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Correct me if I'm off the mark here, but isn't the key witness in the Libby trial...now dead?

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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:18 PM
Original message
Correct me if I'm off the mark here, but isn't the key witness in the Libby trial...now dead?
It was Russert's testimony to investigators that was largely responsible for the establishment of a special prosecutor:

"Scooter Libby, chief of staff for Vice President Dick Cheney, told special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald that Russert was the first to tell him of the identity of Central Intelligence Agency officer Valerie Plame (Mrs. Joseph C. Wilson). Russert testified previously and again in United States v. I. Lewis Libby that he did not tell Libby of Mrs. Wilson's CIA identity."

Bold added for emphasis.

Who else might not have wanted Russert ever testifying against them, I wonder?


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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, puleeze
I think your tinfoil hat is on way too tight.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Well, may he rest in peace. Tinfoil or no, he hung some powerful folks out to dry.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. That may be true
but this was a heart attack and no outside force intentionally caused it.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Haven't you heard about the ultra-secret Heart Attack Ray?
I'm tellin' ya, I heard through the grapevine that the gubmint has one!

:sarcasm:
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. LOL
:rofl:
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Strange, but true, they *do* have a diarrhea inducing ray.


In addition, they have a microwave ray, I think, that essentially makes you feel like you're getting the worst sunburn of your life.

Saw it demoed on the military channel. Wild stuff.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
44. I saw the burning wave thingy yesterday in fact, on the History Channel. n/t
Yes they do have wild stuff. If they had a Heart Attack Raygun I wouldn't be surprised.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Have you ever heard about putting Visene, or a horse medication (ACE) in someone's drink?
They'll be dead in 5 minutes, with symptoms of a heart attack... and no autopsy shows it unless it is specifically being looked for...

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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
47. I had not heard that before.
A little research proves it to be true. Scary stuff for an over the counter medication.

That said, I don't think he was murdered, and that's just an opinion based on nothing other than gut feeling.

I have been known to be wrong before.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. However unlikely, all avenues must be considered...
I've been wrong before, too... but it's not the end of the world. I was just lending credibility to some of the thoughts that he may have been murdered... and also wanted to show you how easily it could happen. There's no need for talk of silly "heart attack rays". There *are* things out there, available to the public, that can make a murder look like a natural cause death.

PEACE!

Ghost

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
41. There is a drug that is difficult to detect. Don't know the name.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. You're very certain for someone who has absolutely no reason to say such a thing.
You don't know what happened. You think you know, and that's enough for you. Fortunately, some of us wait for things like autopsies.

All you are certain of is your opinion, which appears be driven by a need to foreclose any possibility of anything other than the cause you immediately think it is.

The odds are that it was merely a heart attack, but it is not outside the realm of reason there could be some other cause. The intelligent approach is to wait and hear what the evidence says.


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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Yep. It's pretty easy, actually, to induce a heart attack.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Okay -- it could have been some other NATURAL cause
I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't murder.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. I'm pretty sure it wasn't murder, either. I simply don't rule out anything early.
For all we know, he could have had a reaction to a prescription drug. My point is there is no reason to decide we know before he's autopsied.

I have very little confidence in the honesty and integrity of the Bush administration and the Cheney wing of it. I don't accuse them of anything in this matter, but I don't automatically conclude they are incapable of it.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. No, but it's pretty damn low on the differential.
He could have been killed by aliens who are starting an anti-journalist campaign so they can invade a blinded planet. You have no evidence that didn't happen. I'm not ruling anything out until there's a full investigation.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Fortunately, I've learned to ignore the silly and the vacuous.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Clearly, given your approval of conspiracy-theory speculation for the death of a
Edited on Fri Jun-13-08 04:15 PM by Occam Bandage
58-year-old overweight, diabetic, workaholic man with a fast-paced, stressful job. Gee, that's only like six major risk factors for heart disease. And he died of an apparent heart attack.

Yeah, I bet Bush did it.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. No, that's not my position, and you know it. Stop lying.
My position is that you don't know why he died and neither do I. Unlike you, I don't think with my emotions, so I do the intelligent thing and say I will wait to see what the autopsy says.

We both know you're a guy who shoots his lip off and doesn't think much about what he says, so I predict you'll keep doing that, in spite of the fact it makes you appear to be an ignorant rube who lacks logic or reason.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
56. Well, you have to remain skeptical as to any explanation.
58 is very young for a man who probably had excellent healthcare.

