Sorry, but I don't buy the title "Jewish settler" as the MSM reports.

[bribri16]

These people are Jewish "occupiers" not "settlers" plain and simple. And i do not believe it is "anti-semetic" to say so. These people occupied land that was 'settled' and lived on by Palestinians. The homes and farms and vineyards of the Palestinains were looted, burned, destroyed, trampled and take over by Jewish occupiers. It's no different than what happened to the Native Americans, the South Africans, and all other peoples who had their land and resources plundered by colonialization. I am not arguing about the benefits or harm but just stating the facts. Occupiers and victors of wars have always written history to favor their position but the facts are forever written in historical minds of those who lived through it and passed on the knowledge.

[DistressedAmerican]

1. You Are Completely Right. Any "Settlement" That Remains Is A Continuation

of the occupation in the area where it is located. The Israeli authorities are right to crack down on these settlements and move the hell out of Gaza. They need to continue the process on all land not owned before 1967. Sadly, they won't.

[K-W]

2. I dont agree, I think settling is worse than occupying.

Imagine if we started settling Bahgdad.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. Agreed

[ixion]

3. settler = squatter / occupier

IMO.

[Darwins Finch]

4. Amen!

:thumbsup:

[Ian David]

12. Welcome to DU, bribri16, lvx35 and Darwins Finch

That's really neat that all three of you joined DU within about a week of each other (June 15th-28th 2005). I'm glad you've managed to find like-minded individuals so quickly.

Enjoy your stay!

bribri16
Jun 15th 2005

lvx35
Jun 24th 2005

Darwins Finch
Jun 28th 2005

[Darwins Finch]

33. Thanks, I think

Though I don't get the point about the dates and the "like-minded individuals" comment. I've been lurking here for over a year, and finally joined to chime in on a thread about human behaviour and evolution (hence my handle). Having found my voice, I'm now actively participating.

I hope that you're not implying anything unsavory here. As I understand it, that's a tactic unworthy on these boards.

[Darwins Finch]

37. Can you respond?

I really do want to know what you meant by your post. I enjoy finally being a member of this community, and I really want to believe that there are none of the self-righteous types here that plague so many other online communities.

Do you believe that three relatively new* posters can't have a similar opinion, one which is also similar to most of the other posters on this thread, including several 1000+ posters? Do you feel there is a conspiracy afoot to cast Israel in a negative light? Do you think there's a lot more bigotry here than people let on?

Personally, I am offended when someone tries to dismiss me without even trying to understand me first. Perhaps I'm reacting too emotionally to this, but by my thinking, childish jibes and insinuations don't belong in a place of ostensibly adult discourse and debate.

Honestly, I'm not trolling or trying to start some kind of ugly scene. I just want to know what you mean.

* "new" here indicates people who have just begun posting. I have no idea how long the other posters have, like me, lurked before joining.

[Monkie]

47. this thread will not have a long life,but their opinion is the majority

as far as i know polls worldwide tend to show the majority of people are not supporters of Israel or its policies.
So i dont find it strange that people join within a short time of eachother and hold the majority opinion.

[On the Road]

5. It's Definitely an Attempt at Framing

one I hadn't noticed.

[lvx35]

6. The great part: American Taxpayers giving them $250,000 each!

If you're talking about the 'settlers' being pulled out of the Gaza strip, bear in mind the 2.2 billion we are paying Israel for that, which comes to $250,000, or a quarter of a million dollars, for each illegal settler.
Crime pays in Israel!

http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=6683

[H5N1]

17. Man! Am I in the wrong racket. How do I sign up?

Guess I've not been paying attention.
250,000 per criminal, that is outrageous.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dogday]

27. Isn't it true that they wanted even more money from us

I thought I read somewhere that they wanted a few billion more from us as well... I don't think we have given it to them yet....

[KG]

7. since the US was built on the biggest land theft and genocide in history

those early american land thieves were portrayed as 'settlers' also.

[Ian David]

8. The Israeli government is taking up arms themselves to remove them

This would be like America sending in The National Guard to force Texans to move to Oklahoma so we could give territory back to Mexico.

But Israel is doing it.

Literally forcing their own citizens at gunpoint to vacate disputed territories in the name of peace.

Imagine if American troops started arresting Halliburton employees and forcing them to leave Iraq?

