Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I am not buying this "Iranian Terror Plot" one bit

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11 Donate to DU
 
Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:16 PM
Original message
I am not buying this "Iranian Terror Plot" one bit
As many others have pointed out, the so-called Iranian terror plot just doesn't make any sense. We're supposed to believe that Iranian intelligence would hire some bumbling Mexican drug cartel yahoos to carry out a terror plot on American soil, in Washington DC no less?

Many have proposed that the plot is merely to distract from the OWS protests going on throughout the nation. I'm sure those who orchestrated this are happy to see some of the attention shifted away.

However, I believe the real motivation is much more sinister and dangerous. It's no secret that many in this country and Israel would love to launch military actions against Iran over their alleged nuclear weapons program (another fabrication). Yet they know that taking direct action themselves has significant risks and drawbacks. What's their solution? To create an incident that would infuriate Saudi Arabia into doing their dirty work. Tensions between Saudi Arabia and Iran have already been pretty high, it's no secret that these two countries despise each other. It would not surprise me at all for Israeli or American interests to create a false flag operation to goad the Saudis into attacking Iran.
Refresh | +44 Recommendations Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Me neither. It stinks to high heaven.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
AverageJoe90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. What stinks to high heaven......
....is all the FEARMONGERING about a supposedly imminent WW3 I'm already beginning to find all over the 'Net.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. So, you're saying the Obama Administration is Lying to You...
Evidence please?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. So you believe the official story?
You believe that Iranian intelligence hired some Texas used-car salesman nicknamed "Scarface" to carry out an assassination plot in Washington DC?

This sounds more like a bad Hollywood script than an actual terror plot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. Everything in the world is not about Obama.
Edited on Thu Oct-13-11 12:58 PM by DirkGently
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. It certainly is not: but the buck surely stops at his desk
:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Absolutely. I just question the need to view every OP through the "Obama -- yay or boo?" lens.
Edited on Thu Oct-13-11 02:10 PM by DirkGently
Seems that every "Gee, maybe our government is screwing up here" thought is subject to a certain amount of analysis concerned only with whether it conceivably, possibly, in some direct or indirect way, reflects well or ill on the current President.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
39. Where is the evidence that they are not lying?
I think the serious implications of their latest fairytale
requires them to provide empirical evidence, which they have not.
BHN
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
53. If that's how you want to spin it, no problem.
This is of course the same thing we heard under Bush. It was never, for example, simply about whether there were WMDs in Iraq. If you questioned that, it was automatically the nonsense reply: "Are you saying YOUR PRESIDENT is LYING?!"

Evidence? Prima-facie ridiculousness and context of propaganda war on Iran are more than sufficient in determining the neutral hypothesis, namely that this story is a routine propaganda fabrication.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. No, it's an obvious attempt to replace a dead bogeyman
with a live one in the form of a nation that would really prefer to be let alone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
54. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sounds like a lot of the other FBI-enabled non-plots trumpeted.

1. Someone with with no real ambition or ability to carry anything out presumably runs their mouth to one of the FBI's crooks-on-the-payroll about how they'd like to blow up the Moon or what have you.

2. FBI provides encouragement, funding and wiretaps

3. Something that never was any more than a drunken gleam in some idiot's eye is inflated, then deflated, and victory declared.

It makes very little sense that anyone with any real connection to the Iranian government would purport to set off a bomb on American soil to kill a Saudi diplomat. Saudis are much closer to Iran when they're at home, and everyone has now seen America's idea of a "defending itself" against even a singular terrorist attack.

It doesn't have to be pure fiction to be bullshit. All it has to be is another example of the established pattern of propping up an impotent would-be bad guy to then knock him down and pretend to have saved us from the Terrorist Menace once more, this time with a convenient "Let's to war with Iran next" theme.

I don't buy it either. Maybe someone's drunken Iranian uncle said something in a bar one night, but it's highly unlikely viable plot was either uncovered or prevented.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
octothorpe Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
20. I'm betting your take on it is a pretty close to reality.
We've seen these play out like this how many times? Maybe it's legit, but I won't be surprised if it turns out to be another one of those "FBI-enabled non-plots"...
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. Be strange if people didn't at least consider the possibility. Overplayed threats are now the norm.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. Honestly, I believe we are being sold propaganda to start an eventual war with Iran.
And I believe even Obama is being fed this propaganda by the intelligence community and the warmonger Generals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I agree except about the Obama part.
And I believe even Obama is being fed this propaganda by the intelligence community and the warmonger Generals.

