David Ray Griffin says 9-11 was inside job

[MissWaverly]

I am reading his new book "Christian Faith and the Truth behind 9-11" Moderators, I hope you
will leave this up; I am just posting a snip which I of facts that I did not know and it is not a wacko theory.

Page 16: "Not Devout Muslims. The alleged hijackers are portrayed in the offcial story as devout Muslims, ready to meet their maker. Mohamed Atta, called the ring-leader is said by
the 9/11 Commission Report to have become very religious even "fanatically so. Some journalists, however found that he loved cocaine, alcohol, gambling, pork, and lap dances.
According to an editorial in the Wall Street Journal, moreover, not only Atta but several of the
other men indulged such tastes in Las Vegas. But the 9/11 Commission, ignoring these reports professed to have no idea why these men met in Las Vegas several times. This is only one of over a hundred issues on which the Commission distorted, or simply omitted evidence contradicting the official story."

[sgxnk]

1. i've read

this information in both the left and rightwing media
it's been widely reported and various explanations are given besides the "inside job" rubbish

[MissWaverly]

2. well, please educate us but I want to know why

the information was given on Atta was not accurate, he certainly was not a devout follower
of islam.

[sgxnk]

6. it's not certain at all

it has not been uncommon in the past for those who are in cells, and who are about to commit suicide/homicide to engage in decadent western practices, so to speak

i didn't say it wasn't accurate (the reports of going to strip clubs, etc.)

i am saying it has not been kept secret, it has been widely reported, and says little about 911 being an inside job, unless one was predisposed to believe every inside job wacko conspiracy

here's a transcript from friggin scarborough country of all places

this is hardly some deep darkly concealed information that people are ignoring


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13816586/

[MissWaverly]

15. I am not talking about what people are ignoring

I am talking about what information the goverment has provided. Last night I saw a special
on Mr. Darby, the serviceman who was the whistleblower on Abu Ghraib. The soldiers at Abu
Ghraib knew somebody leaked information on the torture but they didn't know who until
Secretary Rumsfailed announced it. Mr. Darby was sitting 5 feet away from one of those he had
reported, in Iraq, in Abu Ghraib when Rumsfailed released this information. Several days
later, an army concerned for his safety flew him out of there. It is so bad that his family
had received so many death threats that they had to leave Maryland. That is what I heard
on the news last night.

[sgxnk]

17. ok

but im not sure what that has to do with 911 being an inside job or the 911 commission information being suppressed

for pete's sake, anybody with access to a bookstore or a library can read the darn thing

[MissWaverly]

25. What I am saying is our government is not credible

Here's Rumsfailed saying that Darby is to be commended for speaking out, revealing his name
to the very people who would want to kill him for doing it. Okay, I must admit I find the 9-11
material overwhelming, I have read Against all enemies, The One Percent Doctrine, The New Pearl
Harbor, videos-Painful Deceptions, Loose Change, factual interviews Wing Tv, Fahrenheit 9-11,
and I must admit I am a total amateur and there is a great deal I don't know.

[lvx35]

67. See, now there is a point that stands on its own...

...the fact that this administration is not credible - they are proven liars, and they do it again and again, and they hide things, including 9/11 in shrouds of secrecy. So why should anybody trust proven liars who hide things in veils of secrecy? 9/11 may not have been an inside job, but you sure as hell can't blame people for thinking it given Bush's track record. Its Bush's own damn fault that they are, not anybody elses.

[MissWaverly]

88. Yes and after all the hype about security, they leak like a sieve

they announced Darby's name in Congress knowing it was televised, when he leaked the
info on Abu Ghraib, the lid was kept on until Rumsfeld shouted it to the world w/o first
making sure he was out of there and safe. The same with Plame, they exposed how many
dedicated CIA people to danger, all for some political payback to a Ambassador Wilson who
was not even an employee of the CIA.

[democraticinsurgent]

51. if you like reading fiction

it's not a bad read.

