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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:23 PM
Original message
Bush behind 911, Bush behind latest Osama tape...
LATEST BIN LADEN TAPE ARRANGED BY BUSH & THAT IS THE LEAST OF OUR PROBLEMS (sorry for the length of this, but I feel the topic deserves it)

Ive carefully compiled some VERY startling data about Bush, Osama, and 911. Warning: Most of us have been so conditioned to believe lies that upon hearing the truth, it sounds so outrageous, that we instinctively reject it. When we do show we are open, we are often ridiculed back into unreality. Please consider this information with an open mind, and think outside the box. The truth is fully supported. Each piece of it, alone, even though supported, appears so insane at first, but as we find more and more troubling pieces to the puzzle, all of which are supported by evidence and when taken together, it becomes evident they are true and the story we have been told is the lie.

I will supply some solid links that prove all I say (and you can obtain more links within these, or by your own related Google or other searches and you judge for yourself, but to really understand, you have to become familiar with the pieces of the puzzle). I am sure my data can withstand any test. If it cant and Ive made an error, email me with your evidence. Here goes:

FIRST, Bush and his team (not just in the Administration, but a very large element in all parts of the U.S. government), setup, executed, and covered up 911 (and other past crimes on the people), not Osama or any terrorists. First I will establish they did, then I will show you why.

The following link proves the Pentagon 911 crash was not a terrorist-hijacked commercial jetliner, or any jetliner, but a military missile

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian/Pentagon/w... and
http://www.911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagontrap.htm... and
http://letsroll911.org /
http://www.911uncovered.com/pentagon.html

(And folks, if the Pentagon crash was a missile and not a jetliner, and it was, then all 3 crashes were U.S. military operations, and they were). The following links show that too.

http://letsroll911.org /
http://www.twin-towers.net/tt_video.htm
http://www.rense.com/general57/aale.htm
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/awtc.htm

(Below is a more detailed summary of the evidence of why just the Pentagon crash is a government operation. Space limits more detail, or a similar discussion of why the other 911 crashes also were government operations, but they were, and the links here provided should make that obvious too).

SECOND, The Bush familys true loyalty is to the New World Order http://educate-yourself.org/nwo / via the Skulls and Bones

http://www.bilderberg.org/skulbone.htm (save this page to your hard-disk, particularly the White Paper to the Japanese Govt near the bottom of it)
.
a secret society based at Yale University, which far from being an innocent college fraternity, is the local U.S. richest ruling-class folks branch of a bigger worldwide secret society called the Illuminati,

http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/myron_fagan.h...

formed in the 18th century; whose primary aim is to elevate all its members to positions of power in all nations institutions of influence (government, education, corporations, media, etc.), and from there achieve absolute world rule for them. They specialize in infiltrating and working through intelligence agencies, and the CIA and FBI are controlled by them. They call the overall plan to rule the world The New World Order (NWO). By the way, dont blame me the messenger, but John Kerry is Skulls and Bones too (1966), and that is the only reason he is where he is. Yes, Illuminatis manipulate us by giving us heroes that voice our own philosophies, both left and right, to polarize us even more and get us fighting each other, and distracting us from them. Therefore, the Illuminatis man will be the next President no matter who wins. This is nothing new. I realize that for those not exposed to these things before, it is a lot to take in and digest, and on that I am speaking from personal experience.

THIRD, Osama bin Ladens cover job is terrorist just like George W. Bushs official job is President of the U.S. However OBLs real job is CIA foreign asset or double-agent, which he has been since the 80s in Afghanistan when the CIA set him up to fight the Soviets. Bin Laden is also like Bush an Illuminati (we all know of the Saudi bin Laden familys long and close ties to the Bush family, well Illuminati families have close ties only with other Illuminati families). OBL made the latest tape because Bush forces instructed him to, to help Bush in this election AND more importantly to absolve Bush of responsibility in 911 (in the current tape OBL curiously devotes time to explain why he launched the 911 attacks, AND as many of us know, just as the truth about Bush involvement in 911 is starting to get out, in fact, Bush, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz and others are even being personally sued in a class-action in Federal Court by victims of the World Trade Center for giving the order to launch 911, and what better alibi for Bush & Co than a confession on video tape by a terrorist. Based on this tape, the lawsuit could be thrown out of court, especially if the judge is on the team, which is likely). Later on, the fact it was thrown out by a court will be used as an excuse to shut anyone up about the topic of Bush guilt, if they dare bring it up.

FOURTH, the presence of the Illuminati often explains many otherwise inexplicable events or behaviors of public officials or media, also inconsistent with their own past behaviors and principles, and which often leave us baffled. For instance, Bush effectively pretends to be a conservative and a Christian, but he supports the UN, which conservatives want to abolish (and coincidentally the UN is an integral part of the New World Order). He also supported Sen. Specter of PA in this years primary, a liberal pro-choice Republican (with solid NWO ties) detested by pro-life conservatives, when there was another very strong pro-life conservative candidate (but not NWO). Bush also consistently to the stunned amazement of conservatives backs the Saudi royal family (part of NWO), even though they preach a very anti-Christian religion and are generally detested by conservatives. Similarly, when the media refuses to cover certain stories that should be big stories, if you know the NWO, you will almost always notice that the inconsistent coverage coincidentally helps the NWO.

FINALLY, part of our conditioning over decades has been that when anyone asks a difficult question, they are ridiculed and the word conspiracy theories is thrown out. Also, false debunkings of evidence of conspiracies are raised to the point nobody knows what to believe. But please note this, when theories are supported by concrete evidence, they cease to be theoretical conspiracies, but actual ones. That is what we see over and over in 911.

Ever notice there is no forensic evidence at all that terrorists were behind 911? Ever notice that the governments forensic fingerprints are all over the place in 911, and when explanations are asked for, the only responses received are stonewalling or personal attacks? Why didnt we see this before? Because we didnt look. Why didnt we look? Because the events of 911 were so shocking we automatically assumed this was a foreign attack and in our shock and despair looked to our government, and they fed us the old lone psycho gunman story (the planes were the lone gunmen here), an intricate story away from the scene, in endless news conferences, in flight schools, in foreign countries, in military bases preparing to deploy troops, in carpet bombing, in Iraq, etc. The lone gunman story did make sense, except upon scrutiny, and few of us thought it necessary to engage in it, and if we had, we would have seen it did not square with the facts and the evidence, and those were kept out of sight. Notice also video feed and mention of the details of the 911 attacks has largely disappeared from the media. This is partly because some of the evidence and inconsistencies with the lone psycho gunman story is right in those video feeds and emerges, when put in slow motion and magnified. You can also follow the money. Who benefited from 911? Why the very ones who really launched it, the NWO.

