How Did Flight 77 Find It's Way To Pentagon Without Air Traffic

[orleans]

controller's help?

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. Fly toward the Washington Monument

and hang a left?

Got me?

[LARED]

2. There are these things

called

Compasses, GPS, windows, natual features, rivers, cities, the largest ofice building in the world shaped like a pentagon, the position of the sun, etc, yadda.

It can't be too hard to find the Pentagon from the air.

[orleans]

9. but how do they do it without midair collision due to no help

from air traffic? and if they were flying over the clouds how could they see anything?

[LARED]

19. Huh?

but how do they do it without midair collision due to no help from air traffic? and if they were flying over the clouds how could they see anything?

Midair collision? How many planes do you think are up in any given moment?

Sept 11 2001 was a clear and sunny day.

[John Q. Citizen]

58. I guess the hijackers lucked out on planning it for that day. What if it

had been raining?

Then they might have had to reschedule for a day that America's air defenses weren't shut down.

[itzamirakul]

44. These 19 guys that were "supposed" to be brilliant enough to

take a few lessons on handling the palne in the air...bujt how did they know enough to locate the buildings. I am with you on that one.

In NYC, it was said that they followed the Hudson River that lead to the WTC, but then who taught the pilot to execute that nearly 180 degree turn to hit the second tower?

In NYC, the air is usually quite full. I often hear them.

[MercutioATC]

63. We call it the "Big Sky Theory".

It's a big sky. The chances of two planes ever actually hitting each other are VERY small.

[Jeroen]

50. Flight Management Computer (FMC)

All they had to do was to reprogram the onboard FMC.
Enter a nearby fix or waypoint and engage the autopilot (LNAV)
(you can find these waypoints on aviation carts )
At the same time , speed, rate of decent and altitude could be controlled by the FMC or autopilot. The decent rate could be calculated by the FMC.

[Make7]

3. It looks like they used the auto-pilot to get close Washington...

... and then probably were able to visually navigate the rest of the way.

At 9:29, the autopilot on American 77 was disengaged; the aircraft was at 7,000 feet and approximately 38 miles west of the Pentagon.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

- Make7

[BuddyYoung]

4. FL 77 wasn't scheduled for 911. Check the BTS records. nt

nt

[Make7]

5. I checked. This was the information given:

Summary Statistics
Flight Number

Airline: American Airlines (AA)
Flight Number: 0077
Time Period: September 11, 2001 to September 11, 2001

On September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight #11 and #77 and United Airlines #93 and #175 were hijacked by terrorists. Therefore, these flights are not included in the on-time summary statistics.

[BuddyYoung]

7. Here's the truth/proof . Your post is worthless except as disinformation.

The Bureau of transportation website contains search pages, where one can pull up detailed statistics about
the history of which flights have been scheduled for which airports on any given day. Go to

http://www.bts.gov/ntda/oai/index.shtml

and click on "detailed statistics" where one can search records of scheduled and actual departure times,
arrival times, diversions and cancellations by departure airport, arrival airport, airline and flight number.
Searches for Sept 11 2001 reveal that the flights AA 11 and AA 77 did not exist. They were not scheduled
that day.

[Bolo Boffin]

8. File not found, Buddy

Your link leads to this page:

Sorry! The web page that you're trying to reach is temporarily unavailable or may no longer exist. Please try one of the following:

* Check the spelling of the Uniform Resource Locator (URL) address of your web page to make sure that you typed it correctly.
* Click the Refresh/Reload button to try reconnecting.
* If the URL address is no longer valid, please send us an e-mail.
* Click your browser's Back button to return to the previous page you had accessed.

It's sad when pet URLs die, Buddy. Apparently the entire database is gone.

Which of course means that there are currently no flights taking off or landing in the United States whatsoever.

[BuddyYoung]

12. It's sad whenever OCT'ers try to avoid the truth by Spinning

The BTS records are accurate even if temporarily unavailable to the boloboffins of this GOPRworld.
Which of course means that the entire pet Conspiracy Theory woven by the Pet Shop Boloboffins of this GOPRworld is a fairy tale. And that's the truth.

[mirandapriestly]

14. That was pretty desperate

even for bolobuffoon.

[BuddyYoung]

15. "Bad Days at Black Rock" for the Spinning Wheel Brigade

* Bush book "reading" ("OSAMA Is The Scapegoat")

* FL 11 & FL 77 weren't scheduled & didn't fly on 9/11

* "Crashed" airliners weren't decommissioned until 2002

And there's more Osama on the way. "Spinners & Sweepers: Man your brooms. Sweep down all heads and passageways. The smoking lamp of truth is now lit".

