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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 11:45 AM
Original message
On OWS evictions and FEDERAL coordination
No, it is not shocking, nor is it surprising. For the record it has zero to do with who is in the White House. OWS is perceived as a challenge to those in power. It is a demand that WE THE PEOPLE take charge of how the country is run, and who it benefits. In spite of all the flowery language in our history and founding documents this has mostly never been the case. Oh there are exceptions, and they took a lot shoe leather, and also people who died.

If this was NOT HAPPENING, now that would be surprising. This is about power, and how power reacts to a direct challenge to it. This is the body deploying the white cells. Which by the way is also telling on HOW MUCH the TEA PARTY was not a grass roots movement (it was for about a week) and how it was advancing the goals of a power elite. That is why they could walk around totting AR-15, and open carry guns. That is precisely why.

OWS is a challenge, a very direct challenge. Is it horrible that is happening under a Democrat in the WH? For partisans it is. Will hard core partisans defend these actions? Of course my horse. They are also threatened by this challenge and are deeply invested in the status quo. So the hippie in the streets, who smoke pot and do nothing all day, are nothing they will tolerate. Why? Deeply they undersand they are not hippies. It is one of those things you know in your gut, even if your mind has not registered this yet.

Suffice it to say... POWER... not party specific, POWER, needs to destroy this direct attack. Why the coordination. And it is really independent of who is in the white house. If we had a President that came out and said ENOUGH (See Eisenhower, and that one I suspect it was his life experience including being involved as chief of staff to McCarthur during the Bonus army mess)... or FDR... or even Kennedy... that requires something that is currently lacking in DC.

LEADERSHIP...

We have many euphemisms for it. But truth be told we have the very early cracks in that edifice when the legal aide to Mayor Quan very publicly resigned. As well as the two cops who turned their badges back in Denver. I am not a fly in anybody's wall, but as we move forward discussions will be had about what to do about OWS, from co-option to destroying it. Power is reacting in expected ways... and to be brutally honest, power does not understand this new enemy, yes insurgency, in it's mist.

But now we are in that interesting dynamic...

I will go on in a little while in another OP in the internal dynamic at OWS I have observed. One that is also not a seed of destruction, but a seed of this growing in so many directions.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. Federal coordination to suppress peaceable dissent should be an impeachable offense.
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 11:49 AM by Warren Stupidity
It is a deliberate effort to violate the civil rights of the population. I don't care what party the occupant of the white house belongs to, this is on him.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. From a legal perspective you are very correct
it should be... but it won't. Why? Why I wrote in the OP.

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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. +99 n/t
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Proof that is not a unsupported blog post?
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 11:54 AM by emulatorloo
From a site that seems to want people to confuse it with the San Francisco Examiner?

Not saying that your conclusion is wrong, just not ready to declare a rumor as fact.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
47. There is none, because the ONLY source is an anonymous claim by a blogger with no reputation.
And we're supposed to believe that someone high up at the Justice Department gave this information ONLY to an unknown blogger from Minnesota, and not to, say, the New York Times.

It's bullshit of the worst kind, but people still believe it.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Anything besides an unsourced speculative blog posts to back up Federal coordination?
All threads that claim Federal involvement refer to a speculative piece on The Examiner blog. (and no , it is not the San Francisco Examiner)

I am uncomfortable giving a rumor the status of truth.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Well at the very least we have the words of Mayor Quan
who admitted to BBC the call with another 18 mayors. I will try to help you connect the dots on crossing state borders.

Regardless you are not dealing with the substantive issues at hand... nor am I susprised
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. When there are facts, I will deal with substantive issues. This is an internet rumor.
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 11:57 AM by emulatorloo
This is the kind of thing the wingnuts do. You know, where one site posts something, and then all the other post the same rumor, and then they say "See it must be true?"