Most of us have grown to despise Bush, but while he was a key 911 player, it wasnt his idea, far from it, nor was he in charge of it, but only a player with a role in it, and when he leaves, he will have successors. The 911 plot was in the works for years before Bush became President. That is obvious. Since it was a complicated inside job requiring careful coordination of advanced technologies and thousands of agents (including arranging for non-existent commercial flights), with the biggest job actually being managing the coverup; this was put in place over a long long time.

In fact, there were hijacking drills for it by various government agencies prior to the event, and on the same day of the event. The drills on the same day for instance in NORAD, also had the effect of confusing through disinformation the national air defenses into not responding (other parts of government not involved in or aware of the 911 operation) by sending up jet fighters over D.C. as they otherwise would, when reports went through the air waves that there were hijackings over or approaching our nations capital. These hijacking reports were interpreted to be just the hijacking drill they were already told was in progress, so they just sat on their butts with the F-16s parked nearby. Those that could have responded were already understaffed, as many of the regular responders were away on other drills far away from their normal home base area. Coincidence? You be the judge. In my opinion these are just some of the intricate details that take so long to plan and put into place.

For those paying attention, the governments behavior has been consistent coverup behavior. If they have nothing to hide, then why do they refuse and stonewall so many requests for information? Why does it quack, walk and talk like a duck, so consistently, if it isnt one?

The 911 Commission was very similar to the Warren Commission, with its objective being not to find the truth, but to hide it.

BRIEF SUMMARY OF 911 PENTAGON CRASH: The Pentagon flight. First, the entry hole into the Pentagon is significantly smaller than the fuselage of an AA 757. This is impossible to explain with physics. The hole and its trajectory is however consistent with a missile. Second, many Pentagon windows and the solid wall where the wings of the jetliner had to impact, were unbroken and showed no damage at all. This is impossible, unless it was a missile. Third, absolutely no large jetliner (or any plane) wreckage, luggage, seats, glass, bodies is/are visible in the photos inside the crash area, and outside the Pentagon. Impossible. Fourth, amazingly no photos or video of an AA 757 approaching and hitting the Pentagon, or personal witness accounts, exist, according to the government. Considering it was the securest military installation in America and in a densely populated area, this is almost impossible. Fifth, several early credible independent witness accounts do exist of a small fighter plane flying very low and shooting a missile into the Pentagon, but they are discounted and ridiculed. Smoking Gun. Sixth, security cameras in a nearby gas station pointed to the crash area in the Pentagon were confiscated by FBI agents promptly after the crash. The film was never returned or released, despite repeated requests by many. Why? You know why. Seventh, months later after many complaints, the Pentagon did release only 5 frames of a security camera video it now admitted it had, showing the explosion and a few seconds before it. Problem: frames were missing and some frames appeared doctored. Problem: unlike in the WTC collisions with planes flying at similar speeds, the Pentagon 757 or any portion of it is not visible at all in the 5 frames and distance they are supposed to cover. This is impossible. Problem: while a jetliner is not visible in the 5 frames (why?), a faint tail of smoke signature of a missile is, barely, and its path is consistent where the hole in the Pentagon ends up in. Problem: the lack of wreckage is blamed on the intense heat generated by the thousands of gallons of jet fuel exploding and creating complete combustion. Baloney, this is not the case historically in other airliner crashes.. However, the actual fire was in fact relatively mild and short in duration to be a jetliner with that much fuel. Cardboard, wood, and other flammable objects inside the Pentagon immediately adjacent to the crash area and even inside it, was untouched by the heat, let alone burned to ashes, not even blackened. A massive explosion with 86 million BTUs would have wiped out and blackened a much bigger area. Again the smaller fire that occurred is consistent with a missile. Eigth: something was retrieved from the site in a box resembling a coffin but twice as long and twice as wide, by several men. The box was covered by blue tarp. Its contents were not revealed. Why? Must have been the missile. Ninth: The government has refused to disclose or show anyone the wreckage if it took it offsite (there was no wreckage). Theres more, but you get the idea.
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KingChicken Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Please be careful with this stuff it is meant to distract you
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 08:29 PM by KingChicken
I have read everything above over and over this summer, trust me a lot of these people (Right-Wing Christans) are trying to get you angry. The long list about the Masons and waht not is mostly crap. NWO is very complex and deep, it can make you want to hide with the tin-foil hat. Focus on election, then go nuts with these theories. (No plane hit the Pentagon though, trust me.)
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. No plane hit the Pentagon though, trust me?????? LOL
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 10:19 AM by WoodrowFan
what was it, a hologram? An optical illusion? a big pinata??

bye bye
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Then show me an airplane?
I still can't find one and I've looked, a lot.

I don't know what happened, but I do know I still haven't seen an airplane.

(Yes, I have seen the video of the object hitting the Pentagon and the fireball. There's not enough there to prove anything, that couldn't easily be photoshopped. Without examining the original video though, we may never know, if it had been doctored or not.)

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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
42. Kidding right?
Looked from where...your chair at your computer desk?

Plenty of good pics posted in the past on this site alone.
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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #42
52. * FREE DOWNLOAD OF COMPL DOCUMENTARY & ALL VIDEOS HERE MENTIONED*
http://question911.com /

2 HOURS OF HIGH QUALITY DOCUMENTARY AND ACTUAL FOOTAGE PROVING GOVERNMENT DID IT NOT THE TERRORISTS.

THANKS TO ERIC SCHUFSMID ( http://www.erichufschmid.net / ) FOR MAKING THIS AVAILABLE FOR FREE. PLEASE TELL OTHERS ABOUT THIS, EVERYONE NEEDS TO SEE THIS.

Summary of the Video's Accusations

Flight 77

There is no evidence of Flight 77 or the dead passengers at the Pentagon.

The Pentagon security video suggests a Global Hawk was shattered by a missile. The missile may have been launched from a defensive missile system around the Pentagon.

The World Trade Center Towers

Explosives were placed in both towers before the attack to cause the towers to disintegrate into dust.

Explosives were detonated via radio by a computer in Building 7.

Building 7

It was a 47 story, steel-framed building that disintegrated later in the day, also from explosives.

The 23rd floor was the Mayors "Emergency Command Center," which had its own air supply. This appears to be the command center for destroying the towers.

Plus, an explanation of turbofans, explosives, the Oklahoma City bombing, the media that Americans mistakenly refer to as our "Free Press," and why deception is the main weapon in this war to control us.
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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. WITHOUT A DOUBT, A MISSILE SHOT BY A REMOTE CONTROL DRONE PLANE
The Pentagon's own 5 video frames DID CLEARLY show a SINGLE WHITE (FROM STEAM) EXHAUST CLOUD preceeding the explosion on the Pentagon.

(They released these to DEBUNK a rumour IN MARCH 2002 that it was a truck bomb. However in doing so, they screwed up, letting go incriminating evidence showing the truth.

