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If Lee Harvey Oswald didn't kill JFK or wasn't a lone gunman, who did?

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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:04 AM
Original message
If Lee Harvey Oswald didn't kill JFK or wasn't a lone gunman, who did?
If there's so much evidence for a conspiracy, than why don't people name names and organizations?
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. You want the name of an organization? OK
The Bush Crime Family.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. So it seems. n/t
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. And your evidence for this is....
Wait, wait, don't tell me.

George H. W. Bush was in Dallas on the day JFK was killed.

The CIA was involved in the assassination.

Bush was director of the CIA for one year in the 1970s.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
30. The Bush Crime Family FOUNDED the fucking CIA
And Poppy was employed by them the minute he graduated from Yale. He was the supervisor of the Bay of Pigs operation (which went as well as any other Bush Crime Family invasion) and yes, he was in Dallas on 11-22-63. So was Nixon, who was Prescott Bush's political protege. And Jack Ruby was also connected to Nixon and Prescott Bush, way back to 1947.
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #30
55. James Jesus Angleton, Allen W. Dulles, David Atlee Phillips, Gerry Patrick Hemming...
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #55
77. "I was not privy to who struck John." James Jesus Angleton (CIA); 1976
"The world will never know the true facts.." Jack Ruby;1963

"Yes, there will come a time, but it might not be in your life time. I am not referring to anything especially, but there may be some things that would involve national security." Chief Justice Earl Warren; February 5, 1964

"There were many rooms in the mansion. I was not privy to who struck John." James Jesus Angleton(CIA);1976



http://www.ctka.net/pr700-ang.html
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #77
88. "(the Warren Commission) was the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated,"
Friday, 1 March, 2002, 09:50 GMT
Revelations and gaps on Nixon tapes

In the same conversation, Nixon gave new fodder for conspiracy theorists who question whether Lee Harvey Oswald was the only shooter involved in the assassination of President John Kennedy.

Referring to the report by the Warren Commission, "it was the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated," Nixon said. He did not elaborate why he questioned the report.

The tapes also record a conversation between President Nixon and former Treasury Secretary John Connally who was in the car with President Kennedy when he was killed.

It contains graphic details of the shooting.

"I was lying... down on (wife) Nellie's lap like this to shield her head on top of me and I had my eyes open and I heard that bullet hit his head ... I knew he was dead," Mr Connally said...

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MinM/274
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. This bullshit again....
typical CT clipped/out of context quote:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/nixon_hoax.htm
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #77
107. Amazing what lengths Jack Ruby went to to try to let the public
know what had actually happened -- !!

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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #30
80. I thought Poppy gave it away at Ford's funeral
when he started babbling that you could trust the Warren Report because Ford was on the committee. His was about the only mention made after Ford's death that Gerry had been part of the cover up. I figured Poppy was feeling the heat.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #80
101. Since the death of Bill Buckley/CIA... we know that Gerry Ford was financed by CIA funds . . .
evidently a few memos have come floating out --

The CIA which took money from any right wing sources -- including KKK, Nazis and John Birchers --

was funding campaigns of right wing members of Congress -- two of those mentioned were

Sen. Strom Thurmond and Rep. Gerald Ford -- there were others -- they're the only names I'm

familiar with in Congress --

Pat Buchanan also got CIA money --

And when the news came out that Ford had worked to have the wound in JFK's right rear shoulder

moved up there was no challenge from what we have left of what we call our press!!

The wound was actually in JFK's shoulder and made at a 45 degree DOWNWARD angle --

From day one the failure to challenge the Magic Bullet crap has permitted the right wing to

deceive the public. And Ford was certainly complicit in this --!!



Nixon was also involved in setting up Bay of Pigs -- thought it was called Operation 40 at the

time -- and that was when Ike was hospitalized with his heart attack!

Here's some other info on where Nixon got support and funding -- !!

Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviania of the Holy See, who arranged Mussolini's 1929 "donation" of $89 million to the Vatican to ensure its neutrality with Mussolini and Hitler. The money went into a special fund in the Vatican Bank, and after the war part of it was entrusted to "God's Banker" Michele Sindona for investment. Sindona channeled a good chunk of it to the Nixon campaign.


http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Na...



:)
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sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #30
114. If they were involved
wouldn't you think that they would want to be the fuck as far from Dallas on that day as possible?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
32. Let's just say, the nice folks who employed these guys:










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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #32
44. Nice fellahs, dose.
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 09:08 AM by Octafish
Not to change the subject in any way, leveymg, but was that you Russ Baker thanked in Family of Secrets?

Heckuva book. Wish I'd written it.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #32
78. Who do you suppose employed Harold Doyle?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #78
102. Maybe mcadams . . . ???
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #102
113. Simple question: McAdams received his Ph.D. from Harvard in 1981...
nearly two decades AFTER the assassination. How old do you suppose he was on 11/22/63? 7? 10? Do you bother to think before you post, D&P?