DU has higher standards. If you want substantive discussion, present substance rather than presenting an internet rumor as "true."
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. So mayor Quan NEVER SAID THAT TO THE BBC
and we all imagined that, including the BBC.

Ok

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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Did Quan say there was federal coordination? (On Edit: No)
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 12:09 PM by emulatorloo
I have not seen that story, only the one by the blogger that seems to want everyone to think he works for the SF Examiner (he doesn't)

On Edit: googled the story, quote from the BBC story

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-us-canada-157614...

==========

"I was recently on a conference call with 18 cities across the country who had the same situation," Ms Quan told the BBC.

While several mayors of cities with Occupy encampments confirmed their participation in the 10 November conference call, they denied the call meant they had coordinated clearout efforts.

A spokeswoman for Portland Mayor Sam Adams said the mayors "traded notes about what was going on with Occupy protests".

===========

I see nothing there about "Federal Coordination". So if you are using the Quon's statement as "proof"for the Internet Rumor, you have not gotten anywhere.



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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. No but you surely can understand implication
and if you can't we will have to more than just politely disagree.

By the way, like it or not, what you are seeing is a pattern, a HISTORIC pattern... that goes well before this administration, or this century... Jackerie comes to mind... or the popular revolts such as Spartacus. Only the technology changes. Try to deal with that. Because that is what you are seeing.

I am talking about POWER and how it reacts to a DIRECT challenge.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. The pattern I am seeing is the Modern DU's obsessive need to treat internet speculation as fact
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 12:21 PM by emulatorloo
I understand your arguments about power and how it reacts to direct challenge. That is a good point and one that I agree with.

My only point is that in this particular case, this is an unsubstatiated rumor, and yet thread after thread today claims that it is the gospel truth.

Warren seems to have gotten a couple steps ahead of you, he claims Obama ordered the mayors to do this.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. You know the truth... CONTRIELRPRO wasn't real either
and just a rumor among conspiracy heads, well until those famous 1976 hearings... there is a history. We will learn DEFINITELY on this afte the dust settles and if there is a hearing. (Assuming of course things go the way most revolutions go in the US and stays peaceful, mostly). But to DISCOUNT THIS OUT OF HAND, given the HISTORY of this country is just tone deaf to history.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Look, I am not discounting it as "out of hand" I am only saying the single source for this claim is
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 12:33 PM by emulatorloo
a blog post from a blog which appears to want to confuse readers into thinking it is associated with the San Francisco Examiner.

This sets off alarm bells to me.

It really isn't enough to claim that it is definitely happening. For that reason, I am uncomfortable with threads that skip from "If the feds coordinated" to "The feds coordinated."

(If there is something to this, the Post or the Times will break it soon enough,)

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. My second source was the Keith Olberman show last night
and I do not think ether the post or the times will... since they have been fully co-opted. (See Judith Miller)... though the ONLY reason why the Times might is one of their reporters was arrested the night before last.
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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
59. You are referring to Michael Moore, who cited the SAME story...
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. What is uncontestable is that the DOJ isn't intervening to protect freedom of assembly and speech.
I do, however, find it more than a little ingenuous to believe that the feds knew nothing about the plans of the city bosses to crack down on those rights.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. The latter will probably come forth after the mess
with Contrielpro II hearings.
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Google gives me nothing for Contrielpro
Could you mean COINTELPRO? Maybe Contrielpro is not a US thing. Do you have any real knowledge of the subject?
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. wiki article here: COINTELPRO
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yes, I know about COINTELPRO.
Apparently, the OP does not, or at least does not proof read or fact check before "filing".
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Actually I know about it
you are taking your dig on a spelling error on a blog. I see.

Facts don't matter, just spelling. Look in the mirror, you are one of those I refer to as those invested in the system
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. The care shown in writing some thing for publication
shows the author has researched the issue nad checked the facts. Yes, spelling is important. Facts matter. What you "report" is speculation. I am invested in the American Constitutional system. Every American should be. There are things wrong in America today. The Constitution provides a way to correct these wrongs. Camping in the park won;t get it done.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. I see... I actually have
done that. I see that your way to discount any of this is by going after spelling on a blog post on the web no less. It is a common tactic.

