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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:36 AM
Original message
Chemtrails (Operation Cloverleaf) . . .
Edited on Sat Mar-19-05 10:37 AM by OneBlueSky
http://www.whale.to/b/chemtrails.html


NASA image shows intricate web of chemtrails over the US

Chemical incapacitants have been developed that affect the mental functions of the mind in various ways. Today, research and deployment continues of chemical and radioactive substances that can control people. One of the methods that chemical and radioactive materials work is to change genetic structures. Some of the genetic changes that can be created chemically, are chemical changes that affect the way the mind thinks. In a nutshell, we are looking at a situation where the thinking of an entire race could be altered via chemicals dropped into their air and water. How long would these genetic changes last? It is conceivable that some of the changes might have long range consequences. Again, the bottom line is that the World Order has at its disposal radioactive substances that can distributed in conjunction with chemicals to mind-control large geographic regions by genetic manipulation. These radioactive substances and chemicals can be distributed over vast areas by the air and water of a geographic region. It is conceivable that within a short time, the United States will experience chemicals administered via the air, or the drinking water used in conjunction with specific external stimuli to reinforce certain types of mind-control programming on a mass of people. A chemical that makes people susceptible to suggestion could be used over a geographic area while hypnotic television messages and ELF waves, etc. contribute to the mind-control operation.

http://www.whale.to/b/chemtrails.html

on edit: see also . . .

Aerosol and Electromagnetic Weapons in the Age of Nuclear War
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/WOR406A.html

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osiristz Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. chemtrails
I've been watching this stuff go on overhead for over 10 years. I've always wondered what the government would say if someone took one of these 'jets' out with a nice stinger missile.

What jet? there was no jet?
But the debris?
Oh....that was just space junk that got through the atmosphere.

Never, EVER, trust your government
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CityZen-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. Chemtrails Work
All those who support Bu$h*t are living proof that Chemtrails work!
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. Two questions come to mind: Is it possible? Would they do it?
Edited on Sat Mar-19-05 11:29 AM by Skip Intro
I'm inclined to believe it is possible, and probably something that has been tested for decades.

So it, for me, boils down to, "would they do it?"

Would the bush regime, or the hidden powers that control the bush regime (and probably some other recent presidencies), use it to achieve their goals?

I have no doubt they would.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I know from my own eyes that they are doing something
And as a citizen of the United States i command them to stop violating my free will, the free will of my fellow citizens. Whatever the Hell you are doing, you have not asked our permission. For this transgression of free will, you will pay the maximum karmic consequences. This is the original law. And this, if you think on it in the depths of your soul, you will know. Stop now.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. cloverleaf?
sounds like someone is after the Irish leprechaun's pot o'gold....
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. The one conclusion I am able to draw is:
artificial cloud cover is being deliberately generated by jet aircraft over North America and a good portion of the rest of the planet. Of course, this leads to hundreds more questions, so let's start with the Five W's of Journalism:

Who?
What?
When?
Where?
Why?

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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. I fail to see how chemtrails apply to 9/11
Whether or not chemtrails pose a threat to our existence is not relevant to the discussion about 9/11 which is clearly the slated topic of this forum.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. as the one who started this thread, I was thinking the same thing . . .
there is no connection to 9/11 (except peripherally, perhaps) . . . why this was moved to this forum is beyond me . . .
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. unfortunately...they stick chemtrail threads here cause they don't know
what else to do with them.

Since so many people on this site seem unable to see what is right over their own heads, they seem to feel this whole chemtrail subject belongs in the 911 cellar with the other :tinfoilhat: folks.

I think its a damn shame that they call us nuts just because we want to find out whats happening in our skies....

I mean who in their right mind trusts what TPTB/gov't/media tells us anymore...

You'd think this would go in the science forum since we are simply asking for some serious answers......beyond "you're crazy" or "its CONtrails stupid" or "you are so lacking in scientific education and/or lacking critical thinking skills that you can't comprehend simple vapor trails"...just read some of the other threads still extant in the MR if you want examples of some of the condescending attitudes prevalent here....