Jesus, your posts are embarrassing.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
103. Thanks for the pics . . . never saw a clearer one of Sturgis . . .
and I think that lets Harrelson off the hook?

Evidently those investigating went right to Sturgis immediately afterwards to

question him.

Also interesting that Howard Hunt had an ear job as the pics became more widely

circulated. Evidently they also keep issuing new copies of pics -- modified!

Howard Hunt's son said that at one point he was exiting a phone booth in NYC and

as he turned he came face to face with this photo posted on a telphone pole --

he said he immediately knew that the tramp was his father!


One of the things that becomes immensely clear always is there is no such thing as

a perfect crime -- even for the CIA. They are highly dependent upon post-coup murders

and widespread cover-ups.

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bahadir Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
79. no way
come on!!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
100. CIA certainly involved with many others . . . MIC . ..
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deconstruct911 Donating Member (809 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
115. Civil air patrol
Barry Seal etc.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. The people who knew were killed.
I believe he acted alone though.

David
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Huh?
That doesn't make sense.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I think you understand.
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. I remember a joke that was going around in Texas just days after JFK's death:
Shots had rung out in the west end of downtown Dallas. Lyndon Johnson turned to his Secret Service agent and asked what happened.
"There's been shooting, Mr. Vice-President," the officer said.
"Did they shoot the President?" Johnson demanded.
"Yes, sir, they did."
"Did they get Governor Connally?"
"Yes, sir, I'm afraid so."
"Did they get Ralph Yarborough?"
"No sir, they didn't get Senator Yarborough."
"Make the block."

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
40. People I know did not joke about Kennedy's murder, they just said, "Well, it wasn't the Dems"
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #40
56. You probably weren't in Texas in 1963.
It was a very different time and place.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Papa Bush was.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #56
104. Not really ... not when you see those crowds who turned out for JFK . . .
yes, the right wing propaganda is always poisoning the water supply --

but even in Texas many mourned.

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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
8. By the time WWII came to an end, the people in power had divvied up the earth among themselves.
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 01:17 AM by BuyingThyme
When Kennedy came to power, he began to resist their agenda. Then they killed him.

But the people in power do not pull the triggers or intimidate the witnesses. Neither do the generals and admirals who hand down the orders.

The people who actually do the work don't even know why they do it. It's all very well organized and compartmentalized.

But you will know their names someday. Both the power brokers and the trigger men. And you will be surprised.
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. And you know this because you are somehow more enlightened..
..than the average citizen.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. No.
Not enlightened.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. Are you willfully ignorant? Never researched this yourself? Flamebaiting?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
108. The average citizen . . .
believes in the conspiracy to kill JFK --

Instead of trying to game-play, why don't you tell us what you actually

think about all of this --

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
105. Agree -- and Fletcher Prouty is very interesting on those issues . . .
he also reports that immediately after WWII they were revved up and had everything ready

to go into Vietnam -- troops rebelled -- wouldn't go --


Are you finding anything new lately? Anything interesting?

Things have been quiet thru Bush years -- !!

And think the private investigators have done a fantastic job!



:)
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
106. Agree -- and Fletcher Prouty is good on that subject --
Prouty also reported that there had been plans immedately at end of WWII to

go into Vietnam! Everything set to go --

Troops rebelled and wouldn't go!


Another thing people have to understand is organized crime exists only with the

blessing of the elites -- who frequently use their services --



What are you hearing lately? Anything new?

Things have been quite thru Bush years -- though I think the private investigators

have done a fantastic job.

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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
9. Does 'who' matter at this point? Better we stand against extremism, here and now.
Y'know? We can't change the past.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
41. Absolutely, especially if they attained power because of the assassinations.
Would Cheney have entered the White House if the Kennedys hadn't been murdered? Likely not!!

To the victors go the spoils of war.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
109. Right wing can only rise via violence and assassination . . . .
and it was certainly a blasting away of not only JFK but of a "people's" government

to bring us to this point of fascism in America --

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4lbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. LBJ + CIA for starters.
n/t
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
11. In a matter like this I would consult Don DeLillo.
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 01:37 AM by saltpoint
He's a hard-boiled, far-seeing fictionist.

He knows these things.

- - -

As the motorcade advances into the city:

"Horizontal buildings with graveled rooftops. Billboards showing sizzling steaks. Random spectators, brave-looking, waving, in these mournful spaces. And a man standing alone at the side of the road holding up a copy of the MORNING NEWS opened to the page that had everybody talking. 'Welcome Mr. Kennedy to Dallas.' an ad placed by a group called the American Fact-Finding Committee. Grievances, accusations, jingo fantasia -- not so remarkable, really, even in a major newspaper, except that the text was bordered in black. Nicely ominous. Jack Kennedy had seen the ad earlier and now, with towered downtown Dallas in the visible distance, he turned and said softly to Jacqueline, 'We're heading into nut country now.'"

