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I hate this, but as revolution grows...we get the expected distraction

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 02:48 PM
Original message
I hate this, but as revolution grows...we get the expected distraction
Edited on Wed Nov-09-11 03:21 PM by nadinbrzezinski
No, I don't think the Iranians are good guys, shades of gray, even dark gray apply...but as people take to them streets in Tel Aviv, New York, Cairo and yes Tehran...we hear...they are building a nuke. RUN, HIDE! Problem is that power reacts this way when challenged. It's almost commical. Good nooz, I don't think anybody can afford an actual war. But the saber ratling is like predictable and shit.

Oh and probably they are building a nuke.

But this is not about them, but the coincidence to other things going on.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Actually and unfortunately
it's very likely that they are INDEED building a nuke.
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'd be shocked if they don't already have several. Launch capability, not sure.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Cold war in the ME
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CanSocDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Only in your mind....


...is it "very likely". They are developing nuclear as an energy source. I have a very good friend who is Iranian and working as an mechanical engineer in Canada. Their culture is dramatically less violent than our own.

Your first clue should be who is behind the belligerence against Iran. That's right. The USA.

.
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Your good friend speaks for the Iranian mullahs?
You do know they hang gays over there,don't you?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Ah, but that isn't something the pro-Iran folks want to talk about.
It's irrelevant to their dislike of Israel and the relationship between the US and Israel. That's all that matters, really.

Personally, I do not want any more nuclear weapons in that part of the world, and regret that Israel has them. I want the US to step away from what's going on there and stop meddling. We fail every time we do that. Let the Middle East sort itself out. We're not capable of it.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
39. Well said!!! "I want the US to step away from what's going on there and
stop meddling. We fail every time we do that. Let the Middle East sort itself out. We're not capable of it."

This nation has a long history of injecting itself into other nations' activities, F'ing it all up, and dragging us into it all.

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CanSocDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. No he doesn't.


As for how they treat women AND gays I can only suggest that 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'...

The USA has about as much intolerance for deviance as anywhere else and they can always be counted on to use 'sexual' deviance as an excuse to express their righteous indignation. Iranians don't walk around armed with a gun and a moral pretension.

Should their treatment of gays be a reason to go to war?

.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Beyond ridiculous
I suspect you know that already. If you don't you need to (re)establish contact with reality.

Of course how Iran treats gays should not be a reason for war. But it should be a reason not to make bizarre comparisons with how gays are treated in the US.
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CanSocDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. OK, you don't get it, but.....


....your moral outrage is duly noted.

.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I'm not outraged in the least
I just find your comparisons of the US and Iran to be laughably ridiculous. So would most people who have basic knowledge of the two countries.
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CanSocDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Yes, I know....


...you're number one and Iran is, well....foreign. And you're all so tolerant of differences in people; not to mention how responsibly you handle nuclear technology. You're priceless....really!!

.

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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. How about some evidence?
Show me how it's not worse for gays in Iran than in the US. If you can't do so, then I guess this argument is over.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
41. A couple of Iranian students
told me that urban Iranians like the mullahs and Ahmedinajad about as much as Democrats like Bush and Cheney, that is not at all.

So painting them all as fundamentalists does them a disservice.

Plus the mullahs' social policy (no matter how distasteful) is not relevant to the issue of waging war against Iran (in the current context).
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. Allow me to play that oh so familiar song:
Net recommendation: 0 votes (Your vote: +1)

To quote the #Occupier: "Things are fucked up and bullshit".
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It is what it is.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
worthy of discussion.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. But we can add our objections to this war right now. We don't have to accept this bs. nt
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. But we can add our objections to this war right now. We don't have to accept this bs. nt
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. Unrecommended, because neither DU nor OWS is in either
camp with regard to the Middle East. That's not what it's about, and that's why there's an Israel/Palestine forum on DU. These discussions always turn into shouting matches in GD. There is no general agreement on Israel on DU. Nor is there in the Occupy movement. Neither are about that.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. WHOOSH!!!!!! Point missed
That's ok, don't expect recomendations from you.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Funny. I never read post like that.
I thought it was about how the war-mongering increased as we needed to divert attention away from any threats to the status quo? Did I read that incorrectly?
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. No you didn't read that incorrectly........
That's EXACTLY what nadin was saying. But I have a feeling you knew that. :)

It's not about whether a news item is true or not. Or even relevant or not. It's about whether it distracts people's attention from getting involved in the resistance. The capitalists KNOW that war has, in the past, been the best way to distract the masses from getting involved in challenging the system. They set up an outside challenge.

