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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:28 PM
Original message
Time for Obama to Act to End Police-State Violence Against the Occupiers
Edited on Tue Nov-22-11 09:31 PM by Better Believe It
Time for Obama to Act to End Police-State Violence Against the Occupiers
By Dave Lindorff
November 21, 2011

The Obama presidency has been one of the greatest disasters for progressives in modern history, as a man who ran for office promising change and a new respect for the Constitution, almost immediately picked up where his predecessor had left off, escalating the countrys illegal wars, enlarging the share of the nations wealth going to the Pentagon and to the secret intelligence services, shoveling money to the biggest banks, endorsing the torture abuses at Guantanamo and at the many CIA black-sites around the world, authorizing the summary execution of American citizens abroad, and ignoring the looming catastrophe of global climate change.

It took some time, but out of this wreckage and betrayal, a movement has arisen, led by young people many of them the very young people who worked so tirelessly for Obama. Now they are boldly demanding a government that works on behalf of the majority, not of the rich and powerful.

For their efforts, they are being assaulted by a police force that has been turned, over the last decade of a fraudulent, trumped-up War on Terror, into a kind of American Gestapo, that polices communities with assault weapons, breaks into homes wearing masks, beats and gasses people without even bothering to arrest them, kills unarmed citizens with impunity, and considers criticism of its actions tantamount to a crime in itself, meriting assault and/or arrest.

Obama has overseen and even been the author of much of this disaster, but he still has a choice at this point: Either put an immediate stop to this outrage, by inserting the National Guard between these thugs in blue or black, and the people, and start listening and responding to the demands of the Occupy Movement, or go down to defeat next November as the man who buried American democracy and freedom.

Read the full article at:

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. We voted for Hope and Change, got Fear and Loathing. n/t
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. "one of the greatest disasters for progressives in modern history"
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well past time. K&R
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I think that's how we must now view big city police departments. Just a modern day Gestapo.

Serving and protecting the rich.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
96. +1
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. So a republican winning in November 2012 is going to preserve democracy and freedom?
Absolutely one of the most brilliant fucking pieces of analysis that I have ever read. I will print many copies of it and take it to my toilet, where it will meet what it deserves.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I just do not understand why with some people it is eithor/or
if one finds fault with the President then they must be for the republicans

Follow the leader for he knows where they lead
don't like where they are going, too bad, just follow anyway
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. No. I don't want eight fucking years of Bush III. At least I can see the potential avalanche. nt
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I am sorry but you lost me
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. We're on Bush Jr's third term, already n/t
Edited on Tue Nov-22-11 10:49 PM by brentspeak
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. How sad that we have people here in DU that are as gullible as the republicons. nm
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. Unrec twinkles...


Keep trying

Sid
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. GD has been doused in extra special SPECIALNESS the last few days
Some of the posts and responses have been downright manic lately. Must be all of the news about the president's base having his back just as strong as they did in 2008, the insane amount of money he's raised and his strong support from Democrats and liberals.

I think it's driving some folks a little bit batty.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
89. "the insane amount of money he's raised"
Edited on Wed Nov-23-11 12:28 PM by JackRiddler
hey, you said that. Confusing money with virtue, are we?

According to http://www.barackobama.com/pages/volunteer-fundraisers-... here is the group of individuals who have raised (by bundling) $500,000 or more each:

(1) Anna Wintour (New York City)
(2) Frank White Jr. (Washington, DC)
(3) Andrew Tobias (Miami, FL)
(4) Jane Stetson (Norwich, VT)
(5) Andy Spahn (Los Angeles, CA)
(6) Michael Smith (Los Angeles, CA)
(7) Robert Sherman (Boston, MA)
(8) Eugene Sepulveda (Austin, TX)
(9) Kirk Rudy (Austin, TX)
(10) Azita Raji (Belvedere, CA)
(11) Charles Myers (New York City)
(12) Noah Mahmet (Los Angeles, CA)
(13) Andres Lopez (San Juan, Puerto Rico)
(14) Orin Kramer (Englewood, California)
(15) Lena and John Kennedy (Pasadena, CA)
(16) Michael Kempner (Cresskill, NJ)
(17) Jeffrey Katzenberg (Universal City, CA)
(18) Steven Green (Miami Beach, FL)
(19) Mark and Nancy Gilbert (Boca Raton, FL)
(20) John Emerson (Beverly Hills, CA)
(21) Blair Effron (New York City)
(22) Jon Corzine (Hoboken, NJ)
(23) Jack and Eileen Connors (Boston, Mass)
(24) David and Rhonda Cohen (Philadelphia, PA)
(25) Marc Benioff (San Francisco, CA)
(26) Denise Bauer (Belvedere Tiburon, CA)
(27) Rob Barber (Cambridge, Mass)