I won't address your other concerns right now, but I thought that the extraordinary lengths Israel is going to need to be acknowledged and applauded.

Welcome to DU, and enjoy your stay.

[K-W]

9. How does Isreal deserve credit when they created the problem? nt

[Behind the Aegis]

10. They created it alone?

I think not. It takes two to tango! Or perhaps 4.

[K-W]

13. Well, they had US support,

but other than that, no, it only takes Isreal to settle occupied territory.

[Behind the Aegis]

14. It took three invading armies...

...to help create the problem. Give credit where credit is due.

[K-W]

19. How did 3 invading armies settle occupied territory? EOM

[Behind the Aegis]

22. There would have been no OT had they not attacked. EOM

[K-W]

24. That addresses responsibility for the war, not the settlement.

Isreal is alone responsible for its settlements in occupied territory, it doesnt matter what led to the occupation.

[Behind the Aegis]

28. Cause and effect.

Israel settled a land it 'conquered.' Had no armies invaded, no OT, no settlers.

[K-W]

31. That is a rediculous rationalization of Isreal's crimes. EOM

[bloom]

18. I think Israel deserves credit

for standing up to the protesters - the people who want to prevent the "settlers" from leaving Gaza. Israel is not supporting the extreme right wing and that is a good thing.

I think the idea of the US paying for Israelis to resettle is crazy, however.

[Ian David]

32. I'm pretty much agreed with you on that

Although I also think it's crazy to keep paying Americans to re-build houses on flood plains every time they get washed away.

But for the kind of money we've spent fighting a war in Iraq, we could have probably simply bought enough of Iraq to end things peacefully without firing a shot, except maybe to put a bounty on Saddam.

Yeah, I think it's silly to spend $250,000 per settler (is there back-up for that figure?) but if we can buy our way out of bloodshed, it might be a good idea.

Personally, if it was $10,000 per settler, I wouldn't have raised an eyebrow.

[bloom]

35. From a pro-Israeli site:

Facts about the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the world's population.

Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U.S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.

Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.

Israel has the highest per capita ratio of scientific publications in the world by a large margin, as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.

In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the US (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

Israel is ranked #2 in the world for VC funds right behind the US.

Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.

Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies

Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East. The per capita income in 2000 is over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.

With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and start-ups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world (apart from the Silicon Valley).

With an aerial arsenal of over 250 F-16s, Israel has the largest fleet of the aircraft outside of the US.

Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.

http://www.newsoftheday.com/israel/old/2004_10_03_index.html

-----

I've seen Israeli per capita income stated as near $20,000/year (this said $17,500) while Palestinian per capita income averages $700/year.

And then people in the US are supposed to give the Israeli "settlers" money ($250,000 each) because they stop doing something illegal when Israel has destroyed so many Palestinian homes? I consider it outrageous beyond belief.

It seems to me - if anything - it would aggravate Americans more about the situation than they already are. Of course - for the people that don't really pay attention - I guess they wouldn't know.

The Europeans probably know, though. And then people wonder why the Europeans have a less favorable idea about Israel than Americans do.

[Ian David]

36. Not every Israeli is rich, you know. But agreed, $250,000 is too much

And there are also some very wealthy Palestinians. Arafat was one of the richest men in the world, for example.

But would you have paid $250,000 each to get Saddam's soldiers to throw down their arms if it would have avoided the war? And wouldn't that have cost less than we've spent on the war in Iraq?

And what is the source of the $250,000 figure being quoted, anyway?

I'm willing to admit that there are no easy solutions to this whole mess. Both the Israelis and the Palestinians are caught in the middle of a world full of people that want nothing more than to see them destroy one another.

You've got people (Muslims and Christians) urging the Palestinians to kill Jews, and you have Christians urging the Jews to kill Muslims, because they hate one side or the other.

And then there are Bush and the other Dominionists who don't really care so much about who "wins," because all they want is to trigger The War of the Apocalypse to usher in the Second Coming of Christ.

They're hoping for the mutual destruction of both sides.

Some of those people are settlers, building homes in territory that rightly belongs to them. Others are "occupiers," illegally squatting where they need to be removed.

The difference lies in whether or not they are in territory that has been officially ceded to The PLO as part of the formal peace treaty.

