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Former FBI Agent Says Oswald Didn't Kill Kennedy

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Yeahyeah Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:19 AM
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Former FBI Agent Says Oswald Didn't Kill Kennedy
Edited on Wed Aug-18-10 08:56 AM by Yeahyeah
http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-news-don-adams-president-k...

Suzanne Stratford Fox 8 News Reporter
6:07 AM EDT, August 18, 2010

AKRON, Ohio - A retired FBI Agent from Summit County is making claims regarding the assassination of President John F. Kennedy that go beyond conspiracy theories.

Don Adams speaks clearly and concisely when describing the events of November 22, 1963, the day President Kennedy was killed, and he doesn't waiver from his position that Lee Harvey Oswald did not kill President John F. Kennedy in Dallas.

"It is a fact," says Adams, and he says he has the FBI documents to prove it.

At his home in Akron, Ohio, Adams is surrounded by thousands of reports and records from the National Archives and Records Administration. His name appears on many of the papers, but he says other reports have been doctored, or are missing, "Everything I had done is gone. It's all gone," Adams said...




http://adamsjfk.com /

Almost 50 years have gone by since President John Fitzgerald Kennedy was killed in Dallas, Texas, on Nov. 22, 1963. Yet, we are no closer to solving this murder today than we were back then.


We are beginning to elicit the truth, but that truth is being revealed in bits and pieces:


We KNOW that there were warnings that the President would be killed...


WTAM Interviews with Mike Trivisonno and Don Adams on JFK


Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5








7-29-10 Mike Trivisonno Hour 3
Former FBI Agent Don Adams in discussing the JFK assassination.

LISTEN NOW | DOWNLOAD TO YOUR COMPUTER
7-29-10 Mike Trivisonno Hour 2
Inequality in restrooms and showers. Former FBI Agent Don Adams is back in studio to discuss JFK's assassination.