LIBRA.
by Don DeLillo.
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
12. As usual, The Onion had the truth




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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
13. When you're Government is involved in assassinating it's President obviously those involved
need to look the other way - Ruby was the hero of the day...
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
14. Oswald acted alone or was backed by somebody really uninteresting
Kennedy was not a serious threat to any established order despite what the historical revisionists want to say. The only cold war era President that came even close to changing American foreign policy enough that it might piss off the CIA or the military was Jimmy Carter and yet somehow he managed to not get assassinated by the "powers that be".
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Oswald acted alone ,read the Warren Commission...
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. his political career and the future of the nation did.
"was Jimmy Carter and yet somehow he managed to not get assassinated by the "powers that be"."
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
110. Dem Platform which JFK ran on called for NATIONALIZING the oil industry . . .
JFK was ending oil depletion allowances --

Furthering peace efforts --

Withdrawing from Vietnam --

Jimmy Carter was assassinated . . . in quite a different way!!

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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
18. Not this shit again..
Sometimes I wonder if people need conspiracy theories just to deny the fact that the world is a chaotic place.

I don't know.

The 9/11 thing was entertaining when it started. Although I think the people who felt that Bush sat back and allowed it to happen were probably much closer to the truth. That whole path of least resistance and all..

The JFK thing is freaking boring.
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bottomtheweaver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Beware the Ides of March.
JC was assassinated 2,053 years ago and we're still trying to cut through the spin.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. The real truth is that guy never existed
Maybe JFK never really existed.

Man would that throw the conspiracy theorists for a loop.

Hey, maybe FDR never existed either. He's just some kind of massive government mind plant operation to make us all think the government can do stuff for people.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. makes more sense than the OP does
:shrug:
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #26
45. Well did anyone actually ever see FDR
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 09:11 AM by spiritual_gunfighter
Bring me someone that actually saw him in person then maybe I will believe that FDR was nothing more than some extraterrestrial hologram designed to usher in liberal commie policies to ruin our country. :sarcasm: (it's kinda sad that I actually have to use the sarcasm emote but I know that someone on here will get all freaked out at my comment, I know I have seen it before on DU)
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
58. What makes the JFK "thing" freaking boring?
I can't wait to hear your answer! It might be helpful to note the year of your birth, while you're at it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
111. Really . . . then why are you commenting on something that so "bores" you???
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
19. Pardon my french
but oh Fuck Off
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Oswald acted alone, I was being facitious, sarcastic, absurd, Oswald acted alone in the movie house
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
34. check your replies, thank you but this was to the OP?
:hi:
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exboyfil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
23. Edward Blake aka The Comedian
at the request of Richard Nixon.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
25. Regarding those who favor the conspiracy angle on the death of John Kennedy,
well, for those of you who like that sort of thing, this is the sort of thing you'll like:

Don DeLillo gives us the layered origins of the plot that was realized in Dallas. Miami had been a first choice, however:

- - -

They wanted a name, a face, a bodily frame they might use to extend their fiction into the world. Everett had decided he wanted one figure to be slightly more visible than the others, a man the investigation might center on, someone who would be trailed and possibly apprehended. Three or four shooters would vanish completely, leaving scant traces of their affilication. ... The one other figure, one slightly clearer image, perhaps abandoned in his sniper's perch to find his own way out, to be trailed, found, possibly killed by the Secret Service, FBI, or local police. Whatever protocol demands. This kind of man, a marksman, near anonymous, with minimal known history, the kind of man who surfaces in murky places, disappears, is arrested for some violent act, is released to drift again, to surface, to disappear. Mackey would find this man for Everett. They needed fingerprints, a handwriting sample, a photograph. ...

...

Of all the cities where the attempt might be made, Miami was the clear choice. Hundreds of exile factions lived there, conspired and squabbled, waited for another chance. ... Miami had a resonance, an ardor. It was a city of open wounds, of explosive politics and feelings. This very inflammability, this Cuban heat and light, made him determined to keep the plan a secret from anti-Castro leaders.

...

Everett would not consider the plan a success if the uncovering of its successive layers did not reveal the CIA's schemes, his own schemes in some cases, to assassinate Fidel Castro. This was the little surprise he was keeping for the end. It was his personal contribution to an informed public. Let them see what goes on in the committee rooms and corner offices. The pocket litter, the gunman's effects, the sidetrackings and back alleys must allow investigators to learn that Kennedy wanted Castro dead, that plots were devised, approved at high levels, put into motion, and that Fidel or his senior aides decided to retaliate. This was the major subtext and moral lesson of Everett's plan.

- - -

Don DeLillo.
LIBRA.
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MrPerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
27. I think eee's dead.
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
28. Still tilting at them windmills I see
:rofl:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
29. President Kennedy was "Lancer."
The Secret Service folks call presidents by codes.

"Lancer" was Kennedy's.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
31. In terms of pure threshold interest, I always thought Jack Ruby was
the most startlingly vivid character in all the conspiracy constructs.

Until I read DeLillo's LIBRA, a fictional account of the build-up and execution of the murder of the president from the viewpoint (among others) of Lee Harvey Oswald, I did not know for example that Jack Ruby's real name was Jacob Rubenstein.