[Howardx]

5. do you think oswald was the lone gunman?

n/t

[sgxnk]

7. i have no idea

i have not researched that topic to the extent that i would draw a conclusion

[sam sarrha]

18. no brainer.. he was shot thru the neck back-to-front, and his brains and

a big chunk of his skull were blown all over the trunk of the car, that is why Jackie crawled over the seat onto the trunk in the line of fire to retrieve the back of his head. he was shot from the front and the bullet took the back of his head out. indicating there were 2 shots from about 180 degrees apart,

i heard an interview with the guy that wrote the sniper manual for the army, it wasn't about JFK, but the interviewer said right at the end.. 'before you go one more question, 'was Oswald a lone gunman.?'... the reply was 'one bullet hit him from behind also hitting the person in front of him, then he was shot in the head... from my personal experience the brains go that-a-way.. there had to be at least 2 gunmen he was also shot from the front.'

[Howardx]

32. so youve heard nothing

about jfk's assasination? nothing? i ask that question everytime someone like you calls the theories on 911 "rubbish" initially everyone thought oswald did it alone because thats what the government told them, years later it turns out that wasnt actually the case, which i feel will happen with the 911 story.

[sgxnk]

39. i have not heard enough to form any kind of strong opinion

is my point. it was before my time, and i do not pretend to know about things ... i don't know about

[ima_sinnic]

30. inside job "rubbish"?? what is so "rubbish" about it?

gee, I forgot: GWB and pals just LOVE America!!
Look how the little cretinous liar couldn't WAIT to go testify before the 9/11 commission--and let We The People hear every word!
Look how the miserable prick DIDN'T delete 28 pages of evidence regarding 9/11!
Look how Sibel Edmonds has been ENCOURAGED to tell everything she knows so that We The People might be informed and the perpetrators brought to justice!
Look how they have been so fast to release all videotapes with evidence of whatever hit the Pentagon--videotapes that they collected, from everywhere, within minutes of the hit. And how they have allowed us to see the mysterious "airplane" wreckage that is supposedly laid out in some hangar somewhere.
Look how the shit-head "in charge" DIDN'T try to benefit from 9/11! He never once seemed concerned about his "poll numbers" or never, for 5 whole years afterward, once uttered anything about 9/11 or how it related to any of his other nefarious "goals," like overrunning and occupying an innocent country, profiteering from murder and mayhem, terrorizing the American people with bogus terror bullshit, etc. etc. What a wonderful man! A true humanitarian--he showed us so much of that remarkable quality before, during, and after Katrina, when he did everything possible to save as many lives as possible and restore life and energy to a devastated region!

need I go on? those who pooh-pooh the idea of an "inside job" are clearly delusional--or have some other axe to grind. We're not all quite so foolish.

[sgxnk]

44. there are a million reasons

not to believe it was an inside job

let me give you the most basic smell test one...

an administration that presented the bulk of the justification of invading iraq was WMD's

subsequently invaded and then discovered (apart from some old rickety stuff that was pretty inconsquential ) that there WERE NO WMD's

***also***

orchestrated the 911 attacks. RIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

from a simple smell test angle - if they were evil and organized enough to conduct this whole 911 conspiracy, they CERTAINLY easily could have and would have planted some WMD's in Iraq for us to "find" after invasion. on the one hand they are evil and organized enough to organize 911, but they wouldn't/couldn't plant WMD's in IRAQ and thus exposed themselves to immense ridicule and risk of lost election (that almost anybody except for an amazingly ineffective Kerry would have won handily after the WMD debacle)

the fact that they didn't speaks VOLUMES.

that's just one very basic reason to suspect it's all crap

not to mention that most of the "it's a conspiracy" arguments fall into the realm of absurdity

[MissWaverly]

56. WMD's was propaganda to get us to go

remember Operation
Iraqi
Freedom

was called Operation
Iraqi
Liberation
when we first went in there, or OIL for short.

[wildbilln864]

82. People should really read more...

from a variety of sources for news.

They actually did try to plant WMDs in Iraq!
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266752.shtml
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9
http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/iraq_lies.html

[ima_sinnic]

59. oh, BS--for one thing, Valerie Plame's outing had something to do

with their failure to plant WMDs. My understanding is that she caught a whiff of that plot and had to be gotten rid of in some way, or discredited. Or perhaps in outing her they inadvertently messed up their own plot. There is some connection there but I'm not exactly sure what.

The other way it's BS: you're saying because they failed to do something, it proves they couldn't have done something else. It doesn't have to be that they "masterminded" the entire 9/11 scenario. They merely knew enough about it to encourage it, either by ignoring it or by stealthily encouraging it with a little payola, or by "helping it along" (i.e., the "right people" planted at WTC to allow planting of explosives, scheduling "training exercises" at that exact time, etc.)