Thankfully its VERY SLOPPY GOVERNMENT WORK, because:

1. 757 jet airliners have two engines, so we should have expected TWO, not ONE, exhaust clouds from their 5 video frames if anything. HOWEVER...

2. 757 engines (and ALL other commercial jet engines) DO NOT, REPEAT, DO NOT, PRODUCE WHITE EXHAUST CLOUDS AT GROUND LEVEL, unless it is very cold, below 32 degrees! (and even these take 50 feet cooling time to form)

3. Beside the point anyway, the mornign of 9/11 in D.C. was above 80 degrees! The SINGLE EXHAUST CLOUD there could not have come from 2 airliner engines, or even one of them!

4. MISSILES DO PRODUCE WHITE CLOUDS AT GROUND LEVEL. This is because they, unlike commercial jet engines, use a totally different engine, that burns a high concentration of liquid oxygen fuel that vaporizes immediately INTO STEAM when burned.

5. Another point, the Pentagon lied after 9/11 when it SWORE it had no videos of the blast; but in fact it released 5 frames from a video in March 2002.

SO, WHY DID THE GOVENRMENT LIE FOR 6 MONTHS AFTER 9/11 WHEN IT SAID IT HAD NO PENTAGON VIDEOS?

WHY DID THE GOVERNMENT ONLY RELEASE 5 FRAMES OF THE VIDEO IN MARCH 2002, AND NOT ALL OF THEM? Do you suppose its because they might actually show the missile, the jet fighter that launched it, and not show a jetliner?

WHY WAS THERE ABSOLUTELY NO WRECKAGE, LUGGAGE, OR PASSENGER REMAINS FOUND? which is impossible (AND DETAILED HIGH RESOLUTION PICTURES BOTH INSIDE AND OUTSIDE THE PENTAGON RIGHT AFTER THE BLAST SHOW THIS).








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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. WHY DID THE GOVERNMENT ONLY RELEASE 5 FRAMES?

You are horribly misinformed.

The five frames were not an official release, nor did any one of the original media cover stories refer to them as a "video".

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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. OH REALLY???

I agree with you, the government agrees with you, the 5 frames were not an "official release". So what?

They WERE A LEAK. What matters is that it came from the Government. It doesn't deny that the frames are theirs, they just stated that NOBODY OFFICIALLY RELEASED IT, WHY? BECAUSE TO DO SO WOULD BE FOR SOMEONE BY NAME TO ADMIT HIS/HER EMPLOYER, THE PENTAGON, LIED 6 MONTHS BEFORE IN SAYING VIDEOS DID NOT EXIST.

Bureaucrats may have a lot of incompetencies, but they do know how to survive.

You even question that it was a Video??? Give me a break. Look at the position of the picture taking, it is right next to the Pentagon right before the explosion, stationary, and with time-stamp.

You think that was some person (who knew the attack was coming), taking snapshots at 100 FRAMES PER SECOND???? DO YOU, Mr???

WELL, obviously it was a Video, and if it was a Video (at 100 frames/second), there's lots more video footage where that came from, than just 1/20 th of a second with frames missing from the 5 frame sequence. A LOT MORE.

Therefore the government is deliberately hiding it not because I say so, but by its own admission.



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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. 100 FRAMES PER SECOND????

Does anybody have anything to substantiate any 100 frames per second assertion? I never saw anything to that effect.

The "Car Cam" was obviously set up to monitor vehicles as they passed the entrance booth for the Mall. What then would be the utility of any continuous video recording, whether or not a car was present to record? And if it was a "video" why did no authentic report ever refer to it as such?

I would guess that the camera recording was triggered by movement, whenever an object arrived.

For those more interested in the actual fact rather than the sensational fantasy I dare say that Wanda Ramey may assist. She was the officer on duty at the booth, but has since quit the job.


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
45. You've never heard of a government leak? Welcome to Earth.!
"Never before on democraticunderground did I ever see such a stupid question." (Well, how about just reading your own previous posts just on this thread, if you can stand them).

To answer you, I didn't mean to phrase it as a question, but a statement (the question mark was a typo, sorry it threw you off so much).
---------------------------------------------------------
According to the media (Washington Post ON 3/7/02):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=artic...

"NEW PHOTOS SHOW ATTACK ON PENTAGON"

By Christina Pino-Marina
washingtonpost.com Staff Writer
Thursday, March 7, 2002; 5:46 PM

"A series of five photos obtained Thursday by news organizations shows the first available images of the Pentagon as a plane hijacked by terrorists slammed into the building the morning of Sept. 11.

The photos, which depict a fiery explosion on the building's northwest face, are each dated Sept. 12. Officials say the date may reflect when the images were catalogued by investigators since they are not the actual date of the attack.

CNN first obtained the images and broadcast them Thursday afternoon. Reporter Jamie McIntyre said the photos were captured by a camera at security checkpoint on the grounds surrounding the Pentagon. A bright orange fireball is visible in the photographs but the hijacked American Airlines plane is not clearly visible.

The photos, taken by the camera positioned north of the section of the Pentagon, cover a span of four one-hundredths of a second. The first photo shows a small, blurry, white object near the upper right corner possibly the plane just a few feet above the ground. The second shows a white glow immediately after the impact. In the three remaining photos, a mountain of orange fire and black smoke rises above the building.

Officials from the Pentagon said the photos were not released officially by the Department of Defense. A Pentagon spokeswoman could not verify that they came from surveillance cameras.

"The Pentagon has not released any video or any photos from security cameras from the terrorist attack of Sept. 11," said Pentagon spokeswoman Cheryl Irwin..."
--------------------------------------------------------------
OK, IF YOU STILL DOUBT THAT THESE FRAMES CAME FROM THE PENTAGON, GO AHEAD, BUT MOST REASONABLE PERSONS WON'T DISPUTE THAT
--------------------------------------------------------------
HERE IS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THIS AND OTHER ARTICLES FAILED TO GO INTO, NOR DID THE GOVERNMENT CLEAR UP:

"...The photos, taken by the camera positioned north of the section of the Pentagon, cover a span of four one-hundredths of a second..."

SINCE THE PENTAGON HAD THIS VIDEO COVERING FOUR-TENTHS OF ONE SECOND, THEY OBVIOUSLY HAD MORE THAN JUST FOUR-TENTHS OF ONE SECOND.

IF WHAT CRASHED INTO THE PENTAGON WAS THE AMERICAN AIRLINES 757, ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS RELEASE MORE OF IT, BEFORE AND AFTER THE CRASH, BUT THEY DON'T, THEY HIDE BEHIND SECRECY.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

ALSO,

"Officials say the date may reflect when the images were catalogued by investigators since they are not the actual date of the attack."