Me...I just have a lot of questions from observing these unusual patterns overhead day after day...... :shrug:
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. anyone who watches the skies and denies that chemtrails exist . . .
is either blind or an idiot . . . those that say they are nothing but contrails have no explanation for the fact that they're dispersed in checkerboard patterns all over the sky, well outside established commercial flight corridors . . .

have you noticed that there are no clear skies anymore? . . . any day that starts with a clear blue sky is quickly overwhelmed with chemtrails until the blue totally gives way to complete overcast . . . next time you see blue sky in the morning, keep watching and see what happens . . .
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. They are already gone this morning
those hateful X's and a filmy "cloud" covering all over...the usual pale sunshine....I really miss my electric blue AZ skies....we have more chemtrailed days than clear ones now and it is so sad.....

I notice them at night, too...

I want to know what they are doing and WHY.
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Sweet Pea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Center, Golf Romeo 102, Request INS Direct.....
"well outside established commercial flight corridors . . . "

More and more aircrtaft these days are able to proceed direct to their destinations or intermediate destinations via inertia navigation system rather than stay on published jet routes. I've taken off out of Long Island headed for the west coast and insted of sticking with our filed flight plan of proceeding to CYN via J-37 to SPA for an approach into , as soon as we can we'd call Center and ask for INS Direct to Memphis.

The fact that more aircraft are flying at altitude off published jet routes means nothing in my estimation.
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exploited Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-05 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. There is a connection to 911 & that pic > Global Dimming
Saw an interesting BBC documentary on the subject of Global Dimming. Should start another thread on the topic but can't be bothered bringing it all together.
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2005/s1325819.ht...

Firstly, does anyone seriously believe they are chemtrails? Surely they are contrails formed by normal daily jet traffic. These days, the high levels of small pollution particles in the atmosphere cause clouds to develop more readily than the past. The contrails also develop better because of this affect and often grow into clouds themselves. The increased cloud coverage as well as the particles of pollution and contrails combine to reflect more sunlight than in the past. The result is that there is significantly less sunlight reaching the earth's surface compared to 30 years ago.

Global Dimming is the counterpart to Global Warming. It effectively cushions Global Warming by making it appear less serious or less noticable because the potential amount of sunlight to hit and warm the Earth is less than it could be. That means, if we reduce pollution by a significant amount, Global Warming will accelerate. So the paradox exists that whilst we have to reduce greenhouse gasses, we cannot afford to stop anything that will reduce the pollution which is currently protecting us.

THE CONNECTION to 911?
According to scientists, in the 3 days following the event when all US air traffic was grounded, no contrials were visible, the days seemed brighter and most significantly, the average US temperature rose by 1 degree Celcius over the period. It may not seem like much, but plotted on a climate graph of the last 30 years, 9/11 shows a significant peak in temperature.

It just gets better and better doesn't it?

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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-05 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Does anyone seriously believe they are Chemtrails?
Yes, I do. Quite seriously. I have been watching contrails for almost fifty years. Until 1999, they invariably dissipated within a minute or less. Suddenly, in 1999, they began to linger for hours and expand laterally? I don't think so.

Then, there's the business of all the intersecting trails: on some days, one can observe veritable wheel spokes in the sky. There will be six or eight trails crossing through a central point. Sudden, almost ninety-degree alterations in flight paths may also be seen.

All the explanations involving "peristent contrails" violate Occam's Razor. Arguments detailing all the factors that enable contrails to linger and expand are much more complicated than the argument in favor of trails (artificial cloud cover) being deliberately generated.

:tinfoilhat:
dbt
Committee On Noticing Spray Programs Involving Real Aircraft Calculated Yearly
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exploited Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-05 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. That's it! You've cracked the code
Your government is deliberately generating contrails (not chemtrails -- too complex for Occum right?) to form artificial cloud coverage so they can mask the effects of Global Warming and convince everyone that it doesn't exist.