So no, a true news item being blown up into war drum beating is NOT a surprise at this point. We'll see if it works this time or not. That's the only thing I'm looking out for. Will the distraction work? I'm actually betting this time that it doesn't.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. I'm betting with you ...it won't work this time.
I really HOPE it doesn't anyway.


Oh lookie...here we are in the dungeon...wonder why? ( Not really)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. You two made me laugh.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. Kind of like Catholicism when it was under attack
by the first Protestants.

Suddenly there were witch trials and inquisitions and heretic burnings. The Church, in concert with friendly monarchies, built a society built on terror, fear and greed.

Of course the Protestants tried witches and heretics too--they knew a good racket when they saw it!!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yup...power reacts in predictable ways
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I think what scares the Establishment most about OWS
is that they can't understand it, they can't get a conceptual grip on what they're dealing with, and they have no effective tools. The old smash & bash "riot control" that I remember from the 60's now gets turned against the cops because everything gets captured on video. So what are they going to do? Distract, demonize,project, seek to crank up the ambient fear level (like with that incredible Bush-era color terror alert business; Migod, they were trying to sue those colors like a thermostat so they could turn the fear level up or down!).

I think the new interconnectedness of humanity is turning the species into a transpersonal entity with emergent properties that we cannot even guess at as yet.

I further think that OWS (and its predecessors worldwide going back to Tripoli) is one of the first significant actions of this new transpersonal "being."

Ya know what I mean, Earl Nadin?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yup
And why we all should carry them cameras.

And it's not just power. That confussion is all over here as well.

Next target...the web.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
40. Excellent!!! "I think the new interconnectedness of humanity is turning the species into
a transpersonal entity with emergent properties that we cannot even guess at as yet." I think similar, you did a nice job of summarizing it!!! A transpersonal entity! Excellent description IMO!!!

:toast:
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R
Edited on Wed Nov-09-11 03:19 PM by woo me with science
We will see a steadily increasing drumbeat about the dangers of Iran. Count on it.

An increasing threat of war is the oligarchy's trump card in the face of OWS...and involving new areas of the Middle East is the next stage of PNAC. The neocons and the military industrial complex are alive and well in Washington.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yup
And don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the mullahs. But they are not black hats and we're not white hats.
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dtexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
21. Which one, there are so many that I ......... ooh, shiny!
;-)
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
22. The Iran story is in the news right now because things are happening on that front
The IAEA is readying a report on their program and there has been recent speculation that Israel will soon carry out a strike. This is real news and matters a whole lot. The idea that it's some sort of a distraction is absolute rubbish.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. +1
Not everything has to do with Occupy stuff. This is about something else, truly. The idea of another nuclear power in the middle east is not a calming idea.

I don't see the connection, frankly. Iran's nuclear plans have been a point of discussion long before OWS ever began, and it's not going to go away. It's a real issue that has to be dealt with.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Re read the op
What part of shades of gray are you missing?

You know it can be both a distraction and a story.

And if you don't believe that perhaps I could recommend a book, she wrote well too...guns of august is the book. It is still widely accessible. Why I recommend it.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Read it years ago
You're attempting to shoehorn a conspiracy narrative into a place where it just doesn't fit. Iran's nuclear program has been in the news off and on for years now. Right now it's in the news because there are developments in the story. Pretty simple stuff. If you want to argue that there's a conspiracy afoot, you're going to have to produce evidence beyond your own opinions.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Alas history is not conspiracy.
But I see you and mods think it is.

The powerfull, not just in the us, need a distraction. That does not mean Iran is not building a nuke, they are. These are not automaticity excluding each other.

Ths is a well known dynamic and one that in the good guys black guys fantasy seems like conspiracy. Not shocked the mods believe this is conspiracy. It would take a deep knowledge of non fantasy to understand why this is not conspiracy but actual history with looooonnnnnnnggggggg legs.

Go on, keep the shroud on, it it allows you to sleep better at night.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
36. The IAEA is hardly a mouthpiece against OWS.
Dial down the paranoia. . .
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. WHOOSH
point went over head... into the stratosphere.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Yeah, I guess we're not all as smart and discerning as you, Nadin.
:eyes: I suppose we'll just have to "keep that shroud over our eyes" to help us sleep at night.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
42. Yes, I noticed a couple of little foreshadows here and there...
The British military said something about an attack, and a couple of other comments were leaked from other countries...we'll see how it plays out...
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