I have nothing but contempt for those who occupy territory that the Israeli government has conceded in their negotiations with the PLO. And as repellent as the idea of giving them money is, I would rather do that than allow the Dominionists to start World War Three.

[bloom]

39. If you google it - it's widely reported.

http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=6683


A Quarter of a Million Dollars Per Settler

by Charley Rees

The state of Israel – which, the last time I checked, was both a foreign and a sovereign nation – wants the American taxpayers to cough up $2.2 billion in addition to our regular $3 billion-or-so annual subsidy to pay for the withdrawal from Gaza.

Unless the American people raise hell about this, it's a done deal. In Washington, whatever Israel wants, Israel gets. Nevertheless, there are several reasons why the American people should rebel at the latest brazen attack on our treasury by Israel and its American supporters....

-----

[Ian David]

42. Your source (not necessarily you) is an anti-Jewish and bigoted liar

For example, Liberty Post / Liberty forum, IslamiCity

They all cite that Charley Reese (aka, "Osama's Mouthpiece") article as their source.

FYI: Charley Reese is a raving bigot.

That doesn't mean he's wrong. Even Bigots are right about something, sometimes. A stopped watch is right twice per day.

In any case, this is not an un-biased piece. This piece, the author, and its publishers have a very clear and well-documented agenda.

I'm not accusing you personally of anti-semitism. I'm just saying that the places where you are getting your information from are anti-semitic Jew-haters.

It's also misleading to say that each settler is going to be getting a check for $250,000. That's just how much the anti-semitic bigot Charley Reese says we'll be spending, not how much the settlers are actually getting.

See if you can find back-up from someplace credible.


<snip>

As for those Christian cultists who take one verse out of a very large Jewish Bible and claim that it binds us to help Israel, I would just say that if you believe God wishes modern Zionists to occupy modern Palestine, let him pay for it. When did we get appointed fiscal agent for Almighty God? And when did God ever need anybody's help to do whatever he wanted to do? And where is it written in the Constitution that Congress can tax the American people and hand the money out as a gift to foreign countries?

It's been said of the suicide bombers that they hate us more than they love life. Well, the American people are going to have to teach their congressional representatives and senators to fear them more than they fear the Israeli lobby, or the American people will continue to be not only taxed unjustly, but dragged into Israel's quarrels in the Middle East.

I always add (not that it does any good as far as hostile reactions from the Israel First crowd are concerned) that the Israeli lobby has every right to ask for anything it wants. The fault is not with the lobby; it's with the congressional representatives and senators who betray their oath of office and betray you in order to placate a lobby that has shown itself to be not only effective but vindictive.

But, hey, it's your country. If you wish to allow some weak-willed politicians to lay it to waste and destroy the future for your children and grandchildren, that's your decision. But I'm a strong believer that even people who wish to commit suicide should know what they are doing.

More:
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=102041



See also:

CAMERA: Charley Reese's Syndicated Propaganda
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_article=156&x_context=2


CAMERA: Charley Reese: Osama's Mouthpiece
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=699

[bloom]

48. the more positive sources

don't do a breakdown....


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4671169.stm

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/598223.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/11/AR2005071100154.html?nav=rss_world


... but anybody could do the math. Someone could quibble about some of the amount going to a military base - making it $175,000 per person m/l - but the effect is still the same for us.

[Ian David]

50. Well, it needs to be more clear that nobody is giving checks to settlers

That's like saying there are 22,219,289 people in Iraq and we're paying them $8,000 each to take care of them.

We're paying Israel to help clean-up a mess that we (and the rest of the world) helped create, so it does not escalate into WWIII.

How much money is it worth to save the world from global thermonuclear warfare?

[bloom]

51. I guess it goes to the issue of responsibility.

I think it is Israel that should be responsible for itself.

To me - it would make more sense for the US to help the Palestinians rebuild - because it seems like they have more severe losses - homes being bulldozed, land being confiscated.

In general - I think it's best for the US to just stay of it - so we are NOT taking sides. I would rather be a neutral party. I think that would go farther in avoiding "global thermonuclear warfare". :nuke:



"According to a report issued by the Palestinian State Information Service on June 8, during the first four months of Israel's “cease-fire”, Israeli occupation forces killed 38 Palestinians and wounded 411 others, while another 988 Palestinian civilians were arrested.