Apparently "officials" CONFIRM IT IS THEIR TAPE by explaining why the date of 9/12 (when the investigators they turned the tapes to catalogued them) is stamped on them instead of 9/11.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

You seem a little sharp on details but also seem very eager to ignore the meaningful ones and focus on the totally irrelevant ones.





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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. Deleted message
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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. ABSOLUTELY NO WRECKAGE, LUGGAGE, OR PASSENGER REMAINS FOUND?

You are horribly misinformed.

Wreckage was found. The Flight 77 flight recorder was found. Information was recovered.

The remains of passengers were positively identified at the subsequent autopsy.

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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Again, the misinformed one is you...
The flight recorder was not recovered. If it was, the Government has lied again, because it claims the intense heat incinirated it (those recorders are encased in boxes built to withstand close to 2000 degrees for 30 minutes).

Here's the problem, the fire from the explosion was not too intense, relatively speaking (Inside the Pentagon wreckage, lots of wood beams and even pieces of cardboard survived that fire!).

That is correct, no luggage was retrieved or is visible in any of the high resolution pictures my links show, from both inside and outside the Pentagon crash site. NO WAY SOME LUGGAGE WON'T SURVIVE THAT.

As to passengers, yes, many of them were retrieved, but not from the Pentagon! Funny how they showed up in a military morgue in New Jersey, when a military morgue was available nearby the Pentagon, that was used for the Pentagon victims of that attack.

AS TO THE PLANE WRECKAGE, due to the massive type of plane, 6 tons of plane wreckage should have been found, before you even count several tons of passengers and luggage.

What was found was just ONE 3-foot diameter part of an engine (BUT the TWO 757 ENGINES EACH ARE 9 FEET IN DIAMETER).

This is consistent with the theory a MILITARY DRONE under remote control at 400 MPH (all within its capabilities), launched a missile into the Pentagon and crashed into it.

The DRONES use JUST ONE 3-FOOT DIAMETER ENGINE, consistent with the part found.

DRONES also fly at an altitude of 60,000 feet, which bypasses radar, thus allowing it to quickly appear in the middle of D.C. and descend from that altitude to catch the Pentagon (National Air Defense) by surprise.

There was also an approximate 6=foot piece of aluminum aircraft outside covering all twisted up, which did not appear to be part of the AA 757. It does appear to match part of the DRONE outer shell.

Several men in suits but with their jackets off (FBI types) were also seen and filmed urgently picking up pieces of a small aircraft and disappearing with it, right outside the Pentagon crash, immediately after the crash. I have that video.

You must admit, it goes against all proper protocol AND LAW for anyone to remove evidence from an accident site.

Remember when the last Challenger crashed in Texas and debree scattered over about 3,000 square miles, and lots of people found pieces of it and decided to take a souvenier, then were promptly arrested by the FBI and faced 10 years in prison? I do.

On top of these FBI guys, there is more video that shows about 20 people in civilian clothes lined up about 3 feet from each other in a straight line, directly in front of the Pentagon crash site, slowly moving forward and inspecting every square inch in front of them, and stooping down to pick up little things not visible by the camera.

Do I need to spell out what that was? They were looking for pieces of THE DRONE, and making sure none remained on the ground.

THIS WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF OUR NOSES, IN FRONT OF CNN AND OTHER NETWORKS.

Just go tell your bosses at the Pentagon that there's nothing you can do, because the truth is out there everywhere coming out, in the internet, on CD's, on video tapes, in books already printed and in ones being printed as we speak. Tell them to come clean and try to make a plea-bargain in exchange for the evidence on the big shots.

I'm sure this has failed to convince you. Go ahead, tell me why, I need a good laugh.
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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Another point on the DRONE...
I said "There was also an approximate 6=foot piece of aluminum aircraft outside covering all twisted up, which did not appear to be part of the AA 757. It does appear to match part of the DRONE outer shell."

This piece was the wrong thickness to be part of the 757. Drones are made of extremely thin aluminum to achieve less gross weight and longer flight time with less fuel and needing a smaller quieter engine for stealth during surveillance.

The piece also weighed about 20 lbs. That means that about 11,980 lbs. out of about 12,000 lbs of wreckage is unnacounted for and just "disappeared."

But you know what? Things don't disappear in real-life.
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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Things don't disappear in real-life.
That's right. So how come then that nobody saw any drone?

Hundreds of people saw an airliner. The notion that only 20 lbs of wreckage survived is a risible fiction.

Fact: Not one person who was there to see for themselves has since been known to doubt that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. The Linda E. vanished in real life
with Ted Olson's cousins.
Then Barby the Harpy went bye bye.

Tell us RH, what happened to her body?
Where is she now?

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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #21
27.  The flight recorder was recovered
The fact was reported,

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/september01/wash_9-...

as was the subsequent extraction of information.

As were subsequent FOIA attempts to get the information:
http://www.911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/evidence/t...


The matter has been discussed on DU threads on many previous occassions.
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. 911 Commission Report says:
The CVRs and FDRs from American 11 and United 175 were not found,
and the CVR from American Flight 77 was badly burned
and not recoverable. See FBI report,"CVR from UA Flight #93," Dec. 4, 2003;
http://www.faqs.org/docs/911/911Report-473.html

Read that again:
"the CVR from American Flight 77 was badly burned and not recoverable."

THERE IS NO EXCUSE
FOR THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR COMING FROM A SPECIALLY DESIGNED BLACK BOX.

Jan. 22, 2004 17:32 | Updated Jan. 22, 2004 19:01
Yediot Aharonot disclosed on Thursday that some months ago, sections of Ramon's personal diary -- handwritten in Hebrew -- during his last days on the ill-fated space shuttle were recovered in Texas by a Native American tracker. The pieces of paper had somehow survived 1,800-degree heat during the explosion that occurred some 60 kilometers above the earth. Neither the Indian nor the US National Aeronautics and Space Administration could make head or tail out of the unfamiliar Hebrew squiggles. So NASA sent the pages to Rona Ramon, Ilan's widow, who was still in Houston. She immediately identified it as her husband's writing.

The emotional story will be presented in full in a film to be broadcast on Tuesday by Channel Two. The date of the crash was February 1, 2003. In his notes, Ramon expresses his excitement and feeling of good fortune to be aboard the spacecraft and to enjoy views of the Earth and the "thin layer of atmosphere."

Since part of the text was destroyed and the pages were full of holes, Ramon's widow sent the diary to the criminal investigation unit of the Israel Police, which used advanced optical scanners to fill in the lacunae. The film will be presented Monday in a special showing for the family at the Israel Air Force House in Herzliya.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/J...

If PAPER could survive
1,800-degree heat
during the explosion that occurred some 60 kilometers above the earth
then WTF is WRONG with the CVRs on Boeing 757s?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
impe Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Yes Welcome!


You're absolutely right about the exhaust! Also, we have never been told what was under the
blue tarp that was removed from the pentagon.

