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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 11:48 PM
Original message
How did Obama ever get elected?
The 2008 Scam is Working

The voting machines were rigged just enough to allow Obama to win and put a few Dems in office.

Kinda put down the argument we were all making about the machines, didn't it?

Then in 2010 the machines were rigged to get rid of a bunch of Dems.

I predict that in 2012 Obama will be allowed to win but the congress and more states go red, just like a bunch of states turned more red in 2010.

And really, who gives a shit but a few 'conspiracy nuts' like me?
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Keeping the Senate is a Long Shot Anyway. We Have Too Many Seats to Defend
Our chances of taking back the House are better, but are being reduced by Republican gerrymandering and harsh voter ID laws.
We will likely have to deal with election fraud on an unprecedented level as well.
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Palmer Eldritch Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. or even half a shit, really...
At least you aren't delusional enough to think Obama won't be reelected.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. But you are delusional?
You think the voting machines play no part?
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Palmer Eldritch Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. If you think the GOP would ever willingly let Obama be President, you are fooling yourself.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Wrong,
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 12:27 AM by BeFree
They had no fucking choice. The people turned out in droves and overwhelmed the voting machines and they knew if they stole it they would have been caught and their scheme to rule by stealing elections would be ended. They let Obama win.

All they had to do was wait, and now we are back to being stupid dumbasses thinking republicans actually can get fairly elected.
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Palmer Eldritch Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. They didn't let him win. He just won in spite of all their efforts. And he will again.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. You don't think they count the votes?
They actually are happy with Obama. He's keeping the wars going. Wall Street is going great. And Obama is waffling on all the liberal issues. Flip-flopping is what they call it.

Like I say, they could have stolen it but then they might have finally got caught.
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Palmer Eldritch Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. You can explain anything when you are willing to just make things up.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #29
38. ding. ding. ding.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #29
42. Well, when you are ignorant of history, you are
They stole the 2000 election. They lie and they cheat.
What makes you think they don't steal votes?

People like you make up the fantasy that they wouldn't steal elections.

Hell, You don't even know what ES&S is, do you?
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #42
54. you're making the other poster's point
People like you make up the fantasy that they wouldn't steal elections.


The other poster said no such thing. Do you have any support for this wild assertion?

Hell, You don't even know what ES&S is, do you?


How would you know?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Point? Evaluate this
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #55
69. presents zero evidence that any election has been rigged
Apparently you aren't even trying. Or at least apparently you aren't trying to make the point that you claim to be trying to make.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. Go ahead, pick it apart
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 07:23 PM by BeFree
The programming code is a secret. It cannot be examined by anyone but ES&S. Judges have denied election examiners access to the code to try and understand why some election vote counts were totally messed up. Case in point: Sarasota County Florida, congressional election, 2006, where @17,000 votes were lost. Examiners took it to court asking to examine the code to figure out how those votes evaporated. Judge said: Fuck you.

Ok not fuck you, but you get the point.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #75
78. what point?
The point that you have no intention of supporting the assertions in your OP, and the rest of us can just go suck eggs? Or is there some other point you think you're making?
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #75
82. no points are made by you in your OP or anywhere else in this thread
just smears.
and more nonsense and changing the argument.
BTW, wouldn't you say that most of DU worked to elect Obama?
and wouldn't you say most, if not all, of DU voted for Obama?
why then are you smearing good DUers by telling them they wasted their time and the election was stolen?!
is that all you have is smears????
just smearing all of DU.
how nice of you, Befree.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
85. They needed to a Democrat in office
to make sure there was no chance of real health care or financial reforms and, mostly, to finish the destruction of the New Deal.

A Republican would never have been able to go after Social Security and Medicare the way Obama is doing.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #85
92. really?
You think there would have been "real health care or financial reforms" if McCain had been elected?

You think that Obama is "go(ing) after Social Security" more sharply than Bush did?

Really?
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #92
104. Really
I seriously doubt McCain would have been able to get a bill passed that requires us to buy private insurance policies from the very crooks who've been cheating us for years and call it "reform". Remember, Obama said more than once that we needed a public option to "keep them (the insurance companies) honest". So he admitted they were crooked but, in the end had no problem selling us out to them.