[LARED]

20. The smoking lamp of truth is now lit

Are you sure it not a smoking bong you just lit?

[Make7]

52. Bad days at DU for BuddyYoung. RIP buddy. We'll miss ya! ( n/t )

Tombstoned

- Make7

[Bolo Boffin]

53. I wonder if the third time will be the charm?

:blush:

[Make7]

54. Doubtful. ( n/t )

[salvorhardin]

55. Poor BuddyYoung

Censored once again.

[Bolo Boffin]

18. My name is boloboffin

Kindly resist the temptation to attack me by mangling my name and I will resist the temptation to compare your pitiful attempts to intimidate with the character whose name you've stolen.

[mirandapriestly]

41. what a strange name for your parents to have given you

and I don't identify with the name I have, it was off the top of my head after reading the book, and you didn't even know what it was til it was in a Hollywood movie.

[Bolo Boffin]

43. You don't identify with your online identity

I have a little more care for my reputation than that, but people are different.

You can find my real name with one click, miranda. But then, you already knew that, didn't you?

[Norrin Radd]

49. You shouldn't accuse someone of stealing, when you have a

scan of a copyrighted Tolkien painting on your blog.

[Bolo Boffin]

51. Thanks for visiting my blog!

I doubt the Tolkien estate is too concerned with my use of his painting. Why don't you write them and turn me in?

[Norrin Radd]

64. Why would I want to do that? n/t

[mirandapriestly]

10. You mean "data and statistics"?

which would put you here:
http://www.transtats.bts.gov/

[mirandapriestly]

11. Also

FAA records show the planes to which AA11 and 77 were allegedly assigned - N334AA and N644AA as destroyed - but not until Jan 14 2002, when the FAA regulations state that the deregistration must be reported on the day that a plane is destroyed

[Make7]

13. Dude, you told me to check it out. That's what I found.

If you actually have the information that you want to present (with a working link), why don't you just share it with us instead of complaining about what we find when one of us actually checks out something that you have suggested.

To share some more information with you, I would like to present something else that I found at the BTS website:

Restrictions of Liability

BTS makes no claims, promises or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the contents of this website and expressly disclaims liability for errors and omissions in the contents of this website. No warranty of any kind, implied, expressed or statutory, including but not limited to the warranties of non-infringement of third party rights, title, merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose and freedom from computer virus, is given with respect to the contents of this website or its hyperlinks to other Internet resources. ...

http://www.bts.gov/disclaimer.html

- Make7

[BuddyYoung]

16. Dude, I won't make fun of your "research" skills, but I might laugh a bit.

nt

[Make7]

17. So then you don't actually have any information at all. ( n/t )

[Make7]

27. See Post #26. ( n/t )

[sabbat hunter]

21. page not found error

care to give us a working link to your theory buddy?

[BuddyYoung]

22. If you could prove the BTS wrong, would you?

If you could prove AA 11 and AA 77 were scheduled to fly on 911, would you?

If you could prove AA 11 and AA 77 flew on 911, would you?

Your posts are as empty of substance as the fairy tale you support and defend, and what's really scary is to think that you really might actually believe it and aren't just pretending to for youandWEknowwhat reasons.

[sabbat hunter]

23. how about answering the question

and giving us a working link instead of empty retoric?

[BuddyYoung]

25. You must be on some kind of list. I didn't have any problems w/the link.

In the meantime, if you can prove me wrong, have at it. Of course you can't, and since you can't and you know how devastating the truth is to the fairy tale you claim to support, you have to resort to the kinds of tactics DAs use, isn't it?

Got proof that EVEN ONE of the two flights was scheduled?

Got proof that EVEN ONE of the two flights actually flew on 911?

[Make7]

26. You didn't have any problems with the link?

Interesting...

What really happened to American Airlines Flights 11 and 77 on Sept 11, 2001.
by Gerard Holmgren . Copyright. Nov 2003

This material may be freely reproduced without permission providing that it is not for commercial purposes. Please include the author's name, the URL where you found it and the copyright notice.

(Author’s note Jan 9 2005 : This article was originally published here. Shortly after I published this article the BTS moved it’s database to a new location—and didn't leave a forwarding address. The new address is

http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/airline_ontime_statistics/

10 months after I published, they finally got around to doctoring the database as predicted at the end of this article. Links to back ups of the original BTS search results done in Nov 2003 are here 1 2 3 4

By visiting the original article, one can see that in Nov 2003, no-one in the comments column was disputing that I had accurately represented the contents of the data base. When I update this article, I will show how the BTS has made a mess of the cover up. Below is the article as originally published}

... snip ...

