Sibel Edmonds, 911, Drugs & Campaign Finance

[seemslikeadream]

Tuesday, 26 April 2005, 12:29 pm

Former FBI contract translator and whistleblower Sibel Edmonds and her attorneys were ordered removed from the E. Barrett Prettyman U.S. Courthouse so that a three-judge U.S. Court of Appeals panel could discuss her case in private with Bush administration lawyers.

...

Edmonds is appealing the Bush administration’s arcane use of "state secrets privilege," invoked last year to throw out her U.S. District Court lawsuit alleging retaliation for telling FBI superiors about shoddy wiretap translations and allegations that wiretap information was passed to the target of an FBI investigation. Given our multiple reports and numerous other interviews, Edmonds heard much more--enough to warrant public suppression of criminal evidence by a wholly Republican appeals court panel?


"Tom, I’m telling you that not a single newspaper covered what happened to me on Thursday when I went into court," said the exasperated translator, adding, " Ginsberg kicked everyone out, cut off my lawyer’s arguments and told us ‘we have questions to ask the government’s attorneys that you cannot hear.’ "

Criminal evidence in Edmonds’ explosive case is apparently getting too close to Washington officials, since the former contract linguist also told us she would not deny that "once this issue gets to be...investigated, you will be seeing certain people that we know from this country standing trial; and they will be prosecuted criminally," revealing the content of the FBI intercepts she heard indicates that recognizable, very high-profile American citizens are linked to the 911 attacks.

more
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00251.htm

[kypper]

1. This is so big...

and where's the outrage? Crickets churp.

[hector459]

74. So who is this country has enough money and courage to help this woman?

If she were a foreigner in one of the countries we oppose we would almost be ready to go to war to advance "freedom and democracy" and to fight against a "totalitarian government." At the very least is would get MSM coverage on the nightly cable "news" shows...especially FOX.

[chomskysright]

81. UH-HUH: Edmonds noted in RICO LAWSUIT: just filed:on behalf of WTC Janitor

Its 176 pages of the best novel you ever read:

Reading this feels a little like one is, for a brief moment in time, God, or perhaps Shakespeare, who can see how the Acts hang together when one sets the stage.

I called the attorney, Mr. Berg, today: he stated that Europeans had a much better grasp of the possibility of all of this; he is moving the information around. He stated that there are a few attorneys who have been working on this case and that people associated with their families have asked their names be kept off the document for fear of being harmed.

He asked that people support the matter by circulating the information. He was not aware that the 3 series pdf had been circulated to articbeacon.

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/24652.htm

[seemslikeadream]

85. WTC Rescue Hero Sues Bush and Others under RICO Statute

original thread for working links
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2732763



By: Philip J. Berg, Margaret Atheling Rowe
Published: Oct 23, 2004

On September 11, 2001, William Rodriguez, a maintenance worker at the World Trade Center in Manhattan, single-handedly rescued fifteen people. The only employee with the master key to the North Tower staircases, he led firefighters up the stairs, unlocking doors as he went, aiding in the evacuation of hundreds of additional people who, but for his efforts, might have perished. Although his job description did not include saving lives, Rodriguez re-entered the building three times after the first plane struck, and was the last person to exit the North Tower alive. He survived the collapse of the North Tower by diving beneath a fire truck to avoid the avalanche of concrete and steel. After onsite treatment for his injuries, Rodriguez plunged right back into rescue efforts at the site. At dawn the next morning, Rodriguez returned to Ground Zero from his home in Jersey City, to continue to aid in rescue efforts.

Later, Rodriguez became an unofficial spokesman for survivors, among other things helping to secure an amnesty for undocumented aliens, many of them Latinos, and in the creation of the World Trade Center Memorial Fund. Although he lost his job of 19 years and his means of livelihood — even falling into homelessness for a time — Rodriguez has continued in the three years since 9-11 to continue his work in honor of the heroes and the victims of that awful day, as president of the Hispanic Victims Group, Director of the 9/11 United Services Group, and member of the Family Advisory Council of the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation.

Now, this native of Puerto Rico and remarkable American hero is taking his 9-11 activism to an even higher level. He has commenced, as Plaintiff, a federal court lawsuit against George W. Bush, Richard B. Cheney, Donald H. Rumsfeld and others alleging that they and others were complicit in the 9-11 attacks, and either planned the attacks, or had foreknowledge of the attacks and permitted them to succeed, in order to exploit a “New Pearl Harbor” to launch wars against Afghanistan and Iraq. (The phrase “New Pearl Harbor” comes from a declaration of principles by the neo-conservative “Project for the New American Century,” in which it is proposed as an event needed to steel American public opinion to support the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, and U.S. military domination of the Middle East.)

Attorney Berg acknowledges that Rodriguez’s action will shock and offend many Americans. But he urges critics to read the detailed complaint, posted on the internet at www.911forthetruth.com, before forming conclusions. “The ‘Official Story’ of what actually took place on 9-11 is a lie,” Berg flatly maintains. “We do not pretend to have put together a full and definitive account of how, and by whom, the attacks were carried out. But information reported in mainstream media, and viewed in the light of common sense and the laws of physics, demonstrate that the ‘Official Story,’ examined closely, is not credible. The ‘Official Story’ contains an alarming number of inconsistencies and implausibilities. The major media have reported many of the raw facts, but have studiously avoided analysis, because doing so would reveal that the government is lying to us. The 9-11 Commission, a suspect collection of government and intelligence insiders, restated without question or examination all essential elements of the ‘Official Story’ of the actual events of 9-11. It failed almost completely to refute, or even to mention, the great body of evidence that suggests the ‘Official Story’ cannot be true, and it failed completely to hold anyone accountable. From the foregoing facts, it ought to be obvious that a cover-up, or a “limited hang-out” admitting only bureaucratic mistakes for which no one is to be held accountable, has taken place and is continuing.”

more
http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_14643.sht...

Update (06/15): Rodriguez "swears he saw United Airlines Flight 175 hijacker Mohand Alshehri in June 2001"

In a recent event by 9/11 Citizen's Watch, which got broadcasted on C|Span, William Rodriguez from the 9/11 Hispanic Victims Group and 9/11 United Services Group, claimed, he not only recognised suspicious movements from a floor under construction, some weeks before Sep11th, he also claimed, he saw one of the official Sep11th -"hijackers". Today Rodriguez testified for the 9/11 panel

June 8, submitted by 9/11 family members

"...I testified today for the 9/11 Commission. It was an experience to have the investigators listen and to actually concentrate on some of the problems with the building itself. I know we have been very vociferous about the construction and the problems with egress and escape.

Some of the statements I got were in the sense of why they did not speak to me before, and the need to continue interviews with survivors and first responders. When we spoke about the subpoena powers, I was told that they haven't issued any to actual survivors or first responders because they understand the emotional impact and the problems it had created for their families...


In my experience, I was able to set the record straight in a lot of statements and errors from the fire Dept. We talk about the radio problems, doors not opening up, vacant floors, debris on the stairwells and my interviews with the FBI about seeing one of the hijackers in the building 3 months before. In short, I expect to be called again..."


William Rodriguez -Hispanic Victims Group
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/print.php?s...

Board of Directors
Officers

William Rodriguez

William Rodriguez, formerly an American Building Maintenance employee for twenty years, was responsible for inspection and maintenance at the World Trade Center and held the master key for the stairs. He was the last person to leave the building on September 11 and has been credited with saving many lives.

For his efforts, he received the National Hero Award from the Senate of Puerto Rico. Since September 11, Mr. Rodriguez has been very active in all aspects of the relief efforts, including the memorial, the federal fund and the charities, as well as appearing before many government officials on such topics.

Mr. Rodriguez has also helped coordinate aid within the Hispanic community, organizing the Hispanic Victims Group, which is working with 150 families. He attended Sacred Heart University and lives in Jersey City, NJ.

http://www.9-11usg.org/article.asp?id=707&page=DIRECTOR

http://www.summeroftruth.org /

[KalicoKitty]

192. Kick

:kick:

[clem_c_rock]

118. Shut up man - you've been told it was Arabs who live in the lands

W/ the most oil - Now run along and be happy.

[rodeodance]

2. um.. she is into the Asscroft flying the private jet stuff also

from the article-towards the end:

....Attorney General John Ashcroft testified that he flew on a private jet to Milwaukee on the morning of September 11. Earlier reports indicated that he changed from a commercial jet to a private one due to reported terrorism "threat assessments" which government officials refuse to make public simply by redacting the "sources and methods" used in obtaining the intelligence. Commission members failed to ask Ashcroft to explain the contents of the threat assessments and why they influenced his decision to use a private jet.

[Frederik]

10. That is the caption to the photograph

...written by the good people at scoop.co.nz.

Sibel Edmonds has never brought up the subject of Ashcroft flying private jets and that has nothing to do with her case.

You didn't read the article very carefully, did you?

[rodeodance]

14. I know it was the caption-but difficult to determine who wrote what at

times. And yes I read it -if you must know!!

[rodeodance]

11. i had not realized that there may be illegal drugs involved.

....."Tom, I’m telling you that not a single newspaper covered what happened to me on Thursday when I went into court," said the exasperated translator, adding, " Ginsberg kicked everyone out, cut off my lawyer’s arguments and told us ‘we have questions to ask the government’s attorneys that you cannot hear.’ "

Criminal evidence in Edmonds’ explosive case is apparently getting too close to Washington officials, since the former contract linguist also told us she would not deny that "once this issue gets to be...investigated, you will be seeing certain people that we know from this country standing trial; and they will be prosecuted criminally," revealing the content of the FBI intercepts she heard indicates that recognizable, very high-profile American citizens are linked to the 911 attacks.

Edmonds implied that legislators and even lobbyists were benefiting from laundered narcotics proceeds in an earlier interview with the Baltimore Sun, "...this money travels. And you start trying to go to the root of it and it’s getting into somebody’s political campaign, and somebody’s lobbying. And people don’t want to be traced back to this money.".....

[Frederik]

18. Yes, what she alleges

is corroborated by what Daniel Hopsicker has found in his private investigation of the 9/11 hijackers, that several of them appears to have been involved in protected drug trafficking while in the US. A hot tip on one of the elected officials invoved: Jeb Bush.

The unprecedented steps the administration has taken to silence her indicates that what she knows is very damaging. If her case continues to be stalled, she should just tell the Washington Post everything and we'll have another Watergate.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

35. one of the elected officials invoved: Jeb Bush.

Not surprising if true... move along, nothing to see here... just business as usual, as it was when Mike Ruppert and John Kerry testified on the Iran Contra dealings... ho hum.

http://gnn.tv/videos/1/Crack_The_CIA

[Frederik]

38. I'm curious about what happens

next. If her case goes nowhere, she should really just spill the beans. What are they going to do, arrest her? The media will probably do their best to ignore her, but the important thing is that the truth gets out.

[burn the bush]

49. can't they decide it's treason and lock her up forever?

don't they make govt people sign some kind of thing agreeing to keep state secrets under the penalty of treason?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

57. They also make them swear to uphold the constitution of the United

States and to protect the country from enemies both foreign and domestic. I say she should spill the beans on the domestic enemies we now face who are hell bent on revising history, dissolving the constitution and doing whatever they please to whomever they please without apologies.

[burn the bush]

94. that's true

I like this group they've got going. It may bring more people out to talk about things they know too.

I totally believe Sibel. She's very smart. very brave.

[chomskysright]

82. Jeb knew of 9-11: see RICO LAWSUIT:

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/24652.htm

It is intriguing, and circumstantial proof of Enterprise foreknowledge of the 9-11
attacks, that on September 7, 2001, just four days before 9-11, the President’s brother Jeb Bush,
as Governor of Florida, issued an Executive Order (#01-261) delegating to the Adjutant General
of the state of Florida, “all necessary authority . . . to order members of the Florida National
Guard into Active Service.” Immediately after the collapse of the South Tower on 9-11,
Governor Jeb Bush signed Executive Order #01-262, declaring a state of emergency in Florida
that upon information and belief remained in effect for a year or longer, despite the fact that no
acts of terrorism have occurred in Florida....

[Frederik]

92. That Sept 7 Executive Order

is interesting, isn't it? Some coincidence.

[goforit]

113. mihop..........no questions asked.

[lala_rawraw]

187. Okay, enough with MIHOP... if

We continue to use code instead of truth, real language, the following will occur:

1). Conspiracy theorist use coded words = we are nuts
2). Other citizens have no clue what we are saying = ignorance
3). Big brother (concept of fear) watching = we communicate via fear

I don't mean you specifically goforit. I mean in general.

As for they let it happen, my speculation (my speculation, not reporting or suggesting solid proof of any sort) is that they MADE it happen. Letting something like that happen is highly unlikely given the amount of resources needed, the access given abroad as well as locally, and given the ever mounting evidence that even bypasses plausible denial. In other words, he knew and I agree with Rubicon on who actually controlled the festivities. I agree almost entirely with Mike Ruppert on what had happened, but I disagree with a few findings.

To really understand this, read Liberty Lobby case, read all of the compiled articles from b4 the "official version" and read a good Nixon administration biography. Once you do that, then read all about Iran-Contra and then Crossing the Rubicon as the icing. That tells you exactly who, how, why, etc. You won't ever have the little details like where did the passengers go. But you will have a picture of something truly ugly.

The sad part is that Ruppert thinks 9/11 was the crossing of the Rubicon. I disagree on that point. I think 9/11 was the boiling frog syndrome. The Rubicon was crossed in a series of events all known for their initials: JFK, RFK, MLK, MLX and with an excursion called Vietnam. Those murders marked the death of Democracy, we are now simply realizing it. That is my general speculation (again, just speculation).

Your speculation is .... include in response using real language please, let's just say what we mean:):)

[Frederik]

207. I agree

MIHOP and LIHOP is a false dichotomy anyway, there are degrees of complicity and assistance.

As for when the Rubicon was actually crossed, retired colonel L. Fletcher Prouty argues that a kind of Rubicon was crossed when Congress, in the Iran-Contras affair, accepted that North, Poindexter and the other crazies had been running their own thing, and that Reagan, Bush, Weinberger, Shultz etc. were innocent because they "didn't know". From that point, clandestine operations were completely detached from any kind of effective oversight or accountability. Which they arguably had been since Allen Dulles' days as DCI, but Iran-Contras cemented it.

But I agree that Vietnam was another Rubicon, before that. Prouty tells this story:

"I know this from friends of mine -- I've known General Abrams all my life -- he's from my hometown: when President Johnson told him that he was going to be the commander in Vietnam, President Johnson with his gung-ho attitude said, `Now Abe, you've got 550,000 men in the army out there -- all you need to do the job. You've got the strongest navy assembled in the world -- the 7th Fleet. And you've got an air force that has delivered more bombs than in all of World War II. Now by God, Abe, go out and do it.' I've been told that Abrams, or one of his immediate staff, turned to the President and said, `Mr. President, would you want to define the word it for us. What is it that if we do it will win that war from your position as our commander-in-chief?' The President put his arm around Abrams' shoulder and led him to the door of the Oval Office -- sent him Saigon. There was no it in the Vietnam War."

Just like there's no "it" in Iraq.

From an interview with Mort Sahl, 1968 (before the RFK, MLK assasinations):

ARGO: Why is the trial that Mr. Garrison's pursuing really the trial of the American people?

SAHL: Because we have to decide. Once the neo-fascists became bold enough to slay the President on the street, they showed their hand. They showed how arrogant they had become. Now it's a question of symptom. That crime was a national symptom. If we can turn our back on that, we will pay a terrible price. That will be the end of this democracy. As a matter of fact, it's been dying since Kennedy's death. We have to cleanse our soul. It's much the same as the French when they regained their national honor, not by framing Dreyfus, but by admitting that they did..

http://www.maebrussell.com/Mort%20Sahl/Mort%20Sahl%20-%20Argo.html

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. What an indictment on the Bush Administration.

If they knew there was (what we now know as) a red alert on September 11th, and they did nothing... Good God! Impeachment would be too good for him.

[NVMojo]

185. providing assistance to the deaths of 3000 innocent people and then

blaming on an innocent people in other country and leading to more deaths deserves ...the death penalty ...

[clem_c_rock]

119. kick

[Frederik]

3. This is getting explosive!

The Edmonds case is even more important than Gannon spending the night in the Lincoln bedroom.

In an exclusive interview on Saturday, we asked Edmonds if she would deny that laundered drug money linked to the 911 attacks found its way into recent House, Senate and Presidential campaign war-chests, according to what she heard in intelligence intercepts she was asked to translate.

"I will not deny that statement; but I cannot comment further on it," she told TomFlocco.com, in a non-denial denial.

This is BIG!
:woohoo:
stay out of small planes, Sibel!

[seemslikeadream]

4. Espionage and treason?

Edmonds has reported information about an FBI translator named Jan Dickerson whose husband, U.S. Air Force Major David Dickerson, belonged to a Turkish organization which was an investigative target of the FBI’s own counter-intelligence unit.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00251.htm

Whistlerblower Coming in Cold From The FBI

MUST READ

...the article mentions a woman named Melek Can Dickerson, a Turkish woman married to a major in the U.S. Air Force. The woman told Edmonds that she couldn't believe America was monitoring people who were their chief "persons of interest" because Dickerson and her husband had done favors for them...shopping...

"Ms. Edmonds has told the Judiciary Committee that soon after, Ms. Dickerson tried to establish social ties with her, suggesting they meet in Alexandria and introduce their husbands to each other.

When Sibel invited the visitors in for tea, she said, Major Dickerson began asking Matthew Edmonds if the couple had many friends from Turkey here in the U.S. Mr. Edmonds said he didn't speak Turkish, so they didn't associate with many Turkish people. The Air Force officer then began talking up a Turkish organization in Washington that he described, according to the Edmondses, as "a great place to make connections and it could be very profitable."

Sibel was sickened. This organization was the very one she and Jan Dickerson were monitoring in a 9/11 investigation. Since Sibel had adhered to the rule that an F.B.I. employee does not discuss bureau matters with one's mate, her husband innocently continued the conversation. Ms. Dickerson and her husband offered to introduce the Edmondses to people connected to the Turkish embassy in Washington who belonged to this organization. ..."My husband keeps thinking he's talking about promoting business deals," Ms. Edmonds later said of the encounter. "He has no idea the man is talking about criminal activities with some semi-legitimate front."