In direct violation of the cease-fire, Israeli occupation forces had also conducted almost 2000 incursions into Palestinian cities and villages, as well as at least 1100 raids on Palestinian houses. During the same period, 1306 checkpoints and roadblocks were also set up and at least 3380 hectares of Palestinian land was seized by the Israeli occupation forces.

Israel has also continued to build the illegal apartheid wall and expand its illegal settler-colonies in the West Bank of the Occupied Palestinian Territories."

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/634/634p18.htm

[Coastie for Truth]

41. We can disagree on resettling the Israelis -

but developing the OT and Gaza is another matter

And "we" were "facilitators" of the massive exploitation of the Muslim proletariat by the Oil Sheiks and the Oil Companies. Our soccer moms who had to drive the kiddies to soccer games in 12 mpg SUVs "facilitated" the massive exploitation of the Arab proletariat's birthright - OIL.

We may be paying a lot for oil - $62+ a barrel and $2.669 for self serve regular in Palo Alto today - but the Arab proletariat doesn't see that. It goes to "Big Oil" (ExxonMobil, Shell, BP, TexacoChevron, Conoco, Oxy) who skim some off of the top -- and do some refining (I'm a PhD chemical engineer - I have an idea what those costs are - and even at $62.50/bbl -- it isn't anywhere approaching $2.669/gallon)-- but most of it goes to corrupt and authoritarian oil sheiks -- who spend it on casinos and race horses and bordellos -- and on contributions to the "social works" front organizations of terrorist organizations -- and wahabi missionaries in Europe and North America ---but not on their people.

And like Castro's Mariel Boat Lift - these oil sheiks export their angry young trouble makers to Europe and North America.

I have predicted on my blog site --

The House of Saud will fall in a bloodier coup then the Romanovs

The effects throughout the Middle East will be bloodier then anything in Africa or the Balkans

The after effects will "spill over" into North American and Europe

ONLY TWO THINGS CAN STOP THE INEVITABLE--

--->MASSIVE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF THE WEST BANK AND GAZA - FUNDED BY THE EXPLOITERS AND THEIR ENABLERS -- SOCCER MOMS, BIG OIL, THE GOOD PEOPLE OF THE "DISINVESTING CHURCHES", THE HOUSE OF SAUD, AND
--->MASSIVE "MINERAL RIGHTS REFORM" IN THE SENSE OF CASTRO'S "AGRARIAN REFORM"

AND IT MAY BE TOO LATE

[Ian David]

43. I used to semi-seriously suggest that the answer to peace in Israel...

was for the Palestinians to have their own Club Med in Gaza.

They'd be less inclined to tolerate bloody terrorist warfare in a region where they were depending on income from happy, drunken foreign tourists who needed to be oblivious to any possibility of trouble or strife outside the walls of their all-inclusive resort bubble.

[Coastie for Truth]

45. I have heard that theory

a Shiia friend has suggested that Mecca - (and Jerusalem) become some kind of international "Chautauqua" outside of the Ramadan Holy Month and the Hajj.

And as a leftie in the (renewable, alternative, green) energy industry -- I have always advocated that mineral reform in the Muslim lands take the best of Venezuela/CITGO and Alaska's severance tax bounties and Texas' funding of higher ed (A&M, Prairie View, UT) - within a progressive, 21st Century Muslim environment. (Almost a return to some 21st Century, high tech, Andalusia).

But it is going to masive up front aid to jump start --- and make up for years (centuries) of exploitation by the West.

[Ian David]

46. Horny tourists in a resort near Mecca or Jerusalem not a good idea

However, a site that's not "holy" would be better.

Can you imagine something like, "Gay Day 2008 at Club Med, Mecca."

Also, don't citizens in Alaska get a royalty check every year for the use of their state's mineral and oil resources?

Why shouldn't oil companies do that around the world? Give the citizens of each country a yearly royalty check for using their resources? Be it mineral, oil, or biological?

[Coastie for Truth]

49. I was thinking more of the Elderhostel /archeology crowd

And - having grown up above coal mines (our garage and my swing set collapsed into a coal mine sink hole) I think the mineral exploiters should make the people they exploit as wealthy as the robber barons doing the exploiting (dad was a hard rock geologist who became a United Mine Workers "workers compensation" and "collective bargaining arbitration" lawyer after working in the mines).