The Buruea of transportation website contains search pages, where one can pull up detailed statistics about the history of which flights have been scheduled for which airports on any given day. Go to

http://www.bts.gov/ntda/oai/index.shtml

and click on "detailed statistics" where one can search records of scheduled and actual departure times, arrival times, diversions and cancellations by departure airport, arrival airport, airline and flight number. Searches for Sept 11 2001 reveal that the flights AA 11 and AA 77 did not exist. They were not scheduled that day.

...

http://members.iinet.net.au/~holmgren/1177.html

I guess you must have been unaware that the BTS moved it's database. I'm surprised that you have no problem with the link to the old location. You must have a real good computer.

As a courtesy, if you plan on using someone else's research, you could at least give them credit. Considering that the message of your previous post is taken word for word from this Gerard Holmgren article, I'm pretty sure that it is not original research that you are presenting in this thread.

For someone that claims to be interested in the truth, perhaps you should start by actually using it in your own posts.

- Make7

[Ka hrnt]

28. Oh...my...GOD.

"As a courtesy, if you plan on using someone else's research, you could at least give them credit. Considering that the message of your previous post is taken word for word from this Gerard Holmgren article, I'm pretty sure that it is not original research that you are presenting in this thread."

Dude, that's one of the funniest things I've seen on DU yet (and I'd been lurking for ages prior to signing up). Chastise someone for their research skills while committing plagiarism yourself. Fantastic.

I suspected a few people of cribbing heavily in that thread about the not-so-excellent Excellent Video. That one kind of died off for some odd reason...

Edited for clarity & to fix link.

[sabbat hunter]

34. ,Make7 didnt plagerize

he gave proper credit for where the article came from and usually if not always does. it isnt plagarizing as long as you let people know where the info came from.

it is only plagerizing if you claim credit for it yourself.

[Make7]

35. He was leveling that charge at BuddyYoung, not at me. ( n/t )

[BuddyYoung]

36. See post #33. Other than Holmgren, what other 911 experts have you

studied? You people are amazing. You pretend like you've never heard any of this stuff that's been out for years, and all along you've known it too, because like us, you've read it all! Who told you to do that?

Now, one that I'm sure none of you are familiar with is Kiltown. Go read his stuff and come back and tell us why you still post nonsense about how Osama was able to defeat the entire U.S. Defense establishment.

[Make7]

42. Did you mean to reply to 'sabbat hunter'? Whether you did, or didn't...

... I've always found that killtown tends to have questionable interpretation of evidence and believes those interpretations are "smoking guns" that 9/11 was an inside job. I have yet to see one of his "smoking guns" that was actually evidence of anything conclusive.

Just look at the nonsense he posted over at www.letsroll911.org/thread. Even they don't believe it. LOL!

- Make7

[Ka hrnt]

46. Wrong person! :)

As Make7 noted, I wasn't directing the plagiarism charge at him/her. :)

[sabbat hunter]

47. ah ok

sorry about that :)


peace

[Ka hrnt]

48. No problem! EOM

[BuddyYoung]

37. Since you're new here, check this out.

http://killtown.911review.org/flight77/building.html

[Jazz2006]

57. Why would anyone want to "check out" your old site, buddy, killt... ameri

nittygr...uppanot.... oh geez, it seems you change identities faster than anyone can keep up with them, and ALL of them have been tombstoned.

Do let us know when you're back with the next half dozen or so of your latest.

(As if they won't be obvious.)

Sheesh.

[BuddyYoung]

33. You mean you already KNEW this, and just pretended you didn't?

The BTS data showing that FL 77 wasn't scheduled on 911 has been published many, many times. It's a fact that can't be refuted. Otherwise, all 50 OFT'ers here would have done so.

[Make7]

38. Did I know what? You were lying about the link working, or plagiarizing

... Gerard Holmgren's work?

- Make7

[sabbat hunter]

32. do you have any proof they didnt?

here is what happens when your link is clicked

Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS) - Research and Innovative Technology Administration (RITA) - United States Department of Transportation (USDOT, US DOT or DOT)Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS) - Research and Innovative Technology Administration (RITA) - United States Department of Transportation (USDOT, US DOT or DOT)
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[savemefromdumbya]

59. baggage handlers in Dulles have som einteresting info that they don't want

to share with you

[Make7]

31. BTS data lists AA0077 scheduled to depart at 08:10 on 09/11/2001. ( n/t )

[Sweet Pea]

6. Can you use a piece of electronic equipment?

Irregardless of the piloting skills of the hijackers, putting in a VOR or TACAN identifier or programming a GPS is not the most difficult thing in the world. The hijackers had had some high-level simulator time, so they obviously knew the layout of the cockpit and most likely at least the basics of the aircraft navigation equipment.

