head on. You need to pick battles that you can win, and make the enemys fortifications not work. I'd say it is an about fair assessment that the 9/11 movement are not successful at their political strategy probably less than the research output that is rather limited as well. In fact I would say the strategy barely exist, Steven E. Jones can't have read his Kuhn recently.

To convince the public the exact opposite route as the current should be taken, feeding people only the best bits of evidence, present them as innocent mysteries and complain about bad quality work by the 9/11 commission rather than accusing it for crimes that they can't be realistically charged or prosecuted for. When you have made the parts of your case as solid as possible in the public or science community, you present the conclusion as an open question, or ideally produce it in people, then post your own conclusion piecemeal as replies to other people, debunking their errors while feeding correct facts that you "discover" and saying they are mystical. The conclusion should be so obvious that saying it out loud in the end is an almost unecessary thing.
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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
29. The Democrats


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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. heh heh.nt
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rastafan Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
32. newly released video from 9-11 Visibility
Exceptional discussion about this important topic.

Coincidentally, Jan Hoyer (previously of 9-11 Visibilty and 911Truth)
has recently released a new video and commentary discussing this
very issue. The obstacles that group faced getting their 9-11 message
out to in the peace activist and media community was beyond ridiculous.


http://digitalstyledesigns.com/pages/Thoughts.htm
"A newly released 911 truth movement video clip from Feb. 2004
shows challenges faced with the upcoming historic peace protest's
distribution of 9/11 Visibility Project's Stop the 911 Cover-Up signs."

"It is very interesting to consider the context of how much has changed
with the increased general public awareness, and how little has actually
changed with the peace movement's leaders' continued refusal to address
the critical issue that 9/11 was an inside job. It is way past time for
members of the peace community to demand that this situation change."

Five minute video
http://digitalstyledesigns.com/movies2/911VisSignPlans....

Related article: Regulated Resistance
http://www.newtopiamagazine.net/articles/30

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