And the possibility of a reopening of the case against Rove is at least a remote possiblility since the publication of McClellan's book.

A lot of strange things have happened to people who know the president's secrets.

I would not jump to conclusions either way at this point.

Rove's testimony to Fitzgerald had to be "revised." Also, Russert's testimony would be key in an impeachment trial. The stakes here are very high.

Remember, you are dealing with people who resent being deprived of the opportunity to sentence prisoners to death without affording them due process or even letting them see the evidence against them.

And then there are the unanswered questions about the anthrax attacks on Leahy, et al.

So, tin foil hat? Yes, I certainly would not put the tin foil hat on at this point, but I would not throw it away either.

Certainty is not a virtue if it is uninformed. And we are uninformed.

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #56
64. "58 is very young for a man who probably had excellent healthcare. "
Edited on Fri Jun-13-08 05:44 PM by Occam Bandage
And is not at all young for an overweight diabetic workaholic with a stressful job. It's a mild surprise, but it isn't shocking or unbelievable either. I wouldn't "jump to conclusions," but I wouldn't speculate mindlessly either. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to suspect any conspiracy to murder Mr. Russert.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
45. Well, we're going to find out - Sibley Hospital just announced that they're doing an autopsy.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
66. How can you say anything which such certainty?
I don't think that there was anything conspiratorial about his death but I think your line of thinking is foolish.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. He's right Sharon
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. I know he testified against the administration
I just don't think they had him killed.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
57. So, they kill 4000 troops and countless Iraqis, but you
don't think they would kill Tim Russert? How can you be so sure.

Tim Russert/Keith Olbermann -- Who headed the news department at MSNBC? Who hired and kept Olbermann going all these years?

How much of an impediment is Olbermann to McCain's ascendancy to the imperial presidency?

I'd like to know everything that Russert did for the past week, everything he ate for the past week, everything about who he met with, who he saw, who was in his office.

Wouldn't hurt to look into those things in this case, but I realize that a thorough investigation will not happen.
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galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
46. these people have waged secret *wars*
you really think slipping something into a key witness' drink when they may be called to testify again is beyond them?
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. My thoughts, too. nt
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newmajority Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Time to bring out the Reynolds wrap....
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

Not that I would put anything past the Bush Crime Family, but who would be the mole inside MSNBC that slipped something into Timmy's coffee?
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. I don't trust the GOP to tell me the time. I wouldn't put a single thing past them, ever.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. That's my bottom line
Only the truly ignorant would take anything they say as fact. Ignorance must truly be bliss with all the :rofl: I'm seeing in defense of them.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
68. So, let me make sure I get this straight....
if the Bush administration (which I, by the way, despise) said E=MC squared, you wouldn't take it as fact?
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #68
79. You're assuming those twerps wouldn't call that equation 'junk science'.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. You're avoiding my question...
if the Bush administration said something that was verifiably true, would you reflexively deny it?
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #80
81. I view anything they say, ANYTHING, with skepticism.

And you know, that's a good thing to do, even with sources you trust.

They lie so often, and with such ease, that I'd question them saying the sky was blue.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Which is a waste of time...
because it means you'd have to question/investigate everything they say. So, for example, would you doubt/question/investigate Bush's subsequent (much) admission that we DIDN'T find WMD in Iraq? Does that make you suspect we actually did? This is getting silly.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #83
88. Skepticism is a waste of time. Really.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
60. You can draw conclusions after we see how this affects
Olbermann's show. I don't know how much Russert's decisions kept Olbermann on the air. If Olbermann's show goes, I just might put on my tin foil hat on this one. I'm on the fence for the moment.

It seems pretty crazy to think someone would assassinate Russert, but then a lot of things that Bush and Rove do seem utterly crazy and downright mean to me. So, I can't dismiss the thought that Russert, at 58, died of unnatural causes.

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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. And during an impeachment hearing too!
n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
69. WHAT impeachment hearing? n/t
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. Too late, they can use his prior testimony if he is "unavailable,"
Edited on Fri Jun-13-08 03:23 PM by Dangerously Amused
ie, dead or otherwise incapacitated to the point of being unable to testify. They can also, under certain circumstances, use relevant statements even when they are not sworn testimony.

Edit: Concision.