No, we would not have gotten meaningful financial reform from McCain - but we didn't get it from Obama either.

And, I don't recall Bush deciding we needed a "payroll tax holiday" that, for the first time, made Social Security somewhat dependent on the general revenue and I don't recall Bush putting Social Security on the table when it came time to raise the debt ceiling or pass a budget.

Just as Clinton was needed to "reform" welfare and sell out the unions with NAFTA, so Obama is needed to continue that work.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. grunt
I'm used to people saying odd things about health care reform -- just not so much in the 9/11 forum. Whatever.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #104
109. teabagger relative claimed..
McCain would have sold out to dems just to get along.
And now we see Obama selling out just to get along?

PTB is real happy with Obama. He hasn't caused any ruckus at all. The rich are getting richer. I figured all along Obama told them: Let me be president and you'll make even more money.

Now I figure his selling point is: I can control the populace. BP oils spill? I got that...not even in the news anymore. Torture: I got that, too. Need more war: No problemo.

Yep, they like them some mo' Obama.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. He got elected so the republicans would have somebody to blame when the shit hit the fan
And we all could see it coming. We knew they would have to point the finger at somebody for all the fuckups of the bush/cheney gang.

What we didn't anticipate (at least I didn't) was that Obama would play the part so well. I thought the guy would fight back and turn the accusations right back on them.

I never expected he would allow himself to be the scapegoat for the bush clusterfuck but he has embraced that role.

That hopey changey thing ain't working out so well for me right now. I'll vote for him in 2012 of course but I'm not real enthusiastic about it. Just like 1996 when I had to hold my nose and vote for Clinton again.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yep
And they made sure that congress would be all theirs to fuck with Obama.

They can act crazy because one they are crazy, and two, they know who counts the votes.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. Just as cynical
bush destroyed the economy and everything they could. They knew they wouldn't be reelected.
So--TPTB gave the Dems the choice of two polarizing candidates guaranteed to fire up the crazies on the right. They had to figure out which one riled them more...and that was the chosen one.
Weak majority, republican obstructionism lead to dissatisfaction that brought out every racist loon from every rock in the country--and that is when they made their move.

All these extreme governors...extreme politics in DC...

DEMANDING that "entitlements" be cut...

This was a strategically planned attack. No doubt in my mind.




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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yep
ES&S- a republican owned private company counts 80% of the votes.

They had the money and they had a plan and they own politics and politicians.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
11. The way I feel anymore I'm as open to your theory as much as anything else.
"Something" is going on, that's for sure. imho
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Not just 'My' theory
The computer experts will tell you that they don't think elections should be counted by computer.

And the facts of who owns the damn things is no theory.

Exit polls from 2000 on have been mighty screwy.

In fact, 2000 proves that they will steal elections and can get away with stealing elections.

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
14. Wow 37 points
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 12:47 AM by BeFree
Link to Top Ten ..... Recs + unrecs + 13 posts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

This is pissing some people off but good!
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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Being pissed off and thinking something is just plain silly is not the same thing.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Eh?
You think them stealing elections is silly?

They stole it in 2000. Without a doubt. You think they quit stealing after that?
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. it worked once (probably more)
they are not going to stop it without a fight. i'll always vote, but to think it makes a difference? nah...
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. It can make a difference
If the votes are counted correctly.

Or if there are so many votes the theft would become too obvious.
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
62. Actually 2000 was a selection
2004 was the theft in Ohio. The guy who helped with the tech side dies in one of those mysterious single engine plane "accidents".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/25/the-intriguing...
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. 48 points now. We are really cooking!
There are 23 posts, so there are 25 recs and unrecs with 0 showing.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
15. Selecting Palin
won it for him. And the moneyed interests in both parties have been just fine with that.

You might even suspect it was part of the plan.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Gave Palin some gravitas
Too bad for them she turned into a turkey. She could have easily beaten Obama if she was half of what she thinks she and the vote machine owners thought she was.
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Volaris Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. George W. Bush was President for 8 years, that's how.
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 12:51 AM by Volaris
The Democratic Party could have run Mickey Mouse against a GOP successor and won, (with the same margin) is what I think happened.