These are classic "pitch activities" to get somebody to spy for you, according to a Judiciary Committee staffer who investigated Ms. Edmonds' claims. ...The targets of that F.B.I. investigation left the country abruptly in 2002. Later, Ms. Edmonds discovered that Ms. Dickerson had managed to get hold of translations meant for Ms. Edmonds, forge her signature, and render the communications useless."

more
http://www.gailsheehy.com/9_11/9_11_art1_21.html


:hi:

[Frederik]

25. American Turkish Council

Based in Washington DC. This is probably the organization in question (she has hinted at it - the DoD mentioned the ATC in their correspondance relating to her case).

http://www.americanturkishcouncil.org/

It's apparently being used as a front for drugs and arms trade and private intelligence collection, at the same time as it also serves a legitimate purpose. Like she says, a "semi-legitimate" organization.

[Frederik]

58. "Golden Horn"

That's the biggest donors to the organization, I presume. Armaments industry well represented: Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, General Dynamics, United Technologies/Sikorsky, Northrop Grumman, General Electric, United Defense, General Atomics.

Chairman of the Board: Brent Scowcroft

http://www.balkanalysis.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=391
...aside from Sibel Edmonds’ legal crusade is the issue of persons and organizations she encountered whose part-time activities touch on things from arms and drugs trafficking to espionage and even terrorism. Some of these figures (such as Can and Doug Dickerson) have been publicly named, but the Department of Justice gag order on Sibel has prevented her from doing anything more than alluding to the other, and presumably bigger fish involved.

That said, a previously unreleased document from September 2002 may contain a key to unraveling the mystery at the heart of the case: who or what are the “semi-legitimate organizations” that Edmonds has cryptically referred to as being the major players behind the major organized crime rings whom Edmonds charges with endangering American national security?

On 7 August 2002, Sibel Edmonds launched a complaint with the US Air Force over the suspected illegal activities of USAF Major Douglas Dickerson and his wife, Turkish-born FBI translator Melek Can Dickerson (more information on them here).
(...)
Earlier today, Sibel Edmonds told us that, “…nobody has mentioned the DOD angle to this date.”
(...)
Therefore we thought it would be appropriate to publish this last letter in its entirety (see below). According to Edmonds, the correspondence can be published because it “…was never classified… and their responses sent via regular mail, thus, not classified either.”

While this letter mostly refers to long-known aspects of the case, there is one very striking reference which may shed light on a nagging mystery: who or what are the “semi-legitimate organizations” Edmonds has alluded to in the past?

According to the Edmonds team’s reply of 19 September, the USAF Inspector General’s letter had referred specifically to one American-Turkish Council, based in Washington, D.C., as being related to the Dickersons. For the Edmonds team, this was a very strange disclosure:

“…notably, in his letter of September 10th, Col. Worth states that OSI’s investigation focused on ‘Major Dickerson’s relationship with the American-Turkish Council.’ This statement is very troubling for a number of reasons. First, Ms. Edmonds never even mentioned the name of this organization in any of her communications with the DOD, DOD IG, Department of the Air Force IG, and AFOSI, concerning this matter.”

[Frederik]

59. More on ATC

"Operating tax-free and out of the media or watchdog spotlight is the most powerful "non-profit" association in the United States, the American Turkish Council (ATC). Like the thousands of associations operating inside the Washington, DC, Beltway, the ATC is chartered to provide "legal and ethical" venues for American-Turkish government and business interests, to meet face-to-face to improve business, security and cultural relations between the two countries.

The ATC, like other associations, has a dues structure and committee structure that includes a government relations or "educational" committee that lobbies the public and US government representatives on behalf of its members. But that's where the similarity ends."
(...)
"It's no surprise that it was in the decade of the 1990s, long out of the US government and working through private sector associations, that Brezinski's and corporate America's EuroAsia creation would be formalized and ultimately be realized. It all happened far sooner than expected thanks to an opportune breakdown in US security on September 11, 2001. Nonetheless, the center of gravity for it all has been the ATC and its affiliates in the association world."
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/021805Stanton/021805stanton.html

"It really is the same old story we've all read about for so many decades and features these recurring themes: the black market for nuclear weapons technology, drug trade and money laundering, lobbyists housed in powerful organization, espionage and bribes, and big political and business names. These murky matters are always classified by governments and business groups as Top Secret or Proprietary and always involve criminal activity on behalf of national security."
(...)
"Who would have thought that Sibel Edmonds would encounter a lot of archived and/or then current documentation flowing through the intelligence pipeline that exposed criminal activity across the board by an array of conniving characters. American, Turkish and Pakistani operations (and history), planned and unplanned, were, perhaps, uncovered by her in the brief but heady days of worldwide cross-intelligence agency sharing following 9-11. Imagine the treasure trove of finds!

The actors in this drama include cultural and semi-legitimate groups like the American Friends of Turkey/American Turkish Council (and affiliates and chapters); the Atlantic Council; American (CIA), Turkish (MIT) and Pakistan (ISI) intelligence agencies; Pentagon intelligence operatives like USAF Major Douglas Dickerson and Jan Malek Can Dickerson; former Turkish ministers like Prime Minister Mesut Yilmaz under investigation for corruption; Turkish-run companies like Giza Technologies of New Jersey, implicated and then cleared of WMD proliferation charges; and US officials Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld."
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/030905Stanton/030905stanton.html

[seemslikeadream]

68. Thanks Frederik - AMERICAN TURKISH COUNCIL

"semi-legitimate"

[chomskysright]

83. Treason and RICO lawsuit filed on behalf of WTC janitor:...

this guy is a bonafide American hero:

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/24652.htm

On 9-11,2 Rodriguez singlehandedly
rescued fifteen (15) persons from the WTC, and — as Rodriguez was the only person
at the site with the master key to the North Tower stairwells — he bravely led firefighters up the
stairwell, unlocking doors as they ascended, thereby aiding in the successful evacuation of
unknown hundreds of those who survived.....is believed to be the last person to exit the
North Tower alive, surviving the building’s collapse by diving beneath a fire truck.

[loudsue]

6. What do you expect when the mafia runs the government?

:applause: Stay safe, Sibel! :woohoo:

I hope EVERYTHING she knows eventually reaches the ears of every single American everywhere.

We'll have bush/cheney/rove workin' on the chain gang.

:kick:

[BamaBecky]

21. yes, I'm really concerned for her safety....really concerned....n/t

[clem_c_rock]

122. No doubt - lucky enough she's high enough profile w/ this case

It would be really difficult to have her suicided.

I'm kicking this fucker all day long.

[kypper]

5. Question...

Can Conyers, Kerry, Boxer, etc not do something about the obvious coverup here?

[seemslikeadream]

9. "very credible" by Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa

"We should have had orange or red-type of alert in June or July of 2001"
A former FBI translator told the 9/11 commission that the bureau had detailed information well before Sept. 11, 2001, that terrorists were likely to attack the U.S. with airplanes.

March 26, 2004 | A former FBI wiretap translator with top-secret security clearance, who has been called "very credible" by Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, has told Salon she recently testified to the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States that the FBI had detailed information prior to Sept. 11, 2001, that a terrorist attack involving airplanes was being plotted.

Referring to the Homeland Security Department's color-coded warnings instituted in the wake of 9/11, the former translator, Sibel Edmonds, told Salon, "We should have had orange or red-type of alert in June or July of 2001. There was that much information available." Edmonds is offended by the Bush White House claim that it lacked foreknowledge of the kind of attacks made by al-Qaida on 9/11. "Especially after reading National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice where she said, we had no specific information whatsoever of domestic threat or that they might use airplanes. That's an outrageous lie. And documents can prove it's a lie."

Edmonds' charge comes when the Bush White House is trying to fend off former counterterrorism chief Richard A. Clarke's testimony that it did not take serious measures to combat the threat of Islamic terrorism, and al-Qaida specifically, in the months leading up to 9/11.

Edmonds, who is Turkish-American, is a 10-year U.S. citizen who has passed a polygraph examination conducted by FBI investigators. She speaks fluent Farsi, Arabic and Turkish and worked part-time for the FBI, making $32 an hour for six months, beginning Sept. 20, 2001. She was assigned to the FBI's investigation into Sept. 11 attacks and other counterterrorism and counterintelligence cases, where she translated reams of documents seized by agents who, for the previous year, had been rounding up suspected terrorists.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/03/26/translator/index_np.html

[seemslikeadream]

15. There was specific information about use of airplanes

...

"But there was specific information about use of airplanes, that an attack was on the way two or three months beforehand and that several people were already in the country by May of 2001. They should've alerted the people to the threat we're facing."

Edmonds testified before 9/11 commission staffers in February for more than three hours, providing detailed information about FBI investigations, documents and dates. This week Edmonds attended the commission hearings and plans to return in April when FBI Director Robert Mueller is scheduled to testify. "I'm hoping the commission asks him real questions -- like, in April 2001, did an FBI field office receive legitimate information indicating the use of airplanes for an attack on major cities? And is it true that through an FBI informant, who'd been used for 10 years, did you get information about specific terrorist plans and specific cells in this country? He couldn't say no," she insists.

...

Litigation followed, and in October 2002, Attorney General John Ashcroft asked the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia to dismiss the Edmonds case, taking the extraordinary step of invoking the rarely used state secrets privilege in order "to protect the foreign policy and national security interests of the United States." Ashcroft's move was made at the request of Mueller.

During a 2002 segment on "60 Minutes" exploring Edmonds' initial charges of FBI internal abuses, Sen. Grassley was asked if Edmonds is credible. "She's credible and the reason I feel she's very credible is because

people within the FBI have corroborated a lot of her story," he said.
more
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/03/26/translator/index_np.html

[Frederik]

30. Wow, I haven't read that before

"This week Edmonds attended the commission hearings and plans to return in April when FBI Director Robert Mueller is scheduled to testify. "I'm hoping the commission asks him real questions -- like, in April 2001, did an FBI field office receive legitimate information indicating the use of airplanes for an attack on major cities? And is it true that through an FBI informant, who'd been used for 10 years, did you get information about specific terrorist plans and specific cells in this country? He couldn't say no," she insists."

Would this perhaps be the FBI informant that had two of the hijackers living in his house in San Diego? Who, as Daniel Hopsicker has uncovered, was connected to a covert operation in the San Diego area to get Middle Easterners into the US on false student visas? Who was always reported to be a professor, when he only had a phony PhD from a bogus university run by military/intelligence types and founded by a local Republican bigwig?

[chomskysright]

98. keep this in the ECHO CHAMBER: amazing how many people do not know:

just out: RICO lawsuit alleging complicity in 9-11:

I talked to the attny, Berg today: KICK IT:

http://www.911forthetruth.com/pdfs/Rodriguezvs.Bush%20.pdf

Phil Berg, attny: bloghttp://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/BergBlog.htm



".....Berg told the court bluntly: "If there was no government complicity in the 9/11 attacks, why have defendants lied repeatedly about abundant advance warnings?....

Berg added that Press Secretary Ari Fleischer also lied in a May 16, 2002, press statement when he announced: "The President did not receive information about the use of airplanes as missiles by suicide bombers. This was a new kind of attack that had not been foreseen."

Adding to the enormity of the lying, Berg cited a statement made by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld made to the entire nation on September 30, 2001:
"Never would it have crossed anyone’s mind that a commercial airline would be used as a missile. Usually a hijacker who takes an airplane, of course, wants to get someplace or wants to make a statement or wants to go on television or wants to hold hostages, but this is a distinctly different behavior pattern than we have seen previously, and now, obviously, something we have to be attentive to."

Further, Berg added that Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta also lied to the 9/11 Commission, on May 23, 2003, when he said: "I don’t think we ever thought of an aircraft being used as a missile. We had no information of that nature at all....."

(Until it was leaked to the press in May 2002, the Bush II Administration withheld
from the public the title of the CIA’s daily briefing to President Bush on August 6, 2001: “Bin
Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.”118) p. 87 of below document:
pp. 77 on, for about 10 pages, assoc w/ pdf, are a list of the various historical pieces re: Bush II administration lie re: 'we never imagined....'

[chomskysright]

99. Bush was specifically briefed August, 2001, not to mention....

anticipation by intelligence that this was always a possibility in light of many historical attempts across the globe:

THEY'RE PLAYING DUMB: DON'T STAND FOR IT:

http://www.911forthetruth.com/pdfs/Rodriguezvs.Bush%20.pdf

Phil Berg, attny: bloghttp://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/BergBlog.htm

76
the “Pentagon Mass Casualties Exercise” of October 24-26, 2000 was conducted from
the conference room of the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Jake Burrell, identified as a
64 Los Angeles Times, 12/12/2002.
65 Military District of Washington News Service, 11/03/2000, The Mirror, 05/24/2002.
77
member of the Pentagon Emergency Management Team, is quoted and said to have coordinated
similar exercises for four years.
180. US Medicine magazine reported that in May 2001, “
medical personnel had been trained” to respond to “an ersatz guided missile in the form of a
hijacked 757 airliner” crashing into the Pentagon.66

Also on 9-11, NORAD was conducting a periodic war game,, this one known as
“Vigilant Guardian.” Details have not been made public, but it is known that the scenario was
supposed to test “an imaginary crisis to North American Air Defense outposts nationwide.”72
According to one NORAD employee, “everybody” at NORAD initially thought that the real
hijackings on 9-11 were part of the exercise.73...

89
People tend to excuse the military for not promptly responding to the attacks of 9-11
because they have been led to believe that the only military alternative was to shoot down planes
carrying civilian passengers; but this is not the case. Standard military procedure when a plane
deviates off course (something air controllers know immediately) is to send up fighter planes to
locate the "lost" plane, fly beside it, peer into the windows to see what is going on, and try to
guide it to safety. None of this was done with any of the four hijacked planes, despite ample
time in each case. In the case of Flight 77, the military had nearly an hour to do it; yet fighters
were never sent up to accompany or communicate with the airliner before it crashed into the
Pentagon.

The simultaneous occurence of the two events (NORAD Vigilant Guardian drill and 9-11) could not have been mere coincidence; and without
their simultaneous occurrence, the hijacking attempt would have failed. How did the hijackers
know of the exercise? Plaintiff submits that the defendants were and could only have been
complicit in the deed.


24
The Court has jurisdiction over the action pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1331 (federal
question), 18 U.S.C. § 1964 (RICO), 18 U.S.C. § 2333 (Anti-Terrorism Act of 1991), 28 U.S.C.
§ 2201 et seq. (Declaratory Judgment Act), 18 U.S.C. § 2441 (War Crimes Act of 1996), 18
U.S.C. § 4 (Misprision of Felony statute) and 18 U.S.C. § 2382 (Misprision of Treason Statute).
Venue as to the several defendants is proper, pursuant inter alia to 18 U.S.C. § 1965(a) and/or 18
U.S.C. § 1965(b).

[chomskysright]

100. NORAD'S 'scalded ape' excuse: RICO lawsuit:

http://www.911forthetruth.com/pdfs/Rodriguezvs.Bush%20.pdf

Phil Berg, attny: bloghttp://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/BergBlog.htm

NORAD did nothing between 8:40
A.M., at which hour it admits receiving word that Flight 11 had been hijacked, for at least 57
minutes, until some time after the Pentagon was struck, at 9:37 A.M.171

F-15 fighters departing Otis as late as 8:52 A.M. could,
without undue effort, have reached New York in time to intercept Flight 175. The discrepancies
in NORAD’S (and Gen. Myers’) accounts are numerous, consequential, and highly suspect.

But for the fact that the Commission has
evidently accepted, without question, the dubious testimony from NORAD, and the major media
(while persisting in reporting some facts not consistent with the Official Story) has not
highlighted these facts or their implications, NORAD would have “a lot of explaining to do”
concerning its failure to get a fighter plane over Washington (and nearby Arlington, Virginia) in
the approximately 47 minutes it ought to have had for that task.

Supposedly, then, we are to believe that F-16s were scrambled from Langley to
pursue and intercept hijacked Flight 77, which had made a U-turn roughly where West Virginia
borders Kentucky, and was headed toward Washington, D.C. It was known that two planes had
been flown into the World Trade Center in New York City during the preceding 45 minutes; yet
the U.S. government, which admits to spending $40 billion annually on intelligence, was unable
to figure out: (1) that Flight 77 was not headed in the opposite direction from its scheduled route
to Los Angeles due to pilot error; (2) that whoever was in control of Flight 77 probably intended
to fly it into a landmark building; and (3) that Washington, D.C. -- the nation’s capital and site of
numerous landmark buildings, toward which Flight 77 was headed -- was the likely site of the
intended attack.

FAA Administrator Jane Garvey, “almost certainly after getting an okay from the
White House, initiated a national ground stop” at 9:26 A.M. That measure forbade takeoffs, and
required planes in the air to get down as soon as reasonable. The order – never implemented
since the Wright Brothers first flew – “applied to virtually every single kind of machine that can
take off – civilian, military, or law enforcement.”210 Note the inclusion of military planes.

Later, USA Today claimed that Ben Sliney, FAA National Operations Manager,
made the ground-stop decision. If true, this was indeed an audacious judgment call to have been
made by Mr. Sliney on his very first day on the job as the “chess master of the air traffic
system.”212

It appears NORAD was unwilling to use fighters from any but the two bases in the
Northeast sector that they directly controlled, even if there were other bases or fighters already in
the air that were closer. There was no legitimate reason for this.....Andrews personnel learned about the national emergency through news
coverage, and then a pilot called a friend in the Secret Service for more information.

[chomskysright]

84. baby, u don't want no RED ALERT: it means that Bush can shut the gov'tdown

see absolutely spell-binding lawsuit by PA lawyer, on behalf of his plaintiff:

THIS IS WHAT A RED ALERT WILL ENTAIL:


http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/24652.htm

"The extraordinary, police-state powers granted to FEMA and to other federal bodies
by Executive Orders (“EOs”) include but are not limited to the following:
a. To take over all modes of transportation, and control of highways and
seaports (EO 10990);
b. To seize and control the communications media (EO 10995);
c. To take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals (EO
10997);
d. To take over all food resources and farms (EO 10998);
e. To mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision
(slave labor) (EO 11000);
f. To take over all health, education and welfare functions (EO 11001);
g. To compile and to operate, acting through the Postmaster General, a
national registration of all persons (EO 11002);
h. To take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft (EO
11003);
i. To relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate
areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations (EO
11004);
j. To take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities (EO
11005);
k. To put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international
tensions and economic or financial crisis (through the Office of
Emergency Planning);
l. Through the Department of Justice, to enforce plans set out in Executive
Orders, institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative
liaison, control all aliens, operate penal and correctional institutions, and
advise and assist the President (EO 11310); and
m. To develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production
and distribution, energy resources, wages, salaries, credit and the follow of
money in U.S. financial institutions in any undefined national emergency.
(EO 11921) This Executive Order provides further that, when the
President declares a state of emergency, Congress cannot review the
action for six months.