http://www.wtam.com/pages/triv/ondemand.html
TRIV ON DEMAND - The BIG One - WTAM 1100 7-28-10 Mike
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   Replies to this thread
  - I always suspected Weenie did it.  Ian David   Aug-18-10 08:22 AM   #1 
  - I think that it was Col. Mustard in the Book Depository,  Dhalgren   Aug-18-10 08:31 AM   #5 
  - I don't want to be a scold but..  whathehell   Aug-18-10 08:46 AM   #11 
  - I see the same old junkyard dogs and shills are all over this one  ooglymoogly   Sep-29-10 12:53 PM   #336 
  - Don Adams says Oswald "Missed him by that much."  Ian David   Aug-18-10 08:23 AM   #2 
  - Oh, +1! That is a hoot!  Dhalgren   Aug-18-10 08:33 AM   #7 
  - Oswald was CIA and was downstairs in the building when the shots were  defendandprotect   Aug-20-10 10:24 PM   #22 
  - Nice tag team. Hey you might fool a few. nt  ooglymoogly   Sep-29-10 01:01 PM   #337 
  - - - -  saltpoint   Aug-18-10 08:38 AM   #9 
     - I don't think so...  MrMickeysMom   Aug-28-10 01:11 PM   #132 
  - What?  Sherman A1   Aug-18-10 08:25 AM   #3 
  - ~  Tuesday Afternoon   Aug-18-10 08:27 AM   #4 
  - Don Adams?  izquierdista   Aug-18-10 08:32 AM   #6 
  - No shit...  Hepburn   Aug-18-10 08:33 AM   #8 
  - Media missed this story, too.  Octafish   Sep-20-10 04:07 PM   #218 
  - So the FBI used criminals to do their dirty work?  The Backlash Cometh   Aug-18-10 08:40 AM   #10 
  - I too do not think this is funny and I will never ever be convinced that  Bitwit1234   Aug-18-10 08:53 AM   #12 
  - Thank you. Those of us who remember find the assassination of JFK  whathehell   Aug-18-10 09:11 AM   #14 
     - it's usually Republicans who laugh off the JFK assassination...  CrunchMaster   Aug-19-10 02:02 AM   #18 
     - I know...  whathehell   Aug-19-10 06:46 AM   #19 
     - Ted Kennedy was a Republican? /nt  jberryhill   Aug-20-10 11:10 PM   #24 
        - No, it was JFK and FDR who were Republican.  ooglymoogly   Sep-29-10 01:06 PM   #338 
     - Exactly ... and thank you!!  defendandprotect   Aug-20-10 10:18 PM   #20 
     - +more than I can count nt  ooglymoogly   Sep-29-10 01:08 PM   #339 
  - Read DeLillo's Libra  The Wizard   Aug-18-10 08:58 AM   #13 
  - 'Our gov.t has been taken over by a crime family that would make the Genovese look like Mr. Rogers.'  Octafish   Feb-23-11 09:05 AM   #413 
     - Octafish "Logic"  SDuderstadt   Feb-23-11 01:43 PM   #414 
     - Thanks for re-''minding'' me, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Feb-24-11 08:59 AM   #416 
     - The "War of the Roses" analogy is only "apt" if one knows zip about English history, for starters.  apocalypsehow   Feb-23-11 04:51 PM   #415 
        - Interesting. I'm still waiting for your ''bibliography,'' apocalypsehow.  Octafish   Feb-24-11 09:08 AM   #417 
           - Poor Octafish...  SDuderstadt   Feb-24-11 09:22 AM   #418 
           - Links to to two old DU posts of yours & one of mine does not a refutation of what I wrote above make  apocalypsehow   Feb-24-11 02:05 PM   #419 
  - It invariably ends like this  zipplewrath   Aug-18-10 09:17 AM   #15 
  - I guess Bugliosi and Posner have no credibility, since they sold books  davidkc   Aug-18-10 03:10 PM   #16 
  - Bugliosi and Posner have no credibility -- that's true . . ..  defendandprotect   Aug-20-10 10:31 PM   #23 
     - On the day he published his laughable book on the murder of JFK  ooglymoogly   Sep-29-10 01:47 PM   #340 
        - Yet you saw footage of the supposed waving off....  SDuderstadt   Sep-29-10 01:52 PM   #341 
           - what a bunch of trumped up garbage. Link  ooglymoogly   Sep-29-10 02:46 PM   #343 
              - I'm going to ask you politely one time...  SDuderstadt   Sep-29-10 03:12 PM   #344 
              - Just answering to the  k-robjoe   Sep-29-10 03:37 PM   #347 
              - what's the source for that?  OnTheOtherHand   Sep-29-10 03:39 PM   #348 
                 - Rybka  k-robjoe   Sep-29-10 04:48 PM   #350 
                 - Pre-emptive mea culpa...  SDuderstadt   Sep-29-10 08:14 PM   #352 
                 - fair enough  OnTheOtherHand   Sep-29-10 08:19 PM   #353 
                 - More on Emory Roberts  k-robjoe   Sep-30-10 02:15 PM   #357 
                    - Same guy  k-robjoe   Oct-01-10 08:40 AM   #365 
                    - Press car  k-robjoe   Oct-02-10 08:28 AM   #366 
              - Everett Kay  k-robjoe   Sep-29-10 03:28 PM   #346 
  - He should keep it zipped and die,goddammit!And die broke too!  Yeahyeah   Aug-18-10 04:13 PM   #17 
  - google JFK II if you haven't already. too many coincidences  davidwparker   Aug-20-10 10:18 PM   #21 
  - OMG I can't believe all this silliness.  gazeteere   Aug-21-10 01:17 PM   #25 
  - Interesting link --  defendandprotect   Sep-20-10 11:55 PM   #228 
  - I watched this movie again to refresh my memory....  SDuderstadt   Aug-26-10 02:07 AM   #96 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-22-10 12:48 PM   #26 
  - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-22-10 01:13 PM   #27 
  - Dude, how's that Journal coming?  Octafish   Aug-22-10 02:12 PM   #29 
     - "Where did you get the idea I was writing about you?"  SDuderstadt   Aug-22-10 02:43 PM   #31 
        - John McAdams is something else.  Octafish   Aug-22-10 04:00 PM   #34 
           - Jesus, here we go again...  SDuderstadt   Aug-22-10 04:25 PM   #36 
              - ''You've had nearly fifty years, dude.''  Octafish   Aug-24-10 05:42 PM   #65 
                 - Quit pretending I'm talking about a "statute of limitations, dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 05:50 PM   #67 
                    - Abraham Bolden  Octafish   Aug-24-10 06:47 PM   #71 
                       - Another diversion from you, dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 07:44 PM   #73 
                       - Despite your provocations, I've tried to be nice. So answer my question: What part isn't true?  Octafish   Aug-24-10 10:36 PM   #82 
                          - Gladly...  SDuderstadt   Aug-25-10 11:41 PM   #95 
                             - No. Still wrong.  Octafish   Aug-26-10 12:57 PM   #97 
                                - More of your smears...  SDuderstadt   Aug-26-10 01:28 PM   #99 
                                   - You haven't posted a single source, author or even link. And, I have to answer you? LOL!  Octafish   Aug-26-10 03:13 PM   #101 
                                   - LOL??  SDuderstadt   Aug-26-10 09:38 PM   #104 
                                      - My point: Hoover did 'lie his eyes out.' For example, FBI destroyed critical evidence after Dallas.  Octafish   Aug-27-10 08:52 AM   #114 
                                         - This is unintentional irony, right?  SDuderstadt   Aug-27-10 12:28 PM   #118 
                                            - Apologize for what? Stating what's obvious to anyone who reads this thread?  Octafish   Aug-27-10 06:43 PM   #122 
                                            - For your false accusation...  SDuderstadt   Aug-27-10 06:53 PM   #125 
                                   - I'll ask again, dude....  SDuderstadt   Aug-26-10 10:01 PM   #106 
                                      - The volume, Dude.  Octafish   Aug-27-10 08:53 AM   #115 
                                         - Another cryptic, incoherent...  SDuderstadt   Aug-27-10 11:00 AM   #117 
                                            - You answer my question: What did I write that wasn't true?  Octafish   Aug-27-10 06:47 PM   #123 
                                               - I alreasdy pointed out several, dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-27-10 06:51 PM   #124 
                                               - No, you haven't.  Octafish   Aug-27-10 06:55 PM   #127 
                                               - I've done it over and over...  SDuderstadt   Aug-27-10 06:58 PM   #128 
                                               - What ''little groupies?''  Octafish   Sep-13-10 07:57 AM   #196 
                                               - Here we go again...  SDuderstadt   Sep-13-10 08:11 AM   #197 
                       - The sad part is...he was sent to jail...and the main witness later confessed to being a liar  Jamwill   Aug-24-10 09:23 PM   #75 
                          - If you're going to make claims...  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 09:32 PM   #76 
                             - Even the WAPO link you gave us says it (Plus the Chicago Tribune)  Jamwill   Aug-24-10 09:46 PM   #77 
                                - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 09:57 PM   #78 
                                - "and now you tell us that lies are told in the article?"  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 10:15 PM   #79 
  - When I retire...  William Seger   Aug-22-10 01:49 PM   #28 
     - The Joseph Milteer tape is evidence of conspiracy. IMO, it should've been emphasized by Mr. Stone.  Octafish   Aug-22-10 02:34 PM   #30 
     - I'm calling your bluff, dude....  SDuderstadt   Aug-22-10 02:48 PM   #32 
     - It's no bluff. Here's what you wrote about the JFK assassination...  Octafish   Aug-22-10 03:53 PM   #33 
        - Sigh....  SDuderstadt   Aug-22-10 04:15 PM   #35 
     - Damn! I just found out that the Onion beat me to it  William Seger   Aug-22-10 10:44 PM   #37 
     - Don't expect them to address the Milteer article  midwestnerman   Aug-23-10 02:02 PM   #39 
        - See posts # 27 and 31...  SDuderstadt   Aug-23-10 02:09 PM   #40 
        - Coincidence or Plausible Deniability?  Octafish   Aug-23-10 02:56 PM   #45 
           - You might want to check "midwestnerman's" profile, dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-23-10 03:34 PM   #47 
              - Wow! Did not know that. I always try to welcome people to DU, even the dungeon.  Octafish   Aug-23-10 03:56 PM   #48 
                 - No, dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-23-10 04:08 PM   #49 
                    - Then, if you're not a moderator, mind your own business.  Octafish   Aug-23-10 04:28 PM   #50 
                       - You don't seem to understand the concept of a...  SDuderstadt   Aug-23-10 04:53 PM   #52 
                          - Like always getting the last word in, right, dude?  Octafish   Aug-24-10 05:43 PM   #66 
                             - "Waaaah! Quit replying to my...  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 05:54 PM   #68 
                                - Define ''Everybody.''  Octafish   Aug-26-10 01:00 PM   #98 
                                   - See post # 95....  SDuderstadt   Aug-26-10 01:31 PM   #100 
                                      - Nobody there. No link. No sources. Just you and your accusation. Big deal. Dude.  Octafish   Aug-26-10 03:38 PM   #102 
                                         - Fucking unbelievable...  SDuderstadt   Aug-26-10 09:59 PM   #105 
                                         - Don't know if I'm smarter than anybody. If I were, I certainly wouldn't brag about it.  Octafish   Aug-27-10 08:44 AM   #113 
                                            - I'm willing to bet that...  SDuderstadt   Aug-27-10 10:52 AM   #116 
                                               - Why does putting words in my mouth make you so happy?  Octafish   Aug-27-10 06:53 PM   #126 
                                               - "I'd rather be called all the names in the world by you than give in to the lie that is the....  SDuderstadt   Aug-27-10 07:04 PM   #129 
                                               - I read the Warren Commission Report. FBI agent Hosty destroying Oswald's note is nowhere in it.  Octafish   Sep-12-10 11:32 PM   #191 
                                               - You should stop telling me...  SDuderstadt   Sep-12-10 11:39 PM   #192 
                                               - I answered your false allegation, sduderstadt. Sorry if spending time on the JFK case bothers you.  Octafish   Sep-13-10 07:10 AM   #194 
                                               - I see...  SDuderstadt   Sep-13-10 08:17 AM   #198 
                                               - Pardon the intrusion  Cetacea   Sep-14-10 02:49 AM   #202 
                                               - You're kidding...  SDuderstadt   Sep-14-10 08:13 AM   #203 
                                               - James W. Sibert  k-robjoe   Sep-13-10 04:15 AM   #193 
                                               - Gerald Ford did do something worse than pardon Nixon.  Octafish   Sep-13-10 07:39 AM   #195 
                                               - Too bad science was not as far along back then...  SDuderstadt   Sep-13-10 08:22 AM   #199 
                                               - "Oswald, the CIA and Mexico City -- What's Up with the Fake Oswald?"  k-robjoe   Sep-13-10 08:41 AM   #200 
                                               - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-13-10 08:58 AM   #201 
                                               - Sibert again  k-robjoe   Sep-16-10 05:47 PM   #204 
                                               - Frank O'Neill  k-robjoe   Sep-17-10 08:47 AM   #205 
                                               - Great video. No exit=no single bullet  Mefistofeles   Sep-25-10 12:24 PM   #322 
                                               - "missile removed"  k-robjoe   Sep-17-10 04:45 PM   #206 
                                               - Wait a minute...  SDuderstadt   Sep-17-10 05:14 PM   #207 
                                               - Quick search  k-robjoe   Sep-17-10 05:36 PM   #208 
                                               - Which says nothing about...  SDuderstadt   Sep-17-10 05:56 PM   #209 
                                               - No, thats true  k-robjoe   Sep-17-10 07:13 PM   #210 
                                               - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Oct-10-10 12:20 AM   #380 
                                         - Here's another one...  SDuderstadt   Aug-26-10 10:33 PM   #107 
                                            - What's embarrassing is how you treat other people.  Octafish   Aug-27-10 08:42 AM   #112 
     - That would be a hilarious satire  alcibiades_mystery   Aug-24-10 08:17 AM   #61 
  - Joseph A. Milteer pretty much outlined the ''official version of Dallas'' before it happened.  Octafish   Aug-23-10 10:48 AM   #38 
  - How many times are you going to post this...  SDuderstadt   Aug-23-10 02:10 PM   #41 
     - What's wrong with it? It's the truth: Milteer talked about killing JFK 13 days before Dallas.  Octafish   Aug-23-10 02:38 PM   #42 
        - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-23-10 02:48 PM   #43 
           - Milteer also reported to the FBI informant he was in Houston, Fort Worth and Dallas.  Octafish   Aug-23-10 02:54 PM   #44 
              - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-23-10 03:16 PM   #46 
              - ''When we die off, no one will talk about these things.''  Octafish   Aug-23-10 04:38 PM   #51 
              - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-23-10 04:55 PM   #53 
              - They're still investigating the Lincoln assassination and gaining new insights ....  defendandprotect   Aug-24-10 12:33 AM   #59 
              - He didn't say Jack Brown was going to be the shooter  MarkChief   Aug-23-10 06:09 PM   #54 
                 - This post is so dumb...  SDuderstadt   Aug-23-10 09:31 PM   #55 
                    - I talk about jack brown and you reply that Bugliosi wrote a huge book  MarkChief   Aug-23-10 09:46 PM   #56 
                       - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-23-10 09:53 PM   #57 
                       - I wonder what screenname....  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 12:04 AM   #58 
              - Please prove that...  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 04:41 AM   #60 
                 - The Truth about the ssassination of JFK is clear and obvious.  gazeteere   Aug-24-10 01:27 PM   #62 
                 - Yeah...  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 01:34 PM   #63 
                 - When people lace their posts with words like...  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 02:33 PM   #64 
                 - It's what Somersett reported Milteer saying the day after the assassination.  Octafish   Aug-24-10 05:57 PM   #69 
                    - Corroborated by what, exactly...  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 06:05 PM   #70 
                       - Did you read the article? FBI agent Adams said his boss only allowed him '5 questions' to Milteer.  Octafish   Aug-24-10 07:27 PM   #72 
                          - Dude...do you understand what the term "corroboration" actually means?  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 07:46 PM   #74 
                             - That's why Somersett made the tape when Milteer outlined the assassination.  Octafish   Aug-24-10 10:23 PM   #80 
                                - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 10:29 PM   #81 
                                   - Laugh all you want. There's nothing funny about the assassination of President Kennedy.  Octafish   Aug-24-10 10:42 PM   #83 
                                      - .  Yeahyeah   Aug-24-10 10:57 PM   #84 
                                      - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 10:58 PM   #85 
                                         - What is your actual height,dude?  Yeahyeah   Aug-24-10 11:00 PM   #86 
                                            - 9' 11"  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 11:03 PM   #87 
                                               - That's a pretty solid number.Are you sure you don't stretch and shrink periodically?  Yeahyeah   Aug-24-10 11:08 PM   #88 
                                                  - I used to be 10' 5"  SDuderstadt   Aug-24-10 11:13 PM   #89 
  - Second "single bullet"  k-robjoe   Aug-25-10 04:04 AM   #90 
  - Why, it MUST be true!  SDuderstadt   Aug-25-10 09:09 AM   #91 
     - Starting up with the quote  k-robjoe   Aug-25-10 11:10 AM   #92 
        - I'm certain neither are "fabricated"....  SDuderstadt   Aug-25-10 11:36 AM   #93 
           - Guess "fabricated" wasnt the right word  k-robjoe   Aug-25-10 01:27 PM   #94 
  - I don't need an FBI agent to convince me...  MrMickeysMom   Aug-26-10 08:51 PM   #103 
  - Baloney  William Seger   Aug-26-10 11:58 PM   #108 
  - CE399: The Hoax of the Century  MinM   Aug-27-10 02:55 PM   #120 
  - Those are 2 good links to put some objectivity behind the hoax  MrMickeysMom   Aug-27-10 09:23 PM   #130 
     - LOL, of course you love the "ignore" button  William Seger   Aug-28-10 03:16 AM   #131 
  - FBI Special Agent James HOSTY destroyed evidence: a ''threatening'' note from Oswald.  Octafish   Sep-09-10 08:44 AM   #188 
     - "The trial of Lee Harvey Oswald"  k-robjoe   Sep-09-10 02:17 PM   #189 
        - Oswald had Hosty's telephone number in his pocket when arrested.  Octafish   Oct-24-10 09:14 AM   #396 
  - Well of course.....  Nathan_Hale   Aug-27-10 12:50 AM   #109 
  - Someone who thought he...  SDuderstadt   Aug-27-10 12:54 AM   #110 
  - "The case for conspiracy"  k-robjoe   Aug-27-10 03:59 AM   #111 
  - Part 2  k-robjoe   Aug-27-10 06:07 PM   #121 
  - Charles Crenshaw  k-robjoe   Sep-01-10 06:08 PM   #139 
     - Robert Nelson McClelland  Octafish   Nov-13-10 01:11 PM   #399 
  - Sliding across the trunk of the limousine  k-robjoe   Aug-27-10 01:22 PM   #119 
  - It's a reflection. If you map the speed of the car to the movement of the object it appears to....  Poll_Blind   Feb-24-11 02:23 PM   #420 
  - Helmer Reenberg  k-robjoe   Aug-30-10 03:36 AM   #133 
  - The railroadworkers on the tripple overpass  k-robjoe   Sep-01-10 09:33 AM   #135 
  - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-01-10 09:41 AM   #136 
     - Bugliosi  k-robjoe   Sep-01-10 06:00 PM   #137 
        - Read the book and...  SDuderstadt   Sep-01-10 06:07 PM   #138 
           - I get your point  k-robjoe   Sep-01-10 06:11 PM   #140 
              - Yeah, but you're ignoring what other doctors saw...  SDuderstadt   Sep-01-10 06:39 PM   #141 
                 - Bugliosi  k-robjoe   Sep-02-10 09:15 AM   #142 
                    - If you believe that the wound in JFK's throat was anything...  SDuderstadt   Sep-02-10 09:23 AM   #143 
                       - Bullet  k-robjoe   Sep-02-10 09:29 AM   #145 
                          - But, we know from the x-rays that...  SDuderstadt   Sep-02-10 09:32 AM   #146 
                             - Bullets  k-robjoe   Sep-02-10 09:40 AM   #147 
                                - You do realize that both JFK and Connally...  SDuderstadt   Sep-02-10 09:44 AM   #148 
                                   - Headwound  k-robjoe   Sep-02-10 09:48 AM   #149 
                                      - This is getting absolutely silly...  SDuderstadt   Sep-02-10 09:54 AM   #150 
                                         - Silly  k-robjoe   Sep-02-10 10:05 AM   #151 
                                         - Nevermind...n/t  SDuderstadt   Sep-02-10 10:07 AM   #152 
                                         - Heh  BeFree   Sep-02-10 10:26 AM   #154 
                                            - Oh but it is  k-robjoe   Sep-02-10 01:40 PM   #158 
                                               - Maybe you should stop...  SDuderstadt   Sep-02-10 02:21 PM   #161 
                                         - Yes  k-robjoe   Sep-04-10 08:58 AM   #162 
                                            - Forgot one thing  k-robjoe   Sep-04-10 09:01 AM   #163 
                                            - However, both the neck wound and right shounder wound had NO OUTLET ....  defendandprotect   Sep-21-10 12:00 AM   #230 
                                            - Where'd the "other bullet" go, then?  SDuderstadt   Sep-04-10 09:02 AM   #164 
                                               - I dont have the answer to that  k-robjoe   Sep-04-10 09:20 AM   #165 
  - Secret Service  k-robjoe   Sep-02-10 10:19 AM   #153 
  - Shell casings  k-robjoe   Sep-04-10 10:18 AM   #166 
  - "Posterior scull"  k-robjoe   Aug-31-10 04:02 AM   #134 
  - It is not surprising  zappaman   Sep-02-10 12:04 PM   #155 
     - Skull, skull, skull ....  k-robjoe   Sep-02-10 01:29 PM   #156 
        - you're welcome  zappaman   Sep-02-10 01:35 PM   #157 
           - Try argumenting  k-robjoe   Sep-02-10 01:42 PM   #159 
              - ok  zappaman   Sep-02-10 01:56 PM   #160 
  - Imposter  k-robjoe   Sep-02-10 09:24 AM   #144 
  - Fireworks / Braden / Dal-Tex  k-robjoe   Sep-07-10 10:21 AM   #167 
  - With all due respect....  SDuderstadt   Sep-07-10 10:54 AM   #168 
     - I thought I had seen something like that  k-robjoe   Sep-07-10 11:09 AM   #169 
        - With all due respect...  SDuderstadt   Sep-07-10 11:22 AM   #170 
           - No doubt  k-robjoe   Sep-07-10 03:02 PM   #171 
              - Well, then...  SDuderstadt   Sep-07-10 03:21 PM   #173 
                 - I dont  k-robjoe   Sep-07-10 03:37 PM   #174 
                    - Well, then...  SDuderstadt   Sep-07-10 03:42 PM   #175 
                       - Degrees  k-robjoe   Sep-07-10 03:54 PM   #176 
                          - Connections to what?  SDuderstadt   Sep-07-10 03:58 PM   #177 
                             - Getting feedback  k-robjoe   Sep-07-10 05:28 PM   #178 
                                - Do you realize that people often see connections which...  SDuderstadt   Sep-07-10 05:33 PM   #179 
                                   - Connections that just arent there  k-robjoe   Sep-07-10 05:41 PM   #180 
                                      - Wait a minute...  SDuderstadt   Sep-07-10 05:45 PM   #181 
                                         - Yes n/t  k-robjoe   Sep-07-10 05:47 PM   #182 
                                            - I don't think you do based...  SDuderstadt   Sep-07-10 05:50 PM   #183 
                                               - Then there must be  k-robjoe   Sep-07-10 05:55 PM   #184 
                                                  - Where are. you going with this? n/t  SDuderstadt   Sep-07-10 05:57 PM   #185 
                                                     - So you got my point then?  k-robjoe   Sep-07-10 06:04 PM   #186 
                                                     - Based upon a bunch of goofy assassination CT bullshit in...  SDuderstadt   Sep-07-10 06:34 PM   #187 
  - Two men in Dallas / Arnold Rowland  k-robjoe   Sep-07-10 03:19 PM   #172 
  - Amos Euins  k-robjoe   Oct-08-10 01:37 PM   #378 
     - John Powell  k-robjoe   Oct-08-10 01:38 PM   #379 
        - Gee. Lots of Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza...  Octafish   Dec-19-10 02:04 PM   #412 
  - Fabricating evidence  k-robjoe   Sep-10-10 05:07 AM   #190 
  - Lee Bowers  k-robjoe   Sep-20-10 09:37 AM   #211 
  - Yes...  SDuderstadt   Sep-20-10 09:44 AM   #212 
  - The physical evidence points to conspiracy.  Octafish   Sep-20-10 01:31 PM   #213 
     - The physical evidence nails Oswald...  SDuderstadt   Sep-20-10 02:35 PM   #214 
        - That's what you say. The evidence says something else.  Octafish   Sep-20-10 02:50 PM   #215 
           - It does, dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-20-10 03:07 PM   #216 
              - You can make fun of me all you want. I don't care. The point is the evidence indicates conspiracy.  Octafish   Sep-20-10 04:01 PM   #217 
                 - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-20-10 06:42 PM   #219 
                 - The Zapruder film of the assassination provides direct evidence for conspiracy.  Octafish   Sep-20-10 07:05 PM   #220 
                 - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-20-10 07:36 PM   #221 
                    - Since you don't supply any sources, I can't call them 'incompetents.' So here's video evidence...  Octafish   Sep-20-10 08:33 PM   #222 
                       - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-20-10 08:45 PM   #223 
                          - Where do you get that? Again, no source. Just your opinion. Who cares?  Octafish   Sep-20-10 09:03 PM   #224 
                             - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-20-10 09:14 PM   #225 
                                - Both agents were ORDERED off the back of JFK's limousine.  Octafish   Sep-20-10 09:58 PM   #226 
                                   - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-20-10 10:07 PM   #227 
                                      - Don't be ridiculous, sduderstadt. Roberts ORDERED Rybka and Lawton off JFK's car.  Octafish   Sep-21-10 07:14 AM   #232 
                                         - So, now you're claiming the Secret Service was in on it, too?  SDuderstadt   Sep-21-10 08:22 AM   #234 
                                            - Fume all you want, sduderstadt. It's obvious the video the Secret Service was ordered to stand-down.  Octafish   Sep-21-10 09:17 AM   #239 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-21-10 09:27 AM   #240 
                                            - You act like you've forgotten what this thread is about, sduderstadt -- EVIDENCE from an FBI man.  Octafish   Sep-21-10 10:03 AM   #244 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-21-10 10:15 AM   #245 
                                            - President Kennedy was murdered by a conspiracy, a secret cabal that remains in power.  Octafish   Sep-22-10 08:12 PM   #250 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Sep-22-10 08:22 PM   #251 
                                            - ''careful though...they might get you like they got all those others who knew the truth!''  Octafish   Sep-22-10 08:47 PM   #255 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-22-10 08:55 PM   #256 
                                            - I don't buy the Warren Commission story or the people who push it, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-22-10 09:08 PM   #259 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Sep-22-10 09:08 PM   #258 
                                            - Why the mini-Dude routine? Do you know anything about Dorothy Kilgallen and John McAdams?  Octafish   Sep-22-10 09:14 PM   #262 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Sep-22-10 09:21 PM   #265 
                                            - You certainly do show how much you know, zappaman.  Octafish   Sep-23-10 08:01 AM   #271 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Sep-23-10 10:54 AM   #275 
                                            - This is unintentional irony, right?  SDuderstadt   Sep-22-10 09:22 PM   #266 
                                            - So what if it's been 47 years, sduderstadt? I still give a damn.  Octafish   Sep-23-10 08:23 AM   #272 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-23-10 09:20 AM   #273 
                                            - Dorothy Kilgallen  k-robjoe   Sep-23-10 09:21 AM   #274 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-22-10 08:29 PM   #253 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Sep-22-10 06:25 PM   #247 
                                            - Way to continue your perfect record of never contributing anything worth reading, zappaman.  Octafish   Sep-22-10 08:00 PM   #249 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-22-10 07:33 PM   #248 
                                            - Disregarding Joseph Milteer evidence shows you for what you are, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-22-10 08:27 PM   #252 
                                            - Dude....  SDuderstadt   Sep-22-10 08:35 PM   #254 
                                            - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-22-10 09:05 PM   #257 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Sep-22-10 09:10 PM   #260 
                                            - There's nothing funny about the assassination of President Kennedy, zappaman.  Octafish   Sep-22-10 09:18 PM   #263 
                                            - Octafish "Logic"...  SDuderstadt   Sep-22-10 09:20 PM   #264 
                                            - More of your twisting and distorting, dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-22-10 09:13 PM   #261 
                                            - Don't get mad at me, they're your words, sduderstadt. Here're more...  Octafish   Sep-22-10 09:38 PM   #267 
                                            - Dude....  SDuderstadt   Sep-22-10 10:03 PM   #268 
                                            - I'm the one who should be angry, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-22-10 10:18 PM   #269 
                                            - More of your bullshit...  SDuderstadt   Sep-22-10 10:55 PM   #270 
                                            - More evidence: FBI memo shows George Herbert Walker Bush was in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963.  Octafish   Sep-23-10 04:07 PM   #276 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-23-10 04:55 PM   #278 
                                            - Suspicious, considering his dad, Prescott S. Bush, was named among those plotting against FDR.  Octafish   Sep-23-10 05:21 PM   #284 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Sep-23-10 05:11 PM   #281 
                                            - The mini-Dude act is a winner, zappaman.  Octafish   Sep-23-10 05:14 PM   #283 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Sep-23-10 05:31 PM   #285 
                                            - Who rules America? How did we get here? Any clue, zappaman?  Octafish   Sep-23-10 06:06 PM   #288 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Sep-23-10 06:16 PM   #289 
                                            - You should write a book, zappaman.  Octafish   Sep-23-10 07:39 PM   #291 
                                            - More evidence: FBI memo says FBI briefed ''Mr George Bush" of the CIA on Kennedy assassination.  Octafish   Sep-23-10 04:26 PM   #277 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-23-10 05:00 PM   #279 
                                            - Poppy Bush tried that one, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-23-10 05:33 PM   #286 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-23-10 07:00 PM   #290 
                                            - So go in their archive and grab the article, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-23-10 07:55 PM   #292 
                                            - There isn't any such article, dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-23-10 07:59 PM   #293 
                                            - Back so soon, sduderstadt?  Octafish   Sep-23-10 08:31 PM   #294 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-23-10 08:42 PM   #295 
                                            - Poppy Bush and Oswald's minder, George de Mohrenschildt, were associates, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-24-10 12:12 AM   #296 
                                            - "The casual reader could get the impression that The Nation article doesn't exist...  SDuderstadt   Sep-24-10 01:01 AM   #297 
                                            - Cut me down all you want because The Nation archive doesn't show the articles, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-24-10 08:03 AM   #300 
                                            - That's funny...  SDuderstadt   Sep-24-10 08:51 AM   #304 
                                            - I don't know why they don't show up, but they do at Gale Group, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-24-10 03:15 PM   #312 
                                            - Your link does NOT...  SDuderstadt   Sep-24-10 04:25 PM   #314 
                                            - They work fine for me, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-24-10 04:50 PM   #317 
                                            - Y'know...  SDuderstadt   Sep-24-10 01:17 AM   #298 
                                            - Laugh all you want. There's nothing funny about the assassination of President Kennedy.  Octafish   Sep-24-10 07:59 AM   #299 
                                            - More of Octafish's misdirection...  SDuderstadt   Sep-24-10 08:30 AM   #302 
                                            - Don't take it so personally, sduderstadt. I haven't insinuated squat about you.  Octafish   Sep-24-10 09:56 AM   #306 
                                            - Apparently, Octafish has not bothered to read...  SDuderstadt   Sep-24-10 10:06 AM   #308 
                                            - Always thought you were into business men, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-24-10 08:06 AM   #301 
                                            - More misdirection from Octafish...  SDuderstadt   Sep-24-10 08:39 AM   #303 
                                            - Misdirection is you pushing the lone nut Big Lie, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-24-10 09:53 AM   #305 
                                            - Typical conspiracist rant...  SDuderstadt   Sep-24-10 10:02 AM   #307 
                                            - Here are the two articles from The Nation you say don't exist, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-24-10 02:59 PM   #310 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-25-10 11:54 AM   #321 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Sep-24-10 12:51 PM   #309 
                                            - Here are the articles to keep intact your perfect record of futility, zappaman.  Octafish   Sep-24-10 03:05 PM   #311 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-24-10 04:22 PM   #313 
                                            - They work fine for me, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-24-10 04:46 PM   #315 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Sep-24-10 04:49 PM   #316 
                                            - You are the perfect echo, zappaman.  Octafish   Sep-24-10 04:55 PM   #318 
                                            - Here's what we see there, dude....  SDuderstadt   Sep-24-10 06:03 PM   #319 
                                            - That's all you've ever been, sduderstadt -- a waste of time.  Octafish   Sep-26-10 09:06 AM   #324 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-26-10 10:42 AM   #327 
                                            - ''There isn't any such article, dude... '' are your words, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-26-10 10:59 AM   #329 
                                            - Why did you leave the last of the sentence out...  SDuderstadt   Sep-26-10 11:24 AM   #330 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Sep-24-10 06:48 PM   #320 
                                            - Interesting how you continue to say the same thing and get the same results, zappaman.  Octafish   Sep-26-10 09:15 AM   #325 
                 - Kennedy hit / Connally hit  k-robjoe   Sep-21-10 04:51 AM   #231 
                    - Sorry, dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-21-10 08:16 AM   #233 
                       - The angle  k-robjoe   Sep-21-10 08:53 AM   #235 
                          - Zapruder film, dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-21-10 08:58 AM   #236 
                             - Zapruder  k-robjoe   Sep-21-10 09:01 AM   #237 
                                - Yes, you can...  SDuderstadt   Sep-21-10 09:16 AM   #238 
                                   - The lapel  k-robjoe   Sep-21-10 09:32 AM   #241 
                                      - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-21-10 09:41 AM   #242 
                                         - "Everything as obvious as I claim" ?  k-robjoe   Sep-21-10 09:54 AM   #243 
                 - Wounds Ballistics Tests (1964)  k-robjoe   Sep-22-10 05:20 PM   #246 
  - One of the most compelling witnesses ... Lee Bowers .... and ...  defendandprotect   Sep-20-10 11:57 PM   #229 
     - Lee E. Bowers reported what he saw...  Octafish   Nov-20-10 09:01 AM   #400 
        - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Nov-20-10 12:46 PM   #401 
           - You still haven't added anything worth reading, zappaman.  Octafish   Nov-21-10 10:38 AM   #402 
              - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Nov-21-10 10:53 AM   #403 
                 - Lee E. Bowers reported what he saw...  Octafish   Nov-28-10 09:02 AM   #404 
                    - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Nov-28-10 11:13 AM   #405 
                       - Warren Commission didn't seem all that interested in what Lee Bowers reported, zappaman.  Octafish   Nov-28-10 01:44 PM   #406 
                          - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Nov-28-10 02:01 PM   #407 
                             - Did you hear of Julia Ann Mercer before this thread, zappaman?  Octafish   Nov-28-10 03:04 PM   #408 
  - By 2030  k-robjoe   Sep-23-10 05:08 PM   #280 
  - By 2030?  zappaman   Sep-23-10 05:13 PM   #282 
     - He he  k-robjoe   Sep-23-10 05:46 PM   #287 
  - Jaqueline Kennedys testimony  k-robjoe   Sep-25-10 04:38 PM   #323 
  - Professor Gerald D. McKnight pegged the Warren Commission Ommission Mission.  Octafish   Sep-26-10 09:29 AM   #326 
     - No, it's evidence of...  SDuderstadt   Sep-26-10 10:48 AM   #328 
        - Rather than applying condescension, you should learn more about Abraham Bolden, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Dec-04-10 01:44 PM   #409 
           - I knew perfectly well who...  SDuderstadt   Dec-04-10 06:00 PM   #410 
  - Abraham Bolden  k-robjoe   Sep-27-10 04:20 AM   #331 
  - The Chicago Plot  Octafish   Sep-29-10 07:08 AM   #333 
  - Thomas Vallee is a person of interest.  Octafish   Oct-05-10 09:30 PM   #373 
  - Ah, Bolden again....  SDuderstadt   Oct-05-10 11:23 PM   #374 
     - It seems to me that the answer to that is self evident  k-robjoe   Oct-06-10 04:04 AM   #375 
        - Actually, no it doesn't...n/t  SDuderstadt   Oct-06-10 07:28 AM   #376 
           - How do you find it doesnt ?  k-robjoe   Oct-06-10 08:38 AM   #377 
  - New documentary  k-robjoe   Dec-07-10 06:00 AM   #411 
  - Hoover / Johnson  k-robjoe   Sep-28-10 10:41 AM   #332 
     - LBJ-J Edgar Hoover tape missing -- all we have is the transcript.  Octafish   Sep-29-10 10:55 AM   #334 
        - 47 years, dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-29-10 11:16 AM   #335 
           - So if the story doesn't matter anymore, why put so much effort into putting me down, sduderstadt?  Octafish   Sep-29-10 02:36 PM   #342 
              - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-29-10 03:20 PM   #345 
                 - I'm not insinuating squat. I'm saying you talk a lot and do nothing, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-29-10 04:36 PM   #349 
                    - Bullshit, dude....  SDuderstadt   Sep-29-10 06:59 PM   #351 
                       - Do you have anything to add on the subject: 'FBI Agent says Oswald not JFK assassin?' sduderstadt?  Octafish   Sep-30-10 08:35 AM   #354 
                          - SDuderstadt already contributed on this subject  OnTheOtherHand   Sep-30-10 09:45 AM   #355 
                          - If you and sduderstadt believe that, fine, that's your business or prerogative.  Octafish   Sep-30-10 02:19 PM   #358 
                             - yes, I read the article, which raises additional problems  OnTheOtherHand   Sep-30-10 03:18 PM   #360 
                                - Right. Right. Right.  Octafish   Sep-30-10 03:42 PM   #361 
                          - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-30-10 09:58 AM   #356 
                             - Adams reported he has the documents to prove his claims, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-30-10 02:27 PM   #359 
                                - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Sep-30-10 06:56 PM   #362 
                                   - Thanks for the information, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Sep-30-10 08:04 PM   #363 
                                      - Well, it's not like you or Adams exactly have...  SDuderstadt   Sep-30-10 08:15 PM   #364 
                                         - Brave FBI agent comes forward to testify Oswald was innocent and you blast him for it, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Oct-02-10 03:11 PM   #367 
                                            - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Oct-02-10 04:27 PM   #368 
                                            - Your words: 'Well, it's not like you or Adams exactly have...anything to present, dude,' sduderstadt  Octafish   Oct-02-10 05:04 PM   #370 
                                               - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Oct-02-10 05:11 PM   #372 
                                                  - You just don't like talking about Joseph Milteer, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Oct-10-10 10:04 AM   #381 
                                                     - And you don't like talking about why the FBI...  SDuderstadt   Oct-10-10 10:13 AM   #382 
                                                     - The same FBI that ignored Somerset's warnings about threats to Martin Luther King, Jr., sduderstadt?  Octafish   Oct-11-10 11:55 PM   #383 
                                                     - As I've pointed out before...  SDuderstadt   Oct-12-10 08:24 AM   #384 
                                                     - Lay off Octafish, dude  zappaman   Oct-12-10 12:56 PM   #385 
                                                     - Do you think he needs another...  SDuderstadt   Oct-12-10 12:58 PM   #386 
                                                     - well...  zappaman   Oct-12-10 01:06 PM   #387 
                                                     - You mean like the...  SDuderstadt   Oct-12-10 01:12 PM   #388 
                                                     - There is no statute of limitation on treason or murder, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Oct-13-10 07:21 AM   #390 
                                                     - Countering your goofy CT bullshit is not...  SDuderstadt   Oct-13-10 08:29 AM   #391 
                                                     - You are defending their positions when you devote so much time to it, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Oct-13-10 09:50 AM   #392 
                                                     - No, I'm countering your...  SDuderstadt   Oct-13-10 09:59 AM   #393 
                                                     - Year after year and not one instance where you slam the Bushes with evidence, sduderstadt.  Octafish   Oct-13-10 10:18 AM   #394 
                                                     - Dude...  SDuderstadt   Oct-13-10 10:25 AM   #395 
                                                     - You are the perfect mini-dude, zappaman.  Octafish   Oct-13-10 07:18 AM   #389 
                                                     - Yup, like Dr. Evil and Mini-me  Valienteman   Oct-31-10 09:46 AM   #397 
                                                     - More unintentional irony...  SDuderstadt   Oct-31-10 09:53 AM   #398 
                                            - Bloviate all you want, Octafish  zappaman   Oct-02-10 04:29 PM   #369 
                                               - Ever even hear of Joseph Adams Milteer before this thread, zappaman?  Octafish   Oct-02-10 05:10 PM   #371 
                                                  - The hole that was ignored is real  rogerh7   Dec-10-11 12:37 PM   #421 
                                                     - Debunking the illusion that jfk's head moved forward  rogerh7   Dec-10-11 12:42 PM   #422 
                                                        - Understanding reality and accepting it, is what grown-ups do  rogerh7   Dec-10-11 12:44 PM   #423 
                                                        - JACKIE DID NOT KILL JFK  rogerh7   Dec-10-11 12:47 PM   #424 
                                                        - Greer's very telling message 41 years ago  rogerh7   Dec-10-11 12:52 PM   #425 
                                                        - Right front entrance by Lbli rEreg  rogerh7   Dec-10-11 12:55 PM   #426 
                                                        - The driver killed kennedy...case closed  rogerh7   Dec-10-11 01:41 PM   #427 
                                                        - Rear gape at moment of front right impact  rogerh7   Dec-10-11 01:46 PM   #428 
                                                        - Recoil and muzzle blast in Zap and Nix  rogerh7   Dec-10-11 01:48 PM   #429 
                                                        - THE TRUTH REVEALED FROM A MOCK  rogerh7   Dec-13-11 05:59 PM   #430 
                                                        - GRASSY SNOW JOB WAS ALWAYS A RED HERRING  rogerh7   Dec-17-11 01:13 PM   #431 
                                                        - Maybe the whole assassination was a diversion tactic rog  deconstruct911   Dec-17-11 07:16 PM   #432 
                                                        - 1963 video fakery's in sync with headshot  rogerh7   Dec-18-11 11:10 AM   #433 
                                                        - IT WAS THE DRIVER  rogerh7   Dec-18-11 05:53 PM   #434 
                                                        - /////////////////////  rogerh7   Dec-19-11 03:50 PM   #435 
                                                        - ........................  rogerh7   Dec-19-11 03:50 PM   #436 
                                                        - ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''  rogerh7   Dec-19-11 03:51 PM   #437 
                                                        - 111111111111111111  rogerh7   Dec-19-11 07:08 PM   #438 
                                                        - 7777777777777777777  rogerh7   Dec-20-11 09:36 AM   #439 
                                                        - REAR EXIT WITNESSES  rogerh7   Dec-20-11 03:17 PM   #440 
                                                        - REALITY HELPS FICTION  rogerh7   Dec-21-11 04:13 PM   #441 
                                                        - Zapruder Film Forgery For Dummies  rogerh7   Dec-21-11 04:39 PM   #442 
                                                        - BEYOND ALL DOUBT...THE DRIVER DID IT  rogerh7   Dec-21-11 05:39 PM   #443 
                                                        - OLD MAN FINGERS GREER  rogerh7   Dec-21-11 06:29 PM   #444 
                                                        - HOW TO MOCK DELUSIONAL ARROGANCE 101  rogerh7   Dec-22-11 01:46 PM   #445 
                                                        - RIGHT FOREHEAD ENTRY  rogerh7   Dec-23-11 11:25 AM   #446 
                                                        - GREER DRIVER KILLED JFK DEAD AT CLOSE RANGE  rogerh7   Dec-23-11 01:52 PM   #447 
                                                        - REAR EXIT  rogerh7   Dec-24-11 12:47 PM   #448 
                                                        - 77777777777777777777777  rogerh7   Dec-26-11 05:59 PM   #449 
                                                        - A 70'S CLASSIC UPDATED RELEASE  rogerh7   Dec-28-11 10:53 AM   #450 
                                                        - THE KILLER PUT ON THE BRAKES  rogerh7   Dec-28-11 01:49 PM   #451 
                                                        - GREER PUT ON THE BRAKES  rogerh7   Dec-29-11 11:06 AM   #452 
                                                        - A OLD CLASSIC UPDATED...BUY NOW!  rogerh7   Dec-30-11 06:33 PM   #453 
                                                        - 1960's bleach out  rogerh7   Dec-31-11 03:38 PM   #454 
                                                        - ROY REACHED FOR GUN AFTER GREER'S FATAL SHOT  rogerh7   Jan-28-12 09:21 AM   #455 
                                                        - MUZZLE BLAST  rogerh7   Jan-29-12 02:37 PM   #456 
                                                        - Three accurate recordings debunk one fake  rogerh7   Jan-30-12 12:04 PM   #457 
                                                        - BULLET FRAGMENTS BEHIND RIGHT EYE  rogerh7   Feb-07-12 12:25 PM   #458 
                                                        - 11111111111111111111111111111  rogerh7   Apr-09-12 10:25 AM   #459 
                                                        - 22222222222222222 22222222222222222222222  rogerh7   Apr-15-12 10:23 AM   #460 
                                                        - Home stretch  rogerh7   Dec-23-12 10:44 AM   #461 
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. I always suspected Weenie did it.
Edited on Wed Aug-18-10 08:22 AM by Ian David



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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. I think that it was Col. Mustard in the Book Depository,
with a candlestick...
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. I don't want to be a scold but..

to those of us who remember him, and still feel, in the waning days of November, the melancholy...It can never be "funny".
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
336. I see the same old junkyard dogs and shills are all over this one
Edited on Wed Sep-29-10 12:59 PM by ooglymoogly
as they always are. These facts must always be made a joke and must never be taken seriously;

FOR THEY ARE ABOUT THE DAY DEMOCRACY IN THIS COUNTRY WAS SHOT DEAD.