And they knew damn well there were no WMDs in Iraq but figured they would "make something up" as they went along, as they did--1st it was WMDs, then it was capturing Hussein, then it was "bringing democracy," then I don't remember the rest of the bullshit stories they started spinning. It is just SO CONVENIENT that 9/11 happened--& you can tell by the look on that shit-head's face after he is told the country is under attack that he knows EXACTLY what has gone down--when and how it did. They at the very least LET it happen, and I'd bet any amount of money they were more than passive in their complicity.

During Katrina, FEMA operatives were witnessed cutting telephone lines from shelters! These are the kind of people we are dealing with--EVIL TRAITORS who wouldn't care if an entire region of the United States were wiped off the map if it lined their own pockets.

You really need to educate yourself some more. You're just gullible I guess.

[MissWaverly]

89. Yes, I agree

also I think the big rush to Iraq was the cash that had accumulated during the sanctions against
Iraq period. (In the book Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast, pgs 75-76) "In all, 363 tons of US currency were shipped to Iraq." Pg 46 "Where did the money go? The "Bremer-Bush" regime policy
is don't ask, don't tell."..."This isn't US taxpayer's money. The missing cash and the billions
handed out without receipts by Bremer's crew were taken from Iraq's own accounts at the
Federal Reserve. This was cash left over from the "Oil for Food Program and its successor, the
"Development Fund for Iraq," made up of donations and profits from Iraq's own oil sales."

[CJCRANE]

84. Um..not necessarily...

there is some evidence that they tried and were intercepted. Don't forget that people like Valerie Plame track movements of WMD around the world, it's not that easy to transport WMD undetected by US and other intelligence agencies.

[petgoat]

87. Here's why your "smell test" stinks

The 9/11 plot only had to fool the American People, and the corporate media
could be counted upon for that.

Faking the Iraq WMD would have required fooling international experts and the
UN, which would have been a great deal more difficult.

As to your risk of lost elections, IMHO there was never truly any risk of that--
and one of the reasons stealing the 2004 was essential was that new
investigations of 9/11 were so threatening that losing was not an option.

[elehhhhna]

57. You solved the 911 mysteries? Do tell.

[MissWaverly]

65. well, no, all David Ray Griffin does is presents a mosaic

a conversation here, a government report there, facts that I never knew existed like the Taliban
would have released Osama to us if Bush had provided evidence linking him to 9-11; that would
have been a heck of a lot easier than going to war.

[mirandapriestly]

85. wow

a thousands posts in a MONTH??? Congratulations, you just be a very dedicated poster.

[wildbilln864]

91. yes...

near 40 per day! That's interesting.

[Bushwick Bill]

3. Keep us informed about the book.

Here is a clip of Atta's ex-stripper girlfriend talking about what a partier he was.
http://tinyurl.com/bblcu

Here is some more.
"Top Ten Things You Never Knew About Mohammed Atta."
http://tinyurl.com/d7lgs
What was Mohamed Atta really doing in Florida?
HOPSICKER: What I found in Florida was that the government story about the terrorist conspiracy’s activities before September 11th is not just an error, it is a lie. The time line is wrong. The FBI’s timeline is wrong. Everything they are doing is designed to protect an operation that was under way in southwest Florida that trained, between 1999 and September 2001, literally hundreds of Arabs to fly. In other words, in 1998, there were two or three Arabs learning how to fly, by the end of ‘99 it was flying hundreds of them. So obviously there was a covert operation going on; the flight school where Mohamed Atta went to, Huffman Aviation in Florida is not a business and was not operating like a business. So it was, and is, something else.
http://tinyurl.com/7rxd6
"Nafeez Ahmed gave an excellent presentation on the fact that Mohammad Atta and the Hamburg cell of terrorists did not exhibit the behavior of radical Islamic fundamentalists. Rather there were multiple reports of them drinking heavily, using cocaine, gambling in Las Vegas, and frequenting strip clubs. None of this accords with the behavior of genuine Islamists, allied with Al Qaeda, who believe in the strictest interpretation of the Koran as to how a Muslim should live his life."
http://tinyurl.com/8b6nr
Webster Tarpley on Synthetic Terror - Moles, Patsies, and Professional Killers.
http://tinyurl.com/apel5

[MissWaverly]

4. Thank you, this is something I want to explore

I have heard a lot of Webster Tarpley's audios, before he was primetime.