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RichGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. It is sick to think this way....but...
...I admit, when I saw "dead at 58" my first thought was "who wanted him dead". Nothing shocks me anymore and nothing is unbelievable anymore. But for now REST IN PEACE TIM.
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Admittedly I thought the exact same thing
who oh who? Fifty-eight years old is awfully young. :tinfoilhat:

:dem:
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Gothmog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. LIbby dropped his appeal-the trial is over
The trial is over and Libby dropped his appeal. The verdict against Libby is final. Even if there was an appeal the prior testimony would be admissible
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Right, but then Scott McLellan....wrote a book.

New trials. New testimony.

Or, not so much any more.
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Sheets of Easter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
17. I bet the chin strap on that helmet really chafes, doesn't it?
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. I bet inquisitive thoughts in your head sound like a BB rattling in a beer can, don't they?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. I know when I hear that a 58-year-old overweight diabetic workaholic died of a heart attack,
Edited on Fri Jun-13-08 04:09 PM by Occam Bandage
my first thought is "I bet it was murder."
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. How many of those played a key role in getting a member of a criminal cabal indicted/convicted of a
crime? Inquisitive minds always look deeper. Simple minds stop at simple answers/solutions...

just sayin'....

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
62. entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
48. that's why I pad mine with decade old newspaper
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. Your concern is warranted.
Yes, he was a key witness, if not the key witness.

Ignore the naysayers. They always pop up, immediately indignant that anyone would consider anything but the impression they drew in seconds, with no facts or evidence whatsoever. That's the way half the public is, knee jerk and willfully ignorant.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Thanks. I *was* feeling odd about voicing that thought, but it was my first after the news aired.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Given what we KNOW about Cheney, Libby, Rove, Bush, why assume anything?
I will say quickly that I think Russert is probably a middle aged guy who died a normal death from a normal risk. But why would I accept that as fact, given the mix of characters and his important role in the Libby trial?

Some Americans cannot fathom that we have many Americans on the other side who use murder as a political tool, and make little distinction between doing it overseas and doing it here. If Putin could do it, Bush could do it.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. Funny how the willfully ignorant will laugh in the face of reason...
And belittle fellow DUers who are only speaking the truth.

Jeez.

IMHO, your assessment is spot on.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
38. Didn't Ken Lay...
Edited on Fri Jun-13-08 04:20 PM by PaDUer
have a heart attack also? However, Lay had a quick burial & no autopsy.
-edit-
My condolences go out to the Russert family.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Ken Lay was certainly a case where a good autopsy would have helped.
His death protected his family's millions from almost certain civil attachment, as well as foreclosing any possibility that he could make a deal and give up Bush or Cheney on the 2001 Energy Plan.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. Death of convenience..
shall wee say? You bet he would've started singing, wouldn't he?..
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. As I recall, the family quickly had him cremated, too.
His conviction was not final, so it cannot be used to attack his fortune, which passed to his family.

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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. That's right..
there wasn't anything to hide, was there?..family took his death hard, so best to have it over quickly and no questions asked.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
61. Russert was a true believer
He doesn't seem the type to tell secrets. My impression was that he truly believed in the rightness of the beliefs and actions of the Bush administration and the GOP. He was incredibly loyal to them.
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. As Scottie heads in to stir up the the hornets nest
I too wonder if this death was of natural causes. It amazes me that folks here are so quick to shoot someone down when they really don't have all of the facts themselves. It really does turn my stomach. On the other hand I have watched many a MTP and screamed at the TV as Russet spoon fed Americans his version of reality.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
28. Shocking news and unhinged tinfoilers. That's one...
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
33. Interesting seeing so many shout it down when there hasn't even been an autopsy yet.
He died of an "apparent heart attack," yet all these rubes talking about "tinfoil hats" when there hasn't even been an autopsy yet.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. If I had suggested that he was killed by space aliens trying to silence
any sort of anti-alien stories that he might tell, I don't think there would be so many giddily cheering me on.

This is dumb speculation of an unlikely cause for a mundane event.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #35
76. That is truly a bullshit straw man and you know it.
We have no credible evidence of "space aliens." But we do have evidence of a criminal junta running the nation with extraordinary reach and power. And the fact is that there was an investigation to bring it down. One of the critical witnesses willing to speak collapses at work at the ripe old age of 58.

Still want to talk about "space aliens"? Didn't think so.

