9/11 exposed soon

[Iwasthere]

I bet this is the reason for the timing here. Have you read the transcripts? Espeially the police reports where officers are stating they heard exposions before the towers came down. http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-transcripts / go to page 43 of the 100 pages on police reports to see just one case of this (I know this has been known for a while but reading it in the transcripts refreshes problems here for me). There are many many more. So many questions that are finally beginning to get attention. Hence... major distration needed immediatly!!!

[WoodrowFan]

1. great, another tinfoiler

please

a) post this in the 9-11 forum where this crap belongs

b) go away, shoo, We have enough tinfoil at DU already.

c) welcome to my ignore list. at few than 20 posts, a new record!

[Howardx]

3. oswald was the lone gunman

i suppose you believe that too

[WoodrowFan]

4. yep

because I have a working brain. BTW, C) applies to you as well. byebye

[Artdyst]

12. A "working brain" doesn't mean knowledge of the truth about JFK's murder

Maybe that IS the problem: there's not much there, but yes, it IS working. So is George Bush's.

[Howardx]

29. why do people think "ignore" is a threat?

wow big deal you put me on ignore, man im crushed

[greyl]

31. It was a notification.

To assume the poster thinks it's a threat is wild speculation. ;)

edit: clarity

[Howardx]

33. i thought it was a conspiracy

but im nutty that way

[John Q. Citizen]

7. He probably never read

the US House committee on assassinations' report.

He's probably never even heard of it, or more likely, he put it on "ignore."

Some people's brains only work when it re-enforces their tiny world view.

I like it when mean spirited self righteous know-it-alls stick me on their ignore list. They aren't mean spirited self righteous no-it-alls for no reason, after all.

[Swamp Rat]

2. Wrong forum. Post 9/11 conspiracy threads here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Welcome to DU!

[Iwasthere]

5. oops sorry

New here.

Isn't it interesting the response one gets... mention the word conspiracy in a crowd and watch the reations... we are being conditioned !!!

[Blondbostonian]

6. help me here Pat

Hi Pat:

Help me with the Conspiracy Theorist thinking.

The firefighters and police offices in the towers hear secondary expolsions and they should be fully believed and it's proof bombs went off.

Other firefighters see a huge hole in 7WTC and claim sio much debris hit it that it's tilted to the side with massive fires burning for three hours before falling but they are not to be believed and clearly a part of the government plot.

[John Q. Citizen]

8. I didn't see that

Pat claimed all the things you are attributing him/her with claiming, Blondbostonian.

Let me ask you this. Do you believe it is possible that a faction in our government conspired to bring about 9/11? Is that scenario a possibility, or do you believe it is absolutely an impossibility?

I believe it is a possibility that that 19 or more Arab foriegn nationals conspired to bring about 9/11 with no inside help, however I believe the probability is very small that it happened like that.

Your thoughts?

And welcome to DU!

[Blondbostonian]

10. Thanks for the welcome

Hi Pat:

Are you moving the goal line now? Perhaps you could answer my question first. CT's mention the recordings in the towers as proof bombs were there. They also believe the comments made on 7WTC are government paid off firemen or policemen. I've read that time and time again on the the different CT boards and blofs.

Here's the thing. I worked for Salomon smith Barney for three years at 7WTC up until 9/11. The idea that expolsives were planted without anyone knowing on the 28th to 44th floor is asinine. Some of those floors were trading floors requiring people there 24/7. As well, most of use were working insane hours (I was good for 80-90 a week). My job entailed me to hit many floors on a daily basis and I never saw a major construction job done in my time there. How was it done?

I don't believe anything is an impossibility. From the evidence and the experts, it's clear that the atacks were done just as the NIST report talks about. I do believe that we had more warning than has been brought out but if you're asking me if Dick Cheney helped this along to get the Patriot Act, then the answer is no.

I went to a school with a very prestigious engineering program and count many structural and civil engineers as friends. We have talked about the theories of Steven Jones and Judy Wood and they are looked at as junk science. There's a reason why Steven Jones won't have his work peer reviewed in an engineering journal. He knows it will get ripped apart.

I realize you believe this theory to be true. Insdtead of believing the propoganda of places like Prison Planet, try calling a university and talk with someone in the engineering department. These people aren't fearing for their lives or jobs as Jim Fetzer would lead you to believe.

[SidDithers]

13. Good post...

and welcome to DU

Sid

[petgoat]

14. Welcome to DU, Bos, and to the Dungeon. You were quick to find us.

The tapes and the testimony are evidence of explosives, not proof.
The proof of what happened--the WTC steel--was of course quickly
destroyed by the authorities.