Thanks

Miss Waverly

[MissWaverly]

8. really scary info on page 11 - same book by Griffin cited above

"The Westmoreland manual instructed these armies to carry out acts of violence, then blame them
on Communists, then to infiltrate left-wing organizations, then encourage them to use violence.
Through these means, Supplement B says, "US Army Intelligence (will) have the means of launching
special operations which will convince Host Country government and public opinion of the reality
of the insurgent danger." However, the manual continues: "These special operations must reamin
strictly secret...(T)he involvement of the US Army in the internal affairs of an allied country...shall not become known under any circumstances."

This is probably old hat to many of you but it is news to me, I really don't see how such
covert ops which are not subject to any real oversight could benefit our country in the long
term. Notice the term "allied country" - a country in which we are supposedly friendly.

[riderinthestorm]

47. This kind of black op is/was SOP in places like Central America

for example. The bottom line is this kind of operation doesn't benefit our country but it does benefit major corporations and major players like BFEE, the Carlyle Group, Halliburton, United Fruit and many, many other corrupt and evil entities.

This particular kind of destabilization has been used for decades - nay, centuries by powers-that-be. Alas.

[MissWaverly]

64. well, I think now it has come home to us

We are paying for this now, I sincerely believe that our foreign relations must be done
with trust and good faith, a good neighbor policy. I am 53 years old, I grew up in the shadow
of World War II and the Cold War. I truly believe that we must remember that we are only
1 nation among many and our best interest is contributing to a stable world community.

[AntiFascist]

10. "Muslims in Las Vegas" sounds awfully familiar....

According to Bill White, in an interview with CBC:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/6/61854/9150

TO WHAT EXTENT WERE YOU PART OF THIS SOCIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SAUDIS? HOW OFTEN WOULD YOU SEE THEM? UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES? CAN YOU DESCRIBE HOW THEY, HOW THEY ACTED PERSONALLY, PRIVATELY?
Oh, yes I can. Salem Bin Laden was very gregarious. He was very Westernized. He wore Western clothing, very articulate, spoke English well. And he was a gad-fly, an international playboy. He would buzz into town with an entourage and he would have a party over at the Big House and a lot of the big business men, attorneys in Houston would come to these parties. And he would entertain. He'd play the piano. He'd sing. Have cocktails and it was quite interesting. There was some unseemly contact as well. I think one occasion one of my secretaries came into work about an hour and a half late and she told me that Jim Bath had called her at eleven o'clock at night and said that Salem Bin Laden was at the hotel and he was lonesome and would she go over and entertain him for a while. And, then he would take the Arabs to Las Vegas and arrange for prostitutes and things like that. I was fortunately never part of the unseemly side of it but I did interface with him directly

[MissWaverly]

42. that fits in with the impression that I had

wealthy, trendy, world traveler, succesful businessman, it's what I pictured from the Michael
Moore movie.

[HamdenRice]

9. 5-4-3-2-1 Welcome to the Dungeon! Before you even get there!

That's the least of it. If you listen to the mainstream, you would think that us 9/11 truthers all believe holograms flew into the towers at the behest of alien lizard overlords.

But when you start looking at the concrete evidence from mainstream media sources, the inevitable conclusion is 9/11 was in inside job.

[sam sarrha]

11. i have heard that Atta's passport fluttered down from the tower that he

allegedly crashed his plane into.. and the chief of police of New York caught it.. proving that he was the pilot of the plane, it was in near pristine shape..

from the first i felt it was either allowed to happen.. or the towers were defective and it was easier to fake an attack to start a war.. and collect on the insurance too.!! i have heard the planes were the only Boeing planes that can be controlled from the ground..

[Bushwick Bill]

22. Different guy.

It was a guy named Al Suqami, but it does seem impossible nonetheless.

Similarly, I just don't get how the Flight 93 coroner couldn't find any evidence of bodies or even blood, but in the Moussaoui trial they presented this stunning bandana.

[MissWaverly]

46. I refuse to believe that

I am sorry, is the price tag still on it.