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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
33. I'd like to read Joan Didion's thoughts on Miami as a
proposed site (from DeLillo's account) for the murder of the president. Didion has done some serious work on Miami.

Also I trust her voice. This is a story -- the facts plus the fictions -- that is as expansive as her talent.


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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #33
52. James Ellroy's "American Tabloid" is great speculative fiction about...
Miami as the original staging area for the Kennedy assassination plot
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #52
112. It wasn't fiction . . . there is a recording of one of the right wing leaders . . .
can't recall his name at the moment -- later killed --

and he was outlining the plans for shooting JFK and what would happen later --

a "patsy" would be found --





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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
35. LBJ, CIA, Hoooover
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Baikonour Donating Member (979 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
37. The Mob was definitely involved.
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 03:50 AM by Baikonour
And were probably hired by the CIA, or rogue elements within the CIA. The Bush family were connected as well.

I suggest you read "Crossfire" by Jim Marrs. It's an 800+ page tome that covers every aspect of the assassination.

It basically comes to this conclusion: during his presidency, Kennedy made a lot of enemies. Everyone from the military-industrial-complex, the mob and the right wing. He was not going along with their agenda:

"The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings." -JFK

A year later, he was dead.

The CIA has to declassify the JFK files in 2029. I guess we'll find out then.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
59. I hope you're right about 2029 being the year...
However, it could be a generation project.

I never understood the interest in keeping Lee Harvey Oswalds' file a secret. This secrecy and national security and locking up - all for someone who was supposed to have done it all by HIMSELF?
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 04:11 AM
Response to Original message
38. Y'all need to read "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters," by James Douglass.
Recently published by the Maryknoll fathers. Best book ever written on the Kennedy assassination. Maybe the best book ever written, period--on American history and politics, and the spiritual condition of our nation.

I cannot respect the opinion of anyone, on this topic, who has not read Douglass' book. He nails it, in every way, with impeccable research and documentation, including many only recently available documents.

I lived through that event and, like many Americans, couldn't face it, and pretty much buried my head in the sand about it. I had my own suspicions, as did many others, but it was such a mortal blow, followed five years later by two equally devastating events--the assassinations of RFK and MLK--that I think I, and a lot of others, have suffered post-traumatic stress syndrome ever since. Douglass' book woke me up from that buried nightmare. Possibly 9/11 and the Bush Junta was the preparation for finally, at long last, facing the truth, that our own CIA really, really, really did do it, on behalf of our war profiteers, because JFK (and his only ally on this within the government, his brother Bobby) were intending to lay a plan before the American people in the next election (1964) to entirely END the Cold War--to disarm, to give up our nukes in a pact with Krushchev, and to end all the proxy wars as well.

JFK came out of the "Bay of Pigs" fiasco intent upon "smashing the CIA into a thousands pieces" (his words), and came out of the Cuban Missile Crisis convinced that his own generals were insane (who had insisted on incinerating Russia with nuclear weapons; they thought they had the advantage and could 'win,' with "only" 300,000 U.S. casualties!). JFK literally saved us from armageddon, and that experience changed him. He opened a backchannel to Krushchev and began planning the end of the Cold War, with the first step toward nuclear disarmament (the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty), and many other actions including arranging neutral status for Laos, opening a backchannel to Castro, and trying to de-fuse the war that the CIA had already started in Vietnam. He demanded a complete withdrawal plan for Vietnam from the Pentagon, and they dallied on it for a year, despite his repeated orders.

This is the context of his assassination, and why he was assassinated--and his brother five years later. Two days after JFK was killed, LBJ said, "Now they can have their war." He was talking about the CIA, the Joint Chiefs and Vietnam. Douglass does not believe that LBJ was part of the assassination plot. I'm not so sure, but I have to yield to Douglass' knowledge of these events. He's been studying it all his life. The CIA had laid a trail to point to Russia, and the goal was to trigger the nuclear war that they couldn't get JFK to agree to. Douglass says that LBJ opposed nuking Russia because they were innocent of the assassination, and agreed to the coverup in order to prevent being pressured into it. But the war profiteers had to be satisfied; thus, within months of JFK's assassination--by about mid-1964--we were in a full scale war in Vietnam.

LBJ sold himself as "the peace candidate" in the 1964 election. I remember, because it was my first vote for president, and I voted for peace--not knowing that LBJ was lying. LBJ won an overwhelming victory, on a peace platform--one of the biggest victories in presidential history. So, JFK had been right that--although the Joint Chiefs, and the war profiteers, and the entire "military-industrial complex" wanted war, the American people did not. And he would have won, and won big, on a plan to end the Cold War--to throw off the terrible albatross of military spending, and begin the disarmament that would lead to world peace. JFK's final speeches--one in particular that is virtually unknown (not covered by the media, which, even then, were shilling for the war profiteers)--lay out his plans for world peace, as he worked the backchannels (circumventing the CIA and all of his military advisors) to bring it about.