Please make a copy of that personal video and be careful!

I always thought the pentagon was hit by a missle from a Fighter jet....a patriot...because of the WTC inferno.

Why do you think "they" hit the pentagon other than to silence those involved in the war games planning?
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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. removed from the pentagon?

The "blue tarp" in the often reproduced photo was obviously carried towards the Pentagon, not away from it. To locate the circumstance the Navy Annex is perfectly evident in the background. Nothing in that vicinity was carried away from the Pentagon. Debris was removed in the opposite direction, to the North Car Park.



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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #34
48. Thanks, here is the link to the video...
http://www.erichufschmid.net/PainfulQuestionsBook.html

The video clip you requested (and lots of other ones) are in this DVD, which is offered for $12 including postage by Eric Schufschmid (no affiliation to me).

The documentary is called "A Video Supplement to the Book 'Painful Deceptions' An Analysis of the September 11th Attack"

It is 2 hours long and is excellent.

This man is an experienced scientist and this is a solid piece of work. It completely shreds the government versions of all 3 attacks.

I downloaded it from Kazaa (its 396 MB) but am going to buy it because its worth a lot more than that, want to show it to others, and because this guy dedicated himself to this and deserves my support.

There's other good videos out there showing even more evidence.

Its important the truth get out.
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #21
44. I thought you said there was NO wreckage?
What was found was just ONE 3-foot diameter part of an engine (BUT the TWO 757 ENGINES EACH ARE 9 FEET IN DIAMETER).

You don't know your engines. The engine disk found from the Rolls-Royce RB211 is not the intake fan but the compressor disk, which matches the dimentions perfectly.

DRONES also fly at an altitude of 60,000 feet, which bypasses radar, thus allowing it to quickly appear in the middle of D.C. and descend from that altitude to catch the Pentagon (National Air Defense) by surprise.

60,000 feet bypasses radar? How do you figure?


I'm sure this has failed to convince you. Go ahead, tell me why, I need a good laugh.

Thanks for the good laugh!
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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. True, I don't know my engines...I never claimed to.

The point is two 757 engines were not found and for the government story to be valid they had to be.

Glad I gave you a laugh but I got the last one, you missed the main point: no wreckage and you want to crucify me for not knowing my engines...

I know wreckage does not disappear.
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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. two 757 engines were not found ?
Edited on Sat Nov-06-04 12:25 AM by RH
You have an affidavit to that effect, do you?

Or is the notion absolutely nothing but a fantastic fabrication?

Do you seriously think that the people who cleared it all up and sifted through the wreckage had no idea of what they were doing and what they were dealing with?

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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Are you for real?
Do I have an affidavit to that effect????

Of course not, but would it make you feel better if I executed an affidavit to certify that I saw many relevant FEMA high-resolution images of the affected areas of the crash site, and from several other sources, and saw absolutely no wreckage where 80 tons of it should have been???? I and many othersa could do that because I(we)did see such images and more, but I'm sure the government would ignore us.

Sounds like you did not view the images I provided links to when you criticized them.

"Or is the notion absolutely nothing but a fantastic fabrication?"

LOL. No its not a fabrication in the slightest, and many of them are directly from the government.

Remember the only one withholding evidence and answers to reasonable questions about the 911 crashes is the government, in behavior that smacks of a large and deeply corrupt and evil coverup. Seems to me they owe the public a clarification on such a tragic national event.

If they have nothing to hide, let them release all videos and images, and let the public inspect the actual 80-tons of wreckage it reportedly recovered from the crash, which was not visible in any of the imagery (surely since it is evidence, it is still in some government warehouse somewhere, right?).

You seem to think and talk like a naive lawyer in this and other posts, here suggesting that if there is no legal affidavit on this information then it could not possibly be true, or conversely, implying that if there was an affidavit, that it must be true.

Either you are pretending the government is saintly and not an expert at using the legal process to subvert the law, itself a violation of the law (with every motive to do it here), or you are very naive.

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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. Naive?

Rational!

Rules of evidence and jurisprudence. That is how I prefer to Judge.

According to what would you prefer to be Judged? Would you prefer to be tried and sentenced by the proper principles of a Court of Law, or by anonymous postings to Internet message boards?

Public access was allowed. Flight attendant Carter, for instance, has sworn an affidavit to the effect that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. If you've got nothing better, nothing to prove it false, which you obviously have not, than it stands good. She was there. She saw the evidence in situ, invited to do so. She knew the plane. Her opinion is valid.

By way of a contrast, if you were not there to experience the event then your opinion of the Internet is of no use or interest. Period. Other people may experience that for themselves. Your assistance is not required, especially if as would appear to be the case you have nothing to say about it that was not already heard many times over more than two years ago.

There is no general right of public access to seized evidence.

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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Well well
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 11:10 PM by DulceDecorum
Apparently all we need to do is present an affidavit and case closed.

T Carter has YET to produce ANY proof whatsoever
that she has ever been employed by ANYONE.
Her word is worth less than used Kleenex.


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demodewd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
40. answers
Wreckage was found
Why isn't the purported reassemblage of the wreckage open to public view like what is standard in all other post crash procedures? I have seen no luggage. Why weren't human remains splattered all over the lawn and highway like lots of other airplane stuff?

The Flight 77 flight recorder was found
Well lets hear it...oh I forgot.... we're just children and they're our leaders...
The remains of passengers were positively identified at the subsequent autopsy.

Allegedly but there's no way for the average citizen to prove it. It has not been substantiated in a court of law. Therefore it is essentially untenable and nothing more than hearsay.
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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Average citizens

cleared up the mess. Debris was assembled in the Pentagon North Car Park, as anybody nearby could see.

I do not know that no remains were found outside the Pentagon. Do you have anything to prove that? Was that substantiated in a court of law?

The fact of the mass murder has been substatiated in a Court of Law. Mounir el Motassadeq, a 30-year-old Moroccan is charged with complicity. The fact of the matter in question does not appear to have been contested in Hamburg and if his defenders were crazy enough to attempt to do so I have no doubt that the attempt would backfire.
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #41
58. Torture and fantasies
Mounir al-Motassadek is the only person anywhere in the world to have been convicted in connection with the 11 September attacks.
But Germany's Supreme Court threw the verdict out and ordered a retrial a year after his conviction.
The Moroccan was originally sentenced to 15 years in prison by a court in Hamburg for his alleged role in the hijacks.
But the top court later ruled he had been denied a fair trial because the US refused his defence access to a suspect Washington holds.
Information used in Mr Motassadek's trial was believed to have come from the internee, Ramzi Binalshibh.
Mr Motassadek's defence said there was no way to cross-examine the evidence - or even know for sure where it came from.
The prosecution in the retrial had hoped US intelligence agencies would reveal more information about their sources.
But the Justice Department said it would not allow al-Qaeda suspects in US custody to testify.
The defence argues that any information coming from THE US GOVERNMENT may have been got by TORTURING SUSPECTS, and is therefore unreliable.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2223152.stm

"There are cases where people have a lot of FANTASIES - I don't know if you are one of those cases," Schudt told Luetz.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/0032004102621...