[wildbilln864]

24. sweet pea...

check out;
http://geocities.com/mknemesis/homerun.html

[salvorhardin]

29. Joe Vialls

Joe Vialls is the author of the piece you just pointed sweet pea to. Now there's a lovely piece of work.

Take a look at one of Joe's websites: http://www.joevialls.co.uk

In addition to being a raging nutcase, let's take a look at some of his headlines...

Zionists Nuke Downtown Beirut Again! (Updated)
Zionist Elite Prepares to Desert America, Pt 1
Zionist Elite Prepares to Desert America, Pt 2
Zionists Nuke The Australian Embassy in Indonesia
Russia Proves 'Peak Oil' a misleading Zionist scam
Experts prove Policewoman Murdered by Zionists
Zionists Murder Policewoman & Blair Blames Libya!
Zionists Murder For Oil - Shekhinah Getting Closer
Israel Uses Blatant Subliminal TV Techniques Against America
Israel Plans Blitzkrieg to Capture Arab Oil Fields (Part I)
Israel Plans Blitzkrieg to Capture Arab Oil Fields (Part II)
Israel Plans Blitzkreig to Capture Arab Oil Fields (Part III)
Israel's Mossad Bombed the Paradise Hotel in Mombasa
Mossad Mind Control "kee betachbulot ta'ase lecha milchama"
Shock Jewish Double-Standard on Prince Harry
Russia Ready to Vaporize The Jewish State with Sunburn
Remote Control QU-22 Bombs Jewish Quarter in Hollywood
Jewish Terrorists Blow Up Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem
Female Jewish Bomber Kills 12 in Jerusalem
Jews Kick Home Goal to Open the Gaza Season
Israeli Jews "Do a Waco" on Birthplace of Jesus Christ
Jews Pose for Snapshot over "Trophy" Kill in Palestine

Also, Wikipedia...

Vialls was an avowed anti-Zionist, alleging for instance that Zionists used a nuclear device in Bali. He also claimed most kidnapping of hostages in Iraq was done by the CIA and Mossad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Vialls

Now, if you want to play the "anti-Zionist isn't the same as anti-semitism card", let's go to Thomas Friedman quoted at Wikipedia:

Thomas Friedman also wrote that, "Criticizing Israel is not anti-Semitic, and saying so is vile. But singling out Israel for opprobrium and international sanction - out of proportion to any other party in the Middle East - is anti-Semitic, and not saying so is dishonest".<15>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-zionist#Anti-Zionism_and_Anti-Semitism

The fact that CTists see people like Joe Vialls as legitimate sources, despite the utter crap and hate people like Vialls spewed (he died in 2005) is just one reason the 9-11 Truth movement is taken as, at best, a joke.

[savemefromdumbya]

60. He's dead

[salvorhardin]

61. Yes, he is dead

I said that in my post.

The fact that CTists see people like Joe Vialls as legitimate sources, despite the utter crap and hate people like Vialls spewed (he died in 2005) is just one reason the 9-11 Truth movement is taken as, at best, a joke.

[Sweet Pea]

30. Uh huh

Whole lot of speculation in that piece of crap. I tend not to put much credence in articles where peopel make shit up when they can't find hard proof for something.

[wildbilln864]

56. Regardless of the messenger's reputation...

the fact still stands that the technology to remotely control passenger planes exists!
Nasa can remotely control rovers on Mars. Does anyone honestly believe our gubment doesn't have the ability to remotely control planes?

[mirandapriestly]

39. delete

didn't look at the name.

[mia]

40. Automated airplane landing systems could possibly do it.

http://www.facsnet.org/issues/specials/terrorism/aviation.php3

[Bushwick Bill]

45. Related issues.

How the F could ANYTHING the Pentagon 35 minutes afer the second WTC hit?

Could dumbass/incompetent Hani navigate that route or is there a magic GPS lock button he could touch that would take him to the target and his virgins?

[Sinti]

62. EZ - GPS enabled flight assist - no BFD - stunning work though

I think they're pulling your leg about the amount of training the guy had. Just my opinion, of course.