Douglass presents an overwhelming case for this, and, looking back, it seems very clear to me now. These assassinations were not random; they were exactly what they felt like at the time, but which was so difficult to make conscious: crushing blows against democracy, aimed at turning this nation into a fascist, warmongering, war profiteering, global corporate prison. That's how I feel now--like I've been in prison for 40 years, but so brainwashed and traumatized that I didn't realize it. Living in a nation/prison with narrowing walls, as the life of our democracy has slowly been snuffed out. Living in a nation/prison with ever more fascist government, ever more global corporate predator control, culminating in the Bush Junta.

I recommend Douglass' book to anyone who really wants to understand where we are now--how we got here, how we could lose so much, how all this could happen--torturing prisoners, slaughtering a million people to steal their oil, the rich looting us of trillions and trillions of dollars, the stolen elections, the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines, the deliberate wreckage of our government ("drowning" our government "in the bathtub"--as Grover Norquist put it). How we got here is that we have never faced what happened back there. We wonder how the Bush Junta criminals can be getting away with the many heinous crimes they have committed, now. (And, beleve me, they are going to walk.) It is because their predecessors got away with those assassinations, back then. Our democracy is in such shambles, I don't know if it will ever recover. But what I do know, now, is that it started back then, and we need to make this conscious--and understand the realities of our government--in order to repair that which has been broken.

Two million people were slaughtered in Vietnam. A million people have been slaughtered in Iraq. More innocent people are being killed in Afghanistan. And, in between, countless others have died, or suffered torture, or suffered impoverishment, at the hands of our government, or at the hands of others paid for by our tax dollars. And that is not to mention the poverty and suffering here in our own land. What happened to disarmament? What happened to world peace? Those ideas died with assassins' bullets--but they must be rekindled, or our country will simply die, like the Roman Empire, and crumble into dust, and possibly the planet itself will die. That is a real prospect--while we spend billions and billions on war, and on 'golden parachutes' for criminal bankers. Where did we go wrong? Douglass names it. The Unspeakable, by which he means the dread that JFK felt about nuclear war, and the horror that he was killed because he wanted to give us peace. If we had not buried this wound; if we had not acquiesced, the Bush Junta could never have happened.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. WISDOM: "How we got here is that we have never faced what happened back there."
Could not be more true. We have to unmask the murderers NOW to save the future!
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Moostache Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #38
50. Criminals who are free to walk in broad daylight are the REAL terrorists...
I do not subscribe to some of the more outlandish theories in the internets, but I do believe you have offered a lucid and plausible explanation of the history of the USA since 11/22/1963 vis a vis Douglass' work and your own interpretation. Kudos on a thoughtful reply and attempt to illuminate the issue without sarcasm dripping from your keyboard. It IS critical to know the entire truth of the events - even if they were more mundane than the fantastical theories and ground noise that have been floating around since the actual event.

Convenient coincidents seem to abound around this singular event in our nation's history. Start with the fact that Nixon, Ford and Bush I and II all have demonstrable ties to either alleged assassins, the CIA, secret societies, well-monied interests opposed to JFK's agendas or all of the above at a minimum. After a while, you start having to believe in the tooth fairy to deny that these men were connected in a way that is suspicious at the least but ominous as well. Continue through the well-documented and reviewed history of the CIA in political assassinations overseas and the oddities of Oswald's checkered past that make him appear to be a lot more than a lone nut - including ties to both the FBI and CIA in the 1960's. The laws of physics are not temporarily suspended in Dallas to fit the profile of a single shooter when video evidence in the Zapruder film clearly implicates a frontal impact to JFK's head and skull fragments travel BACKWARD to the trunk of the car and the opposite side of the street.

The fact of a conspiracy was pretty much laid out by the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978...and one of Bush II's quieter injustices to the nation was the furthering of classification of crucial documents related to the Kennedy assassination. You can draw your own conclusions for his reasons on that issue.

The exact nature of the plot may never be uncovered - just as we may never receive a complete cleansing of the last 8 years via investigations, prosecutions and convictions of the criminals who openly ran our nation from 2001 to 2009.

More than anything else, perhaps the MOST damning thing that points to a conspiracy in my eyes, is the changed arc of this nation that has occurred since the death of JFK. America was transformed from a nation that went to war reluctantly and decisively from 1776 to 1960 into a global imperialist force that has been fighting a steady stream of conflicts ever since - Cold War/Vietnam/Grenada/Panama/Nicaragua/Guatemala/Kuwait/Bosnia/Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan, just to name a few off the top of my head and ignoring the fact that we maintain HUNDREDS of overseas military bases that are essentially garrisoned troops for deployment to any corner of the globe as deemed "essential to national security"...ie. necessary in a global empire.