Are you saying that controlled demolition could not have been
accomplished by planting charges in floors 1-27 and 45-47? If
the building could fall straight down from a natural collapse
without charges on the SB floors, I suppose it could fall from
a demolition without them. Did you consider that the building
was evacuated for six hours? That prepared charges hidden on
the 46th floor could have been installed on SB floors in that time?

talk with someone in the engineering department. These people
aren't fearing for their lives or jobs

They're fearing for federal research funding. They're also highly
motivated to rationalize their refusal to open the can of worms
these collapses represent. Without access to the blueprints and
without the luxury of hundreds of hours of study, how can they be
expected to even comment on a $20 million gov't study, let alone
challenge it? Dr. Eagar's speculations have proved to be a
great embarrassment to him.

There's a reason why Steven Jones won't have his work peer
reviewed in an engineering journal. He knows it will get ripped
apart.

Your frienda are certainly free to write their own paper, to comment
in this forum, and to comment at st911 http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/Comments_Jones_05May...

The Scholars' debate for September was postponed until March because
they could not find anyone willing to defend the official story.
Perhaps your friends could help there.

[HuskerDU]

36. You mean that noone would show up and defend the official

story? Deja Vu.

[John Q. Citizen]

16. My name isn't Pat, it's John Q. Citizen. It was I who welcomed

you DU. I assure you I wouldn't attempt to move the goal posts on you.

I suppose the format here can be a little confusing, even for someone who has many friends that attended a prestigious engineering program. If you look at the upper left hand corner of the post you are replying to, you will see what the name of the poster is.

I can't answer your questions that you directed to Pat, as I can only speak for myself.

I haven't read the comments of the fire and police who were at WTC#7 that you write about, but if you would post a link to those interviews/comments I would certainly read them. To the best of my knowledge the 9/11 commission report mentions nothing about WTC#7, nor does the NIST report. This has been one of the concerns of some members of the 9/11 truth movement. I have heard and read interviews of fire, police, EMT, reporters, workers in the towers, and citizens on the street who say they heard secondary explosions at the Towers, and I have heard what appear to sound like secondary explosions on audio tapes and video taken by the media at the scene. I do not believe this constitutes proof of anything, yet it is eye witness testimony. (there is a difference)

I am glad Dr. Jones is doing research on his hypothesis that controlled demolition of the WTC towers and
#7 is a stronger argument than the so far unproven hypothesis of the 9/11 commission as formulated by NIST,(the so called pancake theory.)To the best of my knowledge, neither NIST not the 9/11 commission did any research into the possibility of controlled demolition being a cause of the 3 collapse on 9/11

I do know however that before one can be published in an Academic Journal (including Engineering Journals) that the peer review process comes first, as does independent testing of the hypothesis. Only after that may a person's research be submitted to a journal for consideration for publishing. Please check with your many structural and civil engineer friends if you doubt me on this.

As I'm sure you are aware, there are literally thousands of various theories concerning the events of 9/11, including the theories put forth by the 9/11 commission and by NIST. I believe that only by testing the many theories can we approach knowing the truth of that terrible day.

Since the Director of the FBI has stated on the record that they are still unsure to the identities of many of the accused hijackers, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.st... (Director of the FBI's comments in the last paragraph) I believe keeping an open mind is more important that a rush to judgment, and it is certainly in the best interests of the security of the US.

[Brainster]

18. Quick Questions on WTC7 and 9-11

Great post. Were you working at WTC 7 that day? When was the building evacuated--before the second plane hit or after? Was there any evidence that WTC 7 was hit by debris from the second plane? I ask because some of the video from the second attack makes it appear that perhaps WTC 7 was hit before the North Tower came down.

[DemInDistress]

20. welcome to DU and the dungeon but first explain this..

http://www.terrorize.dk/911/wtc2dem3/911.wtc.2.demoliti...


what do you see? I see detonations !! then this:



how did floors 10/12 stories up from the impact site break? what is that flash?

[greyl]

21. I've already explained that one, remember?

edit: Once the picture is enlarged, the explanation becomes obvious.
That black knight is a tenacious sob indeed.

[Artdyst]

26. OCT'ers are hard-wired to not recognize detonations when they see them

You'd think that a OCT'er would have a better response than to try and be funny, but what else can they do?

[greyl]

27. Like most progressives, I'm no one trick pony, bud. nt

[DemInDistress]

35. thanks Artdyst...glad to see you have an open mind unlike

the folks who live in fantasy land. They know who they are. That video clip clearly shows "DETONATIONS" one of a few good clips at terrorize.dk.

All evidence points to an inside job. the administrations lack of investigation, failures to turn over evidential materials, NORAD, Giuliani sending WTC steel to China, bush/cheney testifying together no less.

Welcome to DU Artdyst !! and the 911 dungeon..

[petgoat]

15. firefighters see a huge hole in 7WTC

The problem is that the reports are mutually contradictory.

Captain Boyle said the hole was 20 stories high. Chief Fellini
said it was four stories high, betwemn floors 3 and 6. Deputy
Chief Hayden said nothing of any hole, but saw a bulge between 10 and
13.