Let's play spot the banksters!
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. Meaningless. Utterly idiotic post
If you had a point, it would probably be stupid too. Good thing you don't have a point.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. Labels trump reason, right? Are you hoping people read only the titles?
Edited on Wed Nov-23-11 06:30 PM by JackRiddler
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. I note the insane amount of money that Obama has raised
and you immediately pipe in with your "spot the banksters" inanity.

Never mind the number of regular Americans who are donating to him, huh? Forget the number of poor, minority, gay, blue collar folks, folks living in big cities and small towns that are giving hand over fist for the man because they believe in him, right?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-outpaces-g...
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/10/lgbt-raising-bi...
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/09/obamas-dono...

You want to focus SOLELY on the bankers that are donating to the president. That's your choice. But in your desperation to see only that which already fits into your uninformed and small-minded preconceived notions, you are definitely going to miss the big picture. But I get the distinct impression that you are perfectly okay with that. Like I said, being uninformed is your choice.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yes.... Violence against peaceful protesters is stupid....
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm not there yet, I think it's a good thing that mayors and UC chancellors are being exposed as...
...the tools that they are.

That we are witnessing the weak leadership we have locally.

That we are finding even greater resolve at more local levels.

It isn't time, not yet, for heavy handed Federal Intervention.

Not yet.

`````

And remember, if we set that precedent, the next time the Feds intervene it might be to protect the police.

Nope, I'm loving the progress we're making just as it is and I thank the president for keeping a measured distance.

Maybe later.

:patriot:
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I'm not there yet either. Even though I am totally disappointed
with Pres. Obama, there is no way in Hell I'm going to vote for anyone else that's in this race. As an elderly person on Medicare and soc sec, I shudder to think what the Republicans will do to both. I don't have any answers, but I know what I don't want to happen.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
41. So how many protestors have to be permanently maimed before you think
the president should speak out, not "interfere" just speak out?

And why was this thread moved to never-never land? Is this censorship right here in DU city?
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. There are local and state laws that provide recourse. The president does NOT get...
...involved in every single crime against a person by a public agency.

It just doesn't.

It couldn't.

It has to reach an entirely more severe level before federal intervention becomes appropriate.

It's pretty obvious and pretty simple if you look at the historical context and consider the vastness of this country.

:donut:
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. What you said is not wrong. Presidents should not get involoved in individual
crimes. But this is a movement. Thousands of protestors are being brutalized. Hundreds are being injured, some permanently. The Constitution is being ignored on a national level.

My question is, at what point does the president speak out? Remember he has spoken out about the police abuse in other countries, why not this country?
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. I have a leadership position where I work... Often, a leader has to let the system work.
There are several lower levels of management here that should be working: governors and mayors, for example.

Obama stays a bit out of it to see if these entities are working.

At some point, if they fail miserably enough, he steps in.

I think the time will come, and I hope he steps up.

:hi:
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #44
90. I also hope he steps up. Have a great Thanksgiving. nm
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. Dave Lindorff is a fucking moron
Edited on Tue Nov-22-11 10:08 PM by ProSense
<....>

The Obama presidency has been one of the greatest disasters for progressives in modern history...It took some time, but out of this wasteland of wreckage and betrayal... over the last decade of a fraudulent, trumped-up "War" on Terror, into a kind of American Gestapo, that "polices" communities with assault weapons, breaks into homes wearing masks, beats and gasses people without even bothering to arrest them, kills unarmed citizens with impunity, and considers criticism of its actions tantamount to a crime in itself, meriting assault and/or arrest--and that views peaceful public protest as inherently criminal behavior...Obama has overseen and even been the author of much of this disaster, but he still has a choice at this point: Either put an immediate stop to this outrage, by inserting the National Guard between these thugs in blue or black, and the people, and start listening and responding to the demands of the Occupy Movement, or go down to defeat next November as the man who buried American democracy and freedom.


What utter drivel! Who the hell takes this shit seriously?

Then with the moronic image:


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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Wow. When you have to resort to creating images like that to make your point
It's obvious that you have no point to make at all. That image looks as though it was done by a visually impaired fetus.

Just when I thought the snipped idiocy from that article would be the peak of stupidity in this thread.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Well,
