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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 01:55 PM
Original message
Blackwater Director Let 9/11 Hijackers into US, then Killed, Tortured the Remaining Witnesses
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 02:33 PM by leveymg
We learn today from NYT reporters James Risen and Mark Mazzetti that Blackwater (Xe) started receiving CIA contracts in early 2002 to provide support and security to CIA missions in Afghanistan. See, http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/us/21intel.html This follows reports that Blackwater was contracted by CIA to target and carry out assassinations worldwide as part of the Global War on Terrorism.

Blackwater Vice Chairman, Cofer Black, former Director of the CIA Counter-Terrorism Center from 1999-2002, again appears at the center of controversial CIA programs to assassinate, kidnap, and torture targeted figures. See, THE CIA OFFICER WHO OVERSAW TORTURE: Cofer Black , December 23, 2007, http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/337

After Blacks CIA retirement in May, 2002, he was appointed with Ambassadorial rank and diplomatic immunity to head the State Departments counter-terrorism programs. Immediately upon the US occupation, Blackwater was given the primary contract for DOS security in Iraq. The NC-based company was then handed a no-bid contract to manage the Predator program in 2004. Black became Vice-Chairman of Blackwater International several months later.

Black was an early advocate for using drones to carry out targeted killings. He was in charge of CIA/CTC on February 4, 2002, when the armed Predator carried out its first lethal mission. That strike killed several Afghanis thought at the time to be Al-Qaeda figures, but allegations about the identities of the victims were disputed, and they may have been innocent villagers scavenging the remains of a battle field near Zawar Kili. (Boston Globe 02/15/2002)

First Confirmed Al-Qaeda Figure Killed by Predator was a U.S. Citizen

In November, 2002, a Predator attacked a vehicle in the desert of Yemen. That is the first successful confirmed targeted-killing of al-Qaeda using remotely controlled drone aircraft operated by the CIA. Among those known to be killed was an American citizen from upstate New York named Kamal Derwish. See, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...



In November 2002, the CIA used a Predator fitted with a five-foot-long Hellfire missile to kill a senior al Qaeda leader, Abu Ali al-Harithi, as he was riding in a car in the Yemeni desert. Also killed with Harithi, who was suspected of masterminding the October 2000 attack on the destroyer USS Cole, was a naturalized U.S. citizen, Kamal Derwish.

Derwish, it was determined later, was part of the Lackawanna, N.Y., group of Yemeni men who admitted to training in al Qaeda camps.

The CIA is permitted to operate the lethal Predator under presidential authority promulgated after the Sept. 11 attacks. Shortly after the attacks, Bush approved a "presidential finding" that allowed the CIA to write a set of highly classified rules describing which individuals could be killed by CIA officers. Such killings were defined as self-defense in a global war against al Qaeda terrorists.

The rules have been vetted by the White House, CIA and State Department lawyers. They allow CIA counterterrorism officials in the field to decide much more quickly when to fire, according to former intelligence officials involved in developing the rules.


Contradicts Claims that Blackwater Assassination Program Did Not Result in Casualties

Lethal attacks by the armed Predator program continued after Blackwater received its contract, most of these attacks taking place in Pakistan:


On 13 May 2005, Haitham al-Yemeni, an al Qaeda explosives expert from Yemen, was killed in a village in northwest Pakistan near the Afghanistan border by a CIA-operated MQ-1 Predator aircraft firing a Hellfire missile.<30>
On 3 December 2005, a US Predator UAV reportedly killed high-level Al Qaeda member Chief Abu Hamza Rabia in his sleep in Haisori, Pakistan. Four others were also killed.<31>
On 13 January 2006, several US Predators conducted an airstrike on Damadola village in Pakistan where al Qaeda's second-in-command Ayman al-Zawahiri was reportedly located. CIA Predators reportedly fired 10 missiles killing 18 civilians, including five women and five children. According to Pakistani authorities, the U.S. strike was based on faulty intelligence and al-Zawahiri was not present in the village. Pakistani officials nevertheless claimed that Midhat Mursi (Abu Khabab al-Masri) al Qaeda's master bomb maker and chemical weapons expert, Khalid Habib the al Qaeda operations chief for Pakistan and Afghanistan, and Abdul Rehman al Magrabi a senior operations commander for al Qaeda were all killed in the Damadola attack.<32><33> U.S. and Pakistani officials now say that none of those al Qaeda leaders perished in the strike and that only local villagers were killed.<34>
On 30 October 2006, the Bajaur airstrike was conducted, targeting an alleged militant training camp and targeting al Qaeda's second-in-command, Ayman al-Zawahiri. The strike hit a religious school where militants were believed to be present. Eyewitness reports said that two explosions were heard following a missile being fired from an MQ-1 Predator. Pakistani intelligence officials have told western media that Predators were used in the strike, which utilized Hellfire missiles. Although Zawahiri does not appear to have been caught in the strike, Pakistani officials have stated that between two and five senior al Qaeda fighters, including the mastermind of the airliners plot in the UK, were killed in the raid.<35> While some reports state that the school was a religious training center, Pakistani authorities, including President Musharraf, have stated that the school provided military training to al Qaeda militants. Casualty figures range from 80 to 85 people killed.<36>
On 29 January 2008 an MQ-1B killed Abu Laith al-Libi in Mir Ali. Wiki - Predator



This report of Blackwater/Xe operating the Predator program does not square with the claim heard elsewhere in today's news that nobody was actually killed by Blackwater's assassination program. It's gotta be one or the other, unless Blackwater was running multiple wet ops. See,

C.I.A. Sought Blackwaters Help in Plan to Kill Jihadists
By MARK MAZZETTI

WASHINGTON The Central Intelligence Agency in 2004 hired outside contractors from the private security contractor Blackwater USA as part of a secret program to locate and assassinate top operatives of Al Qaeda, according to current and former government officials.

Executives from Blackwater, which has generated controversy because of its aggressive tactics in Iraq, helped the spy agency with planning, training and surveillance. The C.I.A. spent several million dollars on the program, which did not capture or kill any terrorist suspects.




P.S. - Derwish has been identified as a possible double-agent who was in Afghanistan with bin Laden just weeks before the 9/11 attack. He was one of the first to be silenced. Derwish was a key figure in US intelligence surveillance of al-Qaeda cells inside the U.S., and provided a direct link between the bombings of the USS Cole and 9/11.

Derwish had trained in Afghanistan in 1992 and fought with the U.S.-backed Muslim Army in Bosnia. In the Spring of 2002, U.S. intelligence intercepted communications between him and two important al-Qaida figures, one of them involved in the USS Cole bombing. Derwish had been instrumental in organizing the the Lackawanna 6 into an al-Qaeda sleeper cell. Warrants were issued to conduct round-the-clock surveillance on members of the group.

The FBI monitored phone calls from Derwish in Yemen to some members of the group that appeared to be intended to assess their status or availability. It also intercepted e-mails from one of the group, Mukhtar al-Bakri, who was then in Bahrain. One of them appeared particularly suspicious. The e-mail was entitled "Big Meal" and read in English translation as follows:

"How are you my beloved, God willing you are fine. I would like to remind you of obeying God and keeping him in your heart because the next meal will be very huge. No one will be able to withstand it except those with faith. There are people here who had visions and their visions were explained that this thing will be very strong. No one will be able to bear it." 12


The phone calls and e-mails had the intense interest of the White House, the CIA and the FBI that the Lackawanna group was about to be activated for a major terrorist attack. At this point, the Buffalo FBI field office was required to send briefings on the results of their investigation to FBI Headquarters twice a day, and these were often passed on to the White House in the president's daily threat briefings.

At the request of the CIA, al-Bakri was detained by the Bahrain police, coincidentally on his wedding night. He admitted to having traveled to the Al Farooq camp in late spring and early summer and also gave the names of the rest of the Lackawanna group. Based on al-Bakri's testimony, the six Lackawanna men were arraigned in September, 2002, and charged with providing material support to Al-Qaeda. Somehow, despite the intense surveillance, Derwish was allowed to leave the U.S. and travelled to Yemen, where he was killed by a CIA Predator drone. See, http://www.rjhresearch.com/ADR/counterterrorism/Counter...


The problem here is that Blackwater is run by the same guys who let the 9/11 hijackers into the US


Former CIA Counter-terrorism Center (CTC) Director Cofer Black also directed the assassination targeting, along with rendition and torture programs that silenced the surviving al-Qaeda conspirators. Some targets, like Derwish, were done away with permanently, while others like KSM and Abu Zubyadeh - figures with long ties to US intelligence - were allowed to run around for a while before capture. The Al-Qaeda figures subjected to brainwahing and waterboarding that turned them into near-vegetables all had ties with the CIA during the 1990s in Bosnia and Chechnya.

Cofer Black was the Chief of CIA station in Khartoum when bin Laden and Abu Zubaydeh were there, running CIA-ISI-Saudi Jihadist operations against the Russians in Bosnia and Chechnya. Black admitted in testimony before Congress that he had contact with bin Laden in Sudan.

Basically, Cofer Black and some others got away with allowing the Flt. 77 hijackers (one of whom was also intimately involved with the Cole attack) into the country and these same CIA/CTC managers then were put in charge of the mopping-up operation.




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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Zo. I zee you finally fingered it oot. Curses, Red Baronie, floyed again.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Smirk." - xCommander AWOL (R)
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 02:06 PM by SpiralHawk
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. "Sneer." -xVP Dickie 'Five-Military-Deferments' Cheney (R)
Republicon chickenhawks luv them their massive war profits.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. "let's keep those BCCI books closed' (agreed Bush-Stephens-Clinton-Dubai and Saudi royals)
9-11 would NEVER happened if BCCI had been thoroughly scrutinized as requested by ts investigators - the fascist-funded global terror networks would have been exposed as creations and tools of the BFEE long ago.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. yep..
which is why i think clinton is far more responsible for bush than nader ever was.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. And the much-maligned and ridiculed Cynthia McKinney was one of the
most avid and intelligent pursuers of the BCCI crooks. I've seen footage of her questioning them and making them squirm.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
82. and what about our elected President in 2004: John Kerry? I don't recall either
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 10:49 AM by mod mom
of the Clintons fighting for his rightful placement after what occurred in Ohio in 2004, in fact one of their top cronies worked w * to see that he wasn't:




Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)

By M.J. Rosenberg - October 7, 2006, 9:11AM
I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.

On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.

-snip
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did...


as leaders in the Democratic Party, their Democratic votes that were disenfranchised and not counted would have meant something to the media, but their silence helped to buryy it and label us would fought for the will of the people to be labeled as whack-jobs. Funny how Hillary was criticizing US elections recently. Too bad she didn't do it when it meant something!
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
88. Yes, Cynthia was targeted and drummed out of the House ... so transparent and vile.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
105. "Official story of 9/11 almost entirely untrue" (started by kpete 5-16-09)
"There Was An Agreement NOT To Tell The Truth"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Yes, the link above went to the dungeon-but not the truth within it
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. Rec'ing before it gets put in the dungeon...
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
48. but this is so relevant to other recent stories. nt
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Boxerfan Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nothing to XE here...Wouldn't want to interupt the "great debate"
Like-breaking this down in a intelligent manner on prime time TV would be soooo boring.

Look-a onse sided pole says Obama's not popular-Now thems ratings!!

I kinda wish I was being sarcastic...
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. Evil little fuck
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 02:42 PM by arcadian
Looks like Karl Rove's and PW Both'sa evil little love child. Bastard looks like he would have fit in niceley in an Aparthied ruled South Africa. Cofer Black does have ties to Rhodesia by the way.

Initially, he worked as a case officer in Lusaka, Zambia during the Rhodesian War next door. He transferred to Somalia for two years during a Cold War proxy conflict between Ethiopians and Somalis in the sands of the Ogaden desert. He worked in South Africa during the National Party government's's war against guerrilla movements opposing the apartheid system. While assigned to Kinshasa, Zaire, Black was involved in the Reagan Administration's covert action program to arm anti-communist guerrillas in neighboring Angola.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cofer_Black
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. Evil

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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. This too shall be "dungeonized". (otherwise people might think DU is full of crazies?)
Only crazies would doubt the official story and demand a real investigation. Now this will be where it belongs: among stories about UFOs and Sasquatch.

Quick! Into the dungeon!

K&R.

Drip, drip, drip.

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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. LOL! We have only been proved right again and again but... whatever.
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 05:12 PM by mirrera
Edited to say: Fabled enemies... google it. Great Video...
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
107. I'm so tired of the truth being buried
Blackwater, the secret genocidal tendencies of those gays, Mossad's deep involvement in, well, everything.

Western civilization is in decline, imo!
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. K & R - Jesus Fuck. n/t.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R n/t
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. It should've bothered more people when a citizen of the United States was summarily executed.
Gee. A guy who could connect more than few dots is...gone. And all Smirko had to do was declare Derwish's friend an "Enemy Combatant" and that was that -- an American citizen killed by the state without due process of law.

No trial. No jury. No muss. No fuss. No oversight. No ACLU.

Like Paul Wellstone: No man. No problem.

So, from the regime's perspective, what's not to like about privatizing terror? Besides it being NAZI government.

For those wondering how could a private company become such a huge conglomerate, overnight:



The Bush administration's ties to Blackwater

The Bush administration's ties to Blackwater

Blamed in the deaths of Iraqi civilians, the private security firm has long ties to the White House and prominent Republicans, including Ken Starr.
By Ben Van Heuvelen
Mother Jones
Oct. 02, 2007

EXCERPT...

On Tuesday morning, Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, will hold a hearing on the U.S. military's use of private contractors. When Waxman announced plans for the hearing last week, the State Department directed Blackwater not to give any information or testimony without its signoff. After a public spat between Rep. Waxman and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, the State Department relented. Blackwater CEO and founder Erik Prince is now scheduled to testify at 10 a.m. Tuesday.

But the attempt to shield Prince was apparently not the first time State had protected Blackwater. A report issued by Waxman on Monday alleges that State helped Blackwater cover up Iraqi fatalities. In December 2006, State arranged for the company to pay $15,000 to the family of an Iraqi guard who was shot and killed by a drunken Blackwater employee. In another shooting death, the payment was $5,000. As CNN reported Monday, the State Department also allowed a Blackwater employee to write State's initial "spot report" on the Sept. 16 shooting incident -- a report that did not mention civilian casualties and claimed contractors were responding to an insurgent attack on a convoy.

The ties between State and Blackwater are only part of a web of relationships that Blackwater has maintained with the Bush administration and with prominent Republicans. From 2001 to 2007, the firm has increased its annual federal contracts from less than $1 million to more than $500 million, all while employees passed through a turnstile between Blackwater and the administration, several leaving important posts in the Pentagon and the CIA to take jobs at the security company. Below is a list of some of Blackwater's luminaries with their professional -- and political -- rsums.

Erik Prince, founder and CEO: How did Blackwater go from a small corporation training local SWAT teams to a seemingly inseparable part of U.S. operations in Iraq? Good timing, and the connections of its CEO, may be the answer.

Prince, who founded Blackwater in 1996 but reportedly took a behind-the-scenes role in the company until after 9/11, has connections to the Republican Party in his blood. His late father, auto-parts magnate Edgar Prince, was instrumental in the creation of the Family Research Council, one of the right-wing Christian groups most influential with the George W. Bush administration. At his funeral in 1995, he was eulogized by two stalwarts of the Christian conservative movement, James Dobson and Gary Bauer. Edgar Prince's widow, Elsa, who remarried after her husband's death, has served on the boards of the FRC and another influential Christian-right organization, Dobson's Focus on the Family. She currently runs the Edgar and Elsa Prince Foundation, where, according to IRS filings, her son Erik is a vice president. The foundation has given lavishly to some of the marquee names of the Christian right. Between July 2003 and July 2006, the foundation gave at least $670,000 to the FRC and $531,000 to Focus on the Family.

Both Edgar and Elsa have been affiliated with the Council for National Policy, the secretive Christian conservative organization whose meetings have been attended by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Bremer, and whose membership is rumored to include Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed and Dobson. The Edgar and Elsa Prince Foundation gave the CNP $80,000 between July 2003 and July 2006.

CONTINUED...

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/10/02/blackwater... /



Thank you for connecting the dots, leveymg. Your post should be on the front page of TIME, Newsweek, US News & World Report and every major newspaper in the country, and lead the evening news. Instead, we get diversions from ABCNNBCBSFauxNoiseNutwork and Corporate McPravda.

It's not just journalism, I wish Uncle Sam had you and a thousand more like you on the payroll. Ours would be a different future and ours would be a better nation. That's what good information and analysis does.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. What bothers me more than his summary execution is
the fact that he'll never be able to testify at trial.

I'm glad to be able share this with you and so many other intelligent, compassionate people here at DU. It helps me through my day to know that there are those who do still care enough about their country to be outraged about this sort of thing.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
73. you are the best!
your journalism is superb and rare--you keep me from thinking I'm just having a very bad hallucination.

Luvya!
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #14
75. I'm also bothered by the Erik Prince/Buzzy Krongard connection.
From Jeremy Scahill's article: Blackwater's work for the CIA was the result of meetings in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 between Prince and Alvin "Buzzy" Krongard, then-executive director of the CIA, the agency's number-three man. Krongard and Prince, according to a former Blackwater executive interviewed by The Nation, "were good buddies." In a 2006 interview for my book, Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army, Krongard said that the company was hired to provide security for the CIA in Afghanistan. "Blackwater got a contract because they were the first people that could get people on the ground," Krongard said. "The only concern we had was getting the best security for our people. If we thought Martians could provide it, I guess we would have gone after them."

The relationship between Krongard and Prince apparently got chummier after the contract was signed. One former Blackwater executive said in 2006, "Krongard came down and visited Blackwater , and I had to take his kids around and let them shoot on the firing range a number of times." That visit took place after the CIA contract was signed, according to the former executive, and Krongard "may have come down just to see the company that he had just hired."


http://www.alternet.org/world/142098/former_cia_agent%3... /



Has Krongard ever commented on the very odd coincidence that the pre-9/11 put options were placed by the bank where he served as chairman immediately before joining the CIA? Seems like his knowledge, contacts and experience with A.B. Brown would have made him the ideal person to investigate exactly who could be despicable enough to try and profit off of tragedy rather than try to prevent it.

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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
98. Bush - Blackwater Family Ties
"Bush - Blackwater Family Ties"


Joseph Schmitz, COO & general counsel of the Prince Group, Blackwater's parent company, is married to one Lucila Garnica Gallo, Colomba Bush's sister (Jeb Bush's wife).

And Joseph Schmitz's sister is------>Mary Kay Letourneau.

and their father is ~~>> John G. Schmitz, was a two-term Republican congressman from California and a prominent member of the John Birch Society, an ultra-conservative group that flowered during the Cold War. He ran for president in 1972 as the candidate of the American Independent Party after its founder, George Wallace, was paralyzed by a would-be assassin.

John Schmitzs political career ended with the revelation that he had a mistress who bore two of his children. He then moved to Washington, where he bought a house once owned by Sen. Joseph McCarthy.

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sixmile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. Lots of info in this post, thanks!
Most bothersome is the fact that Xe -a private, for profit corporation- has its own army complete with predator drones, helicopters, top secret intelligence and security clearance, armored vehicles etc. and is run by ultra right ex-U.S. military trained personnel. What could possibly go wrong?


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. Jeremy Scahill pointed out the other day that BW runs under
about 19 other names. So, when people like Baer say casually that BW never killed anyone in that program, I think 1) then it was some other iteration and 2) why is Baer doing damage control for Black Water?

:shrug:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Bob Baer has always had his own agenda - he's not working for Prince or Black.
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 04:48 PM by leveymg
Have you read his books? He can be wrong about some things, but he's nobody's shill.

I think you hit it when you said "some other other iteration". There were several wet operations going on, some big and noisy, and others we haven't heard about - and, that's just within that one little NC corporation. There's also the aging palace guard that surrounds the Bush Dynasty - that's another, distinct group that thinks big but can't tie their own shoes. Not anymore, anyway. The last really efficient American death squad was the one described by Trento, the group that retired from the Agency in 1977 with Ted Shackley and Ed Wilson. The Vietnam-era spooks really knew how to act like professional killers. They had formidable competitors in the anti-communist extremists attached to Operation Condor, the Safari Club, and Alexandre de Marenches. The KGB, or whatever it calls itself these days, also has some skills. So does Mossad.

Someone around here said, Condor became Talon. Maybe. But, I think that BW bunch aren't really strategic enough to be pulling the strings. I still tend to believe that global bankers, oil companies, and their lawyers really do the most sophisticated scenario planning.

As always, follow the money. Who made out biggest from the last round of gaming Wall Street and looting the Treasury? You don't make that kind of killing without good intelligence.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I haven't read Baer and have no rational basis for my belly flips
except he gives them the benefit of the doubt too readily. And, that's subjective, I know. Did you see this OP?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I did. And, my stomach and the hairs on my neck also did some flips.
I also wonder if Bob really knows who's been killing whom these past 8 years. He got out when the getting was still honorable. This statement in his Op-ed stood out for me:

"Even more troubling, I think we will find out that in the unraveling of the Bush years, Blackwater is not the worst of the contractors, some of which did reportedly end up carrying out their assigned hits."

He's implying that there are other contractors. Stealthier ones. Still out in the cold.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Or BW by another name. If Scahill could figure out BW has
all those fronts, surely Baer can.

I don't think this program is over. Especially in Afghanistan. Dostum was brought back to "back" Karzai in the election and he is a CIA intimate.

How do you shut something like that down when there are so many layers of padding between the operatives and the White House and when you're still in country? They're still out there, I'd bet anything.

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troubledamerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
42. WOW quote: "BW aren't really strategic enough to be pulling the strings"
If BW employs Cofer Black -- CIA Counterterror Director 1999-2002, says Wikipedia -- that's not strategic enough?

If BW employs "Buzzy" Krongard -- Executive Director of the CIA, 1998-2004, says Wikipedia -- that's not strategic enough?

"Follow the money, who made out the biggest"? Krongard is linked to the notorious 9/11 Put Options, and employed by one of the biggest financial beneficiaries of 9/11: Blackwater. And God knows what else.

Means, motive, opportunity.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #19
47. Don't forget the AA put orders
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 02:08 AM by guruoo
September 11 Inquiry: Questions to be Answered
January, 2003

SEC

1. What are the names of the individuals and the financial institutions who placed "put" orders
on American Airlines and United Airlines for the 3 weeks prior to 9/11? Who has possession of these monies?

http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
70. BAER HAS A LONG HISTORY OF FASCISM
The "Bayer" aspirin company was closely allied to
Hitler and the Nazi party. They were responsible for
developing and supplying the Nazi's with the "gas"
used to kill Jewish people at the concentration camps. They
also sponsored and got the direct results of Dr. Mendela(?)
the Nazi "Dr." who performed many experiments on
Humans (just atrocities really, like sewing on extra heads
onto living "subjects" and documenting the agony
and death that ensued). Bayer (same company (Baer) was
partners with the Nazi party.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #70
76. That really is funny.
Very creative. Baer (by his own account) was recruited into CIA because his left-liberal mother took him on long trips around Europe and behind the Iron Curtain. He had languages, had traveled widely, was already familiar with some of the places he might be assigned, and had an interest and body of knowledge of European and Middle Eastern history and antiquities, which gave him a good cover.

I doubt his politics were anything one could call fascist. Certainly, his personality-type isn't. Baer - Bayer - oh, that's good! :think:
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Democracyinkind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #70
136. Mengele - Mandela?

Baer - Bayer ?

"Sewing extra heads on subjects"??

Give me a break.

Look, I hate to be saying this, because 99% percent of the time I'm on the other side of this debate, but please refrain from such silly posts. Apart from making yourself look pretty foolish, you are hurting the serious effort done by the people who have actually researched 9-11 instead of just vaguley repeating some misunderstood narrative from a fringe website.
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R. Those creeps belong in jail.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
22. I fail to understand how with all the of interest news the media is by far ignoring it all
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. They aren't. I saw Cofer Black's face on the CBS Evening News last night.
And, there's the accusation that Prince offed a federal informant. These guys are going down, but as always, on the lesser charges.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
24. K&R, these Black Waters run deep...

now the real purpose of much of the torture and killing is coming to light.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
26. Glad to see the nasty men having light shine on
them and their despicable behavior. Send them all to the Hague.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kicked recommended and bookmarked. Great research, leveymg!
:kick:
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
29. Excellent thread. k & r nt
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sattahipdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
30. The Past Is Gone. The Future Never Comes. There Is Only Now!
When people die you get more money


Former director of the CIAs Counterterrorist Center Cofer Black tells
the 9/11 Commission: Unfortunately, when Americans get killed, it would
translate into additional resources. Its a constant track either you run
out, or people die, when people die you get more money. He says this at
the end of his prepared statement in a section dealing with what he says is
a lack of funds at the CIA for counterterrorism. 9/11 Commission, 4/13/2004

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a04...


Jeremy Scahill
Blackwater: CIA Assassins
http://rebelreports.com /

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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
31. Another K&R-congratulations on assembling the truth Mark
"Why isn't J. Coffer Black a household name? He should have recognition with we that know our BFEE" (started 10-3-07)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Mark does the best work on this topic at DU.
:toast:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. k i c k
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##



This week is our third quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. This is so frightening.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
35. Guys like Black kill with no remorse
They have freed themselves from moral constraints and are true believers in the myth of America.
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AusDem Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
36. apologies to any balding, heavy-set 50yo white men
but why do they seem to always be at the forefront of these crazy neocon right-wing groups (ie the republican party)? sorry, i should engage in racial profiling, but just saying,
that guy is like a cross between dick cheney and karl rove except that he commanded a private mercenary army.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Because part of the right wng's platform since time immemorial
has been white supremacy. It doesn't really go away, it just gets spun into different forms. Eric Prince, like Palin, is a Dominionist and they are also white supremacists.
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
39. Excellent post, leveymg.
Thanks.

k/r
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
40. that is one substantial post. you own this story. kudos. rec.
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troubledamerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
41. Photos -- Cofer Black, Karl Rove, Michael Hayden = all the same person?
They each look like central casting for the role of Pillsbury Doughboy.

They each look like Baby Mask Torturer from Terry Gilliam's "Brazil" =

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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #41
97. They each look like Baby Mask Torturer from Terry Gilliam's "Brazil"
They look like Michael Palin????
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pollo poco Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
43. thank you for this, K&R, N/T
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
44. You say Derwish was a possible double agent, and that he had a direct link to 9/11.
On what do you base those assumptions?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #44
52. He was used by the CIA/FBI/NSA to recruit, track, and monitor the others
We'll never know how much he knew all those years he operated within CIA-sponsored Jihadist groups about those who were manipulating him, because he's dead.

The FBI had been watching Derwish and a group of militants living in the Boston area since the mid-1990s. His identity and activities were well known to US intelligence. See,

Kamal Derwish Kamal Derwish was a participant or observer in the following events: .... The letter is assigned to FBI agent Edward Needham, the only Buffalo agent at this ...
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=kamal_d... - Cached - Similar

Complete 911 Timeline: Possible Al-Qaeda-Linked Moles or Informants Some GIA moles are turned into agent provocateurs. .... 6/26/2004] Apparently, al-Qaeda recruiter Kamal Derwish also works at the same Boston taxi company, ...
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline ... - Cached - Similar

Derwish is an important piece of the 9/11 puzzle because he was the American conduit between a key USS Cole planner, Bin Laden, and the Lackawana 6 cell which he created. An excellent overview of the role played by such operatives:

setting people up is not limited to John Ashcroft's Justice Department and Robert Mueller's FBI -- the Pentagon wants to get in on the action with something called P2OG, or Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group. P2OG would roll together CIA and military covert ops personnel (a "robust, global cadre of retirees, reservists and others who are trained and qualified to serve on short notice, including expatriates") who will work to "stimulate reactions" among those deemed terrorists by the Bushites. After setting up so-called terrorists the US military would "counterattack," i.e., kill them (no messy extradition or legal procedures required; think Kamal Derwish, a US citizen, killed in Yemen by the judge, jury, and executioner of a CIA-launched Hellfire missile for the crime of riding in a car with Qaed Salim Sinan al-Harethi, supposedly the "mastermind" behind the alleged al-Qaeda attack on the USS Cole).

If you think P2OG would be confined to faraway lands where terrorists run free, think again -- and take note of the above-mentioned integration of the CIA and FBI currently underway across America. If Mossad can off its enemies in America, why not the CIA? If onetime CIA director Bush Senior can give a wink and a nod to Pinochet's Operation Condor -- which resulted in the car bombing murders of Chilean dissident Orlando Letelier and American co-worker Ronni Moffitt -- why not carte blanche for the all-American P2OG from Maine to California?

Consider Operation CHAOS, the illegal snooping by the CIA on law-abiding American citizens in the late 60s (in direct violation of their charter). As Verne Lyon writes, "n the classified document creating the DOD the scope of its activities was to 'exercise centralized responsibility for the direction, support, and coordination of clandestine operational activities within the United States,'" activities kept secret from Congress and the hoodwinked American people. In other words, we have no clear idea of the full extent of Operation CHAOS covert ops (if these were anything like CIA ops elsewhere, people not only lost their jobs, but often their lives).

Beyond the shores of America, the CIA financed and encouraged the torture, disappearance, and murder of "socialists and communists" (i.e., people who disagreed with US-supported ruling elites and military dictatorships) in Guatemala, Indonesia, the Dominican Republic, Greece, Bolivia, Chile, and elsewhere. Keep in mind that the current crop of far right wing types in the Bush White House and Pentagon sharpened their teeth on Iran-Contra, a covert op with CIA participation (two CIA agents, Clair George and Duane Clarridge were indicted for lying to Congress in the scandal).

Finally, it pays to remember REX 84, the CIA-inspired plan concocted by the NSC's Oliver North and FEMA (the Federal Emergency Management Agency) calling for the suspension of the Constitution under a number of scenarios (such as war) and included the establishment of 50 State Defense Forces, to be composed of members of local law enforcement and military reserve agencies, who would round up and detain political dissenters (for more on REX 84, see Ross Gelbspan, Break-ins, Death Threats, and the FBI, South End Press).

As the expeditious passage of the USA PATRIOT Act (USAPA) demonstrates, the Bush administration is serious about the surveillance of those they consider political enemies. Since not many phantom al-Qaeda terrorists are using the internet (regardless of what "US officials" say about internet cafes in Peshawar) or phones to plot their nefarious deeds, the logical conclusion is the FBI and CIA will use USAPA primarily against American citizens. As with COINTELPRO and Operation CHAOS, the idea is to "disrupt, misdirect, discredit, and neutralize" (as J. Edgar Hoover put it) the opposition with an onslaught of wiretaps, undercover plants, agent provocateurs, poison pen letters, black bag jobs, and other scurrilous tactics. - http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo02012003.html

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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #52
96. Well, get back to us when you have some kind of evidence of that.
Makes for a neat story though.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #96
102. Here's some additional information on that
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 02:43 PM by leveymg
Another piece came out today. CIA interrogators conducted mock executions of a high-value detainee named al-Nashiri, who was an attendee at the early January 2000 AQ summit in Kuala Lumpur at which 9/11 and the Cole bombing were planned out. http://www.newsweek.com/id/213188

Al-Nashiri is one of the four surviving detainees who CIA acknowledged were waterboarded. He was captured several weeks before before Kamal Derwish and al-Harethi were killed on November 4, 2002 when a Predator missile destroyed the SUV they were riding in.

There are a couple things that are potentially significant about this. First, Nashiri may have been the last person who Derwish and al-Harethi talked to. Nashiri was in CIA custody, and Derwish and al-Hariri were on their way to pick him up. According to Suskin's One Percent Doctrine, an unnamed passenger in the vehicle was on the sat-phone with al Nashiri at the time the missile struck. Al-Jazira reported on 11/15/2002 that the missile was launched from a military helicopter and the sat phone was found in the wreckage.

Other reports say that US intelligence had been monitoring Derwish's phone for a long time. Hersh says for weeks. http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?021223fa_fact Others indicate he had been the subject of electronic monitoring for years. His whereabouts after his meeting with bin Laden in August are murky.

Another thing that stands out. Al-Harethi is supposed to have been the primary USS Cole planner. There is surprisingly little out there about him before the day of his death. I can't find any record that he attended the Kuala Lumpur meeting where al-Nashiri, al-Midhar and al-Hazmi are supposed are reported to have mapped out that operation with bin Attash and some others. I'm not sure what the significance of this is yet, but it seems worth running down some more.


Early October 2002: Al-Qaeda Leader Al-Nashiri Arrested in UAE

High-ranking al-Qaeda leader Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri is captured in the United Arab Emirates (UAE). Al-Nashiri is believed to have played a role in the 1998 African embassy bombings (see 10:35-10:39 a.m., August 7, 1998), attended a 9/11 planning summit in Malaysia in 2000 (see January 5-8, 2000), was one of the masterminds of the 2000 USS Cole bombing (see October 12, 2000), and planned the 2002 bombing of the French oil tanker Limburg (see October 6, 2002). Said to be chief of al-Qaedas operations in the Persian Gulf region, he is taking flight lessons in the remote UAE region of Umm Al-Qaiwain when he is arrested by local authorities and then turned over to the CIA. An unknown number of other al-Qaeda suspects are arrested with him, but apparently they are considered less important and are not handed to the CIA as well. Most reports indicate he is arrested on November 8, 2002, about two weeks before the first media leaks about his arrest. However, US News and World Report will later claim that he was arrested even earlier, early in October 2002. Al-Nashiri soon broke; he even let officials listen in as he called his associates. This leads to intelligence on Qaed Salim Sinan al-Harethi, a top al-Qaeda operative, and the US assassinates him with a missile strike on November 3, 2002, after trailing him for about two weeks (see November 3, 2002). Al-Nashiri will remain in secret CIA prisons until 2006 and then will be transfered to the Guantanamo Bay prison (see September 2-3, 2006).
Entity Tags: Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri


Also, see, relevant entry in Suskind's One percent Doctrine -

1. The one percent doctrine: deep inside America's pursuit of its ... - Google Books Result
by Ron Suskind - 2006 - Political Science - 367 pages
Among the dead, the CIA soon found out, was Kamal Derwish, the inspirational friend and guide to ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0743271092...

Was Derwish talking with al-Nashiri, or was al-Harethi on the phone when the missile launched by a Predator slammed into their jeep in Yemen? Suskin says it was a passenger in al-Harethi's vehicle that was proceeding to a rendevous with al-Nashiri set up by the CIA (was Derwish's sat-phone bugged? You'd better believe it) What was the nature of that relationship between the three? The USS Cole and the Kuala Lumpur nexus again.



Mark
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
45. Privatized Ops. Privatized Intel. Privatized Assassination.
And no oversight.



What else is there?
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. authoritarianism
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 01:11 AM by upi402
corporatism
oligarchy
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #45
61. Exactly. n/t
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
49. kr
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
50. K&R
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
51. This story is misleading - Blackwater did not run the Predator program
Blackwater did not operate the drones - their job was to load the weapons and guard the bases. They did not pick the targets or actually execute the strikes. They were support personnel only.

The divisions operations are carried out at hidden bases in Pakistan and Afghanistan, where the companys contractors assemble and load Hellfire missiles and 500-pound laser-guided bombs on remotely piloted Predator aircraft, work previously performed by employees of the Central Intelligence Agency. They also provide security at the covert bases, the officials said.

Blackwater is not involved in selecting targets or actual strikes. The targets are selected by the C.I.A., and employees at the agencys headquarters in Langley, Va., pull the trigger remotely. Only a handful of the agencys employees actually work at the Predator bases in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the current and former employees said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/us/21intel.html
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Yes, but Cofer Black did. And, he was Vice Chairman of Blackwater.
Do you grasp the connection?
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. And he got a contract for his guys loading bombs
and guarding the bases.

The fact remains that it was a CIA run program where all the decisions remained firmly in the hands of the US government.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #51
57. .....not so ifficult to see how this is very plausible ....
"Blackwater Vice Chairman, Cofer Black, former Director of the CIA Counter-Terrorism Center from 1999-2002,"
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. But the OP states it as a fact with no evidence
there are many plausible things that never happen - hang around any conspiracy site if you have any doubts.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. Many of us know
the person who authored the OP, by way of his consistently high-quality contributions to this site. Some of us know him from contexts beyond DU. And we respect him as a person, and recognize the value of his work.

One of the good things about his efforts, like anyone who works to tell the truth, is that their efforts always get reactions from those who would seek to distract from them, with nonsense such as "hang around any conspiracy site." Thanks for that.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #60
74. He clearly confuses two separate issues.
We have the CIA Predator program and the CIA contract for BW to help assassinate top al-Qaeda leaders. There is no evidence linking the two.

The CIA's relationship with BW needs to be investigated and curtailed. That being said, I have no problem with the CIA's Predator program run by government workers. I have no problem with contractors loading bombs and guarding bases. I have huge problems with contractors making decisions and pulling the trigger. The issues need to be kept separate.



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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #74
78. Blackwater had CIA contracts for both assassinations and the Predator
Why are you tring to draw false distinctions? If you're saying that these were two different contracting programs, you're probably right. But, BW was awarded both contracts, and Cofer Black designed and managed both programs.

What's the issue?
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #78
85. Because you have not provided any proof
you have connected plausible dots but you certainly have not proved that the two were linked.

Black was not running the Predator program when BW got their contract to load bombs. You have not shown that BW personnel were responsible for operational decisions.

It is all conjecture on your part - it's my only point.

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #85
90. You don't think that linkage is established by the same man running both sides of the same program?
If that isn't prima facie evidence of a significant linkage, I don't know -- what do you think? What might think might satisfy your criteria for meaningful relationship or, in legal terms, direct or proximate liability? Maybe, we're trying to make different points.

Blackwater got their State Dept contract, which is far larger in $$$$s, when Black was running DOS Counter-Terrorism. That was his baby. Mere months after CIA outsourced service functions for Predator, another program he had managed, he left gov't employment and went over to Blackwater. That's not a significant enough connection for you? What sort of standard are you applying, that please explain what are the necessary and sufficient conditions to make this adequately "linked" together?
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #90
92. So show me that after Black left the CIA
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 11:18 AM by hack89
that all his policies and procedures remained in place. Name his successor and prove that he had BW personnel making operational decisions for him. A simple request don't you think?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #92
93. His successor as Director of CTC was
Jose A. Rodrguez, who took things to an even greater heights with implementation of the torture and mopping-up program. Please read this, and we'll talk about him:

leveymg's Journal - Why did Bush-Cheney and the CIA Destroy the ...May 20, 2009 ... Jose A. Rodriguez. It was Rodriguez who had been in charge of the unit, the Director's Counter-Terrorism Center (CIA/CTC), that actually ...
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/415 - Cached - Similar
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #93
95. And who were the BW contractors next to him
making operational decisions. Stop dancing around the issue - you are claiming that BW was running "multiple wet ops". Prove it. Hard evidence - not "Cofer Black, Cofer Black, lalalala." That's all I am asking for - something more than pure conjecture.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #95
99. Are you asking for the names of the BW operatives who worked for Cofer Black?
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 02:05 PM by leveymg
Several other retired ranking CIA officers also worked at Blackwater, or for Total Intelligence Solutions, a company Chaired by Mr. Black that is reported to have ties with the Blackwater (Xe) group of companies:

This from SourceWatch:

Total Intelligence Solutions, LLC
From SourceWatch
Jump to: navigation, search
Total Intelligence Solutions, LLC is an intelligence gathering and analysis company launched by Cofer Black and Robert Richer in February of 2007, which Black stated in a media release "brings the intelligence gathering methodology and analytical skills traditionally honed by CIA operatives directly to the board room."<1>

Founding

Black, with a 28 year career at the CIA in the Directorate of Operations ending as Director of the CIA Counterterrorist Center, along with Richer, former Associate Deputy Director for Operations at the CIA, merged The Black Group, Terrorism Research Center, Inc., and Technical Defense to "bring CIA-style intelligence services to Fortune 500" companies.<1>

"By fusing the resources of these three companies together, we can offer an established worldwide network of experts who can assess the global economic, social and political sensitivities that Fortune 500 companies need to navigate," Richer stated in a 2007 media release.<1>

Cofer Black and COO Enrique Prado both hold positions at Blackwater USA and Robert Richer left his position there as VP for Intelligence to run TIS. On its website TIS states that "Despite media reports to the contrary, Mr. Richer departed Total Intelligence Solutions in February 2008. The TIS leadership team appreciates Mr. Richer's prior contributions to the company and the departure was amicable for all parties involved."<2>

Though billed as non-Blackwater company, TIS is the merger of three companies, one of which is the Terrorism Research Center, which is owned by Blackwater founder and owner, Erik Prince.<3>

In 2007 TIS was a member of the International Peace Operations Association, with David Hammond from the law firm Crowell & Moring LLP representing the company as chair of IPOA's General Counsels Committee.<4> As of February 2009, it is no longer listed as a corporate member.<5>



NOTICE: I am NOT claiming that any of the above-named persons or third-parties associated with TIS were running "wet ops." I am reporting that Cofer Black directed the operations of CIA/CTC and later, Blackwater at a time that both have been reported by reliable media sources to have been involved in collaborative efforts to plan and carry out targeted killings related to the GWOT. Black is on the public record as Chairman of TIS, with the others named having worked there with him.

Beyond that, I have no further information to provide to you at this time.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #99
104. So the bottom line is we don't really know what Blackwater did
the only hard information we have on a BW contract is they loaded bombs and guarded bases. We know they had a contract to help the CIA track down and kill al Queda but we don't know what that actually entailed - were they providing analyst support or trigger men? Were they running the show or the CIA?

I think that the CIA contracts with BW should be investigated by Congress - precisely because we know so few real facts. I share your abhorrence to civilian companies doing things that are best left to the government - especially such things as waging war.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #104
110. As for operational details, there is a great deal we don't know yet.
On that, we agree, as well as our shared abhorrence for civilian companies doing things that are best left to the government - especially such things as waging war. Very well said.

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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. Thanks for the interesting discussion
I think that we really are not that far apart on the issue. Have a good evening.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #99
119. P.S. - Der Speigel names the head of the BW "hitman" squad
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 03:47 PM by leveymg
Follow-up to the line of conversation, yesterday. Der Spiegel has named A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard, former CIA Executive Director of Operations (02/98-09/04), as the principal manager of the "Killing Program" allegedly set up within Blackwater. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,644405...

Krongard has been identified elsewhere as the primary CIA conduit to Blackwater founder, Erik Prince. In an interview earlier this week, Jeremy Scahill stated that Krongard started steering CIA contracts to Prince in early 2002, at a time the two were in Afghanistan. http://www.democracynow.org/2009/8/20/reports_private_m... Krongard, however, did not establish a formal, public relationship with BW until September 2007, when he was appointed to the company's advisory board. See, http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3866602&page=1 According to the Speigel report, Blackwater was contracted to kill al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, which would have been at a time Krongard was still employed by CIA, at least two years before the NYT reported the CIA-BW assassination program was started in 2004.



Buzzy Krongard with Blackwater bodyguards

If these reports are accurate, Krongard would have been acting in a covert operational capacity that is not normally consistent with his administrative position at the Agency. If Krongard was in fact working for Blackwater previous to his appointment as a board advisor on September 5, 2007, it would have been in some other, still unrevealed, capacity. The Blackwater assassinations program was not revealed to Congressional oversight, which is a serious violation of law. Furthermore, it is normally illegal for an active duty CIA officer to have outside employment, particularly to maintain any direct, outside financial interests with an Agency contractor.

08/22/2009
Speigel.com
Death Squad
Blackwater Accused of Creating "Killing Program"


A memo obtained by SPIEGEL indicates that cooperation between the CIA and private security firm Blackwater was deeper than previously known. SPIEGEL has uncovered further details about a plan to set up squads for targeted killings of suspected al-Qaida leadership in Afghanistan.

On Wednesday, the CIA disclosed that it had hired private security contractor Blackwater to kill senior al-Qaida members. The assassination-program has since drawn strong criticism in Washington. However, SPIEGEL has learned that the level of cooperation between the CIA and the paid mercenaries at Blackwater was even deeper than previously known.


In a memo obtained by SPIEGEL, two former employees describe details of cooperation between the firm and the intelligence agency that then-Vice President Dick Cheney asked the CIA not to disclose to the United States Congress. Even today, members of Congress do not have a complete image of the activities Blackwater undertook on behalf of the government.

The intelligence service commissioned Blackwater and its subsidiaries to transport terror suspects from Guantanamo to interrogations at secret prison camps in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Uzbekistan. The paper identifies aircraft movements and unveils how the flights were disguised. The memo says: "The CIA hired Blackwater to conduct extraordinary renditions". And: "Blackwater flew the rendition targets from Fort Perry and Cuba to Kandahar, Afghanistan."

Blackwater also supported the CIA with other controversial activities during the Bush years, the memo states. "The CIA hired Blackwater to conduct targeted killings in Afghanistan," it reads. In July, the new CIA chief appointed by President Barack Obama, Leon Panetta first discussed an "assassination program" with members of Congress in a classified meeting.

The aim of the program was to recruit special commandos who could be trained to conduct assassinations of al-Qaida leadership. Over the years though, CIA officials told members of Senate, the program never really managed to get out of the planning stage.

A "Hitman"

Now, further details have emerged. The memo names five participants who were responsible for building the assassination team, including a member of the Blackwater's paratrooper team and an employee of Blackwater Security Consulting, who, according to the memo was meant to be used as a "hitman." The most important person named in the memo is the former third from the top at the CIA, ex-executive director Alvin Bernard Krongard. "Krongard set up the teams," the paper claims. After he left the CIA, Krongard switched to Blackwater's advisory board.





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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #60
113. Thank you for that
Yes, indeed.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. Fact: Cofer Black was in charge of the Predator drone program. Fact: Black was VC of Blackwater
What facts, exactly, are not in evidence? You imply this is conspiracy theory. If we agree that those are facts, then you must be complaining about something else. Please tell us, what is the theory that you are objecting to here?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. Keep the focus
on your OP. Don't get distracted with nonsense.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #62
71. Not a fact from the OP:
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 10:34 AM by hack89
This report of Blackwater/Xe operating the Predator program does not square with the claim heard elsewhere in today's news that nobody was actually killed by Blackwater's assassination program.


BW did not "operate" the Predator program. It not true. They loaded bombs and guarded bases.


The OP mixes two separate issues -the CIA Predator program and the BW assassination program. - very sloppy research
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #71
81. What's the very next sentence in that paragraph?
You quoted me out of context. The full paragraph:

"This report of Blackwater/Xe operating the Predator program does not square with the claim heard elsewhere in today's news that nobody was actually killed by Blackwater's assassination program. It's gotta be one or the other, unless Blackwater was running multiple wet ops."

Stop being pejorative. I'll engage you on the question of degree of separation between the Agency and its private contractors - in this case, zero degrees of separation - the same guy was running both programs that functionally overlapped. Killing people, and killing people from the air using robot aircraft. If you want to talk about something meaningful, like the ethics, politics, legality, and efficacy of such programs, fine. We'll talk. But, stop sniping at me and missing the bigger point.



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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #81
89. Another unsupported conclusion
there is no evidence that Blackwater was running anything. It is clear they were not running the Predator program and there are no facts on how the assassination contract was structured - what proof to you have that the CIA did not retain operational control of the BW operatives?

If Cofer Black is your only answer then I suggest you find some collaborating evidence. He is a bad guy - I got it.


Truth and accuracy is a bigger point to me.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #59
68. Felt the need to come out of the Dungeon for this one, eh? n/t
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 10:09 AM by Subdivisions
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #68
72. CTs have a unique attraction I find irresistible. nt
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #72
79. So, you're calling leveymg a cospiracy theorist? n/t
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #79
86. Do I need to explain "inside joke" to you? nt
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #59
123. Knowing the OP as I do and his fact checking history over the years, well, you don't have much to
offer aside fom ad hominem distractions, do you?

Kick.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
54. This is a great example
of the highest quality of work found on DU. I take my hat off to you. Simply outstanding. Thank you.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #54
69. You know when it draws Dungeon operatives out, it must be good. +1. n/t
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #69
77. We always find the unsupported leaps to conclusion
a skill highly tuned in the Dungeon.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. The problem is you consider ANY discussion that strays from the OCT
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 10:50 AM by Subdivisions
unworthy of consideration and worthy of your scorn. It's as if you think there are no other possibilities of what actually happened on 9/11 other than that offered by the bush administration.

Why don't you slither back into the Dungeon. Knowing DU on the subject of 9/11, this excellent OP will be dumped there any moment now, despite the +175 recs. Funny how 9/11 threads don't get un-recced and often top the Greatest Page before being dumped into your domain.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #80
87. I pointed out a flaw in his conclusion.
that can be supported by news reports.

If you think that unsupported conclusions will reveal the truth, well good luck..
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #54
139. Indeed it is.
But where's the rest of the Bush apologists?
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
56. In that photo he looks like and has an aura mix of both Cheney and Rove....creepy
:puke:
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TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
58. k&r
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Becky72 Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
64. I think Bin Laden is a goner too
He hasn't used videotapes since late 2001. He uses audio. Anyone can fake a voice with audio.
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #64
94. anyone can fake a video too! nt
:hi:
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
65. kicking for justice
nt
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
66. The contradiction that goes unanswered
Do you wish you had done more?

A lot of people ask, Dont you feel responsible for 9/11? Absolutely not. We were the only ones in the fight. We held the line and fought as hard as we could with the resources we had. Looking back, I cant think of a damn thing we could have done that would have changed anything.

Cofer Black, Out of the Shadows


The CIA told us that al Qaeda was one of the most serious threats the US faced. Yet the very same CIA withheld from the FBI the fact that two ID'ed al Qaeda operatives were in the US. The withholding lasted from January 2000 through August 2001. The CIA obstructed the FBI's USS Cole investigation in the process.

To date, nobody at the CIA has explained this contradiction. Instead they brag about how patriotic they are and how unfair it is to hold them accountable for torturing detainees.

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #66
91. Yes. That is the central point.
Hit it spot-on, square in the middle of the central unanswered question. Thank you.
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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #66
108. To date, nobody at the CIA has explained this contradiction
See post #106. While you can put all of the facts back together again, in almost 8 years the CIA has never explained any of this.
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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #108
121. K&R
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Bryan Sacks Donating Member (732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #108
137. Further on this contradiction
There has to be something more than meets the eye going on here. Specifically, the supposed cooperation that existed between the FBI and CIA during the investigation of the Cole bombing just doesn't square with some comments made by CIA officials who had knowledge of the investigation.

History Commons is reporting that a document was recently found in the National Archives that proves the CIA knew that Khallad bin Attash, considered the mastermind of the USS Cole bombing, was present at the Malaysia summit in January 2000. This directly connects him with Almihdhar and the other hijackers who attended, and would obviously have been of great interest to the FBI during its investigation into the Cole bombing that commenced later that year.

http://hcgroups.wordpress.com/2009/08/30/new-discovered... /

IIRC, Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi would go on from the summit to live in San Diego at a residence owned by an FBI asset, who reportedly passed along their first names to his FBI handler months later, but not their last names. Even among official story skeptics, it is widely held that the FBI never knew their whereabouts in the run-up to 9/11, even though the CIA was aware that they had US visas for some time.

Returning to the new article and summarizing a bit here, HC concludes (understandably) that the CIA acted in 'bad faith' by not sharing all it knew with the FBI:

The number of occasions on which the CIA failed to pass on the information and its gravityal-Qaeda had just blown up a destroyer, killing 17indicate that this was not just some minor oversight by the agency, but that it deliberately withheld this information from the FBI and that it acted in bad faith. The reason for this is not yet 100% clear, although the CIA was withholding information about both Almihdhar and Khallad in Kuala Lumpur, and the logical conclusion is that its actions regarding the two main were linked.

Further bad faith by the CIA is shown by its attitude after 9/11, when it claimed that it thought it had told the FBI of the Khallad identification at the time it happened. For example, Counterterrorist Center Director Cofer Black told the 9/11 Congressional Inquiry:

I want to be as clear as I can be that FBI agents and analysts had full access to information we acquired about the Cole attack. For example, we ran a joint operation with the FBI to determine if a Cole suspect was in a Kuala Lumpur surveillance photo. I want to repeat-it was a joint operation. The FBI had access to that information from the beginning. More specifically, our records establish that the Special Agents from the FBIs New York Field Office who were investigating the USS Cole attack reviewed the information about the Kuala Lumpur photo in late January 2001.

Yet on 13 July 2001, Tom Wilshire, a CIA manager involved in the withholding of information about Almihdhar from the FBI, wrote to his superiors at the CIA and asked them if he could tell the FBI that the source had identified Khallad in a Kuala Lumpur photo. This is doubly bizarre. First, the fact that Wilshire was asking for permission to tell the bureau shows he thought the bureau did not already have the information, undercutting Blacks contention the CIA thought the FBIs Cole investigators knew of the identification. Second, the information was generated from a joint FBI/CIA source at a joint debriefing, meaning that it was FBI information just as much as it was CIA information, and no approval from CIA managers was required to share it with the bureau.

The CIA continued to withhold the information about Khallad until 30 August, when it sent a message to the FBI saying, We wish to advise you that, during a previously scheduled meeting with our joint source, Khallad was identified in a surveillance photograph.



So among the many questions all of this engenders, chief among them for me is: Why would the FBI need to be brought up to speed on Khallad if the FBI had agents present at the joint briefing? Why also would a CIA manager think FBI needed to be brought up to speed? This seeming contradiction raises questions about the true nature of that 'joint investigation' and, in my view, should at least get us to wonder whether the FBI's claim to ignorance about the whereabouts of the hijackers can be sustained.

There are other elements of the 9/11 backstory which also give us good reason to suspect the FBI knew more than it is thought to have known about Almihdhar and Alhazmi, but none of this explains the very odd behavior of Wilshire here. There must be more here to learn.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
67. Now, you know they wouldn't do anything like that!
Do I need the sarcasm thingie?

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
83. We're still EXECUTING "terrorists" + women and children via Drone Predators.
Doesn't it make you PROUD to be AN AMERICAN to know we endorse such vile and chicken shit form of execution? :(

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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
84. Don't get Distracted by Some Here.... great informative Post
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #84
118. yep - there are a few powerful Dems who are in it up to their ears with Poppy Bush and
some of their followers will try and shoot down attacks on BushInc in order to protect their 'guy/guys'.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
100. K&R
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
101. Being the son poppy never had and serving as an intern for him, Erik Prince...
was well positioned inside the thoughts of RW neo-crusaders, mercenary ideologies of death and submission on all sides, family wealth and time-line to annex and acquisition, etc, as to provide the missing 'why' when memos from the field tracking these 9/11 Saudi Kingdom persona's from flight school to flight school with bags of cash and few points of interest were denied, not factored into the matrix expeditiously and thus contributing to MIHOP scenarios. I've thought since the day I first seen it; that that look on bush's face in kindergarten was one of,

"God Damn It! They really made it happen............"
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
103. And of course Brewster Jennings was exposed by the Bush Administration in the summer of 2001
per Sibel Edmonds.

Thanks for the thread, leveymg. :thumbsup:
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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
106. So who really is Cofer Black. The attacks on 9/11 reeal a lot about Cofer Black.
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 04:52 PM by rschop
So who really is Cofer Black. The attacks on 9/11 reveal a lot about who Cofer Black really is.

In April 2001, FBI Agent Ali Soufan sent a request to the CIA and George Tenet for any information the CIA had on any al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur in January 2000 or information the CIA had on Walid bin Attash. We now know from the DOJ IG report, pages 183-184, that Ali Soufans request went to both CIA Bin Laden deputy chief, Tom Wilshire, and to CIA officer Clark Shannon. But we now also know that right after the CIA received this request they moved this very high level CIA officer, Tom Wilshire, from his position as deputy chief of the Bin Laden unit, to liaison to the FBI ITOS unit, reporting to Michael Rolince. It is clear that Wilshires first task at the FBI was to get FBI Agent Dina Corsi to set up meeting in New York with the FBI Cole bombing investigators on June 11, 2001 to find out what the FBI criminal investigators had found out about Mihdhar and Hazmi and the al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur, in January 2000. This was the information that the CIA had been keeping secret from the FBI criminal units since January 5, 2000, when Wilshire first blocked Doug Millers cable on Mihdhar from going to the FBI criminal investigators.

Since Wilshire had been moved over to the FBI ITOS unit in mid-May 2001 from his position as deputy chief of the bin Laden unit at the CIA, a move that would have required the approval of the very top people at both the CIA and the FBI, including top CIA managers Cofer Black and George Tenet, and with the concurrence of top FBI managers FBI Director Louis Freeh and Michael Rolince, head of the FBI ITOS, only to find out what information the Cole investigators had uncovered, it is now clear that in fact this move of Wilshire was just another part of a massive criminal conspiracy to hide the Kuala Lumpur meetings from the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing. This move clearly indicated that this huge conspiracy, that ultimately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the attacks on 9/11, included the very highest managers at both the CIA and FBI.

It is now clear that Wilshire had been moved to the FBI primarily to find out what the FBI Cole bombings investigators had found out about the Kuala Lumpur meeting and the fact that Khalid al-Mihdhar, Nawaf al-Hazmi had attended this meeting to plan the Cole bombing with Walid Bin Attash, in their search for Bin Attash. This was the information the CIA had been keeping as one of their most deep dark secrets from January 4, 2001 when Bin Attash was positively identified in a photo taken of him at the Kuala Lumpur meeting.

This June 11, 2001 meeting in New York, took place between the FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi and CIA officer Clark Shannon and the FBI Cole bombing investigators, including FBI Agent Ali Soufans assistant on the Cole bombing investigation, Special Agent Steve Bongardt. These investigators were shown three photos of Mihdhar and Hazmi taken at the Kuala Lumpur meeting while they were planning the Cole bombing with Walid Bin Attash, by Dina Corsi, photos that Wilshire had obtained from the CIA.

CIA officer Shannon then asked Bongardt and his team of FBI investigators if they recognized anyone in these three photos. The only people we now know for sure that were in these photos were Khalid al-Mihdhar, and Nawaf al-Hazmi.

When shown this photos from Kuala Lumpur, Bongardt asked who are these people, and since you are asking us, the Cole bombing investigators, what do these people have to do with the Cole bombing and our investigation of the Cole bombing?

Both FBI Agent Dina Corsi and CIA officer Clark Shannon told FBI Agent Steve Bongardt that they would not give him any information on the people in these photos due to the wall that prevented NSA information from going to FBI criminal investigators.

But we now know that this was just a ruse for the following reasons;

First the CIA and the FBI HQ all ready had ample proof that both Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the east Africa bombings, and knew that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were part of the Bin Ladens al Qaeda terrorist organization. Since the east Africa bombings were a crime that had killed over 200 people including many Americans, and Bin Laden had already been indicted for this crime, any NSA information on Mihdhar and Hazmi could have gone to the FBI Cole criminal investigators with no restrictions. The FBI already had a warrant for Bin Ladens arrest based on information from the east Africa bombings.

Second both CIA officer Clark Shannon, and FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi, Wilshire and many other people at the CIA already knew that Walid Bin Attach had been at the Kuala Lumpur meeting on January 5-8, 2001 planning the Cole bombing with both Mihdhar and Hazmi. Corsi tells the DOJ IG investigators that she was made aware that Bin Attash had been at that Kuala Lumpur meeting with Mihdhar well before the June 11, 2001 meeting with the Cole bombing investigators, which tied Mihdhar directly to the mastermind of the Cole bombing. Email in the DOJ IG report shows that both Clark Shannon and Tom Wilshire, the CIA officer that set up the New York meeting, and in fact many people at the CIA, were also aware that Bin Attash had been at the Kuala Lumpur meeting with Mihdhar and Hazmi planning the Cole bombing and all of these people knew that these three were long time al Qaeda terrorists.

The bombing of the USS Cole was yet another crime that had resulted in the deaths on 17 American US Navy sailors, another criminal act. This meant that there was no reason what-so-ever at the June 11, 2001 meeting in New York to withhold any information known by the CIA or FBI HQ on Mihdhar and Hazmi from the FBI criminal investigators, particularly the investigators on the Cole bombing. Since whatever intelligence information on Mihdhar, Hazmi and bin Attash had resulted in now well documented evidence by the CIA of a crime, the terrorist bombing of the USS Cole, there was no longer any reason that any information on these three terrorists could not be turned over to the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing investigation.

Walid Bin Attash had been positively identified by the CIA in January 4, 2001 in photos taken of him at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, by the CIA/FBI joint source and the CIA and FBI HQ knew that Bin Attash had already been identified by the FBI Cole bombing investigators as one of the masterminds of the Cole bombing.

Mihdhar and Hazmi had already been identified in photos also taken at the same meeting, and the NSA information given to the CIA, information from people connected to the east Africa bombings and to the al Qaeda terrorist organization, had stated that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were going to this al Qaeda planning meeting. This clearly connected both Mihdhar and Hazmi to the planning of the Cole bombing. Corsi, Wilshire and Shannon and the CIA including Cofer Black and George Tenet were well aware of all of this information prior to the June 11, 2001 meeting with the FBI Cole bombings investigators. Even if intelligence information could legally be withheld from the FBI criminal investigators until evidence that a crime had been committed, once it was established that crime had been committed there was no longer any legitimate reason to hide this information from the FBI criminal investigators investigating that crime.

In fact withholding material information on the criminals that have taken part in a crime from the FBI criminal investigators investigating this crime is itself a crime.

On July 5 2001, according to the DOJ IG report, Wilshire sent email back to his CTC managers, mangers that must have included Black and Tenet, indicating that he felt that the people who were at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, Khalid al-Mihdhar, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Salem al-Hazmi the al Qaeda terrorists on AA 77 that hit the Pentagon, were now connected to the massive warnings of a huge al Qaeda attack that the CIA had been receiving since April 2001. SEE the DOJ IG report, July 5, 2001.

In July 13, 2001 email back to his CTC mangers, Wilshire requested permission to transfer the information he had on the Kuala Lumpur meeting and the people who had attended this meeting planning the Cole bombing, to the FBI. See Substitution for the testimony of John, aka Tom Wilshire, entered into the Moussaoui trial on March 11, 2006, http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exh... /. He did not receive any reply to his request, but this request since it was so sensitive would have had to have been approved by both Cofer Black and George Tenet, meaning this request was denied by these very CTC managers.

In his July 23, 2001, email located in the same documents, on the same site, Wilshire clearly stated that Khalid al-Mihdhar and by association Nawaf al-Hazmi were going to take part on the next big al Qaeda operation. He also asked why no one had responded to his July 13, 2001 request to transfer the Kuala Lumpur information to the FBI Cole bombing investigators. See Substitution for the testimony of John July 23, 2001. Again top CIA mangers did not even reply to his request, indicating again that his request was denied , even while at the same time these very CIA mangers who had denied his request, Tenet and Black were describing to Rice and Clarke in the White House on July 10, 2001, and later to Rumsfeld and Ashcroft on July 17, 2001, a huge al Qaeda attack that was just about to take place inside of the US that would kill thousands of Americans.

So it is now clear that in July 2001 when the top CIA managers, Black and Tenet, were aware that a huge al Qaeda attack was about to take place inside of the US, they had forbidden Tom Wilshire at least twice from turning over the information on the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting to the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing, they very information that would have prevented that attacks on 9/11.

On August 22, 2001, less than one month after Wilshire sent his email to his CTC CIA managers indicating that Mihdhar would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda attack, both Wilshire and Dina Corsi were told by FBI IOS Agent Margaret Gillespie, a FBI agent at the CIA Bin Laden unit, that Mihdhar and Hazmi were found by the INS to be inside of the US. It is now clear that both Wilshire and Corsi knew immediately that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in this massive al Qaeda attack that would kill thousands of Americans.

On August 23, Gillespie had the CIA Bin Laden unit issue a worldwide alert for several al Qaeda terrorists connected with the Cole bombing including Mihdhar and Hazmi, an alert that clearly went right to top of the CIA hierarchy, including Cofer Black and George Tenet. Not only did they and 50-60 other people at the CIA, according to the CIA IG report, and many agents managers at the FBI now know that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US but they all knew they terrorists were in the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack that would kill thousands of Americans.

Yet, not only did all of these people keep this completely secret from the FBI criminal investigators that could have stopped these attacks, it is clear that they allowed Wilshire and Corsi to block the FBI criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi by FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, one of only two FBI investigations that could have found these terrorists in time to have stopped that attacks on 9/11. At the time they were doing this Wilshire, FBI Agent Corsi, Black and Tenet, and many other at both the FBI HQ and CIA clearly knew that the CIA had been hiding the photo of Bin Attash and his identification at the Kuala Lumpur meeting planning the Cole bombing from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team of Cole investigators.

Since this is a crime, and the many people who took part in this crime made it a criminal conspiracy, it is now clear that the CIA working with FBI HQ had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place due to a massive criminal conspiracy, that clearly must have included according to the CIA IG report, both Cofer Black and George Tenet.

The proof for all of this can be found in the official US governments own documents found on the official US government web site for the Moussaoui trial http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exh ... / and www.eventson911.com .

Cofer Black in almost 8 years has never explained why he and George Tenet, hid the information of the Kuala Lumpur meeting, and the names So who really is Cofer Black. The attacks on 9/11 reveal a lot about Cofer Black.

In April 2001, FBI Agent Ali Soufan sent a request to the CIA and George Tenet for any information the CIA had on any al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur in January 2000 or information the CIA had on Walid bin Attash. We now know from the DOJ IG report, pages 183-184, that Ali Soufans request went to both CIA Bin Laden deputy chief, Tom Wilshire, and to CIA officer Clark Shannon. But we now also know that right after the CIA received this request they moved a high level CIA officer Tom Wilshire, from his position as deputy chief of the Bin Laden unit, to liaison to the FBI ITOS unit, reporting to Michael Rolince. It is clear that Wilshires first task at the FBI was to get FBI Agent Dina Corsi to set up meeting with the FBI Cole bombing investigators for June 11, 2001 to find out what the FBI criminal investigators had found out Mihdhar and Hazmi and the al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur, in January 2000. This was the information that the CIA had been keeping secret from the FBI criminal units since January 5, 2000, when Wilshire first blocked Doug Millers cable on Mihdhar from going to the FBI criminal investigators.

Since Wilshire had been moved over to the FBI ITOS unit in mid-May 2001 from his position as deputy chief of the bin Laden unit at the CIA, a move that would have required the approval of the very top people at both the CIA and the FBI, including top CIA managers Cofer Black and George Tenet, and with the concurrence of top FBI managers FBI Director Louis Freeh and Michael Rolince, head of the FBI ITOS, only to find out what information the Cole investigators had uncovered, it is now clear that in fact this move by Wilshire was just another part of this massive criminal conspiracy to hide the Kuala Lumpur meeting from the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing, although this move clearly indicated that this huge conspiracy, that ultimately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the attacks on 9/11, included the very highest managers at both the CIA and FBI.

It is now clear that Wilshire had been moved to the FBI only to find out what the FBI Cole bombings investigators had found out about the Kuala Lumpur meeting and the fact that Khalid al-Mihdhar, Nawaf al-Hazmi had attended this meeting to plan the Cole bombing with Walid Bin Attash, after the CIA received Ali Soufans request and though the FBI Cole investigators had uncovered the identities of Mihdhar and Hazmi in their search for Bin Attash. This was the information the CIA had been keeping as one of their most deep dark secrets from January 4, 2001 when Bin Attash was positively identified in a photo taken of him at the Kuala Lumpur meeting.

This June 11, 2001 meeting in New York, took place between the FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi and CIA officer Clark Shannon and the FBI Cole bombing investigators, including FBI Agent Ali Soufans assistant on the Cole bombing investigation, Special Agent Steve Bongardt and his team of Cole bombing investigators. These investigators were shown three photos of Mihdhar and Hazmi taken at the Kuala Lumpur meeting while they were planning the Cole bombing with Walid Bin Attash, by Dina Corsi that Wilshire had obtained from the CIA.

CIA officer Shannon then asked Bongardt and his team of FBI investigators if they recognized anyone in these three photos.

When Bongardt asked who are these people, and what do they have to do with the Cole bombing and our investigation of the Cole bombing, both FBI Agent Dina Corsi and CIA officer Clark Shannon told FBI Agent Steve Bongardt that they would not give him any information on the people in these photos due to the wall that prevented NSA information from going to FBI criminal investigators.

We now know that this was just a ruse for the following reasons;

First the CIA and the FBI HQ not only had ample proof that both Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the east Africa bombings, but knew that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were part of the Bin Ladens al Qaeda terrorist organization. Since the east Africa bombings were a crime that had killed over 200 people including many Americans, and Bin Laden had already been indicted for this crime, any NSA information on Mihdhar and Hazmi could have gone to the FBI Cole investigators with no restrictions. The FBI already had a warrant for Bin Ladens arrest based on information from the east Africa bombings.

Second both the CIA officer Clark Shannon, and FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi knew that Walid Bin Attach had been at the Kuala Lumpur meeting on January 5-8, 2001 planning the Cole bombing with both Mihdhar and Hazmi. Corsi tells the DOJ IG investigators that she was made aware that Bin Attash had been at that Kuala Lumpur meeting with Mihdhar even before the June 11, 2001 meeting with the Cole bombing investigators which tied Mihdhar directly to the mastermind of the Cole bombing. Email in the DOJ IG report shows that both Clark Shannon and Tom Wilshire, the CIA officer that actually set up the New York meeting, and in fact many people at the CIA, were also aware that Bin Attash had been at the Kuala Lumpur meeting with Mihdhar and Hazmi planning the Cole bombing and knew that all three were long time al Qaeda terrorists.

The bombing of the USS Cole was yet another crime that had resulted in the deaths on 17 American US Navy sailors. This meant that there was no reason what so ever at the June 11, 2001 meeting in New York to withhold any information known by the CIA or FBI HQ on Mihdhar and Hazmi from the FBI criminal investigators, particularly the investigators on the Cole bombing. Since whatever intelligence information on Mihdhar, Hazmi and bin Attash had resulted in now well documented evidence by the CIA of a crime, the terrorist bombing of the USS Cole, there was no longer any reason that any information on these three terrorists could not be turned over to the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing investigation.

Walid Bin Attash had been positively identified by the CIA in January 4, 2001 in photos taken of him at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, by the CIA/FBI joint source and the CIA and FBI HQ knew that Bin Attash had already been identified by the FBI Cole bombing investigators as one of the masterminds of the Cole bombing.

Mihdhar and Hazmi had already been identified in photos also taken at the same meeting, and the NSA information given to the CIA, information from people connected to the east Africa bombings and to the al Qaeda terrorist organization, had stated that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were going to this al Qaeda planning meeting. This clearly connected both Mihdhar and Hazmi to the planning of the Cole bombing. Corsi, Wilshire and Shannon and the CIA including Cofer Black and George Tenet were aware of all of this information prior to the June 11, 2001 meeting with the FBI Cole bombings investigators. Even if intelligence information could legally be withheld from the FBI criminal investigators until evidence that a crime had been committed, once it was established that crime had been committed there was no longer any legitimate reason to hide this information from the FBI criminal investigators investigating that crime. In fact withholding material information on the criminals that have taken part in a crime from the FBI criminal investigators investigating this crime is itself a crime.


On July 5 2001, according to the DOJ IG report, Wilshire sent email back to his CTC managers, mangers that must included Black and Tenet, indicating that he felt that the people who were at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, Khalid al-Mihdhar, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Salem al-Hazmi the al Qaeda terrorists on AA 77 that hit the Pentagon, were now connected to the massive warnings of a huge al Qaeda attack that the CIA had been receiving since April 2001. SEE the DOJ IG report, July 5, 2001.

In July 13, 2001 email back to his CTC mangers, Wilshire requested permission to transfer the information he had on the Kuala Lumpur meeting and the people who had attended this meeting planning the Cole bombing, to the FBI. See Substitution for the testimony of John, aka Tom Wilshire, entered into the Moussaoui trial on March 11, 2006, http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exh... /. He did not receive any reply to his request, but this request since it was so sensitive would have had to have been approved by both Cofer Black and George Tenet, meaning this request was denied by these very CTC managers.

In his July 23, 2001, email located in the same documents, on the same site, Wilshire clearly stated that Khalid al-Mihdhar and by association Nawaf al-Hazmi were going to take part on the next big al Qaeda operation. He also asked why no one had responded to his July 13, 2001 request to transfer the Kuala Lumpur information to the FBI Cole bombing investigators. See Substitution for the testimony of John July 23, 2001. Again top CIA mangers did not even reply to his request, indicating again that his request was denied , even while at the same time the very CIA mangers who had denied his request, Tenet and Black were describing to Rice and Clarke in the White House on July 10, 2001, and later to Rumsfeld and Ashcroft on July 17, 2001, a huge al Qaeda attack inside of the US that was just about to take place inside of the US that would kill thousands of Americans.

So it is now clear that in July 2001 when the top CIA managers, Black and Tenet, were aware that a huge al Qaeda attack was about to take place inside of the US, they had forbidden Tom Wilshire at least twice from turning over the information on the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting to the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing, they very information that would have prevented that attacks on 9/11.

On August 22, 2001, less than one month after Wilshire sent his email to his CTC CIA managers indicating that Mihdhar would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda attack, both Wilshire and Dina Corsi were told US by FBI IOS Agent Margaret Gillespie, a FBI agent at the CIA Bin Laden unit, that Mihdhar and Hazmi were found by the INS to be inside of the US. It is now clear that both Wilshire and Corsi knew immediately that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in this massive al Qaeda attack that would kill thousands of Americans.

On August 23, Gillespie had the CIA Bin Laden unit issue a worldwide alert for several al Qaeda terrorists connected with the Cole bombing including Mihdhar and Hazmi, an alert that clearly went right to top of the CIA hierarchy, including Cofer Black and George Tenet. Not only did they and 50-60 other people at the CIA, according to the CIA IG report, and many agents managers at the FBI now know that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US but they all knew they terrorists were in the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack that would kill thousands of Americans.

Cole bombing Yet as not only did all of these people keep this completely secret from the FBI criminal investigators that could have stopped these attacks, it is clear that they allowed Wilshire and Corsi to block the FBI criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi by FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, one of only two FBI investigations that could have found these terrorists in time to have stopped that attacks on 9/11. At the time they were doing this Wilshire, FBI Agent Corsi, Black and Tenet, and many other at both the FBI HQ and CIA knew that the CIA had been keeping the photo of Bin Attash and the identification of Bin Attash at the Kuala Lumpur meeting planning the Cole bombing secret from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team of Cole investigators.

Since this is a crime, and the many people who took part in this crime made it a criminal conspiracy, it is now clear that the CIA working with FBI HQ had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place due to a massive criminal conspiracy, that clearly must have included, according to the CIA IG report, both Cofer Black and George Tenet.

The proof for all of this can be found in the official US governments own documents found on the official US government web site for the Moussaoui trial http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exh ... / and www.eventson911.com .


Cofer Black and George tenet have never explained in almost 8 years why they hid the al Qaeda planning meeting and the fact that Mihdhar and Hazmi were with Walid Bin Attash planning the Cole bombing at that meeting from the FBI Cole bombing investigators.

They have never explained why they moved Tom Wilshire over to the FBI ITOS unit in mid-may, 2001, or why Wilshire set up that meeting in New York to find out what the Cole bombing investigators knew about Mihdhar and Hazmi.

They have never explained when they knew that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US on August 22, 2001 from Gillespies worldwide alert, to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack they had been warned about, why they did not alert anyone in the criminal investigations at the FBI and instead allowed Wilshire and Corsi to continue to hide the fact that Bin Attash had been at the Kuala Lumpur meeting planning the Cole bombing with Mihdhar and Hazmi, which allowed Corsi, and her boss Rod Middleton, to shut down Bongardt's investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.

They have never explained when they had to know that by continuing this massive criminal conspiracy to hide this information from the Cole investigators and know that thousands of people were going to perish in the al Qaeda attack that could have been stopped by Bongardt and his team why they continued with this conspiracy.

None of this has been explained after almost 8 years. Isnt about time we started to get some answers so the American people will know why our intelligence agencies allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place.
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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #106
109. K&R
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #106
111. Thank you, Robert.
Our recent dialogue has been extremely productive in reverse engineering the events that led up to 9/11. We don't have to agree on every aspect of interpretation - time will prove all things. I hope our collaboration on this continues.

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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #111
114. Our recent dialogue has been extremely productive in reverse engineering events that led up to 9/11
Sounds good, lets do it.

Good piece on Cofer Black, I have just a few questions:

Per your post:

We learn today from NYT reporters James Risen and Mark Mazzetti that Blackwater (Xe) started receiving CIA contracts in early 2002 to provide support and security to CIA missions in Afghanistan. See, http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/us/21intel.html This follows reports that Blackwater was contracted by CIA to target and carry out assassinations worldwide as part of the Global War on Terrorism.

But what about the questions that were never answered from the attacks on 9/11.

Cofer Black and George Tenet have never explained in almost 8 years why they hid the al Qaeda planning meeting from the FBI Cole bombing investigators and the fact that Mihdhar and Hazmi were together with Walid Bin Attash planning the Cole bombing at that meeting.

They have never explained why they moved Tom Wilshire over to the FBI ITOS unit in mid-may, 2001, or why Wilshire set up that meeting in New York to find out what the Cole bombing investigators knew about Mihdhar and Hazmi.

They have never explained why when they were holding meetings in the White House with Rice and Clarke, and then with Rumsfeld and Ashcroft describing a huge al Qaeda attack about to take place inside of the US that would kill thousands of Americans, why did they deny Wilshire permission to transfer to the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing the information that came out of the Kuala Lumpur meeting.

They have never explained when they knew that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US on August 22, 2001 from Gillespies worldwide alert, and knew they were inside of the Us in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack they had been warned about, why they did not alert anyone in the criminal investigations at the FBI and instead allowed Wilshire and Corsi to continue to hide the fact that Bin Attash had been at the Kuala Lumpur meeting planning the Cole bombing with Mihdhar and Hazmi. This allowed Corsi, and her boss Rod Middleton, to shut down Bongardt's investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.

They have never explained when they had to know that by continuing this massive criminal conspiracy to hide this information from the Cole investigators and know that thousands of people were going to perish in the al Qaeda attack that could have been stopped by Bongardt and his team, why they continued with this conspiracy.

Here is what Cofer Back said to in the public hearings for the Joint Inquiry of the Housie and the Senate on 9/11:

Kuala Lumpur

(U) The January 2000 operation to learn what a group of suspected al-Qa'ida associated men were doing in Kuala Lumpur is a case where our procedures were - inadequate. The first part of that operation was successful. We picked up on intelligence developed during the FBI's investigation of the 1998 Nairobi attack, to identify two suspected al-Qa'ida men. We tracked them to a meeting in Kuala Lumpur where they met with other terrorist operatives. We were not able to learn what the men did during that meeting, but we were able to identify other participants. That information continues to be operationally useful today.

(U) While the meeting was in progress, CTC officers detailed to the FBI kept the FBI updated through verbal briefings. Where we fell short was in our not informing the Department of State that we had identified two al-Qa'ida men so that the Department could decide whether to place them on the watch list. Nearly two years later, those two men, al-Mihdhar and al-Hazmi, were hijackers on Flight 77.

(U) C But mainly, it was due to the extraordinary pace of our operations during that period. We worked on high numbers of operations simultaneously constantly adding ever more operations - all with the objective of defeating terrorist attacks and defending our country.
(U) I identified the source of the problem and moved to fix it. We improved training for our officers and established a more comprehensive program for using intelligence to support watchlists.

(U) As the committee conducts its work, I want to reflect for a moment on my service as Chief of CTC. We are at WAR. We in CTC were aware of this fact. We gave it all we had. We, CIA, are this country's primary offense abroad against the terrorist threat. We willingly accept this tough job. I know that some Americans are alive today because of our efforts. And the same for citizens of other countries.
Nobody regrets more, that we did not stop the attacks on September 11, than the officers of CTC or their former Chief.

What we have managed to achieve abroad has been due in large part to the extraordinary professionalism of our men and women in CTC and those CIA operatives overseas who do the risky, hard work of counterterrorism. Lastly, I was proud of them then, am now, and will be until I die.

Say what, "The January 2000 operation to learn what a group of suspected al-Qa'ida associated men were doing in Kuala Lumpur is a case where our procedures were - inadequate.", and this is followed with a "Where we fell short was in our not informing the Department of State that we had identified two al-Qa'ida men so that the Department could decide whether to place them on the watchlist. Nearly two years later, those two men, al-Mihdhar and al-Hazmi, were hijackers on Flight 77."

Lets see, 3000 people are killed, not just killed. brurally murdered by the al Qaeda terrorists in the attacks on 9/11, and it now is clear that the CIA working with agents and managers, and even the FBI director at FBI HQ intentional and deliberately withheld information from the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing, information that could have prevented the attacks on 9/11 and we are told that "our procedures were - inadequate", and that "I identified the source of the problem and moved to fix it. We improved training for our officers and established a more comprehensive program for using intelligence to support watchlists."

What in the Christ sake is wrong with this testimony, and with our Senators and Representatives who listened to this absolute horse shit with a straight face.

None of this has been explained after almost 8 years. Isnt about time we started to get some answers, from both Cofer Black, George Tenet, and the CIA so the American people will know why our intelligence agencies allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place.



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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. Worth another kick...
:patriot:
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #114
116. Tenet attempted to blame the failure
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 11:28 PM by noise
on poor watchlisting/cable trafficking procedures. He would have the public believe that the CIA would have zero interest in the FBI's tracking of al Qaeda operatives once the cable had been sent. No follow up? No face to face meetings to make sure the FBI understood the gravity of the situation? Everything relied on a cable? This is completely absurd.

Another issue concerns the promotions. If 9/11 was truly an intelligence failure then why on earth were some of the key people in charge given promotions and hired by private companies? If the official explanation of intelligence failure is true then why would Blackwater hire Cofer Black? Why would they want someone who presided over such a massive failure? Why would Rice and the overlooked Hadley be promoted if indeed 9/11 and the case for WMD in Iraq were truly intelligence failures? Why was Hayden promoted if it was true that his confusion about FISA enabled the attack to take place? Wouldn't Congress have been terrified to reward these grossly incompetent officials with promotions?

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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #111
126. re: Thank you, Robert, More horrific information on Cofer Black!
From prior post

"Lets see, 3000 people are killed, not just killed brutally murdered by the al Qaeda terrorists in the attacks on 9/11, and it now is clear that the CIA working with agents and managers, and even the FBI director at FBI HQ intentional and deliberately withheld information from the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing, information that could have prevented the attacks on 9/11 and we are told that "our procedures were - inadequate", and that "I identified the source of the problem and moved to fix it. We improved training for our officers and established a more comprehensive program for using intelligence to support watchlists."

What in the Christ sake is wrong with this testimony, and with our Senators and Representatives who listened to this absolute horse shit with a straight face.

None of this has been explained after almost 8 years. Isnt about time we started to get some answers, from both Cofer Black, George Tenet, and the CIA so the American people will know why our intelligence agencies allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place."


Almost 3000 people were killed in these terrorists attacks, and these Senators and Representatives by the time of this testimony knew that the CIA had known about Mihdhar and Hazmi since January 4, 2000. These Senators and Representatives were told that the CIA knew that Mihdhar and Hazmi were long time al Qaeda terrorists who were connected to the east Africa bombings that had killed 200 people including many Americans and were told that just somehow the CIA had not only not bothered to inform the FBI of this for almost 19 months prior to the attacks on 9/11 and had also failed to watch list these dangerous terrorists even when they knew had entered the US in January 15, 2000. Does this even begin to pass the "smell test".

Again according to Cofer Blacks testimony to the Joint inquiry committee:

I am very concerned that your hearings last week left you with a substantial misunderstanding about communications between the CIA and the FBI during the investigation of the attack on the USS Cole. In that case, we were supporting the FBI's investigation. Both agencies wanted to find out who killed our sailors. Both agencies were working to bring those terrorists to justice. We were in the business of providing information to the FBI, not withholding it.
I want to be as clear as I can be that FBI agents and analysts had full access to information we acquired about the Cole attack.


No, Cofer, they did not. When the CIA found out on January 4, 2001 that the joint FBI/CIA source had identified Walid Bin Attash, aka Khallad, in photographs of him at the Kuala Lumpur meeting, and the CIA had already identified Mihdhar and Hazmi at that same meeting, they withheld this information from the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing until after the attacks on 9/11.

Again according to Cofer Blacks testimony to the Joint inquiry committee:

"For example, we ran a joint operation with the FBI to determine if a Cole suspect was in a Kuala Lumpur surveillance photo. I want to repeat-it was a joint operation. The FBI had access to that information from the beginning. More specifically, our records establish that the Special Agents from the FBI's New York Field Office who were investigating the USS Cole attack reviewed the information about the Kuala Lumpur photo in late January 2001."

This whole statement is a massive cover up of what we now know. After Ali Soufan attached the passport photo of Khallad to his CIA request in November 2000, for any information the CIA had on Khallad or any meeting in Kuala Lumpur, he was told that there was no information at the CIA on Khallad on any meeting in Kuala Lumpur.

Using Soufans passport photograph, Khallad was identified on December 16, 2000 as a high level al Qaeda terrorists, by the FBI/CIA joint source. Just after this identification, according to the DOJ IG report, CIA overseas personnel, requested from the CIA Bin Laden unit photos of both Mihdhar and Khallad taken at the Kuala Lumpur meeting.

While no one has ever identified these CIA overseas personnel they had to have been connected to either the Yemen CIA station or to the CIA handler for the FBI/CIA joint source. So it is clear that the CIA knew about this meeting in Kuala Lumpur and knew both Mihdhar and Hazmi had been at this meeting planning the Cole bombing with Walid Bin Attash. On Janaury 4, 20001 Khallad was identified by the joint FBI/CIA source in the photograph taken of him at the Kuala Lumpur meeting.

In February, 2001 FBI Agent Soufan had the FBI/CIA joint sourcer identify Khallad again from the passport photo of Khallad that he had been given by the Yemen authorities who had arrested Fahad al-Quso for the Cole bombing.

While Soufan was told by the FBI/CIA joint source, that the person in the passport photo he has was indeed Khallad, a high level al Qaeda terrorist, he was never told that the source had already identified Khallad from the Kuala Lumpur photos on January 4, 2001, or that the CIA also knew that both Mihdhar and Hazmi had also been at the Kuala Lumpur meeting planning the Cole bombing with Khallad.

The Joint source, the CIA handler for the FBI/CIA Joint source, the CIA Bin Laden unit and the CIA Yemen station all keep this information hidden from Soufan, even though they all knew that Soufan was the lead FBI criminal investigator of the Cole bombing, and knew he had already identified Khallad as the mastermind of the Cole bombing.

It is now impossible to believe that the CIA carried out this massive criminal conspiracy to hide this information from Soufan, without the full knowledge and cooperation of Cofer Black, the man who sat right at the top of the CTC unit in charge of the CIA Bin Laden unit, and right at the middle of this whole criminal conspiracy

Again according to Cofer Black's testimony to the Joint inquiry committee:

"I also want to be clear that, according the CTC analyst who attended the June 2001 FBI-CIA meeting in New York City, an FBI employee brought the photos to New York and showed them to FBI agents at the meeting. I want to repeat that. An FBI employee brought the photos to New York."

But we now know that this agent was FBI IOS Agent Dina Corsi who we also know had been asked by CIA officer Tom Wilshire to set up this meeting at the New York FBI field office with FBI agents on the Cole bombing just after the CIA again received Soufans request for the same information he had requested in November 2000.

We now also know that it must have been Cofer Black and George Tenet who had moved Tom Wilshire in mid-May 2001 from his job as Deputy Chief of the CIA Bin Laden unit to be liaison to the head of the FBI ITOS, Michael Rolince, and that the first thing he did when he got to the FBI was to ask Corsi to set up this meeting to find out what the FBI Cole investigators knew about the meeting at Kuala Lumpur and the people who had attended that meeting.

We now also know that at that meeting Corsi, the FBI employee referred to by Cofer Black presented three photos of Mihdhar she had gotten from Tom Wilshire, to the FBI Cole bombing investigators. According to Cofer Blacks testimony:
Furthermore, the CIA analyst, ( who we know was Clark Shannon), was not able to provide all of the information FBI criminal investigators wanted because of laws and rules against contaminating criminal investigators with intelligence information. As your staff has pointed out, there are laws that complicate our work.

But we know from the account of Ali Soufan and the DOJ IG report that:

After being shown by FBI IOS Agent Dina Corsi, the photos she had gotten from CIA officer Tom Wilshire, the three photos of Mihdhar and Hazmi taken at the Kuala Lumpur meeting while they were planning the Cole bombing with Walid Bin Attash, both FBI Agent Dina Corsi and CIA officer Clark Shannon told FBI Agent Steve Bongardt that they would not give him any information on the people in these photos due to the wall.

The claim that information on Mihdhar and Hazmi could not be given to the FBI Agents on the Cole bombing at the New York meeting on June 11, 2001 because of laws and rules against contaminating criminal investigators with intelligence information the wall, was nothing but a fiction and a ruse for several reasons.

First the CIA and the FBI HQ already had ample proof that both Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the east Africa bombings, and that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were part of the bin Ladens al Qaeda terrorist organization. The NSA cable that went to the CIA in DEcember 1999 had stated this. Since the east Africa bombings were a crime that had killed over 200 people including many Americans, and Bin Laden had already been indicted for this crime, any NSA information on Mihdhar and Hazmi could have gone to the FBI Cole investigators with no restrictions.

Second FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi knew prior to the June 11, 2001 meeting that Walid Bin Attach had been at the Kuala Lumpur meeting on January 5-8, 2000 planning the Cole bombing with both Mihdhar and Hazmi. Corsi tells the DOJ IG investigators that she was made aware that Bin Attash had been at that Kuala Lumpur meeting with Mihdhar before the June 11, 2001 meeting with the Cole bombing investigators which tied Mihdhar directly to the mastermind of the Cole bombing.

Email between Wilshire and Shannon in the DOJ IG report shows that both Clarke Shannon and Tom Wilshire, who set up the June 11, 2001 meeting in New York, and in fact many people at the CIA, were also aware that Bin Attash had been at the Kuala Lumpur meeting with Mihdhar and Hazmi planning the Cole bombing and even knew that all three were long time al Qaeda terrorists.

The bombing of the USS Cole was another crime that had resulted in the deaths on 17 American US Navy sailors. This meant that there was no conceivable reason what-so-ever at the June 11, 2001 meeting in New York to withhold any information known by the CIA or FBI HQ on Mihdhar and Hazmi from the FBI criminal investigators, particularly the investigators on the Cole bombing.

Walid Bin Attash had been identified by the CIA in January 4, 2001 in photos taken of him at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, and the CIA and FBI HQ knew that Bin Attash had been identified by the FBI Cole bombing investigators as one of the masterminds of the Cole bombing. Mihdhar and Hazmi had already been identified in photos also taken at the same meeting, and the NSA information given to the CIA had stated that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were going to this al Qaeda planning meeting.

This clearly connected both Mihdhar and Hazmi to the planning of the Cole bombing. Corsi, Wilshire and Shannon and the CIA were aware of all of this prior to the June 11, 2001 meeting with the FBI Cole bombings investigators. Even if information could legally be withheld from the FBI criminal investigators until evidence that a crime had been committed, once it was established that crime had been committed there was no longer any legitimate reason to hide this information from the FBI criminal investigators investigating that crime. In fact withholding material information on the criminals that have taken part in a crime from the FBI criminal investigators investigating this crime is itself a crime.

On August 22, 2001, when a FBI IOS agent at the CIA found that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, and the CIA knew they were inside of the US in order to take part in a massive an Qaeda attack, they not only kept this secret from anyone outside of the CIA, except for a few FBI agents and managers at the FBI Bin Laden unit that had subjugated, but the allowed FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi, one of the FBI agents they had subjugated to shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardts investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.

Bongardt's investigation was one of only two FBI criminal investigations that could have found enough evidence in time to have prevented the attacks on 9/11. Gillespie had the bin Laden unit issue a worldwide alert for Mihdhar and Hazmi on August 23, 2001, an alert that clearly went right directly to both Cofer Black and George Tenet. So on August 23, 2001 both Black and Tenet know that Mihdhar and Hazmi are inside of the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack and they not only dont do anything to stop this attack, they do not even tell anyone outside of the CIA, except perhaps for George Bush, that they have this horrific information.

According to further testrimony from Cofer Black;

"I am very concerned that your hearings last week left you with a substantial misunderstanding about communications between the CIA and the FBI during the investigation of the attack on the USS Cole. In that case, we were supporting the FBI's investigation. Both agencies wanted to find out who killed our sailors. Both agencies were working to bring those terrorists to justice. We were in the business of providing information to the FBI, not withholding it.

I want to be as clear as I can be that FBI agents and analysts had full access to information we acquired about the Cole attack."

But the 9/11 Commission found that when Cofer Black testified before Congresss Joint Inquiry into 9/11, and stated that the FBI had access to information on the two hijackers from the beginning, the 9/11 Commission could find no documentation to support this.

According to an internal CIA report, the CIA IG report, on the performance of the agency prior to the 9/11 attacks, Cofer Black was criticized for not passing on information to the FBI that al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar had entered the United States.

But the 9/11 Commission report page 181 says;

The (CIA) Counter terrorism center had briefed the CIA leadership on the gathering in Kuala Lumpur and the information had been passed on ... to the Director Freeh and others at the FBI...

But since there was no documentation when this information was passed to the Director of the FBI, and Freeh had deliberately hidden this information on the Kuala Lumpur meeting from his own FBI investigation into the Cole bombing and FBI Agent Ali Soufan, they concluded that they could find no documentation that supported this, in spite of the fact that this information ended up in Freehs January 4, 2000 daily briefing papers.

The DOJ IG report says that on January 5, 2000 that Tom Wilshire blocked FBI Agent Doug Millers cable on Mihdhar, so instead of the FBI having access to information on the two hijackers from the beginning, it is now clear that this information was deliberately kept secret from the FBI criminal agents in a wide ranging criminal conspiracy.