The single thing we should all be able to agree upon is this - the path of the United States currently is one that ends in only one thing - total ruin. There are no happy imperial endings and we either accept this and willingly change course or we do not and the forces of history will relegate us to a latter-day Roman Empire.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #38
60. Thank you...
In fact, I believe this is reviewed at Black Op Radio Show Number 406, aired on Jan 8th, 2009:

Excerpts-

# Part Two - Jim Douglass
# Jim's book JFK and the Unspeakable is now the #1 Kennedy book on Amazon
# American intelligence was instrumental in the JFK Assassination
# To say any one force (CIA, Mafia, Castro etc) was responsible is irresponsible
# Douglass mentions Vincent Salandria as having the case solved many years ago
# Salandria's overview of the case makes the most sense
# The Joint Chiefs wanted to win the Cold War
# In fear of nuclear holocaust, Kennedy wanted to end the Cold War
# Thomas Arthur Vallee, The Chicago Plot and Oswald
# Jim's message: Why was JFK assassinated?
# Kennedy reached out to his enemy, Khruschev
# Because of this we still exist. He prevented nuclear war
# Kennedy was all but alone in Washington when he turned to peace
# Jim thinks Lyndon Johnson had foreknowledge but didn't participate personally
# After the assassinations of JFK, MLK & RFK, he saw his own end and left office
# The hope of Obama in the context of Kennedy's American University speech
# The task is to learn from the past to save the future
# This will be difficult with all the disinformation getting better publicity

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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #38
64. I hope you'll post this excellent review as its own OP in GD! Thanks for writing it! nt
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
70. JFK and the Unspeakable (Oswald:"the spy left out in the cold")
JFK and the Unspeakable (Oswald)
Douglass mentions the Nags Head, North Carolina military program which launched American soldiers into Russia as infiltrators. Near the end of the book (p. 365), with Oswald in jail about to be killed by Jack Ruby, Douglass returns to that military program with Oswald's famous thwarted phone call to Raleigh, North Carolina: the spy left out in the cold attempting to contact his handlers for information as how to proceed. But not realizing that his attempted call will now guarantee his execution...

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MinM/50
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:30 AM
Response to Original message
39. Take your pick. The only organizations that I know of that
have not be implicated the President Kennedy's assissination are the Women's Christian Temperance Union, The Girl Scouts of America, and the Boy Scouts of America.
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Stevenmarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
43. J. Edger Hoover, behind the grassy knoll, in a ballgown
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camera obscura Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
46. Pretty sure it was William Ayers.
Man, I can't believe they're letting that guy walk free!
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
47. Wait a minute. JFK threads go to the dungeon now?
How long has this been going on?
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
48. When even a liberal disscussion group moves this discussion to their "fringe-only" arena, there is
little hope that the American People are ready to admit their history.
This is to be expected in a country built on false myths in he fist instance.
Covering up true history is part of maintaining the American delusion sphere,
and dealing with the Junta-ization of the American Executive and all that implies
would destroy those precious delusions, the foundational political religious beliefs.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Has this been happening lately, L. Coyote?
This is the first time I've noticed a JFK thread being moved here. It doesn't even make any sense.
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reinvestigate911 Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. if you think about it carefully...
it makes a lot of sense
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #48
61. Point taken, LC
Is this particular mythology seen throughout most Western Civilization? I think it is.
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rollingrock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #48
62. The American Left pretty much died with the Kennedys
JFK and RFK attempted to restore the American progressive movement before they were stopped dead in their tracks, and there has been no progressive party of any significance in the US to speak of since FDR. both major parties have long since been hijacked by the right. Political violence, the murders of its top leadership has successfully shocked the progressive political movement into total submission, of which to this day it has never recovered from. It is effectively dead. It might still exist in some form on places like DU and the internet, but has no real power.
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JSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
51. Read Thom Hartmann's book
< Popular radio host and author Thom Hartmann and historian Lamar Waldron have reviewed newly-discovered evidence, and concluded that the mob killed JFK, with the CIA's help.>

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/12/thom-hart...
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rollingrock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #51
63. Do they say who they think killed or ordered the hit on his brother Robert?
according to the person who did the autopsy, it couldn't have been a lone gunman and a second shooter was likely involved.
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reinvestigate911 Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
54. this thread is a distraction
but from what?
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
65. Since when does the hit man plan the job?
The absence of evidence implies an effective coverup
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. There is no absence of evidence where Lee Harvey Oswald is concerned
The abundance of evidence is overwhelming. See Bugliosi's book.
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. I don't doubt he was the shooter
My question is who hired him. Bugliosi may fit the profile of a presidential assassin, but what does that really mean? That we have in depth behavioral profiles from the Mckinley's and Garfield's and Lincoln's killers?

I haven't read Bugliosi, so perhaps I would be convinced that he conceived of and implemented the plan to kill the president. Maybe he got lucky-- he happened to work in the right place at the right time, happened to know just where and when he would need to be positioned, etc. Very lucky man indeed to get these breaks with no inside information or help.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Well, that's good.
Bugliosi, as I recall, doesn't use psychological profiling to any large extent on Oswald. He uses physical evidence supported by circumstantial evidence like psych writeups and Oswald killing Tippit.
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. But the question remains: Was he the hit man or the mastermind?
I grant physical evidence re: kennedy/tippit/walker, though I have trouble with the single bullet theory, that dropped spontaneously and unscathed out of Connally's leg after its incredible journey.