To protect big banking, Wall st. and their intelligence armies.

Funny, how in spite of these watchdogs and clowns, the public still gets it by an overwhelming majority.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Don Adams says Oswald "Missed him by that much."
Edited on Wed Aug-18-10 08:24 AM by Ian David



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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Oh, +1! That is a hoot!
Edited on Wed Aug-18-10 08:33 AM by Dhalgren
:rofl:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Oswald was CIA and was downstairs in the building when the shots were
fired -- however, NOTHING ABOUT THIS IS A "HOOT" --

And sad to see that anyone here thinks a coup on our "people's" government

is something to be treated as a joke!

Pitiful -- !!

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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
337. Nice tag team. Hey you might fool a few. nt
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. - - -
: )

:thumbsup:
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
132. I don't think so...
:-(
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. What?
Your kidding, right...... :sarcasm:
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. ~
:tinfoilhat:
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. Don Adams?
Shouldn't he be using the Cone of Silence for this kind of information?
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
8. No shit...
...ya mean there really, really was no "magic bullet" and our government lied? Imagine that...

:sarcasm:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
218. Media missed this story, too.
Kurt Nimmo shames Corporate McPravda:

JFK Assassination Cover-Up Blown Sky High

by Kurt Nimmo
Thursday, August 26, 2010

It is a story the corporate media, with the notable exception of one lone Fox News affiliate, refuses to report. A former FBI agent, Don Adams, has compelling evidence Lee Harvey Oswald did not assassinate president John F. Kennedy. Adams was assigned to an FBI office in Thomasville, Georgia, on November 22, 1963. Adams was responsible for investigating Joseph Adams Milteer, described as a radical with connections to the States Rights Party and KKK. Milteer, according to Adams, was involved in Kennedys assassination.

As revealed by the Church Committee in the mid-70s and according to internal FBI documents the agency controlled the Ku Klux Klan and other white supremacists beginning in the 1960s. More recently, it was revealed that racist radio talk show host Hal Turner operated as a national security intelligence asset for the FBI, thus demonstrating the agency still has its hooks in the lunatic fringe movement.

The racist Milteer was reportedly one of most violent men in the country, Adams told Fox 8 News. Years later, Adams discovered that Milteer had threatened to kill Kennedy on November 9, 1963, and the FBI had lied about Milteers whereabouts. In order to make his case, Adams played an audio recording of Milteer for Fox News. In the recording, Milteer tells an informant the best way to get the president is from an office building with a high powered rifle. Asked if he was sincere about a plot of kill Kennedy, Milteer responded: Oh yes. Its in the works.

Despite the threat and possibility of a conspiracy to assassinate the president, the FBI and Secret Service allowed Kennedy to travel to Dallas. should have stopped the President from traveling instantly, said Adams.

CONTINUED...

http://www.theredmountainpost.com/jfk-assassination-cov... /

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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
10. So the FBI used criminals to do their dirty work?
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
12. I too do not think this is funny and I will never ever be convinced that
John Connley and the republicans were not somehow involved. I will say it over and over. Else why when Martha was going to "spill the beans", she was kidnapped, held in a motel for weeks and then mysteriously was said to have an advanced case of cancer and passed away....For those of you not old enough to have been there, the climate of mistrust of the republicans was overwhelming. Person after person insisted that some of the shots came from the area, OF THE GRASSY KNOLL. They said no amount of government urging would make them change their mind.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Thank you. Those of us who remember find the assassination of JFK
about as funny as AIDS.
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CrunchMaster Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. it's usually Republicans who laugh off the JFK assassination...
and buy the official theory hook line and sinker.... I would wager 90% of Democrats, liberals and progressives would be onboard for a real investigation of who shot JFK...(answer : probably fascists elements of the far right)
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I know...
That's why I'm wondering about the "laughing" here.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Ted Kennedy was a Republican? /nt

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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
338. No, it was JFK and FDR who were Republican.
Edited on Wed Sep-29-10 01:07 PM by ooglymoogly
Ferr Sherrr doood. Try reading more than the pug clap trap.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Exactly ... and thank you!!
Almost 50 years have gone by since President John Fitzgerald Kennedy was killed in Dallas, Texas, on Nov. 22, 1963. Yet, we are no closer to solving this murder today than we were back then.

and this comment from the thread is also uninformed and misleading --

many private investigators have revealed the essential details of the JFK coup on our

"people's" government --

In fact, many in DU the evening of the assassination fairly well knew the names of those involved.

And, the Tunnheim Commission confirmed that --

"OSWALD WAS EMPLOYED BY THE CIA WORKING ON HIGH LEVEL ASSIGNMENTS AND PROBABLY

ALSO FOR THE FBI."

Despite many continuing efforts to bring the truth forward, the coverup remains strong --

and the power to keep the cover up going is stronger than our power to overturn it --

so far ...

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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
339. +more than I can count nt
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
13. Read DeLillo's Libra
Edited on Wed Aug-18-10 09:00 AM by The Wizard
a "fictional" account of the assassination and you'll find the name Milteer.
What we have/had was/is the American version of the War of the Roses.
Instead of the Lancasters and the Yorks we have the Bushes and Kennedys. As we know, the Bush cartel prevailed.
Our government has been taken over by a crime family that would make the Genovese look like Mr. Rogers.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
413. 'Our gov.t has been taken over by a crime family that would make the Genovese look like Mr. Rogers.'
Well said. The Mafia never killed a million innocent people for their oil. The War of the Roses analogy is apt, except the Kennedys -- like all Liberals -- tried to play fair and follow the Golden Rule. The other side -- representing the Money Party, the War Party, the Establishment Aristocracy -- has done whatever it takes to win. The results of their victory are all around -- from permanent war to a penured middle class.



Here's a transcript of the text:



TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63

FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL

SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY

At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.

BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.

BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.

BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.

# # #



Gee. Why was Poppy Bush in Dallas when JFK was assassinated?

Could it be, he was on official business? I suspect he was on Secret Government business. After all, his eldest son bragged during his Texas Air National Guard and Harvard grad school days that his daddy was CIA.

Here's an FBI document from the same week of the assassination in which FBI Director J Edgar Hoover briefed one "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency." Some strange coincidence there, wot?



Here's a transcript of the above:



Date: November 29, 1963

To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State

From: John Edgar Hoover, Director

Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963

Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.

Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.

An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.

The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.

# # #



The paper trail sheds some light on the War. Thank you for the heads-up on DeLillo's book, The Wizard!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #413
414. Octafish "Logic"
George Bush is a very uncommon name.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-11 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #414
416. Thanks for re-''minding'' me, sduderstadt.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #413
415. The "War of the Roses" analogy is only "apt" if one knows zip about English history, for starters.
For seconders:

"The paper trail sheds some light on the War"

One assumes here you mean the Vietnam war, which is odd, because that was a war basically started, and vigorously prosecuted by, none other than President John F. Kennedy. Again: when JFK arrived in office on Jan. 20, 1961, there were roughly 600 American military "advisers" whose rules of engagement were so limited that they weren't even allowed to leave their base compounds under any but the most extreme of circumstances. Those orders came straight from the top - right from the Oval Office of Dwight David Eisenhower.

The day JFK died, there were nearly 20,000 combat troops in Vietnam, already engaged in fighting right alongside the ARVN. Every single one of them were dispatched to South Vietnam on Kennedy's explicit orders.

Their Air Force colleagues, meantime, had received their first batch of a charming little combination herbicide/defoliant named after the color of the stripes on the barrels in which it was shipped in. This, too, was carried out on President Kennedy's explicit orders:

"Individual spray runs had to be approved by President John F. Kennedy until November 1962 when Kennedy gave the authority to approve most spray runs to the Military Assistance Command, Vietnam and the US Ambassador to South Viet Nam."*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ranch_Hand

Indeed, here is President Kennedy speaking in Fort Worth in his last delivered remarks before his tragic death at the hands of Lee Harvey Oswald:

"The Iroquois helicopter from Fort Worth is a mainstay in our fight against the guerrillas in South Viet-Nam. The transportation of crews between our missile sites is done in planes produced here in Fort Worth. So wherever the confrontation may occur, and in the last 3 years it has occurred on at least three occasions, in Laos, Berlin, and Cuba, and it will again wherever it occurs, the products of Fort Worth and the men of Fort Worth provide us with a sense of security....

....In all these ways, the success of our national defense depends upon this city in the western United States, 10,000 miles from Viet-Nam, 5,000 or 6,000 miles from Berlin, thousands of miles from trouble spots in Latin America and Africa or the Middle East. And yet Fort Worth and what it does and what it produces participates in all these great historic events. Texas, as a whole, and Fort Worth bear particular responsibility for this national defense effort, for military procurement in this State totals nearly $1 billion, fifth highest among all the States of the Union. There are more military personnel on active duty in this State than any in the Nation, save one and it is not Massachusetts any in the Nation save one, with a combined military-civilian defense payroll of well over a billion dollars. I don't recite these for any partisan purpose. They are the result of American determination to be second to none, and as a result of the effort which this country has made in the last 3 years we are second to none....

....In the past 3 years we have increased the defense budget of the United States by over 20 percent; increased the program of acquisition for Polaris submarines from 24 to 41; increased our Minuteman missile purchase program by more than 75 percent; doubled the number of strategic bombers and missiles on alert; doubled the number of nuclear weapons available in the strategic alert forces; increased the tactical nuclear forces deployed in Western Europe by over 60 percent; added five combat ready divisions to the Army of the United States, and five tactical fighter wings to the Air Force of the United States; increased our strategic airlift capability by 75 percent; and increased our special counterinsurgency forces which are engaged now in South Viet-Nam by 600 percent...."
**

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ftworth.htm

(Side comment: some real "enemy" of the "military-industrial complex he was, eh? :eyes:)

The "paper trail" - not to mention the publicly-delivered speeches trail - on "the War" is, indeed, massive, and it all leads back to one conclusion: President Kennedy decisively escalated American involvement in the conflict in Southeast Asia, and till the day he died was determined to continue doing so.

Whether he might have come to a different conclusion about it on November 23rd or anytime thereafter is irrelevant: on November 22nd, 1963, his government was waging war in South Vietnam, and on his explicit orders.

And what, in all that massive "paper trail" that points to President Kennedy's decisive role in inaugurating the major American role in that conflict, do those who continue to clamor that it would have gone otherwise have in the way of "proof" to the contrary?

Here's what: one vaguely worded National Security Action Memo that approved a military recommendation that 1,000 American military personnel by the end of the year, and orders that the news not be made public. And why? The vast majority of credible historians maintain that the Memorandum was a bluff, an attempt to get the South Vietnamese government - which had recently undergone a coup with Kennedy's tacit approval - to stay in line with U.S. policy directives, or a shifting of mission priorities, as the U.S. Air Force & Navy leadership had been insisting that what was called for in South Vietnam was less troops on the ground and more bombers and fighters in the air, and combat ships offshore. Still others insist it was simply a routine reshuffling and rotation of troops, having no larger policy implications whatsoever.

One thing NSAM 263 does not do is establish that Kennedy would have "brought the boys home" in any way, manner, shape or form, had he lived.***

The bottom line is that Vietnam was JFK's war till the day he died. You can blame Johnson and Nixon for anything after that, all the way up to March of 1973. And there is not a shred of definitive, credible evidence that JFK wanted it any other way.


*All emphases added

**Ditto

***See the complete text of NSAM 263 - with "draft" bullet points below the body of the complete memo - here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nsam-jfk/nsam-263.htm




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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #415
417. Interesting. I'm still waiting for your ''bibliography,'' apocalypsehow.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-11 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #417
418. Poor Octafish...
Does it occur to you not to draw attention to your failed 47 year campaign to find JFK's "real killer"? Serious question: have you read Bugliosi's book?
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-11 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #417
419. Links to to two old DU posts of yours & one of mine does not a refutation of what I wrote above make
Instead of attempting to change the subject, address the historical evidence put to you in the reply above.

"I'm still waiting for your ''bibliography,'"

I am going to deal with this phony issue in depth once and only once in my interactions with you on DU, Octafish, and from here on out whenever you attempt to change the subject from whatever facts I've presented that you cannot refute by bringing up this old diversionary chestnut, I'm simply going to post a link back to this reply.

A "bibliography" is nothing more than a list of books compiled and/or collected for a specific purpose, among other things that word can refer to. Here's a helpful definition for you:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bibliography

It is, indeed, true that I have a large number of books in my personal library that address the life, times, personal and political career of John Fitzgerald Kennedy - everything from general biographies of his life to topic-specific volumes regarding actions of his administration on everything from the Cuban Missile Crises to its dealings with South America. I also have in my collection a sizable body of conspiracy theory works, everything from Jim Marrs "Conspiracy: the Plot that killed Kennedy" to a compilation of conspiracy-related articles compiled and edited by James Fetzer titled "Murder in Dealey Plaza."

But that is not this issue. This is:

1. When people post a reply to you containing any number of facts that refute a position you hold, Octafish, the proper way to reply to them is not to refer to some old post of theirs that is irrelevant to the post at hand, but to address those facts.

2. You, I, and every one else are well aware that my sarcastic reply to you in that singular post was, indeed, a rhetorical reference to the fact that I am not only much better read than you are on this subject, but, also, the content of what I have read is largely from legitimate, credible sources, as opposed to conspiracy-theory rubbish peddled by con-men (in many instances) and/or the genuinely misinformed (in many others). This means that not only the quantity of what I've read is much greater than yours, but the quality is infinitely more intellectually honest and imbued with scholarly rigor.

3. This repeated returning to "I'm still waiting for your bibliography" routine is simply a way to avoid dealing with facts as presented to you, and a pretense, in any event: were you genuinely interested in having me painstakingly put aside an afternoon and compile a list of books I have read, many of which are in my personal library, you would have long ago messaged me privately and said, "you know, apocalypsehow, I know you were being sarcastic in that post about the bibliography, but in all sincerity I would appreciate seeing a list of books you've read and/or recommend on the subject. I would genuinely appreciate it if you would do this for me, thanks!" But that's not what you're interested in: you are interested in scoring some kind of public "debate" points by pretending I have failed to deliver on some "promise" you think I have made and you are due. Of this, you are well aware, but you persist in returning to this tactic anyway because it is much, much, much easier than attempting to refute my solid facts and evidence.

4. Further, you and I both know that if I, indeed, did put aside 5-6 hours of my time, and compile in writing such a list and then forward it on to you via private message or publicly, the result would not be that Octafish would drop his keyboard, run right out to the local library or bookstore and start prowling the stacks looking for reading material: no, the result would be an immediate counter-reply dismissing the works as part of the "cover-up"; an accompanying questioning if not outright smearing of the reputations of the authors of those books in an attempt to discredit them; or a reply simply ignoring the entire thing in lieu of posting an eye-numbing number of links - most of them to conspiracy blogs, opinion pieces, or your own previous posts - supposedly "proving" that it doesn't matter how many actual scholarly works are written that do not square with your view of the events of Nov. 22, 1963, you have on your side of the "debate"....an eye-numbing number of links to conspiracy blogs, opinion pieces, and your own previous posts.

And my time would have truly and completely been wasted.

5. Taken together, everything I have laid out in points 1-4 lay the groundwork for my reply to you regarding this constant diversionary "request" you continue to make every time I definitively refute an assertion you have made in a post on this forum. That reply is as follows:

(a) As to the repeated public, i.e., in a post/reply on DU, business about "I'm still waiting for your ''bibliography'," you can stop waiting: I am not going to burn even ten seconds of my time working up such a list for you, period. Normally, this alone would be sufficient to see the matter dropped, and never brought up again as some kind of "debate" point in future interactions between us. But that's about the only card you got to play in our occasional discussions back and forth regarding this matter on DU, since all the actual, verifiable, credible facts are on my side, not yours. Thus, the card will always be played, because it is human nature to grasp at even weak cards if it is perceived that it keeps us at the table and in the game.

(b) But even that card is now going to either have to be played or flushed, because I'm calling your bluff. This is my offer: if you compose a polite, respectful private message to me, Octafish, and in that message you nicely ask me to go ahead and work up that Bibliography for you, even though we both know the original "offer" was an off-the-cuff instance of internet obiter dictum, I'll be delighted to block off an evening to do so, and get it right to you. You can then do with it what you want: follow its recommendations, ignore it, post an OP here ridiculing or praising it, whatever you want.

And then the (phony to begin with) issue will have been laid to rest, and you can get on with the business of refuting my facts, as opposed to dredging up old posts with no relevance to those said facts.

Which is why my PM box will remain empty, I reckon: you don't want to discuss the facts. You want to discuss everything but.

In any event, you have my (final) word on this diversionary matter you continue to bring to our attention. Any further references to it will simply find a link posted in reply for those interested to follow back to this post, and the explanation contained therein above.

Issue resolved.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
15. It invariably ends like this
"The 80-year-old is currently putting the papers into a book and he has also produced a documentary style DVD, which is being sold on his website."
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davidkc Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I guess Bugliosi and Posner have no credibility, since they sold books
?

And I guess Fox made up the part about the audio-tape where Milteer saying a plot is in the works.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Bugliosi and Posner have no credibility -- that's true . . ..
but because they have presented not evidence but misinformation --

and especially in Bug's case, mainly an attack on other private investigators

who have produced evidence he doesn't like and which is in disagreement with

his ill-found conclusions.

Fox wasn't the first to present the audio-tape of Milteer and Sullivan -- it was

the Discovery Channel which presented the British documentary "The Men Who Killed

Kennedy" -- and the tape included Milteer's discussion of the original plans to kill

JFK in Miami -- but, needless to say, same concept of "patsy" and other patterns were

used in Dallas. You might also have noticed that Milteer seems to be present among

the crowds welcoming JFK that sad day? Your library probably has High Treason I and II --

think it's "I" which has the photo -- your library probably has these books.



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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
340. On the day he published his laughable book on the murder of JFK
he lost all credibility. He thinks since he gained creds on the forgone conviction of Manson and the good read "Helter Skelter; He can squander that capital and say anything and it will stick. He handily dispels the crackpot conspiracy theories with the trick of a breathless countdown, but fails to see; That the real conspiracy theory is that of the government; Is all too obvious and has been verified too many times to count. For instance, The dismissal or waving off the secret service at Dallas Airport from the footsteps at the back of the Limo in the direct line of fire, being too persuasive to dismiss; And yet not covered. This book is his Waterloo. His book should have been called "Distorting History". The inconvenient truths with no possible argument, he just left out, and concentrated on the ridiculous, the far out and the easy, some he just did not get. I was so furious with this idiots "treatise", even without finishing it, I took it back and got my money back. This book is meant for idiots.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #340
341. Yet you saw footage of the supposed waving off....
of the SS. Hmmm. Don't you think the "perps" would have made sure that wasn't filmed? Beyond that, have you looked for any alternative explanations? Why does that one SS agent have a broad smile on his face? Here's the reality: the agent in question was actually assigned to guard AF One. His sheepish grin is because he was caught trying to go on the motorcade instead.

Duh.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #341
343. what a bunch of trumped up garbage. Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

I looked at this film in detail and saw no such imaginings.


The guy shrugged three times each more dumbfounded, as to the why for the obvious question on the secret service mans face, for leaving the customary guard posts built into the limousine at the rear to provide vital protection to the President.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

Look again for yourself if your righteous propaganda holds up. There are places on the back of the limousine where ss are meant to be for even the barest protection of an open limousine. Duh indeed

The next lame excuse....So AF1 is more important than the president? As if there are not enough SS to do both many times over. Duh indeed.

And the next even lamer excuse. Why would they allow filming of the goings on....That is so stupid it does not even deserve a comment. Gee why are there films of everything that happened that day; Beyond everyone having a camera, there were reporters all over the place, with telescopic paraphernalia to film anything. Films of this president were gold. Duh indeed.

Do you take us for idiots that we would swallow such propagandist claptrap.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #343
344. I'm going to ask you politely one time...
Edited on Wed Sep-29-10 03:13 PM by SDuderstadt
to quit using the term "propagandist". If you think smearing me as such helps you win the "debate", you are sadly mistaken.

Secondly, my point is that the agent in question was assigned to guard AF One to begin with. Simple question: if the agent had initially been assigned to the motorcade, then why didn't he come forward and say, "I was supposed to be on the Presidential Limo and was inexplicably pulled off and that's why JFk died"? More importantly, a large number of JFK assassination conspiracists claim JFK was also shot from the front. If that is, in fact, true, why are conspiracists so preoccupied with an agent who tried to abandon his duty post so he could ride along with the "boss"?

Pretty soon nearly every direct eyewitness and/or participant in that day's events (other than the shooting) will probably be dead. After that, you guys can accuse anyone and everyone without contradiction.

Oswald did it, dude. What evidence do you need to see to convince you of that?
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #344
347. Just answering to the
Edited on Wed Sep-29-10 03:38 PM by k-robjoe
question :

>"More importantly, a large number of JFK assassination conspiracists claim JFK was also shot from the front. If that is, in fact, true, why are conspiracists so preoccupied with an agent who tried to abandon his duty post so he could ride along with the "boss"?"

This can be confusing. The theory is that the conspirators had snipers placed behind the limousine ( School Book Depository / Dal-Tex ), and also in front of the limousine ( Grassy Knoll ).

So the plan is that the snipers behind the limousine does the job, and the sniper ( snipers? ) on the grassy knoll will only fire if the others for some reason fail.

So with this plan they would need a clear view from behind. And a clear view from the grassy knoll. ( No motorcycles driving beside the front bumpers, as they usually did. All of them behind the limousine. )

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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #344
348. what's the source for that?
I don't follow this stuff. How do you know that the agent was assigned to Air Force One? (Seems pretty wild to abandon one's duty post to run alongside JFK -- I mean, how was he going to get away with that?)

The video implies that it was routine to have agents stationed at the rear corners of the limo. Status?

I don't see how any of this is pivotal to the assassination; I'm just wondering.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #348
350. Rybka
Apparently, after the assassination, Emory Roberts, the guy telling the agent to get off the limousine, wrote in a report that the agent in question ( Rybka ) was in the followup car at the time of the assassination :

http://www.copweb.be/Emory%20Roberts.htm

( Havent double-checked this, so let me know if its false. )

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #348
352. Pre-emptive mea culpa...
I was doing this one from memory and, based upon something K-robjoe said, I might have gotten it wrong and Rybka might have already been assigned to drive one of the follow-up cars. In my opinion, taking a very grainy film clip and intuiting from it that Rybka was deliberately and maliciously "pulled off" the limo has no more merit than most of the other JFK assassination conspiracy bullshit.

I'm kinda busy, but I'll track it down.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #352
353. fair enough
No hurry.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #348
357. More on Emory Roberts
Edited on Thu Sep-30-10 02:15 PM by k-robjoe
About how Emory Roberts seemed to "switch" once Kennedy was dead :

"Presidential aides Ken O'Donnell and Dave Powers best summed up the situation when they wrote: "Roberts, one of President Kennedy's agents...had decided to switch to Johnson as soon as Kennedy was shot. In addition, four other authors have noted Agent Roberts' "switch of allegiance," including Chief Curry.