What damn law permits this kind of crap?
Oh, sorry,
I forgot about the Patriot Act for a minute there.
Still living in the 20th Century, I am.

And what bloody mass murder are you talking about?
NY Governor Pataki's two affidavits per
person-whose-existence-cannot-otherwise be-verified?

Hey RH, tell us
HOW did Ramzi get a US Social Security number (Ryan Allen)
when he NEVER EVER SET FOOT IN THE US?
You and your buddies are welcome to swear out an affidavit on the subject.
Most of us know exactly where we will file it.
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
43. You're kidding right?
MISSILES DO PRODUCE WHITE CLOUDS AT GROUND LEVEL. This is because they, unlike commercial jet engines, use a totally different engine, that burns a high concentration of liquid oxygen fuel that vaporizes immediately INTO STEAM when burned.

Oh do they? Assuming this was an ALCM like the AGM-86 it has a turbofan engine. NO military missile uses liquid oxygen fuel...it is all solid fuel.

WHY WAS THERE ABSOLUTELY NO WRECKAGE, LUGGAGE, OR PASSENGER REMAINS FOUND? which is impossible (AND DETAILED HIGH RESOLUTION PICTURES BOTH INSIDE AND OUTSIDE THE PENTAGON RIGHT AFTER THE BLAST SHOW THIS).

Again you are kidding right? You haven't been around here long have you. Plenty of pics...of course your types have discounted the wreckage as fake, planted, not from a 757.
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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #43
50. No I'm not kidding, not at all...

You are right, I misspoke to say "liquid oxygen" and should have said "solid oxygen" fuel.

However that does not change the fact that it was a missile.

"Again you are kidding right? You haven't been around here long have you. Plenty of pics...of course your types have discounted the wreckage as fake, planted, not from a 757."

Again no I'm not kidding and true I haven't been around here long.

Glad to hear there are plenty of pics (showing wreckage), why don't you provide me just one link to help me out if you can.

I did look at about 3 dozen FEMA high resolution pics from their images web-site, of inside and outside the crash site.

80 TONS OF PLANE, NO WRECKAGE (that's why I posted this thread)

(except the couple of small planted pieces already noted).
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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. Not "solid oxygen" fuel...
Missiles either use liquid fuel (liquids that are combined to produce combustion, one of which is liquid oxygen) or solid fuel (not solid oxygen). Solid fuels ("propellants") contain the oxygen used in combustion, but aren't composed entirely of solid oxygen, as that would be rather difficult to maintain (oxygen has a pretty low melting point, about -369 deg. F at 1 atm).

If you're interested, here are some links from the Federation of American Scientists that cover the basics:

Rockets for Rookies

Scroll down to the bottom of this link to get some good info on different kinds of propellants
Rocket Basics

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MrSammo1 Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
60. It was not
a 757!

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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Lets look at this pic
Much smoke obscuration, but see were the flame is? thats where the fuselage hit. Hole extends left to aprox the middle of the three fire-fighters.

Notice all the exposed I-beams? Caused by wing impact.

757 came in from the right, path right over the fire-fighter on the right. See the generator on the right? most likely struck by the right engine.

Why no obvious burn/wreckage? HUGE burn visible in other pics to the LEFT of the firetruck in the pic due to flame/debris carried by momentum of the aircraft.

IF it was a missile/bomb we would see extensive vertical damage to the Pentagon and debris from the building everywhere. Proof that high order explosives were not involved.
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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Don't worry about me...
I can filter out any right-wing Christian distortions meant to scare me.

I wasn't referring to Masons, I don't know any but I also don't know of any problems with them. I don't think Skulls & Bones are Masons, or they could be affiliated, but the Bonesmen are something else too that is beyond Masons.

Like "The New World Order" (NWO)? Yes, I agree with you, complex, deep, and I would add, very very scary. Which is exactly why more open discussion about them is needed, and why we all need to face this problem. If it scares, that must be the first warning.

George Bush SENIOR (for some reason present at the scene of just about all outrageous government crimes since the late 50's) has always been very involved in NWO too, and when he was President he even used that term explicitly in some speeches, until somebody told him that people were figuring out what it was I guess.

At the time (and I thought "New World Order" was just a different foreign affairs buzzword and without knowing what I was talking about it even sounded good) but my Dad lectured me about the real meaning, and not that I was trying to defend Bush at all, but I just couldn't believe him because I thought it was way too conspiratory.

Later I educated myself and if anything my Dad understated it!

I never forgot that and this is why I deeply suspected The Shrub before I even knew much about him. I've watched him closely from this angle since 2000, and I've noticed many times how he's shown his NWO loyalty and tendencies. Many signs are subtle, others like 911 are not, but the case is overwhelming.

Believe me, on NWO, GWB is focused, in fact, THAT EXPLAINS WHY 911 WAS PERPETRATED ON US. The JFK assassination was an NWO operation too, and there were many more shocking events in-between.

After a pause, they'll be back for more unless stopped, which is more easily said than done, that is why when I say its scary I am not exagerating.

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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. FORGOT LINKS ON LAWSUIT AGAINST BUSH...
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Go with it. You've presented it in an easy to understand way.
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 08:51 PM by higher class
If they did it, it has to be analyzed minute by minute, testimony by testimony - BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT INVESTIGATING IT. The Commission Report is a pass. But, in their defense, what they did was the only investigation that the Bush admin permitted = they were only allowed to examine the event from an intelligence point of view. NO ONE is conducting a criminal investigation except the citizens. Something as blatant as the put-options and trading of the airlines and investment companies was thrown out by Ashcroft and friends.

Please add the link that involves transponders and a time-line with the theory about how the aircraft id's could have been switched and all the passengers moved on to one aircraft - the one that went down in PA.

Yes, NO 757 hit the Pentagon.

They ALWAYS think we are stupid.

Go with it. Someone has to.
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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Link for topics of transponders and supposedly missing passengers...
http://www.public-action.com/911/bumble.html

What the evidence does show is that the commercial jetliners the government says crashed that day, did not crash in the WTC and Pentagon, and the planes that did crash into WTC were crashed by remote control, not suicide pilots.

Now, what happened to the flights and passengers, if the flights even took place, is another topic, and many options are possible. They could be in the ocean, or they could now be part of the CIA plane fleet (with shiny new logo's and colors of course).

If the flights were fake, the passengers were too, and many of our operatives made a lot of fake emotional phone calls to provide the cover story. This can be arranged by the government if it wants to.