To put it another way-Junior was so bad, and sooooo many people knew it by the end, that America did the ONE THING that the GOP never in a million years thought the American People would do to them (the GOP).
And while conscious action or not, I think some of them just did it out of spite. A great, big, fat, F.U. to the (mostly) rich, white, moronic, racist GOP who got us into the mess.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Do you know what ES&S is?
Start there. Then realize that they want it all, And that and nothing is what it seems, and then you'll see that the machines are in control.

You do know they stole the election for bush in 2000, right?
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
18. Yes, that must be it.
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 12:53 AM by Starbucks Anarchist
It had nothing to do with the fact that Obama:

- had massive grassroots support and support among many key demographics
- built a huge fundraising operation due in part to millions of small donors
- presented a youthful and sane alternative to McCain
- was the first AA with a real chance of winning the election
- drew massive crowds with soaring oratory
- constantly presented himself as intelligent and perceptive
- strove to not create divisions between opposing groups

Yep, it's just one big ol' conspiracy. There's just no way he could win an election. And the only reason sideshows like Alan Grayson, et al, can't win is because of "the machines," not their lack of accomplishments, over-reliance on theatrics, or unhinged personalities.


:eyes:
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Like I say, the PTB likes Obama
The PTB are still making money and the left is as divided as ever.

Do you think all this is an accident? That it hasn't been carefully planned?

You really believe they never conspire to steal elections?
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. there are no accidents n/t
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. I'm not playing your stupid game.
Goodbye.
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #22
34. The PTB likes Obama more than McCain?
I would absolutely love to see your citations on this. Preferably ones dated 2008 and before.

Of course elections get stolen. But it's really only feasible when they're close. This one wasn't.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
27. good question.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
30. Possible scenario
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
31. The GOP did not even try in 2008 and seems to be dodging 2012 already.
POTUS Obama was not my first choice at all - initially I considered Obama an empty suit or, more kindly, an unknown.

I did not want HRC (or any neo-liberal) and was for Edwards because he was more oriented (and at least had the rhetoric) for rural USA and the poor and middle class. In a blind test of stated policies, I most agreed with Dennis Kucinik but never considered DK presidential.

But I ended up donating, gave opinion and time, and lost friendships since childhood because I was the most excited about Obama since Eugene McCarthy turned to RFK in my home and current State of California by the time of the California primary in 1968. Ironically, I went on high school field trips to McCarthy, Wallace, and Humphrey rallies in San Francisco. The Humphrey rally screened out longhairs or counter-culture garb

The appointments to key positions and Cabinet of POTUS Obama made me extremly concerned before the inaugeration. I am sad and would rather be wrong.

The GOP does not appear to be trying in 2012 either yet we continue to get GOP wet dreams and the Democrats blame for the most hopeless phase of the USA in my near 60 years. The GOP only offers insanity and holds (apparently) the Democratic Party and moreso the People of the USA hostage by mixing and tying issues that shall have - by law or precident - no bearing. Dems did not blackmail the GOP over debt limits during GWB.

I agree with you, thay in 2012 we will get POTUS Obama and a more GOP / RW and war-like Nation. There will not be much domestic empathy nor fairness.

I would vote for Jerry Brown in 2012 within the Democratic Party given the choice.
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craigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
32. If people don't turn out to vote because they don't think the dems are listening
to them then you can hardly blame the machines. In 2008 people turned out against bush. In 2010 our side was demoralized and fewer people voted. It's just that simple.
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
33. Do you have no "long-term" memory at all?
the election wasn't even close. Obama won by a landslide. He won states that hadn't gone Democratic within my over-40 lifetime. (My home state, VA, for example).

There was no election fraud necessary at all, considering his opponent was McCain/Palin and the Republican brand was already trashed beyond recognition. Even the talking heads were saying that whoever wound up winning the Democratic primary would likely win the election, and that's just what happened.

Vote machine hacking matters most in elections that are close. This one wasn't.

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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
35. Well...we had 8 years of the worst president ever.
Then the GOP ran someone they didn't even like and was just recycled parts of Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfield mixed in with the vapidness of Palin. In otherwords, no one wanted McCain as POTUS or at least not enough for a try at rigging the election...more importantly they finally learned to rig the stock market. Something far more important.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:08 AM
Response to Original message
36. I could believe it
I'm begining to wonder if there has ever been an election that hasn't been rigged.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
37. oh for fuck's sake. care to post even a shred of evidence that Obama stole the 2008
election. Oh, and you don't need quotation marks around conspiracy nut. If the shoe fits, and it sure as fuck does.....
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. What an idiotic thought from you cali
Find one fucking word in the OP that claims Obama stole anything.