General Frank Salzedo, then Chief of FEMA’s “Civil Security Division,” stated in a 1983
conference that he saw FEMA’s role as including the denial of “access to U.S. opinion” to
“dissident groups” in times of crisis. In other words, if the President declares a state of
emergency, the First Amendment is a dead letter, and FEMA’s role includes the suppression of
dissent.

[seemslikeadream]

89. maybe this guy just wouldn't play along?

CDP director placed on leave by Homeland Security IG
Associated Press

ANNISTON, Ala. - The director of the Center for Domestic Preparedness in Anniston has been placed on administrative leave pending an investigation by the Homeland Security Department inspector general's office, the agency says.

No details were available about the reasons for Marion Cain's removal Monday as the head of one of the nation's premier terrorist-response agencies.

CDP Associate Director Mike King has been named acting director, CDP communications director Kathy Wood told The Anniston Star for a story Saturday.

...

The CDP is Homeland Security's only federally chartered weapons of mass destruction training center. It began operations in June of 1998 as the only all-hazards training center, offering training on chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear weapons.
more
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/local/11238880.htm

[whatelseisnew]

7. this needs to be on the Greatest page n/t

[chomskysright]

86. kick!!

[G_j]

8. Sibel Edmonds, Other National Security Whistleblowers Form Coalition

http://balkanalysis.blogspot.com/2005/04/sibel-edmonds-other-national-security.html

Tuesday, April 26, 2005

Sibel Edmonds, Other National Security Whistleblowers Form Coalition to Continue the Fight for Reform, as Explosive New Info Revealed
Another eyebrow-raising press release that came in today. The celebrated Sibel Edmonds, in coalition with fellow whistleblowers like Coleen Rowley, John Vincent and Mike German of the FBI, is announcing a new "united front" in the form of a new pressure group, the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition (NSWBC).

In a very recent interview, Edmonds added a few more tantalizing details relevant to her case. She suggested (as best she could, due her gag order) that "...the content of the FBI intercepts she heard indicates that recognizable, very high-profile American citizens are linked to the 911 attacks.... implied that legislators and even lobbyists were benefiting from laundered narcotics proceeds in an earlier interview with the Baltimore Sun, '...this money travels. And you start trying to go to the root of it and it’s getting into somebody’s political campaign, and somebody’s lobbying. And people don’t want to be traced back to this money.'"

Edmonds was also quoted in the most recent interview as saying "'...there is direct evidence involving no more than ten American names that I recognized,' further revealing that ;some are heads of government agencies or politicians--but I don’t want to go any further than that,' as we listened in stunned silence."

Evidently deciding that joining forces in the battle to influence legislators in the fight for accountability and reform is the best way to go, Edmonds and Co. have scheduled an inaugural meeting for Thursday (details below). Especially noteworthy is the list of eminent and experienced former officials supporting them, including the grandaddy of the all, Daniel Ellsberg (see bottom for list).

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, April 26, 2005

Contact: Sibel Edmonds, [phone], [email protected]



PRESS ADVISORY

National Security Whistleblowers Coalition:

Congress, Whistleblower Protection & Accountability

What: An unprecedented group of national security whistleblowers have formed a united front as the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition (NSWBC). They will collectively attend two bipartisan congressional meetings today to demand that Congress act to end government retaliation against those who expose national security blunders, that Congress hold hearings into the federal government’s actions against whistleblowers, and that Congress act to require ‘individual accountability’ for retaliation against whistleblowers. The congressional meetings will be followed by a press conference featuring speakers from the NSWBC and guest speakers.



Speakers: Sibel Edmonds, Former Language Specialist, FBI

Coleen Rowley, Retired Agent and former division counsel, FBI

John Vincent, Veteran Special Agent, FBI

Mike German, Veteran Special Agent, FBI

Russ Tice, Senior Intelligence Analyst & Action Officer, NSA

Jesselyn Radack, Former Counsel, DOJ


Guest Speakers: Rep. Edward J. Markey (D-MA)

Mark Zaid, attorney, Krieger Zaid LLC

Professor William Weaver, University of Texas

Danielle Brian, Director, Project on Government Oversight (POGO)

Tom Devine, Legal Director, Government Accountability Project (GAP)

Dan Ellsberg, Founder, Truth Telling Project


Date: Thursday, April 28

Time: 1:30 PM- 3:00PM

Location: 122 Cannon House Office Building, SE, Washington, DC



Background: Since the September 11th terrorist attacks, whistleblowers have felt compelled to come forward in greater numbers to address our nation’s security weaknesses – in fact almost 50% more have sought protection annually under the Whistleblower Protection Act since that terrible event. However, patriotic truth-tellers across a variety of federal agencies have no protection against retaliation when they blow the whistle. Today, the federal government’s policies support and reinforce wrongdoers who would seek to silence whistleblowers by demoting them, taking away their security clearances, or firing them. In recent days that point was illustrated in the case of FBI Special Agent Robert Wright, who has been critical of the FBI’s efforts to pursue terrorists. Without whistleblower protections, agencies will continue to quash truth tellers and national security weaknesses will be allowed to fester underneath the growing cloak of secrecy.



Anderson, Mick, Former Senior Advisor for Policy, DOJ,
Bittler, Thomas, Training Coordinator, TSA-DHS,
Carman, John, Former Senior Inspector, U.S. Customs,
Carson, Joe, Nuclear Safety Engineer, DOE
Chambers, Theresa, Former National Park Service Police Chief,
Costello, Edward J. Jr., Former Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI,
Cole, John M., Former Veteran Intelligence Operations Specialist, FBI,
Coleman, Marsha Adebeyo, Senior Policy Analyst, EPA,
Conrad, David “Mark”, Retired Agent in Charge, Internal Affairs, U.S. Customs,
Cruse, Larry, Army Intelligence Analyst, DOD,
Czarkowski, Carol, Navy-DOD,
Dew, Rosemary, Veteran Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI
Dzakovic, Bogdan, Former Red Team Leader, FAA,
Edmonds, Sibel, Former Language Specialist, FBI
Ellsberg, Dan, Former Special Assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense (ISA), DOD,
Elson, Steve, Veteran Agent, FAA,
Fogg, Matthew F., Chief Deputy US Marshal, (INA),
Foley, Theresa, Special Agent, FBI,
Forbes, David, Aviation, Logistics and Govt. Security Analysts, Boyd Forbes, Inc.,
German, Mike, Former Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI,
Goodman, Melvin A., Former Senior Analyst/ Division Manager, CIA; Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy,
Graf, Mark, Former Security Supervisor & Derivative Classifier, DOE,
Graham, Gilbert, Veteran Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI
Jenkins, Steve, Intelligence Analyst, NGIC, US Army
Johnson, Manny, Former Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI
Kleiman, Diane, Former Special Agent, US Customs,
Kwiatkowski, Karen U., Lt. Col. USAF (ret.), Veteran Policy Analyst-DOD,
Larkin, Lynne A., Former Operations Officer, CIA,
Lewis, Linda, Current Emergency Program Specialist (WMD), FSIS- USDA
Lau, Lok, Former Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI
MacMichael, David, Former Senior Estimates Officer, CIA,
McGovern, Raymond L., Former Analyst, CIA,
Nunn, Sandy, Former Special Agent, US Customs,
Pahle, Theodore J., Senior Intelligence Officer (Ret), DIA,
Radack Jesselyn, Former Counsel, DOJ,
Rowley, Coleen, Retired Special Agent and Former Division Counsel, FBI,
Sarshar, Behrooz, Retired Language Specialist, FBI,
Spaulding, Kerry, Veteran Agent, FAA
Sullivan, Brian F., Special Agent, Risk Program Management Specialist, FAA,
Tice, Russ, Senior Intelligence Analyst & Action Officer, NSA,
Tortorich, Larry J., Retired Naval Officer, US Navy & Dept. of Homeland Security/TSA,
Turner, Jane, Veteran Special Agent, FBI,
Vincent, John, Veteran Special agent, Counterterrorism, FBI
Walp, Glenn, PhD, Former Office Leader of the Office of Security Inquiries, Los Alamos National Lab, DOE,
Wehrly, Dot, Veteran Special Agent (Current), FBI,
Whitehurst, Dr. Fred, (Retired) Supervisory Special Agent/Laboratory Forensic Examiner, FBI,
Woo, Robert, Former Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI,
Wright, Ann, Col. US Army (ret.); and Former Foreign Service officer
Wright, Robert, Veteran Special agent, Counterterrorism, FBI
Zipoli, Matthew J., Former Special Response Team (SRT) Officer, DOE,
posted by Balkanalysis Blog Editor @ 4/26/2005 06:58:00 PM

[neohippie]

12. this is bigger than watergate and no press coverage

where is the so-called liberal media?

[Frederik]

39. It's too hot to handle

It's a can of worms. If they open it there's no way of closing it.

[G_j]

69. put in the untouchable file

along with the CIA and drug running and other manifestations of organized crime on steroids.
If we aren't vigilant this will go the way of the real story behind Iran/Contra. Notice that despite more criminal indictments than any other other Admin. Reagan is celebrated by the MSM as a hero.
The media is NOT going to expose the "Mafia" branch of the government.
The complete blackout on Edmonds is evidence of how real and explosive this is.

[seemslikeadream]

70. It's like Fahrenheit 451

We must memorize the books that won't be written and retell the story to anyone that will listen.

[Al-CIAda]

108. Yes, very astute n/t

[Al-CIAda]

42. Where is Air America? Where is the alternative media?

Where is fucking ANYBODY?

[chomskysright]

87. hammer-on DU-ers:

[EVDebs]

124. Proof positive of the perpetuation of Operation Mockingbird

CIA media manipulation project.

[EVDebs]

29. I was hoping to see Indira Singh, whistleblower on Ptech

Ptech, the Saudi software firm with 9-11 FAA and intell access. When you consider the Wargames (Vigilant Warrior etc.) that the general public knows nothing about, this makes LIHOP more and more a possibility.

[Frederik]

65. Yes, that's an interesting case too

She worked for JP Morgan Chase, didn't she? If I remember correctly, she was planning on buying their software when she learned that they were linked to terrorism. Ptech has also been rumoured to be a CIA cut-out. Whether that is rue or not, this terrorism-linked Saudi software company specializing in artificial intelligence applications sold software to and did work for the FAA and virtually every other government agency. That should be cause for concern.

[clem_c_rock]

116. Let's try MIHOP

The official version is based ENTIRELY on thousands of ridiculous coincidences that ARE BASICALLY IMPOSIBLE.

Another magic bullet theory.

[EVDebs]

123. Thanks, I stand corrected clem.

Whether by being deliberate -- or just through incompetence -- the result, it cannot be denied, is identical. I agree with you that the coincidence of the wargames, the Ptech involvment, the setup of the lack of curiosity by FBI higher ups and definitely not the lower ranks...all point to MIHOP (that is, Make it happen on purpose) not as I said, LIHOP (Let it happen on purpose).

Of course the mission 28 pages of the 'official report' and the Edmonds, Singh, cases...only add more credence to the MIHOP.

Again, I admit my mistake. I just wish more guys like Richard Clarke would do same.

[G_j]

50. I noticed Lt. Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski is on this list

(Perhaps it will be women who finally bring them down.)



http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/01/12_405.html

The Lie Factory

Late last year, a special Mother Jones investigation detailed how, only weeks after 9/11, the Bush administration set up a secret Pentagon unit to create the case for invading Iraq. Here is the inside story of how they pushed disinformation and bogus intelligence and led the nation to war.

By Robert Dreyfuss and Jason Vest

January/February 2004 Issue

It's a crisp fall day in western Virginia, a hundred miles from Washington, D.C., and a breeze is rustling the red and gold leaves of the Shenandoah hills. On the weather-beaten wood porch of a ramshackle 90-year-old farmhouse, at the end of a winding dirt-and-gravel road, Lt. Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski is perched on a plastic chair, wearing shorts, a purple sweatshirt, and muddy sneakers. Two scrawny dogs and a lone cat are on the prowl, and the air is filled with swarms of ladybugs.

So far, she says, no investigators have come knocking. Not from the Central Intelligence Agency, which conducted an internal inquiry into intelligence on Iraq, not from the congressional intelligence committees, not from the president's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board. All of those bodies are ostensibly looking into the Bush administration's prewar Iraq intelligence, amid charges that the White House and the Pentagon exaggerated, distorted, or just plain lied about Iraq's links to Al Qaeda terrorists and its possession of nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons. In her hands, Kwiatkowski holds several pieces of the puzzle. Yet she, along with a score of other career officers recently retired or shuffled off to other jobs, has not been approached by anyone.

Kwiatkowski, 43, a now-retired Air Force officer who served in the Pentagon's Near East and South Asia (NESA) unit in the year before the invasion of Iraq, observed how the Pentagon's Iraq war-planning unit manufactured scare stories about Iraq's weapons and ties to terrorists. "It wasn't intelligence‚ -- it was propaganda," she says. "They'd take a little bit of intelligence, cherry-pick it, make it sound much more exciting, usually by taking it out of context, often by juxtaposition of two pieces of information that don't belong together." It was by turning such bogus intelligence into talking points for U.S. officials‚ -- including ominous lines in speeches by President Bush and Vice President Cheney, along with Secretary of State Colin Powell's testimony at the U.N. Security Council last February‚ -- that the administration pushed American public opinion into supporting an unnecessary war. ..more..

---------


http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2003/Kwiatkowski-Pentagon-Kinght-Ridder31jul03.htm

Career Officer Does Eye-Opening Stint Inside Pentagon
KAREN KWIATKOWSKI / Ohio Beacon Journal 31jul03

[chomskysright]

194. YES INDEED: Bush II cherry-picked the truth: SEXED IT UP...

as the British described the matter.

[chomskysright]

195. and office of Vice-President refused to circulate information:

This might explain the level of interest in the CIA taken by the Office of the Vice President. In any case, I personally witnessed several cases of staff officers being told not to contact their counterparts at State or the National Security Council because that particular decision would be processed through a different channel. This cliquishness is cause for amusement in such movies as Never Been Kissed or The Hot Chick. In the development and implementation of war planning it is neither amusing nor beneficial for American security because opposing points of view and information that doesn't ``fit'' aren't considered.


http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2003/Kwiatkowski-Pentagon-Kinght-Ridder31jul03.htm

[chomskysright]

196. this insider woman's information is incredibly damning:...

The answers had been heavily crafted by the Pentagon, and to me, they were remarkably inadequate, given the late stage of the game. I suggested to my boss that if this was as good as it got, some folks on the Pentagon's E-ring may be sitting beside Hussein in the war crimes tribunals.

[chomskysright]

197. Pentagons E-Ring may find themselves in war crimes tribunal:

Nor have the key decision-makers in the Pentagon been forced to account for the odd set of circumstances that placed us as a long-term occupying force in the world's nastiest rat's nest, without a nation-building plan, without significant international support and without an exit plan. Neither may ever be required to answer their accusers, thanks to this administration's military as well as publicity machine, and the disgraceful political compromises already made by most of the Congress. Ironically, only Saddam Hussein, buried under tons of rubble or in hiding, has a good excuse.

[G_j]

213. the Office of Special Plans

(from the Mother Jones article linked above)

[Just Me]

13. I've heard it said that, the one who persists, prevails.

But, this is f*cking ridiculous!!!

THIS story should be splattered all over the dang place,...it should be EVERYWHERE!!!!

[0007]

17. A very powerful article. Thank you seemslikeadream.

I missed Edmond's documentary the other night when it was on Link TV -
Do you have any idea where I could pick up a copy?

When we pressed Edmonds as to whether she would deny that FBI Assistant Director Dale Watson had prior knowledge of the 911 attacks, she quickly said, "no comment," carefully adhering to her judicial gag order--and not revealing all she knows.


Dale Watson, head of the FBI's counter-terrorism division

"Watson came under scrutiny when we attended one of the 911 Commission Hearings when Richard Clarke, former Bush Administration National Coordinator for Counterterrorism for the National Security Council (NSC), was asked "Who gave the final approval for the bin Laden family to leave the country without being interviewed?"

Clarke answered that it could have been the "Inter-Agency Crisis Management Group, but most likely it was the White House Chief of Staff's office or the State Department." http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/index.htm>

When Commissioner Tim Roemer asked "why the Saudis were allowed to leave the country, who was on the planes, how many, and why the decision was made," Clarke said the government "feared for their lives...some of them were bin Laden family members, and the Saudi embassy requested their evacuation."

During testimony Clarke told Roemer "I refused to approve the request. I passed it on to Dale Watson and the flight was approved....I don't think they were ever interviewed in this country." Only subpoenaed transcripts and/or video would negate Clarke's assertion.

Dale Watson, who Clarke intimated as the sponsor of the FBI-approved flights and the decision not to interview bin Laden family members and other Saudi royals or citizens, was the former FBI Executive Asst. Director for Counter-Terrorism and Counter-Intelligence."

snip......


http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00251.htm

[Frederik]

20. Dale Watson

Dale Watson, who Clarke intimated as the sponsor of the FBI-approved flights and the decision not to interview bin Laden family members and other Saudi royals or citizens, was the former FBI Executive Asst. Director for Counter-Terrorism and Counter-Intelligence."

"Counter"-terrorism my ass...

[seemslikeadream]

26. Terrorism Counter, isn't that's where you go to buy terrorists

[Just Me]

33. Are those former CIA ops, perchance?

The corporocrat-invested ones, I mean. :shrug:

[seemslikeadream]

24. Hey there buddy I didn't know about that documentary

I'll have to look around for it.

What the hell is going on 0007? You know there's got to be plenty of people in Washington that know the truth. How is it gonna take?

:hi:

[0007]

27. The documentary was on Direct TV (Channel 375) Link TV

I believe it was last Thursday. It came on around my bed time at 11 o'clock (CST) and I fell asleep by accident.

I guess I should contact Link TV!

:hi:

[0007]

32. I think I'm mistaken about the Sibel Edmonds Documentary.

I believe it was on new revealed facts on 911. I just contacted Link TV, when I hear back I'll you know. I'm sorry!

[seemslikeadream]

36. Bet you're thinking of this David Ray Griffin 911 and American Empire

htuttle got it for us. You can watch it here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x37300

[0007]

37. Thank you man, I owe you one!

[nolabels]

53. I sure many others were fear for their life too

Please tell me the last few years were really just a bad dream x(



http://www.antiwar.com/doverimages/gallery3.htm

[laylah]

19. When will our

knee-pad wearing media get the F*CK up and do their jobs! I am sick!

Jenn

[Gregorian]

22. When telling lies no longer pays.

Unfortunately, telling the truth doesn't always favor their proponent.
I guess another way to put it would be, when there is no more politics in media. Solve that, and the truth would prevail. I'm no expert. I'm just spouting what seems right to me.