That he was able to get a job through a friend at the depository, learn of the presidential visit and travel path, and access a private space up high to shoot, is very lucky indeed. It would make an excellent cover story.

He went after Walker for being a fascist. What was he going after Kennedy for? Motive is thinner than many other cast of characters that this thread brings up.

My only question is: Was he a hitman for other interests. Probably never provable, but that is not a proof.

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Sigh. So the lady who Marina rented a room from is lying about how she told him about the job?
The presidential visit and travel path was printed in the newspaper. Oswald was often left unsupervised in his job because it was a shit job. It was also the middle of November at a school book depository. Do you understand what a school book depository does? Do you think the middle of November is a busy time for them?

Your local library should have Bugliosi's book. Check it out. The evidence for Lee Harvey Oswald being the only shooter acting under his own volition is extraordinary. His motive is also laid out clearly - Oswald wanted to be somebody.

His own brother has no questions about Oswald being the only shooter. Shouldn't that tell you something?
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Bruce Ivins' brother threw Bruce under the bus too...
What does that tell us???
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
67. Oswald at Atsugi
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. Oswald applies to Albert Schweitzer College in Churwalden, Switzerland...
Albert Schweitzer College:

Covert History | Oswald and Albert Schweitzer College
On March 4, 1959, 5 days prior to be being promoted to Private 1st Class for the second time, Lee Harvey Oswald completed an application to attend the Albert Schweitzer College in Switzerland. The application was lodged on 19 of March, with a $25.00 registration fee being made on June 19. August 17 found him applying for a dependency discharge from the Marines which was duly granted on the 28th of that month. Exactly one week later, Lee applied for a passport, listing his occupation as "shipping export agent", and the purpose of his travel as attendance at the Albert Schweitzer College, Churwalden, Switzerland...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MinM/37
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MinM/41
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MinM/29
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MinM/31
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. Oswald and the CIA
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-19-09 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #74
82. Tunnheim Panel found that Oswald "worked for the CIA" . . .
"OSWALD WAS EMPLOYED BY THE CIA WORKING ON HIGH LEVEL ASSIGNMENTS

AND PROBABLY ALSO FOR THE CIA."

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-19-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. This is more of D & P's usual bullshit....
Tunnheim was the chalr of Assassination Records Review Board and never said anything remotely like what D & P says or she would be able to post evidence of it.

The link below will take you to the ARRB's final report and, of course, Tunnheim says nothing of the sort.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/advisory/arrb98/index.html

If D & P has evidence to the contrary, I dare her to post it, Of coursem she never does.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-19-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Tunnheim said this ... with the text below as he spoke . . . on A&E/History program . . .
This is about a decade ago -- in fact, Tunnheim was making his report to Congress

about the time they were trying to impeach Clinton! Whatever he may have said to

Congress about this was evidently made in private.

Unfortunately, the program which ran for months on the History Channel was finally

pulled. I had a partial copy of it. I'm sure Tunnheim is still running for his life

and won't repeat any of this.

Usually someone has a tape of these programs -- if it ever surfaces, or if the

original programming ever is presented again -- or if Tunnheim ever thinks it's the

right time to try to tell the public the truth again . .. maybe we'll all see the

evidence -- AGAIN.




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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-19-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Have you ever heard of "begging the question", D & P?
What you state you remember doesn't mean shit. Do you have any documentation of this at all?? I didn't think so, More of your usual bullshit.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-19-09 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Meanwhile, the program existed . . . it's impossible to track even on History .. .
which is now owned by Clearwater ---

Certainly information like this would have been given over to a GOP controlled

Congress in private -- and, no, it isn't in the report.

Meanwhile, I think the most apt comment made to me on why this information hasn't

been made clear to the public is that . . . "no one has the power to do so."

We will need a much more liberal climate before anything like this is again presented

to the public.



As for your personal comments . . .

I'm sure you're the best judge of BS being so close to it yourself . . .
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-19-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. Oh, I see....
you can't provide it because it's "secret". Jesus.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #84
92. "I'm sure Tunnheim is still running for his life"
Edited on Thu Jul-08-10 12:41 AM by SDuderstadt
In actuality, Tunheim is a sitting Federal Judge in Minneapolis. I'm pretty sure that does not qualify as "running for his life".

I find the lengths to which D&P will go to embarrass herself and DU to be nothing short of amazing, don't you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Tunheim
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #83
95. Tunheim did say that "CIA probably misled panel he led on JFK assassination"

http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/news/2009/10/21/minnesota-...

October 22, 2009
U.S. District Judge John R. Tunheim says the Central Intelligence Agency "probably misled" a panel he led in the 1990s seeking documents related to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. That's because the CIA didn't tell Tunheim that its liaison to a panel that preceded his Assassination Records Review Board had been involved with anti-Castro Cubans in Miami who tangled with Lee Harvey Oswald in 1963.