By the way, having done the actual work on the ground, so are the people at downtown San Diego, at the Occupy Camp. They are defending that silly thing you know as the First Amendment. Remember that one?

Believe it or not, the powerful have made this, once again, into a fundamental civil rights struggle.

I highly recommend you get off the couch and go down to your local occupy and talk to them about that same first amendment. The other they care about, for some silly reason right now, is the Fourth.

Or are you going to tell me behind your computer screen that this is not the case? If you are... I will gladly use the word liar.
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. I visited Occupy Austin
Mostly I heard about legalize pot and student loans and banks. I agree about the banking problem. None of the people I talked to had a proposed solution other than doing away with them. The people I talked to spoke of the first amendment, but it seemed a catchall to justify the occupation. So, I have been away from my computer screen and I have talked to Occupants (?).

I would be interested in knowing what CONTRIELPRO is. Is it COINTELPRO? If so, why do you continue to misspell it
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MFrohike Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Spelling errors (bracketed for convenience)
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 01:58 PM by MFrohike
"The care shown in writing (some thing) for publication shows the has researched the issue (nad) checked the facts.
"Camping in the park (won;t) get it done."

Practice what you preach if you're going to be the internet spelling police.

The brackets don't seem to be working. I will use parentheses instead.
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Yeah, I had a proplem when I tried to correct too.
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MFrohike Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. My point
I find it a bit petty to focus on spelling errors or typos, which was what the misspelling of COINTELPRO truly seemed to be, in a substantive discussion. It's one thing to attack an argument, flawed logic, or the incorrect use of words, but it's just silly to attack spelling. The ability to spell has nothing to do with the ability to make a coherent argument.
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. CONTRIELPRO is a bit more than the misspelling of COINTELPRO
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MFrohike Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Really?
All the letters are there, they're just transposed. It's a very silly thing to make the basis of your argument. If the correct use of words and spelling concern you so much, perhaps you shouldn't have declared that you are "invested in the American Constitutional System." That phrase is ridiculous. You have an interest in the system, which derives from your status (presumed) as a citizen, but you have no investment in the system. It is not possible for you to have an investment in the system, because it is impossible to invest in it. You have rights and duties, but no investment.

The above is an example of pettiness, though I actually do think your phrasing is misguided, which really has no place in this kind of discourse. All it serves to do is make the other person defensive and shut off debate.
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Okay, all we have to do is get all the letters there.
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 03:56 PM by Hangingon
That is all it seems you need to be a blog journalist. Cite something that cannot be verified and get out of it by simply saying,"Well all the letters are there." Glad to learn that.

I am a citizen. I support the American Constituional system - that is our form of government. I have given and more than just buying bounds. Your supercilious crap in defense of the OP has fully connfirmed that there is no point in discussing this thread. Let the misinformation continue. The ignorant will appreciate it.
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MFrohike Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. How do you support it? And what is a bound?
Further, what is the "American Constituional system"? "I have give and more than just buying bounds." What does that mean?

I'm not speaking to the OP at all. The Examiner is not a credible source. It's a mix of conspiracy theory, bullshit, and just plain stupidity.

"Your supercilious crap in defense of the OP has fully connfirmed that there is no point in discussing this thread. Let the misinformation continue. The ignorant will appreciate it.,"

Your words quoted. You are refuting the OP's source not because it's a piece of shit, but because SHE SPELLED A WORD WRONG. Do you not see how stupid that is? You can't refute the source because you haven't bothered to look at it. Seriously, the source refutes itself. If you'd spend 5 minutes looking at that website, you could march in with a whole host of arguments that would weaken its credibility. Instead, you proceed to attack her spelling while adding multiple examples of poor spelling, word choice, and grammar.