You drug that out of your own mind.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
39. These conspiracy threads are almost like magical thinking
Where some kind of omnipotent group of people (TPTB) are controlling absolutely everything. Everything is rigged and planned, and there is no control in life. Everything is being watched and there are no accidents.

They really don't give any facts to prove it or make any sense. They just kind of start with the assumption that everything is a conspiracy, and run with it.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. Really?
I'll bet you don't even know what ES&S is.

If you did you wouldn't be slamming me.
But that is typical... be ignorant and shoot the messenger.
No wonder teabaggers are winning.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #43
53. Because ES&S is a bad company with fishy machines, Obama stole the election?
There needs to be more regulation, but it's hardly evidence of some large conspiracy. This is what happens when the government gets cheap and tries to save money. You get what you pay for.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #53
63. Who said Obama stole the election?
You won't find in my words. Maybe it's just in your head?

Do you know what HAVA was? It was a republican passed spending bill that bought computers to count votes in nearly every precinct in the country.

How much money did they spend: $ 4 billion dollars. It was not cheap, and not a way to save money. But they got what we paid for: Manipulable election counts.

These are just plain facts. Nothing more than that.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. So....
The repugs spent billions to get election voting machines that control the courts to get Obama elected but he knows nothing about it. That makes sense... especially with all of the evidence you put forth.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Computers counting votes speeds up the process, and, if done
correctly, is much more accurate than human counting. Just because the Republicans wanted it doesn't mean there's some grand conspiracy.

One could assume, from your OP, that you think Obama got into office through unfair means, no?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
40. Bwahahaha Moved here?
Bwahahaha~~ No wonder the Teabaggers are running the show. No wonder. At all. Even the smartest dems are ignoring the stolen elections.

DU was founded because of stolen election and now it's all a conspiracy theory?

Of course it is mainly personal. Ol Befree rubbed some people the wrong way.
Hurt their feelings.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. heh, You think it's personal?
heh, too funny.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Why move this thread here?
You have a clue? I don't except that someone hates me. There is no other reason.

Do you know what ES&S is? Before you run off at the mouth, figure that out first.

Of course you won't. You'll just try to blow it off.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Well lets see...
An absurd claim with no basis in reality, that ignores known facts of the time and events in question, that also offers zero evidence. See... Thats whats called a CT, and they end up here, it is not because anyone hates you.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. So
You don't know what ES&S is? Why? Why do you remain ignorant?

Are you scared to know?

There was no absurd claim made. And not one factual rebuttal of the OP.

If it was so absurd, it would be easy to rebut. All I got was trash talk. Just bullshit personal claims with no facts. Just like you are doing.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. ummm... yeah
Where are the facts to back up your vague claims? ohhhhh... people should go find your facts for you... I see because if we don't we are "scared" of it... bwhahahahahahahaha, too funny.

"Just bullshit personal claims with no facts. Just like you are doing."

The only that could be construed as a personal claim I've made about you is that your post was not moved here because people hate you. If you are that convinced it is because the mods/admins hate you, I would suggest gathering the links to prove it and post them with the evidence in ATA.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Ignorant of ES&S are you?
See, here you are, trying to tell me what I should do.

All the while your ignorance of the FACT of what ES&S does shines off your head.

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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. No, I'm just not playing your game
You are making claims of hate and persecution, so I offered some advice, you do not wish to follow it then do not be surprised by others amusement of your paranoia.

I also do not wish to present any type of case for you when you insist on being vague. Offer a solid case with evidence instead of vague claims and I will evaluate it and see if it has any merit.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Here, I did some work for you
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:22 AM
Original message
bwahahahahahaha
A link to more vague and unsubstantiated claims by... you. Let me know if you ever decide to offer anything of substance.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Another piece of work to be evaluated
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #52
59. Another vague claim by you is "work"
Why do you not offer anything specific and then back it up with something that even resembles evidence?
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #51
56. work?
What on earth in that comment do you construe as "work"?