[elliswyatt]

12. drinking, cocaine whatever

I know radical Muslims who do worse stuff. There are hypocrites in every religion, and sometimes the worst offenders will do the craziest things for "salvation"

[pretzel4gore]

13. blg #7,' vigilant guardian' ' northern vigilance'...etc

the biggest clue to it all though is the nov7/00 election, followed closely by the dec12/00 supreme court decision making geeb (brother of john ellis bush or 'jeb' gettit?) presidunce of usa....iow bush wasn't elected, and is a criminal. just taking the 'oath' of office, when he knows he's got less legit legal authority then you or me (who at least pay taxes) puts him in legal hell with the law, even w/out mentioning the xianiacs :)

[HamdenRice]

14. hookers in paradise

Did you know that local newspapers reported that both the Jersey cell and the Boston cell sought out hookers before the attack?

Did you know that they guy who provided $100,000 to Mohammed Att for flight school training and other expenses was meeting with the CIA, Pentagon, National Security Council and chairs of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees in the days before 9/11?

Google "Lt. Gen. Mahmoud Ahmad"

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. Wow, the OCTers are out in force lately

and they immediately jump every thread.

[MissWaverly]

19. That's okay, I understand 9-11 is an emotional issue

But, I think that we really need to look at it again, get the truth out, close the book and
heal the country. I am tired of terra, terra, terra, endless war, wiretepping and unlimited
presidential powers. I want my country back. A country capable of seriously investigating
something w/o namecalling or strongarming. I remember an investigation into the death of
our president which was handled with more respect for truth that what we have seen for a long
time in this country. I am tired of legality being judged as a "party issue."

[sam sarrha]

24. everything Bu$hitCo or their minions say is a lie.. so it isn't a party

issue, it is seeking the Truth.. what we have been told is a lie, if the media reported gov provided info it isnt true.. if they their lips are moving they are lying or they are blowing a CEO for campaign bribes.. previously know as 'contributions'..

[MissWaverly]

38. I have that Israel has widely criticized Bush in Europe

for his hand in planning the Lebanon Offensive, why don't we hear any of this, why do we not
hear news so that we can make decisions about what just happened. The Europeans probably know
tons of stuff about 9-11 that we don't know. I don't want to hear about Crawford, Jena and
Not Jena, I want to hear the facts about what is going on.

[ima_sinnic]

23. what is OCT?

[TahitiNut]

27. (Just guessing:) "Official Conspiracy Theorists"?

To distinguish those who generally accept the 'official' representations (which is, actually, a 'conspiracy theory') as opposed to those who shop at a bizarre bazaar of hypo-hypotheses that might include the Pillsbury Doughboy running amok.

I get nostalgic for the time I was a charter member of the Grassy Knoll Society merely be adopting a LIHOP belief.

[MissWaverly]

28. I know part of it is conspiracy theory

well the official version is just as much a conspiracy theory as what I read on my own.

[mikelewis]

33. The Official Conspiracy Theory...

The Government states that at least 22 people conspired to attack the United States on 9/11 by hijacking 4 airliners and crashing them into the Trade Towers. This attack alledgedly caused a total collapse of 3 buildings in the World Trade Center Complex to completely collapse. The other "Conspiracy" theories address the glaring and as of yet unanswered questions about the Government's theory. Contentious questions center around these areas of investigation:

a) The mysterious collapse of World Trade Center 7.
b) Damage and debris left from the attack on the Pentagon.
c) The rather inconvenient lack of an Air Force due to "wargames".
d) The links between the Bush family and the group Al Qeada.

If you haven't investigated the other "conspiracy" theories, I suggest starting with this speech by Dr. Griffin. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6837001821567284154&q=david+ray+griffin

[ima_sinnic]

36. oh, believe me, I have well investigated the other theories and

I know without a doubt that the "official" story is a total load of bullshit.

[MissWaverly]

40. Thanks for the heads up

it will encourage me to keep reading on this

[mikelewis]

53. When answering questions about 9/11, I try to be as helpful as...

possible. I assume that the questioner only knows the OCT and go from there. I'm glad you've done your homework on 9/11. I can think of no greater issue than revealing the truth about that day. Of course we can't turn back the hands of time and undo the evil done in the name of our self-victimization but at least we can stop using this lie to kill even more innocent people.

[MissWaverly]

58. thanks and there's still so much related to it

there's GITMO, the War on Terror, the Patriot Act, Wiretapping just to name a few things
and then there's the power of the Unitary Executive, if the War on Terror isn't real,
then Bush doesn't have war powers.