how else are you going to prove that Obama single-handedly destroyed democracy over the last decade if you don't produce a photo of him pepper spraying a crowd?

Anti-Obama spasms!

:rofl:

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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. LOL. It gets better if you scroll to the bottom of the blog
Check out our new T-shirt, which you can order. Watch the reactions you get as people read the logo "This Can't Be Happening!" and our newest motto: "a major distabilizing influence."


:rofl:
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. That web site's name beautifully expresses how I feel about the stuff they post...
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I was wondering where you would turn up. The country is on fire and you still
worship Obama. He is in charge and we have a police state. People are getting their brains bashed or their spleens burst or pepper spray down their throats and Obama fiddles. Why should he care about the 99% when he has Jeff Immelt telling him what to do.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. You're mistaken
"I was wondering where you would turn up. The country is on fire and you still worship Obama.

...I abhor idiots.


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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Yes but you worship corporatists if they wrap themselves in a cloak of Democrat. nm
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. No
"Yes but you worship corporatists if they wrap themselves in a cloak of Democrat."

...I laugh at fools who make stupid statements.

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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Yet you wont commit yourself. Whose side are you on? nm
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Hint:
"Yet you wont commit yourself. Whose side are you on?"

Not the fools!

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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Since there are only two sides, I have to assume you are calling the 99% as the "fools".
And you are not on our side. You see there isnt a middle side. You either side with us "fools" or the 1% (Jeff Immelt).
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Well,
"Since there are only two sides, I have to assume you are calling the 99% as the 'fools'."

...that made me laugh! There are a lot of fools in every class.

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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Your defense is to label my statements as stupid. OWS is in the streets because after three
years of a Democratic president Wall Street still rules.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Got
"Your defense is to label my statements as stupid."

...a complex? Maybe I was referring to the OP in response to your assertion.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. So do you think Pres Obama supports the 99% with Geitner, Bernanke and Immelt
by his side? How many people need to get maimed or killed by the police state in the USofA before pres Obama speaks out?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. You'll
"So do you think Pres Obama supports the 99% with Geitner, Bernanke and Immelt"

...have to make up your own mind.

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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. I have made up my mind. I support the people and you support Jeff Immelt.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Well.
"I have made up my mind. I support the people and you support Jeff Immelt."

...OK then, it's your mind.



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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. Did your brilliant, fact-filled rebutal suceed in convincing anyone to your POV?
:rofl:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Actually
Edited on Tue Nov-22-11 10:56 PM by ProSense
"Did your brilliant, fact-filled rebutal suceed in convincing anyone to your POV?"

...it wasn't intended to. I mean, if someone wants to believe the OP, image and all, what's to argue?

The comment was simply my humble opinion: Lindorff is a fucking moron.

:rofl:

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. It appears to have convinced the mods to move your OP to the 9/11 dungeon...
I'd say that's a bit of a victory...
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Clever they do it without saying a word. nm
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #39
88. Twice even.
:rofl:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
30. Just the opposite is much more likely .... !!!
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
45. Time for President Obama to Act to End Police-State Violence Against the Occupiers
Time for Obama to Act to End Police-State Violence Against the Occupiers
By Dave Lindorff
November 21, 2011

The Obama presidency has been one of the greatest disasters for progressives in modern history, as a man who ran for office promising change and a new respect for the Constitution, almost immediately picked up where his predecessor had left off, escalating the countrys illegal wars, enlarging the share of the nations wealth going to the Pentagon and to the secret intelligence services, shoveling money to the biggest banks, endorsing the torture abuses at Guantanamo and at the many CIA black-sites around the world, authorizing the summary execution of American citizens abroad, and ignoring the looming catastrophe of global climate change.

It took some time, but out of this wreckage and betrayal, a movement has arisen, led by young people many of them the very young people who worked so tirelessly for Obama. Now they are boldly demanding a government that works on behalf of the majority, not of the rich and powerful.

For their efforts, they are being assaulted by a police force that has been turned, over the last decade of a fraudulent, trumped-up War on Terror, into a kind of American Gestapo, that polices communities with assault weapons, breaks into homes wearing masks, beats and gasses people without even bothering to arrest them, kills unarmed citizens with impunity, and considers criticism of its actions tantamount to a crime in itself, meriting assault and/or arrest.