You're jumping to conclusions before any evidence whatsoever is collected is either naivete or just plain foolish. Come to think of it, it is about on the same level as the space alien bullshit you put forth.
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dems_rightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
59. Autopsy won't matter.
Those coroners, they're in on it too. Write it down, that will be the spiel.

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. No, they've already given the spiel. They've invoked various drugs which
give people "apparent heart attacks," but which are "undetectable" unless you specifically look for them--and I'm betting the coroner won't test for it BECAUSE THEY'RE BUSHCO OPERATIVES I WOULDN'T PUT IT PAST THEM.
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dems_rightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. I heard Cheney did the autoposy.
He pronounced it a heart attack. Odd that it was dated yesterday.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. I wish the tinfoil brigade would figure out whether
Tim Russert was a neocon pro-Bush jackass who deserved it, or whether he was an anti-Bush crusader who was murdered for standing up to the machine.

It would make things a lot easier for everyone else.
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Bassman66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #67
73. I've just read through this thread
and I find your repeated slapping down of anyone who questions this death interesting.
It might be a natural death, it probably is, but you don't know until you know. I think people's questions are legitimate, such things happen, Alexander Litvinenko for instance.

Why the need for the constant slapping down?
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #59
77. That's real cute, but if you don't mind, before you tell us all about what is going to happen,
some of us would at least like to have an autopsy done.

I suppose it's cute to come on here and try to ridicule posters with the "tin foil" bullshit. But the fact is that there was an investigation seeking to bring down a criminal junta that has shown us that there is nothing illegal (torture, murder, war) that it isn't willing to do. A critical witness who was willing to speak in that investigation suddenly collapses at the ripe old age of 58.

If it is okay with you and all of the really cool "tin foil" Middle School brigade posters, some of us would like to at least see an autopsy done.

Thank you. That is all.
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galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
43. if no one else had posted this by this evening
then I was planning to.

with McClellan spilling the beans, I can see the Bush Admin removing key witnesses to their major crimes. no one obvious, like McClellan, but an independent outsider witness who would be needed to corroborate certain events who has a family history of early heart attacks, a medical emergency that's easy to duplicate? too easy a target for them to pass up.

:tinfoilhat:
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
50. I journeyed over to Lucianne-land to see what they had to say, and
from what I read, there was a cancelled thread during which it was posited that GUESS WHO was responsible for his heart attack.

any guesses as to whom the culprits were?
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. I guess they haven't.....
a clue either..
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. what I found interesting there, and freeperville, was that even
though the few that said they didn't share his political views thought he was an OK guy.

and I KNOW from experience that means he DID largely share their political views, because anybody that didn't match their insane worldview almost down the line was ALWAYS excoritated, with the worst being wished on them, and intense gloating occurring whenever anything untoward happened to anyone they loathed, like, say Vince Foster
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
58. The day he showed up to testify he was on crutches.
Edited on Fri Jun-13-08 05:21 PM by bluesmail
Said he was in a skiing accident? Now that the walls are closing in on the Cheney Gang, Tim Russert is dead.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
70. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
71. Oh, good grief
The man died from a heart attack. End of story.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. There's hope for you yet....
er, Hope.
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #72
75. Please...
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Bassman66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. You can't know that for sure. nt.
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John Kerry VonErich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
78. So you think he got "Wellstoned"
Sorry for the repeated use of the word. But I expected this much since the story began. The same thing happened when Ken Lay died.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #78
82. You really think Ken Lay is dead?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Ummmm....
yeah.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Really. How about this guy?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. No idea....
but I don't understand what you think this has to do with Lay.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. Well, they're both frauds that probably faked their deaths.

How are you not getting that?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. "Probably faked their deaths"
Edited on Tue Jun-17-08 07:06 PM by SDuderstadt
Well, I don't know about you, but I think the word "probably" kinda undercuts the claim. Now, of you have some actual EVIDENCE, it might be worth considering. And, Israel didn't fake his death. He disappeared, leaving a mysterious "suicide note" written in the accumulated dust on his car.


Hey, I just realized something! Due to travel problems, I was not at my grandmother's funeral (I arrived ten minutes after it concluded, due to being snowed in at the Denver airport for several hours). How do I know that was actually my grandmother in the casket?
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
90. I can understand why you would question this
Edited on Tue Jun-17-08 07:41 PM by Hope2006
Given the fact that we have been under an obvious dishonest shroud since 2000, I can really see why you would be questioning this. But, in this case, I do think that we can be very sure that Mr. Russert died from coronary disease.

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