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Has anyone tried to reproduce the chicken-wire/bunny-cage experiment??

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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 02:42 AM
Original message
Has anyone tried to reproduce the chicken-wire/bunny-cage experiment??
I was reading through the archives and saw a thread containing an experiment. There was much talk about fine-tuning the model. I was wondering if this was ever re-created using a thermite-like model.




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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe NIST ought to since they couldn't get their own
model to fail...
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. The sad part is...
... if Spooked911 had actually measured the strength of the steel wire before and after heating, he might have actually learned a little something from the experiment. If he had done that accurately at different temperatures, we might have proved for himself what structural engineers and fire professionals already know.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. That was me
I did a follow up expt where I wanted to see if I get get a damaged tower to collapse:
http://wtcmodel.blogspot.com /

It didn't.

I didn't use thermite though.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. by the way, I did this because no one, including NIST, had modeled the collapse
with a physical model.

I didn't know what to expect, but I couldn't get my structure to get CLOSE to collapsing.

I challenge anyone to build a model of the WTC that can undergo progressive collapse from limited damage.
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Here ya go
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. I mean a model with the pieces connected.
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 07:16 PM by spooked911
That video proves my point-- that you can only get total collapse when the pieces aren't connected.
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. RIght, they should have built the towers out of chickenwire


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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. News flash for you
I did this because no one, including NIST, had modeled the collapse with a physical model.

What you created does not qualify as a model. It may look somewhat like the WTC, but as a model that attempts to learn something about the behavior of the WTC, it is meaningless.

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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. It's a hell of a lot closer than any rigged computer "model." (n/t)
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Snicker (n/t)
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. LARED -- I would have thought you would have tried it by now --to put all those
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 07:17 PM by spooked911
crazy theories to rest.

Wouldn't it save you hours and hours time here on DU???
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Why do you say that?
I think it is meaningful.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. A model that can tell you something
must be scalable. For instance the height and width should be scaled (something you did). But also the components need to be scaled.

Let me give you a for instance, Each perimeter column in the WTC had specific physical properties based on the material, geometric dimension, shape, and fabrication method to name a few. Off the top of my head your components would need to have similar moments, section modules, Young's modulus, etc. A real model takes those properties and scales them down so the model so the real thing will react to forces in the same way. This can be quite complicated if not impossible for a structure as complicated as the WTC. Unless you do that your model just looks like the WTC, but is not something you can gain any useful information about.

Another example using the perimeter columns is that every three floors the columns were bolted together with I believe four bolts. A far weaker connection than a solid cross section of steel in between sections. This is fine as long as the column are subject to mainly vertical loading, but once the columns were subjected to lateral loads the bolted joints failed easily.

Your model does not take these factors into account or many other scaling issues.
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. And the thing that kills the whole idea...
Edited on Sun Dec-31-06 01:05 AM by William Seger
... of trying to model the tower collapse is that you can't scale the acceleration of gravity.

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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. No but you can scale the structual durability of the materials
to resist gravity. Which is why the materials in this model were MUCH too robust.
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Try firecrackers
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. I doubt firecrackers would have had any effect on the wire
so would that mean explosives could not have brought down the towers? ;)
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
16. I just hope the bunny got out alive...nt
Sid
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
19. That's some funny stuff.
You can't even get a burning bunny cage to collapse with a giant slab of concrete on it.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Funny haha? or Funny strange?...nt
Sid
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Brainster Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
20. This Guy Did the Paper Towers Method
It's right up there with Spooky's attempts. Note: This guy is not kidding; he spent hours on this ridiculous project.
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. WOW. He IS serious.
This deserves its own thread.

I wonder how someone like this functions on a daily basis? Strange .... he doesn't appear to be in an institutional setting. I DID see the alcohol and glue(for huffing?)...maybe that explains it.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Stunning
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