Obama has overseen and even been the author of much of this disaster, but he still has a choice at this point: Either put an immediate stop to this outrage, by inserting the National Guard between these thugs in blue or black, and the people, and start listening and responding to the demands of the Occupy Movement, or go down to defeat next November as the man who buried American democracy and freedom.

Read the full article at:

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/913
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Yes, he should. But no, he won't.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. pathetic
Lindorff
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. K/R
But we know that he won't do that.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. In the first place, all of these Occupy protests take place
in jurisdictions other than federal, so the President cannot direct what happens. In the second place, nationalizing the National Guard in those places is not something any President is likely to do in this situation.

For those reasons, I'm unrecommending this thread, because the writer quoted doesn't understand what a President can and cannot do.
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #49
54. We'll, i'll recommend it, then
There's plenty he can do, beginning with speaking out.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. 'one of the greatest disasters for progressives in modern history' bwahahahahahaaa
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Erose999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. Rec'd. "Homeland Security" has militarized our police forces. And now these idot mayors like Kassim

Reed and Jean Quan and Bloomberg have fucking private armies at their beck and call. Fuck the police state.

I'm listening to last nights GOP debate. This shit is only going to get worse because the god damn Teabaggers are all for it.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
52. Unrec twinkles...


Keep trying.

Sid
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Reccing just for the meddling
And the rude, and the vulgar, which seems to be the only palette the 'supporters' have to work with. How are the Occupations in Canada, your home and native land, going Sid?
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. Posting at DU is meddling? Who knew?...nt
Sid
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #53
67. We do not attack people because of the place they live on DU.
At least that's what I understand. How about discussing the issue rather than the poster?
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
55. Didn't you already post this once, and have it moved to the Sept 11 forum?...
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
57. There are those that concentrate on the messenger rather than
the validity of the message.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #57
63. The "messenger's"
agenda has been exposed, repeatedly.

Fair game.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. So your position on the message is that the president should remain
silent through the violence?
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #65
68. Strawman aside....
I responded to "messenger" issue you invoked in your post.

It's a matter of credibility, or in this case the lack thereof.



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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #68
74. And my observation then no longer stands?
It is easy to say I disagree with Dave Lindorf but I think the president should address the violence against the OWS movement.
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cloudbase Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
58. He took an oath to
preserve, protect and defend some scrap of paper a few years ago, and could do it on that basis. It won't happen, though.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. Obama serves at the pleasure of and represents the interests of
the 1%. He needs to be mic checked at every campaign appearance between now and Nov. 2012.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #58
70. Right, do you know what the scrap of paper even says?
By the way you call it a scrap it appears you think it's a lot shorter and simpler than it is.
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rusty fender Donating Member (442 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
59. Even Randi Rhodes is calling on Obama to denounce the police
brutality against the Occupy protesters! There is no bigger Obama promoter than she is so that's something. :woohoo: :applause:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #59
71. Should Presidents spend all day "denouncing" and "supporting"
whatever Randi Rhodes thinks they should?

Obama does do things like that, too.

He's got things to do. This kind of mentality reminds me of the client or patient who thinks their lawyer or doctor works only on their case and doesn't have to have others going on at the same time.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #71
80. No. He should respond to citizens being beaten, pepper sprayed,
tear gassed, etc. when protesting when standard arrests would suffice.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
60. Oh, and note the fine graphic Mr. Lindorff includes with his "article"...


That's some awesome stuff you posted, BBI.

Sid
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. That's disgusting. It clearly shows where the author
of this nonsense is coming from. If that had been posted in the OP, the thread would have been killed, since it would be a violation of DU rules.

All the more reason to unrec, but I already did.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
64. Unrec another crazed article.
People don't really believe this kind of crap, do they??