Once at Parkland Hospital, SA Roberts totally usurped his superior, number-three agent Roy Kellerman. Emory ordered Kellerman's agents around and confided in Rufus Youngblood, the soon-to-be SAIC, replacing the absent Behn.

What William Manchester reports as having occurred at Parkland makes one both sick and repulsed: "Powers and O'Donnell bounded toward the Lincoln. Powers heard Emory Roberts shouting at him to stop but disregarded him; a second might save Kennedy's life (...)

Emory Roberts brushed past O'Donnell, determined to make sure that Kennedy was dead. 'Get up,' he said to Jacqueline Kennedy. There was no reply. She was crooning faintly. From his side Roberts could see the President's face, so he lifted her elbow for a close look. He dropped it. To Kellerman, his superior, he said tersely, 'You stay with Kennedy. I'm going to Johnson.'" "

http://vincepalamara.blogspot.com/2010/01/kenny-odonnel...

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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #357
365. Same guy
The same guy - Emory Roberts - called back an agent who was about to run up to the limousine when he heard the first shot.

The reason Emory Roberts gave for this, seems pretty lame :

"Special Agent Ready, on the right front running board of the Presidential follow-up car, heard noises that sounded like firecrackers and ran toward the President's limousine. But he was immediately called back by Special Agent Emory P. Roberts, in charge of the follow-up car, who did not believe that he could reach, the President's car at the speed it was then traveling."

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-...

Clint Hill must have ignored the order from Emory Roberts to stay put.

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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-10 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #357
366. Press car
Getting the press out of the way?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUUH9jNSXjc

"The press photographers who normally rode in a flatbed truck
directly in front of Kennedy's limousine were relegated to a position behind the presidents limousine. According to reporter Tom Dillard, this change occurred at the last minute at Love Field."

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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #343
346. Everett Kay
In this video-clip Everett Kay explains that after they got on tape Mr. Miteer, saying that an assassination of Kennedy was in the works, they added extra security for his trip to Miami, november 19.

Then the clip ends with a quote from the HSCA Report, that no word about this was sent to the Agents preparing security for the trip to Dallas.

Pretty unbelievable.

"In this video, lead detective Everett Kay describes setting up the surveillance, discusses the contents of the tape and discloses what security changes for the President's November 18th visit to Miami were made in light of the threat."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdbVyhzCcq4

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Yeahyeah Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. He should keep it zipped and die,goddammit!And die broke too!
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. google JFK II if you haven't already. too many coincidences
To me, that pretty much gets it close to the right ball park.
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gazeteere Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. OMG I can't believe all this silliness.
Edited on Sat Aug-21-10 01:22 PM by gazeteere
Everybody knows that Johnson and Hoover framed Lee Harvey Oswald, this is all very clear, there is no mystery left.

There's nothing left to debate, the culbrits are clear.

Is anybody not clearly aware of Nixon's involvement in this entire affair?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
228. Interesting link --
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
96. I watched this movie again to refresh my memory....
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 02:26 AM by SDuderstadt
you realize that this "film maker" not only gets multiple facts wrong, he outright lies in it repeatedly, right? For example, the name of one of the ships in the Bay of Pigs was the "Barbara J", not the "Barbara". Why does the "film maker" lie about this? Because, Barbara Bush's maiden name was Pierce, so the "J" cannot possibly stand for her former name. So what? It probably is her middle initial, right? Just one problem...she didn't have a middle name.

What a bunch of CT bullshit. And you got taken in by it. Any time to want to go head-to-head on this stupid movie, just let me know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Bush

http://www.accuracyproject.org/cbe-Bush,Barbara.html

http://www.whosaliveandwhosdead.com/n/bush__ba.htm

http://www.answers.com/topic/barbara-bush

http://www.answers.com/topic/barbara-bush

Late on April 16, 1961, the CIA/Brigade 2506 invasion fleet converged on "Rendezvous Point Zulu", about 65 kilometres (40 mi) south of Cuba, having sailed from Puerto Cabezas in Nicaragua where they had been loaded with troops and other materiel, after loading arms and supplies at New Orleans. The US Navy operation was code-named Bumpy Road, having been changed from Crosspatch on 1 April 1961<12>. The fleet, labelled the "Cuban Expeditionary Force" (CEF), included five 2,400-ton (empty weight) freighter ships chartered by the CIA from the Garcia Line and outfitted with anti-aircraft guns. Four of the freighters, Houston (code name Aguja), Ro Escondido (code name Balena), Caribe (code name Sardina), and Atlntico (code-name Tiburon), were planned to transport about 1,400 troops in seven battalions of troops and armaments near to the invasion beaches. The fifth freighter, Lake Charles, was loaded with follow-up supplies and some Operation 40 infiltration personnel. The freighters sailed under Liberian ensigns. Accompanying them were two LCIs (Landing Craft Infantry) "purchased" from Zapata Corporation then outfitted with heavy armament at Key West, then exercises and training at Vieques Island. The LCIs were Blagar (code-name Marsopa) and Barbara J (code-name Barracuda), sailing under Nicaraguan ensigns. The CEF ships were individually escorted (outside visual range) to Point Zulu by US Navy destroyers USS Bache, USS Beale, USS Conway, USS Cony, USS Eaton, USS Murray, USS Waller. A task force had already assembled off the Cayman Islands, including aircraft carrier USS Essex with task force commander John A. Clark (Admiral) onboard, helicopter assault carrier USS Boxer, destroyers USS Hank, USS John W. Weeks, USS Purdy, USS Wren, and submarines USS Cobbler and USS Threadfin. Command and control ship USS Northampton and carrier USS Shangri-La were also reportedly active in the Caribbean at the time. USS San Marcos was a Landing Ship Dock that carried three LCUs (Landing Craft Utility) and four LCVPs (Landing Craft, Vehicles, Personnel). San Marcos had sailed from Vieques Island. At Point Zulu, the seven CEF ships sailed north without the USN escorts, except for San Marcos that continued until the seven landing craft were unloaded when just outside the 5 kilometres (3 mi) Cuban territorial limit.<5><18><43>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Dude...
JFK himself talked that day of possibly being shot from an office building. Are you honestly claiming Milteer is providing specific detail? Sounds pretty vague to me. In fact, they don't even have the date right.

Beyond that, in his memoir, EMK reaffirmed his confidence in the WC. Are you suggesting he wasn't really a Dem?

I'm every bit as much a Dem as you are and probably more so.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Dude, how's that Journal coming?
Milteer was pretty specific:

Thirteen days before Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, a man named Joseph Milteer was tape recorded telling Miami police informant William Somersett that the murder of Kennedy was "in the working," that the best means of killing Kennedy was "from an office building with a high-powered rifle," and that "they will pick up somebody within hours afterwards, if anything like that would happen just to throw the public off."

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Predictions_o...

BTW: Where did you get the idea I was writing about you?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. "Where did you get the idea I was writing about you?"
Edited on Sun Aug-22-10 02:44 PM by SDuderstadt
Because that's your M.O., dude. You can't prevail on the facts, so you assail our motivation.

Not only that, you also try to divert attention away from questions you're asked that you cannot answer. I have no interest in writing a "journal", dude. You're doing a fine job embarrassing the JFK assassination conspiracy "community" all by yourself.

IN the meantime, you claimed that Milteer "pretty much outlined the 'official version of Dallas' before it happened". Really, dude? Did he mention Oswald? Hint: no. Why would that be so hard to include if Milteer had knowledge of a specific plot? It's no secret that Milteer wanted JFK dead, but so did a lot of RW nuts.

I'm certain you think Nostradamus made specific predictions too, dude. But, like all JFK assassination CT's, you leave vital information out, because it undercuts your case. The reader can follow the link below to see what you've "forgotten" to mention.

It's been nearly 5 decades, dude...are you guys close to blowing the lid off this thing?

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/milteer.htm
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. John McAdams is something else.
What that is, I don't exactly know. I agree with people who say he is a professional right wing debunker and hate monger. What's odd, to me, is he teaches at a Jesuit university.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Jesus, here we go again...
Dude...are you really offering up Hargrove as your proof of something? He's not only a very poor writer, he offers little to no documentation for his claims. For example, he claims that one picture is of McAdams gleefully deleting posts from JFK CT's. How, specifically, does Hargrove establish the context for that picture? Does Hargrove claim McAdams has distributed that picture and provided that synopsis? Did Hargrove somehow secretly snap a picture of McAdams committing this "nefarious deed" without McAdams knowing it? Hargrove doesn't say. I'm sure to the casual reader it looks like McAdams simply smiling about something, whatever it is.

The very fact that you would submit something like this as "proof" of anything is why I question your ability to assemble facts, analyze, evaluate and interpret them, then draw reasonable and supportable conclusions from them. You never fail to disappoint me.

No one is questioning your right to question the conclusions of the WCR or the HSCA, for that matter. But, if you want people to embrace your fantasies about whomever you think actually killed JFK, you'll have to come up with some actual proof, not more confused, disjointed JFK assassination CT nonsense. You've had nearly fifty years, dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
65. ''You've had nearly fifty years, dude.''
Whether committed by one person or a conspiracy of many, there's no statute of limitations on murder or treason.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Quit pretending I'm talking about a "statute of limitations, dude...
The issue is the incompetence and/or stubbornness of JFK assassination conspiracy theorists, who, after nearly fifty years, still have exactly dick for evidence. Why can't you point to at least one real breakthrough within that time?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. Abraham Bolden
Abraham Bolden was the first African American Secret Service agent, personally selected by JFK for White House duty. He helped stop the Chicago plot to assassinate President Kennedy. He spoke up about lack security after Dallas and got railroaded.

Ex-Secret Service agent reveals Chicago JFK plot

The great author and journalist Edwin Black broke the story, way back when (PDF):

The Plot to Kill JFK in Chicago

Hope these answer your question, sduderstadt: "The issue is the incompetence and/or stubbornness of JFK assassination conspiracy theorists, who, after nearly fifty years, still have exactly dick for evidence. Why can't you point to at least one real breakthrough within that time?"

After reading about Abraham Bolden, you will have learned that there is an abundance of evidence for government cover-up, as well as apparent complicity, in the assassination.

One question you should be asking is: Why don't more people know Bolden's story? That answer must lie with America's corrupt corporate media, for-profit organizations not known for any great interest in spreading inconvenient truth.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Another diversion from you, dude...
man, you'll throw up anything to divert attention away from your spectacular lack of results.

Well, it's not like the media have ignored him:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

And, of course, you neglected to mention that the HSCA took testimony from him and rejected his claims and you also forgot to mention a rather important part of Bolden's history, dude.



355 F.2d 453
United States Court of Appeals Seventh Circuit.
UNITED STATES of America, Plaintiff-Appellee,
v.
Abraham W. BOLDEN, Defendant-Appellant.
No. 14907.
Dec. 29, 1965, Rehearing Denied Feb. 25, 1966, En Banc.
Defendant was convicted in the United States District Court for the
Northern District of Illinois, Eastern Division, Joseph Samuel Perry,
Judge, of soliciting bribe in return for violating defendant's
official duties as Secret Service agent, and defendant appealed. The
Court of Appeals, Swygert, Circuit Judge, held, inter alia other things], that Secret Service agent charged with soliciting bribe
could not first complain on appeal of deprivation of counsel at
prearrest interrogation.
Affirmed.


http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bolden.pdf

I eagerly await your next attempt to deflect attention away from your rather embarrassing track record, dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #73
82. Despite your provocations, I've tried to be nice. So answer my question: What part isn't true?
It's been a year and I'm still waiting for you to show me where I've posted something that wasn't true.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #82
95. Gladly...
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 12:17 AM by SDuderstadt
let's start with your assertion that one cannot be satisfied with the conclusions of the WC or the HSCA and still be a good Democrat.

Are you saying EMK was not a good Democrat? Or, are you, more likely, smearing people who dare to disagree with you on the facts?

Next up will be your rather silly claim that George H.W. Bush was somehow involved in the murder of JFK. Sure you want to do this, dude?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. No. Still wrong.
Where did I ever say that my opinion was fact? Got a link for your assertion?

I've got more than 22,000 posts. So, it's not easy finding it.

Oh yeah, I've also got a journal where you can read my opinions and posts. That makes it easy to see where I stand.

You on the other hand, don't have a journal, making it more difficult to see the overall concerns of your postings. Thus, I have to rely on the DU Advance Search function and GOOGLEing "sduderstadt + EMK", for example, to find where you stand.

Most revealing, words. They stand for ideas, you know.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. More of your smears...
dude. What is "most revealing" about my words about EMK?

Simple fact: EMK accepted the conclusions of the Warren Commission. You're still going down this path of questioning the motivation of anyone who disagrees with you on the facts and, more importantly, debunks your goofy bullshit.

And, of course, now you're trying to weasel out of your assertion that one can accept the WCR and still be a Democrat. I'm going to ask you to quit assailing my motivation rather than stick to a discussion of the facts. Your choice, dude.

Still sure you want to go down this path?

I'll repeat my challenge. What, precisely, is "most revealing" about anything I have said about EMK, dude? Or, we can play it a different way and I'll start using your tactics against you. You'll lose either way.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #99
101. You haven't posted a single source, author or even link. And, I have to answer you? LOL!
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 03:14 PM by Octafish
As for "smear," where is your link where I "assert" that only Democrats refute the Warren Commission? I have your assertion, but no reference where we can see what you describe.

While I have written about my beliefs, such as my belief that George Herbert Walker Bush played some role in the assassination, based on his report to the FBI that he was in Dallas on the day of the assassination, I have made clear to indicate it as such. When I present the reasons why I feel that way, I provide a source.

So, I ask again: Where have I posted something that is not true?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. LOL??
What do you find funny about the JFK assassination?

See how it feels, dude?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #104
114. My point: Hoover did 'lie his eyes out.' For example, FBI destroyed critical evidence after Dallas.
In the hours after Jack Ruby shot Oswald, the FBI destroyed a note Oswald wrote to Special Agent James P. Hosty.



Destruction of the Oswald Note

In 1975, the allegation surfaced that the FBI had destroyed a note delivered to it by Lee Harvey Oswald, just one or two weeks prior to the assassination of President Kennedy. An internal FBI investigation failed to find any records relating to this, but interviews of Dallas Field Office personnel established that an Oswald visit and note dropoff had occurred.

The House Judiciary Committee heard testimony from several relevant witnesses, as did the contemporaneous Church Committee. The results of this were:
    Oswald definitely did visit the Dallas Field Office a week to two weeks prior to the assassination, looking for Agent Hosty, who had recently visited his wife Marina.
    When told that Hosty was not in, Oswald left a note in an envelope which was unsealed.
    The note contained some sort of threat, but accounts varied widely as to whether Oswald threatened to "blow up the FBI" or merely "report this to higher authorities."
    Within hours after Oswald's murder on 24 Nov 1963, Hosty destroyed the note and a memorandum which Special-Agent-in-Charge Gordon Shanklin had ordered written on November 22.
Hosty maintained that Shanklin, the head of hte Dallas Field Office, had ordered him to destroy the note. Shanklin denied ever having heard of the note until 1975, though Assistant Director William Sullivan did recall the incident. The House Select Committee on Assassinations reviewed the incident and did not find Shanklin's denial credible.

CONTINUED...

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Destruction_o...



BTW: Are you trying to get me mad, sduderstadt? All you do is magnify the tiniest fault in what I write and ignore the falsehoods you peddle, specifically that I lie. I've asked you to show me where, yet you can't. LOL! LOL at you, sduderstadt.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #114
118. This is unintentional irony, right?
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 12:36 PM by SDuderstadt
"all you do is magnify the tiniest error in what I write and ignore the falsehoods that you peddle, specifically that I lie"

Really, dude? Then it shouldn't be hard for to provide an example of anywhere that I have ever accused you of a lie. I'd be happy with a single example. Good luck with that.

It'd also be great if you could provide an example of a single falsehood I've peddled, especially after it's so obvious I have never, ever once accused you of lying.

This "debate" is suspended until you withdraw your false accusation and apologize, dude. I would throw in one more choice, that of finding an example of any time I have accused you of a lie, but we've already witnessed you step on your dick in an embarrassingly public way.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #118
122. Apologize for what? Stating what's obvious to anyone who reads this thread?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #122
125. For your false accusation...
dude. Your "who, me?" defense isn't working.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #99
106. I'll ask again, dude....
what is "most revealing" in what I've written about EMK, dude?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #106
115. The volume, Dude.
Loud and Lots. All hot air.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #115
117. Another cryptic, incoherent...
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 11:14 AM by SDuderstadt
response from you. You made the sinister-sounding claim that what I've written about EMK is "most revealing".When I call you on it and request clarification, you, true to your m.o., further mystify it with a bullshit answer, which is why I don't regard you as a serious JFK assassination conspiracy theory "researcher", dude.

Simple question: wtf are you babbling about now?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #117
123. You answer my question: What did I write that wasn't true?
You don't, because you can't.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #123
124. I alreasdy pointed out several, dude...
withdrawal and apology coming?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #124
127. No, you haven't.
What you seem to be doing is trying to incite an angry response from me.

Would that make you happy?

Why don't you do what I asked over a year ago? Show me where I what I wrote was false. I'd be happy to admit a mistake. But, you can't. So, you don't. Dude.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #127
128. I've done it over and over...
dude.

I suspect you get embarrassed getting shown up in front of your little groupies, so you make false accusations.

I see you can't find an example of my accusing you of a lie, so you try to change the subject.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-10 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #128
196. What ''little groupies?''
Are they the same people you sanctimoniously implore to rise above name-calling for 24 hours on September 11?

If so, you are again wrong, sduderstadt. I don't need to team up with anybody to answer your false allegations.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-10 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #196
197. Here we go again...
Please, oh please, point to a single false allegation from me.

Please don't let your little groupies down.
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Jamwill Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. The sad part is...he was sent to jail...and the main witness later confessed to being a liar
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 09:30 PM by Jamwill
About Bolden.

People defending the official theory will not mention the fact that the main witness was a liar, so be ready to point that out.

From another article I read, this one in the Washington Post: "Convicted on testimony from the shadiest of characters, he was denied appeals even when a key trial witness confessed to perjury."
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. If you're going to make claims...
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 09:53 PM by SDuderstadt
you might want to provide some documentation of them.

Hint: Goofy bullshit conspiracy theory websites don't count, dude.

In point of fact, your "quote" is actually from a book review by Bruce Watson, which, although it did appear in the Washington Post, was not a hard news "article", the impression you leave the reader with.

Which incarnation is this one?
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Jamwill Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Even the WAPO link you gave us says it (Plus the Chicago Tribune)
You gave us a link to read...and now you tell us that lies are told in the article?

Washington Post (your link): "Despite having a spotless record, Bolden found himself charged with selling government information to a suspect. Convicted on testimony from the shadiest of characters, he was denied appeals even when a key trial witness confessed to perjury."

And...

Chicago Tribune: "After testifying against Bolden, Spagnoli went on trial himself, accused of counterfeiting. During his testimony, under questioning by legendary Chicago defense lawyer Frank Oliver, Spagnoli admitted he had perjured himself during Bolden's triallying about how he made a living to cover up illegal gamblingbut a judge cut off further efforts to find out what else he might have lied about.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/eediti...


I guess the newspapers are part of a conspiracy to pretend Spagnoli committed perjury. See? Conspiracies exist!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. Dude...
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 09:57 PM by SDuderstadt
since when is a "book review" an article?

I see that you're up to your old tricks, whatever your name is.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. "and now you tell us that lies are told in the article?"
BTW, dude...I said no such thing. This is just you dishonestly mischaracterizing what I actually said, then trying to have a completely different argument. Just like several other incarnations.

No dice, whatever your name is this time.
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. When I retire...
... I'm thinking of writing a screenplay for my own version of JFK, except it will take all the conspiracy theories and show that they all coincidentally decided to do it in Dealey Plaza on November 22. (Oswald himself will need to be at least a quintuple agent, but I don't think that's a problem.) As I see it, that's the only possible explanation for why there are so many convincing theories, so my movie will be much better than Stone's.

But I digress. Anyway, I don't seem to see a lot of people, Democrats or otherwise, "cast aspersions on those who are interested in learning more about the assassination of President Kennedy." Making implausible factual claims is a different story, however, regardless of the topic.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. The Joseph Milteer tape is evidence of conspiracy. IMO, it should've been emphasized by Mr. Stone.
My Friend, I look forward to seeing your movie. Let me know when the script is written and I'll be happy to help you get in touch with some people.



PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF CONSPIRACY IN THE JFK ASSASSINATION

Michael T. Griffith

2002

EXCERPT...

The Joseph Milteer Tape

Joseph Milteer was a wealthy, well-connected right-wing extremist. Milteer was a leader in the right-wing National States Rights Party and a regional director for the radical Constitution Party. He associated with leaders and members of the Ku Klux Klan. A few months before the assassination, Milteer contacted anti-Castro Cubans in the Miami area about purchasing guns. On November 9, 1963, less than three weeks before the assassination, Milteer told a Miami police informant that a hit on Kennedy was in the works. The informant's name was William Somersett. The room where Milteer met Somersett was wired for sound by the police and thus Milteer's words were captured on tape. The Milteer tape is available online and is included in several documentaries on the assassination. When Milteer met with the informant after the assassination, he said everything had gone according to plan and that he knew beforehand that Kennedy was going to be killed. The HSCA Report says the following about the Milteer threat:
    Similarly, the Secret Service failed to follow up fully on a threat in Miami, also in November 1963. On November 9, 1963, an informant for the Miami police, William Somersett, had secretly recorded a conversation with a rightwing extremist named Joseph A. Milteer, who suggested there was a plot in existence to assassinate the President with a high-powered rifle from a tall building. Miami Police intelligence officers met with Secret Service agents on November 12 and provided a transcript of the Somersett recording. It read in part:

      SOMERSETT. I think Kennedy is coming here November 18 to make some kind of speech. I don't know what it is, but I imagine it will be on TV.
      MILTEER. You can bet your bottom dollar he is going to have a lot to say about the Cubans; there are so many of them here.
      SOMERSETT. Well, he'll have a thousand bodyguards, don't worry about that.
      MILTEER. The more bodyguards he has, the easier it is to get him.
      SOMERSETT. What?
      MILTEER. The more bodyguards he has, the easier it is to get him.
      SOMERSETT. Well, how in the hell do you figure would be the best way to get him?
      MILTEER. From an office building with a high-powered rifle....
      SOMERSETT. They are really going to try to kill him?
      MILTEER. Oh, yeah; it is in the working....
      SOMERSETT. ...Hitting this Kennedy is going to be a hard proposition. I believe you may have figured out a way to get him, the office building and all that. I don't know how them Secret Service agents cover all them office buildings everywhere he is going. Do you know whether they do that or not?
      MILTEER. Well, if they have any suspicion, they do that, of course. But without suspicion, chances are that they wouldn't.

    During the meeting at which the Miami Police Department provided this transcript to the Secret Service, it also advised the Secret Service that Milteer had been involved with persons who professed a dislike for President Kennedy and were suspected of having committed violent acts, including the bombing of a Birmingham, Ala. church in which four young girls had been killed. They also reported that Milteer was connected with several radical rightwing organizations and traveled extensively throughout the United States in support of their views. . . .