[agincourt]

77. It's not a free press,

If they did a fraction of their jobs, the corporate ass-hole CEOs whom work for Bush, would fire them. They have to wear knee-pads for Bush to keep their jobs or they're out like Dan Rather.

[MinneapolisMatt]

23. I have a question

Do other people know everything she knows? I'm just worried something might "happen" to her (please God I hope not), and I hope she has everything down and stashed somewhere.

I guess her lawyers would know everything, so I pretty much just answered my own question LOL!

Anyway, I hope the public gets to hear all of it. I know I want to know.

-Matt

[BamaBecky]

28. Hi 'seems like a dream'.....ANOTHER GOOD POST !!!!!!

Here are two more good articles....from last year.....


Sibel Edmonds: Still Silenced, But Why?


Former FBI Translator Sibel Edmonds Calls Current 9/11 Investigation Inadequate





:yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[seemslikeadream]

43. BamaBecky YOU ROCK!!

[EVDebs]

31. Anyone ever read Renata Adler's article "In Search of Real Nixon Scandal"

from the Dec 1976 Atlantic Monthly ? It shows clearly that offshore drug money laundered into the US and going into campaigns should have been investigated back during the Watergate scandal. It came close with the House committee she was a lawyer with looking into it, I think it was Wright Patman's, but when the banking investigation got 'too close' things shut down.

The whole tie-in with Alfred McCoy's "The Politics of Heroin", and Ambassador Graham A. Martin (Thailand, Italy, So.Vietnam) would make another interesting investigation.

Needless to say this has been going on for a long long time. Foreign sourced campaign money, as in the little noted footnote in "All The President's Men" -- about Chilean investors money coming back to US via a Mexican bank, I think it's p. 32 or 36 in the paperback version-- should have made following the money easier, but no one really did. The CIA wouldn't have had money used in Chile with anti-Allende operations coming back to be used on Nixon's campaign to become 'news', now, would it ?

The whole off-the-books CIA campaign funding comes through the original Meyer Lansky Cuba operation. When Castro blew that they went fully to SE Asia. Shoot William 'Wild Bill' Donovan was a Thailand ambassador in the early '50s. Not too difficult to figure out what was running out of Chiang Mai ! To fund .... what ? And you can be sure Congress didn't authorize any of that off the books unconstitutionally funded ops, but would like a cut...

[Daphne08]

52. Do this concern Bebe Rebozo?

[Frederik]

72. Nothing new under the sun

This goes all the way back to the opium trade which laid the foundation for the wealth of the "Boston brahmins".

McCoy's book is seminal on this subject. Haven't read Adler's article, it sounds intersting.

[chomskysright]

176. the funnels the drugs in order to keep the clandestine efforts fueled....

yes, i believe it. used to not ....but given some interesting investigative reporting over past several years....CA guy who 'suicided'....I believe it.

[jasmeel]

34. Let's media blast this story!! n/t

[Al-CIAda]

40. State Dept. Quashed 9/11 Links To Global Drug Trade

State Dept. Quashed 9/11 Links To Global Drug Trade
 -FBI Whistleblower

Sibel Edmonds- FBI Whistleblower, interview
SE: Everything – from drugs to money laundering to arms sales. And yes, there are certain convergences with all these activities and international terrorism.
CD: So with these organizations we're talking about a lot of money –
SE: Huge, just massive. They don't deal with 1 million or 5 million dollars, but with hundreds of millions.
CD: From your previous testimony and the examples I want to bring up next, it would seem that organized crime with terrorist links is really holding the reins inside powerful governments, even the American one. No?
SE: That may be, but I don't know. I didn't get high enough up on the ladder to find out. With all of this suspicious and unprecedented "state secrets" obstructionism from Ashcroft, it might seem that way, but I don't have any direct information.
CD: But what do think, within departments such as the Pentagon and the State Department. Do you suspect certain high officials may be profiting from terrorist-linked organized crime?
SE: I can't say anything specific with regards to these departments, because I didn't work for them. But as for the politicians, what I can say is that when you start talking about huge amounts of money, certain elected officials become automatically involved. And there are different kinds of campaign contributions – legal and illegal, declared and undeclared.
CD: Could this apparent toleration of dangerous criminal groups in the midst possibly be interpreted to mean that American policy is driven by the "ends justify the means" philosophy?
SE: But how are the ends possibly met by such activities? To this day, I just can't see how. What is happening does not benefit 99.9 percent of Americans – just a very small elite.
I'm no expert, but from what I have personally seen I can say that our national security is being compromised every day, because important investigations are being stopped, and potentially important clues are being overlooked. It's absolutely incredible that even after 9/11, certain individuals, foreign businessmen and others, among others, are still escaping scrutiny.
Okay, perhaps talking about the pre-9/11 world they could get away with saying "we didn't know," but to continue doing so – I mean, what if we are attacked by nuclear or chemical weapons, what will be their next excuse? That "we didn't know" it could happen? Come on! I can prove they are lying, because they know."

http://www.breakfornews.com/Sibel-Edmonds-Story.htm

[nolabels]

54. Here is an thread on that

State Dept. Quashed 9/11 Links To Global Drug Trade
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=610235

[Frederik]

41. Kick

and recommendation for greatest.

:hi:

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Auntie Bush]

44. This is very interesting and scary stuff!

I hope SE writes a book. But we need the information now...this can't wait!

[Beam Me Up]

45. Yes, this is far more important than whether any of us "hate" the other.

Treason and espionage at the highest levels of state masquerading under the cloak of national security. Mass murder, war crimes and crimes against humanity. These are no ordinary "criminals". They have the wealth, the power and the means to do this and get away with it. So far they HAVE gotten away with it.

Anyone who hasn't paused before the awesomeness of the scheme hasn't 'gotten' it yet. The entire federal government is corrupted from the inside out. The Executive, members of congress, the media and the military are implicated.

As I see it, the ONLY way this country can survive is to bring out the full truth of this matter--may the heavens fall. Something modelled along Truth and Reconciliation may be our only hope.

[Frederik]

63. You're absolutely right

"Anyone who hasn't paused before the awesomeness of the scheme hasn't 'gotten' it yet."

Sibel Edmonds' spring 2005 offensive
FBI shields Pakistan/Turkey nuclear weapons development, drug trade, Cheney, Rumsfeld
by John Stanton
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/030905Stanton/030905stanton.html
"It's all about recovering the shattered remnants of accountability in the USA, which are as tough to find as an honest statement from Republicans and Democrats running the US government."

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/31/1616221
"Again, not only counter-terrorism, but counter-intelligence and criminal investigations. During this short tenure that I had over there, I became aware of several investigations that were ongoing investigation dating back to a year or -- some of them actually years before 9-11 that contained significant amount of information about various activities. I would like to emphasize again, we are talking about money laundering activities directed toward these terrorist activities. We are looking at counter-intelligence activities, so, as I said it, is not categorized under counter-terrorism. This information was pouring in dating back as early as 2000."
(...)
AMY GOODMAN: Sibil Edmonds, what do you think would have happened if anything that you translated after September 11 had been translated fully before? And accurately?

SIBEL EDMONDS: I cannot confidently answer this question because in fact there were information that were translated very precisely and accurately before. And somehow having that information did not achieve anything, either. (...) My question is how about the ones that we had before? How about the information we had before that were pretty specific and they were pretty accurate, and they came from real reliable sources, assets. What happened to that information?"
(...)
"And there's so much that the public just simply doesn't know."

[Beam Me Up]

71. Thanks for those links, Frederik. Very important information! n/t

[Al-CIAda]

46. .

[Nevilledog]

47. Why can't she go outside this country to spill the beans?

There may be a simple answer to this... and I'm just to tired to think why she can't go to a media source outside of this country. She has to realize at this point that she will get no satisfaction in the court system in the U.S. Does she not have dual citizenship elsewhere? I'm guessing she'd have to leave the country, but would that be enough to protect her from retaliation? Just wondering.

[cascadiance]

75. The problem with that is then she might be more likely to get "offed"...

They'll probably send some hit people out to off her, and then blame it on "fringe terrorist groups" she was watching and Bushco can wash their hands of taking blame for not providing her adequate security.

Here at least one can blame poor protection on our government, if not the act of killing her itself.

[Frederik]

80. Her sister got arrested

in Turkey, for no apparent reason. So I think she's well advised to not go there, at least.

[lovuian]

48. First I think the reason she is alive is the information is

known and she has told many people... in other words killing her would only confirm her story...

Our system is failing us and how it is
Is by delaying the truth so the bad guys can get away with more bad stuff!!!

I think this is another reason why Asscroft left the FBI!!!

he blew it!!!

[ngGale]

51. This could bring down the whole corrupt system if...

the media would pick it up and run with it. This would be a perfect time for the DU to be used. Since they like to use us to beat up on.
Y'all hanging around in the media, blow this one!:think:

[mogster]

55. Recommended! n/t

[althecat]

56. Hi dream like one.. rung C-Span lately?

Great Post BTW...

:)

[seemslikeadream]

67. SCOOPIE! Where have ya been?

That Scoop Independent News is a GREAT place, isn't it?

Me nga taonga o te wa,E rahui i te pai

[althecat]

103. Lurking as you do....

As for Scoop we do our best...

Kia Kaha & Keep on Dreaming
Al

[Lochloosa]

60. Kick this to the F********* MOON! n/t

[SheepyMcSheepster]

61. kick! thanks for posting

one can only hope that one day the truth, whatever it is, gets out.

Sibel is a very brave person.

[chomskysright]

88. kick kick KICK!

[MontageOfFreedom]

62. Who's willing to bet that one of these citizens will probably be....

..House Majority Leader Tom DeLay singing like a canary, along with now retired Attorney General John Ashcroft.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

64. Please sign the petition for release of Sibel Edmond's testimony on 9/11

please sign the petition here: http://www.justacitizen.com/

here is a link to spooked911's thread that made me aware of this petition. (also i blatantly cut and pasted his subject line :hi: )

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3550825&mesg_id=3550825&page=

[chomskysright]

90. Phil Berg, attny: web site: w/ Edmund info:RICO LAWSUIT

http://www.911forthetruth.com/pdfs/Rodriguezvs.Bush%20.pdf

[chomskysright]

91. so, add Rodriguez to the Edmunds info:

http://www.911forthetruth.com/pdfs/Rodriguezvs.Bush%20.pdf

Broadly described, Defendants’ paramount (but by no means its only) motive in
orchestrating the 9-11 attacks was to obtain a “blank check” to conduct wars of aggression, to
consolidate economic and political power by the seizure of the oil fields of Iraq and a right-ofway
for a natural gas pipeline...

16
It is further confirmed as the most plausible, or even the only rational,
explanation as to why the Bush Administration effected a massive reconfiguration of the federal
government — conjoining many agencies into a new “Department of Homeland Security” - and
then proceeded to starve it for funding, doing almost nothing to truly secure the homeland from
terrorist threats from afar, while doing much to attack freedom at home, while and aggressively
and unlawfully pursuing empire overseas7.....

[chomskysright]

97. KICK! almost 10,000 signers!!

[chlamor]

66. Nominated

thx SLD.

[cascadiance]

73. Are there any t-shirts or bumper stickers out there for her?

I've looked on her site, justacitizen.org, and cafepress.com, but can't find anything. I know that she herself isn't looking to profit from her issues, and is probably not wanting to be directly involved with anything that would get her more direct attention.

But it seems like if we can get some bumper stickers or t-shirts, mugs, etc. out there, to help people ask questions that they should be in society who don't even have her on her radar screen.

Something like:

---------------------
Sibel Edmonds
Do you know who she is?

You should if you don't want to repeat
Watergate or something worse!
---------------------

Maybe also championing her newer whistleblower's movement she's got going too.

Or doss anyone else think that this isn't a good idea of giving her more publicity at this point which might put her life more at risk!

I'm all for putting up a cafepress.com site, and have proceeds go to her whistleblowers' group.

[cascadiance]

76. One strange thing I noticed while googling for her daily last year...

Was when the Israeli spy was exposed in Washington, that suddenly for a few weeks there was nothing, I mean NADA of news coverage of her that would turn up on Google search hits. Not even alternative press postings. And there was plenty of news on her right up until they found out about that agent. Coincidence?

There was at least one web site that speculated that she may have some heritage with Israel (since Turkey has had good relations with Israel in the past). She was prohibited to talk about her "native country". It's rather obvious from looking at her public history that she lived in both Iran and Turkey before moving here. What isn't so obvious is if she might have an Israeli connection or not. If it is an Israeli connection and there are connections to drugs, etc. that could be why there's huge amounts of worry in Washington of this story getting out.

[Frederik]

78. Doubt there's anything there

The country in question is Turkey, I think that is pretty clear. She translated documents, wire-tap recordings etc in Turkish and also in Azerbaijani. One of the key countries in the "golden crescent" heroin trade and in illicit arms trade.

There's usually weeks or months between each press story on her, sadly, unless something special has happened. So I really don't find that suspicious.

So I think the Israeli spy was a coincidence, but who knows. She always stresses that people from several countries are involved, these are trans-national extra-legal networks and Israel has a key position in global arms trade after all.

I think there's plenty in this story that causes Washington huge amounts of worry, Israeli connection or not!

[Minstrel Boy]

79. Turkey and Israel have close intelligence ties,

and Mossad assets have been implicated in the international drug trade.

[cascadiance]

93. I don't want to necessarily say it's Israel...

... and I'm sure that there are plenty of crackpots out there that would jump at anything to point a finger at Israel.

But then again, with at least two cases of espionage against us, situations like the U.S.S. Liberty incident, Israel is by no means an innocent party in our history over there, and incidents involving them do seem to be covered up a lot more too.

The following page has some parts of it analyzing how Edmond's "mysterious country" might in fact be Israel, and not Turkey, Iran, or Armenia.

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/pf/p-j062102.html

It's too early and not clear enough to say who's all involved, but with the scope of this obvious coverup growing daily, as one notes, whether or not Israel is involved, it still sounds like a huge mess that's waiting to topple a house of cards.

I think it still behooves us to assemble as much information and theories that have been postulated as possible, as our media and our government certainly aren't going to help us doing so.

[Frederik]

96. Justin Raimondo

is one of those who see Israel behind everything, he thinks Israel did 9/11 for instance.

There is no doubt that Israeli intelligence has a heavy presence in the US, and the neo-cons of course have many ties to Israel and Israeli lobbying groups such as AIPAC which probably operates in close cooperation with Israeli intelligence.

As for Sibel Edmonds, though, she doesn't have a "mysterious" country of origin, as far as I undersand. She's Turkish-Azerbaijani. The organization in question is generally understood to be the American Turkish Council or an affiliated group such as American Friends of Turkey. As far as I can tell Raimondo doesn't have any reason to suspect that she's of Israeli ancestry other than, well, I guess he likes the idea.

But Minstrel Boy is of course right in pointing out that Turkey and the Mossad have a close relationship.

[AuntiBush]

95. Can't let this one go...

And can't keep-up with the ton of scandals - daily at that!

No wonder their icon is an elephant!

[seemslikeadream]

101. 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions on C-SPAN

On Saturday, April 30 at 10:30 am

The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions
David Ray Griffiin
Description: David Ray Griffin takes a critical look at the official 9/11 Commission Report put out by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States. Professor Griffin argues that the "omissions and distortions" in the report amount to a cover-up by government officials and says that the available evidence suggests that the Bush administration was complicit in the 9/11 attacks (either by ignoring known threats or through actual participation in the planning of the attacks). Professor Griffin asks a series of questions which he says have been either inadequately answered or completely ignored by the commission. These include questions surrounding the attack on the Pentagon, the way in which the World Trade Center towers collapsed, and the behavior of President Bush and his Secret Service detail following notification that a second plane had hit the WTC. The talk was hosted by the Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth (www.mujca.com) and took place at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. Includes Q&A.
http://www.booktv.org/General/index.asp?segID=5677&schedID=343

:woohoo:

Can be seen here also
http://www.911blogger.com/

Theologian calls for response to 9/11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1406835

[chomskysright]

136. Professor Griffin: 'BUSH ADMINISTRATION WAS COMPLICIT'

[chomskysright]

137. KICK!

[chomskysright]

154. Bush II administration was: FOREWARNED 8.6.01:

Perhaps no better sign of that was the inclusion of some of Resssam’s information in the now famous presidential daily briefing (PDB)—entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.”—that was presented to President Bush by the CIA on Aug. 6, 2001.

Ressam’s information helped authorities break up violent jihadi networks on two continents and jail suspected members of Canadian- and U.S.-based cells. Even John McKay, the U.S. attorney in Seattle who has complained about Ressam’s recent falling out with the government, confirmed that the original information he provided was an important boon to prosecutors, particularly about Al Qaeda tradecraft. “He did give us very good information,” McKay said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7658468/site/newsweek

[chomskysright]

180. photographs prove: THERE WERE NO ARABS ON THE PLANES

The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is
only for the hardcore conspiracy theorist. For a start, they
conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs
on the planes. If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got
on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and
without being registered on the passenger lists. But the curly
question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too
mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist. With vague
mumblings that they must have been using false ID ( but never
specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were
traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this problem, to
relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious
fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked
suspicious.




Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US Air Force, the insider
trading on airline stocks linked to the CIA, the complicit behavior of
Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the
WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other
documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the
conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab
hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and
fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours, crashing them into
important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any
idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.
The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent
even more preposterous stories to distract from its core silliness,
and thus the tale has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly
gargantuan proportions.


Debunking Conspiracy Theorists' Paranoid Fantasies About September
11th That Distract From The Real Issues

By Gerard Holmgren, 9 January 2003

[al bupp]

102. Another Kick /nt

[slater71]

104. Tell it all and go underground.

I know she is under court order not to talk. I also know that this case will never see the light of day. She needs to get her ducks in a row and spill her guts with names and then get all her family and go under ground. if it is as bad as she says and is true, it`s over for Bush and his assholes. She would be a hero instead just another person that Bush has silenced.

[Octafish]

105. A True Patriot.

Hey, lurking Freepers and other assorted phonies! Here's what a true American hero does: Tells the TRUTH!

[clem_c_rock]

129. kick it!

[G_j]

106. kick

[MissWaverly]

107. Wasn't GWB's brother head of security at the Towers

Marvin P. Bush, GWB's younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom, that provided security for the WTC...that this company was in charge of security for the WTC between 1996 until September 11, 2001, and that it installed a new security system between 1996 and 2000...its security work has not been subjected to any 9-11 related investigation by the FBI or any other federal agency.