If the flights did take place, it's theorized the planes with unusually low # of passengers were forced to land on a nearby military base, using any pretext, such as there was an emergency taking place (note, all planes in the U.S. were ordered down soon after, which provides cover for the first such orders to go down, if ever discovered) where they were then loaded into another plane (the 4th plane) and crashed into the PA field, thus taking the secret down with them. Hey, if they can launch 911 into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, crashing one plane with civilian passengers onto a field is nothing.

Simultaneous to the diversion of the airliners to the military base then, separate military planes would have been substituted for the real planes, when the real planes' transponders were turned off and flown back to explode.

The transponders only transmit flight # and altitude. By substituting a military plane right when the transponder is turned off, on radar the plane (without flight #) is still there, and seamlessly appears to change course, consistent with the story given to the public.

What happened to these planes or if they existed, is interesting but not the important thing, what matters is whether 911 was a government operation.



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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thanks for the link - there is another one that involves a passenger
consolidation at Harrisburg, PA with a time-line and a pretend
dialogue of what the passengers could have been told. Chilling.

I can't get at the other link right now - it's impressive because of the time line and the way it shows the switch of aircraft numbers relative to radar and transponders and what we were told about the erratic, sharp turned flight paths and the confusion in the air which resulted in the belief for a time that 11 aircraft were hijacked.

I don't see how the passengers could be faked. Flight crews. Compensation to nearly 3000 families. Law suits.


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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. About those pilots, passengers and planes
higher class says:
I don't see how the passengers could be faked. Flight crews. Compensation to nearly 3000 families. Law suits.

Many are those who did not see how the cremation of their dead relatives could be faked.
Have you yet heard of the TriState Crematory?

Please see:

The pilots and the planes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The Pilots and the Planes: Part 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Post#55
The Victims
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The Passengers and the Planes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
59. In which of those did you claim that Todd Beamer never existed, DD?
I don't have the time to sort through them all...

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fellowtraveller Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Heil Bush!
Bush wants to own the state. Bush wants to own the church!
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DMIO Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's quite likely in my view
I've suggested this is the most probable scenario since it happened.
Look at the election in 2000 and upheaval it created just getting Bush in office at any cost. When he took a vacation to the farm for months on end it left me wondering if something was up and he was awaiting the event. When the morning of 9/11 came I sit in my home
watching the replay and thinking of the things I just mentioned, and their relationship.

The relationship with Osama in this scheme is to have an elusive villan with which to lead public opinion. If he would have been caputred or killed then the mission would be accomplished, but Haliburton, the Pharmaceutical Industry, and the Munitions boys in the back room would loose their free ride on the gravy train.

Americans have been led by the nose after WMD's, Sadam, Yellow Cake, the crusade to bring Democracy to the middle east, and the hunt for Osama by President Bush, until it begins to look to look like Hernando de Soto's troops in quest for the seven cities of gold. Recently Israel was supposed to have acquired fifty F 15 long range fighters and the skies over many states are full of practicing Bomber contrails just as it was before we went into Iraq. Could Osama be in Iran? Reelect Bush and find out. If he isn't there, then there is North Korea or Cuba.

I see Bush like a small child holding a doll in each hand. One of Osama with Bush mimicing his voice saying, I'll kill you American dog.
In the other hand a doll representing an American citizen with Bush minicing a voice saying, protect me please Mr Bush. And Bush giggles like a small child with the power he wields over the two toys.

DMIO



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chinacatsunflower Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. this stuff scares the piss out of me
this stuff scares the shit out of me....but educate-yourself.com is an interesting site! definetly informative
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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Scares me too, and most people...
That is why most people won't talk about stuff like this. They don't want to think about it but it just invites more bad things to happen. Bullies take advantage of weakness.

DOESN'T THE FOLLOWING 1990 QUOTE APPLY TO GEORGE W BUSH TOO? CAN YOU SPELL PROPHETIC? (and 911 was needed to trigger it)

( http://www.bilderberg.org/skulbone.htm )

"According to the recent biography of Henry Stimson, the man who inspired President Bush was firmly convinced that it was essential for America to go to war once every generation or so. It was, for Stimson, a spiritually cleansing process which enables the nation to rally behind a cause and overcome its weaknesses and shortcomings in one grand burst of military fervor. The romantic mystique of the purgative powers of combat is key to understanding the political philosophy of Skull & Bones."

(YES, SKULLS AND BONES, BUSH AND KERRY BOTH...Stimson was also a Skulls & Bones guy, and he was the Sec of State under FDR who it is said lured Japan into attacking us in Pearl Harbor, so we could get in WWII, which FDR wanted probably for similar reasons).

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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Well stated, I agree...
Also, Bush was only trying to keep his 2000 campaign promise to be a "uniter not a divider" when everybody got united after he and his people launched 911, then Afghanistan, then the "axis of evil" then Iraq, etc.

I guess many of us never really understood what he exactly meant by being a uniter, which for a Republican sounded good at the time.

Just one point about what you said though.

If the Pentagon was an inside job, which this evidence basically proves (read that again, "PROVES"), then all 3 911 attacks and the 4th "hijacking" had to be inside jobs too.

This means that Osama Bin Laden was not who we were told he was. It means he was a patsy, setup to take the rap, maybe in previous attacks of the 90's too (I mean if they did this here, why not in other places, using patsies is their MO).

It means Osama may even be a CIA foreign asset, PROTECTED by us and ready to get Bush a video to help him in his election, just days before the vote, in which HE ACTUALLY CONFESSES TO 911 even though the evidence shows he didn't do it?

Who would confess to something he didn't do, that could get you killed for doing it, and that is nothing new because that story was already believed by everybody anyway?

NO, Osama if he was a real terrorist, would make a tape to threaten more attacks, make new demands, or send coded messages to his hidden cells; NOT CONFESS TO A CRIME BUSH IS BEING ACCUSED OF.

THAT'S THE KEY. IF OSAMA HATES BUSH, AND IF YOU HAD TO SUPPOSEDLY LIVE IN CAVES THE REST OF YOUR LIFE BECAUSE OF BUSH, WOULDN'T YOU HATE HIM?

THEREFORE, IF OSAMA HATES BUSH, WOULD OSAMA GET BUSH OFF THE HOOK BY CONFESSING TO CRIMES BUSH HAS TO DEFEND HIMSELF AGAINST IN FEDERAL COURT.

I'M NOT KIDDING YOU, LOOK AT THE LINKS FOR THE LAWSUIT I PROVIDED IN THE 2ND OR 3RD MESSAGES ABOVE. THE CASE IS IN COURT AND BUSH'S ATTORNEY HAS TO RESPOND TO IT.

It's a class-action suit, brought by some few hundred 911 families who are suing Bush personally for giving the order for 911.

This taped "confession" early Christmas present by Osama just falls in his lap????

Please, I'm not perfect by any means, but I wasn't born yesterday.