That implies Obama isn't the type of guy who would gin up something like this for political purposes. If the past three years have taught us anything, it's that he is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
anAustralianobserver Donating Member (440 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. No, Obama's not a sociopath. I think in some cases he's too scared to call the actual sociopaths
out, and in others he's afraid to ask too many questions or to publicly demonstrate how much of the executive power of the presidency has been lost from GHWB days.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
MFrohike Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I agree
I'm starting to view him as akin to McKinley in 1898.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
anAustralianobserver Donating Member (440 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Will look up McKinley - I wonder if there's a movie about him.
Edited on Thu Oct-13-11 03:51 AM by anAustralianobserver
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
MFrohike Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Kind of weak
The GOP had a war fever that year and wanted to fight Spain. McKinley was firmly opposed. Then the USS Maine blew up in Havana harbor and the war was on. This is a simplified version, but I think those are the basics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
court jester Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Some people that do a similar thing in this country are called "accomplices"
and they are stripped of their wealth through forfeitures and locked up for decades

But others are showered with praise and "hope". If you drive a getaway car you are as guilty as the robber. At least that's what our Rulers State when they address us proles. Let them eat PEAS! War is PEAS! Give PEAS a chance!

This blatant hypocrisy can't be a uniquely american thing, so it must (hopefully) be uniquely human. It is astounding that the "Human Race" has existed for >100,000 yrs.

Isn't it long past time to issue PAT (Presidential Aptitude Tests) under penalty of perjury ( :D) to every single person that wants to serve the public as the "Most Powerful Man/Woman in the World?". After all, the Feds have no hesitation to drug test, background check, fingerprint and cross check anyone they think needs it.

By the way, Obama is often referred to as a "Constitutional Scholar". But try as i might, i cannot seem to locate a single paper he has written about the Constitution, maybe you've seen one, and could help with a link. Thanks!



Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
anAustralianobserver Donating Member (440 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. I like to think Obama is working with the Clintons and good guys in the Pentagon, Agencies and
and congress behind the scenes, to delicately and incrementally root out corruption and restore constitutionality, co-equality of the 3 branches, democratic functionality and transparency. That's my fantasy and I'm sticking to it.

my mind map:
Bushes - a bit good, mostly evil
Clintons - a bit evil, mostly good
Obama/Pelosi/Reid - mostly good, a bit negligent

:beer:
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
COLGATE4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. Recognizing that it IS fantasy is the first step towards healing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
32. Then he has no business being President nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
28. yup... didn't Biden state that "all options were on the Table"
there's that fucking table again!
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
43. We can't start another war. The U.S. cannot afford it. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
lunasun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Not only Iran , but good reason to send more military down to occupy Mexico too
As Iraq winds down we can move over to this huh?

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
MFrohike Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
11. I'm not a suspicious guy
I'm really not. Generally, I find many things went exactly as they were said to have gone. I'm one of those rare birds who has no trouble with the idea that Oswald killed Kennedy. I say that not to get people worked up (please don't), but to show that I'm not one who really sees sinister machinations on a regular basis.

Having said that, I have real trouble with this story. It makes no sense for Iran to antagonize the US like this. Such an attack would be like Pearl Harbor. It would be a direct attack on the US and would end, rightfully, with the end of their revolution. That's what makes this story reek. Why in the hell would Iran, having closely observed the entire Iraq saga, choose to start a fight with the US over a Saudi ambassador? That's not using strategic options, it's suicide.

The other thing that bothers me is the idea that Mexican cartel would go for this sort of thing. Given the horrendous violence in Mexico over the last few years, the cartels have to know that US policymakers would love to get involved directly. I've seen multiple news stories that note the cartels have been extremely careful not to let the violence spill into the US and give us an excuse. So, assuming that the cartels aren't headed by morons, why would they risk an action designed to bring the wrath of God down on their heads? It makes no sense.

Maybe there's something I'm not seeing. I don't pretend to have all the facts. All I can say is that, on the face of it, this story makes no sense. I feel like I did when I heard the Axis of Evil speech. I was blown away that a bunch of people who didn't crash planes into WTC and the Pentagon were suddenly the enemy. I'm getting that feeling all over again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. An excellent summation of what reeks with this story. The involvement of
a Mexican drug cartel is the most ludicrous aspect of this ludicrious story.

Welcome to DU. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. Ding ding ding, we have a winner!
You hit the nail on the head.

Why would Iran risk full-scale war with the US over a Saudi Ambassador? Even with our ongoing operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, they have to know that a US military response would be crippling, not to mention the high likelihood of NATO involvement (an attack on one is an attack on all...)

If Iran wanted to hit at Saudi Arabia, surely they could do so in a much more discrete manner. Even if they didn't want to conduct an operation on Saudi soil, why not go after some other country with a much lower risk of retaliation?

Why would the Mexican drug cartels want to risk the full wrath of the US military? That wouldn't be very good for their business.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. Pearl Harbor or the sinking of the Maine?