Here's a more Occum friendly explanation IMO. The passenger aircraft are already there. More of them are flying higher and faster than ever before and at various altitudes. Air currents differ at different altitudes. Clouds already form by themselves when water vapour condenses onto particles in the air. Population growth causes air pollution growth. Aircraft create contrails (linear clouds).

Here's Occum on the wagonwheel effect. Several aircraft can use the same landmark to guide navigation. Your suggestion that someone deliberately undertook a secret mission to create whatevertrails in a wagonwheel shape clearly fails Occums rule.




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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-05 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. And these would be the "more passenger aircraft"
that are flying on behalf of a cash-strapped industry that has been undergoing cutbacks almost monthly since 9/11?

And the "navigation landmarks" would be out here in the wilds of Arkansas?

And you presume to tell me about "failing Occum's rule?"

Thank you for saving me.

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exploited Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-05 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Don't care much for Occum myself
You introduced it. I only presume you will make something of it.

But, now you've spooked me by introducing the pre-post 9/11 scenario. Didn't you start noticing changes in 1999 (pre 911). Is the industry 'cash-strapped' now because airlines have been flying far more flights than necessary, even at half capacity (on 911 & since)?

You imply that you live in a featureless wasteland. That must make the strange goings-on in the sky all the more compelling. So I assume you must have witnessed a wagonwheel forming. Have you also witnessed one of those ninety-degree contrails being formed (by something other than an aerobatic plane trailing smoke at an airshow)?

Can you explain why contrails dissipated before 1999, but lingered/expanded after? Are they using different chemicals; or has the atmosphere reached some kind of saturation point and begun showing profound changes. I presume it must be a climatic issue but because they are your observations I shall reserve judgement pending your interpretation.

Occum's razor awaits.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I need make nothing of Occam's Razor.
It has been invoked many times in the discussion of Chemtrails at DU, mostly to demonstrate that there is a "rational, scientific explanation" for the goings-on in the sky. Occam's Razor holds that, given two explanations for the same observation, the simpler of the two is to be preferred.

Explanations for the persistence of "contrails" based on sudden climatic shifts, increased airline traffic, new fuel formulations, etc have reached the point where they are now the more complicated of two possible scenarios--and thus fail the very Razor that was invoked initially in their defense.

Of course I have seen the "wagon wheels" being formed and the near-right-angle turns. They seemed unusual enough to bear reporting. Further, I am at a loss to explain why contrails dissipated before 1999 and suddenly stopped doing so. That is one of the great points of this whole discussion.

Speaking of which, thank you so much for helping keep this subject near the top of this Forum!
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exploited Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. You "need make nothing of Occum's Razor" except pay it lip service
You discount one possible explanation outright yet you provide no alternative; in fact you are 'at a loss to explain'.

If you've read my previous posts you can see that I have at least described a possible set of existing circumstances that may give rise to this hysteria -- most notably, increasing atmospheric particulate contamination which provides seed for cloud formation. This is established science and can be widely referenced.

I'm asking you to offer a less complex explanation -- and thus prove the very Razor which you invoked :D. It's your prerogative to keep this discussion going.

Contrive a CONSPIRACY if you must, but be aware that the existing scenario becomes more complex simply by introducing additional aircraft, let alone aircraft participating in an ongoing programme of missions to disperse chemicals with some clandestine intent.

In fact, cutting things right to the bone, you are just as negatively/positively/indifferently affected by "chemtrails" as the masterminds who create them (unless there is also an antidote pill :D).
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Here's your less complex explanation, then:
Jet aircraft are generating artificial cloud cover.

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exploited Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. No shit Sherlock
No CONSPIRACY there.

More to the point, jet exhaust contrails can persist longer than they have been observed to in the past.

Science can describe some plausible (though not necessarily definitive) reasons for this.

Now, considering the situation already exists (thousands of jets legitimately fly daily), it is ludicrous to suggest a conspiracy exists to do the same thing.







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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. chemtrails, fibromyalgia, weather
I am new to this phenomenon, but since I am ill and have been since approximately 1997 - 1998, I am very curious.