The New York Times reported Tunheim's remarks in a front-page story Saturday on Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests by Minneapolis-born journalist Jefferson Morley, formerly an editor at the Washington Post and past national editorial director for the Center for Independent Media, the Minnesota Independent's nonprofit parent.

After years of pressing the CIA to release its records, Morley got an appeals court earlier this year to force the agency to 'fess up to George Joannides' role as case officer in Miami at the time of Kennedy assassination. But the CIA still has nearly 300 documents about Joannides it won't reveal, citing "grave" national security concerns.

Tunheim told the Times he may ask the CIA for redacted versions of the documents even if Morley is ultimately stymied by the Washington, D.C., federal court.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. Agreed, but he never said...
Oswald worked for the CIA.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. No he didn't
but their need to mislead on the subject of JFK's murder does make a person wonder what they're hiding.

Not that it proves anything but I can remember Oswald's mother claiming he was a "government agent" - she was just written off as a nut at the time, but I'm not so sure she wasn't speaking the truth.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. You need to read more about Marguerite Oswald and...
understand the role she played in the bizarre person Oswald became.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
73. there has been no shortage of names and organizations.
In the vacuum created by an absence of truth, speculation reigns.

CIA
Mafia
Anti-Castro Cubans
The proto-Bush cabal
The military industrial complex
Texans
The military
The national security apparatus

The bigger problem is that there is so little credible evidence for the official conspiracy story and a good bit of evidence that runs counter to the official story.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-19-09 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
81. They say that the night of the assassination, in DC the names were being
circulated --- this was a right-wing power group --

but couldn't have been done without having the president working with them --- LBJ.

Hoover, of course --- CIA heads. Nixon.

Wm. Landsdale --

Not saying that any of these people pulled the trigger --

No -- those they hired did that for them.

I think three excellent books which will be found at your library are --

High Treason I and High Treason II by Livingstone -- and Crossfire by Jim Marrs.

All very easy to read --- written some time ago and still hold up amazingly well.

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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
90. This is the question, as well as, "for what reason?"
At least when you understand the impossible (lone nutter, Arlen Specter) theory, also rejected by the House Select committee, post Warren Commission), you can understand the question most people who have studied the assassination science end of things have been trying to ask.

The real question should be, "who did?", immediately followed by "for what reason?". There were many powerful reasons to extend a military industrial base and commerce, and since the CIA was going to be shattered into a million pieces shortly before his death, I personally theorize it was way up high in military black op's and involved the CIA.

Why should our country be any different?

The fact is, people have been naming names for a long time.
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #90
93. Mort Sahl: certain people had to take President Kennedy's life in order to control ours...
"Heeeere's Justice!" 42 years ago, Johnny Carson spent 50 minutes with New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison
Sahl is one of my favourite undersung heroes of the Sixties, for having spent the capital of a successful career in the Quixotic pursuit of justice for the murderers of America.

From the cover of Time

to "conspiracy monger"

That strikes me as the trajectory of an honourable man.

There's an interview with Sahl a couple of months later in 1968, before the epochal one-two of Dr King and Robert Kennedy, that is as prophetic as anything I've read from that time:

ARGO: Why is the truth behind the assassination of President Kennedy the last chance of America for its survival?

SAHL: Because the evidence developed by District Attorney Garrison indicates that certain people had to take President Kennedy's life in order to control ours...

Read more: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MinM/60

Mart Sahl's explanation is still one of the best.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Thanks, MinM...
Harry Shearer also interviewed Sahl a few years ago during one of the darker Bushionion times. It was a LeShow episode and Harry spent the entire show with him. It was the first time I related anything you've mentioned with (wow, of all people) Mort Sahl.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
91. What I find amazing about JFK CT-types is...
Edited on Wed Jul-07-10 11:47 PM by SDuderstadt
how they try to misrepresent the findings of the House Select Committee on Assassinations by leaving the core of their conclusions out:


Note that the HSCA specifically found that Oswald killed JFK and that neither the CIA, the Secret Service nor the FBI had anything to do with it.

As far as the finding that JFK was "probably" assassinated as a result of a conspiracy, this was based upon flawed acoustic evidence which, when later analyzed by the National Academy of Science, was found to have not even occurred at the same time as the assassination.

Despite this and the passage of nearly 50 years since that awful day, the CT crowd continues to misrepresent the HSCA and peddle their bullshit with no end in sight.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/report/...

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
99. The night of the assassination, names were being mentioned in Washinton, DC . . .
Gen. Edward Landsdale, for one --

LBJ --

Hoover --

If you're an Agatha Christie fan or if you're familiar with the many coups of our CIA

you understand that varied interests come together --

Read about the coup planned by elites to get rid of FDR -- Brig. Gen. Stanley Darlington

Butler blew the whistle on that one. There were USHR hearings -- names mentioned -- but

I don't think all the records were ever released. Usual suspects: Elites/corproations


An excellent movie on these interests is "Executive Action" with Burt Landcaster,

Robert Ryan -- thee's another movie since then by the same title -- but different subject.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070046/
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