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. Some who

promotes the Official Conspiracy Theory otherwise known has the government's version.

CTer is a Conspiracy Theorist which includes anyone who dares question the official version.

[Gatchaman]

20. So they were hypocrites...

They're hardly the first religous zelots to be hypocrites. Still doesn't prove this "inside job" horseshit.

Besides, if it was an "inside job", wouldn't the 9/11 Commission be part of the plot? And wouldn't they produce an airtight report?

[MissWaverly]

31. no, I read something about the 9-11 Commission

"Kean reported that the federal agencies were insisting on having "minders present" whenever any of their employees were called to give testimony, which Kean (reasonably) interpreted as an attempt to intimidate these employees." The New Pearl Harbor, David Ray Griffin page 150

[ima_sinnic]

34. read up on it--every damn member of the 9/11 commission

personally benefited in some way by suppressing the truth and framing the gaping-hole bullshit "official" story.
so, yes, the 9/11 commission was "in on it"--why couldn't they be?
like I ask below, what in hell is so "unbelievable" about an "inside job"?

[flyarm]

76. absolutely most had saudi monetary ties big time!! n/t

[MissWaverly]

80. didn't Bush have like a $20,000 failed loan

tied to BCI which had ties to terrorist funding, I seem to remember reading that.

[petgoat]

90. "wouldn't they produce an airtight report?"

Too many things went wrong to produce an airtight report.

Building 7's collapse thought it was hit by no airplane, for instance.

Bush being forced to sit on his butt for half an hour in Florida.

Passengers maybe took over flight 93 and had to be shot down becauase
there was something about the hijackers--or the aircraft--that the gov't
didn't want us to know.

Somebody used way too much explosives on the twin towers and turned the
concrete to dust.

Norm Mineta saw Cheney discussing a shoot-down order on flight 77.

[ima_sinnic]

21. could even ONE nay-sayer explain why it is so unbelievable

that 9/11 was an inside job?

are GWB and his goons "too nice" to do something like that?
are they incapable of wishing harm upon American citizens?
do they have consciences and could never do anything like that?

why do people go running off screaming lalalala with their hands over their ears when somebody questions the OBVIOUSLY FALSE "official" version of 9/11?

why is it so hard to believe? why?

[AntiFascist]

29. The trick was not to make it an "inside job"....

Bush I learned this lesson when he decided to privatize much of the CIA.

[Howardx]

35. people dont want to believe it

its too massively evil to wrap their heads around

[ima_sinnic]

37. well gee they better effing get over it, because EVIL is exactly

what has taken over. In case nobody noticed, we had a little coup d'etat here in this country in 12/00.

[Howardx]

43. youre preachin to the choir!

amen

[MissWaverly]

45. yes, we know but no one else seems to

look at the "Attack of the Zombies" otherwise known as our GOP dominated Congress

[bobthedrummer]

52. The Pentagon was politicized by extremists of all sorts-the efficacy

of military coup was studied and written about in various think tanks.

Here's a prime example from the USAF's INSS published in October 1996.

"Melancholy Reunion: A Report From The Future On The Collapse Of Civil-Military Relations In The United States" by Charles J. Dunlap Jr.
http://www.guerrillacampaign.com/coup.htm

BTW, this "paper" didn't mention the use of inter service rivalry, mercenaries and other force multipliers to traitorously weaken and abuse our military as the Rumsfeld DoD has.

[MissWaverly]

61. not to mention AIPAC

they had spies inside the Pentagon, look at Larry Franklin, did that have any impact?

[bobthedrummer]

68. Dual citizenship of many PNACer's, appeals to RW Christian orgs,

the Abramoff Zionist nexus, JINSA-of course--and it's heartbreaking to those of faith because of the calculated pragmatism.

It's espionage and evil.

[MissWaverly]

79. Yes, and somehow there's the grey area

where they believe that the ultimate result would be good, their dream of a New World Order
or whatever, but no matter what they say the end does not justify the means.

[petgoat]

86. The usual arguments are:

1. Bushco is too incompetent to have pulled it off
2. It was too complicated, requiring a cast of thousands, and somebody would have talked
3. I don't believe the Pentagon missile theory and don't believe in webfairy's pods, and
therefore the official story is true

[MissWaverly]

92. well they said election 2004 was too complicated to rig

But I know it was rigged because I saw my voting machine default to Bush 5 times when I pressed
the Kerry button. It happened and I made an affidavit about it. But the point on
9-11 was that everybody was told to not talk about it so nobody knew what happened because many
eye witnesses were suppressed.