Whatever it is, I think a lot of people agree it's not likely to be a credible, serious, viable plot by Iranian intelligence to blow up an American restaurant to get at a Saudi diplomat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
14. All reports from his neighbors have it
That he was known to pace in his regularly front yard yelling a people on his cell phone. My guess is that they have netted someone with mental health issues. He might have had strange ambitions. Apparently it was a bit of a set up as the "restaurant" he was arranging to "blow up" does not exist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
16. I don't buy it either
TPTB have been frothing at the mouth to attack Iran since the bush* administration. So I'm suspicious of anything that sounds like an excuse for armed action against Iran. This story is just off the chart unbelievable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
18. Syria hotbed of major geopolitical game
.."The veto cast by Russia and China on the UN resolution on Syria reflects the gravity of the situation," Dr. Chandra Muzaffar, the President of the International Movement for a Just World., told RT. "Both Russia and China know that a resolution by the Security Council opens door for military intervention by NATO," he says.

It would be another attempt to oust an Arab government and replace it with a government which is sympathetic to the larger geopolitical aims of Washington, London, Paris, and other Western countries.

"Washington is pressing Syrian regime because Bashar Assads ouster would allow it change the geopolitics of the entire region," states Dr. Muzaffar. ..cont'd

http://rt.com/news/syria-resolution-geopolitcal-game-11... /








Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
19. Iran, Iraq, Syria Gas Pipeline Deal to rival US-backed Nabucco pipeline
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
40. yup...n/t
bhn
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Major Nikon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
22. I'll reserve judgement for now, but I don't find the official story all that far fetched
This is not the first assasignation on US soil the Iranians have been responsible for. Are they stupid enough do try something like this? I believe they are.

If you assume they aren't that stupid and believe the US had nefarious motives for manufacturing the story, then you have to turn the same argument around and ask yourself if the US thinks people are stupid enough to believe their version, if it isn't true. I think if the US did want to create a false story, they probably could have done better than this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
23. It's not just you.
Nothing about this makes sense. I theorized yesterday that at best, it may be the result of a government power struggle in Iran, and a military wing of fundamentalists that have stopped listening to the Iranian government. Of course, Iran would never admit that they don't have control of even their own army.

I also like your theory. Causing an Iran-Saudi Arabia war would still be really stupid, though, since it would destabilize the Middle East.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
25. me neither
it's like those BushCo era orange and red alerts... BS to distract sheeple from real threats like 3 new trade agreements...

Also takes the focus off of OWS
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. It could be a "Wag the Dog" type of situation
but I don't think anyone in our government would be stupid enough to hire the Mexican drug cartel either. Believe it or not, like it or not, when the US government does things like this, I'd bet they're pretty good at it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. On the other hand, we gave them guns that they're now killing us with.
That doesn't exactly scream competence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
29. You should read on those yahoos
No serious...

Whatever. I get it, Mexicans are stupid.

That will be until they no longer are...

Yes, I called you on it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
30. Oh and as predicted
The military option ain't on no dang table no more per DOD.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
31. I hoped the batshit conspiracy theories would have died down after Jan 2009.
They're still rocking and rolling, though.

Whatever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. I would've thought the same if we found WMDs in Iraq, it's logical NOT to trust our intel ciommunity
...because of this really costly screw up
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Nothing batshit in questioning a ludicrous accusation against a ME country suggesting war.

Reality has borne out the suggestion that Middle Eastern countries are painted as a bigger, more imminent threat than they are, in order to get us to attack them. WMDs, anyone?

It would be batshit to think it never happened before, or never would again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
34. Same here, and even more, I don't even care.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
vets74 Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
44. Fergitaboutit. The Iranians have assassinated people for 30+ years.
This Qods Force is part of the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard. They're been doing this kind of action over and over. That's part of their paranoia.

Mexico discovered this scheme. Tracking it back was our guys -- not bad work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. How many by way of a public bombing on U.S. soil, by the way?


That's kind of the point. They're good at this sort of thing. Professional killers and so forth. Professional killers don't start a war with the United States to blow up a diplomat who presumably spends most of his time in nearby parts of the war-torn Middle East.

The "plan" suggested to have been thwarted was laughably amateurish and proposed taking on an extremely high risk of international disaster to kill a minor political figure who could be taken out any day of the week in any number of ways with exponentially less risk.

Makes no sense at all. None.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
vets74 Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. IRAN COPIES CHILE. Big deal. Orlando Letelier and Ronni Moffat hit.
The Pinochet hit in 1976 in Washington is a model for this scheme.

Easier to bomb a restaurant than a car.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
46. I was thinking the same thing
Never trust the US media or the government.

Ever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Totally agree n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
49. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
51. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Jul 28th 2014, 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11 Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC