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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:48 AM
Original message
#2
THE TOP 40 REASONS TO DOUBT THE OFFICIAL STORY OF SEPTEMBER 11th, 2001
http://911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646

#2) Air Defense Failures
a. The US air defense system failed to follow standard procedures for responding to diverted passenger flights. 
b. Timelines: The various responsible agencies - NORAD, FAA, Pentagon, USAF, as well as the 9/11 Commission - gave radically different explanations for the failure (in some cases upheld for years), such that several officials must have lied; but none were held accountable. 
c. Was there an air defense standdown?

http://www.oilempire.us/standdown.html

"The power to see to it that regular government operations don't occur is one of the greatest controls over power you can wield in a government."
-- Colonel Fletcher Prouty, Pentagon liaison to CIA
interview with Joseph Spieler, (archived on the CD-ROM available from prouty.org)

General Anatoly Kornukov
Commander in Chief of the Russian Air Force
"Generally it is impossible to carry out an act of terror on the scenario which was used in the USA yesterday As soon as something like that happens here, I am reported about that right away and in a minute we are all up."


Why there was NOT a "stand down" order:
explaining the "failure" of the Trillion Dollar Air Force to defend its headquarters

One of the first anomalies that many people noticed immediately after 9/11 was the inexplicable non-reaction of the military air defense system to the hijackings.

It has been standard operating procedures for decades to immediately intercept off course planes that do not respond to communications from air traffic controllers. When the Air Force "scrambles" a fighter plane to intercept, they usually reach the plane in question in minutes. The Air Force plane will then fly next to the non-responsive plane, and rock their wings -- a way to say "follow me" to a nearby airport (if the plane merely has lost its radio equipment). If the intercepted plane refuses to respond, there is a graduated series of actions the Air Force can use -- firing tracer bullets in front of the plane, even shooting it down if it is a threat. This is analogous to police pulling motorists over for having their lights out - every driver in the US knows that when a police car behind them turns on their siren, they are supposed to pull over, just like every pilot knows that when an Air Force fighter plane pulls beside them, they are supposed to follow their orders, too. If the light bulb has merely burned out, the motorist will get a warning, but the police have a graduated series of responses they can employ if the driver is not merely having a mechanical problem (ie. they have just robbed a bank and are driving with the lights off to avoid being seen).

The airspace over the northeastern US is among the busiest on the planet. It is home to the nation's political, military and financial headquarters, the largest population concentrations, and key strategic facilities. A jumbo jet in this area suddenly changing direction and altitude, and refusing to respond to air traffic controllers would be as dangerous as a truck on a busy rush-hour freeway driving the wrong way at full speed. When planes go off course in this busy environment, instant reactions make the difference between life and death -- which is why NORAD (North American Air Defense) practices these kinds of scenarios, and instantly scrambles fighters when there is any hint of a problem.

For critics of the official story of 9/11, the smokiest of the smoking guns is the "failure" of NORAD to intercept the planes. Even if one ignores the abundant evidence that allied intelligence services in other countries provided warnings that the attacks were about to happen, the information from the "insider trading " just before 9/11 that indicated which airline companies would be used, and other clues that clearly show complete official foreknowledge -- there is still enormous evidence that does not fit the official paradigm of "incompetence responding to a surprise attack."

The "timeline" of 9/11 was the first, and most important indicator of a massive discrepancy with the official story. NORAD's fighter interceptors can travel at supersonic speed, yet even the most basic calculations suggested that they had to fly far below even normal subsonic flight speeds to avoid reaching their destination (New York and Washington) in time. (See the "timeline" information lower on this webpage). Apologists for the Bush regime state that since they were not expecting the 9/11 scenario, and thought that the hijacking would be a "traditional" type hijack, but this avoids the question of why the off-course planes were not intercepted (a procedure that does not require Presidential authorization, unlike the order to shoot down the plane).


www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/911jun2002.html
I sat here in DC and listened to warnings that the plane was coming here, saw the buildings being evacuated, including the Pentagon, and then watched Flight 77 enter the most restricted air space in the world 40 minutes after Tower Two was hit, and fly unchallenged by intercept jet or surface-to-air missile, into the heart of our so-called Defense Department, which apparently cannot even defend itself. ....

... despite a "shoot down" order given by Bush and Cheney, nothing was done to intercept the plane headed for DC for forty minutes but to evacuate the Capitol, White House and Pentagon, much less to shoot it down on arrival into the most restricted air space in the country.


www.flight93crash.com/flight93_military_faq.html
On a newsgroup a former Pentagon Air Force Traffic controller writes: 
"All those years ago when I was in the Pentagon, this wouldn't have happened. ATC Radar images were (and are) available in the understructures of the Pentagon, and any commercial flight within 300 miles of DC that made an abrupt course change toward Washington, turned off their transponder, and refused to communicate with ATC, would have been intercepted at supersonic speeds within a max of 9 minutes by a Fighter out of Andrews. Period. Why these planes weren't, baffles me. If we could get fighters off the ground in 2 minutes then, we could now."


Ignorad
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2060825 
US military did not defend the Pentagon on 9/11
This article, published on MS NBC's website, was probably the first mainstream news deconstruction of the "9/11 timeline," pointing out flaws in the official story. The author died in a scuba diving accident a few months after writing this important analysis - hopefully, that is merely a coincidence.


from Mike Ruppert, author of "Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil"
I prepared more than 160 index cards creating a minute by minute and second by second timeline of events and then juxtaposing them with known and cited FAA/USAF regulations to prepare my spreadsheet. I also dispel many false beliefs such as the one that NORAD Radar only looks outward. Actually NORAD radar INCLUDES all FAA civil radar in the country and has added passive tracking abilities and the ability to determine altitude. The two systems are and were plugged in together on 9/11. Fighter aircraft were successfully scrambled on 56 occasions in the calendar year prior to 9/11 -- within minutes. ....

I have no doubt that the "piggybacked" exercises were used as distraction and chaff on 9/11 to provide plausible deniability for the inexcusable fighter response. But a thorough look leads all roads back to one place, the FAA Hijack Coordinator who is the guy who is obligated to pull the trigger for DoD response when certain conditions are met.

This timeline also subtly suggests that warplanes scrambled to protect New York (and failed to do so) somehow could not be used to intercept Flight 77 after the second tower was hit but before the Pentagon crash.

No government official has yet explained the inexcusable nearly half-hour delay for the FAA to tell NORAD that the planes were off course (standard protocol is to notify the Air Force immediately - and NORAD has its own radar systems that track commercial flights).

Does anyone really believe that the FAA waited nearly a half hour to tell the Air Force that Flight 77 had turned around in the direction of the national capital, especially after the World Trade Center buildings had been hit?
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 05:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Huge error from the very beginning
It has been standard operating procedures for decades to immediately intercept off course planes that do not respond to communications from air traffic controllers


That is not true - not at least overland. Planes approaching America from foreign airspace that go off course, loose comms or can't be identified will be intercepted before entering US airspace. But planes that originate in US airspace will not automatically and immediately be intercepted.

You cannot prove this - there is no evidence at all that it was SOP. With the tens of thousands of daily flights in America, this should have been happening on a daily basis. Why is there no evidence to show this?

And think about it - there are 7 bases all on the coast where 14 strip alert fighters are located. That's not a lot of planes. And who is intercepting all those plane over Kansas - fighters are short ranged.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. He said "for decades." What changed and when?

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=com...

Early Morning September 11, 2001: Helicopter Crew at Aviation Unit near Pentagon Away for Traffic Survey

(6:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: NORAD on Alert for Emergency Exercises

Early Morning September 11, 2001: Langley Pilot Asks to Be Taken off Alert Later On

(8:13 a.m.-9:28 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Pilots of All Four Hijacked Planes Fail to Dial Standard Distress Code

8:13 a.m. September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Makes Its Last Communication with Air Traffic Control

(Between 8:13 a.m. and 8:21 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Transponder Turned Off

8:14 a.m.-8:24 a.m. September 11, 2001: Air Traffic Controller Repeatedly Tries to Contact Flight 11

(After 8:14 a.m.-8:38 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Pilot Repeatedly Pushes Talk Back Button

(8:15 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight Controllers Cannot Contact Flight 11

8:19 a.m. September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Attendant Ong Phones in Hijack Report, Officials Doubt Validity

8:20 a.m. September 11, 2001: American Airlines Dispatcher Learns of Problem With Flight 11

8:20 a.m. September 11, 2001: Flight 11 IFF Signal Transmission Stops
Flight 11 stops transmitting its IFF (identify friend or foe) beacon signal.

(8:20 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Veers Off Course

(8:20 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Flight Control Thinks Flight 11 May Be Hijacked?

(8:21 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Attendant Ongs Hijacking Account Forwarded to American Airlines Operations Center

(8:21 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Controller Suspects Something Seriously Wrong with Flight 11, but NORAD Not Notified

8:22 a.m. September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Attendant Sweeney Phones in Hijacking Details

(Between 8:22 a.m. and 8:44 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Sweeneys Call Reaches American Headquarters, but Managers Cover Up the News

8:23 a.m.-8:25 a.m. September 11, 2001: American Airlines Operations Center Tries to Contact Flight 11, But Gets No Response

8:24 a.m. September 11, 2001: Boston Air Traffic Controllers Hear Flight 11 Hijacker Say, We Have Some Planes, but Uncertain of Origin of Transmission

(8:25 a.m.-8:35 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Military Liaison Arrives Late at Boston Center, Learns of First Hijacking

(8:25 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Realizes with Certainty that Flight 11 Has Been Hijacked

(8:25 a.m.-8:50 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Office of Management and Budget Deputy Director Speaks with Cheney Neither Can Later Recall What They Discuss

8:25 a.m. September 11, 2001: Boston Center Starts Notifying Chain of Command

8:25 a.m. September 11, 2001: Boston Flight Control Tells Other Centers About Hijack, But Not NORAD

(8:26 a.m.-8:29 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Turns, Many Watch It on Primary Radar

(Between 8:27 a.m. and 8:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Ong Gives Flight 11 Details; Seating Accounts Differ

8:28 a.m. September 11, 2001: FAA Command Center Informed of Flight 11 Hijacking, Establishes Teleconference between Air Traffic Control Centers

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Several Senior Members of FAA Staff Away From Base When Attacks Begin

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Firefighters Who Later Respond to Pentagon Attack Are Attending Antiterrorism Training

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: US Military Holding Practice Armageddon Nationwide Training Exercise

8:30 a.m.-8:40 a.m. September 11, 2001: Managers at FAA Command Center Learn of Flight 11 Hijacking, but Continue with Staff Meeting

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Preparations Underway for IMF/World Bank Meeting in Washington, DC

(8:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Navy Commander Describes Need for Seminal Terrorist Event

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: FAA Hijack Coordinator Responsible for Contacting Military is Out of Contact

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Army Base Near Pentagon Holds Terrorist Attack Exercise

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Preparations Underway in New York for UN General Assembly

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Preparations Underway at Pentagon for President Bushs Arrival Later in the Day

(8:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: American Airlines Vice President Informed of Hijacking, But Unable to Contact Company President

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Rookie in Command of the NMCC

(8:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Some US Leaders Are Scattered; Others in D.C.

8:32 a.m. September 11, 2001: FAA Headquarters Informed of Flight 11 Hijacking, but Does Not Contact the Pentagon to Request Assistance

8:33 a.m. September 11, 2001: Betty Ong Reports Death of Flight 11 Passenger

(8:34 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Air Traffic Controller Takes over Monitoring Flight 11, but Is Unaware It Is Hijacked

8:34 a.m. September 11, 2001: Boston Air Traffic Control Center Calls FAA Facility at Otis Air Base

(8:34 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Center Calls Atlantic City Military Unit to Request Fighters; Outcome of Call Unclear

(8:34 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Flight Control Hears Hijacker Announcement

(8:35 a.m.) September 11, 2001: President Bushs Motorcade Leaves for Elementary School

(8:35 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Center Military Liaison Makes His First Call to NEADS, Though 9/11 Commission Does Not Mention It

(Shortly After 8:34 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Otis Control Tower Calls Otis Operations Center with Details of Hijacking

8:35 a.m.-8:36 a.m. September 11, 2001: American Airlines Supervisor Confirms Details of Slightly Misnamed Hijacker

(8:37 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Center Notifies NEADS of Hijacking, against Normal Procedures; Accounts Conflict over Timing

....................................................





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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I am a bit confused.
The content of your post appears to have nothing to do with the title.

Hacked pointed out that he did not think you could show any evidence that this was ever SOP. So your response that it was for decades but might have changed prior to 9-11 is a non-sequitor. You would need to provide evidence that this was at some point SOP.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. The poster would need to provide evidence that it wasn't.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. He was wrong. It was not the policy for decades. nt
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Oh OK
What was the policy for decades then.


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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Interception of unknown planes approaching US air space from foreign or international airspace. nt
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
43. Do you have any verification?
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
62. The OP made the claim - prove it.
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 02:43 PM by hack89

I am tired of truthers making unsubstantiated claims. The OP is full of them - did you even consider researching any of them yourself or did you accepted carte blanche because it was what you wanted to hear?

I will provide a link right after you do.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. More deflection.
:shrug: If you have something to contribute, please share.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:45 PM
Original message
I am asking you to back up your unsubstantiated claims
my contribution is point out your typical truther tactics of making a stupid claim and then saying "if you can't prove me wrong I am right."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
70. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
72. "I'm not saying that, you are" got deleted?
I have no idea what that was about.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #72
98. OMG
"ill will"? :wow:
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #66
94. Dude...you're playing more games...
When you make a claim and someone challenges you for proof of YOUR claim, that isn't a claim. Duh.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #94
100. I don't have to play your games. If ya'll don't want to contribute fine.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. I'd be glad to contribute when you stop playing games, dude...
I'm not exactly holding my breath.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #102
105. Reread the posts. Try. To. Comprehend.
:hi:
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #105
127. Mu.st...com..pre..hend... n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #105
128. Bye, dude...
your game-playing is just another "truther tactic". Enough.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #128
132. Go ahead. Put me on ignore too. n/t
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #128
142. It's YOUR game! Buh Bye!!
B-) DUDE
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #142
149. Now if we can just get the rest of them to ignore us... n/t
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #149
156. LOL
They're like cats. They don't like being laughed at.


No offense to cats.



"You're playing games, Dude, by falling for my games, Dude, so quit, no you first, no I'd be glad to, no YOU quit, playing my games, Dude."


Come on down to the Dungeon and discover the pesky little brothers you never knew you had. :kick:
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #102
124. Would you?
Please?

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #124
130. If he stops playing games, he has more time for substance.
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 04:36 PM by omega minimo
:think:
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
59. Delete - wrong place. nt
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 02:35 PM by hack89
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Kesha Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. "Control of the airspace of the United States"
As the 1 April 2000 Air Force Instruction 13-1AD, Volumn 3 on Air Defense Command and Control Operations
states in Chapter 3.1, under Mission, "The First Air Force Commander (1 AF/CC), in his role as the CONUS
NORAD Region Commander, provides CINCNORAD/Commander US Element NORAD with TW/AA, surveillance and
control of the airspace of the United States and appropriate response against air attack."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18663706/T8-B19-NEADS-Trip-1-...

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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. So why were all the ADIZs over water prior to 911?
Something to consider:

If the OP were true than there should be no problem showing me plenty of examples of such intercepts. With the number of daily flights in American it should have been a daily occurrence. The number of passengers that could relay personal experiences should be huge. Yet there is nothing - no evidence what so ever that it was in fact routine SOP for overland flights.

Have you considered that "Control of the airspace of the United States" did not necessarily mean routine interceptions over land?
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Kesha Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. They had to intercept... it`s called "special aircraft jurisdiction"
See this docoument for reference:

"Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA), has exclusive responsibility to direct law enforcement activity
related to actual or attempted aircraft piracy (hijacking) in the special
aircraft jurisdiction of the United States. When requested by the
Administrator, Department of Defense will provide assistance to these
law enforcement efforts. Pursuant to reference c, the NMCC is the focal
point within Department of Defense for providing assistance. In the
event of a hijacking, the NMCC will be notified by the most expeditious
means by the FAA."

and

"Military Escort Aircraft
(1) When notified that military escort aircraft are needed in
conjunction with an aircraft piracy (hijacking) emergency, the DDO,
NMCC, will notify the appropriate unified command or USELEMNORAD to
determine if suitable aircraft are available and forward the request to the
Secretary of Defense for approval in accordance with DODD 3025.15,
paragraph D.7 (reference d).

(2) Pursuant to reference j, the escort service will be requested by
the FAA hijack coordinator by direct contact with the NMCC. Normally,
NORAD escort aircraft will take the required action. However, for the
purpose of these procedures, the term escort aircraft applies to any
military aircraft assigned to the escort mission. When the military can
provide escort aircraft, the NMCC will advise the FAA hijack coordinator of
the identification and location of the squadron tasked to provide escort
aircraft. NMCC will then authorize direct coordination between FAA and
the designated military unit. When a NORAD resource is tasked, FAA will
coordinate through the appropriate Air Defense Sector/Regional Air
Operations Center"

http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.p...
June 2001


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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. You changed the subject
we were talking about routinely intercepting planes due to going off course, losing communications or losing IFF.

You are now talking about hijackings - very rare. And the response is very deliberate - it was (pre-911) viewed as a hostage situation and they didn't want to escalate the situation and endanger any lives. They certainly were not planning shoot the plane down.
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Kesha Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. No, I did not...

1) My first quote:

"surveillance and
control of the airspace of the United States"

Surveillance means surveillance, doesn`t it?


2) My second quote states that there were orders for intercepting planes when beeing
notified by the FAA, thus a "routine opeation".


And yes... to intercept doesn`t necessarily mean to shoot down an aircraft.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yeah...but you are (seemingly purposely)...
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 11:38 AM by SDuderstadt
conflating an ordinary hijacking with what turned out to be using the planes as weapons, where the hijacking was merely a way of obtaining the weapon. There was no intent to commandeer the plane and take it somewhere else nor use the passengers as hostages to gain some aim.
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Kesha Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Honestly... I don`t get your point
The 4 flights plus Delta 1989 (for some time) were considered to be "hijacks", weren`t they?

I don`t you meant to say
"Dude, after UA 175 crashed there was no reason to follow standard procedures for hijacks because they turned out to be not ordinary hijacks" ?

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Try that again with some coherence, please...
on second thought, don't. Now that your buddy, BuddyBoy, has exited the stage, I don't think we'll hear from you all that much.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. In other words...
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 12:52 PM by MrMickeysMom
"Dude... bring it down to my understanding"

How many floors will that elevator be able to go DOWN, dude?

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Why don't you translate this, then?
I don`t you meant to say


You guys seem to speak the same language.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. What are you talking about?
again ?

Never mind, I see it's your stupid habit of reaching for any typos whilst missing the point.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. It ain't a "typo", dudette....
the sentence makes no sense. Maybe you think it does, but most of yours don't either.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. QUIT HIJACKING THE THREAD
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kesha Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
92. I forgot a "don`t " in the hurry... ok
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 03:46 PM by Kesha
Mr Duderstadt may respond in German, just in case his German is better than my English.

Dude... ;-)

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. I already told you that I don't speak German...
(then you claimed my ancestors had been kicked out of Germany) and I already told you I don't see any further point in engaging with you.
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Kesha Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #95
108. I have no problems with your ancestors
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 04:06 PM by Kesha
times were hard around 1900, especially in Eastern Germay, now Poland. I assume that`s were they came from.

I just offered you an alternative, just in case you may have problems to understand me. I think that`s only fair.
We may also discuss in Dutch or Russian. I`m fluent in both languages. My Latin sucks, though.

I`m afraid this won`t help, as you also don`t seem to understand your fellow American DUers.

Tragisch...

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #108
110. Ochin cressiva.
"I`m afraid this won`t help, as you also don`t seem to understand your fellow American DUers.

"Tragisch..."

:spray:
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Kesha Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #110
113. indeed...
Он ровен только слабая голова

In the US, Russia and Germany... everywhere.



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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #113
116. .
Скрытые в виду
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Kesha Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #116
120. Hidden?
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 04:27 PM by Kesha
Na... very obvious, in my opinion. :-)

He`s just trying to describe the colors of the Emperor`s new clothes.

Imagine what I read today... The Nazis attacked the wrong Sender Gleiwitz in 1939. It was just a relay station...
http://einestages.spiegel.de/static/authoralbumbackgrou...





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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #120
123. If you walk in lockstep
sometime you're gonna trip.
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Kesha Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #123
140. wise words...
Lockstep = Gleichschritt, and that`s what Glukoza`s song is about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gmk6jlFt0k

You don`t need to understand Russian to understand it.

It still sucks that my wife is stopping all quarrels with "But we won the war!", though... ;-)

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #140
145. A Russian and a German!!
Never a dull moment in that house. :toast: :lockedhorns:
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Kesha Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #145
167. She`s the Russian, I`m the Kraut
...to be precise.

And my jewish in-law Uncle Aaron served on the USS Yorktown, while my father served with the Wehrmacht in Russia and my mother was a FLAK WAAF, while my wife`s Uncle was KIA at Kursk.

I think our family deserves the term "Neutral". No ideology left, just facts.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #108
131. I SAID I DON'T SEE THE POINT OF ENGAGING WITH YOU....
Need that translated, dude?
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #131
134. How many languages do you know? n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #134
144. 65....
oddly enough, none of them include "Subdivisionese". I have requested a translator.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #144
146. If you don't address me, you won't need to learn my language. n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #146
150. Good....
you're the one who jumped in. Maybe you should complain to the moderators.

"Sduderstadt is addressing me!"
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #150
152. I don't tattle-tale like you do. Now, be gone.... n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #152
155. I don't violate the rules like you do.
i think I'll stay...dude.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #155
159. Put me on ignore then. n/t
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #155
176. State the violations...
You're so good at doing those things.

:popcorn:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #150
158. Sauerkraut is undressing me? Shouldn't that be in the Lounge?
:wow:
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #150
175. How about that...
So, you jumped in too deep, eh? Aw... Too bad this isn't an event for you to run to the mods, SDuderstadt!

You can't run away fast enough!

This is hilarious!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #175
178. What are you yammering about now, MMM?...n/t
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #131
143. Wow, everybody's lucking out today.
:bounce: :kick:
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Kesha Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #143
169. Well, 9/11 is an international issue now
French and German troops are dying in Afghanistan right now.

I still remember the Russian Veterans begging for money in Moscow, back in 2002 - 2008. Some sitting on planks with rolls.

This is reality, Dudes.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #131
174. Of course, you don't...
No one needs translation of the water which fails to meet its next level... Dude ;-)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I know you've been here for a while, but...
Welcome
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Kesha Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
82. Dankeschn.
We Krauts been there, done that, never again.

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
48. Hey, that's a good one!!
:think: He said it and he doesn't think it makes sense :rofl:
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Wow... that sounds like he's has two mouths from which to opine...
No wonder these guys don't have pictures of themselves... hmmm....
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #50
101. Is that YOUR picture?
I thought it was a picture of a cat.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #50
103. Gee. No conspiracy theories here in the dungeon, eh?
:sarcasm:
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lovepg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
15.  I know I am always glad as a passenger to find out its just an "ordinary" high jacking!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Jesus...
I just knew you wouldn't grasp the distinction.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. You think you know a lot of things...
... keep thinking...
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Do you really want to go down this path again, MMM?
Do you really think all hijackings are the same? Do you think using a plane gained through a hijacking as a weapon is a mere hijacking? Is it my imagination or do all "truthers" have trouble with nuance?
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. What path is that?
And, what hijacking weapon are you imagining?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Imagining?
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 01:00 PM by SDuderstadt
Do you really think crashing an airliner at 500 mph+ into a building is your run-of-the-mill hijacking? Do you really have this much problem with conversational English?

And the path I'm talking about is where you get your ass kicked on the facts, start slowly but surely losing it, assailing everyone who dares disagree with you, then get many of your posts deleted. That path.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Don't further discredit yourself...
by throwing insults towards those who doubt the OCT. It has nothing to do with the English language and everything to do with believing the lies and omissions of the documents you endlessly use as your references.

As for deleting posts, I'd say you were an expert in being the king of the hall monitors!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I don't believe Johnny Brewer's affidavit was a "lie or omission" and...
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 01:12 PM by SDuderstadt
it also had nothing to do with 9/11.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Your comment here has nothing to do with THIS thread...
Your endless belief in narrow references surrounding what happened on 911 DOES.

QUIT HIJACKING THE THREAD!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. "Narrow references"
LOLOLOL
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
54. No hablo bully
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #54
96. Oh, please....
you're not being bullied. I suspect that's what you say when confronted with vigorous debate. No habla chicken, dude.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. No...
WE are being confronted by your vigorous BULLSHIT.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #99
135. Don't let your blood pressure go up, dude...
you know what happens when you do.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #135
139. I ain't your dude, dude. You are a disruptor. That is ALL you are. Nothing
you say is valid.


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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #139
148. Dude...we seem to have plenty of vigorous discussion when you're not around...n/t
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #148
151. Can you provide any evidence of that?
:popcorn:
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #151
153. Yeah, go away and you'll see...
dude.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #153
157. dude. n/t
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #153
161. It's you who leave and substance or vigor ensues, apparently.
BUH BYE :hi:
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #148
154. I'm sure you do. You deflect , bully, and troll equally vigorously whether I'm here or not. n/t
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #96
106. All you guys do is deflect.
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 04:02 PM by omega minimo
"Vigorous debate"? :spray: :rofl:


"Do you really have this much problem with conversational English?" Bullying

"And the path I'm talking about is where you get your ass kicked on the facts," Bullying

"start slowly but surely losing it," Bullying

"assailing everyone who dares disagree with you, " Bullying

"then get many of your posts deleted. That path." Bullying


No debate, just bullying. :hi:

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
53. You skipped the nuance where the (lack of) interceptors don't know ahead of time
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 02:22 PM by omega minimo
what the intent is, when a plane is off course and incommunicado........ or did they? :think:

And in this case, as the timeline shows, various officials did know they were hijacked.

Now you will find some semantic somethingorother to fixate on and deflect again. :hi:
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #53
73. I'm taking bets it will be the "somethingorother"
"Wahhhhh! You didn't take critical thinking or logic courses like I did! Wahhhhh!"

As if that goofy shit changes anything.

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lovepg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Define ordinary extraordinary circumstances for me then???
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
56. A president lounging in a kindergarten class, aware that his nation is under attack as thousands die
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 02:27 PM by omega minimo
:evilfrown:
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #56
84. Please link to anyone defending that action here. n/t
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. Link to anything solid you can use as a reference that 9/11 was not an inside job. n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #90
104. "Truther Logic "
"prove that 9/11 wasn't an inside job or it must have been one"

Fucking unbelievable.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #104
114. Deflector "Logic"
"...my contribution is point out your typical truther tactics of making a stupid claim and then saying "if you can't prove me wrong I am right."

"When you make a claim and someone challenges you for proof of YOUR claim, that isn't a claim. Duh"

"I'd be glad to contribute when you stop playing games, dude..."
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #90
112. It was definitely inside protected air space and not out over the water
:eyes:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #84
111. That doesn't even make sense. Are you just constantly looking for a pissing contest?
:wow:

Bet mine's bigger.

:wow:
:wow:
:wow:
:wow:
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #111
121. You talked about Bush loitering in the kindergarten classroom as if someone were defending it here.
I'm not playing your game.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #121
122. You stand in defense of that motherfucker every day! cheeney too! n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #122
138. Disagreeing with your bullshit isn't defending Bush, dude...
maybe you'll learn that lesson one day.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #138
141. Maybe you'll learn one day to STOP TROLLING THIS BOARD. n/t
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #138
147. Ollie North is not a Hero
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #147
163. Who here has said that he is????
Link, please.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #163
171. Wow.
Paranoid, much? That's the second time you've done that. :scared:
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #171
173. Quit acting like anyone here thinks like this. Why did you even bring him up? n/t
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 05:56 PM by Bolo Boffin
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #173
177. I'm not "acting like anything" nor am I responsible for your bizarre interpretations.
See? :think:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #121
125. I replied to "Define ordinary extraordinary circumstances for me then???"
The game seems to be in your imagination. :shrug:
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. as opposed to a suicide mission
I'm sure you would...unless you were suicidal yourself.

Do you even read what you post?
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Great deducing, Watson!
:rofl:

I think you all need some new writers. That, "Do you even read your posts" statement is so over-used here.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
45. Lets see
by "Watson" I assume this is an lame attempt to be insulting?

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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #45
74. It's not lame at all... *snicker* n/t
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lovepg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. Ohhh so jets are only scrambled for suicide missions of which none had occured before 911?
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 01:21 PM by lovepg
The policy was written prior to 911 and clearly was talking about ordinary hijackings as the other kind had not really been established yet.
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. What part of
jets were scrambled on Sept 11, 2001 do you not understand.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
58. Why did they get info that attacks were coming from offshore?
:popcorn:
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #58
107. They didn't, dude...
they didn't know where the targets were. Standard procedure prior to 9/11 was to vector to an ADIZ...so that's what they did. Duh.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. You just make this up as you go, don't you? Duh.
Anything substantial you want to reference would be fine.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #107
118. You don't know anything about AF SOP prior to 9/11. Duh. n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #118
160. They weren't AF, dude...
They were ANG. Duh.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #41
76. Brains and eggs were scrambled that morning. n/t
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
75. Yes, scrambles are only to be performed on eggs. Not run-of-the-mill hijackings.
Only the extra-special kamikaze plane-bomb into skyscrapers kind of hijackings are worthy of response.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #75
78. You are misrepresenting the policies on hijackings before 9/11. n/t
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. You don't know anything about the "policies" on hijacking before 9/11. n/t
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Actually I do, and you are misrepresenting them. Stop trying to shift the burden of proof. n/t
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. You don't know a goddamned thing about military SOP before 9/11. n/t
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #85
117. Your post about post 9-11 changes doesn't mean NONE of those things occurred before
:crazy:
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:53 PM
Original message
If it was done before 9/11, how would it be a change?
You do understand the meaning of the word, change, right?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
172. Apparently you don't.
Read. For. Com. Pre. Hen. Sion. :thumbsup:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
52. ROFL
Makes all the searches and seizures and shoelessness worth it, don't it? :spray:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
47. Does the officer know before he pulls you over whether you have a license, attitude and/or gun?
You are the one changing the subject. (seemingly purposely)...
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Alert fighters were scrambled
from two bases on the eastern seabord and attempted to intercept once the arcraft were ID'd as hijacked. They did not make it in time before the aircraft crashed into buildings, or into the ground.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
60. Could you show in the timeline where that fits please?
And what about the planes that were NOT intercepted after the WTC was hit? (See timeline)
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
77. Of course they didn't make it on time. That would've fucked up the entire plan...
SHEESH!

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. Any evidence in support of your assertion that the American military was a part of the plan
would be helpful.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. Nope. Just a hunch they were being controlled from a bunker by Dick Cheney. n/t
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. Thanks for admitting the evidence-free nature of your hunches. n/t
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. Homicide detectives follow their hunches all day, every day, in the absense of evidence. n/t
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. Well, there is evidence what Cheney was doing.
So there isn't absense of evidence here, but resistance of evidence.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Yes. We do know what cheeney was doing that morning... He was
ordering the death of those people that died in the Pentagon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO-9LQDFE2Y

"The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out. Mr. Vice President, do the orders still stand?"

cheeney: "Of course the orders still stand!"

Then:




Yes. We have evidence of EXACTLY what cheeney was doing that morning. Fucking murdering PNAC-er motherfucker.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #93
97. That is actually a reference to the PEOC discussion AFTER the crash of 93.
It was a shoot-down order they were discussing, not a stand-down order.

Cheney is an evil man, but attributing all evil acts possible to him, even making up evil acts for him to do, is not helpful to resisting his evil. As a matter of fact, making up shit about Dick Cheney helps Dick Cheney.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #97
115. BULLSHIT! You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 04:25 PM by Subdivisions
Minetta is in the PEOC with Cheney and the guy is calling out "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out. Mr. Vice President, does the order still stand?" cheeney: "Of course the order still stands!"

Then:

http://www.911timeline.net /

9:37 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 77 is lost from radar screens and impacts the western side of the Pentagon. The section of the Pentagon hit consists mainly of newly renovated, unoccupied offices. The Pentagon says American Airlines Flight 77 hits them at 9:37. Other published reports have American Airlines Flight 77 striking at 9:40 to 9:43; The New York Times even published 9:45 (see 9:24 a.m. # 75).

But you said this happened AFTER Flight 93 crashed. BULLSHIT!


...snip...

113) 10:02 a.m.: After a review of radar tapes, a radar signal of United Airlines Flight 93 is detected near Shanksville, Pennsylvania.


114) 10:03 a.m.: An unconfirmed report of a fire at the State Department in Washington D.C. -- Later confirmed not true.

115) 10:03 a.m.: According to the FBI, the cockpit voice recorder stops and United Airlines Flight 93 crashes near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, in Somerset county, about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.



116) 10:04 a.m.: Johnstown-Cambria County Airport reports United Airlines Flight 93 is 15 miles south.


117) 10:06:05 a.m.: According to seismic data, United Airlines Flight 93 crashes near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, in Somerset county, about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh. This is also 124 miles or 15 minutes away at 500 MPH from Washington D.C. An eyewitness reports seeing a white plane resembling a fighter jet circling the site just after the crash.


The F-16's from Langley AFB arrived in Washington D.C at 9:49 a.m. The F-16 has a top speed of 1500 MPH. After the Pentagon gets hit by American Airlines Flight 77 at 9:37, there is only one airliner left in the sky with its transponder signal off, and once again heading directly for Washington D.C., and that is United Airlines Flight 93. Flying at top speed these F-16�s could have intercepted United Airlines Flight 93 within 5 to 8 minutes depending on when they would have left. Why didn�t these F-16�s try to intercept United Airlines Flight 93?


Listen to what a former Pentagon air traffic controller says "All those years ago when I was at the Pentagon, this wouldn't have happened. ATC Radar images were (and are) available in the understructures of the Pentagon, and any commercial flight within 300 miles of D. C. that made an abrupt course change toward Washington, or turned off their transponder and refused to communicate with ATC, would have been intercepted at supersonic speeds within minutes by fighters out of Andrews AFB. Why there were no fighters from Andrews AFB up baffles me. If we could get fighters notified, scrambled, and airborne within about 6 minutes from Andrews AFB then, we could now."

NORAD Press Release: http://StandDown.net/NORADSeptember182001PressRelease.h...

AP Article On NORAD PR: http://www.AttackOnAmerica.net/8MinutesAway.htm


Shortly after 911, a flight controller in New Hampshire ignores a ban on controllers speaking to the media, and it is reported he claims "that an F-16 fighter closely pursued Flight 93... the F-16 made 360-degree turns to remain close to the commercial jet, the employee said. 'He must've seen the whole thing,' the employee said of the F-16 pilot's view of Flight 93's crash."


Numerous eyewitnesses see and hear United Airlines Flight 93 just before its crash:


1) Terry Butler, at Stoystown: he sees the plane come out of the clouds, low to the ground. "It was moving like you wouldn't believe. Next thing I knew it makes a heck of a sharp, right-hand turn." It banks to the right and appears to be trying to climb to clear one of the ridges, but it continues to turn to the right and then veers behind a ridge. About a second later it crashes.


2) Ernie Stuhl, the mayor of Shanksville: "I know of two people -- I will not mention names -- that heard a missile. They both live very close, within a couple of hundred yards... This one fellow's served in Vietnam and he says he's heard them, and he heard one that day." He adds that based on what he has learned; F-16's were "very, very close."


3) Laura Temyer of Hooversville: "I didn't see the plane but I heard the plane's engine. Then I heard a loud thump that echoed off the hills and then I heard the plane's engine. I heard two more loud thumps and didn't hear the plane's engine anymore after that" (she insists that people she knows in state law enforcement have privately told her the plane was shot down, and that decompression sucked objects from the aircraft, explaining why there was a wide debris field).


4) Charles Sturtz, a half-mile from the crash site: The plane is heading southeast and has its engines running. No smoke can be seen. "It was really roaring, you know. Like it was trying to go someplace, I guess."


5) Michael Merringer, two miles from the crash site: "I heard the engine gun two different times and then I heard a loud bang"


6) Tim Lensbouer, 300 yards away: "I heard it for 10 or 15 seconds and it sounded like it was going full bore." Accounts have the plane flying upside down.


7) Rob Kimmel, several miles from the crash site: He sees it fly overhead, banking hard to the right. It is 200 feet or less off the ground as it crests a hill to the southeast. "I saw the top of the plane, not the bottom."


8) Eric Peterson of Lambertsville: He sees a plane flying overhead unusually low. The plane seemed to be turning end-over-end as it dropped out of sight behind a tree line.


9) Bob Blair of Stoystown: He sees the plane spiraling and flying upside down before crashing. It�s not much higher than the treetops. Accounts of a sudden plunge and more strange sounds.


10) An unnamed witness says he hears two loud bangs before watching the plane take a downward turn of nearly 90 degrees.


11) Another unnamed witness sees the plane overhead. It makes a high-pitched, screeching sound. The plane then makes a sharp, 90-degree downward turn and crashes.


12) Tom Fritz, about a quarter-mile from the crash site: he hears a sound that "wasn't quite right" and looks up in the sky. "It dropped all of a sudden, like a stone," going "so fast that you couldn't even make out what color it was."


13) Terry Butler, a few miles north of Lambertsville: "It dropped out of the clouds." The plane rose slightly, trying to gain altitude, then "it just went flip to the right and then straight down."


14) Lee Purbaugh, 300 yards away: "There was an incredibly loud rumbling sound and there it was, right there, right above my head � maybe 50 feet up... I saw it rock from side to side then, suddenly, it dipped and dived, nose first, with a huge explosion, into the ground. I knew immediately that no one could possibly have survived."


15) Linda Shepley: She hears a loud bang and sees the plane bank to the side. She sees the plane wobbling right and left, at a low altitude of roughly 2,500 feet, when suddenly the right wing dips straight down, and the plane plunges into the earth. She says had an unobstructed view of Flight 93's final two minutes.


16) Kelly Leverknight in Stony Creek Township of Shanksville: "There was no smoke, it just went straight down. I saw the belly of the plane." It sounds like it is flying low, and its heading east.


17) Tim Thornsberg, working in a nearby strip-mine: "It came in low over the trees and started wobbling. Then it just rolled over and was flying upside down for a few seconds ... and then it kind of stalled and did a nose dive over the trees."


What sense can be made of all these different accounts? Some say it was flying a couple thousand feet up and suddenly plunged down, some say it was flying extremely low. Turns, climbs, strange noises, flipping, etc. While many of these accounts conflict, virtually all support a missile strike, because of the common theme of noises and a plane struggling to rise and stay in the air. The plunge doesn't seem to be a deliberate thrust of the plane towards the ground, but instead the result of engine failure. Other passenger planes hit by missiles continued to fly for several minutes before crashing. For instance, two Russian missiles hit a Korean Airline 747 in 1983, yet it continued to fly for two more minutes.


118) 10:06 a.m.: and after "Lee Purbaugh is one of at least half a dozen named individuals who have reported seeing a second plane flying low and in erratic patterns, not much above treetop level, over the crash site within minutes of United Airlines Flight 93 crashing. They describe the plane as a small, white jet with rear engines and no discernible markings."


Susan Mcelwain saw a small white jet with rear engines and no discernible markings swooped low over her minivan near an intersection and disappeared over a hilltop, nearly clipping the tops of trees lining the ridge. She saw this less than a minute before the United Airlines Flight 93 crash rocked the countryside.


Dennis Decker and Rick Chaney, Decker speaking: "As soon as we looked up , we saw a midsize jet flying low and fast. It appeared to make a loop or part of a circle, and then it turned fast and headed out." Decker and Chaney described the plane as a Lear-jet type, with engines mounted near the tail and painted white with no identifying markings. "It was a jet plane, and it had to be flying real close when that 757 went down. If I was the FBI, I'd find out who was driving that plane."


Jim Brandt and Tom Spinello both report seeing a small plane with no markings stay about one or two minutes over the crash site before leaving. The FBI later says this was a Fairchild Falcon 20 business jet, directed after the crash to fly from 37,000 feet to 5,000 feet and obtain the coordinates for the crash site to help rescuers. The FBI also says there was a C-130 military cargo aircraft flying at 24,000 feet about 17 miles away, but that plane wasn't armed and had no role in the crash. Was the unmarked jet some kind of reconnaissance plane, and the C-130 a cover story for sending fighters in the area?

For more information on United Airlines Flight 93: http://www.Flight93Crash.com

...snip...

http://www.911timeline.net /



Any TIMELY response to the hijackings of 9/11 were thwarted as the result of a STAND DOWN ORDER as described by Minetta. Your goofy bullshit defense of cheeney is not going to change it.

Your ignorance of 9/11 is astounding.

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #115
129. Mineta's mistaken timeline has been discussed here many times.
Mineta couldn't have been in the PEOC at 9:20. Cheney wasn't even there until right before 10:00.

The miles being called out was around 10:15, well after 93 had crashed.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #129
136. BULLSHIT!
All you are capable of doing is changing the history and timeline of events to fit with your agenda. Your silly games aren't working here anymore.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #136
162. No, just the evidence in the matter, which you continue to resist.
As long as you listen to one person against all the other evidence available, you are claiming your own facts in the matter.

You're entitled to your opinions (Cheney is evil - and that's an opinion I share with you), but not your own facts.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #162
166. Ok, man. You're right. Minetta, A GUY WHO WAS IN THE PEOC, was wrong. n/t
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #166
170. Yes, that's right. A range of supporting evidence demonstrates this, as we've discussed before. n/t
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #79
119. the FAA Hijack Coordinator who is the guy who is obligated to pull the trigger for DoD response when
I have no doubt that the "piggybacked" exercises were used as distraction and chaff on 9/11 to provide plausible deniability for the inexcusable fighter response. But a thorough look leads all roads back to one place, the FAA Hijack Coordinator who is the guy who is obligated to pull the trigger for DoD response when certain conditions are met.

This timeline also subtly suggests that warplanes scrambled to protect New York (and failed to do so) somehow could not be used to intercept Flight 77 after the second tower was hit but before the Pentagon crash.

No government official has yet explained the inexcusable nearly half-hour delay for the FAA to tell NORAD that the planes were off course (standard protocol is to notify the Air Force immediately - and NORAD has its own radar systems that track commercial flights).

Does anyone really believe that the FAA waited nearly a half hour to tell the Air Force that Flight 77 had turned around in the direction of the national capital, especially after the World Trade Center buildings had been hit?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #119
133. Flight 77 turned around after turning off its transponder.
No one on the ground knew it had turned back toward the capital.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #133
137. Wrong. n/t
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #137
165. Yes, it did. With what evidence do you say otherwise? Your hunch?
Flight 77 was headed NW. It turned to a Western heading, then turned off its transponder, and then turned around and went East, back toward D.C.

Again, you're entitled to your opinions, but not your own facts.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #165
168. No, it didn't. OK! ANNOUNCEMENT! I'M LEAVING BEFORE I GET TSed.
I know that only certain people here are allowed to break all the rules while others, like BuddyBoy, are TSed or deleted for REACTING to those certain peoples' bullying. So, I am leaving for awhile. It's just htat, when lurking, I cannot resist reacting to the bullying that goes on here and I know that if I do not leave, I will be the one to get TSed. That is despite my honorable participation elsewhere on this website to the tune of 11,000 posts and 3 years time and the fact that NOT A SINGLE POST of mine outside of the Dungeon has EVER BEEN DELETED.

So, you guys have fun and maybe I'll drop in around 9/11.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #168
179. Make sure you come back with those "declarations" and that "report"...
dude.
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Make7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #168
180. Perhaps if you stopped breaking rules, you wouldn't need to worry about being TSed.
 
Subdivisions wrote:
I know that only certain people here are allowed to break all the rules while others, like BuddyBoy, are TSed or deleted for REACTING to those certain peoples' bullying.

BuddyBoy was in violation of DU rules with every post that was made.

If you have been banned from Democratic Underground, you are not permitted to log on again using a different username. Previously banned members will be immediately banned, regardless of behavior.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html


Subdivisions wrote:
It's just that, when lurking, I cannot resist reacting to the bullying that goes on here and I know that if I do not leave, I will be the one to get TSed. That is despite my honorable participation elsewhere on this website to the tune of 11,000 posts and 3 years time and the fact that NOT A SINGLE POST of mine outside of the Dungeon has EVER BEEN DELETED.

Is this an unitentional admission that your posting in the 'September 11' forum is less than honorable? Perhaps not.

This is the second time I have seen you claim that none of your posts outside of the 'September 11' forum have ever been deleted. From reading some of your prior posts, I find that somewhat difficult to believe. Can you answer a question for me? Are any of the deleted messages in the thread linked below your own?

   DU just lost my donation. n/t

Tell the truth.

- Make7
 
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #77
164. Now you're accusing the fighter pilots and their commanders of...
treason? Is there any low to which you won't stoop?
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
40. No
You do know, don't you that pre-911 there was no military radar network surveillance the US landmass? There are no military radars in Kansas for example. The country is too big and the expense too great - not even the FAA traffic control systems has 100 percent coverage.

NORAD's radars are all on the borders looking outwards for threats approaching US airspace. NORAD was designed for military threats - they don't spend billions of dollars and have thousands of people waiting for hijackings that happen every 5 years or so. So no, they do not surveille all of US air space - only that away from our borders. Again, why do you think all the ADIZs were over water? Now, post-911, NORAD and the FAA have tied their C2 systems together so NORAD can see the FAA's radar picture.
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lovepg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Yes and airports never talked to each other on the phone about there planes being
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 01:45 PM by lovepg
High jacked and transponders being turned off before 911. And the military was never alerted when planes were high jacked before 911 either.
Because after all when your waiting on the runway to take off for two hours its almost like you are being high jacked and that happens all the time.
And with only hours warning and absolutely no up to date communication devices how were we supposed to find those jet planes and intercept them.
And everyone knows radar aimed out cannot change direction and aim in unless you get up on the roof and change the direction of the big antenna.
And satellites in constant orbit were not able to read your bumper stickers back then only your license plate numbers. So really with no good tracking devices how were we supposed to do anything??
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #42
65. Thanks for the laugh
1. For the radars - limited range and problems with land masking. Turning them around is not the answer.

2. Satellites can't track airplanes - field of view is way to small. Satellites have to be pointed at predetermined points - they are not search sensors.

3. All you need to do is actually provide some evidence that all these intercept took place. That's all I am asking for - been asking for 8 years now with no answer.

4. There was no hours waring - I suggest you review the time line of when the FAA notified NORAD.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. ...........
(6:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: NORAD on Alert for Emergency Exercises

Early Morning September 11, 2001: Langley Pilot Asks to Be Taken off Alert Later On

(8:13 a.m.-9:28 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Pilots of All Four Hijacked Planes Fail to Dial Standard Distress Code

8:13 a.m. September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Makes Its Last Communication with Air Traffic Control

(Between 8:13 a.m. and 8:21 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Transponder Turned Off

8:14 a.m.-8:24 a.m. September 11, 2001: Air Traffic Controller Repeatedly Tries to Contact Flight 11

(After 8:14 a.m.-8:38 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Pilot Repeatedly Pushes Talk Back Button

(8:15 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight Controllers Cannot Contact Flight 11

8:19 a.m. September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Attendant Ong Phones in Hijack Report, Officials Doubt Validity

8:20 a.m. September 11, 2001: American Airlines Dispatcher Learns of Problem With Flight 11

8:20 a.m. September 11, 2001: Flight 11 IFF Signal Transmission Stops
Flight 11 stops transmitting its IFF (identify friend or foe) beacon signal.

(8:20 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Veers Off Course

(8:20 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Flight Control Thinks Flight 11 May Be Hijacked?

(8:21 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Attendant Ongs Hijacking Account Forwarded to American Airlines Operations Center

(8:21 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Controller Suspects Something Seriously Wrong with Flight 11, but NORAD Not Notified

8:22 a.m. September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Attendant Sweeney Phones in Hijacking Details

(Between 8:22 a.m. and 8:44 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Sweeneys Call Reaches American Headquarters, but Managers Cover Up the News

8:23 a.m.-8:25 a.m. September 11, 2001: American Airlines Operations Center Tries to Contact Flight 11, But Gets No Response

8:24 a.m. September 11, 2001: Boston Air Traffic Controllers Hear Flight 11 Hijacker Say, We Have Some Planes, but Uncertain of Origin of Transmission

(8:25 a.m.-8:35 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Military Liaison Arrives Late at Boston Center, Learns of First Hijacking

(8:25 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Realizes with Certainty that Flight 11 Has Been Hijacked

(8:25 a.m.-8:50 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Office of Management and Budget Deputy Director Speaks with Cheney Neither Can Later Recall What They Discuss

8:25 a.m. September 11, 2001: Boston Center Starts Notifying Chain of Command

8:25 a.m. September 11, 2001: Boston Flight Control Tells Other Centers About Hijack, But Not NORAD

(8:26 a.m.-8:29 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Flight 11 Turns, Many Watch It on Primary Radar

(Between 8:27 a.m. and 8:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Ong Gives Flight 11 Details; Seating Accounts Differ

8:28 a.m. September 11, 2001: FAA Command Center Informed of Flight 11 Hijacking, Establishes Teleconference between Air Traffic Control Centers

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Several Senior Members of FAA Staff Away From Base When Attacks Begin

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Firefighters Who Later Respond to Pentagon Attack Are Attending Antiterrorism Training

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: US Military Holding Practice Armageddon Nationwide Training Exercise

8:30 a.m.-8:40 a.m. September 11, 2001: Managers at FAA Command Center Learn of Flight 11 Hijacking, but Continue with Staff Meeting

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Preparations Underway for IMF/World Bank Meeting in Washington, DC

(8:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Navy Commander Describes Need for Seminal Terrorist Event

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: FAA Hijack Coordinator Responsible for Contacting Military is Out of Contact

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Army Base Near Pentagon Holds Terrorist Attack Exercise

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Preparations Underway in New York for UN General Assembly

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Preparations Underway at Pentagon for President Bushs Arrival Later in the Day

(8:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: American Airlines Vice President Informed of Hijacking, But Unable to Contact Company President

8:30 a.m. September 11, 2001: Rookie in Command of the NMCC

(8:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Some US Leaders Are Scattered; Others in D.C.

8:32 a.m. September 11, 2001: FAA Headquarters Informed of Flight 11 Hijacking, but Does Not Contact the Pentagon to Request Assistance

8:33 a.m. September 11, 2001: Betty Ong Reports Death of Flight 11 Passenger

(8:34 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Air Traffic Controller Takes over Monitoring Flight 11, but Is Unaware It Is Hijacked

8:34 a.m. September 11, 2001: Boston Air Traffic Control Center Calls FAA Facility at Otis Air Base

(8:34 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Center Calls Atlantic City Military Unit to Request Fighters; Outcome of Call Unclear

(8:34 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Flight Control Hears Hijacker Announcement

(8:35 a.m.) September 11, 2001: President Bushs Motorcade Leaves for Elementary School

(8:35 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Center Military Liaison Makes His First Call to NEADS, Though 9/11 Commission Does Not Mention It

(Shortly After 8:34 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Otis Control Tower Calls Otis Operations Center with Details of Hijacking

8:35 a.m.-8:36 a.m. September 11, 2001: American Airlines Supervisor Confirms Details of Slightly Misnamed Hijacker

(8:37 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Center Notifies NEADS of Hijacking, against Normal Procedures; Accounts Conflict over Timing

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #40
63. The Eastern Seaboard is not in Kansas
In fact, it's "on the borders"!! :think:

There was surveillance and information available on 9-11 that was misdirected or not utilized for some reason/s. (See timeline).
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #63
126. Ketchup is not a vegetable.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #40
80. 'There are no military radars in Kansas for example.' Really?


Then how do you suppose McConnell Air Force Base keeps up with all this hardware?

http://www.mcconnell.af.mil/photos/mediagallery.asp?gal...

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
46. "we were talking about routinely intercepting planes due to going off course, losing communications"
which could include hijacked planes.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
44. There's quite a bit of info in the OP "if the OP were true" - you've latched on to one bit
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 02:03 PM by omega minimo
to contest with no evidence to disprove the experience of the quoted person and others who recall this standard policy.

www.flight93crash.com/flight93_military_faq.html
On a newsgroup a former Pentagon Air Force Traffic controller writes: 
"All those years ago when I was in the Pentagon, this wouldn't have happened. ATC Radar images were (and are) available in the understructures of the Pentagon, and any commercial flight within 300 miles of DC that made an abrupt course change toward Washington, turned off their transponder, and refused to communicate with ATC, would have been intercepted at supersonic speeds within a max of 9 minutes by a Fighter out of Andrews. Period. Why these planes weren't, baffles me. If we could get fighters off the ground in 2 minutes then, we could now."

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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #44
61. What a pile of steaming pile of tripe
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 02:40 PM by hack89
an anonymous poster in a newsgroup is evidence? How about some collaborating evidence?

Everyone knows that there were no strip alert fighters at Andrews - this "ATC" is talking out of his ass.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Feel free
You haven't posted any, so far.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. You are new to the debate
everyone of these smoking guns has been debunk. In eight years no truther has ever shown proof of strip alert fighters at Andrews. Never.

They were at Langley and Otis - if you had read the 911 CR you would know that. I see no need to address your ignorance when you refuse to educate yourself on the basic facts.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. You are deflecting, changing the subject, fixing on one point, arguing that ONLY as if that is a
total argument, a be all and end all. If that IS your only point, what is it?
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. Well, that simply isn't true
and there you go drinking that super kool aid where nothing was omitted in the 911 C's Report.

Enjoy your drink, but you don't have the corner on what is true. No one does until we have a commission that hasn't been laced together with vested interests.

The refusal to supplement you own ignorance is stunning.

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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #61
87. So is the internet hack that thinks he knows everything about everything. n/t
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
57. Changes to Norad defence strategy as a result of Sept. 11:
- For the first time in history, NATO radar planes from the 19-member alliance -- countries such as England, Germany and France -- are patrolling U.S. skies to assist Norad's AWACs.

- Air Force generals have been authorized to shoot down hijacked commercial jets threatening U.S. cities without consulting the president first.

- Norad now monitors 40,000 daily flights, adding domestic flights to the 7,000 international flights it formerly tracked.

- New computers in Norad headquarters Command Centre identify every internal North American flight.

- Federal Aviation Administration officials moved into the Command Centre in Cheyenne Mountain, Colo., to liaise round the clock with Norad.

- Now 100 fighter jets stand on constant alert as opposed to 14 in North America prior to Sept. 11.


http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/analysis/norad...
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undergroundrailroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
181. Locking per 911 Guidelines.
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