I am attacking your spelling because you chose to make spelling an issue. If spelling is so important, why should anyone take you seriously? Either live to your own standards or admit you're a hypocrite. I'd prefer if you read the source, detailed its ridiculousness, and then laid that out in argument. It would be far more productive than a jihad on spelling. The choice is yours.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. Realize that DHS agents have been witnessed by
the likes of Michael Moore and Naomi Klein... hardly conspiracy nuts.

And this was far more of a META this is how things are... if they were not, I'd be pleasantly surprised.
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MFrohike Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. I'm undecided
I have heard reports of federal involvement from other sources. I don't know if they're true or not, though I can easily imagine federal officials at least being present for the coordination meetings.

I'm not calling out Michael Moore or Naomi Klein. I am calling out the Examiner. It's kind of like the Bleacher Report is for sports reporting.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Yeah but I was talking of Federal involvement
not the examiner. There is a reason I did not link to it.

Suffice to say that the ANTI TERRORISM unit was deployed. They are a NYC unit, run by the feds...

Now that is as circumstantial (apart of the call Mayor Quan spoke to BBC about) as you can get to this.

If (I am inclined as to is) there is federal involvement, it will not come out for a few decades if ever... The hearings on the abuses of the 1960s, which everybody involved in the marches knew about, did not come until 1976. I expect a similar dynamic is currently at play.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
63. Agree -- wholly agree -- !!
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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thank you!
very much needed to read (the above) this morning...!

regardless of President, you are right...it's about the shift of POWER and they are scared right now that if they don't put this down while it's "just a bunch of hippies" then it could get scary for THEM...

I hope that all the Occupiers, including the ones here on the internet and covering the movement, can continue to grow and evolve and make this movement stick. we all know it is needed...necessary even...

What sucks is the denial of so many that the fed has had anything to do with the crackdowns.
Someone said on my thread questioning Obama's silence that he is silent because he works FOR them.

beginning to think the threads of corporate-power are more like puppet strings...
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&R Thanks :) n/t
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. Unrec for passing rumors as facts.
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. +1
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. Thank you for the kick though
:-)

:hi: what rumors by the way? That power behaves in predictable ways? 10K years of history to back that statement...
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
21. I agree with some of what you have written......
while at the end of the day, to believe that Cities, Counties and States would not confer
with each other on a similar issue that is occurring nationwide would be naive and
unreasonable.

For those bent on believing that this President would be personally involved is stretching the matter
in order to make him the responsible party, and to turn Occupy Wall Street into a
movement like the Tea Party, which rather than concentrating on issues and how they
can make a positive difference, would prefer to simply blame one man for all of the
perceived problems in the world, in order to simplify the aim of their ire.

At this point, those active participants of Occupy Wall Street will have to determine whether the
goal, at the end of the day, is to be mad at everyone based on speculative heresy or murky causal link, and start to activate as a spoiler in the upcoming elections, or whether they actually want to affect change towards the positive, and in so doing, not react based on rumors which will only make them vulnerable to manipulation by those players whose biggest wish is to see this President fail, no matter how the end result might affect those currently in the 99%.

To this point, I have been a supporter of this movement, and have donated to the cause.
I have also written to the various elected officials in the California State government,
registering my contempt for their methods and their approach in dealing with the movement. I have written to the governor, the CA Attorney General on down to the Oakland US Representative of the district and the mayor (as I am in Oakland), and also to Pres. Obama.

However, if the OWS movement wants to find a way to shrink their numbers, I would suggest that they go after Pres. Obama, and act as spoilers. What they will find, is that many will stop supporting them, as they start to understand that this movement may only lead to an all Republican government in the near future; something that would be very harmful to the overwhelming majority of the 99%, and would be advantageous to the 1%; which is a complete contradiction to what the movement presented itself to be about originally.