I haven't ploughed through everything there is on the subject, but from what I can see, some people think they are trying to change the weather. some people have analyzed the stuff and found bacteria, and say many people got sick. some people think it's for mind control.

Is anyone here expert on the subject? Someone that can explain all these different theories, and what has been going on?

I know it's a lot to ask, but I've been trying to get up to speed on the subject, and am failing at it.

I would really appreciate it.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. that's the problem for me, too . . . there are many theories . . .
abut what's being sprayed and why, but I have no basis for discriminating among them . . . all I know is that someone's spraying something, and doing it very regularly . . . and since it seems to be a secret, I can only assume that it's not good for children and other living things . . .
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dwckabal Donating Member (854 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. Of course, there's no way
this photograph could have been doctored or faked in any way...

:think:
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. would it concern you if it is not...
fake or doctored in any way?
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dwckabal Donating Member (854 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Not necessarily,
because my first reaction would not be, "Oh my God, I'm being poisoned by the government!"

While I've read a copious amount of anecdotal "evidence" from people who claim to become ill every time a plane flies over, there is no credible evidence that I can find to support even a fraction of what you are claiming is taking place. I'm supposed to lend credibility to things like this?

the World Order has at its disposal radioactive substances that can distributed in conjunction with chemicals to mind-control large geographic regions by genetic manipulation.

Yes, unfortunately, there are radioactive substances available. Can/are they being used to mind-control people through genetic manipulation? Highly unlikely.

have you noticed that there are no clear skies anymore? . . . any day that starts with a clear blue sky is quickly overwhelmed with chemtrails until the blue totally gives way to complete overcast . . . next time you see blue sky in the morning, keep watching and see what happens . . .

No clear skies? I wake up almost every morning to clear blue skies, which remain both clear and blue throughout the day. In fact, since I've moved to Southern California (supposedly a hotbed of chemtrail activity), I've been able to quit taking my asthma medication. Hmm, maybe those planes are spraying Flovent...

On the other hand, there are many articles that analyze this phenomena rationally and using the scientific method to come to a reasonable conclusion for what we see in the sky.

http://users.erols.com/igoddard/contrail.htm

You claim to be asking for some "serious answers", yet when presented with said answers, you dismiss them simply because you don't like the person giving the answers, or worse, simply cannot accept the fact that these patterns in the sky have terribly mundane explanations.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-05 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Clear, blue skies in Southern California?
You might want to thank a fellow named Don Croft for that. (It's not like he's done it himself; there are quite a few people helping him and it has been a massive effort.)

Before you Google him, you should be advised that you will be going into Deep Tinfoil Territory. He will be advocating the most outrageous tools and methods--stuff that cannot possibly work because it is so far outside of Science.

He will actually claim to have cleaned up the skies of Southern California. On the one hand, that has to be bullshit. On the other hand, them skies sure are purty...

:tinfoilhat:
dbt
Committee On Noticing Spray Programs Involving Real Aircraft Calculated Yearly
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. Good film on chemtrails
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-05 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. WWII chemtrails



The above photograph is courtesy of The Churchill Society. The contrails of fighters overhead St.Paul's Cathedral in London during the height of the Battle of Britain added a reassuring sign that the pilots of Fighter Command were hard at work. The lattice of condensation trails marked the paths of RAF Spitfires and Luftwaffe Bf109s engaged in mortal combat during the long summer of 1940 at altitudes in excess of 30,000 feet.



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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-05 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
20. This must be a world wide conspiricy

The Netherlands, October 14, 2003


Denmark, August 12, 2003


Denmark, August 8, 2003


British Isles, June 25, 2001

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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
22. It's good to see Republicans and Democrats working together..
If this has been going on for so long then Clinton, Carter and other democrats in power were briefed and agreed with their republican successors to continue this top secret program. Do you really think this happened?
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madison2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
23. How do the people in charge of this keep from being affected by it
themselves? :bounce: :bounce:
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