The New Pearl Harbor, pg. 180 by David Ray Griffin, Olive Branch Press, 2004

[Karenina]

109. Nothing to see here...

:kick:

[newscott]

125. Don't forget Marvin's dead Nanny who ran herself over

in Marvin's driveway.

[MissWaverly]

128. you know all these Bush boys just stretch my imagination

Seriously, let's put them up on a new Mt. Rushmore, I think they all deserve recognition, big time.

[chomskysright]

138. yES, he was!

ostensibly due to the need to carry out a “cabling upgrade,” on the weekend of September 8-9,
2001. This could have afforded Enterprise demolition agents the opportunity to implant
explosives in the South Tower, without being recorded on security cameras. Plaintiff notes
further that Stratesec, a company of which Marvin Bush, the President's brother....provided security in the WTC Complex..33...

Berg RICO lawsuit: on behalf of janitor in north tower during 9-11:



http://www.911forthetruth.com/pdfs/Rodriguezvs.Bush%20.pdf


Phil Berg, attny: bloghttp://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/BergBlog.htm

[chomskysright]

139. Get THUS: CABLING UPGRADE took placeWTC weekend prior to 9-11

[chomskysright]

140. IF explosives had been planted it could explain recorded seismic eventsWTC

Probably the most conclusive evidence that each of the Twin Towers fell in a
controlled demolition is that the tops of the respective buildings reached the ground almost as
quickly as if they had fallen in a vacuum. From a height of 1,360 feet, an object falling in a
vacuum would take a little more than 9 seconds to reach the ground. As a matter of physics, if
the top parts of the buildings were not speeded in their descent by explosives weakening the
44
concrete and steel of the bottom 80 stories or so of the towers that lay in their respective paths,
the towers could not possibly have collapsed as quickly as they did. Some part of the energy
that, in a vacuum, would be available for falling downward at an accelerating rate would have to
be expended instead in tearing through the many stories of concrete and steel that lay between
the top of each WTC tower, and the street.

ostensibly due to the need to carry out a “cabling upgrade,” on the weekend of September 8-9,
2001. This could have afforded Enterprise demolition agents the opportunity to implant
explosives in the South Tower, without being recorded on security cameras. Plaintiff notes
further that Stratesec, a company of which Marvin Bush, the President's brother....provided security in the WTC Complex..33...

The Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, New York (in
Rockland County, roughly 21 miles or 34 km north of the WTC) recorded seismographs on 9-11
that show seismic events at the beginning of the collapse of each of the Twin Towers. There was
a 2.1 magnitude earthquake just as the South Tower began its 10-second collapse at 9:59:04, and
a 2.3 magnitude earthquake as the North Tower began its collapse at 10:28:31.....




http://www.911forthetruth.com/pdfs/Rodriguezvs.Bush%20.pdf


Phil Berg, attny: bloghttp://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/BergBlog.htm

[chomskysright]

141. in coordination with this was NORAD being unavailable 9-11 because:

Also on 9-11, NORAD was conducting a periodic war game,, this one known as
“Vigilant Guardian.” Details have not been made public, but it is known that the scenario was
supposed to test “an imaginary crisis to North American Air Defense outposts nationwide.”72
According to one NORAD employee, “everybody” at NORAD initially thought that the real
hijackings on 9-11 were part of the exercise.73...



The simultaneous occurence of the two events (NORAD Vigilant Guardian drill and 9-11) could not have been mere coincidence; and without
their simultaneous occurrence, the hijacking attempt would have failed. How did the hijackers
know of the exercise? Plaintiff submits that the defendants were and could only have been
complicit in the deed.

[chomskysright]

142. When NORAD was asked to explain:

“Within minutes” of the first impact at 8:46 A.M., two open telephone conference calls were
established among the FAA, NORAD, the Secret Service, and a number of other government
agencies.167 Indeed, according to multiple news sources, even President Bush and Vice President
Cheney were occasionally overheard on these open lines.168
241. Based on the foregoing, it defies belief that, as NORAD claimed in testimony before
the Commission on May 23, 2003, it was not notified of Flight 11 striking the North Tower of
the World Trade Center until 9:05 A.M.169

NORAD, plainly, cannot keep its lies straight,

NORAD did nothing between 8:40
A.M., at which hour it admits receiving word that Flight 11 had been hijacked, for at least 57
minutes, until some time after the Pentagon was struck, at 9:37 A.M.171

F-15 fighters departing Otis as late as 8:52 A.M. could,
without undue effort, have reached New York in time to intercept Flight 175. The discrepancies
in NORAD’S (and Gen. Myers’) accounts are numerous, consequential, and highly suspect.

But for the fact that the Commission has
evidently accepted, without question, the dubious testimony from NORAD, and the major media
(while persisting in reporting some facts not consistent with the Official Story) has not
highlighted these facts or their implications, NORAD would have “a lot of explaining to do”
concerning its failure to get a fighter plane over Washington (and nearby Arlington, Virginia) in
the approximately 47 minutes it ought to have had for that task.

Supposedly, then, we are to believe that F-16s were scrambled from Langley to
pursue and intercept hijacked Flight 77, which had made a U-turn roughly where West Virginia
borders Kentucky, and was headed toward Washington, D.C. It was known that two planes had
been flown into the World Trade Center in New York City during the preceding 45 minutes; yet
the U.S. government, which admits to spending $40 billion annually on intelligence, was unable
to figure out: (1) that Flight 77 was not headed in the opposite direction from its scheduled route
to Los Angeles due to pilot error; (2) that whoever was in control of Flight 77 probably intended
to fly it into a landmark building; and (3) that Washington, D.C. -- the nation’s capital and site of
numerous landmark buildings, toward which Flight 77 was headed -- was the likely site of the
intended attack.

[chomskysright]

143. 'Ground Stop' decision made @ SAME TIME by 1stdayonjob FAA adminis:FAA Adm

FAA Administrator Jane Garvey, “almost certainly after getting an okay from the
White House, initiated a national ground stop” at 9:26 A.M. That measure forbade takeoffs, and
required planes in the air to get down as soon as reasonable. The order – never implemented
since the Wright Brothers first flew – “applied to virtually every single kind of machine that can
take off – civilian, military, or law enforcement.”210 Note the inclusion of military planes.

Later, USA Today claimed that Ben Sliney, FAA National Operations Manager,
made the ground-stop decision. If true, this was indeed an audacious judgment call to have been
made by Mr. Sliney on his very first day on the job as the “chess master of the air traffic
system.”212

[chomskysright]

144. Andrews AFB learned of attacks from NEWS MEDIA:

It appears NORAD was unwilling to use fighters from any but the two bases in the
Northeast sector that they directly controlled, even if there were other bases or fighters already in
the air that were closer. There was no legitimate reason for this.....Andrews personnel learned about the national emergency through news
coverage, and then a pilot called a friend in the Secret Service for more information.

[chomskysright]

145. PA terrorist plan pilot displayed extremely good flying skills for novice:

Given even that supposed terror pilot Hanjour by
all reports was, at best, a marginal pilot, and was supposedly on a
suicide mission, it is simply not believable astounding that he found
both the skill and the sang froid to execute a 270-degree turn, while
descending some 7000 feet in an unwieldy Boeing 757, at a speed
of 270 knots or more.

b. Just as the WTC hijackers were “good” enough to hit the
Twin Towers just as most occupants were arriving for work
(rather than in mid-morning, when the death toll would have
been higher) It is equally unbelievable that the “terrorist”
flying Flight 77 would take took the trouble, in his life’s last
moments, to execute an impossibly acrobatic maneuver, a
professional courtesy as it were, to avoid striking the section of
the Pentagon where Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld has his
office, preferring instead to strike precisely that section of the
structure which, having been recently remodeled, was thinly
populated. Similarly, the WTC hijackers were “good” enough

[chomskysright]

146. Object that hit Pentagon was a missle not a plane & evidencequicklyremoved

If one looks at photographs of the “entrance wound”
inflicted on the Pentagon, plainly it is unbelievably small, if
what hit the Building was a Boeing 757;

As in the case of the World Trade Center, the evidence at the
crime scene was removed, under cover and with amazing
rapidity, precluding any accurate and transparent investigation.

[chomskysright]

147. Bush left FL after 'petgoat' stories w/o Air Force guard: WHY??

129
delay between the second WTC impact, and the time that the Commander-in-Chief (his
indispensable “briefing” regarding the pet goat having been completed) left with his motorcade
about 9:35 A.M., the President’s security would have arranged for an armed fighter escort to
accompany Air Force One. It appears, however, that no fighters reached Air Force One until
sometime between 11:00 A.M. and 11:30 A.M. (NORAD has not released full details).265
Reportedly, the first fighters to reach Air Force One came from Ellington, near Houston, Texas,
long after Air Force One left Florida.266 If, somehow, the 9-11 attacks were not an “inside job,”
carried out with the secret blessing of high officials in the Bush II Administration and the
military and “national security” agencies, the President’s initial conduct following word of the
attacks was bizarre, and those responsible for his safety were remarkably casual, unless the .9-11
attacks were an “inside job” carried out with the secret blessing of high officials in the Bush II
Administration and the military and “national security” agencies.

[seemslikeadream]

148. I believe I read awhile back that there were an extra ordinary

number of government employees on that flight. Do you have knowledge of that?

[seemslikeadream]

151. Navy Reservist pilot Charles Burlingame and Command / Control center

2) The Washington Post reported, in a page 1 story shortly after 9-11, that a Pentagon medic was reading a new Pentagon emergency response manual for what to do in case the building was struck by a civilian airliner just before the Pentagon plane struck the bldg.;

3) The second emergency response exercise to a plane-into-building scenario was on the morning of 9-11 itself, at (at least) the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) headed by a top CIA officer.

4) the main pilot of the 9-11 Pentagon plane, former Navy and then Navy Reservist pilot Charles Burlingame, had recently, in a Reserve assignment at the Pentagon, been part of a Task Force that drafted the Pentagon's emergency response plan on what to do in case a plane hit the building -- which his own plane then did. It is therefore very possible -- in fact extremely likely, if not certain -- that this 'task force' that Flight 77 pilot "Chick" Burlingame was part of was the Cheney counterterrorism preparedness task force, and that the Pentagon plane pilot, therefore, directly knew and even worked with/for Cheney. and

5) Burlingame's 9-11 Pentagon plane not only hit the Pentagon that morning, it struck a Command and Control center for that morning's counterterrorism 'game' exercise, killing most, if not all, of the 'players'. We know this because Army personnel from Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey were on special duty assignment at the Pentagon that morning for an emergency response exercise and were killed when Burlingame's plane hit. Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey also happens to be the headquarters for White House/Presidential communications, including therefore probably also for Air Force One (this is discoverable) -- and recall the warning "Air Force One is next" and the 'secret code' which was called into the White House that morning which WH press secretary Ari Fleischer revealed as a means of explaining why Pres. Bush left Florida for a military base and did not return to the White House. This 'warning' was probably called into the White House, if true, by either the Ft. Monmouth White House communications headquarters and/or the Ft. Monmouth counterterrorism exercise 'game' players temporarily at the Pentagon that morning.
http://www.911dossier.co.uk/pen08.html

[chomskysright]

155. and Congress was told in NO uncertain terms to SHUT UP

A few members of Congress, notably Senators Daschle (D-SD) and Leahy (D-VT),
briefly resisted the “Patriot Act” with its many unconstitutional provisions. Messrs. Daschle and
Leahy, however, were thereupon sent potentially fatal dosages of “weaponized” anthrax, from
American stores. Congress has been mostly supine since.....

The determination
to cover up the truth was so complete, and so “bipartisan,” that not even one outsider, not one
person directly injured by the attacks, not even the estimable (and, as it happens, Republican)
Ms. Breitweiser could be brought into that sanctum in which “truth” is fabricated for the
masses.

The dry powder used in the anthrax attacks is virtually indistinguishable in
critical technical respects from that produced by the United States military
before it shut down its biowarfare program, according to federal scientists
and military contractor documents. The similarity to the levels achieved
by the United States military lends support to the idea that someone with
ties to the old program may be behind the attacks that have killed five
people. Its high concentration is surprising, weapon experts said, and far
beyond what military analysts once judged as the likely abilities of
terrorists. The anthrax sent to the Senate contained as many as one trillion
spores per gram. If a lethal dose is estimated conservatively at 10,000
microscopic spores, then a gram in theory could cause about 100 million
deaths. The letter sent to Tom Daschle, the Senate Democratic leader, is
said to have held two grams of anthrax. (Emphasis added).10


Berg RICO lawsuit:
http://www.911forthetruth.com/pdfs/Rodriguezvs.Bush%20.pdf


Phil Berg, attny: bloghttp://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/BergBlog.htm

[chomskysright]

200. NORAD 'war games' explan. decried by Rep Cynthia McKinney:

Although the American people were deprived of an on-the-record answer about who was running the wargames which paralyzed official response on 9/11, Cynthia McKinney let it be known (on the record) that we knew and would not forget. As she found a way to get her question on the record, she gave us all a priceless Kodak moment: one that ranks right up there with the reaction I evoked in public from then CIA Director John Deutch in 1996.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/030105_mckinney_question.shtml

[chomskysright]

201. 3.1.05: McKinney pins Rumsfeld w/ ? re: '4 war games' on 9-11:

March 1, 2005, PST 1200 (FTW): On February 16, 2005, Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney asked Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Richard B. Myers the same question this reporter asked General Ralph "Ed" Eberhart at the final 9/11 commission hearing:

What about the war games?

The Full House Armed Services Committee met to receive testimony on the Fiscal Year 2006 National Defense Authorization budget request from the Department of Defense. As the meeting wound down to its expected end, Secretary Rumsfeld prepared to leave. Congressman Duncan Hunter (R-CA), who chaired the hearing, asked the Secretary to commit to a breakfast with Representatives who had not yet asked their questions. Secretary Rumsfeld happily agreed to do so.

At that moment Cynthia McKinney made sure to get the following vital question into the Congressional Record.

Transcript, February 16, Rumsfeld and Myers questioned by Cynthia McKinney:

Cynthia McKinney: Mr. Chairman, I have a question.

Duncan Hunter: The Gentle-lady is recognized.

McKinney: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Would that breakfast with the Secretary be open to the public?

Hunter: Well, if you want to bring all the omelets it might be, but ah -

McKinney: Well Mr. Chairman, the problem is - and I appreciate your adherence to the five-minute rule - however there are many of us who have important questions and my question in particular is about the four war games that were taking place on September 11th and how they may have impaired our ability to respond to those attacks.

Mr. Hunter: Well let me say the gentle lady...



McKinney: I would like that question to be answered in public Mr. Chairman.

Hunter: Let me say to the gentle lady we're going to have other opportunities to have the Secretary in front of us and what we will do beyond having questions, if you want a question for the record, be able to put that to the record and have the answer on the record, but additionally at the next event where the Secretary testifies - we'll try to make sure that happens - we will start with the folks who did not get their question answered so you will have an opportunity.

McKinney: Thank you so much Mr. Chairman, and I hope the record is still open so that even that portion of my comment will be on this record.

Hunter: It will be so ordered.

McKinney: Thank you Mr. Chairman.

-- end of transcript

At this point Representative Skelton (D-MO) asked a visibly flustered Donald Rumsfeld if in the future a classified briefing could occur on the recommendations given by General Luck and his team to the Secretary.

This helped to bury McKinney's question (and by necessity, the process continues: DoD has posted a peculiar "transcript" of the meeting's final moments, from which Representative McKinney's question has been thoroughly deleted), giving Rumsfeld a way to divert attention from the issue she had skillfully placed on the record. Rumsfeld responded to Skelton's question without addressing McKinney's at all. The only response to her question came in the form of both Rumsfeld and Myers' rapid hand movements and off-microphone murmurs. The issue seemed to knock Rumsfeld off-balance, affecting him as it had affected Ralph "Ed" Eberhart at the final 9/11 Commission hearing.

It's unlikely that "No comment" will be an acceptable reply to Representative McKinney's question. Eberhart got away with that when responding to this reporter, and has since retired from his post heading both NORTHERN COMMAND and NORAD. His retirement came immediately after the 2004 presidential election. It appears "no comment" will be his final word on the matter, but that will not be the case for Secretary Rumsfeld and General Myers.

Who was in charge of coordinating the multiple war games running on 9/11? Crossing the Rubicon has already answered this question in spades. But maybe, just maybe, with her return to Capitol Hill Cynthia McKinney has kept alive a flicker of hope that the crimes of 9/11 may yet shake up the US government.

The courage and directness of this fearless woman never cease to amaze us. She has let it be known that she will be a perpetual thorn in the side of the administration for at least the next two years.

[chomskysright]

202. Who was in charge of coordinating the multiple war games running on 9/11?

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/030105_mckinney_question.shtml

[chomskysright]

203. Was building 7 WTC 'pulled'? : again: explosives placed in WTC

How Could The Explosives Have Been Placed Beforehand?

Ben Fountain, a financial analyst who worked in the World Trade Center Complex, told People Magazine that in the weeks before 9/11 there were numerous unnanounced and unusual drills where sections of both the twin towers and building 7 were evacuated for quote ‘security reasons'. This was obviously the perfect opportunity to place those explosives

http://www.infowars.com/print/Sept11/pp_fdny.htm

[Name removed]

181. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chomskysright]

182. Ryan of Underwriters Lab who spoke out was fired for metallurgy test:

Key Researcher Casts More Doubt On WTC Collapse
Laboratory director fired for questioning official federal Sept. 11 scenario

By Mark Anderson


SOUTH BEND, Ind.—A former laboratory director of a division of Underwriters Laboratories (UL) in South Bend generated considerable heat in professional circles on Nov. 11 when he fired off a letter via email to a prominent metallurgist, questioning the theory that jet fuel fires set by the 9-11 terrorist attacks against the World Trade Center were hot enough to soften or melt structural steel.

Sending that email led to Kevin R. Ryan being fired from his job as site manager at the UL-affiliated Environmental Health Laboratories Inc., in South Bend.

Ryan wrote his professional opinion to metallurgist Frank Gayle at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) because NIST, with Gayle at the helm, is conducting a $16 million, two-year investigation of the twin towers’ collapse, with a draft report expected in January.

UL has played “a limited role in the investigation,” noted The South Bend Tribune on Nov. 22. The investigation reportedly involves testing the type of steel used to construct the World Trade Center—mainly its ability to withstand fires.

The federal probe postulates that burning jet fuel was a primary factor in the structural collapse that led to the “pancaking”-style, vertical demolition of the 110-story WTC towers on Sept. 11, 2001. However, any clear information that throws water on that theory is bound to furl some brows among those who accept the government’s story of how the WTC towers were destroyed.