[texpatriot2004]

26. Inside indeed nm

[MissWaverly]

48. Something else I did not know

page 17 of Christian Faith and the Truth behind 9-11 by David Ray Griffin:

"Although the Taliban said that it would hand OBL over if the United States provided evidence
of his involvment in 9-11, Bush refused to provide any evidence."

[ima_sinnic]

54. I did not know that! about the Taliban offer. But am NOT surprised

in the least. That waste-product fouling up the White House has NEVER provided ONE IOTA of EVIDENCE that OBL had anything to do with 9/11. NOTHING.

Of course he would ignore that offer. That would have ruined everything for him. If 9/11 is "resolved," he can't keep waving his "terror" BULLSHIT in our faces. We could actually "move on" to something constructive, like health care, education, actual national security, jobs, and so on.

[MissWaverly]

62. I can't believe that we could have gotten Bin Laden

w/o going to war, that the Taliban would have helped us.

[JohnyCanuck]

78. For an explanation on why they needed a war with the Taliban

Pipelines To 9/11

By Rudo de Ruijter

17 August, 2006
Countercurrents.org


Our politicians have shaped the idea many people have of our world. They have divided our world into good and bad. Of course, they are the good guys and the ones they accuse are the bad guys. Simple, isn't it?

However, if we stick to the facts, and throw out all the information that comes from unverifiable sources, our world looks very different. This research article is intended to reveal the facts that lead to the US invasion of Afghanistan and to reveal the logical place of the 9/11events in that context. It is not meant to offend anyone. Don't read it if you are pleased with the "official" version of our history.

Immediately after 9/11 president Bush declared war to Afghanistan.

This article shows the role of Afghanistan in pipeline projects which determine US' control over oil and gas in Afghanistan's neighbouring countries.

Continued at: http://countercurrents.org/us-ruijter170806.htm

[MissWaverly]

81. Good read

But we could have switched over to alternative fuels by now with what we have spent since 9-11.

[MissWaverly]

63. I have thought about this also

If Osama (if he is guilty) and his supporters who helped (if they did) had been caught and
dealt with in October of 2001; then there would have been no War on Terror and Bush would not have had war powers all this time.

[MervinFerd]

49. An entirely weak argument....

hardly worth refuting.

Who's to say how crazy guys about to kill themselves will act?

[MissWaverly]

50. Okay, point taken

what about my post #48, what's your reaction there?

[SlavesandBulldozers]

60. do you believe the Iraq war was waged to get WMD's?

[rman]

83. Who's to say how a bunch of power hungry criminals will act?

If you want to create totalitarian rule, you'll need a crisis. The idea of creating a crisis for yourself is hardly without precedence - many politicians do admire Machiavelli.

Besides, Griffin does present quite a bit more than just one argument.

[MissWaverly]

55. Here's an interesting snip from the Rumsfeld Commission

Pre-911 thinking?

Pge 94

"History is replete with instances in which warning signs were ignored and change resisted until
an external "improbable" event forced resistant bureaucracies to take action. The question is
whether the US will be wise enough to act responsibly and soon enough to reduce US space
vulnerability. Or whether, as in the past, a disabling attack against the country and its
people-a "Space Pearl Harbor"-will be the only event able to galvanize the nation and
cause the US Government to act."

This was banging the drum for RAD in 2000.

[vssmith]

66. I am about half way through his latest book but....

the thing that makes me doubt the conspiracy is: it would have taken a fair amount of hands to pull this conspiracy off. How do you keep that many mouths shut?

[democraticinsurgent]

69. same way the JFK conspiracy went down

Use a lot of compromised people. Pay them well. "Suicide" or "Accident" the troublesome ones. The ones at the top aren't visible. The moles in the administration are few, but key.

Not that hard.

[MissWaverly]

70. well, I heard in Armed Madhouse how info on "terror" surveillance

somehow became available to campaign workers, oh, it probably went through stages of laundering
but Greg Palast had copies of lists with FBI Counterintelligence for War on Terror info
gathering ops in Latin America. Page 43 and 44 of Armed Madhouse

Now how do you keep that many mouths shut, well, first you lie, first you say, we are having
a security drill on a terror attack against the United States, then you assign people roles
in the drill but the drill is real but they don't know it. Then you have a small number of
recruits < than 19, at least 5 of these people have shown up in the Middle East so we know
they were not on the planes, so that means a dozen people, whether they knew the planes would
blow up, who knows since the planes blew up and so did the buildings. No planes for evidence,
no suspects for interrogation.