Wow.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. Education
He didn't have the first clue. So I had to go elementary on him.

Even that, I fear, was too hard to grok.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. This is what BeFree considers evidence
I can't recall a single time BeFree has backed up a claim. It appears that BeFree feels it is just fine to make some vague claim, offer no evidence and then expect you to go find the proof.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. Proof?
Proof of what ES&S is? What do I have to do?.... Instead of just saying befree is an idiot and has nothing, tell me what it is you need to know. I will get it for you.

But then, I know you are just here to waste my time, as always.

C'ya Joe.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. Exactly what I've asked for time and time again
What you have avoided, as you always do. A specific claim... not some vague non-sense... and some actual evidence to back up your claim... By that I mean something other then your vague claim.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. Very good then
I posted some facts about ES&S and by virtue your silence have accepted those as true facts.
If they were not true you would have argued otherwise. Very good. You learned something new. Really, you should be thanking me.

Now, what else would you like to learn today, Joe?
I have a whole bunch of election related stuff I can learn you. Just ask.
Try to be specific tho.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Too funny
Why are you so afraid to back up your claims and yet be so quick to cry persecution when the silly things are sent to the same place as the rest of the silly claims?

Poor persecuted BeFree... :rofl:

Of course, I did not think you would back up your claims, you never do.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. Heh
Glad you got an ES&S education. Fucking scary, ain't it?

One company counts 80% of the votes. And that company is owned by republicans.

But, yeah, no one gives a shit but me and a few other posters, the rest are just here for the entertainment?

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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. More claims... Still nothing to back them up
Lots of people might give a shit if you did not makes claims without backing them them up. What about those billions to get voting machines that control courts so they can elect Obama without him knowing about it?

:eyes:

Or perhaps you will back up your new claims... or any claim you have made... Any day now I'm sure. :eyes:
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. That is an incorrect statement
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 07:21 PM by BeFree
This: "...they can elect Obama without him knowing about it?"

You sit there spewing bullshit, now back that up. I never said such a thing.

What I said was they could have stolen the election but if they had they would have been caught.
Because so many people came out to vote.

And had they been caught, the gig would have been up.

Try to read and understand before spewing, would be my advice.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. See your post #63
It is exactly what you said.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. Joe's words in this thread: Just personal attacks, nothing else
So....
The repugs spent billions to get election voting machines that control the courts to get Obama elected but he knows nothing about it. That makes sense... especially with all of the evidence you put forth

heh, You think it's personal?

heh, too funny.

Well lets see...

An absurd claim with no basis in reality, that ignores known facts of the time and events in question, that also offers zero evidence. See... Thats whats called a CT, and they end up here, it is not because anyone hates you.

ummm... yeah

Where are the facts to back up your vague claims? ohhhhh... people should go find your facts for you... I see because if we don't we are "scared" of it... bwhahahahahahahaha, too funny.


The only that could be construed as a personal claim I've made about you is that your post was not moved here because people hate you. If you are that convinced it is because the mods/admins hate you, I would suggest gathering the links to prove it and post them with the evidence in ATA.

No, I'm just not playing your game

You are making claims of hate and persecution, so I offered some advice, you do not wish to follow it then do not be surprised by others amusement of your paranoia.

I also do not wish to present any type of case for you when you insist on being vague. Offer a solid case with evidence instead of vague claims and I will evaluate it and see if it has any merit.

bwahahahahahaha

A link to more vague and unsubstantiated claims by... you. Let me know if you ever decide to offer anything of substance.

Another vague claim by you is "work"

Why do you not offer anything specific and then back it up with something that even resembles evidence?

This is what BeFree considers evidence

I can't recall a single time BeFree has backed up a claim. It appears that BeFree feels it is just fine to make some vague claim, offer no evidence and then expect you to go find the proof.

Exactly what I've asked for time and time again

What you have avoided, as you always do. A specific claim... not some vague non-sense... and some actual evidence to back up your claim... By that I mean something other then your vague claim.

Too funny

Why are you so afraid to back up your claims and yet be so quick to cry persecution when the silly things are sent to the same place as the rest of the silly claims?

Poor persecuted BeFree... :rofl:

Of course, I did not think you would back up your claims, you never do.