Ryan, whose firing may be in response to his decision to share his letter beyond the confines of his company and its affiliates, did not return phone messages left for him by AFP on Nov. 29 and Nov. 30.

According to the 911Truth.org News Service, he copied his letter, via email, to David Ray Griffin, author of the book about 9-11 called The New Pearl Harbor. Ryan also copied it to Catherine Austin Fitts, a member of the 911Truth.org board.

Griffin reportedly received permission to distribute Ryan’s letter to other parties.

On Nov. 12, the letter was published at septembereleventh.org, the web site of the 9-11 Visibility Project.

AFP obtained a copy of Ryan’s letter, in which Ryan said he was speaking for himself only, not on behalf of UL or his laboratory. The recipient, Gayle, is deputy chief of the Metallurgy Division of the NIST.

“The buildings should have easily withstood the thermal stress caused by pools of burning jet fuel,” Ryan noted in his rather lengthy letter, referring to the results of performance tests on models of the floor assemblies used in the Twin Towers, as he described it. In the letter, Ryan refutes Dr. Hyman Brown from the WTC construction crew, who claims that the WTC buildings collapsed “due to fires at 2,000 F melting the steel.”

Ryan also noted that a newspaper, which he did not name, commented on Brown by saying, “Just-released preliminary findings from a National Institute of Standards and Technology study of the World Trade Center Collapse support Brown’s theory.”

Ryan pointed out in his letter that the steel components would have had to have been exposed to temperatures around 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit for several hours.

“And as we all agree, the steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we can all agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3,000 F. Why Brown would imply that 2,000 F would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sense at all.”

Referring to the summer 2003 results of Gayle’s own published metallurgical tests, Ryan noted that “weak steel” was virtually ruled out at that time as a “contributing factor in the collapse.”

Ryan wrote to Gayle: “Your comments suggest that the steel was probably exposed to temperatures of only about 500 degrees (250 C), which is what one might expect from a thermodynamic analysis of the situation.”

However, Gayle later released additional findings that, according to Ryan, “seem to ignore” the 2003 results.

Ryan pointed out that the summary of the new findings “states that the perimeter columns softened, yet your findings make clear that ‘most perimeter panels (157 of 160) saw no temperature above 250 C.’ To soften steel for the purposes of forging, normally temperatures need to be above 1,100 C. However, this new summary report suggests that much lower temperatures were able to not only soften the steel in a matter of minutes, but lead to rapid structural collapse.”

In the letter to Gayle, Ryan added: “This story just does not add up. If steel from those buildings did soften or melt, I’m sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet fuel fires of any kind, let alone briefly burning fires in those towers. That fact should be of great concern to all Americans. Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures around 250 C suggests that the majority of deaths on 9-11 were due to a safety-related failure. That suggestion should be a great concern to my company.”

Noting that the events of 9-11 “are the emotional driving force behind the War on Terror,” and that the WTC collapse “is at the crux of the story of 9-11,” Ryan told Gayle: “My feeling is that your metallurgical tests are at the crux of the crux of the crux.”

Ryan summarized, “Either you can make sense of what really happened to those buildings, and communicate this quickly, or we all face the same destruction and despair that come from global decisions based on disinformation and ‘chatter.’ . . . Please do what you can to quickly eliminate the confusion regarding the ability of jet fuel fires to soften or melt structural steel.”

The 911Truth.org News Service, quoting a Nov. 12 New York Times report, noted that “the NIST team under Gayle is planning to hold some of its deliberations in secret” and that some 9-11 victims were considering filing a lawsuit “to force the agency to open the meetings to the public.”

The NIST investigation was started in 2002 after lobbying by the Skyscraper Safety Campaign, created by Monica Gabrielle and Sally Regenhard, both of whom lost family members on Sept. 11, 2001.

UL media spokesman Paul Baker had not returned two phone messages as this story went to press.

An unattributed UL-linked comment in the above-mentioned Nov. 22 South Bend Tribune story denied that UL ever certified the materials for building the WTC.

However, Ryan stated in his letter: “. . . he company I work for certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings.”

[Name removed]

183. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chomskysright]

204. WTC 9-11 firefighters speaking of explosives:

http://www.infowars.com/print/Sept11/pp_fdny.htm

Evidence of Explosives Used in the Twin Towers

The Firefighters' Tapes: Tapes reveal that fires were under control not raging infernos

The audio presented here is a recording of the firefighter's tapes on September 11th that have been released publically. A lot of the portions of the tapes have been classified. This portion lasts an hour and thirteen minutes, we have highlighted the interesting parts below with full transcripts. According to the Port Authority, this recording covers approximately 8:45 to 9:58 AM Eastern.

Open the following link and it should play in your media player.

911 Firefighter's tape

Now wait til it downloads and skip through to 39:00 and begin listening to the following:

9:25 a.m.
Ladder 15: "Go ahead, Irons."

Ladder 15 Irons: "Just got a report from the director of Morgan Stanley. Seventy-eight seems to have taken the brunt of this stuff, there's a lot of bodies, they say the stairway is clear all the way up, though."

Ladder 15: "Alright, ten-four Scott. What, what floor are you on?"

Ladder 15 Irons: "Forty-eight right now."

Ladder 15: "Alright, we're coming up behind you."

Now skip another six minutes to 45:52 and listen:

9:31 a.m.
Battalion Seven Aide: "Battalion Seven, you want me to relay?"

Ladder 15: "Yeah, Steve tell Chief Palmer they got reports that there's more planes in the area, we may have to back down here."

Battalion Seven Aide: "Ten-four."

"Seven Alpha to Seven."

Battalion Seven: "Steve. Seven to Seven Alpha."

Ladder 15: "Fifteen to 15 Roof."

"Fifteen Roof."

Ladder 15: "We got reports of another incoming plane. We may have to take cover. Stay in the stairwell."

Ladder 15 Roof: "Ten-four."

Ladder 15: "Fifteen to 15 Roof. That plane's ours. I repeat. It's ours. What floor are you on, Scotty?"

Ladder 15 Roof: "Fifty-four."

Ladder 15: "Alright. Keep making your way up. We're behind you."

Ladder 15 Roof: "Ten-four."

The officers then describe where they are headed, where they believe the fires to be...

Now skip to 54:02...

9:37 a.m.
Ladder 15 Lieutenant: "Tommy, listen carefully. I'm sending all the injured down to you on 40. You're going to have to get'em down to the elevator. There's about 10 to 15 people coming down to you."

Ladder 15 Firefighter: "Okay."

Ladder 15 Lieutenant: "Ten civilians coming down. Fifteen to OV."

Ladder 15 Firefighter: "Got that, I'm on 40 right now, Lieu."

9:39 a.m.

Ladder 15 Lieutenant: "Alright Tommy, when you take people down to the lobby, try to get an EMS crew back."

Ladder 15 Firefighter: "Definitely."
Now skip to 57:20...
9:43 a.m.
Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Ladder 15 Roof, what's your progress?"

Ladder 15 Roof: "Sixty-three, Battalion."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four."

Battaltion Nine Chief: "Battalion Nine to Battalion Seven."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Go ahead Battaltion Nine."

Battalion Nine Chief: "Orio, I couldn't find a bank to bring you up any highter. I'm on the 40th floor, what can I do for you?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "We're going to have to hoof it. I'm on 69 now, but we need a higher bank, kay."

Battalion Nine Chief: "What stairway you in Orio?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "The center of the building, boy, boy."

"Tac One to Tac One Alpha."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Ladder 15 Roof, what floor?"

Battalion Nine Chief: "Battalion Nine to Battalion Seven."

Battalion Seven Chief: "...Battalion Nine."

Battalion Nine Chief: "Orio, I'm going to try and get a couple of CFRD engines on the 40th floor so send any victims down here, I'll start up a staging area."

Battalion Seven Chief: "...find a fireman service elevator close to 40, if we get some more cars in that bank, we'll be alright."

Now skip to 01:02:40. This is where the fires are discovered and described as "two isolated pockets"

9:48 a.m.
Ladder 15: "Battalion Fifteen to Battalion Seven."

Battalion Seven: "Go Ladder 15."

Ladder 15: "What do you got up there, Chief?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "I'm still in boy stair 74th floor. No smoke or fire problems, walls are breached, so be careful."

Ladder 15: "Yeah Ten-Four, I saw that on 68. Alright, we're on 71 we're coming up behind you."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four. Six more to go."

Ladder 15: "Let me know when you see more fire."

Battalion Seven Chief: "I found a marshall on 75."

9:49 a.m.
Ladder 15: "Fifteen to 15 OV. Fifteen to 15 OV.

"Fifteen OV."

Ladder 15: "Tommy, have you made it back down to the lobbby yet?"

Ladder 15 OV: "The elevator's screwed up."

Ladder 15: "You can't move it?"

Ladder 15 OV: "I don't want to get stuck in the shaft."

9:50 a.m.

Ladder 15: "Alright Tommy. It's imperative that you go down to the lobby command post and get some people up to 40. We got injured people up here on 70. If you make it to the lobby command post see if they can somehow get elevators past the 40th floor. We got people injured all the way up here."

Battalion Seven Aide: "Battaltion Seven Alpha to Seven."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Go Steve."

Battalion Seven Aide: "Yeah Chief, I'm on 55, I got to rest. I'll try to get up there as soon as possible."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four."


9:50 a.m.
"Anybody see the highway one car? Highway one car we need it for an escort to the hospital for a fireman."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Ladder 15."

"15 Irons."

Ladder 15: "Fifteen to 15 Roof and Irons."

Battalion Six Chief: "Battalion Six to command post."

9:52 a.m.

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Battalion Seven Alpha."

"Freddie, come on over. Freddie, come on over by us."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."

Ladder 15: "What stair are you in, Orio?"

Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha to lobby command post."

Ladder Fifteen: "Fifteen to Battalion Seven."

Battalion Seven Chief: "... Ladder 15."

Ladder 15: "Chief, what stair you in?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "South stairway Adam, South Tower."

Ladder 15: "Floor 78?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four, numerous civilians, we gonna need two engines up here."

Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're on our way."


9:52 a.m.
Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha for Battalion Seven."

Battalion Seven Chief: "South tower, Steve, south tower, tell them...Tower one. Battalion Seven to Ladder 15.

"Fifteen."

Battalion Seven Chief: "I'm going to need two of your firefighters Adam stairway to knock down two fires. We have a house line stretched we could use some water on it, knock it down, kay."

Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're coming up the stairs. We're on 77 now in the B stair, I'll be right to you."

Ladder 15 Roof: "Fifteen Roof to 15. We're on 71. We're coming right up."

Now skip to 01:11:22...

9:57 a.m.
"Division 3 ... lobby command, to the Fieldcom command post."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Operations Tower One to floor above Battalion Nine."

Battalion Nine Chief: "Battalion Nine to command post."

Battalion Seven Operations Tower One: "Battalion Seven Operations Tower One to Battalion Nine, need you on floor above 79. We have access stairs going up to 79, kay."

Battalion Nine: "Alright, I'm on my way up Orio."

Ladder 15 OV: "Fifteen OV to Fifteen."

Ladder 15: "Go ahead Fifteen OV, Battalion Seven Operations Tower One."

Ladder 15 OV: "Stuck in the elevator, in the elevator shaft, you're going to have to get a difference elevator. We're chopping through the wall to get out."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Radio lobby command with that Tower One."

9:58 a.m.

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Ladder 15."

(END OF TAPE)

These tapes reveal the fact that the firefighters were not overly concerned with the strength of the fires and believed they could control them. They were not raging infernos that could melt steel. These tapes alone prove that the official story of the collapse of the World Trade Towers is a complete and total lie. Why have the rest of the tapes been classified? Because they reveal the truth, that 's why.

[chomskysright]

205. firefighters SAW NO RAGING INFERNO

[chomskysright]

158. 4 DAYS BEFORE 9-11: Jeb issues EXecutive Order re: calling up Nat'l Guard

It is intriguing, and circumstantial proof of Enterprise foreknowledge of the 9-11
attacks, that on September 7, 2001, just four days before 9-11, the President’s brother Jeb Bush,
as Governor of Florida, issued an Executive Order (#01-261) delegating to the Adjutant General
of the state of Florida, “all necessary authority . . . to order members of the Florida National
Guard into Active Service.” Immediately after the collapse of the South Tower on 9-11,
Governor Jeb Bush signed Executive Order #01-262, declaring a state of emergency in Florida
that upon information and belief remained in effect for a year or longer, despite the fact that no
acts of terrorism have occurred in Florida....

[MissWaverly]

164. Thanks have bookmarked this as a favorite

Thanks for this information

[sattahipdeep]

110. Dog Island Free Forever

She always stresses that people from several countries are involved...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1332757

[seemslikeadream]

111. Find the $3-trillion dots.....................

maybe some of them fit together


$3-trillion fake federal bank notes seized from 2 Britons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1412609


Transcript of McKinney's Exchange with Rumsfeld, Myers and Jonas
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3552883&mesg_id=3552883&page=



FERERAL BANK RESERVE CERTIFICATES

[sattahipdeep]

166. WTC computers

Do you deny that the FBI intercepts you translated indicated that financial
arrangements were in place well before the 911 attacks to both fund and
profit from the terrorism while also facilitating the laundering of drug money
into recent congressional and presidential campaigns?

"I cannot comment on that, Tom. You know I’m under a gag order," she said.

http://tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=109

When we asked how many Americans were named in the intercepts,
Edmonds said "There is direct evidence involving no more than ten American
names that I recognized," further revealing that "some are heads of government
agencies or politicians--but I don’t want to go any further than that," as we
listened in stunned silence.

[Beam Me Up]

112. I could make it my life's work to just kick this once every damn day.

until EVERY DU member has read it and fully 'grocked' the significance of this story. If Sibel isn't free to tell the truth, then none of us are.

:kick:

[clem_c_rock]

114. ALL RABID DOUBTERS OF MIHOP - PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS ONE!!

I would really love a good explanation.

And then, while you're at it, please explain building 7.

Y'all are living in denial.

[chomskysright]

149. Read the complete story, connecting the dots: Berg RICO lawsuit:

http://www.911forthetruth.com/pdfs/Rodriguezvs.Bush%20.pdf


Phil Berg, attny: bloghttp://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/BergBlog.htm

[clem_c_rock]

115. Kick the hell out of this one

[clem_c_rock]

117. kick

[harpo]

120. It will be a great day in America when she is allowed to talk....

about the things she knows...nothing would please me more than seeing someone in the tard administration being handcuffed, booked, and having the court trial of a lifetime.

[lucca]

150. I Agree.

And to the MSM:
Get your priorities straight, start reporting the real news,the truth about this administration, and what is really going on in this country.

[clem_c_rock]

121. MMMMMM IIIIIIIIIIII HHHHHHHH OOOOOOOOOOOOOO PPPPPPPPPPPPP

[Sterling]

126. Kick

nt

[90-percent]

127. courage

It would be too much to ask for Sibel to fall on her sword and defy the gag order and create Pentagon Papers Too.

Don't know if I would sacrifice the rest of my life to prison to do something so heroic and patriotic if I was in her shoes.

Hopefully she won't get suicided, at least.

-85%

[seemslikeadream]

130. From the Washington Post and Kansas City Star

Thanks OmmmSweetOmmm

Whistle-Blowers Urge Congress to Get Tougher on Retaliation

By Stephen Barr

Friday, April 29, 2005; Page B02

A group of more than 50 whistle-blowers called on Congress yesterday to strengthen protections against retaliation by federal agencies when employees expose improper activities or mistakes that could damage homeland and national security.

Sibel Edmonds , a former FBI language specialist, has taken the lead in forming the group, the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition. She was fired as a wiretap translator after alleging that a co-worker was leaking information about an FBI investigation.


Among those joining Edmonds at the Capitol Hill news conference were Coleen Rowley , a retired FBI agent who faulted headquarters for not allowing Minneapolis agents to pursue a terrorism probe before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks; Mike German , a former FBI agent who said his career was "put on ice" after he reported wrongdoing; and John Vincent , a retired FBI agent who spoke on behalf of Robert Wright , a veteran agent who was fired after claiming the bureau had mishandled investigations of the Palestinian group known as Hamas.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR2005042801680.html


Posted on Fri, Apr. 29, 2005



Stronger whistleblower laws sought
New group wants to curb retaliation

Cox News Service


WASHINGTON — A newly formed group of national security whistleblowers called Thursday for Congress to overhaul legislation that protects federal employees when they expose wrongdoing in the government.

Members of the National Security Whistleblowers met with staff from the House Government Reform Committee and the Senate Judiciary and Armed Services committees to request stronger protections in the 16-year-old Whistle Blower Protection Act.

“We have no system in place that applies direct, individual accountability when it comes to retaliation against whistleblowers,” said Sibel Edmonds, an FBI whistleblower who started the coalition. “There is no deterrence for those who engage in government waste, fraud, abuse and criminal activities that jeopardize our nation's security.”

Edmonds alleged in a federal lawsuit that the FBI retaliated against her after she reported security breaches, including possible espionage, to her supervisors.

https://registration.kansascity.com/reg/login.do?url=http://www.kansascity.com%2Fmld%2Fkansascity%2Fnews%2Fnation%2F11517539.htm

[cascadiance]

131. KIIICK!!!

[lovuian]

133. Fighting back against corruption!!!

These people are tough!!!

[cascadiance]

132. Whistleblowers "storm" the capitol

From: http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0518,Ridgeway-edmonds,63557,6.html
-------------------------------------------------
Mondo Washington

In the Name of Sibel Edmonds
Intelligence whistleblowers storm Capitol Hill, asking for the right to be heard.
by James Ridgeway
April 29th, 2005 11:11 AM

WASHINGTON, D.C.—Galvanized by the case of FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds, more than 50 current and former federal employees calling themselves the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition stormed Capitol Hill yesterday to demand Congressional protection from retaliation by their dead beat bosses in the intelligence bureaucracy.

Many of these people have tried to get someone to listen to what they know about national security issues, from cover-ups to possible espionage. More often than not, they say, their protests result in vicious, demeaning, ruinous retaliation by the bosses.

Edmonds, a translator hired to bolster the FBI's weak languages staff after 9-11, says she was forced to go public with accusations that the work she was observing was not just flawed but was actually dangerous to national security. The government responded by firing her and classifying all of her attempts to speak out, including an interview with 60 Minutes. She is suing the feds for violation of First Amendment rights. A judge this month moved to close the hearings, over the objections of national media.

The list of her supporters yesterday ran the gamut of the federal intelligence community, including more than half a dozen FBI agents along with federal employees from the National Security Agency, Customs, Homeland Security, Army intelligence, Navy intelligence, Defense Intelligence, Department of Energy, the FAA, and the CIA.

...