[Coastie for Truth]

38. When they created alone? Please.

There was "history" and "diplomacy" and "politics" before the Internet and HTML and CERN and ARPANet.

Start with Engdahl's A Century Of War : Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order--->

<>

and go on to John Keay's
Sowing the Wind: The Seeds of Conflict in the Middle East--->

<>

and Google "Sykes-Picot Agreement"

The Sykes-Picot Agreement : 1916

The Sykes-Picot Agreement : 1916

It is accordingly understood between the french and British governments:

That France and great Britain are prepared to recognize and protect an independent Arab states or a confederation of Arab states (a) and (b) marked on the annexed map, under the suzerainty of an Arab chief. That in area (a) France, and in area (b) great Britain, shall have priority of right of enterprise and local loans. That in area (a) France, and in area (b) great Britain, shall alone supply advisers or foreign functionaries at the request of the Arab state or confederation of Arab states.

That in the blue area France, and in the red area great Britain, shall be allowed to establish such direct or indirect administration or control as they desire and as they may think fit to arrange with the Arab state or confederation of Arab states.

That in the brown area there shall be established an international administration, the form of which is to be decided upon after consultation with Russia, and subsequently in consultation with the other allies, and the representatives of the sheriff of mecca.

That great Britain be accorded (1) the ports of Haifa and acre, (2) guarantee of a given supply of water from the tigres and euphrates in area (a) for area (b). His majesty's government, on their part, undertake that they will at no time enter into negotiations for the cession of Cyprus to any third power without the previous consent of the french government.

That Alexandretta shall be a free port as regards the trade of the British empire, and that there shall be no discrimination in port charges or facilities as regards British shipping and British goods; that there shall be freedom of transit for British goods through Alexandretta and by railway through the blue area, or (b) area, or area (a); and there shall be no discrimination, direct or indirect, against British goods on any railway or against British goods or ships at any port serving the areas mentioned.

That Haifa shall be a free port as regards the trade of France, her dominions and protectorates, and there shall be no discrimination in port charges or facilities as regards french shipping and french goods. There shall be freedom of transit for french goods through Haifa and by the British railway through the brown area, whether those goods are intended for or originate in the blue area, area (a), or area (b), and there shall be no discrimination, direct or indirect, against french goods on any railway, or against french goods or ships at any port serving the areas mentioned.

That in area (a) the Baghdad railway shall not be extended southwards beyond Mosul, and in area (b) northwards beyond Samarra, until a railway connecting Baghdad and aleppo via the euphrates valley has been completed, and then only with the concurrence of the two governments.

That great Britain has the right to build, administer, and be sole owner of a railway connecting Haifa with area (b), and shall have a perpetual right to transport troops along such a line at all times. It is to be understood by both governments that this railway is to facilitate the connection of Baghdad with Haifa by rail, and it is further understood that, if the engineering difficulties and expense entailed by keeping this connecting line in the brown area only make the project unfeasible, that the french government shall be prepared to consider that the line in question may also traverse the Polgon Banias Keis Marib Salkhad tell Otsda Mesmie before reaching area (b).

For a period of twenty years the existing Turkish customs tariff shall remain in force throughout the whole of the blue and red areas, as well as in areas (a) and (b), and no increase in the rates of duty or conversions from ad valorem to specific rates shall be made except by agreement between the two powers.

There shall be no interior customs barriers between any of the above mentioned areas. The customs duties leviable on goods destined for the interior shall be collected at the port of entry and handed over to the administration of the area of destination.

It shall be agreed that the french government will at no time enter into any negotiations for the cession of their rights and will not cede such rights in the blue area to any third power, except the Arab state or confederation of Arab states, without the previous agreement of his majesty's government, who, on their part, will give a similar undertaking to the french government regarding the red area.

The British and french government, as the protectors of the Arab state, shall agree that they will not themselves acquire and will not consent to a third power acquiring territorial possessions in the Arabian peninsula, nor consent to a third power installing a naval base either on the east coast, or on the islands, of the red sea. This, however, shall not prevent such adjustment of the Aden frontier as may be necessary in consequence of recent Turkish aggression.

The negotiations with the Arabs as to the boundaries of the Arab states shall be continued through the same channel as heretofore on behalf of the two powers.