More claims... Still nothing to back them up

Lots of people might give a shit if you did not makes claims without backing them them up. What about those billions to get voting machines that control courts so they can elect Obama without him knowing about it?

:eyes:

Or perhaps you will back up your new claims... or any claim you have made... Any day now I'm sure.

See your post #63

It is exactly what you said.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. Alert is your friend
if you feel those are all personal attacks, use alert... or is alert out to get you as well?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. As you can see
What you said I wrote in 63 was in fact words you actually wrote.

You, maybe, should alert on yourself?

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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. I did not write 63
Facts just become more and more elusive for you huh?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. You did write #64, Joe
Written by me: #63. Who said Obama stole the election?

You won't find in my words. Maybe it's just in your head?

Do you know what HAVA was? It was a republican passed spending bill that bought computers to count votes in nearly every precinct in the country.

How much money did they spend: $ 4 billion dollars. It was not cheap, and not a way to save money. But they got what we paid for: Manipulable election counts.

These are just plain facts. Nothing more than that.

&

Written by Joe: #64. So....

The repugs spent billions to get election voting machines that control the courts to get Obama elected but he knows nothing about it.

------------------

And here you are claiming I wrote what you wrote? Bwahahahahaha
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. And so it goes, Joe
After all the crap you gave me, you are the only one who is eating it.

Have you learned your lesson yet? Don't fuck with me.

Bwhahahaha
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #91
96. the lesson seems to be: don't even try to figure out what you are saying
After all, the OP says,

The voting machines were rigged just enough to allow Obama to win and put a few Dems in office.


In ordinary English, that means that if the voting machines hadn't been rigged that much, Obama wouldn't have won. It's a statement that would fit in nicely at RedState. A number of people were understandably perplexed to find it here.

You may actually have meant something like, "The voting machines were rigged just little enough to allow Obama to win...." Or to put it differently, "The voting machines were rigged, but not enough to prevent Obama from winning...." Or maybe you meant something like, "The voting machines were rigged enough to deny Obama and the Democrats a landslide, while still allowing them to win."

Who knows? And why should we have to guess what you are trying to say? And when someone comes up with a perfectly plausible interpretation of what you actually said, where do you get off cursing him out?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #96
97. You are right
One must write real elementary when covering complex issues.

Most people are not as smart as you. Duh!

And most people wouldn't claim that something they wrote is what someone else wrote when the words are there for everyone to see!! Don't fuck with me.

Thanks for the writing lesson, 0.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. that's "O" to you n/t
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #91
99. yeah...
All the crap I gave you... Like asking for a source for your claims... bwahahahahaha, Don't fuck with BeFree, he will avoid backing up any of his bullshit and prove how little his claims are worth... That will teach you! Too funny :rofl:
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #99
103. Joe, joe, joe
You are pissing in the wind, Joe.

I gave you the source for your incorrect statement. Your post #64.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #103
106. and I pointed out that your OP supports his allegedly incorrect statement
You can keep on slamming people for reading what you write, but it doesn't do you any credit.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. You must be lost?
It really is cute, you sticking up for Joe. It is admirable. But really, can't Joe speak for himself?

Wait. He did. Joe claimed I said something but in reality was only what he said and so I gave him the source for what he said that I said and proved that what he said was what he said not what I said he said I said.



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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #107
108. Oops, made a mistake in the post above
Rewrite:
""Joe claimed I said something but in reality was only what he said and so I gave him the source for what he said that I said and proved that what he said was what he said not what I said.""

Sorry for the confusion...Bwahahaha
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. posting about ES&S does not support your OP
just more nonsense and changing the argument.
BTW, wouldn't you say that most of DU worked to elect Obama?
and wouldn't you say most, if not all, of DU voted for Obama?
why then are you smearing good DUers by telling them they wasted their time and the election was stolen?!
is that all you have is smears????
just smearing all of DU.
how nice of you, Befree.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #60
71. projection much?
Instead of just saying befree is an idiot and has nothing

You're the one who used the word "idiotic" in this thread. No one has used "idiot" at all.

Really, what's the point? Do you enjoy this, at least?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. Spreading the message
I think some folks learned a few new things about ES&S with this thread.