Pointing fingers has consequences, and so as long as everyone fully understands what that might mean, then they should go for what they know. If they lose support due to it, well, at least they understood that could be the case. If they choose to place blame as their overarching concern, then they should know that taking actions that would eventually put the 99% in a worse position then they are now will only demonstrate that even those who mean well can sometimes hurt the cause. Unintended consequences or not, it all will have an effect.....and that will be the lasting message.

This is the place in history where the OWS movement can either go the way of the 1968 protests which gave us Richard Nixon, or not....and I guess it will depend how much some in the movement, who call themselves speaking for it...have to lose, as sometimes not having anything to lose personally can make one less sensitive to what others may have to lose in a long run. None of us are perfect, and I would not assume that some who believe themselves to be the exception truly are.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Actively involved would mean ordering a stand down
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 01:08 PM by nadinbrzezinski
otherwise the wheels and spokes of power move in predictable manner.

That is where that LEADERSHIP comes in.

Do we have the evidence right now? Nope... is there a LONG HISTORY of this happening in the past? YES.

Will we find that evidence? Well after the dust settles.

Oh and for the record I will not go as far as claiming that the President ORDERED this... and if we find evidence that indeed that is the case... in my view, it is an impeachable offense, Just as bad actually as the war crimes committed by baby bush.

That said, I will go as far as to suspect heavily that federal involvement... and for that... there is a long history of that
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
51. in my one + one half almost equals two category
i've searched for more concrete evidence re this as so many are quick to defend ..but i'm suspicious..very...
i watched two raids in horror on consecutive nights and woke up this am to an 84 year old woman pepper sprayed..and more raids in phoenix and other ows sites..these are our fellow citizens being treated like criminals which they are not..they are just regular folks like us...anyone who claims differently is lying..including the cops or the media
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
23. And a rec.
because "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." We were "rumored" to have strayed into Cambodia and Laos on bombing missions while fighting the Viet Nam war which the government denied until they couldn't deny it anymore. Anyone waiting for "proof" is going to have a long, long wait because it's going to have to be dragged out of them a morsel at a time.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
52. Thank you, Le Taz. I remeber those events well.
Lies were piled upon lies in an attempt to conceal crimes. Tragedies -especially the assassinations of the 1960s leaders and the bloodshed of our troops and millions of Asians, tore this country apart. Citizens fought each other. Many desperately wanted to believe the Government would not lie to them. By 1975 almost everybody was disillusioned.

I've got an odd sense of deja vu.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. Another rec
Hi unrec trolls.
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Juneboarder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
30. Preachin' to the choir!
:kick: & Rec'd!
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:43 PM
Original message
um, some of this choir
is off tune. "It's rumor and speculative". Although numerous people(including Michael Moore & Naomi Klein) have seen DHS at OWS.
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Juneboarder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
34. I was selfishly referring to my personal choir, lol...
But yes, I agree with you. I'm surprised it's taken this long for the connections to be made. There is another post on DU that has quotes from Rush Limbaugh's show this morning and one that stood out in particular is, "white house wanted bloomberg to get them out because it was one big ad for the dem party." I would call "white house" federal imo.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Rush has that wrong actually
the WH wanted them shut down because it is a direct challenge... it is not party specific.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
36. Oh what would those dirty hippies know?
I mean they dreamt them as an acid induced trip...

:sarcasm:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
31. Of note, MSNBC is now talking of this coordination
I guess MSNBC is also spreading rumors by playing actual sound.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. rumors == inconvenient truth
it is disconcerting when the kimono is opened and the body politic reveals itself. I understand why some here are in denial.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
33. K&R
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
45. People are in the streets
demanding justice. That should be a clue to the elite that they have gone way too far - and they have.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. .
:thumbsup:
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
48. Kickety rec
:kick:
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
50. K&R nt
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
53. kick
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
58. kick
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
60. kick
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. WHY is this moved to 9/11? n/t
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. This is where unsubstantiated conspiracies end up. nt
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