    Following the assassination, Somersett again met with Milteer. Milteer commented that things had gone as he had predicted. Somersett asked if Milteer actually had known in advance of the assassination or had just been guessing. Milteer asserted that he had been certain beforehand about the inevitability of the assassination. (HSCA Report, pp. 232-233)
Lone-gunman theorists have strongly challenged both Milteer and the informant Somersett. They dismiss Milteer's statements as demented, over-heated speculation, noting that Milteer believed Kennedy had fifteen look-alikes for security purposes. They also point to a few discrepancies between Somersett's initial debriefing with the Miami Police Department's Intelligence Unit and his later statement to the FBI. For example, Somersett told the FBI that Milteer called him from Dallas on the morning of the assassination and said Kennedy probably wouldn't leave there alive. Yet Somersett said nothing about this in his initial debriefing with the Miami police, and there is evidence Milteer was in fact in Georgia at the time of the assassination. Lone-gunman theorists also note that an FBI official and a Secret Service official said Somersett was unreliable. They fail to mention that the FBI sought to discredit virtually any informant who had information that pointed to conspiracy in the assassination, even if the informant had a good record for reliability. The Secret Service official whom Warren Commission apologists cite didn't attack Somersett until 1967, when Somersett was cooperating with Jim Garrison's investigation. Other law enforcement officials who dealt with Somersett believed he was reliable. And, some lone-gunman theorists claim Milteer specified that Jack Brown would kill Kennedy and/or that the assassination would happen in Washington, D.C. The Milteer tape proves both claims to be incorrect. Milteer only suggested Brown could kill Kennedy--he didn't say Brown would positively be the man to do it. Nor did Milteer say the shooting would occur in D.C. Somersett discussed this issue in his 11/26/63 interview with the Miami Police Department's Intelligence Unit:
    The impression I get from him , I think the thing was set up to kill Mr. Kennedy in the South, in some southern state. There was no particular town picked out, it was just the opportunity of the town that would suit best when the proper time comes. I think that when this man Mr. Kennedy left Miami, it was published in the papers, where he would go, and I think that they just set this man up in Texas and had him kill him right there. Because Milteer is too much enthused over it, he discussed it too much before hand and after not to know something about it.
Furthermore, it should be noted that a Secret Service report (CE 762) documents that the Secret Service received information from an FBI source that reinforced Milteer's taped prediction and that supported Somersett's account. The report dealt with information that the Secret Service received from the FBI just seven days before the assassination. According to the report, an unnamed contact in the Ku Klux Klan said that during his travels around the country his sources had told him "that a militant group of the National States Rights Party plans to assassinate the President and other high-level officials" (see also Dick Russell, The Man Who Knew Too Much, New York: Carroll & Graf/Richard Gallen, 1992, pp. 550-551). As mentioned, Milteer was a leader in the National States Rights Party and was involved with other radical groups. He was certainly in a position to hear about a plot by radical right-wing militants to kill Kennedy, and the tape of his November 9 meeting with Somersett records that he was certain a hit on Kennedy was "in the working."

SOURCE:

http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/physical.htm



BTW: Sorry you don't see a surprising number of DUers, people who call themselves Democrats and democrats, who cast aspersion on those seeking Truth in regards to the assassination of President Kennedy. They are all around.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I'm calling your bluff, dude....
Sorry you don't see a surprising number of DUers, people who call themselves Democrats and democrats, who cast aspersion on those seeking Truth in regards to the assassination of President Kennedy. They are all around.


If "they" are all around, point to one. Be specific. Take your time.

BTW, it's pretty funny that you accuse "us" of casting aspersion, even as you cast aspersions.

What a hoot.

Can we expect any progress in you guys blowing the lid off this thing, dude?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. It's no bluff. Here's what you wrote about the JFK assassination...
Coming from you, thats quite a compliment.

You were most emphatic in your assertions, but most lacking in your sourcing. It was part of a larger thread in Latest Breaking News:

(Michigan) County Commissioner Compares Obama to Hitler

Hope DUers visit and see how you falsely illustrated the amount of evidence uncovered -- the proper verb, when considering the FBI and CIA have consistently lied to the Warren Commission and the American people in regards to the assassination of President Kennedy for more than 46 years.



DUers who visit the above the thread may also see "zero" is about what you measure as the NAZI influence on the American national security state. Again, you are entitled to state your own opinion. My point is I won't disparage you for it.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Sigh....
Edited on Sun Aug-22-10 04:59 PM by SDuderstadt
dude, the challenge to you was to point to a single example where I or anyone else "cast aspersions" on you or any other JFK assassination conspiracy theorist. Thanks for proving my point.

Where, oh where, in there is an aspersion? Did I question your motivation? Hint: no. Did I call you a name? Hint: no. Did I suggest that you had some sort of nefarious purpose in what you posted? Hint: no.

What I did, and have done, is to question your grasp of the actual facts, as well as your ability to analyze, evaluate and draw conclusions. That's not "casting aspersions". You, on the other hand, sillily suggest that one cannot be a Democrat and simultaneously believe the WCR and subsequent investigations provide the best explanation of that day. In Logic that's called "psychic foreclosure". You try to win the debate by reflexively casting aspersions on the Democratic credentials of anyone who dares to disagree with you on the facts.

As I previously pointed out, EMK, in his memoir, reaffirmed his confidence in, and acceptance of, the conclusions of the WCR. That, in and of itself, disproves your rather silly claim, unless you can somehow establish how EMK was actually a Republican, dude.

This gets sillier by the moment. You guys have had nearly FIFTY years to bust this thing wide open and you keep rebunking the same previously debunked nonsense. I have also posed a question to you over and over with nothing that remotely resembles a cogent answer over the lifecycle of the question.

Simple question; We know from Connally's surgeon, Dr. Shaw, that Connally's entrance wound was in his back, thus establishing he was hit from behind. Given the relative positions of Connally and JFK in the limo, how did the bullet hit Connally where it did WITHOUT first hitting JFK?

Pretty soon all the direct witnesses from that day will be gone and you and your fellow "theorists" can have a field day, because you can assert nearly anything you want without fear of direct contradiction. Tell me something, dude. What, specifically, is holding you guys back?
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Damn! I just found out that the Onion beat me to it
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midwestnerman Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. Don't expect them to address the Milteer article
They will write it off as yet another coincidence.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. See posts # 27 and 31...
dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Coincidence or Plausible Deniability?
Don't know, but I'd like to know.

BTW: A hearty welcome to DU, midwestnerman. Thanks for giving a damn about the state we're in.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. You might want to check "midwestnerman's" profile, dude...
I believe he's over at the "pizza shop" with "stevedesmond", "30rock" and several of his other aliases.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Wow! Did not know that. I always try to welcome people to DU, even the dungeon.
How did you know abot the other aliases? Are you a moderator?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. No, dude...
Edited on Mon Aug-23-10 04:09 PM by SDuderstadt
if I was, there would be a moderator icon behind my screenname. Duh.

Read the posts from the various aliases and note the identical languaging and "argument" style (typically a strawman).

I suspect what did "midwestnerman" in was the use of the phrase "that's a tangled web you've weaved (sic) for yourself" which, coincidentally was precisely the same phrase 30rock employed, right down to the poor grammar. Although, it's also possible he was kicked out just for having a stupid screenname. If your last name was "nerman", would you go around parading it all about?

I'd appreciate it if you'd drop the insinuation that I am a moderator, dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Then, if you're not a moderator, mind your own business.
And, while you're at it, find some other post to comment on.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. You don't seem to understand the concept of a...
public discussion board, dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #52
66. Like always getting the last word in, right, dude?
That's asinine.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. "Waaaah! Quit replying to my...
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 05:58 PM by SDuderstadt
replies! Waaaaaaaah!"

For the life of me, I don't know why you can't learn to laugh at yourself, dude. Everybody else does.

Too funny.


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #68
98. Define ''Everybody.''
You? Be my guest. You can laugh all you want.

BTW: You still haven't answered my question: Show me where I've posted something that wasn't true?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. See post # 95....
dude. And, I should have been clearer when I used the term "everybody". I meant to say everybody outside your little circle of groupies, dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. Nobody there. No link. No sources. Just you and your accusation. Big deal. Dude.
You can make all the accusations you want, yet you still fail to show me where what I have posted is not true.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #102
105. Fucking unbelievable...
are you somehow asking me to prove that Bush I didn't kill JFK? I am basically pointing out that you have failed to prove your claim and you can't get off the hook by claiming it's merely your "belief", dude. Beyond that, do you honestly believe that an FBI memo that establishes he was on his way to Dallas at the time of the assassination proves some degree of involvement?? He lived in Houston, dude.

Trying to reason with you reminds me of that great scene from "The Usual Suspects" when the police accost Todd Hockney at his garage after the heist and announce to him, "we can place you in Queens on the day of the heist". Hockney chuckles to himself and says, "Really? I live in Queens". So, unless you can somehow show that Bush engineered JFK's trip to Dallas and/or Bush had no legitimate reason to be in Dallas that day, as I have noted before, you've got exactly dick.

Actually, what it really reminds me of is arguing with RWers when Juanita Broaderick leveled rape accusations at Bill Clinton. Since he was running for governor at the time, the RWers (no kidding) tried to argue that Clinton should be compelled to produce his campaign calendar and, if it showed that Clinton was in Little Rock the day Broadderick alleged, that would PROVE that Clinton raped her. With the same chuckle as Hockney, I reminded them that Clinton was the sitting A.G. at the time and, therefore, his OFFICE was in Little Rock and, I "believe", he and Hillary lived in LR at the time.

Surely you're smarter than a RWer, aren't you, dude?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #105
113. Don't know if I'm smarter than anybody. If I were, I certainly wouldn't brag about it.
Tell you what: I am smart enough to know that I don't know everything. That's why I'm interested in the assassination of President Kennedy -- I don't believe the Warren Commission version is anywhere near the truth.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #113
116. I'm willing to bet that...
you've never actually read the WCR, dude. It's evident from the questions you ask and the goofy conspiracy theory bullshit you dispense.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #116
126. Why does putting words in my mouth make you so happy?
I've got a copy of the 888-page thing. Don't need to re-read it to make you happy. Here's a resource for those, like me, who think it's bogus:



THE WARREN COMMISSION'S FAILED INVESTIGATION

Michael T. Griffith
2002
@All Rights Reserved
Revised and Expanded on 2/19/2002

EXCERPT...

Critics of the Warren Commission have identified numerous errors, omissions, and shortcomings in the commission's investigation, many of which were also identified by the HSCA. Here are some of them:
    1. The commission failed to produce a credible explanation for the wounding of bystander James Tague in Dealey Plaza during the shooting. The Tague wounding is evidence that more than three shots were fired.

    2. The commission missed, or ignored, indications in the Zapruder film (1) that a shot was fired prior to frame 166, i.e., before the limousine passed beneath the oak tree on Elm Street, and (2) that another shot was fired while the sixth-floor gunman's view of the limousine would have been obscured and even blocked, i.e., at around frames 185-190.

    3. The commission misrepresented the results of its own wound ballistics tests with regard to both the single-bullet theory and the fatal head shot.

    4. The commission failed to mention in its report that one of its members, Senator Richard Russell, had very strong doubts about the single-bullet theory, and that two other members of the commission shared some of Russell's doubts. We now know that Russell outright rejected the theory, and that the commission suppressed from the official record Russell's objections to it. Russell forced one last executive meeting of the commission, in order to put on the record his objections to the single-bullet theory. The meeting was held on September 18, 1964. At the meeting, Russell distributed copies of a memo in which he outlined his objections to the single-bullet scenario. Russell naturally expected that the minutes of the meeting would reflect his objections. However, someone created a fake transcript of the meeting. The existing transcript of the September 18 meeting says nothing about Russell's strong objections to the single-bullet theory. Nor does it mention that Russell forced the meeting to have his objections recorded for the official record. Nor does it mention that Russell handed out a copy of his written objections at the meeting. None of these things is even mentioned in the extant transcript of the meeting. When the fake transcript of the meeting was brought to light in 1968, Russell was very upset after reading it. The Assassination Records Review Board attempted to locate the original transcript, but was unable to do so. (Incidentally, one year after the bogus transcript was released, Russell stated in a filmed interview that he was not convinced Oswald had acted alone.)

    5. The commission rejected the account of Silvia Odio on the basis of bogus evidence and unproven assertions. The Odio incident indicates that Oswald was involved with anti-Castro Cuban exiles who were talking about killing Kennedy or that someone was impersonating Oswald while he was in Mexico City. Apparently the Warren Commission didn't want to deal with either implication of the Odio incident, so it dismissed Odio's story.

    6. The commission never even mentioned that in the Zapruder film Kennedy's head and upper body snap violently backward and to the left when the fatal head shot occurs. In fact, when the commission printed the frames from the film, it reversed two key frames of the head shot sequence. When this fact was made public, the changing of the order of the frames was blamed on a "printing error."

    CONTINUED...

    http://michaelgriffith1.tripod.com/failed.htm



BTW: I'd rather be called all the names in the world by you than give in to the lie that is the Warren Commission report. How you can swallow that swill speaks volumes about you.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #126
129. "I'd rather be called all the names in the world by you than give in to the lie that is the....
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 07:05 PM by SDuderstadt
Warren Commission report"

You just did it again, dude. Please point to anywhere that I called you a name. For that matter, point to anywhere that I "put words in your mouth".

Your citing of Griffin as some sort of source for anything is nothing short of laughable. Why is it when CT types get called on their goofy bullshit, they think piling on more goofy CT bullshit gets them out of a jam.

It's still quite obvious you've never read the WCR, dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-10 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #129
191. I read the Warren Commission Report. FBI agent Hosty destroying Oswald's note is nowhere in it.
The FBI destroyed evidence -- obstructed justice -- when Special Agent James P. Hosty destroyed a note wriiten by Lee Harvey Oswald and left at the Dallas FBI office 13 days before the assassination of President Kennedy. A secretary who received the note from Oswald read it and told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that it contained a threat to blow up the FBI in Dallas. In her words, Oswald's "letter" read: ("I will either blow up the Dallas Police Department and the FBI office."). Hosty said its contents were of a "non-violent" nature, directed toward him because he had interviewed Marina Oswald when Lee Harvey Oswasld wasn't home.

The FBI destroying this note is just one of many examples of important information that the FBI excluded from reporting to the Warren Commission. Other government agencies also witheld important information from the Warren Commission, including the Secret Service and FBI.

What sets you and me apart, sduderstadt: You think there's an honest explanation for the Hosty affair and believe that the government has reported the truth about President Kennedy's assassination. I say people in the government have lied and continue to cover-up the circumstances of President Kennedy's assassination.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-10 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. You should stop telling me...
Edited on Sun Sep-12-10 11:41 PM by SDuderstadt
what I think, dude.

It's only been 47 years. Depending on how old you are, who knows how many more years you have to waste on this, dude. Your false nobility is entertaining.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-10 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #192
194. I answered your false allegation, sduderstadt. Sorry if spending time on the JFK case bothers you.
You shouldn't spend so much time trying to crap on my thread.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-10 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #194
198. I see...
your lack of results should be above criticism?

Seriously, dude, what is your excuse for nearly fifty years of coming up empty-banded? Why can't you guys converge hoon a person or group of people and show they did it and how? Aren't you embarrassed by now? Maybe you should let professionals take over and save yourself further embarrassment.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-10 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #198
202. Pardon the intrusion
I must ask how ones proves anything in a conspiracy that is/was successful?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-10 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #198
203. You're kidding...
right?
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-10 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #191
193. James W. Sibert
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-10 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #193
195. Gerald Ford did do something worse than pardon Nixon.
Thank you, k-robjoe! That interview with FBI agent Sibert is most telling.

Here are a few articles that detail how then-Congressman and Warren Commission member Gerald R. Ford personally manipulated the report to reflect the lone-nut theory:

Gerald Ford: Warren Commission skeptics "no problem"

Interestingly, Ford also had his doubts about the magic bullet hogwash. Ford, IMO, was himself manipulated by the "patriots" who fed him the line about war with the Soviets should the nation learn of Oswald's faked ties to the KGB. When he himself became the first unelected president, Ford certainly was manipulated by the princes of power who continue to roam the corridors of power in Washington, no matter who's president.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-10 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #195
199. Too bad science was not as far along back then...
Edited on Mon Sep-13-10 08:23 AM by SDuderstadt
or Ford could have turned to Dale Myers.

Ford didn't "manipulate" anything. On the other hand, the JFK assassination CT "community" has engaged in plenty of manipulation.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #195
200. "Oswald, the CIA and Mexico City -- What's Up with the Fake Oswald?"
You linked to a post from back in 2008, about the imposter in Mexico City.

You got no reply back then. I posted something about it on this thread, and got no reply.

Did you ever get a reply about this?

( Short clip from History Channel about this : http://www.youtube.com/user/jfk63conspiracy#p/u/0/99GlJ... )

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-10 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #200
201. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #195
204. Sibert again
Edited on Thu Sep-16-10 05:48 PM by k-robjoe
I didnt make the connection before, that Sibert was actually present during the autopsy at Bethesda.

Heres an interesting quote about that :

"Law: I was going to ask you to tell me your thoughts on Mr. Specter and the single-bullet theory.

Sibert: Well I - that single-bullet theory - when they had me come up to the ARRB deposition there at College Park, I said, "Well before I come up there, I want you to know one thing. I'm not an advocate of the single-bullet theory." I said, "I don't believe it because I stood there two foot from where that bullet wound was in the back, the one that they eventually moved up to the base of the neck. I was there when Boswell made his face sheet and located that wound exactly as we described it in the FD 302." And I said, "Furthermore, when they examined the clothing after it got into the Bureau, those bullet holes in the shirt and the coat were down 5 inches there. So there is no way that bullet could have gone that low then rise up and come out the front of the neck, zigzag and hit Connally and then end up pristine on a stretcher over there in Dallas."

Law: You don't believe in the single-bullet theory. Period.

Sibert: There is no way I will swallow that. They can't put enough sugar on it for me to bite it. That bullet was too low in the back.

(...)

O'Neill and Sibert are adamant that the single-bullet theory is wrong. "That's Arlen Specter's theory," O'Neill told me.

It's quite evident from my conversations with them that they have no respect for the one-time assistant counsel to the Warren Commission, now Senator from Pennsylvania. When I questioned Jim Sibert about the single-bullet theory and Arlen Specter, he went as far as to say, "What a liar. I feel he got his orders from above - how far above I don't know." "

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKsibertW.htm

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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-10 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #195
205. Frank O'Neill
Heres a clip with the other FBI agent that was present during the autopsy :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzhKy-O4T4&feature=rela...

"FBI agent Frank O'Neill, who was one of two agents present during the JFK autopsy, says in this 2006 interview with Fox News, that Dr. James Humes TWICE tried to trace the track of the bullet that entered Kennedy's back and both times there was "no exit" to be found."

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Mefistofeles Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #205
322. Great video. No exit=no single bullet
Don't expect WC defenders to say anything about O'neill's words.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-10 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #195
206. "missile removed"
I never heard about this before. A bullet being removed from Kennedys body during the autopsy :

"RECOVERED BULLET DURING JFK AUTOPSY.

Although there is a great deal of evidence that a bullet was recovered from President Kennedy's body at the time of the autopsy, none of the evidence of this bullet was ever mentioned in the public hearings.

To recap, Warren Commission document No. 371 reveals "one receipt from the FBI for a missile removed during the examination of the body." An examination of the receipt shows that a bullet was removed from the body of President Kennedy during the autopsy in the evening of November 22, 1963. This bullet was handed over to and signed for by FBI agents Francis X. O'Neill and James W. Sibert.

The January 4, 1964, issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (vol. 187 No. 1) stated on page 15 that the bullet was recovered during the autopsy.

The Washington Post of December 18, 1963, after checking the report with the FBI before publication, stated that a bullet was recovered from deep within the President's shoulder. This was again confirmed in the Post on May 29, 1966."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/infojfk/jfk6/grodn.htm


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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-10 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #206
207. Wait a minute...
This is Groden's testimony being presented as fact. Where's the corroboration?
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #207
208. Quick search
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-10 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #208
209. Which says nothing about...
JFK's left shoulder.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-10 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #209
210. No, thats true
It was The Washington Post, according to Groden, that wrote it was removed from Kennedys shoulder.

( It doesnt say *left* shoulder. Maybe you meant to say *right* shoulder? )

I dont know if this was an assumption.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-10 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #191
380. Dude...
Again, do you understand the difference between inculpatory and exculpatory evidence? Do you think Oswald's note to Hosty, as testified to by the secretary inculpates or exculpates Oswald? Why would Hosty "obstruct justice" to help Oswald?

No one is arguing that Hosty should have destroyed the note, dude. But, as usual, your evidence just does not support your goofy claims.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #102
107. Here's another one...
dude.

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.p...

You just make shit up. It's embarrassing.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #107
112. What's embarrassing is how you treat other people.
Hoover did lie his eyes out. Get made at him, not me.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #28
61. That would be a hilarious satire
:thumbsup:

Great idea!

The premise being that there were 4 shooters and/or shoot teams, but none knew about the others, or even that there were other plots being hatched. The Warren Commission and the government of course find this out in short order, but it is so ridiculous and implausible that they cover it up, at least in part because that means that four separate plots all succeeded! Needless to say, the final irony is that the cover-up has precisely the effect that the government wanted to avoid by not telling the truth: it heightens distrust of government to the point where you can't accomplish anything anymore. The key scene in the movie is some bureaucrat at the center of the cover-up speculating on "what things will be like in 50 years if nobody trusts the government." It becomes a classic soliloquy in film history.

;-)
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
38. Joseph A. Milteer pretty much outlined the ''official version of Dallas'' before it happened.
Milteer didn't know he was being taped. Here's a fellow agent Adams identified as Milteer in Dealey Plaza during the motorcade:





Here's what Milteer said in Miami, a few weeks before Dallas:



Transcript of Milteer-Somersett Tape

Note: This is a transcript of a tape recorded on 9 Nov 1963 by Miami Police informant William Somersett, recording a conversion with right-wing extremist Joseph Milteer. The transcript is taken from Harold Weisberg's essay The Milteer Documents...

EXCERPT...

SOMERSETT: I don't know, I think Kennedy is coming here on the 18th, or something like that to make some kind of speech, I don't know what it is, but I imagine it will be on the TV, and you can be on the look for that, I think it is the 18th that he is suppose to be here. I don't know what it is suppose to be about.

MILTEER: You can bet your bottom dollar he is going to have a lot to say about the Cubans, there are so many of them here.

SOMERSETT: Yeah, well he will have a thousand bodyguards, don't worry about that.

MILTEER: The more bodyguards he has, the easier it is to get him.

SOMERSETT: What?

MILTEER: The more bodyguards he has the more easier it is to get him.

SOMERSETT: Well how in the hell do you figure would be the best way to get him?

MILTEER: From an office building with a high-powered rifle, how many people does he have going around who look just like him? Do you know about that?

SOMERSETT: No, I never heard that he had anybody.

MILTEER: He has got them.

SOMERSETT: He has?

MILTEER: He has about fifteen. Whenever he goes any place they he knows he is a marked man.

SOMERSETT: You think he knows he is a marked man?

MILTEER: Sure he does.

SOMERSETT: They are really going to try to kill him?

MILTEER: Oh, yeah, it is in the working, Brown himself, Brown is just as likely to get him as anybody. He hasn't said so, but he tried to get Martin Luther King.

SOMERSETT: He did.

MILTEER: Oh yes, he followed him for miles and miles, and couldn't get close enough to him.

SOMERSETT: You know exactly where he is in Atlanta don't you.

MILTEER: Martin Luther King, yeah.

SOMERSETT: Bustus Street .

MILTEER: Yeah 530.

SOMERSETT: Oh Brown tried to get him huh?

MILTEER: Yeah.

SOMERSETT: Well, he will damn sure do it, I will tell you that. Well, that is why, look, you see, well, that is why we have to be so careful, you know that Brown is operating strong.