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. Some do, apparently. I expect to see the image from that
link posted here a number of times. Crude insults, indeed.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
69. Wouldn't that get him accused (probably by the same people)
of violating the constitution and the separation of powers?

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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. The President is sworn to see that the laws are failthfully executed. How
does ensuring that citizens' rights are protected and not violated become a 'separation of powers' issue? Not saying you're wrong, just that I don't see it.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #72
78. You are correct in that. That's why the Justice Department is
a part of the Executive Branch. What is going on there at this time, I do not know. As for anticipating events, that's not something we normally do in the US. Our criminal justice systems is based on actions that have taken place, not what might take place.

Most of the Occupy demonstrations have gone on without interference. A few have not. When that happens, there are civil issues and criminal issues that are raised. We have a system for dealing with both. The President is not involved directly in such matters as a rule. Most of the criminal cases would be brought in state jurisdictions, and civil suits are filed by those affected.

We have a President, whose powers are very limited via the Constitution. We do not have a king or a dictator.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #69
73. Of course it would. The President of The United States
has no authority in state and local law enforcement. The federal government, however, does have authority over civil rights issues. When civil rights are violated, civil cases may be brought in federal court by those whose rights are violated. There's a process, which is surely already underway. The President is not involved in that process.
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eomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #73
94. Criminal prosecution of civil rights violations is initiated by the DOJ
http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usa...

It doesn't require any citizen lawsuit or any action by state or local authorities.

And it would be within the President's proper role and authority to direct the Attorney General to direct the FBI, the Criminal Division, and the Civil Rights Division of the DOJ to treat it as an urgent priority.

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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
75. Looks like this piece touches a sore spot.
:kick:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
76. Let me dig up my comment to the
Edited on Wed Nov-23-11 10:01 AM by ProSense
original post from the dungeon

I stand by that statement.

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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
77. There is no excuse for his saying nothing to date.
JFK and LBJ condemned the mistreatment of civil rights demonstrators and those events were just as "local" as OWS demonstrations. He can't formally stop it by a presidential order, true, but he could speak out about the unwarranted and inexcusable violence being used against peaceful protestors exercising their First Amendment rights. The presidency does have a bully pulpit.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #77
79. And how would that bully pulpit prevent morons like Lt. Pike
from making horrible decisions? I guess I don't understand that.
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #79
81. Calling attention to it is just as valuable
as being able to prevent it. A President saying that certain things are incompatible with what have been (at least until the last 10-15 years) bedrock American values might make the next Pike think twice.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. Yes, he could say that. I imagine he will at some point.
However, it will not stop idiots from being idiots and doing illegal things. The demonstrations continue. They have wide media coverage. Lt. Pike is being roundly condemned all over the internet. He is almost certain to get some sort of punishment over this, although I can't predict exactly what that will be.

There will be civil suits brought in federal court, and perhaps some criminal prosecutions in various jurisdictions over all of this. I'm not sure the President is required to make this a public issue. It already is.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #45
85. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. You could ask in the ATA forum...
Edited on Wed Nov-23-11 10:46 AM by MineralMan
The September 11 forum is not just for September 11 discussions, and hasn't been for a long time. It's a catch-all forum for conspiracy theories and nonsense threads. It's where they go to die in the natural course of things on DU.

This was a nonsense thread, made especially so by that stupid photoshopped graphic imbedded in the article at the link. Your previous post, of which this was an exact duplicate was also moved here. To understand why, a question in the Ask the Administrators forum should bring an answer in a day or two.

Some you win...
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #85
87. You should try it in GD again...
third time's a charm? :rofl:

Sid
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
83. Ah. I see this has been combined with yesterday's duplicate
thread. Proper!
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #83
84. The big question is...
Will we get another one tomorrow?

Sid
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #84
95. As it turns out, we did!
Of course, it was locked too.

There's always today, ya know!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-25-11 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
97. "Out of sight, out of mind" -- ??? Doubt it -- !!!
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