[flyarm]

72. NO IT WOULDN'T!!

I WAS LISTENING TO ALEX JONES ON MALLOY LAST WEEK and then watched video of professor jones from byu...IF IT WAS ALL COMPARTMENTALIZED.. and people did not know what they were doing..it would have been very easy

and many people would not have had to be involved.

fly

[MissWaverly]

74. and we see how people can use the excuse National Security

to get people to do crazy things, like open up all the bank records at my friend's bank of
anyone who has a business account, they come once a month to snoop!

[flyarm]

71. ATTA WAS ON ABRAMOFF CASINO BOAT BEFORE 9/11

IN JOHN'S PASS/TREASURE ISLAND FLORIDA

SORRY ST PETERSBURG FLA LINK NO LONGER WORKS

link has been scrubbed!
http://www.sptimes.com/News/092701/news_pf/TampaBay/Hij ...

JOHNS PASS TREASURE ISLAND WEST COAST FLA..NEAR ST PETE..

Why were Atta and 9/11 muslim hijackers on Abramoff's casino
boat?

St. Petersburgh Times
St. Petersburg Times, published September 27, 2001


TREASURE ISLAND -- Employees on a SunCruz gambling ship that
sails from John's Pass think some of the hijackers in the
Sept. 11 terrorist attacks were gambling on the ship the week
before the attacks.
TREASURE ISLAND -- Employees on a SunCruz gambling ship that
sails from John's Pass think some of the hijackers in the
Sept. 11 terrorist attacks were gambling on the ship the week
before the attacks.

The FBI is investigating. SunCruz Casinos has turned over
security videotapes and documents to FBI investigators.

Two or three men linked to the hijackings may have been
customers on the SunCruz ship that is based at John's Pass,
said Michael Hlavsa, chairman of the gambling cruise company.


...

The cruise line also is giving the FBI a videotape from a Port
Canaveral ship of a former customer that a casino manager
thinks resembles one of the terrorists.


Why were Atta and 9/11 muslim hijackers on Abramoff's casino boat?
Hmm, Muslim hijackers who partied it up with a stripper and cocaine, liked pork chops (see http://tinyurl.com/dkxv3 ), went to a bar the night before they were going to meet Allah , and, as if that wasn't enough, we now find out some of them also went out for "tours to nowhere" on casino boats, and not just any old casino boat, but one owned by lobbyist du jour Jack Abramoff. Why it is almost enough to make a person a conspiracy theorist.




The Secret World of Jack Abramoff:Terrorists, Torpedos and Republican Muscle

by Daniel Hopsicker

<snip>

The 'secret world' of Jack Abramoff being probed by investigators today has definite connections and unmistakable links to the one inhabited during their final year in the U.S by Mohamed Atta and the other hijackers.

So as the scandal embroiling House Major Domo Tom Delay and Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff grows hotter, there may be new revelations about the 9.11 attack.

One of the most amazing thing about this most amazing scandal—hundreds of millions in slush funds beats Oval Office blowjobs by a mile—is that some of the same names in the Abramoff scandal also surface in connection with Mohamed Atta’s.

Less than a week before the 9.11 attack, for example, Atta and several other hijackers made a still-unexplained visit onboard one of Abramoff’s casino boats.

http://www.madcowprod.com/06202005.html

[MissWaverly]

73. Jack Abramoff

The man that Bush does not know, who's been to the White House 200 times! Isn't he cooperating
with federal investigators, maybe they could ask him questions about Atta!

Good Catch!


;-)

[flyarm]

75. yes that jack abramoff's casino boat..and it was in st pete times

i live near that in fla....and this was never asked about by the 9/11 commission!
oh and it wasn't too far from where little lord pissy pants was on 9/11 ..about an hour away..

fly

[MissWaverly]

77. Well, well, another coincidence

Amazing how they never investigated that, wouldn't you think they would want to know where he
was before the attack and what he was doing there and who he was with on that boat???

[wildbilln864]

93. kick.