MILTEER: He ain't going to play you know.

SOMERSETT: That is right.

MILTEER: He is going for broke.

SOMERSETT: I never asked Brown about his business or anything, you know just what he told me, told us, you know. But after the conversation, and the way he talked to us, there is no question in my mind about who knocked the church off in Birmingham, you can believe that, that is the way I figured it.

MILTEER: That is right, it is about the ony way you can figure it.

SOMERSETT: That is right.

MILTEER: Not being there, not knowing anything.

SOMERSETT: But just from his conversation, as you and me know him, but if they did, it is their business, like you say .

MILTEER: It is up to the individual.

SOMERSETT: That is right. They are individual operators, we don't want that within the party. Hitting this Kennedy is going to be a hard proposition, I tell you, I believe, you may have figured out a way to get him, you may have figured out the office building, and all that. I don't know how them Secret Service agents cover all them office buildings, or anywhere he is going, do you know whether they do that or not?

MILTEER: Well, if they have any suspicion they do that of course. But without suspicion chances are that they wouldn't. You take there in Washington, of course it is the wrong time of the year, but you take pleasant weather, he comes out on the veranda, and somebody could be in a hotel room across the way there, and pick him off just like .

SOMERSETT: Is that right?

MILTEER: Sure, disassemble a gun, you don't have to take a gun up there, you can take it up in pieces, all those guns come knock down, you can take them apart.

CONTINUED...

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Transcript_of ...



Leaders in the Secret Service and FBI, knowing the above, were more than criminally negligent in protecting the President in Dallas.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. How many times are you going to post this...
Dude?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. What's wrong with it? It's the truth: Milteer talked about killing JFK 13 days before Dallas.
Don't take my word for it. Here's what University of Georgia law professor Donald E. Wilkes, Jr., had to say about Joseph A. Milteer:



DID HE KNOW JFK TO DIE?

Published in The Athens Observer, p. 2A (February 12,1987).
Author: Donald E. Wilkes, Jr., Professor of Law, University of Georgia School of Law.

EXCERPT...

On the morning of Nov. 9, 1963, two weeks before the Kennedy assassination, Milteer engaged in a conversation in a Miami hotel room with a man named Willie Somersett. Apparently unknown to Milteer, Somersett (who died in 1970), was an informer for the police who surreptitiously tape-recorded the conversation. The tape was promptly turned over to local Miami police, who then forwarded it to federal authorities. The taped conversation was revealed for the first time publicly in the Miami News in February 1967, although Milteer's named was not mentioned. The Miami News article was quoted at length (again without mentioning Milteer's name) in Harold Weisberg's Oswald in New Orleans, also published in 1967. In 1971 in Frame-Up Weisberg published a transcript of the taped conversation, together with various FBI documents relating to Milteer. This time Milteer's name was given. In 1979 the House Assassinations Committee included information on Milteer in several of its published volumes, and quoted verbatim an excerpt from the transcript of his Nov. 9, 1963 conversation with Somersett.

According to the House Committee transcript, Milteer told Somersett that the killing of Kennedy "was in the working," that the president could be killed "rom an office building with a high-powered rifle," that the rifle could be "disassembled" to get it into the building, and that "hey will pick up somebody within hours afterward, if anything like that would happen just to throw the public off." He also mentioned "the Cubans."

When Miami police turned the tape-recorded conversation over to the Secret Service and FBI, there was a flurry of activity and extra security precautions were taken to protect the president on his trip to Miami, which took place on Nov. 18, the Monday before the Friday assassination. However, information about the Milteer remarks apparently was not passed on to Secret Service officials responsible for the trip to Dallas.

Here, then, is a second possible Georgia connection to the JFK assassination: less than two weeks before the president's death, a Georgia political extremist on the far right was recorded saying things that indicate--at least in retrospect--that he knew not only of a plot to kill the president but also some of the details of the plot. Milteer's statements, as noted, were taken seriously by federal authorities; and the Secret Service's Miami office filed on Milteer was entitled "Alleged Possible Threat Against the President."

However, the recorded conversation of Nov. 9, 1963 is not the only evidence of the possibility of a Georgia connection through Joseph Milteer to the JFK killing. According to FBI documents published by Harold Weisberg, Milteer told an informer (presumably Somersett) in an unrecorded conversation in Jacksonville, Fla., on the afternoon of the assassination: "Everything ran true to form. I guess you thought I was kidding you when I said he (Kennedy) would be killed from a window with a high-powered rifle."

CONTINUED...

http://www.law.uga.edu/academics/profiles/dwilkes_more/...



Professor Wilkes also wrote about the Altgens photo, which apparently captured Milteer in Dealey Plaza:



WAS MILTEER IN DALLAS?

Published in The Athens Observer, p. 2A (February 19, 1987).
Author: Donald E. Wilkes, Jr., Professor of Law, University of Georgia School of Law.

Was Joseph A. Milteer present in or near Dealey Plaza when President Kennedy was shot? If so, this would transform suspicions that he knew in advance of plans to kill the president into suspicions that he might have been a party to the plot. Milteer's proven presence would be a fact of the gravest concern and the most sinister implication.

What evidence is there that Milteer might have been present at the assassination? First, an informer--presumably Somersett--reported that Milteer had called a friend from Dallas on the morning of the assassination. Henry Hurt tells us that in that morning telephone conversation Milteer assured his friend that Kennedy wouldn't be visiting Miami any more. The Assassinations Committee in its Final Report in 1979 said it "could find no evidence that Milteer was in Dallas on the day of the assassination." On the other hand, as Hurt observes, the Committee "also failed to show that he was elsewhere."

Second, Milteer apparently told an informer in Jacksonville, Fla., a few days after the assassination that he had been in Dallas, Ft. Worth, and Houston. While Milteer did not say when the visits had occurred, it is worth noting that these three cities were on President Kennedy's itinerary on his fatal journey to Texas.

Third, it is possible that Milteer was an individual photographed among the motorcade spectators on Houston Street immediately before the president's car turned on to Elm Street and the shooting began. The 35 mm film photograph was taken by James Altgens. The photograph depicts "an unidentified motorcade spectator who bears a strong resemblance to Joseph Adams Milteer"--to quote the words of a panel of experts retained by the Assassinations Committee. The spectator, a bespectacled while male around 60 years old, is standing with his arms folded across his front at a point just beyond and to the right of the approaching presidential limousine, in the photograph. He is among an array of spectators lining the sidewalk on the west side of Houston Street. "Immediately to his right is a taller man wearing a dark hat, coat, and necktie," to again quote the panel of experts.

SNIP...

One other matter remains to be discussed. Once the tape recording had been turned over by local police, what investigation of Milteer did federal agents undertake, both before and after the assassination? According to Secret Service documents published by Harold Weisberg in 1971, the Miami office of the Secret Service closed its file on Milteer on Nov. 12, 1963--three days after Milteer had talked to the informant and nine days before the assassination! Apparently the Secret Service's pre-assassination investigation was transferred to other offices, but there is apparently no published evidence of what investigation these other offices undertook.

CONTINUED...

http://www.law.uga.edu/academics/profiles/dwilkes_more/...



That's the truth. Sorry if you don't want me to write about it.




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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Dude...
Edited on Mon Aug-23-10 02:49 PM by SDuderstadt
Milteer was talking about JFK being assassinated in MIAMI on a totally different date and by a totally different person. Does that sound like an accurate prediction to you?
More importantly, the HSCA looked into reports that Milteer was in Dallas on 11/22 and analyzed the photo said to be of Milteer in Dealey Plaza that day and decisively concluded it was someone other than Milteer. You left that part out. I wonder why.

I already provided the link in post #31, dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Milteer also reported to the FBI informant he was in Houston, Fort Worth and Dallas.
Eh, "decisively" is your word, not the HSCA's. Groden, the chief photo interpreter, dissented, as the record shows.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Dude...
if Milteer knew anything specific, then why was he talking about Miami and someone named Brown??

As far as you trying to interject doubt into the HSCA's conclusions, please read volume 6, pgs 247-254 and note their conclusions about Milteer's hair, facial features and his height. How anyone can claim a difference in height of 6 inches is not "decisive" is beyond me.

Your sloppy research is one of the many reasons I don't take you seriously.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. ''When we die off, no one will talk about these things.''
This is BIG NEWS: Retired FBI agent Don Adams -- an eyewitness to treason -- has stepped forward and said he KNOWS the Warren Commission is a cover-up because Adams' superiors interfered with his investigation. Remarkably, his story has been consigned to the DUngeon and a paper in Ireland, among the 4 returns on GOOGLE News I found. I think the story deserves more attention.



Retired FBI Agent Says Oswald Didn't Kill Kennedy

Suzanne Stratford Fox 8 News Reporter (Akron, OH)
9:44 PM EDT, August 22, 2010

EXCERPT...

One of Adams first assignments was investigating an extreme right radical, with connections to the States Rights Party and KKK named Joseph Adams Milteer. "He was reportedly one of most violent men in the country," said Adams.

One week after completing the investigation, President Kennedy was gunned down in Dallas.

Agent Adams located Milteer in Quintan, Georgia on November 27, 1963, but according to Adams, the Senior Agent in charge would not allow a proper interrogation.

SNIP...

Adams says he is not seeking fame and fortune, rather truth and justice. He wants another commission established to re-investigate what really happened in Dallas before all of the agents and witnesses are gone.

"When we die off, no one will talk about these things." said Adams, "I hope the truth gets told whatever it is."

CONTINUED...



Sorry if my work seems sloppy to you. You should try posting some yourself and see how hard it is to do.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Dude...
Edited on Mon Aug-23-10 05:00 PM by SDuderstadt
simple question: why did Adams wait so long to come forward? Beyond that, can you corroborate his claims?

The problem is you can't even get basic facts right and you believe a "prediction" in which Milteer got the date, location and the shooter's name wrong is somehow remarkable. Oh, but he did get the "shot from a tall building with a high-powered rifle" right, like that had never, ever happened before...I guess snipers had not been created by that time.

Dude.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #51
59. They're still investigating the Lincoln assassination and gaining new insights ....
but agree that this is important --
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MarkChief Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. He didn't say Jack Brown was going to be the shooter
Edited on Mon Aug-23-10 06:13 PM by MarkChief
He mentioned Brown as a possibility. He said Brown was "as likely" as someone else to do it.

And let's not forget that if there was a conspiracy, we don't know if Brown did it or not. The major conspiracy theorists (Bugliosi, Horne, etc.) do not speculate on who the shooters were.

Milteer said Oswald would be a patsy.

And the both pro-conspiracy and pro-official often believe the HSCA on the parts that suit them, and disbelieve HSCA in the parts they dislike.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. This post is so dumb...
it doesn't require much of a response.

The major conspiracy theorists (Bugliosi, Horne, etc.) do not speculate on who the shooters were.


Really? I suspect Bugliosi would disagree since he wrote a 1600 page book (exclusive of endnotes) throwing the book at Oswald, dude.

Stupid post.
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MarkChief Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. I talk about jack brown and you reply that Bugliosi wrote a huge book
Edited on Mon Aug-23-10 09:52 PM by MarkChief
I fact-checked you about what Milteer said about Brown. don't get me wrong, discussing the many bad reviews of Bugliosi's huge book would be worthwile in another thread, but you went off-topic here.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Dude...
Edited on Mon Aug-23-10 10:17 PM by SDuderstadt
we've been through this before and you're dead wrong about Bugliosi.

What I actually said was, "Dude...if Milteer knew anything specific, then why was he talking about Miami and someone named Brown??". Show me where I said Milteer said Brown was the shooter. I'm not going to play your stupid strawman games again.



Don't expect any further responses from me to your new alias, dude.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. I wonder what screenname....
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 12:04 AM by SDuderstadt
MarkChief will use in his next incarnation. He's already blown through stevedesmond,midwestnerman,30rock and several others I don't even recall.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #44
60. Please prove that...
dude.
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gazeteere Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. The Truth about the ssassination of JFK is clear and obvious.
All you have to do is read this and work backwards, and you will know everything there is to know.


Needless to say, watergate was about serial murder, it was not about a third rate burglary.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Yeah...
when I want to determine who actually killed JFK, I always start with John Lennon.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. When people lace their posts with words like...
"clear and obvious" it's "clear and obvious" you're about to get pelted with goofy conpiracy theory bullshit.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #60
69. It's what Somersett reported Milteer saying the day after the assassination.
So far as we know, Somersett is reliable. Here's a link. And, for those interested in learning more about Milteer, a bonus link. Dude.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. Corroborated by what, exactly...
dude?

Do you understand how real investigations work?

I'm also looking for proof of Groden's "dissent", especially after you conflated his role to the HSCA. He was a mere "consultant" to the HSCA, despite his lack of formal training in photography. He was not the chief analyst, dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Did you read the article? FBI agent Adams said his boss only allowed him '5 questions' to Milteer.
From the OP:



Retired FBI Agent Says Oswald Didn't Kill Kennedy

Suzanne Stratford Fox 8 News Reporter
9:44 PM EDT, August 22, 2010

EXCERPT...

Agent Adams located Milteer in Quintan, Georgia on November 27, 1963, but according to Adams, the Senior Agent in charge would not allow a proper interrogation.

"I said, 'Boss wait a minute, we have an opportunity to elicit tremendous information from him' and he replied '5 questions and nothing more'."

Years later, while searching the archives Adams learned that Milteer had threatened to kill President Kennedy November 9, 1963, just weeks before the assassination, and that FBI agents had allegedly lied about his whereabouts immediately following threat.

In a tape recording Adams played for Fox 8 News, Milteer tells an informant the best way to get the president, "is from an office building with a high powered rifle."

The informant asks if they are really going to kill President Kennedy and on the tape recording Milteer responds, "Oh yes. It's in the works."

CONTINUED...

http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-news-don-adams-president-k...




Wouldn't a failure to investigate -- on the part of the FBI -- amount to "obstruction of justice"?

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Dude...do you understand what the term "corroboration" actually means?
You have a single source claim. That single source cannot corroborate himself. Duh.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #74
80. That's why Somersett made the tape when Milteer outlined the assassination.
That's corroboration.

The point is, FBI Agent Adams wanted to continue his investigation of Milteer, but was directly impeded by his superior. That's obstruction of justice by the Department of Justice in the investigation of the assassination of President Kennedy. Adams also reports that articles from his investigation are missing and other items have been altered. That makes it hard to get corroboration on every point you raise.

I wish the FBI had continued their investigation. Dude.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Dude...
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 10:30 PM by SDuderstadt
This is why I find your "research" so laughable. I'm not asking for corroboration that is what Milteer stated. I am asking for corroboration that he was actually in those cities when he claimed.

It's your inability to follow simple points that makes me discount nearly everything you say. You'd make a terrible detective. I know that is going to rankle your little groupies, dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Laugh all you want. There's nothing funny about the assassination of President Kennedy.
As for my "research":

I report what I've found and make clear my sources.
I ask questions about what it means and make clear my opinions.
I don't pretend to know everything and I ask others for their input.
I thank people who correct me when I'm in error.
And I don't tell people who don't agree with me to "shut up."

Can you, sduderstadt, say the same?
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Yeahyeah Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. .
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 10:58 PM by Yeahyeah
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Dude...
You can't even be honest about this. I said your "research" is laughable. I have never, ever said that JFK's assassination was something to laugh about, even though you try to create that impression.

You also try to create the impression that I have told "people who don't agree with me to 'shut up'.".

BTW, I'm not the one who claims anyone who rejects JFK assassination conspiracy theories cannot "be a Democrat". Are you really claiming EMK could not have been a Dem? That's how silly your "argument" is getting.

And, yes, dude...I can "say the same". If you feel otherwise, all you have to do is provide documentation of it. I know that you can't.
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Yeahyeah Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. What is your actual height,dude?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. 9' 11"
Stupid question.
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Yeahyeah Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. That's a pretty solid number.Are you sure you don't stretch and shrink periodically?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. I used to be 10' 5"
and it's still a stupid question. Are you trying to make a point here?
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
90. Second "single bullet"
Edited on Wed Aug-25-10 04:06 AM by k-robjoe
Never heard about this before. Apparently a second "single bullet" was found. And Connally wrote about it in his auto-biography.

Also interesting how the people who handled the first "single bullet", later would not identify the bullet presented as evidence as the bullet they handled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKwqhf0MYio

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #90
91. Why, it MUST be true!
Edited on Wed Aug-25-10 09:55 AM by SDuderstadt
It has a YouTube video and everything!

Simple and serious question: Do you ever get tired of being taken advantage of?

Did you bother to fact-check this video? I'm betting that you didn't.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #91
92. Starting up with the quote
from Connallys auto-biography. Is it fabricated? Do you know?

And the quotation of Henry Wade, being interviewed by the Dallas Morning News. Is it fabricated?

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #92
93. I'm certain neither are "fabricated"....
Edited on Wed Aug-25-10 11:40 AM by SDuderstadt
however, Connally had just been gravely injured, so it's probable his recollection might not be 100% accurate. Similarly, the interview with Wade took place 30 years after the event.

All large-scale, catastrophic events, by definition, involve anomalies, conflicting accounts and unanswered questions. That's why you look for whats called "convergence of evidence". The problem with conspiracists (not necessarily you) is that they form their conclusions first, then assume that every anomaly, unanswered question or conflicting account "proves" their conspiracy theory. Think about this for a second. Assemble all the alternate accounts and theories of that day. Why don't they all agree? Hint: for the reasons I cited above. There are far more unanswered questions, conflicting accounts and anomalies in these instances. That's why I have such disdain for conspiracists.

And, no, I am not saying there is no such thing as an actual conspiracy.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Guess "fabricated" wasnt the right word
But anyway, I dont believe they are "fabricated" either. Neither does it seem to be a fabrication, the part about the people who handled the bullet that Tomlinson found not being willing to identify the bullet being used as evidence, as the bullet they handled...

Nor the part about Tomlinson telling the Warren commission that the strecther that the bullet fell off was not the same stretcher that had been used for Connally.

And maybe this is also correct :

"The Warren Commission's "single bullet," according to all documentation:

there were no thread striations (fine lines etched onto a copper encased bullet tip and/or bullet side casing by clothing threads when the bullet first penetrates clothing threads),

there was no blood,

there was no human matter,

there were no pieces of clothing found on this bullet (...)"

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Single_bullet_theory

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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
103. I don't need an FBI agent to convince me...


First assure you haven't had a lobotomy while laughing your ass off of the Warren Commission's fictional description of CE399...

The bullet then allegedly struck and shattered the radius of the right wrist on the dorsal side, then exited at the base of his palm and hit his left thigh just about the knee. The Report then asserts that CE 399 traveled about three inches beneath the surface of the skin, hit the femur and deposited a lead fragment on the bone. Then, sometime later, with a spasm of reverse kinetic energy it spontaneously exited the hole in Connally's thigh and neatly tucked itself under the mattress of a stretcher parked in a hallway of the Parkland Memorial Hospital


The single bullet theory was created by Warren Commission attorney Alen Specter to account for the three shots admitted to by the Commission and the seven wounds to President Kennedy and Govenor Connally. Several Commissioners went on record that they didn't believe in the SBT but evidently didn't understand its importance to the Lone Nut conclusion.
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #103
108. Baloney
> The single bullet theory was created by Warren Commission attorney Alen Specter to account for the three shots admitted to by the Commission and the seven wounds to President Kennedy and Govenor Connally.

No, the initial assumption was that two of Oswald's shots hit JFK and one hit Connally. The corollary of the SBT is that one shot missed completely. The strongest evidence that the single-bullet theory is correct is that the bullet that went through JFK's neck would have had to hit somewhere inside the car, but no bullet holes were found. Except the one in Connally, that is, who was sitting right in the path of that trajectory, quite unlike the dishonest diagrams such as the one Stone used in his movie.

> Several Commissioners went on record that they didn't believe in the SBT but evidently didn't understand its importance to the Lone Nut conclusion.

That could be because it isn't, since Oswald did indeed fire three shots. The case that conspircists try to make is that the Zapruder film "proves" that JFK and Connally were hit at different times, but too close together for both shots to have been fired by Oswald. No such "proof" can be obtained by making guesses about when either man "appears" to react in that indistinct film.
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #103
120. CE399: The Hoax of the Century

Very well put MrMickeysMom.

As Jim DiEugenio and Len Osanic discussed last night...

http://www.blackopradio.com/pod/black489a.mp3

The only logical debate left about the "Magic Bullet" is between whether it was shot into a bucket of water or cotton batting??? Before being placed on the gurney.


http://www.ctka.net/
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #120
130. Those are 2 good links to put some objectivity behind the hoax
Plus, I love the "ignore" button, so whoever said whatever, I probably don't give a shit about what they have to say anyway.

DiEugenio has a goofy laugh, but the books he's reviewed over the years, plus Len's will be linked. Anyone who wants to refer to the most comprehensive stuff to read and educate themselves will have many, many choices.

:-)
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #130
131. LOL, of course you love the "ignore" button
How many people do you think haven't figured out why that is?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #103
188. FBI Special Agent James HOSTY destroyed evidence: a ''threatening'' note from Oswald.
A couple of weeks before the assassination, Hosty paid a visit to Marina Oswald's residence at the home of Ruth Paine. Hosty was looking for Lee Harvey Oswald, who was not home. Oswald later found out about the visit and stopped by the Dallas FBI office and dropped off a note addressed to Hosty that threatened to "blow up the FBI building" in the words of the secretary who received the note in an unsealed envelope and read it.

Hosty and the FBI never admitted the note's existence until 1975 when the HSCA looked investigated the matter. Hosty said the note was not a threat and, therefore, not material to the case. Investigators believe Dallas SAC Gordon Shanklin ordered the note destroyed on direct orders from FBI Director J Edgar Hoover, a couple of hours after Oswald's own assassination while in police custody.

The note was never mentioned to the Warren Commission.

Destroying evidence is obstruction of justice.

PS: Isn't it odd how many people do all they can to disparage those interested in the truth, MrMickeysMom?
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #188
189. "The trial of Lee Harvey Oswald"
Funny you should mention this. I came across the 1977 TV-series "The trial of Lee Harvey Oswald", and 6 minutes out in this clip theres a scene about something I hadnt heard about before :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnfaBSB9nEY&feature=rela...

Now your post gives me more information.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #189
396. Oswald had Hosty's telephone number in his pocket when arrested.
Of course, J Edgar Hoover also falied to report that information to the Warren Commission.

What's also telling is how Hosty made a 180 -- first saying Oswald was not a violent person nor a communist to stating the FBI had the guy pegged as a commie capable of murder.



James P. Hosty

EXCERPT...

About two weeks before the assassination, Oswald delivered a note to Dallas FBI office at 1114 Commerce Street and left it for the receptionist to give to Hosty when he got back from lunch, which she did. Apparently Hosty told the head of the Dallas office of the FBI, J Gordon Shanklin, about the note on the afternoon that JFK was assassinated. The FBI said in October 1975, when the existence of the note came to light that the note read "Let this be a warning. I will blow up the FBI and the Dallas Police if you don't stop bothering my wife." According to Hosty, the note said something like "if you have anything you want to learn about me, come talk to me directly. If you don't cease bothering my wife, I will take the appropriate action and report this to the proper authorities." Shanklin instructed Hosty to destroy the note about two hours after Oswald had been shot by Jack Ruby, saying as he handed the note to Hosty, "Oswald is dead now. There can be no trial. Here, get rid of this". Hosty destroyed the note by tearing it up and flushing it down a toilet.

According to a "Harry Dean", a former agent of both the FBI and the CIA, the note was a message from Oswald about the assassination plans. Shanklin has denied all knowledge of the note, despite confirmation from other office members that he had actually handled it. Hosty has suggested that the order to destroy the note came from FBI headquarters. In 1978 he said of the Congress Assassinations Committee, "I am the one they are afraid is going to drop bombs - if they are going to try to contain this like the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Warren Commission, they don't want me there."