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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. How does bush get Osama to make a video for him?

All Bushy has to do is pick up the phone and say,

Boosh: "Osama baby, been a long time...how you doin man? and how's the old "cave" he he?" "Hey man, I need another big favor. You see I'm gettin sued by a bunch of survivors of the twin towers and I need a real good rock-solid alliby for court, you know, a confession to 911 on video, got that? and make sure Al Jazeera gets it before the election..don't worry bout it we'll keep you safe..."

OBL: "Mr. President, ohhhh I gotcha, no problemo, you know you can count on me..."

Boosh: "Great! hey gotta run, say hello to the family.." click.
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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. The less you know
about the reality, the easier it is to speculate, right?

Or was there something else that you hope to prove?

:shrug:

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Don't call me freeper and why do you stick up for Bush?
Read my message above, #13, it's shorter so I'm sure you should be able to handle it.

I cited government supplied photographs, and scientific evidence, and provide you links where you can see them for yourself, you cite only Bush Government planted "witnesses". Duh, they're part of this thing, what do you expect them to say?

Anyway they're just quotes, my evidence is hard evidence.

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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. The local T***ls abuse anyone who doubts Bush
and they are undeterred by logic.

Have you EVER seen a freeper suggest that 911 did not happen the way Rove says it did?

As for those names we have been given,
cross checks on databases have demonstrated that we are not being told the truth.

Welcome to the Democratic underground, VIHMH5L50P.
Please do not allow "the Sisters" to drive you away.
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VIHMH5L50P Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Thanks...
I saw the link you provided on a separate thread of yours, about passenger lists, airliner registrations, Social Security numbers, etc.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Very interesting.

However it seems the important thing is to prove that the attacks were an inside job, and sufficient evidence has emerged to prove that.

Your information indicates the same thing but not conclusively if they argue it was a slow record-keeping issue on their part.

Also, another point for your threat occurred to me.

It appears the military or CIA used up at least 2 modified commercial cargo or passenger planes in the real attacks. Well, they could have used the United and AA airliners to replace the ones they wasted, and they would not care about registration or other paperwork.

These "non-existent" airliners would probably be very valuable to them. After some modification to conceal any trace of origin, nobody would know they had them so they could run all kinds of nasty secret missions with them.

Well must now sweat some bullets and watch some election coverage...
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Ever heard of Conair?
The US Federal Marshals run a whole entire airline transporting convicts and aliens. Nobody knows if or when those planes take off, nor from where.

Then there is "the Boneyard" over in Davis-Monthan AFB in Tucson, Arizona. That's where old planes, and even new ones, go to sit.
Also Dyess AFB in Abilene, Texas.
Lots of planes there to fool around with.

Furthermore, as we have seen in the case of n4610 and the mercenaries, former Air National Guard planes can be properly registered to covert operatives.
And then there is always the plane that vanished from Angola,
not to mention the two American Airlines 911 planes.

As for the record keeping issue, I am not sure that ARINC, the private company that maintains the ACARS records, would be trashed.
If the BTS data for United Airlines or American Airlines is erroneous, then it can only mean that ARINC cannot be trusted. This will throw US and international air traffic control into a tizzy since ARINC pretty much maintains a global monopoly.

And now, back to poll-watching.
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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Just for the record...
I live in Tucson, Arizona, and I have seen you post about the "boneyard" here before. I wanted to let you know that there is more than one "boneyard" here. The one over by DM has about 5,000 planes, and then the one east of I-10 between Tucson and Casa Grande has an unknown number.

It is impossible to know what is parked out there. I work occasionally at a flight simulator place here, and I know a lot of ex-military pilots who are still connected with their active peers, and we hear all the time from pilots who have dropped off another plane (or two) at one of the boneyards. You would never know if the government wanted to stash something there for a while, or if it brought something out of one of the yards, because the traffic into DM airspace is pretty heavy, and I don't know if you can even get close enough to the desert stashes to see incoming planes.

I know this may not be new info to you, but I had to post something here (as opposed to Elections forums) in order to feel somewhat sane... :)
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MrSammo1 Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
36. You speak
too much sense.......American, Too stupid to survive!
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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
55. For those who missed

the abundance of previous DU threads about the Pentagon:

1. The entry hole into the Pentagon was not significantly smaller than the fuselage of an AA 757. This is perfectly possible to verify, and has been verified many times over. The dimensions of the Pentagon architecture are not a secret.

The hole and its trajectory are obviously not consitent with a missile. A missile would not possibly have felled five lamp poles with an implied wingspan of at least 90 feet, nor would a missile have moved a thirty ton electricity generator towards the building.

2. Every one of the recently renovated Pentagon blast resistant windows, nearly two inches thick, that were directly in line with the wings or fuselage of the aircraft was either broken or completely missing after impact. Parts of the stone wall were also damaged, consistent with the wingspan of a B757. A section of the ground floor wall about 90 feet wide was demolished by the impact, with steel columns missing.

3. Jetliner wreckage, body parts, seats, and other debris were most certainly evident to people at the scene, within the building and outside, even on and near to Washington Boulevard. An autopsy positively identified passengers. The Flight 77 Black Box Flight Recorder was recovered from the scene.

4. An abundance of personal witness accounts, exist. Hundreds of people saw the aircraft approach the Pentagon at tree top height. Dozens of people saw it hit the building. Not one person who was there to see for themselves is known to have any doubt that Flight 77 hit the building.

5. Not one person independent or otherwise saw a small fighter plane flying very low and shooting a missile into the Pentagon, or anything like it. The notion is a fiction.

6. The FBI is not a PR firm. The FBI gather evidence and the FBI is then responsible to keep the evidence. That is their job. Other people who say that a service station camera was pointed at the Pentagon do not in fact know what it was pointed at. Security cameras routinely focus upon an immediate vicinity, not the sky or distant buildings.

7. The Pentagon did not release 5 frames of a security video. It was not an official release and no original news story referred to it as a video. The notion that frames were missing is therefore a conjectural fabrication, not yet seen to be substantiated by anything at all.

8. The box was covered by blue tarp was being moved towards the Pentagon, not away from it. This is pefrectly evident from the photo in question, the location of which is. There is no reason whatsoever to suppose that it contained anything to be removed from the Pentagon. The notion that its contents were never revealed is a romantic fabrication. Debris removed from the Pentagon was moved in another direction, to the North Car Park.

9. The government has definitely not refused to disclose or show anyone the wreckage. Flight Attendant Carter who usually worked the Flight 77 route has signed a sworn affidavit to the effect that she did see wreckage, in situ at the Pentagon, recognisable as being from the airframe she knew.

There may be no end to the ignorant crap that would have us believe otherwise but you get the idea.

What a complete waste of time!

:boring:


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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
56. Why is my spider sense tingling? (nt).
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