[Lochloosa]

134. Kick

[clem_c_rock]

135. kick it all weekend

[Kweli4Real]

152. Is there anyone out there ...

That still believes that we live in a transparent democracy?

[Ysolde]

153. I hadn't seen any of this, either...

Kick!

[cascadiance]

156. PEG Post... Keep replying to this to keep it pegged in top 5 all weekend!

KIIICKKK!!!

[cascadiance]

159. Kick...

[cascadiance]

163. Kick Again!

[cascadiance]

169. Kick it!

[cascadiance]

172. Kick!

[cascadiance]

190. Keep kicking it on top!

[Octafish]

157. Village Voice weighs in via Ridgeway...

In the Name of Sibel Edmonds

Intelligence whistleblowers storm Capitol Hill, asking for the right to be heard.

by James Ridgeway
April 29th, 2005 11:11 AM alert me by e-mail

WASHINGTON, D.C.—Galvanized by the case of FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds, more than 50 current and former federal employees calling themselves the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition stormed Capitol Hill yesterday to demand Congressional protection from retaliation by their dead beat bosses in the intelligence bureaucracy.

Many of these people have tried to get someone to listen to what they know about national security issues, from cover-ups to possible espionage. More often than not, they say, their protests result in vicious, demeaning, ruinous retaliation by the bosses.

Edmonds, a translator hired to bolster the FBI's weak languages staff after 9-11, says she was forced to go public with accusations that the work she was observing was not just flawed but was actually dangerous to national security. The government responded by firing her and classifying all of her attempts to speak out, including an interview with 60 Minutes. She is suing the feds for violation of First Amendment rights. A judge this month moved to close the hearings, over the objections of national media.

The list of her supporters yesterday ran the gamut of the federal intelligence community, including more than half a dozen FBI agents along with federal employees from the National Security Agency, Customs, Homeland Security, Army intelligence, Navy intelligence, Defense Intelligence, Department of Energy, the FAA, and the CIA.

CONTINUED...

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0518,Ridgeway-edmonds,63557,6.html

[Frederik]

161. Dispatching agents to tail her?

Or were the FBI just bluffing? Who knows.

"No one in the intelligence community has whistleblower protection of any kind. Most observers would think it sheer madness for these people to speak out. According to a new study by the Project on Government Oversight, what happens is a slow stigmatizing of the whistleblower. It begins with marginalizing the employee by taking away his or her job. Next, the security clearanced it taken away, effectively firing him. A lie detector test is given. If the whistleblower persists, he or she is subjected to a retaliatory investigation.

The employee’s mental health is questioned. In certain instances, agencies actually try to entrap the employee. For example, Sibel Edmonds tells the story of how she was accused by her FBI superiors of carrying classified materials to Congress. How did the bureau know that?

Easy, said the investigating supervisor. Agents had been dispatched to tail her (she at that point was just a bothersome woman), and they heard her discussing the contents of the classified documents over lunch with her visiting sister and mother. However, Edmonds is Turkish-American and her mother and sister are Turkish citizens. They were talking in Turkish. The agents didn’t speak Turkish."

[Generator]

160. There is a key to the whole nightmare we are living

and this woman has it. 9/11 is the key..always will be..which sometimes pisses me off that 9/11 stories are regulated to a seperate forum. 9/11 is the key. Blow it open and it all falls down.

[DearAbby]

162. Healthy Kick...

:wow:

[clem_c_rock]

165. FUNNY HOW ANTI-MIHOPERS WON'T TOUCH THIS POST

Everytime the Sibel Edmonds case pops up, boy we run out of nifty theories don't we?

[Beam Me Up]

175. yeah, usually they're like flys on shit...did we get one at #174, though?

n/t

[MontageOfFreedom]

167. I see the boiling point is now getting quite high.

I can't wait to see the rest of this story come to frutition.

[seemslikeadream]

168. C-SPAN SATURDAY 10:30AM 9/11 AND THE AMERICAN EMPIRE

From
Dr.Phool

C-span to explode 9/11 truth Blackout Sat. 10:30 am
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3560601

Sounds like something that needs to be watched!


C-Span Explodes 9/11 Truth Blackout! They Will Broadcast David Griffin Talk Saturday 10:30 AM
"9/11 and the American Empire: How Should Religious People Respond?"

The word has finally come down: David Griffin's incendiary but well-documented charges of Bush administration complicity in 9/11 have been scheduled for national telecast.! C-span will broadcast Griffin's talk "9/11 and the American Empire: How Should Religious People Respond?" on Book TV (C-Span 2) this Saturday, April 30th, at 10:30 a.m. Eastern time. My C-Span contact said the talk will also be rebroadcast on Book TV on several weekends after that--check the C-Span website for times:
http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/schedule.cs...
http://www.booktv.org/schedule /

http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/149076/index....

Griffin's electrifying talk was recorded Monday night, April 18th, in Madison, Wisconsin. If you missed this historic moment-- the biggest lecture hall at the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus overflowing with over 450 people who gave Griffin a thunderous standing ovation for charging the Bush-Cheney regime with orchestrating the 9/11 attacks--you'll have to see the video to believe it! And you won't believe the local media coverage either. Scroll down and do a double-take.

All over the country, people will be gathering for C-Span viewing parties--a new phenomenon for a network whose government coverage is usually comprised of more pedestrian fare. Some are already comparing this broadcast to the televised Watergate hearings in 1974, in which John Dean's charges against Richard Nixon ultimately brought down that corrupt, warmongering administration.

Griffin's speech represents a breakthrough not only in national 9/11 truth coverage, but in local coverage as well. Madison's mainstream and alternative media reported the event fairly, accurately, and prominently. As expected, was the alternative outlets, led by WYOU-TV, WORT radio, Indymedia, and the weekly papers Isthmus and the Madison Times, that broke the Griffin story. WYOU-TV has been putting 9/11 truth on the air for over a year on the Sunday night (7-8 p.m.) Garden of Truth slot, and WORT-radio had also raised the 9/11 truth issue on Lea Zeldin's program in spring, 2004.

During the week before David Griffin's April 18th, 2005 talk, WORT hosts Lea Zeldin, Tony Castenada, and Linda Jameson all devoted part of their programs to 9/11 truth. Isthmus journalist Bill Lueders, one of Madison's most respected local columnists, plugged the upcoming Griffin talk in his column, and Jonathan Gramling ran a terrific story in the Madison Times:

http://www.madtimes.com /

Critiques of the 9/11 Commission report

Questions left unanswered

by Jonathan Gramling

The events of September 11, 2001 - the crashing of hijacked planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and the crashing of a fourth plane in a Pennsylvania field - continue to reverberate through and change American society as the U.S. engages in an unending war against terrorism. During the ensuing 3-4 years, the U.S. has engaged in wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, dramatically increased its military spending, and curtailed civil liberties within its borders.

While most Americans - and the 911 Commission Report - blame the events totally on al-Qaeda and feel that the U.S. government was unaware that the attacks would occur, a vocal minority of individuals continue to raise unanswered questions about 911. On April 18, Dr. David Griffin, author of "The New Pearl Harbor" and "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions" and one of the leading critics of the 9/11 Commission Report, will speak at 2650 Humanities on the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus.

When asked about the commission report during a telephone interview with The Madison Times, Griffin responded "I have one little problem with the 911 Commission report. It is a 567-page lie."

While one may not agree with Griffin's conclusions that the U.S. government purposely allowed the events of 9/11 to happen and helped facilitate it in order to galvanize the will of U.S. citizens as the Bush administration expanded the American empire and secured American hegemony as the world's only super power, it is evident that Griffin raises some interesting questions.

Take the collapse of the World Trade Center towers, for example. While the official version is that the initial impact coupled with a widespread, intense fire caused the structural steel to weaken and the floors of the towers to eventually pancake down on top of each other, Griffin has some questions. "Here you have an anomaly that never before in history have high-rise steel frame buildings come close to collapsing because of fire," Griffin said. "Yet three of them miraculously did it on that day. Furthermore, there have been fires that have been far more intense that filled the whole building and went on for many, many hours like the recent Madrid fire and they don't collapse. Yet here, we have very small fires that are only in a few floors, particularly Building Seven - you only had fires on the seventh and twelfth floors - they were relatively small fires, yet here comes down this 47 story building at 5:30 in the afternoon, having never been hit by an airplane."

Griffin went on to discuss the steel columns within the core of the towers that structural engineers say bore the weight of the buildings. "The major part of the weight was born by these really massive steel columns," Griffin said. "And they went all of the way up. Well, they would have been sticking up in the air a thousand feet even if all the floors had pancaked. So, what does the 911 Commission do? They just deny the existence of those columns."

Griffin and others have found significant discrepancies between the facts and the theory that Flight 77, a Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon and slid all the way into the interior of the building. "My own view is still that the evidence is just overwhelming that whatever it was that hit the Pentagon, it was not Flight 77 because it couldn't have been if it wasn't a Boeing 757," Griffin said. "There are many lines of evidence supporting that. What does the 911Commission do? It simply ignores all of this. Now what could they have done? They could have subpoenaed the videos that the FBI confiscated from the service station across the freeway from the Pentagon five minutes after the Pentagon was hit. Wasn't that alert. There are several other videos from hotels around the Pentagon. The Dept. of Transportation had video. There are all sorts of videos that could prove the government's case if it's true that it was Flight 77, or at least that it was a Boeing 757. But the 911 Commission doesn't even raise that. So you would think if the story were true, they would have done that. But they didn't."

Finally, when Flight 93 crashed in the Pennsylvania field, Griffin contends it did not crash as passengers and terrorists fought for control of the plane. According to Griffin, it was shot down. "Maybe it was shot down after it appeared the passengers were going to get control of it and maybe bring it in for a safe landing, in which case, everyone would be alive," Griffin said. "First of all, the commission simply ignores all the evidence that I reported in The New Pearl Harbor that suggested the plane had been shot down. Secondly, they changed the timeline. That's just one of many examples of how they radically changed the previous timeline that everyone had lived with for almost three years."

Griffin’s talk begins at 7:30 p.m. on April 18.

MAINSTREAM MEDIA WAKES UP, SMELLS COFFEE

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/forum/index.php?ntid=36...
Melanie Conklin's column (p. 2 of the Sunday Wisconsin State Journal, a Republican newspaper) helped draw the overflow crowd:

Talking about Sept. 11 On Monday, Madison will be the site of a rare visit from David Ray Griffin, theology professor and author of "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11."

As one might guess from that title, Griffin is controversial. He is being sponsored by a coalition of groups, including the UW Multicultural Student Coalition and MUJCA-NET (a new Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance).

"The question of the media coverage (or lack thereof) of the demonstrable mendacity of the official story of 9/11 is the proverbial elephant in the living room," says Kevin Barrett of MUJCA-NET. Griffin's talk is being taped by C-SPAN for play at a later date. Jennifer Moire, C-SPAN spokeswoman, explains its decision to cover the event as a logical follow-up to the "extensive" coverage they gave the Commission and Congressional Sept. 11 hearings: "It just seems appropriate to cover other voices."

Griffin says Madison is only his fourth lecture stop on Sept. 11 because he doesn't like to travel, so he usually sticks to radio interviews he can do in his slippers. But he calls Madison an exception because he likes seeing people of different faiths coming together to talk about Sept. 11. And he's "very happy" C-SPAN is coming.

"It will be the closest thing to mainstream coverage that this kind of interpretation of 9/11 has received," Griffin says.

His talk is Monday at 7:30 p.m. in 272 Bascom Hall.


_________________________________________________________

THE REPUBLICAN WISCONSIN STATE JOURNAL, THE BIGGEST DAILY IN THE REGION, SURPRISED READERS WITH THIS EXCELLENT REPORT OF GRIFFIN'S TALK:

http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=wsj:2005:0...

Speaker Says Bush Knew Of Sept. 11 Plans

The Theologian And Author Believes The President Endorsed The Attacks To Build Up Support For His Military Plans.

Wisconsin State Journal :: LOCAL/WISCONSIN :: B1

Tuesday, April 19, 2005
Doug Erickson Wisconsin State Journal
A noted Christian theologian suggested Monday in Madison that the Bush administration not only had prior knowledge of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, but probably helped orchestrate them.

David Ray Griffin, 65, a retired professor at the Claremont School of Theology in Claremont, Calif., said the government's version of the attacks is so implausible it can't possibly be true.

The numerous inconsistencies and far-fetched explanations from Bush officials "show that the attacks must have been planned and executed by our own political and military leaders," Griffin said.

He thinks Bush endorsed the attacks to gain support for a military buildup and global domination effort that began with the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.


Griffin is part of a small group of scholars and others questioning the government's story and the conclusions of the bipartisan 9/11 commission that investigated the attacks.

Griffin's speech before about 450 people at Bascom Hall on the UW-Madison campus was considered a major victory by his supporters in that it was taped by C-SPAN for later broadcast on the public service cable channel. No air dates were available Monday.

Event organizer Kevin Barrett, founder of a Muslim-Jewish-Christian alliance called MUJCA-NET, told the crowd C-SPAN should be applauded "for having the guts to put 9/11 truth on national TV."

Barrett said his group paid Griffin's airfare and was hoping to provide an additional $100 to cover expenses. Otherwise, Griffin did not charge for his appearance.

Griffin has written extensively on the origins of evil and the relationship between science and religion. He has authored or edited 24 books, including "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11."

In the Sept. 11 attacks, armed terrorists hijacked four passenger jets. Two crashed into the World Trade Center in New York and a third crashed in a field in Pennsylvania.

According to the government, the fourth jet crashed into the Pentagon in Arlington, Va., although Griffin questions this and suggests the damage may have been caused by a military plane or missile.

Griffin operates from the basic premise that 19 Arab-Muslim hijackers could not have outwitted this country's extensive military defense system without inside help. Among his arguments:

* Fighter jets typically are sent out immediately upon any sign that a plane may have been hijacked. They usually arrive no later than 10 to 20 minutes. Yet in this case, the military failed to stop the attacks, then gave three conflicting versions of why it deviated from standard operating procedure, Griffin said.

* The Pentagon is probably the best-defended structure on the planet. How could a commercial airliner fly undetected and toward the Defense Department for 40 minutes and not be shot down by the Pentagon's anti-aircraft system?

* Bush lingered for more than 15 minutes at an elementary school after learning of the second jet crashing into the World Trade Center. Given that Bush's itinerary had been highly publicized, why wasn't the Secret Service concerned that he might be a target of a surprise terrorist attack?

"This behavior makes sense only if the head of the Secret Service detail knew that the planned attacks did not include an attack on the president. And how did they know this for certain unless the attacks were being carried out by people within our own government?" Griffin said.

* The straight-down, free-fall collapse of the World Trade Center buildings suggests a controlled demolition. A plane crash and fire could not have caused such a collapse, Griffin said.

These examples and others "are sufficient to suggest that there is no escape from the frightful conclusion that 9/11 was engineered by the Bush administration and its Pentagon," he said.

He closed by saying religious people must seek the truth about 9/11, create new means to spread the information and work to thwart Bush's attempts at global domination.

The crowd gave Griffin a standing ovation.

Rob Helfenstein, 41, a floor installer from Waukesha, came away convinced. "Governments have always used fake terror to manipulate their people," he said. "History hasn't changed."

But his friend, Dave Balistreri, 35, a construction consultant from Waukesha, said he entered and left the lecture hall skeptical. Although Balistreri said the Bush administration probably isn't telling the whole truth, "I think the level of complicity is much, much less than (Griffin) is suggesting."

_________________________________________________________________________________

THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC MAINSTREAM DAILY THE CAPITAL TIMES, NOT TO BE OUTDONE, PUBLISHED THEIR OWN OUTSTANDING STORY:
Theologian calls for response to 9/11
By Samara Kalk Derby
April 19, 2005
http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/local//index.php?ntid=36...

David Ray Griffin asks the tough questions about Sept. 11, contending U.S. officials had some knowledge of what was coming and possibly orchestrated the attacks.

Griffin, whose book, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11," came out a year ago, drew an enthusiastic standing ovation from the majority of the 400 or so people who packed his lecture Monday night at Bascom Hall.

A retired Christian theologian, Griffin, 65, taught for more than 30 years at the Claremont School of Theology in California.

His comments Monday night were directed at religious people, who he said need to respond to Sept. 11 - and the American empire that has ensued - based on the moral principles of their religious traditions.

Drawing laughter from the crowd, Griffin said he had in mind principles like: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors' oil" and "Thou shalt not murder thy neighbors in order to steal their oil."

While Griffin noted that his books and talks have not received attention from the mainstream media, C-SPAN had a cameraman at the event and plans to air the lecture at a future date. Madison's public access cable television station, WYOU-TV/Channel 4, meanwhile, will air the talk at 7 p.m. Thursday.

Americans interpret the events of Sept. 11 in one of four ways, Griffin said:

• A first group accepts the official interpretation that Sept. 11 was a surprise attack by Islamic terrorists. It is easy for these people "to think of America's so-called War on Terror as a just war," Griffin said.

• A second group accepts the official line but thinks Sept. 11 has beenused opportunistically by the Bush administration to extend the American empire. People who hold this view often believe that America's response to Sept. 11, which has led to hundreds of thousands of deaths, is far worse than the attacks themselves, he said.

• A third group believes the Bush administration knew the attacks were coming and let them happen. It shows the government as "deliberate and cold-blooded," advancing its imperial designs while hypocritically portraying itself as promoting a "culture of life," Griffin said.

Although there has been no national survey, a Zogby poll taken last year indicated that almost half of the residents of New York City share this view, he said.

• A fourth group believes that the government orchestrated the attacks. While no poll shows how many Americans believe this, polls in Canada and Germany have found as many as 20 percent of those populations do, Griffin said.

In his follow-up book, "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions," Griffin examines the questions that he and others in the "9/11 Truth Movement" charge were never examined by the federal
government's 9/11 Commission.

Evidence to support the theory that U.S. officials had at least had some foreknowledge of the attacks comes from David Schippers, the chief prosecutor for the impeachment of President Bill Clinton, who reportedly
received warnings from FBI agents about the attacks six weeks earlier, Griffin said.

Other government officials, including Attorney General John Ashcroft, would not respond to the warnings, he added.

There was the extraordinarily high volume of "put options" purchased in the three days before the attacks, Griffin said, with investors betting that stock in United and American Airlines - the two airlines used in the
attacks - would go down. There were also a suspiciously high number of put options for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, which occupied 22 stories of the World Trade Center.

"U.S. intelligence agencies monitor the market, partly to look for signs of impending attacks," Griffin said. "One wonders how information could be much more specific than this."

Griffin then made a case that government officials planned and executed the attacks.