Hosty said he had received no official notification of the motorcade route, but learned about it from a newspaper on the evening of November 21st. He had known Oswald was employed at the Texas School Book Depository since November 4th 1963, but didn't feel that Oswalds employment there was significant. According to author Jim Bishop, Hosty's opinion was that "Oswald was not a violent person; he was never seen with firearms; never walked a picket line; never wrote hate letters to newspapers; he never even went to a motion picture: he represented no physical danger to anyone."

On November 22nd, Hosty saw JFK from the kerb at 12:24, then went into the Alamo Grill for lunch, where a waitress whispered to him that shots had been fired from the School Book Depository. He hurried back to his office but was ordered out again and told to go to Parkland Hospital. As he arrived there, he was ordered to return to the office immediately and go over the Dallas files to see if he could find any leads. It seems that Oswald still did not come to his mind as a possible suspect. When Oswald was arrested at 1:50, he had a piece of paper in his pocket with Hosty's telephone number on it, but this information was omitted from the FBI's report to the Commission.

Hosty's immediate report to Shanklin when they heard that Oswald had been arrested for killing JD Tippit, was that Oswald could not be regarded as a potential cop killer and that he wasn't even a member of the local Communist Party. He knew this because the FBI had an informant in the Party.

At 2:30, the interrogation of Oswald began in Room 317 of Dallas Police Department in the presence of Hosty and Forrest V. Sorrels of the Secret Service. Apparently Oswald seemed relaxed until Hosty entered, when he became uncomfortable. At 2:50, according to a sworn statement, Jack Revill, a lieutenant in the Criminal Investigation Section of the Special Service Bureau, met Hosty in the basement of the City Hall. He was told by Hosty that Oswald was a member of the Communist Party and that the FBI had information that he "was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy."

SOURCE:

http://www.cdo.co.uk/jfk/wiki/index.php?title=James_Hos...



The conspirators really went out of their way in the minutes and hours after the assassination to paint a case for war with Cuba and the USSR.
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Nathan_Hale Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
109. Well of course.....
Oswald didn't kill Kennedy. What idiot, after planning and succeeding at such a horrendous crime, would stand up on TV and then claim to be a patsy and not take credit for the kill?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #109
110. Someone who thought he...
wouldn't get caught. Duh.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
111. "The case for conspiracy"
Its been a couple of years since I first got interested in the JFK assassination.

So I never saw this video online until now.

"The case for conspiracy"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=844030292520648...

The part with all the doctors telling about the headwound is the most extensive Ive seen. Starting 50 minutes out.

( Theres also a part 2, which I havent seen yet :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-75347460518699... )

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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #111
121. Part 2
Im watching part 2 right now. And at 25 minutes out, theres a videoclip where you see what looks very much like a man in the window that Oswald is supposed to have shot from, just as the limousine passes on the street below.

Problem is, the man is standing. It just doesnt make sense that Oswald would be standing up straight at that point. Then he would have to be fast as lightning to get into a shooting position by the time of the shots.

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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #111
139. Charles Crenshaw
53 minutes out in this video, Dr. Charles Crenshaw tells the same story as the others about the headwound. ( And he also tells about the wound in the throat being a wound of entrance. )

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-22386500082847...

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #139
399. Robert Nelson McClelland


The Day Kennedy Died

BLOOD TIES: Dr. McClelland cleaned the suit he wore when he helped try to revive JFK, but the blood-stained shirt he left unwashed.


In crumpled white coats filled with folded papers and stethoscopes and the various tools of the third-year medical student, they file into a cramped office. The walls are lined with books. Andrew Jennings and Jeff Konnert sit at opposite ends of the leather couch while Scott Paulson takes the leather chair. They face a 79-year-old man in a crisp, bright white jacket. Dr. Robert Nelson McClelland, not a large man, has thick glasses and tufts of white hair that match his coat.

This is the students second meeting with the old doctor. He offers them soda and coffee. They are scheduled to talk about pancreatic surgery. Instead they will receive a lesson in living history. When they leave, one student will refer to this hour as the most fascinating conversation of his life.

As they get settled, ready to hear about surgical manipulation of the biliary tract, Jennings notices a magazine on the coffee table. From the cover, it appears the entire magazine is dedicated to conspiracy theories revolving around the John F. Kennedy assassination. Six floors and 44 years separate the place where they are sitting from that moment in November 1963 when the president of the United States was carted into the emergency room in a condition witnesses would later describe as moribund.

Andrew points to the magazine. Were you here when they brought him in? Yeah, I helped put in the trache, McClelland says matter-of-factly. The students gasp, as if the old East Texas doctor had put an ice-cold stethoscope to their chests. With no hesitation, McClelland continues, So youre here to talk about the pancreas

Whoa! Whoa! one of the three students interrupts.

Is there any way you could tell us what happened? asks another.

We can read a book about pancreatic surgery, but this

Well, I feel like a broken record, McClelland says. Ive probably told this story 8,000 times.

They plead with him.

He leans back in his chair, behind a desk covered with stacks of paper. He nods slowly. His eyes close for a moment as he transports himself back to that fall afternoon, just two days after his 34th birthday. The day that JFK died.

It was a little after noontime, he tells them. Everyone knew the president was in town that day. McClelland was in a second-floor conference room at Parkland Memorial Hospital, showing a film of an operation for a hiatal hernia to some of the residents and students.

He begins the narrative hes told so many times. I heard a little knock on the door, McClelland says. At the door was Dr. Charles Crenshaw. He asked McClelland to step into the hall for a moment. When he returned, McClelland turned off the projector and left the students. The two doctors moved immediately to the elevator.

Great DU thread on the subject
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
119. Sliding across the trunk of the limousine
I came across this video clip that I found interesting. Three minutes out, you can see an object sliding across the trunk of the limousine.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=908394613389939...

Then I saw the videoclip recorded from the opposite angle, and I realized that the object must be a scarf or something. Maybe a glove.

So I didnt give it any more thought.

But then today I watched this video :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-75347460518699...

And 16:28 out in this video you can see that the ( "big" white ) object must indeed be a scarf or glove or something, but you can also see two or three smaller "objects" that slide down the trunk of the car before the scarf/glove. And its these two or three "objects", that make Jaqueline get up to crawl out on the trunk of the car. ( And when she does, the scarf/glove slides out onto the trunk. )

Do you guys see the same thing?

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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #119
420. It's a reflection. If you map the speed of the car to the movement of the object it appears to....
...match exactly. It also has no Z-depth, but follows the contour of the car and stretching out impossibly long for any of those things.

Not a bad catch but a red herring it would seem.

PB
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
133. Helmer Reenberg
The work of Helmer Reenberg ( Denmark ) is simply great.

His site is :

http://www.youtube.com/user/HelmerReenberg

If you scroll down in the upper right corner, youll find the part about the assassination. 27 video clips. I have watched the first four of them. Great work.

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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #133
135. The railroadworkers on the tripple overpass
The eight clip ( The railroadworkers on the tripple overpass ) is further evidence. Backing up what all the doctors say. When you think youve seen it all, you realize... theres more.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #135
136. Dude...
do yourself a favor. Read Bugliosi's book, rather than immerse yourself in CT bullshit and you'll realize how hopelessly confused and disjointed the "Oswald was just a palsy" narratives truly are.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #136
137. Bugliosi
Ill have to read his book. But off course Bugliosi cant tell the witnesses who were there, what they saw ( or heard ).

And he cant tell the doctors what they saw.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #137
138. Read the book and...
you'll see that CT websites dishonestly omit information and facts that disprove their claims. It's a classic case of confirmation bias, cherry-picking and stacking the deck all rolled into one.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #138
140. I get your point
But I still say he cant tell the doctors what they saw.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #140
141. Yeah, but you're ignoring what other doctors saw...
that's why you should rely on "convergence of evidence". I bet you could take nearly any criminal case in which there is literally an open and shut case and find plenty of conflicting accounts. That's why we have detectives, evidence labs and trials.

Seriously, you are mystifying this case. Read Bugliosi's book and I'd be willing to bet you'd come away convinced of Oswald's guilt. About the only remaining question would be whether anyone else (non-shooter) might possibly have been involved, but the evidence shows that to be highly unlikely.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #141
142. Bugliosi
Ill have to order it from the library, to see what the other doctors said.

Unless theres something about it online. Any doctor at Parkland who saw that the throatwound was a wound of exit, or described the headwounds differently than the doctors in the video clips I have linked to, would be interesting to read about.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #142
143. If you believe that the wound in JFK's throat was anything...
other than an exit wound, you're going to have to explain where the bullet went.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #143
145. Bullet
I see your point. That is of course a problem. It would have to be a bullet that didnt pass through the body. Same thing with the bullet that hit the back.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #145
146. But, we know from the x-rays that...
no bullet remained in his body.

CONVERGENCE OF EVIDENCE.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #146
147. Bullets
I have seen it suggested that it would be possible to shoot out "ice-missiles", that would melt, and leave no bullet.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #147
148. You do realize that both JFK and Connally...
had bullet fragments in their bodies, right?

Anything is possible when you don't know what you're talking about.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #148
149. Headwound
JFK had bullet fragments from the bullet(s) to the head.

Did he have bullet fragments in the torso? From a bullet that didnt even have the marks on it that you would find on any bullet that had passed through clothing?

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #149
150. This is getting absolutely silly...
this is what I call having a "oh, yeah? Well, what about THIS?" "debate" with someone who doesn't understand Occam's Razor.

I'll end my part by encouraging you to read Bugliosi's book, but I rather doubt you will.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #150
151. Silly
I have this problem all the time with the JFK-assassination. That it seems silly and improbable either way you look at it.

So I look for whats less improbable. And faking the X-ray photographs is in my view a possibilty here.

Considering the clip with the doctors seeing the autopsy photos of the back of the head, saying this is not at all what it looked like.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #151
152. Nevermind...n/t
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #151
154. Heh
Are you really trying to have an honest discussion? On this forum, with that one?

Good luck. I wish you the best, k-robjoe.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #154
158. Oh but it is
an honest discussion. And SDuderstad has got valid points.

Saying that there were two bullets making the wounds in the throat and in the upper back, I get into a lot of problems. And I did a lousy job explaining my thinking about it.

But the starting point was the doctors, that is, the ones I am said to be ignoring. And so I asked about doctors at Parkland who gave a different description of the wounds. If I had just not mentioned the wound to the throat, but asked about the headwound, it would be harder to ignore the question. But instead I was silly, and mentioned the throat wound, and so my question was ignored.

But I find its an honest discussion.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #158
161. Maybe you should stop...
shooting your mouth off, BeFree.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #150
162. Yes
Yes, the ice-missile theory is silly.

Heres what makes me think theres two bullets involved :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzhKy-O4T4

--------

"According to this FBI report, a bullet hole was found below the shoulder and two inches to the right of the spinal column.

This opening was probed by Dr. Humes with the finger, at which time it was determined that the trajectory of the missile entering at this point had entered at a downward position of 45 to 60 degrees. Further probing determined that the distance traveled by this missile was a short distance inasmuch as the end of the opening could be felt with the finger."

http://www.kenrahn.com/jfk/the_critics/fonzi/WC_Truth_S...

And theres also this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjcLtPsOML8&feature=rela...



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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #162
163. Forgot one thing
"Autopsy photographs of the interior of JFK's chest, which might have shown the bullet's path or lack of same, have never been seen and are supposedly non-existent. No attempt to find them, or account for them has ever been undertaken, despite the testimony of Dr. Humes who stated:

" I distinctly recall going to great lengths to try and get the interior upper portion of the thorax illuminated. What happened to the film, I don't know." "

http://pages.prodigy.net/whiskey99/chapter4.htm

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #163
230. However, both the neck wound and right shounder wound had NO OUTLET ....
they were repeatedly probed at autopsy by Finck/? and neither the neck wound

nor the wound in JFK's right rear shoulder blade had an outlet --

Further, the should wound was made at a 45 degree downward angle!

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #162
164. Where'd the "other bullet" go, then?
You really need to read Bugliosi's book.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #164
165. I dont have the answer to that
Sad to say.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #133
153. Secret Service
This is the part about the Secret Service agents in the follow up car, and what they reported :

http://www.youtube.com/user/HelmerReenberg#p/c/C3508F37...

It seems like anywhere you look in this case, theres just lots of the "cherry-picked" witnesses. :)





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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #133
166. Shell casings
This information about the shell casings was new to me :

http://www.youtube.com/user/HelmerReenberg#p/c/C3508F37...

Theres just no end to it.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
134. "Posterior scull"
Its been a couple of years since my last wave of interest in the case.

I remember that I was pretty flabbergasted by this video clip, about an autopsy photo of Kennedys scull :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEvZWeYXpec

Now I find that parts 2, 3 and 4 are also online. Heres the link to part 4, with an elaboration on the autopsy photo :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_O1rS7YKsY&feature=chan...

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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #134
155. It is not surprising
that someone who cannot spell a simple word like "skull" would be flabbergasted by that video.
Are you also amazed how the sun pops up every morning seemingly out of nowhere?
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #155
156. Skull, skull, skull ....
Im Norwegian. English isnt my native language.

So thanks for the correction on the spelling of *skull*.

And for being so nasty. Very original. :)
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #156
157. you're welcome
Edited on Thu Sep-02-10 01:36 PM by zappaman
unfortunately, I can't make you stop believing every silly video you see on the internet
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #157
159. Try argumenting
You would have to try argumenting.
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #159
160. ok
I will try argumenting
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
144. Imposter
I just came across this article about the Oswald-imposter that turned up in Mexico city some months before the assassination.

-------------

"... a transcript of a phone call between FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover and the new President Lyndon Johnson. This call occurred at 10:01 AM on the morning of November 23, 1963, less than 24 hours after the assassination, while Oswald was still alive in a jail cell in Dallas. The most explosive portion of this transcript is reproduced below:

LBJ: Have you established any more about the visit to the Soviet embassy in Mexico in September?

Hoover: No, thats one angle thats very confusing, for this reasonwe have up here the tape and the photograph of the man who was at the Soviet embassy, using Oswalds name. That picture and the tape do not correspond to this mans voice, nor to his appearance. In other words, it appears that there is a second person who was at the Soviet embassy down there.<1>

Tapes of Oswald calling the Soviets not matching his voice? But hasnt the CIA declared since the beginning that these tapes were routinely recycled prior to the assassination, leaving only transcripts as evidence on November 22, 1963? When the above LBJ-Hoover conversation was first revealed a few years ago, many assumed that Hoover was being typically loose with his facts. But last November, Newman presented a good deal of evidence which corroborates Hoovers astounding statement that the taped calls did indeed survive the assassination and were listened to by FBI agents. Some of this comes from the Lopez Report, the long-suppressed House Select Committee on Assassinations staff report on Oswalds trip to Mexico City. More still comes from newly released FBI materials, some only available for the first time last year. The Lopez Report excerpted a memorandum from FBIs Belmont to Tolson on 11/23/63, which states:

..Inasmuch as the Dallas Agents who listened to the tape of the conversation allegedly of Oswald from the Cuban Embassy to the Russian Embassy in Mexico and examined the photographs of the visitor to the Embassy in Mexico and were of the opinion that neither the tape nor the photograph pertained to Oswald,..<2>

Also in the Lopez Report is the following excerpt of a memo from Hoover to Secret Service Chief Rowley on 11/23:

..The Central Intelligence Agency advised that on October 1, 1963, an extremely sensitive source had reported that an individual indentified himself as Lee Oswald, who contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City inquiring as to any messages. Special Agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Texas, have observed photographs of the individual referred to above and have listened to his voice. These Special Agents are of the opinion that the above-referred-to-individual was not Lee Harvey Oswald..<3>"

http://www.history-matters.com/essays/frameup/FourteenM...

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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
167. Fireworks / Braden / Dal-Tex
"FBI DOCUMENT 4/6/77, 62-109060-7699: Informant related that Ruby contacted him and asked if he would 'like to watch the fireworks.' He was with Jack, standing at the corner of the Postal Annex Building facing the TSBD at the time of the shooting. According to informantimmediately following the shooting Jack took off toward the area of the Dallas Morning News."

http://www.kenrahn.com/jfk/issues_and_evidence/jack_rub...

I dont know any more about this. If it actually happened.

But when you learn about Jim Braden, being arrested in the Dal-Tex building, the two reports seem to fit together.

About Jim Braden, three and a half minutes out in this clip :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXYvZ_--ZFA&p=E77DAC7C7F...

And also, the bullet that struck Tague... It makes no sense coming from the sixth floor of the School Book Depository. But from the third floor of the Dal-Tex building it makes sense. It lines up. A near miss from there lines up with hitting the pavement in front of Tague.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #167
168. With all due respect....
rather than keep seeking answers from whatever CT resource strikes your fancy, why not simply read Bugliosi's book and get answers to your questions?

Ruby's whereabouts at the time of the assassination have been repeatedly corroborated and he most certainly did not witness the assassination.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #168
169. I thought I had seen something like that
But as I understand it, Jim Braden was arrested, trying to sneak out on a freight elevator.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #169
170. With all due respect...
you could choose any large-scale catastrophic event and, within a day, I could work up an impressive laundrylist of conflicting accounts, anomalies and answered questions without breaking a sweat, and that's for cases that could be considered "open and shut".

Ever heard of all the amazing coincidences between the Kennedy and Lincoln assassinations? Same thing.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #170
171. No doubt
No doubt you can. And also in this case, theres a lot of coincidences that point in different directions. So I cant say this is what happened, or this is what happened. Its more like theres a few things that you feel you can say for sure didnt happen.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #171
173. Well, then...
if you understand that, why do continue to accept them uncritically?
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #173
174. I dont
I dont accept anything uncritically. If youre talking about Arnold Rowland ( that I just posted about ) Im not accepting it uncritically. Its not like Im saying, this is it, there can be no doubt that there were two men up there.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #174
175. Well, then...
what is the point of posting them, if you don't necessarily believe them? Where are you going with this?
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #175
176. Degrees
I dont know if thats the word used in english, that theres *degrees*.

If you accept something uncritically, you cant speak about *degrees*.

Im not accepting things uncritically, and posting about the different things here, is a part of the process ( thinking them over ).

( and also seeing connections )

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #176
177. Connections to what?
Are you bothering to fact-check them? If you're not, then you ARE accepting them uncritically.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #177
178. Getting feedback
Getting feedback is part of the process. Getting critique.

You ask : Connections to what?

Its about connections like first hearing Roger Craig tell about what he was told by Arnold Rowland. Then the clip with the TV-interview with Arnold Rowland comes along. And then the clip in "The case for conspiracy" comes along, with the firgure in the window. ( Wrote about it in post 121 / 111. )

That sort of connections.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #178
179. Do you realize that people often see connections which...
simply aren't there? Do you think fact-checking ought to play a role in "connecting the dots"?

You do realize that there's a reason why some people embrace conspiracist y theories, right?
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #179
180. Connections that just arent there
Edited on Tue Sep-07-10 05:44 PM by k-robjoe
The connection doesnt make it a fact. Get me right, Im not saying ; this is it, there is no doubt. Im saying that Im connecting these things.

Because there is a logical connection there. It doesnt make it a fact.

I talked earlier about *degrees*.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #180
181. Wait a minute...
Do you understand the role of facts (soundness) in logic?
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #181
182. Yes n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #182
183. I don't think you do based...
your statement about things being logically connected.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #183
184. Then there must be
a problem with me writing in english. I dont get my point through.

It is connected, like if you have A saying he heard a shot from the grassy knoll, and you have B saying he heard a shot from the grassy knoll.

The two are connected. Theres a connection. And if you hear that also C says he heard a shot from the grassy knoll, his testimony enters that connection.

But it doesnmake it a fact.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #184
185. Where are. you going with this? n/t
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #185
186. So you got my point then?
I think you allready asked me where Im going, and I answered that its a process of thinking through things, and getting feedback.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #186
187. Based upon a bunch of goofy assassination CT bullshit in...
Edited on Tue Sep-07-10 06:35 PM by SDuderstadt
YouTube videos.

This won't end well.
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
172. Two men in Dallas / Arnold Rowland
Just after the assassination, Roger Craig spoke with Arnold Rowland, who told him that some minutes before the shots, he and his wife saw two men ont he siwth floor of the School Book Depository. One was a black man, with a rifle. ( Rowland pointed out the men to his wife, and assumed they were from the Secret Service. )

Here is the episode of "Two men in Dallas" where Roger Craig tells about this ( 8 minutes out ) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyvRfeLDsB4&feature=rela...

Now I came across a clip with a TV-interview with Arnold Rowland :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y9_d9L6NOU&feature=rela...

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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #172
378. Amos Euins
"G. James Robert Underwood, assistant news director at Dallas station KRLD-TV, was in the motorcade, passing just in front of the School Book Depository when the shots rang out. He thought at least two of the three shots came from the building and left the open news car to grab a camera from a colleague. After going to the grassy knoll and the railroad yards, Underwood moved to the front of the School Book Depository where he overheard Amos Euins being interviewed. Three weeks after Euins testified, Underwood appeared before Warren Commission counsel Joe Ball in Dallas:

UNDERWOOD. He was telling a motorcycle officer he had seen a colored man lean out of the window upstairs and he had a rifle .... I went over and asked the boy if he had seen someone with a rifle and he said, "Yes, sir." I said, "Were they white or black?" He said, "It was a colored man. I said, "Are you sure it was a colored man?" He said, "Yes, sir," and I asked him his name and the only thing I could understand was what I thought his name was Eunice." 6 H 170)"

http://www.assassinationweb.com/milam3.htm

But the FBI didnt want any black man on the sixth floor :

"The following day, however, Rowland decided to tell a pair of FBI agents who visited him at home about the elderly negro but 'they just the same as told me to forget it now' (2H183). He says that he mentioned the negro to no less than six different pairs of FBI officers who interviewed him about the case in the following weeks, but encountered complete disinterest. (2H184-85)"

http://elderlynegro.freehomepage.com/custom.html



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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #378
379. John Powell
"Those witnesses who corroborate Rowland on this point include Carolyn Walther, Toney Henderson and John Powell, an inmate of a sixth floor cell in the County Jail directly opposite the TSBD who says that he saw the two men fiddling with the scope of a rifle."

http://elderlynegro.freehomepage.com/custom.html

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #379
412. Gee. Lots of Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza...
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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
190. Fabricating evidence
Theres a lot of fuzz here in Norway right now, about possible fabrication of evidence in the trial of Arne Treholt in 1985.

Treholt was sentenced for giving secret information to the KGB.

Now theres a lot of fuzz, because the "money evidence", a photo of Treholts suitcase, containing a big sum in dollars, seems to have been taken after his arrest, and not as the police claimed, a few months before his arrest.

Four years ago, a former policeman approached a journalist, and told him that the photo was a fraud, taken in police headquarters, after the arrest.

Now other photos have surfaced, that seem to say the same. In the evidence-photo, you can see ( whats left of ) a piece of tape (?) on the suitcase. ( Upper left in this photo. Looking like it was put there to seal the suitcase. )



Now photos of Treholts arrest have surfaced, and the piece of tape isnt there. Problem is, today, in 2010, it is there.

So the only logical conclusion seems to be that the money-evidence photo was taken after the arrest.

Heres a videoclip, if anyones interested. ( In Norwegian though. ) :

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article3804856....

Its just interesting how we were pretty certain, that this kind of thing doesnt happen in Norway. Elsewhere, yes, but not here.

And now we get this example from one of the biggest cases in Norwegian criminal history.

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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
211. Lee Bowers
Just no end to it...