It is agreed that measures to control the importation of arms into the Arab territories will be considered by the two governments.

I have further the honor to state that, in order to make the agreement complete, his majesty's government are proposing to the Russian government to exchange notes analogous to those exchanged by the latter and your excellency's government on the 26th April last. Copies of these notes will be communicated to your excellency as soon as exchanged.I would also venture to remind your excellency that the conclusion of the present agreement raises, for practical consideration, the question of claims of Italy to a share in any partition or rearrangement of turkey in Asia, as formulated in article 9 of the agreement of the 26th April, 1915, between Italy and the allies.

His majesty's government further consider that the Japanese government should be informed of the arrangements now concluded.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/sykes.htm

<>

http://www.mideastweb.org/mesykespicot.htm

The Sykes-Picot Agreement of May 16, 1916 was a secret understanding between the governments of Britain and France defining their respective spheres of post-World War I influence and control in the Middle East and remains much of the common border between Syria and Iraq.

The agreement was negotiated in November 1915 by the French diplomat Georges-Picot and British Mark Sykes. Picot was far more experienced and managed to get much more than he was expecting for France.

Britain was allocated control of areas roughly comprising Jordan, Iraq and a small area around Haifa. France was allocated control of South-eastern Turkey, Northern Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. The controlling powers were left free to decide on state boundaries within these areas.

The area which subsequently came to be called Palestine was for international administration pending consultations with Russia and other powers. This area, subject to significant subsequent controversy, had the following borders:

* Southern: approximately mid way between Balah and Gaza, eastwards to the Dead Sea in a horizontal line, passing north of Beersheba and south of Hebron.
* Eastern: starting at the Dead Sea in the south it proceeded roughly due north along the river Jordan to Lake Tiberius and a few miles north of the lake.
* Northern: a line approximately west-northwest from the area just north of Lake Tiberius, passing barely south of Tzfat to met the sea approximately mid way between Haifa and Tyre.
* Western: the Mediterranean Sea.

Maps at firstworldwar.com and us-israel.org illustrate the areas more clearly than words.

This agreement is viewed by many as conflicting with the Hussein-McMahon Correspondence of 1915–1916. The conflicting agreements are the result of changing progress during the war, switching in the earlier correspondence from needing Arab help to subsequently trying to enlist the help of Jews in the United States in getting the US to join the First World War, in conjunction with the Balfour Declaration, 1917. The agreement had been made in secret. Sykes was also not affiliated with the Cairo office that had been corresponding with Sherif Hussein ibn Ali, and was not fully aware of what had been promised the Arabs.

The agreement was later expanded to include Italy and Russia. Russia was to receive Armenia and parts of Kurdistan while the Italians would get certain Aegean islands and a sphere of influence around Izmir in southwest Anatolia. The Italian presence in Anatolia as well as the division of the Arab lands was later formalized in the Treaty of Sevres in 1920.

The Russian Revolution in 1917 led to Russia being denied its claims in the Ottoman Empire. At the same time Lenin released a copy of the confidential Sykes-Picot Agreement as well as other treaties causing great embarrassment among the allies and growing distrust among the Arabs.

Attempts to resolve the conflict were made at the San Remo conference and in the Churchill White Paper of 1922, which stated the British position that Palestine was part of the excluded areas of "Syria lying to the west of the District of Damascus".

The agreement's principal terms were reaffirmed by the inter-Allied San Remo conference of 19–26 April 1920 and the ratification of the resulting League of Nations mandates by the Council of the League of Nations on July 24, 1922.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes-Picot_Agreement

READ! BE ALL YOU CAN BE -- READ! READ AND ANALYZE!
PROGRESSIVES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO READ CRITICALLY AND ANALYZE

One of the many myriad purposes of Sykes-Picot (besides "OIL") was to insure European hegemony on the Eastern Littoral of the Mediterranean - i.e., Syria, Lebanon, Israel/Palestine -- specifically by creating small, multi-ethnic, multi-confessional, multi-ethnic ("warring") states. This would keep any powerful state from developing in the Levant - and challenging British-French hegemony of the Mediterranean approaches to the Suez Canal (remember - this is before the Internet and the wide body jet - when Britain ruled East Adrica and South Asia, and Australia and New Zealand).