The fact that the CIA did not provide the photos of Mihdhar and Hazmi until August 23, 2001 according to the DOJ IG report is further proof that this information had not been provided earlier. The CIA then did not provide the FBI with the photo of Khallad until August 30, 2001 and the fact he had been identified at the Kuala Lumpur meeting planning the Cole bombing with Mihdhar and Hazmi.

When the EC and photos of Mihdhar and Hazmi accidentally went to FBI Steve Bongardt on August 28, 2001, Corsi then shut down Bongardts investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi with the ruse that the information came from NSA documents and could not be provided to FBI criminal investigators. But the fact that the CIA and FBI HQ knew both Mihdhar and Hazmi had committed many crimes and had taken part in the Cole bombing negated any real reason for withholding NSA information from the FBI criminal investigators.

According to a New York Times article:

"Antagonism between the Central Intelligence Agency and the committee became public a week ago after the director of central intelligence, George J. Tenet, wrote a letter to the committee's leaders, protesting the treatment of a senior C.I.A. officer who had testified about the agency's record on fighting terrorism. Mr. Tenet's letter was in response to a disclosure that the committee's staff had written briefing papers predicting to committee members that Cofer Black, who was until recently the chief of the C.I.A.'s counterterrorism center, would ''dissemble'' in his testimony." The word dissemble, is CIA speak for out and out lying.

Even the Joint Inquiry staff had predicted Cofer Black would lie to them and they were right.

But a even bigger question is now that the testimony of Cofer Black to the Joint Inquiry Committee is public and all of the information that proves he deliberately lied to this committee is now public, to hide the culpability of the CIA in allowing the attacks on 9/11, why have the people on the Joint Committee and in Congress not come forward and pointed this out?

Almost 3000 people were brutally murdered on 9/11, and one of the people that we now know who had deliberately and intentionally hidden critical information from the FBI criminal investigators is now caught in a palfrey of lies to the Joint Inquiry Committee of the House and the Senate.

It is impossible to believe that these people in the House and Senate are unaware of this information, since this information is in fact now public and it is now being discussed openly on this blog and many other blogs.

This brings up an even more horrifying question. If your Senators of Representatives now know that Cofer Black lied in his testimony to the Joint Inquiry Committee as to why the CIA and FBI HQ did not stop the attacks on 9/11, and allowed 3000 people to be brutally murdered on 9/11, and they have done nothing at all to prosecute any of the people who took part in this massive conspiracy to hide critical information from the FBI Cole bombing investigators, what in the CHRISTS SAKE does that say about the integrity our US Congress men and women.

Are they all so completely criminally corrupt that they just do not care when rouge and criminal elements in the CIA and FBI HQ undertake actions that directly lead to the deaths of thousands of Americans?

And what does that say about the people in America that have allowed these massively corrupt Congress men and women to remain in power!

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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #126
128. K&R
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #126
135. Bookmarking...

"If your Senators of Representatives now know that Cofer Black lied in his testimony to the Joint Inquiry Committee as to why the CIA and FBI HQ did not stop the attacks on 9/11, and allowed 3000 people to be brutally murdered on 9/11, and they have done nothing at all to prosecute any of the people who took part in this massive conspiracy to hide critical information from the FBI Cole bombing investigators, what in the CHRISTS SAKE does that say about the integrity our US Congress men and women.

Are they all so completely criminally corrupt that they just do not care when rogue and criminal elements in the CIA and FBI HQ undertake actions that directly lead to the deaths of thousands of Americans?

And what does that say about the people in America that have allowed these massively corrupt Congress men and women to remain in power!"

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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-10 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #135
144. re: what in the CHRISTS SAKE does that say about the integrity our US Congress men and women.
Your post:

"If your Senators of Representatives now know that Cofer Black lied in his testimony to the Joint Inquiry Committee as to why the CIA and FBI HQ did not stop the attacks on 9/11, and allowed 3000 people to be brutally murdered on 9/11, and they have done nothing at all to prosecute any of the people who took part in this massive conspiracy to hide critical information from the FBI Cole bombing investigators, what in the CHRISTS SAKE does that say about the integrity our US Congress men and women.

What is so amazing is that these Senators of Representatives even knew before Cofer Black testified that he was going to out and out lie to the Joint Inquiry Committee. The talk of Cofer Black lying was so pervasive the CIA Director George Tenet complained in the main stream media that talk of Cofer Black dissembling, CIA speak for lying, in front of the Joint Inquiry Committee, was going to make hard from Cofer to give his testimony!

And sure enough his testimony was full of out and out lies, to hide the fact that the CIA had intentionally allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the attacks that had murdered almost 3000 people on 9/11.

His first and most obvious lie was that the CIA and FBI worked well together and it was the job of the CIA to expeditiously pass CIA information to the FBI. But he never explained why the information on the al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur was not passed to the FBI or why FBI HQ agents shut down the FBI criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi when the CIA knew Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the USA preparing to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that would kill thousands of Americans, and even knew their actions to shut down this investigation would result in the deaths of these innocent Americans.

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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #126
145. Another K&R
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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #111
149. re: This information on Cofer Black
To explain where I got this information on Cofer Black, I actually spent time a huge amount of time putting the entire account of 9/11 back together again. It took several years using every single US official government investigation and report I could find, plus other documents I could confirm as correct, for example, Bob Woodwards book States of Denial, which describes the urgent meeting in the White House between Blee, Black, Tenet, and Rice and Clarke, where Tenet tells Rice a huge al Qaeda attack will take place shortly inside of the US and kill thousands of Americans, Lawrence Wright's book Looming Tower on FBI Agent Ali Soufan, and the documents actually entered into the Moussaoui trial.

Since some of the information had been left out or deliberately obscured in these reports, I had to build very detailed times lines and then figure out from these reports, who knew what, when they knew it, where did they get this information and did they act like a prudent person would act, once they had this information in order to prevent the attacks on 9/11 or did they intentionally hide the information they had even though they knew it might lead to FBI criminal investigators being unable to prevent the attacks on 9/11.

When documents were in conflict with one another, I had to figure out who or what document was telling the truth. At first this was very hard, but as I worked through the conflicting accounts I found that it became easier to figure out the real account. I used several techniques to do this.

I used what is called consistency to figure out which account matched information that was already available in the rest of the account on 9/11, and much that information had not differed at all even in different accounts of 9/11. Since as this process went on I got more and more information that was consistent, it became easier and easier to see what information was consistent with what I already had and what information was not consistent with what was already available.

I also determined which account had the most credible information, and in general it was the account that actually had the most detail instead of the account where no one could remember what was said. I also lined up what people actually said with what government documents showed that they actually knew.

For example, the account of the meeting between FBI Agent Dina Corsi and attorney Sherry Sabol, in the DOJ IG report it said no one could remember what took place that this meeting. FBI Agent Steve Bongardt had asked FBI HQ Gannet Dina Corsi to get a ruling from the FBI legal people to see if he could take part in an investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, when he found out that these al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US on August 28, 2001. (NOTE: When I discovered that the DOJ IG report had intentionally modified a portion of their report to hide Corsi's criminal culpability in allowing the attacks on 9/11 to take place was perhaps understandable to hide FBI HQ involvement in allowing the attacks on 9/11 to take place, but disappointing since in general the DOJ IG report had the most complete picture of what had taken place prior to 9/11 that had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to succeed). Corsi in her email to Liguori and Bongardt says Sabol ruled Bongardt could have nothing to do with any investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. But on page 538, Footnote 81, of 9/11 Commission report it says, in testimony given to the DOJ IG investigators on November 7, 2002, Sabol told Corsi that Bongardt could take part in any investigation of Midhar since the NSA information had no connection to any FISA warrant, just exactly what FBI Agent Steve Bongardt thought. We know when one testifies to DOJ IG investigators in a potential criminal investigation, that this testimony is written down much like any other legal proceeding.

The 9/11 Commission report accurately put this written testimony in the 9/11 Commission report but buried it at the back of the report in the foot notes, which shows that even though they had the correct information, they were deliberately burying this information so no one could go back and see the entire picture. The DOJ IG report actually says no one can remember what went on at this meeting when it is clear that was this testimony was not only written down, but was already part of the final the 9/11 Commission report, and actually in the hands of the DOJ IG investigators.

Since the 9/11 Commission report came out before the DOJ IG report, it is clear that the DOJ Inspector General could have just read the 9/11 Commission report to know that he was deliberately putting in his report, information that was patently wrong, this in fact is a crime. How stupid does the DOJ IG think the American people were when his account differs from an account that is already in the public domain? Did the DOJ IG think no one would go back to see if parts of his report had been deliberately fabricated and were contrary to information that was already available.

HOW GOD DAMN DUMB CAN YOU GET!

This is no small matter. Almost 3000 were murdered on 9/11 because of this lie from Corsi about Sabol's ruling on whether Bongardt could take part in the investigation and search of Mihdhar and Hazmi. This lie is what shut down Bongardts investigation for good. Almost beyond belief, Rod Middleton, Corsi's boss, gets from the CIA, on August 30, 2001, the photograph of Walid Bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur, and now at this point has the photographic proof that Mihdhar and Hazmi, who had also been photographed at Kuala Lumpur, had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing that took place at that meeting. In spite of Middleton being on the phone with Corsi on August 28, 2001, shutting down Bongardts investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, Middleton never calls Bongardt back asks Bongardt to restart his investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi, in spite of the fact that Middleton and the FBI HQ already know that Mihdhar and Hazmi are inside of the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that will kill thousands of Americans, and even know that by shutting down Bongardts investigation, there will be nothing stopping the al Qaeda terrorists at that point from carrying out this horrific attack.

Another example, in the letter to John Liguori on August 29, 2001, Corsi says that the information about Mihdhar and Hazmi cannot be given to FBI criminal investigators because it has not been approved by the NSA to be sent to these investigators. This is fine except for the fact that the written NSA approval is now available in the Moussaoui trail defense exhibit documents and says that this approval was actually granted on August 27, 2001, two days before Corsi tells Liguori and Bongardt that Bongardt cannot have this information because she does not have the NSA approval.

Corsi then really does herself no favors when she emailed Bongardt on August 29, 2001 and said If at such time information is developed indicating the existence of a substantial Federal crime, that information will be passed over the wall according to procedures."

But not only did Corsi know, she admits this right on page 302 of the DOJ IG report, but the CIA and FBI HQ also knew, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing, which is a horrific crime. They also knew that Mihdhar and Hazmi were long time al Qaeda terrorists connected to the east Africa bombings, and that Bin Laden had already been indicted for the east Africa bombings. Since these were horrific and heinous crimes, there was absolutely no legitimate or legal reason Corsi, her boss Rod Middleton, the CIA officer directing Corsi's obstruction of the Cole bombing investigation, Tom Wilshire, the FBI HQ and the CIA to shut down Bongardts investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. The DOJ IG report actually came to this same conclusion.

In the end I found much to my surprise that the entire story is actually all there.

It was a huge, long, and difficult process to put it all back together again, so in the end the American people could see the real and complete account of what actually took place on 9/11, an account that is sadly significantly different then what they got from the 9/11 Commission report and the main stream news media, even other books on 9/11 that had not gone to the time and effort to aggregate all of the known official government accounts of 9/11, even though they were available and in the public domain.

See my Journal for many more details on all of this.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #106
125. The CIA moved Wilshire to the FBI to spy on the FBI for the CIA!
It doesn't get any Spy vs. Spyier.

Will team Obama look under the rocks? Will they see if Cofer Black and George Tenet would like to chat?

Why not, if not?
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rschop Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #125
127. Will team Obama look under the rocks?
That is a good question, but as he already has a lot on his plate, it is doubtful they will look under the rocks. They are perhaps afraid of what will slither out!
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #106
130. THIS REPLY NEEDS TO BE NOTICED!
:kick:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #130
142. What upi402 said.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
117. bttt
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
120. LIHOP kick
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
122. Although I despise information warfare, I love the truth and an informed citizenry-kick
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
124. K & R
:kick: & R
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #124
129. k
:dem:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
131. kick
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
132. Fire at will-kick...
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
133. kcik
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
134. "WPost Helps CIA Defend Torture" by Ray McGovern (8-30-09 Consortium News)
That's a real losing cause-defending torture--yet here's another example of torture perception management in the MSM as described by former CIA analyst Ray McGovern.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/083009a.html
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
138. Kick
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
140. Kick for an outstanding post and thread.
How many more U.S. citizens have been deemed "terrorists" and, thus, eligible for execution without trial? Is Cofer Black the judge? Is it his boss, Erik Prince?
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f11killerbeing Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
141. asd
Nice
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-10 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
143. I really wish DU wasn't so uptight as to relegate this to the dungeon
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
146. Black is a shit stain on the underpants of humanity.....
along with a few others that come to mind.
:hi:
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IScreamSundays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-18-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
147. !!
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immune Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-18-10 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
148. Just when I think I have the tiniest grip on just how bad it was,
Edited on Sat Sep-18-10 08:13 PM by immune
somebody like you comes along and makes me realize I wouldn't know a pimple on an elephant's butt when it comes to pure evil. Thank you, I think. And thanks to all the rest of you for the supporting and continuing information.

This comment stands out for me, leveymg:

"I still tend to believe that global bankers, oil companies, and their lawyers really do the most sophisticated scenario planning.

As always, follow the money. Who made out biggest from the last round of gaming Wall Street and looting the Treasury? You don't make that kind of killing without good intelligence."


And, at the end of the day, I think these you mention here are the masterminds behind not only 911, but many other terror attacks around the world over time and that all the rest are merely puppets and stooges. Idiots who can be snuffed out as easily as those they snuffed out.

Its like the mob: not too hard to become involved, but retirement only comes one way.
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