The NIST photo below some claim shows the SW corner broken off.
But Chief Hayden didn't mention it.



The tower perimeter column "trees" were quite conspicuous
sticking out of the Bankers Trust bulding



and the WFC




No column trees have been photographed at the WTC7 wreckage pile,
though you'd think that the great interest in its collapse
would motivate the documentation of such a fateful chunk of steel
if it existed.


I am becoming comfortable with the theory that the structural damage
was exaggerated after the fact to explain why FDNY abandoned an $861
million building. On the afternoon of 9/11, given the widespread
belief that explosives had been used in the towers, to assume WTC7
might have been wired would only have been prudent. Of course,
after 9/11 such an assumption would have been politically incorrect.

[greyl]

19. Another pic of the major southwest damage to WTC 7:

Photo from : http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pd...

[petgoat]

22. Interesting pic.

Interesting that it shows up now, almost five years after
the fact. I've never seen it before. I've seen this one
of the same street; apparently the photographer here saw
nothing worth photographing above the sixth floor.

(second photo)
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/streets...

I've seen this picture elsewhere in the context of other
pictures presumably taken by the same photographer at the
same time, and there was no photograph showing that damage
among them. So it's been a secret all these years?

It's interesting that NOT ONE of the firemen said "the SW
corner was broken off between floors 14 and 8," not even
Deputy Chief Hayden who claimed that a transit on the SW
corner showed a bulge between 10 and 13.

This is seriously goofy.

[greyl]

23. The pic has been posted in this forum before.

Air-tight arguments against most elements of 9/11 CTs have been posted in this forum before.

But alas, Invincible Ignorance won't take a back seat to knowledge & critical thought!

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wildbilln864]

28. greyl

what do your criticle thinking skills tell you about the seismic time discrepencies mentioned in that other thread by quicknthedead?

[greyl]

30. They tell me

nobody has replied to post #59 there yet.

Let's try to keep discussions in their appropriate thread, ok?

[wildbilln864]

32. So you can't

apply those so called critical thinking skills without an answer to your post?

[petgoat]

34. I've been pretty ubiquitous in this forum for over a year, and I've

never seen that photo before.

I wonder how NIST manages to pull all these secret photos
out of their ass when FEMA couldn't find them.

I'll note that the mystery of the symmetrical collapse is
even greater with such structural damage.

I also wonder why nobody, not one person, testified
that the SW corner of the building was missing.



As to your airtight arguments--you can close your eyes
and you can cover your ears, but when you start sealing off
your lungs you'd better change your ways or you'll really
start stinking the place up.

[Jazz2006]

38. Welcome to DU, Blondbostonian

[Jazz2006]

37. Welcome to DU, Patmccccc

[John Q. Citizen]

9. Hi Patmcccc, Here's my take:

I don't believe the timing is related to revelations on 9/11 so much as to the upcoming mid-terms.

I also believe the overwhelming probablity is that 9/11 was facilitated with inside help.

Welcome to DU! and don't let rude self rightous know it alls get you down. There are a lot more nice open minded folks here than jerks, by far.

[Artdyst]

11. Would you kindly explain what in the Lord world you mean by this

"the overwhelming probablity is that 9/11 was facilitated with inside help."

[John Q. Citizen]

17. Personally, If I ask the

question, "Who benefits? I can answer that question. The neo-con agenda and those who promote that agenda benefit.

So my first inclination is to believe that someone who supports the neo-con agenda is responsible.

Also, it would require someone who could disable US air defenses and who could pull off an extremely complicated plot, so someone perhaps with a military background or with co- conspirators in the military.

We know from various news reports that a number of high ranking officials in the administration canceled their scheduled flights for 9/11. Willy Brown was reported to have been warned by Condi not to fly, and somebody or group of somebodies placed all those puts in the stock market. All that suggests fore knowledge by at least some high officials.

I personally believe the towers and WTC#7 had more help falling than just the airliner impact and the resulting office fires, or in the case of #7, just the office fire and peripheral damage.

The chances that the purported Arab hijackers did it alone is infinitesimal to none. They just didn't have the mental, physical, or political capabilities to pull this off, as in disable US air defenses, fly planes accurately at unbelievably high speeds and make extremely complicated maneuvers. The BBC has reported that at least 4 of the accused hijackers are alive and well, and the Head of the FBI says they are unsure as to the identies of many of the hijackers. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.st...

Atta and his buddies certainly didn't behave like devout fanatical Muslims, and they hung around with a lot of FBI/intelligence community connected type people.

So that's my true crime analysis in a nut shell.

[petgoat]

24. I'd believe the official boxcutter plot had some slight chance of

succeeding if the hijackers were tipped off as to when the war
games would totally disrupt the air defense.

Those who might wish the attacks to succeed would include
Russia, PNAC, and Israel.

The official boxcutter theory would of course have a greater
chance of succeeding if the disruption from the war games
was increased through slow implementation of a wargames
abort command.