Here is a clip about Lee Bowers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcXJJsZs7LE

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #211
212. Yes...
there is no end to the silliness thrown up by the JFK assassination CT, because they really have no effective counter to the physical evidence.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #212
213. The physical evidence points to conspiracy.


Here's an excellent overview: The Death of JFK: Physical Evidence of Conspiracy by Michael T. Griffith.



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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #213
214. The physical evidence nails Oswald...
Edited on Mon Sep-20-10 02:38 PM by SDuderstadt
and Griffith is as big a quack as almost anyone else in the JFK assassination CT "community".

Why don't you take all your physical "evidence" to the Dallas D.A. and see if you don't get laughed out of their office?

47 years, dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #214
215. That's what you say. The evidence says something else.
Here's information on President Kennedy's clothing, which shows a bullet hole in his back -- not neck, as Gerald Ford fixed into the Warren Commission record:



And even if it's been 47 years, there's no statute of limitations on murder or treason. That's an odd attitude to express, yours. You said the memory of that awful day filled you with tears, sduderstadt.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #215
216. It does, dude...
What does that have to do with the question of who killed him? Hint: nothing.

You keep leaving out the fact that the HSCA also said Oswald killed JFK. And your "statute of limitations" argument is as silly AA the rest of your arguments.

Serious question: what excuse do you offer for screwing up this "investigation" for 47. Maybe a better use of your time would be helping O.J. find the "real killers", dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #216
217. You can make fun of me all you want. I don't care. The point is the evidence indicates conspiracy.
The question you raised wasn't who killed JFK? You implied evidence does not point to conspiracy, which is false. The evidence indicates JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy. Another example:



JFK Exhibit F-294

Photo of 5 bullets fired from the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle: (left to right) the "magic bullet" (CE 399), two bullets fired into cotton wadding(CE 572), a bullet fired through a goat rib (CE 853), and a bullet fired through the wrist of a human cadaver (CE 856).

SOURCE: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDo...

What's critically important about the "single bullet theory" is that the entire Warren Commission report needs it to be true for its claims about a "lone gunman" to be possible. The thing is, there's no reliable chain of evidence linking the bullet found on the stretcher to either President Kennedy or Gov. Connally.



PHANTOM IDENTIFICATION OF THE MAGIC BULLET: E. L. TODD AND CE-399

John Hunt
2006

Warren Commission Exhibit 399 (CE-399) has been called the "Magic Bullet" by critics due to its extraordinarily lithe aerobatics and the structural rigor it maintained after have smashed up dense bones. The dubious nature of the bullet's condition when compared to the feats attributed to it caused early researchers like Josiah Thompson to fix the bullet with a gimlet eye.

The suspiciously intact bullet's bona fides do look good on the first pass. However, closer inspection reveals problems; the participants failed to ID CE-399 as the bullet they handled on the day of the assassination.

I asked myself, Is the bullet sitting in the National Archives today really the same bullet recovered at Parkland Memorial Hospital in the wake of the Kennedy assassination? I decided to put the issue to the test.

Phantom Identification

It was on March 16, 1964 during James Humes' testimony before the Warren Commission (WC) that CE-399 was first introduced into evidence. Arlen Specter related on the record that CE-399's bone fides were "subject to later proof," but would be introduced with the proviso that the bullet was the same "missile which been taken from the stretcher which the evidence now indicates was the stretcher occupied by Governor Connally." The fact that Humes was the first witness to testify about CE-399, yet had played no part whatsoever its chain of custody, forced Specter to introduce CE-399 "subject to later proof." Fifteen days later, Specter queried SA Robert Frazier on CE-399's provenance:

    Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Frazier, I now hand you Commission Exhibit 399, which, for the record, is a bullet, and also for the record, it is a bullet which was found in the Parkland Hospital following the assassination. Are you familiar with this exhibit?

    Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. This is a bullet which was delivered to me in the FBI laboratory on November 22, 1963 by Special Agent Elmer Todd of the FBI Washington Field Office.

    Mr. EISENBERG. Does that have your mark on it?
    Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, it does.

    Mr. EISENBERG. The bullet is in the same condition as it was when you received it?

    Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; except for the marking of my initials and the other examiners.(3H428)

Frazier established that the CE-399 bullet before him was the same one he'd received from SA Elmer Todd on 11/22/63. But Frazier's testimony that CE-399 was the same bullet handed to him by SA Todd, in and of itself, does not begin to establish whether or not it was the same bullet that actually came off the stretcher in Dallas. Oddly, Elmer Todd was never called to testify before the WC. Nor were SA Richard Johnsen, or chief of Parkland Hospital security and former DPD detective, O. P. Wright, whom both figure prominently in the chain of custody of CE-399.

The WC did call on the employee who actually found the bullet. On March 20, 1964 the WC took Parkland Hospital orderly, Darrell Tomlinson's testimony. That was a mere four days after CE-399 was introduced during Humes' testimony. Incredibly, Tomlinson, whose testimony was taken in Dallas, was queried extensively about where he found a bullet (which stretcher), but was never shown CE-399 or asked to identify it as the bullet he found the day Kennedy was assassinated. Having Tomlinson ID the bullet is the "proof" that would have established that the bullet's bone fides were in order. But that didn't happen. What did happen was that the day after Tomlinson testified, Robert Frazier delivered CE-399 to the WC (See Figure 1).

CONTINUED...

http://www.jfklancer.com/hunt/phantom.htm



What's more: When examined, it was found to contain no traces of blood or tissue.

Question for you: Why do you seem to always write what you think? Why don't you post a source or article or link to back up what you say, sduderstadt?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #217
219. Dude...
you can post all the links you want, but it doesn't make your goofy bullshit true.

And, I don't need links to point out the huge logical gaps in the flurry of bullshit you post. Here's one you still can't answer.

We know from the surgeon who operated on Conally that his entrance wound was in his back and the initial exit wound was in his chest. Unless you want to argue Connally was shot from the front (I wouldn't put anything past you), given the relative positions of JFK and Conally, how could the bullet have hit Conally where it did without having FIRST gone through JFK? You've never come close to answering that question.

Trying to reason with you reminds me of watching any of the "Pink Panther" movies and chuckling at the aptitude of Inspector Clouseau, except you're far more comical.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #219
220. The Zapruder film of the assassination provides direct evidence for conspiracy.


This scholar examined the Zapruder film and reports it is evidence for conspiracy.



The Zapruder Film

Reframing JFKs Assassination


University of Kansas Press
David R. Wrone
November 2003

400 pages, 40 photographs, 22 in full color, 6-1/8 x 9-1/4
Cloth ISBN 978-0-7006-1291-8, $29.95 (t)

It is the most famous home movie of all time, the most closely analyzed 26 seconds of film ever shot, the most disturbing visual record of what many have called the crime of the century.

In 486 framesa mere six feet of celluloidAbraham Zapruders iconic film captures from beginning to end the murder of President John F. Kennedy in broad daylight. The film has become nearly synonymous with the assassination itself and has generated decades of debate among conspiracy theorists and defenders of the Warren Commissions official report. Until now, however, no scholar has produced a comprehensive book-length study of the film and its relation to the tragic events of November 22, 1963.

David Wrone, one of our nations foremost authorities on the assassination, re-examines Zapruders film with a fresh eye and a deep knowledge of the forensic evidence. He traces the films forty-year history from its creation on the grassy knoll by Dallas dressmaker Zapruder through its initial sale to Life magazine, analysis by the Warren Commission and countless assassination researchers, licensing by the Zapruder family, legal battles over bootleg copies, and sale to the federal government for sixteen million dollars.

Wrones major contribution, however, is to demonstrate how the film itself necessarily refutes the Warren Commissions lone-gunman and single-bullet theories. The film, he notes, provides a scientifically precise timeline of events, as well as crucial clues regarding the timing, number, origins, and impact of the shots fired that day. Analyzing it frame-by-frame in relation to other evidenceincluding two key photos by Phil Willis and Ike Altgenshe builds a convincing case against the official findings.

Without fanfare, he concludes that more than three gunshots were fired from more than one direction and that most likely none were fired by alleged assassin Lee Harvey Oswald. If true, then JFKs death was the result of a conspiracy, for the Commissions nonconspiracy conclusion requires a maximum of three shots and one gunman.

CONTINUED...

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/wrozap.html



The thing about Inspector Clousseau: Because he's a good guy, he always wins.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #220
221. Dude...
why did you duck my question? Hint: because it rips your goofy CT bullshit to shreds.

The Zapruder film shows JFK and Connally reacting to CE 399 at the same time, then it shows that when the fatal headshot struck, JFK', head actually snapped forward before it snapped backward and to the left.

You and your fellow incompetents can conduct "Rohrschach" tests with the Zapruder film all day, but all it demonstrates is your confirmation bias.

47 years, dude. When can we expect a major breakthrough from you and the Keystone Kops?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #221
222. Since you don't supply any sources, I can't call them 'incompetents.' So here's video evidence...
...You can see with your own eyes: Video from Love Field shows Secret Service agent Henry Rybka and another agent ordered OFF the bumper of the President's limousine. Agent Rybka expresses surprise in the still image below. The video shows him actually shrugging his shoulders in a "What the heck?" expression at being ordered to leave the president defenseless in the open car.



Video: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/171830/secret_service_jfk /

Afterward, in William Manchester's book, Death of a President, we see the "official story" of what happened:

"Kennedy grew weary of seeing bodyguards roosting behind him every time he turned around, and in Tampa on November 18 (1963), just four days before his death, he dryly asked Agent Floyd Boring to 'keep those Ivy League charlatans off the back of the car.' Boring wasn't offended. There had been no animosity in the remark." (1988 Harper & Row/Perennial Library edition, pp. 37-38)

The thing is PRESIDENT KENNEDY NEVER SAID THAT.

Not until 35 years later do we learn the truth, though, when the great investigator Vincent Palamara asked the Secret Service agents who were there what happened in 1963:

Agents Go On Record

That's more evidence. As for your opinion of the Zapruder film, here's my opinion: The sudden movement forward and then backward suggests President Kennedy may've been struck twice within a fraction of a second.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #222
223. Dude...
Edited on Mon Sep-20-10 08:49 PM by SDuderstadt
The video of Rybka has no sound. He also has a sheepish grin on his face, because he was ordered to guard AF One. You can make up whatever bullshit you want now and, since Rybka is dead, he can't contradict your bullshit.

As far as your claim that the sudden movement forward and backward of JFK's head being suggestive that he "may have been struck twice in fraction of a second", I don't need sources to debunk that one either.

Simple.question, dude: if he got hit three times, where's the third entrance wound? And, of course, you're still ducking my question about how Connally getting struck where he did WITHOUT it going through JFK first?

Do you think about your silliness before you post?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #223
224. Where do you get that? Again, no source. Just your opinion. Who cares?
Regarding Rybka:



THE STRANGE ACTIONS (AND INACTION)
OF AGENT EMORY ROBERTS


by Vincent M. Palamara (Copyright 1999)

During the last five years or so, I have often been asked, "What agent or agents are you most suspicious of?" in relation to the tragic events of November 22, 1963. I have always answered: "There are three agents at the top of my list:
Bill Greer, Floyd Boring, and Emory Roberts." My research into Bill Greer1 and Floyd Boring2 has been well covered in the pages of several journals, and in my manuscript The Third Alternative--Survivor's Guilt: The Secret Service and the JFK Murder. However, Emory P. Roberts merits the same scrutiny, if not more so; a look at his role is now in order.

Secret Service agent Emory P. Roberts was a former Baltimore policeman3 (and high school colleague of author Howard Donahue of Mortal Error fame)4 who had recently been on President Kennedy's trip to Florida on November 18, 1963. As he was later to do on the fateful Texas trip, Mr. Roberts served as the commander of the agents in the follow-up car, one of two well-used 1956 Cadillac convertibles that sometimes served as the presidential limousine (an example is provided in JFK's summer, 1963, Ireland trip).5 On both trips, Sam Kinney served as the driver of this car.6 As one of three Shift Leaders of the White House Detail (the other two were Stewart G. Stout, Jr. and Arthur L. Godfrey, both also on the Texas trip with Roberts),7 Emory was a stern and forceful agent who took and gave out orders in a serious manner while working on President Kennedy's trips. It was during the Florida trip that some interesting things involving Agent Roberts occurred which would have a direct bearing on November 22, 1963.

The President visited Palm Beach, Miami, and Tampa on November 18, 1963; however, only the beautiful city of Tampa involved a motorcade, and quite an eventful one at that, as agents Chuck Zboril and Don Lawton were riding on the rear of the limousine, someone from the crowd threw a red "Powerhouse" candy bar at the motorcade, and the confection landed with a "thud" on the hood of the Secret Service follow-up car. Thinking it could be a lethal stick of dynamite, Agent Roberts pushed the object forcefully off the hood. Realizing what the object was, Roberts and the other agents shared a laugh about it.8 But they had had good reason to be jumpy: the atmosphere in Tampa was one that gave the agents cause for concern--hostility from the anti-Castro Cuban community,9 the Joseph Milteer threat,10 and an organized crime related-scare.11 As he had done countless times before, Mr. Roberts had the two agents that were riding on the rear of the presidential limousine "fall back" from time to time (sometimes based on Special Agent in Charge Jerry Behn's suggestion; in this case it was the number two agent, Asst. Special Agent in Charge Floyd Boring). This was quite often a spur-of-the-moment decision based on the speed of the cars, the size and proximity of the crowd, and the potential for threat(s) at the moment12 (often, the two agents of the rear of JFK's limousine took their own initiative in going between the two cars, as agent Clint Hill did several times in Dallas). This will become important later....

Jumping ahead to Dallas on November 22, 1963, (after friendly, enthusiastic, and uneventful motorcades in San Antonio, Houston, and Fort Worth on November 21-22,1963), Agent Roberts assigned the other seven agents on his particular shift to the follow-up car: Sam Kinney, Clint Hill, Paul Landis, William"Tim" McIntyre, Glen Bennett, George Hickey, and John Ready13 -- four of whom had only hours before participated in the in famous drinking incident in Fort Worth. Mr. Roberts' shift was the worst offender of the three shifts!14 What makes this tragic is that Roberts had the most important shift of all: the 8:00a.m. to 4:00 p.m. shift-- the Fort Worth/Dallas part of the Texas trip (the other two shifts, Agent Stout's 4:00 p.m. to midnight detail and Agent Godfrey's midnight to 8:00 a.m. shift were not actively protecting JFK during the Dallas motorcade. They were all waiting for JFK to complete the motorcade--Stout's detail at the Trade Mart, Godfrey's detail in Austin with Bob Burk and Bill Payne at both the Commodore-Perry Hotel and the LBJ Ranch).

Cover-up number one: Agent Roberts would later write (April 28, 1964) that "there was no question in my mind as to (the agents') physical and mental capacity to function effectively in their assigned duties."15 Like Chief Rowley and Inspector Kelley before both the WC and the HSCA, Agent Roberts covered up the drinking incident, despite Secret Service regulations which stated that this was grounds for removal from the agency.16 Sleep deprivation and alcohol consumption wreak havoc on even the best trained reflexes. While leaving Love Field on the way to the heart of Dallas, destiny, and murder, Agent Roberts rose from his seat and, using his voice and several hand gestures, forced agent Henry J. Rybka fall back from the rear area of JFK's limousine, causing a perplexed Rybka to stop and raise his arms several times in disgust (Rybka would then remain at the airport during the murder, having been effectively neutralized) --although Paul Landis made room for him on the right running board of the follow-up car, Agent Rybka did not budge.17 Although Rybka worked the follow-up in Houston the day before18 and was a gun-carrying protective agent, he was not allowed to do his job on November 22,1963 (Rybka has since died...).

Cover-up number two: Both Emory Roberts and Winston Lawson placed Agent Rybka in the follow-up car in their initial reports, only to "correct" the record later, after November 22, although Rybka was not even mentioned anywhere in Agent Lawson's Preliminary Survey Report--making it seem obvious that he was covering Emory Roberts' behind.19 As the cars approached the Main and Houston Street intersection, Clint Hill fell back to the follow-up car. Agent Hill was the only agent to ride on the rear of the limousine in Dallas and he was not even assigned to JFK (as a last-minute addition to the trip, Agent Hill was, like Paul Landis, part of Jackie's detail, and came at the First Lady's personal request). John Ready, a relatively new agent, never approached JFK's side of the limousine. Why not? Emory Roberts explained: "SA Ready would have done the same thing (as Agent Hill did) if motorcycle was not a President's corner of car"(!)20 Strange, but this posed no problem at all for Agent Don Lawton on November 18, 1963, in Tampa21 (but unfortunately, like Rybka, Lawton was left at Love Field and was not in the motorcade detail).22 In any event, there was always cooperation between the motorcycles and the agents; they maneuvered around each other countless times, including in Dallas on November 22.

CONTINUED...

http://www.jfklink.com/articles/EmoryRoberts.html



Palamara cites original sources -- the agents themselves, recorded in conversation, in their own words.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #224
225. Dude...
do you think the Secret Service just leaves AF One unguarded? Hint: there are simple explanations for all your goofy questions and silly claims. Why don't you know them? Hint: because you ignore any evidence which contradicts your goofy theories.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #225
226. Both agents were ORDERED off the back of JFK's limousine.
That's what the video shows.

That's what the Secret Service agents said.

Almost forgot: Dunno why you say what you do. That's your business, sduderstadt.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-10 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #226
227. Dude...
Simple question: do you believe the Secret Service just leaves AF One unguarded when it's sitting on a tarmac? If you were a Secret Service agent, would you rather guard AF One or go with the "boss" on the motorcade?

As far as your "dunno why you say what you do" bullshit, are you questioning my motivation again, dude? Do you think loving who JFK was requires embracing your goofy bullshit?

47 years later and you've still got dick.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #227
232. Don't be ridiculous, sduderstadt. Roberts ORDERED Rybka and Lawton off JFK's car.


Secret Serive Agent Emory Roberts ordered Henry J. Rybka and Don Lawton off the president's car. If Emory Roberts wanted to leave someone behind to watch Air Force One besides the standard detail already assigned to the jet's security, he could have pulled someone from his car. Unlike the presidential limousine, it was full of Secret Service agents.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #232
234. So, now you're claiming the Secret Service was in on it, too?
Dude, is there ANY conspiracy theory so goofy, that even YOU won't embrace it?

Your bullshit answer to my question about Connally indicates you'll embrace any ridiculous notion as long as it preserves your ludicrous conspiracy fantasy.

Let us know when you bust this thing wide open. After all, it's only been 47 years, dude.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #234
239. Fume all you want, sduderstadt. It's obvious the video the Secret Service was ordered to stand-down.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #239
240. Dude...
Edited on Tue Sep-21-10 09:28 AM by SDuderstadt
as you have pointed out, there is no statute of limitations on murder. If I was one of your little groupies, I would be pissed off that you are apparently letting the real killer(s) run around scotfree (assuming they aren't dead by now).

You've had 47 years to blow the lid off this thing. Put your case together and present it to the Dallas DA. After 47 years, what's holding you back (well, besides a total lack of evidence)?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #240
244. You act like you've forgotten what this thread is about, sduderstadt -- EVIDENCE from an FBI man.
Remember? Special Agent Don Adams came out and reported how the FBI squelched the Joseph A. Milteer investigation?

Read up and down the thread and you'll find even more evidence of conspiracy in the assassination of President Kennedy. Don't take my word for it, I've included sources and links -- unlike you, dude.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #244
245. Dude...
47 years. When can we expect a breakthrough? By 2010? By 2020? By 2030? By that year even those who were too young to understand will be in their seventies.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-10 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #245
250. President Kennedy was murdered by a conspiracy, a secret cabal that remains in power.
Why you doubt that is beyond my concern.

For those interested in discussing the subject:



Cheney Is Linked to Concealment of C.I.A. Project

By SCOTT SHANE
The New York Times
July 12, 2009

The Central Intelligence Agency withheld information about a secret counterterrorism program from Congress for eight years on direct orders from former Vice President Dick Cheney, the agencys director, Leon E. Panetta, has told the Senate and House intelligence committees, two people with direct knowledge of the matter said Saturday.

The report that Mr. Cheney was behind the decision to conceal the still-unidentified program from Congress deepened the mystery surrounding it, suggesting that the Bush administration had put a high priority on the program and its secrecy.

SNIP...

The disclosure about Mr. Cheneys role in the unidentified C.I.A. program comes a day after an inspector generals report underscored the central role of the former vice presidents office in restricting to a small circle of officials knowledge of the National Security Agencys program of eavesdropping without warrants, a degree of secrecy that the report concluded had hurt the effectiveness of the counterterrorism surveillance effort.

SNIP...

Representative Peter Hoekstra of Michigan, the top Republican on the House intelligence committee, said last week that he believed Congress would have approved of the program only in the angry and panicky days after 9/11, on 9/12, he said, but not later, after fears and tempers had begun to cool.

SNIP...

A report released on Friday by the inspectors general of five agencies about the National Security Agencys domestic surveillance program makes clear that Mr. Cheneys legal adviser, David S. Addington, had to approve personally every government official who was told about the program. The report said the exceptionally compartmented nature of the program frustrated F.B.I. agents who were assigned to follow up on tips it had turned up.

CONTINUED...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/us/politics/12intel.h...



Oh. And why secret government is bad.




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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-10 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #250
251. Bloviate all you want, Octafish
prove it.
seriously, what are you waiting for?
careful though...they might get you like they got all those others who knew the truth!
:rofl:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #251
255. ''careful though...they might get you like they got all those others who knew the truth!''
How profound.

Now here's something about a person who worked to uncover the truth about the assassination of President Kennedy:



The DEATH of DOROTHY KILGALLEN

A Key Chapter from "Justice For JFK"


by Robert D. Morningstar


On November 8, 1965, Dorothy Kilgallen, was found dead in her apartment shortly after returning from Dallas where she had interviewed Jack Ruby and had conducted her own investigation of the JFK murder during several trips to cover the Ruby trial.

SNIP...

...it is a fact that when Dorothy returned to New York, she told friends that she had discovered that Ruby and the slain Officer J.D. Tippit had been friends. They had been seen together in Ruby's Carousel Club at a meeting 2 weeks before the assassination in the company of Bernard Weissman, who had placed the "JFK-Wanted for Treason" newspaper ad in Dallas newspapers on November 22nd, 1963. Studying the Warren Commission Report, Killgallen deduced that the meeting had also been reported to Chief Justice Warren AND that the identity of "the fourth man",which she had been unable to ascertain, had been reported to Warren as "a rich Texas oil man", as Earl Warren described him in the official transcript.

SNIP...

Kilgallen had told Israel about a very mysterious and sinister player in the JFK assassination to whom she gave the code name "ferret man". From the description of the individual, it is clear that "ferret man" was none other than David Ferrie, another known associate of Jack Ruby involved in gun running, the Marcello mob and other anti-Castro operations from Florida to Texas. At one time, Ruby and Ferrie were co-owners of an airplane.

Nightlife's producer, Nick Vanoff, pleaded with her not to broach the subject on the air. She had arrived at the studio with a folder full of pertinent and explosive notes documents. She kept the folder closed throughout the interview. Vanoff, asked her agent, Bob Bach, to send her "a dozen long-stemmed roses."

On Sunday November 8, Dorothy Kilgallen was found dead, sitting fully dressed, upright in bed, early in the morning. The New York City Police investigated and the coroner found that Dorothy Kilgallen had died from ingestion of a lethal combination of alchohol and barbituates. All her notes and the article on which she had been working to "blow the JFK assassination wide open" also disappeared.

http://www.jfkresearch.com/morningstar/killgallen.htm



Good luck with keeping your record of futility intact, zappaman. You must be so proud.
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