For one, the United States military neglected to send fighter jets to intercept the hijacked planes. Such interceptions usually occur within 10to 20 minutes after the first signs of trouble and are routine, happening
about 100 times a year, Griffin said.

It seems implausible, he said, that the Pentagon was struck by Flight 77, since it is "surely the best defended building on the planet." The U.S. military has the best radar systems in the world and "does not miss anything occurring in North American airspace," he added.

Griffin also made a case that the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings was brought on by thousands of explosives placed throughout each of the buildings. They went straight down, at free-fall speed, as in controlled demolitions, and many people in the buildings reported that they heard or felt explosions, he added.

"High-rise steel-frame buildings have never - before or after 9/11- been caused to collapse by fire," he said.

Sue Adams, 50, introduced herself to Griffin after the talk, calling him heroic. "I think some day we may really know the truth," she said, adding that it will likely be after the Bush administration is gone.

Orion Litzau, a UW freshman studying engineering, agrees that the answers the government put out through the 9/11 Commission were more than a simple deception.

"They were not only partly false but a complete, bold face lie," he said. "David Ray Griffin brings out interesting points about what could be the true story behind the 9/11 attack."

Jim Goulding, 67, who teaches religious studies at Edgewood College, admitted at first he wondered whether Griffin was a crackpot, but instead found he had a "tremendous reputation as a theologian."

Goulding has read both of Griffin's Sept. 11 books.

"I think he makes a convincing case - well documented, well footnoted," he said.

E-mail: skalk (at) madison.com


See also:
http://mujca.com/news_and_feedback.htm
http://septembereleventh.org/

If Tucker Carlson had a dick, he'd be Ann Coulter

[MontageOfFreedom]

170. You are a true patriot David Griffin...Its time to end the facade

Combine this with nation-wide and documented election fraud, and the Bush plus fascist wall of china around the corruption will crumble into tiny, insignificant pieces.

http://www.votersunite.org http://www.bradblog.com http://www.yuricareport.com

Its all coming to a head and CNN is getting scared....

[chomskysright]

177. about those steel columns of WTC & why buildings fell so rapidly:

Probably the most conclusive evidence that each of the Twin Towers fell in a
controlled demolition is that the tops of the respective buildings reached the ground almost as
quickly as if they had fallen in a vacuum. From a height of 1,360 feet, an object falling in a
vacuum would take a little more than 9 seconds to reach the ground. As a matter of physics, if
the top parts of the buildings were not speeded in their descent by explosives weakening the
44
concrete and steel of the bottom 80 stories or so of the towers that lay in their respective paths,
the towers could not possibly have collapsed as quickly as they did. Some part of the energy
that, in a vacuum, would be available for falling downward at an accelerating rate would have to
be expended instead in tearing through the many stories of concrete and steel that lay between
the top of each WTC tower, and the street....


The Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, New York (in
Rockland County, roughly 21 miles or 34 km north of the WTC) recorded seismographs on 9-11
that show seismic events at the beginning of the collapse of each of the Twin Towers. There was
a 2.1 magnitude earthquake just as the South Tower began its 10-second collapse at 9:59:04, and
a 2.3 magnitude earthquake as the North Tower began its collapse at 10:28:31.....

http://www.911forthetruth.com/pdfs/Rodriguezvs.Bush%20.pdf


Phil Berg, attny: bloghttp://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/BergBlog.htm

[chomskysright]

179. Underwriter's Lab report: steel components of WTC:NOT WEAK STEEL

This letter is also on the web:
http://www.septembereleventh.org/newsarchive/2004-11-11-ryan.php

From: Kevin R Ryan/SBN/ULI
To: [email protected]
Date: 11/11/2004


Dr. Gayle,

Having recently reviewed your team's report of 10/19/04, I felt the need
to contact you directly.

As I'm sure you know, the company I work for certified the steel
components used in the construction of the WTC buildings. In requesting
information from both our CEO and Fire Protection business manager last
year, I learned that they did not agree on the essential aspects of the
story, except for one thing - that the samples we certified met all
requirements. They suggested we all be patient and understand that UL was
working with your team, and that tests would continue through this year.
I'm aware of UL's attempts to help, including performing tests on models
of the floor assemblies. But the results of these tests appear to
indicate that the buildings should have easily withstood the thermal
stress caused by pools of burning jet fuel.

There continues to be a number of "experts" making public claims about how
the WTC buildings fell. One such person, Dr. Hyman Brown from the WTC
construction crew, claims that the buildings collapsed due to fires at
2000F melting the steel (1). He states "What caused the building to
collapse is the airplane fuel.burning at 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The
steel in that five-floor area melts." Additionally, the newspaper that
quotes him says "Just-released preliminary findings from a National
Institute of Standards and Technology study of the World Trade Center
collapse support Brown's theory."

We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time
temperature curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed to
temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree, the
steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we can all
agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot
temperatures of nearly 3000F (2). Why Dr. Brown would imply that 2000F
would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sense at
all.

The results of your recently published metallurgical tests seem to clear
things up (3), and support your team's August 2003 update as detailed by
the Associated Press (4), in which you were ready to "rule out weak steel
as a contributing factor in the collapse". The evaluation of paint
deformation and spheroidization seem very straightforward, and you noted
that the samples available were adequate for the investigation. Your
comments suggest that the steel was probably exposed to temperatures of
only about 500F (250C), which is what one might expect from a
thermodynamic analysis of the situation.

However the summary of the new NIST report seems to ignore your findings,
as it suggests that these low temperatures caused exposed bits of the
building's steel core to "soften and buckle"(5). Additionally this
summary states that the perimeter columns softened, yet your findings make
clear that "most perimeter panels (157 of 160) saw no temperature above
250C". To soften steel for the purposes of forging, normally temperatures
need to be above1100C (6). However, this new summary report suggests that
much lower temperatures were be able to not only soften the steel in a
matter of minutes, but lead to rapid structural collapse.

This story just does not add up. If steel from those buildings did soften
or melt, I'm sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet
fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires in those
towers. That fact should be of great concern to all Americans.
Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures
around 250C suggests that the majority of deaths on 9/11 were due to a
safety-related failure. That suggestion should be of great concern to my
company.

There is no question that the events of 9/11 are the emotional driving
force behind the War on Terror. And the issue of the WTC collapse is at
the crux of the story of 9/11. My feeling is that your metallurgical
tests are at the crux of the crux of the crux. Either you can make sense
of what really happened to those buildings, and communicate this quickly,
or we all face the same destruction and despair that come from global
decisions based on disinformation and "chatter".

Thanks for your efforts to determine what happened on that day. You may
know that there are a number of other current and former government
employees that have risked a great deal to help us to know the truth. I've
copied one of these people on this message as a sign of respect and
support. I believe your work could also be a nucleus of fact around which
the truth, and thereby global peace and justice, can grow again. Please
do what you can to quickly eliminate the confusion regarding the ability
of jet fuel fires to soften or melt structural steel.

1. http://www.boulderweekly.com/archive/102104/coverstory.html
2. CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 61st edition, pg D-187
3. http://wtc.nist.gov/media/P3MechanicalandMetAnalysisofSteel.pdf
4. http://www.voicesofsept11.org/archive/911ic/082703.php
5. http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NCSTACWTCStatusFINAL101904WEB2.pdf (pg 11)
6. http://www.forging.org/FIERF/pdf/ffaaMacSleyne.pdf

Kevin Ryan

Site Manager
Environmental Health Laboratories
A Division of Underwriters Laboratories

[Frederik]

171. It's so simple!

"It’s so simple," Edmonds told TomFlocco.com. "Nobody is looking at the Department of Defense aspect of the whole 911 cover-up. The FBI is citing two reasons for my gag order: to protect ‘sensitive’ diplomatic relations and to protect foreign U.S. business relationships."

[chlamor]

184. ding ding ding!

You have just won a set of Britannia Encyclopedias

Who is the most powerful Ex-secretary of defense currently running this militarized zone- aka usa?

Who changed all the forms and functions of gov't emergency operating procedures?

Who was captain of his high school football team in Wyoming?

Whose wife sits on the board of.....

Dyncorp sure does some fine accounting don't they?

[Independent_Liberal]

173. There is a GOD!

I'm practically speechless. This is absolutely wonderful. Time to take action against this corrupt government.

I was wondering who our John Dean is and I think it's Sibel Edmonds.

[classics]

174. You have got to be kidding me.

Charges include that the pentagon was hit by a 'government controlled missile' and that the wtc towers were taken down by a 'cotrolled demolition'?

[Frederik]

189. There are

two entirely different lawsuits that have been mentioned in this thread.

Sibel Edmonds has sued the following:

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
10th Street and Constitution Ave., N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20530
and
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION,
9TH Street and Pennsylvania Ave., N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20535
and
JOHN ASHCROFT,
in his official capacity as Attorney General,
U.S. Department of Justice
10th Street and Constitution Ave., N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20530
and
ROBERT S. MUELLER, III,
in his official capacity as Director,
Federal Bureau of Investigation
9th Street and Pennsylvania Ave., N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20535
and
THOMAS FRIELDS,
in his official capacity as Supervisory Agent
in Charge, Washington Field Office,
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Fourth and F Streets, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20535
and
GEORGE STUKENBROKER,
in his official capacity as Chief of Security,
Washington Field Office
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Fourth and F Streets, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20530

...for being fired from the FBI after having blown the whistle on, among other things, espionage in the bureau that was protected by the upper echelons (Robert S. Mueller III), and that was possibly connected to 9/11. She has formed a coalition of by now 50 national security whistleblowers who have been fired from the FBI, CIA, NSA, FAA, DIA etc., many of them high-ranking and senior experts. They are calling for protection of national security whistleblowers and the right to sue specific wrongdoers if wrongly treated.

Sibel Edmonds is under a gag-order imposed by John Ashcroft, so she can't say what she knows for now, but she has hinted at and will not deny that while translating wiretaps and documents in the FBI, she learned that "no more than 10" well-known Americans were connected to money-laundering and financial preparations of the 9/11 attacks. She has also said that the FBI had very specific information, from several sources including a 10-year FBI informant, about the 9/11 plot and who was involved, but nothing was done to stop it. In fact, investgations into the hijackers were thwarted repeatedly by the FBI HQ, for instance Coleen Rowley's (sp?) investigation in Minneapolis of "20th hijacker" Moussaoui. She repeatedly told FBI HQ that she suspected him of planning to hijack an airplane and fly it into a building, and they did everything to stop her from investigating further.

Coleen Rowley is a part of Sibel Edmonds's coalition, and Edmonds has said that there were many other cases where FBI field agents were prevented by HQ from pursuing the hijackers and people connected to 9/11, even though the FBI headquarters had specific information about what was going to happen.

Several of the other members of the coalition have similar experiences, for instance former FBI agent Robert Wright, who is also under a gag order. Wright's case may ultimately lead to Dick Cheney.

"There's so much more. God, there's so much more. A lot more."
- Former FBI agent Robert Wright

The RICO lawsuit, which mentions missiles and controlled demolitions, is unrelated to Sibel Edmond's lawsuit and her whistleblower coalition. I am sceptical to this latter lawsuit, personally.

[chomskysright]

198. info re: Pentagon as 'hit by missile' (was broadcase on CNN)

http://thewebfairy.com/911/pentagon/27_1-mcintyre.swf

VIDEO: CNN reported no plane hit Pentagon --Check out this shockwave video file of a clip from CNN coverage on the morning of . CNN reporter Jamie McIntyre says he inspected the Pentagon site and it is obvious no plane crashed there. Clip archived by TheWebFairy.com; Transcript by Total911.info: "JAMIE MCINTYRE: From my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon. The only site, is the actual side of the building that's crashed in. And as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon and then caused the side to collapse. Even though if you look at the pictures of the Pentagon you see that the floors have all collapsed, that didn't happenm immediately. It wasn't until almost about 45 minutes later that the structure was weakened enough that all of the floors collapsed

[chomskysright]

199. Former RNC Insider and Bush Strategist Says He Has 9/11 'Smoking Gun

Former RNC Insider and Bush Strategist Says He Has 9/11 'Smoking Gun,' Proving Government Complicity

A conservative who once 'rubbed shoulders' with the Washington neo-cons also says America is now under a fascist rule and Bush must be impeached
April 16, 2005

By Greg Szymanski

A former Republican Party insider turned Bush basher thinks he has "stumbled across" what may be the "smoking gun," proving the U.S. government’s official story about the WTC attacks is an "unequivocal lie."

Karl Schwarz of Little Rock, Ark., who several years ago began exposing corruption amongst the neo-conservative movement in a book entitled "A One Way Ticket to Crawford, Texas," now has set his sights on proving government complicity in 9/11.

For years, the successful business entrepreneur and conservative republican, once asked by the RNC to run against President Clinton for Arkansas governor, has been using his inside political and business clout to expose corruption among the neo-cons in the Bush administration.

He strayed away from the Bush agenda two years after being one of the lead orchestrators in the Republican Party takeover of Congress during the Clinton administration.

"I designed the strategy that took the House and Senate from Clinton," recalls Schwarz, also a strong supporter and strategist for President George H. Bush. "I designed that takeover two years before I realized the Republican "Contract with America" was actually a "Contract on America."

After his political reawakening, he began blasting the neo conservatives where it hurt most – in their pocketbooks – coming forward with shocking evidence regarding shady oil deals and government involvement with the Taliban and Pakistan.

In his book and his ongoing seven-part series of articles entitled "Pop Goes the Bush Mythology Bubble," he provides inside information about countless financial scams, essentially revealing the Bush motive behind the Middle East invasion was more about oil profits than the war on terrorism.

Saying the neo-cons within the government are destroying America for their own corporate-global benefits, Schwarz doesn’t mince words and is calling for the outright impeachment of President Bush, as well as removal of any member of Congress who aids and abets the corrupt powers within the executive branch.

Now, moving away from financial corruption, he has turned his attention to the 9/11 truth movement, saying he has found a piece of obscure video footage which will conclusively show that the government lied about what type of plane struck the South Tower of the WTC.

As most detectives and investigators will readily attest, uncovering incriminating evidence involves 90 percent perseverance and 10 percent luck, Schwarz admits he had a "whole lot" of the later when running across the video footage in a French foreign film entitled "The Barbarian Invasion."

Contained in the film unrelated to 9/11, is a 1:52 second video segment, shot by an unknown amateur photographer at the WTC, which Schwartz says clearly shows a 737 airliner striking the south Tower, not a 767 Boeing jet as previously reported by the government.

"We tracked down the filmmaker and he acquired the original WTC segment from the Canadian News Service," said Schwarz, adding that he has had the tape analyzed by experts proving it’s not a fake. "We are tracking down the original photographer and want to get to him before the government does in order to prove its authenticity.

"This segment, however, conclusively shows a 737 hit the South Tower, not the 767 like previously reported. This in itself should be the smoking gun, which proves the whole story given to us by the government about 9/11 is untrue."


http://www.arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/articles/article/1518131/24248.htm

[Gloria]

178. KICK!!!

eom

[NVMojo]

186. Kick and sign the petition!

http://www.justacitizen.com/

[Lochloosa]

188. KICK

[G_j]

191. kick

[Lochloosa]

193. kick

[G_j]

206. this got moved too????

yikes!

[seemslikeadream]

208. OUT OF THE BLUE AND INTO THE BLACK

"Out Of The Blue"

My my, hey hey
Rock and roll is here to stay
It's better to burn out
Than to fade away
My my, hey hey.

Out of the blue
and into the black
They give you this,
but you pay for that
And once you're gone,
you can never come back
When you're out of the blue
and into the black.

The king is gone
but he's not forgotten
This is the story
of a Johnny Rotten
It's better to burn out
than it is to rust
The king is gone
but he's not forgotten.

Hey hey, my my
Rock and roll can never die
There's more to the picture
Than meets the eye.
Hey hey, my my.

NEIL

[Minstrel Boy]

210. Here's some Neil that seems sadly appropriate now:

Livin' on the edge of night
You know the sun won't go down slow
You don't know which drug is right
Can't decide which way you wanna go
I feel the way you feel
'Cause not so long ago
It had a hold on me
I couldn't let it go
It wouldn't set me free
It wouldn't set me free
No more, no more, no more.

Seemed like the easy thing
To let it go for one more day
Like singin' the same old song
And twistin' the words
In a different way
Where did the magic go
I searched high and low
I can't find it no more
I can't get it back
I can't find it no more
I can't find it no more
No more, no more, no more, no more.

Searchin' for quality
Havin' to have the very best
Now scroungin' for quantity
Never havin' time
To do the test
That's how the story goes
Can't put it down
Till the last page
I can't put it down
I can't put it down
I can't put it down.

[seemslikeadream]

211. Minstrel Boy right this second I'm listening to Long May You Run!

Geeezz now you've gone and made me cry again. I had enough of that this morning.


We’ve been through some things together
With trunks of memories still to come
We found things to do in stormy weather
Long may you run.

Long may you run.
Long may you run.
Although these changes have come
With your chrome heart shining in the sun
Long may you run.

Well, it was back in blind river in 1962
When I last saw you alive
But we missed that shift on the long decline
Long may you run.

Long may you run.
Long may you run.
Although these changes have come
With your chrome heart shining in the sun
Long may you run.

Maybe the beach boys have got you now
With those waves singing caroline no
Rollin’ down that empty ocean road
Gettin’ to the surf on time.

Long may you run.
Long may you run.
Although these changes have come
With your chrome heart shining in the sun
Long may you run.

Listen to The Drive's Deep Tracks
http://www.wdrv.com/

Oh God now they're playin' Elton and Bernie



I can see very well
There's a boat on the reef with a broken back
And I can see it very well
There's a joke and I know it very well
It's one of those that I told you long ago
Take my word I'm a madman don't you know

Once a fool had a good part in the play
If it's so would I still be here today
It's quite peculiar in a funny sort of way
They think it's very funny everything I say
Get a load of him, he's so insane
You better get your coat dear
It looks like rain

We'll come again next Thursday afternoon
The In-laws hope they'll see you very soon
But is it in your conscience that you're after
Another glimpse of the madman across the water

I can see very well
There's a boat on the reef with a broken back
And I can see it very well
There's a joke and I know it very well
It's one of those that I told you long ago
Take my word I'm a madman don't you know

The ground's a long way down but I need more
Is the nightmare black
or are the windows painted
Will they come again next week
Can my mind really take it.


:loveya:

[G_j]

212. that is how it feels

(you always quote great songs BTW ) :-)

[Frederik]

209. Yes, it

only concerns the tinfoil crowd, don't you know.

On the other hand, in the Sept 11 forum, it is going to stay on the first page longer.

[seemslikeadream]

214. I don't understand