BTW- before putting too much stock in the Balfour Declaration - recall The "White Paper" and re-read the Sykes-Picot Agreement.

[Ian David]

44. Easier than reading. They should watch this movie trailer online

http://www.shoebat.com/trailer_exodus.php

And rent or buy the film

THE SILENT EXODUS

Silent Exodus was selected at the International Human Rights Film Festival of Paris (2004) and presented at the UN Geneva Human Rights Annual Convention (2004)

In 1948 nearly one million Jews lived in Arab lands. But In barely twenty years, they have become forgotten fugitives, expelled from their native lands, forgotten by history and where the victims themselves have hidden their fate under a cloak of silence.

A people whom legend have always associated with "wandering" many of these Jews from Arab lands had lived there for thousands of years and accepted their fate, through good times and bad times.

But 1948, the beginning of their exodus, also saw the birth of the State of Israel.

And, while the Arab armies were preparing to invade the young refugee-country, the survivors of the Shoah were piling up in rickety boats. Meanwhile a few hundred thousand Arabs from Palestine were getting ready to flee their homes, convinced that they would return as winners and conquerors.

Soon - by a terrible twist of fate they, as well, began to fill up refugee camps and passed on their refugee status to new generations.

The Jews, however, did not receive refugee status.

They had just rediscovered the land of their birthright.

And if they came from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq or from Yemen, if they had lost everything, even their relatives and their cemeteries, they were ready to rebuild their lives in the West and for many - in Israel - and try to forget their past.

Without ever asking for compensation or the right of return, or even wishing that their story be told...

More:
http://www.pierrerehov.com/exodus.htm

Purchase:
http://www.katinaproductions.com/rehov/purchase.html

[Darwins Finch]

15. Actually...

It's more like The National Guard being used to get Texans to move out of Mexico and back into Texas.

Gaza & the West Bank are NOT Israeli territory, so the occupation is of foreign land. Perhaps that's a bit clearer than your analogy.

[Ian David]

16. Sure. We stole Mexico fair and square, didn't we?

That whole thing with The Alamo was really nothing more than stagecraft.

[K-W]

21. But since then the world has accepted our borders.

Including Mexico.

Isreal is in violation of the internationally recognized borders, so there is a difference.

[Ian David]

29. If Texas were full of Jews, I don't think the world would be so accepting

We had some occupiers there, and then they (and we) fought to make that occupied territory part of America.

And does Mexico really have a choice about accepting the border?

I think there might have been some guns involved in the negotiating.

I'm not sure. Maybe I should check Google, but I don't think Mexico was particularly enthusiastic about the deal. For example, I think I remember something about "The Alamo."

[Behind the Aegis]

30. Actually

Some of the middle states in the US were considered for a Jewish homeland, although, I never seen which states were named.

[K-W]

34. I think the time period was the issue, not Judiasm.

By the time we actually had international law and international government, the border had already been established.

[Darwins Finch]

25. Oops

Sorry, it looks like I might've misunderstood your original post. I was just trying to make a parallel saying that the current situation was like driving people back into their own nation and off stolen lands, and I was (mis)reading yours as saying that the people of one nation were "sacrificing" their own land instead.

But yes, yours is more accurate for drawing the analogy that in both cases, it would be turning the land back over to the original peoples. Sorry about that, I got hold of it wrong way 'round. :)

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

20. "Welcome to DU, and enjoy your stay."

Snarky is what that comment is. And your analogy is crap. Israel is way overdue at righting this wrong.

[stray cat]

26. Sure sounds like American settlers in America

We occupied America when other people were here and eventually killed many of the original inhabitants. I think we should all leave because we were and are a nation of occupiers - it is just many years later for us.

I think we may have even attacked the original occupants first instead of taking over a region after defeating invading forces.

[pelsar]

40. occupiers....

not just americans...austrailians....Englanders...France...Spain (just reoccupied an island last year....) the list is actually quite long and probably includes every country on this planet.....

so why all this jumping on israel for...all they do was repulse an attack by invading armies...push them back and what has been traditional since humans began attacking each other...take the land that the attackers lost....which is actually far less than what america has done, or France or England....

[Lithos]

52. Locking per I/P guidelines

Not based on a recent news or op-ed story.

Lithos
I/P Forum Moderator