What do you know about ES&S? Why all this attention on ol Befree, and not one fucking peep from you about ES&S? Don't you want people to be educated?
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. why do you think some people learned about ES&S?
It's possible, but do you have any more evidence for that than for anything else you've said in this thread?

Why all this attention on ol Befree,


Dude, we're waiting for you to support your OP. I admit that I'm mildly curious about why you post things without supporting them, but your motives are ultimately irrelevant.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. Questioning my motive?
All you have done is personally question me.

And now questioning my motive.
My motive is to educate folks about ES&S and the danger to our voting.

If you have a problem with my motive... tough shit.

You think anything that I said was wrong? Post it up.
This is a discussion forum, in case you forgot.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. Your words in this thread oTOH. Just personal attacks. No substance
you're making the other poster's point

The other poster said no such thing. Do you have any support for this wild assertion?

How would you know?

presents zero evidence that any election has been rigged

Apparently you aren't even trying. Or at least apparently you aren't trying to make the point that you claim to be trying to make.

what point?

The point that you have no intention of supporting the assertions in your OP, and the rest of us can just go suck eggs? Or is there some other point you think you're making?

projection much?

You're the one who used the word "idiotic" in this thread. No one has used "idiot" at all.

Really, what's the point? Do you enjoy this, at least?

why do you think some people learned about ES&S?

It's possible, but do you have any more evidence for that than for anything else you've said in this thread?

Dude, we're waiting for you to support your OP. I admit that I'm mildly curious about why you post things without supporting them, but your motives are ultimately irrelevant.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #83
93. you wrote the OP
We pointed out that you haven't supported it. Period, full stop. You can try to turn it into a flame war if you like, but the OP will still be unsupported.
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. nothing but a smear to the good people of DU
just more nonsense and changing the argument.
BTW, wouldn't you say that most of DU worked to elect Obama?
and wouldn't you say most, if not all, of DU voted for Obama?
why then are you smearing good DUers by telling them they wasted their time and the election was stolen?!
is that all you have is smears????
just smearing all of DU.
how nice of you, Befree.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #81
94. I'm actually going to answer this
If it were true that the election was rigged (not necessarily stolen -- I'm not even trying to parse BeFree's words, but the two are distinguishable), then it wouldn't be smearing people to let them know that that was true.

It's tempting to turn BeFree's rhetorical tactics against him, but in six years, I've seen no sign that he cares.
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. typical truther posts
1. make a claim and make sure you support it with weak "evidence" at best, but usually with no evidence or any facts whatsoever.
2. when asked for facts, change the argument.
3. claim posters have said something they didn't say and then argue against it.
4. whine and cry like a baby that the mods either hate you or are intent at limiting free speech.
5. rinse and repeat.
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Make7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
90. What role do you believe NIST has in covering up electronic voting machine fraud? ( n/t )
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #90
98. Can't find the link?
Neither can I. But I did have a post 2-3 years ago about how the NIST had examined the voting machines and found no problems. The truth is out there.....
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Make7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. Is this it?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. No, but thanks
That is a great thing NIST did, tho.
Can you believe there are still touch screens in use?

The post I was thinking of was about an NIST report when the machines first gained a hold on elections. It was in this forum and it was about how @2001 the NIST looked at the damn things and gave them an ok. I found the report digging through the _________.

Anywho, your link was from 2006.

Thanks, make 7.
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Make7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #102
110. So... two or three years ago you posted information on a NIST report...
... that gave touch screen voting machines an "ok", even though a year or two prior to that they published a report that outlined numerous problems with them? Why would you use an old report when it didn't represent their (then) current position?

Anyway, the whole scenario you are putting forth seems rather far fetched since they had a report back when they were still called the National Bureau of Standards that detailed a number of issues with touch screen voting and computerized vote tabulation systems. (Unless finding numerous problems is what you meant when you said they "gave them an ok".)
 
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
95. Ya got me started, here is a GD link
What, me worry?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

See you all outside the wall?
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-11 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
111. I would imagine that more in the electoral college voted for him than did not...
"How did Obama ever get elected?"

I would imagine that more in the electoral college voted for him than did not... :shrug:

But that's just a guess on my part, and I certainly don't pretend to be very clever as so many others are so much better at it than I.
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