Dialogue of the deaf

[Colorado Blue]

The age of terror, it seems, has sprouted an era of dialogue. A host of conferences meant to bring together East and West have been cropping up. There was World Economic Forum's recent Middle East regional summit in Jordan. A few weeks before the star-studded Mideast "Davos" conference, I had the opportunity to attend the similarly high level US-Islamic World Forum, held in Doha, Qatar.

snip

As a person sensitive to this issue, I was deeply impressed by the civility with which the issue was discussed...I was curious to find out what the participants had in mind when they pressed for "progress" on the Palestine issue: progress toward what?

Deep in my heart, I had hoped to find the Doha participants more accommodating of the so-called "two-state solution" and the road map leading to it. If this were not the case, I thought, then we were in big trouble again. Muslims might be nourishing a utopian dream that the US cannot deliver and, sooner or later, the whole dialogue process, and all the goodwill and reforms that depend on it, would blow up in the same conflagration that consumed the Oslo process.

snip

The author reports his disappointment at finding no accomodation for idea of Israel's existence, even in the context of this civil and intellectual meeting:

snip

This was somewhat disappointing to me, given the official Palestinian Authority endorsement of the road map. "Road map to what?" I thought, "to a Middle East without Israel?"...I discussed my disappointment with an Egyptian scholar renowned as a champion of liberalism in the Arab context. His answer was even more blunt: "The Jews should build themselves a Vatican," he said, "a spiritual center somewhere near Jerusalem. But there is no place for a Jewish state in Palestine, not even a national-Jewish state. The Jews were driven out 2,000 years ago, and that should be final, similar to the expulsion of the Moors from Spain 500 years ago."

The problem with Muslim elites could be seen again, even at the University of California at Irvine, where the Muslim Student Union organized a meeting entitled "A World Without Israel" - cut and dry. Also in May came a colorful radio confession by the editor of the Egyptian newspaper Al-Arabi Abd al-Halim Qandil: "Those who signed the Camp David agreement ... can simply piss on it and drink their own urine, because the Egyptian people will never recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli entity."

snip

One side dreams of a world without Israel, the other sees Israel as a major player in the democratization and economic development of the region. Will this clash of expectations burst into another round of bloodshed? My heart goes out to all the Europeans and Americans who believe they have found a spark of flexibility on Israel's legitimacy in the progressive Muslim camp. But looking ahead at the plentiful attempts to build bridges to the Muslim world, one wonders whether this outpouring of goodwill should not first be harnessed toward hammering out basic common goals and educational campaigns to promote them, rather than glossing over oceans of fundamental disagreement. Failure to address uncomfortable differences has a terrible way of extracting higher costs later on.

***

The writer is president of the Daniel Pearl Foundation, an organization that promotes cross-cultural understanding named after his son, a Wall Street Journal reporter murdered by terrorists in Pakistan in 2002.

***

Note, this is a long article and I've altered things here and there to accomodate DU copywrite regulations.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1118888333134&apage=2

[Colorado Blue]

1. Permit me to express despair.

The fact is, without some positive response from the Muslim community, I don't see how all the "roadmap" concessions, the withdrawal from the OT, the heartfelt attempts to reach out and forge a lasting peace, can result in anything but more war.

This is behind much of the obstinance in the Jewish community, to the withdrawal/roadmap process. Why, they say, should we weaken ourselves militarily, only to suffer renewed attacks?

If the author is correct, there is just no ability to see the Israeli - or the Jewish - POV on this at all. There is no empathy whatsoever, and no desire, even, to co-exist.

Ironically, with worldwide antisemitic sentiments and attacks growing exponentially, the need for Israel, for the Jewish state, is stronger than ever.

I really don't know what to do, and feel deep sorrow and concern.

[forwardthinker]

2. sorrow and concern

Although I am too young to have heard J.F.K.'s famous "New Frontier" speech live, I remember very clearly the tears that filled my eyes and ran down my face when I first heard a recording of it. It seems that new frontier is ever-changing. The Spanish eviction of the moors is an interesting parallel to the Israel/Palestine situation. And let us not forget our own nation, and culture, built upon the manipulation and exploitation of people from all over the world and the greatest land grab of all, which we perpetrated, and some would say continue to do...

The days of unlimited space, the days of conquering hordes, are over. We didn't let Hussein take Kuwait. The world is in desperate need of truly inspirational leadership, and we in the U.S.A. are no exception. No progress can be made for Palestinians until the leadership of both sides is bringing to the table a sincere commitment to a peaceful future in which everyone benefits and there cease to be such uncrossable divides.

If one believes that the Jews were evicted by the Muslims fair and square 2,000 years ago, then by that logic the Palestinians were also evicted fairly, as were the Moors, as were the Mayans evicted by the Aztecs, who were in turn evicted by the Spanish. I'm sure that if one digs deep enough, neither Palestinian nor Jew is completely free of hypocrisy and treachery toward the other side. The fact is that both sides feel a divine right to live on "their" land; counting out genocide of either party as a solution, peaceful coexistence or perpetual war until neither civilization is sustainable nor civilized any longer become the only solutions. Until these nations have leadership strong enough to show their people the humanity of their enemies, and the wisdom of living in harmony, there will never be progress.

[Colorado Blue]

4. Well said. nt

[Bridget Burke]

10. The Jews were "evicted" by the Romans.

Mohamed was born in 570--there were no Muslims 2000 years ago. The Aztecs did not displace the Maya--Aztec trade policies were somewhat imperialistic, but they occupied different parts of Mesoamerica. The Spanish did not displace the Aztecs; they conquered them but did not kill them all. Spanish policies caused much pain to the peoples of the New World, but the English colonists were much better at killing them off or moving them out.

Why the historical niggling? Because bad leadership is not the only problem. Look at the outside forces (often imperialistic) that nurture conflicts.

[Igel]

11. Oooh ... you actually nailed part of the problem.

"If one believes that the Jews were evicted by the Muslims fair and square 2,000 years ago, then by that logic the Palestinians were also evicted fairly, as were the Moors ..."

One contingent does, indeed, believe that Arabs and Muslims evicted the Jews 2k years ago. The Arabs founded Jerusalem: all the various names given to the peoples there by the OT/Jews and by the Greeks and Romans were just different names for Arab tribes. The Muslim conquest (everywhere) was greeted with cheers and celebration; many Arabs converted not from threats and oppression, but "reverted" because they were Muslims all along.

If you think that the Muslims/Arabs weren't there to evict the Jews (and there's no evidence outside of Muslim revisionism for the idea), then the driving out of the Jews vs. the driving out of the Moorish/Muslim invaders loses its parallelism.

The two sides can't even agree on the facts on the ground.

[drdon326]

3. "A World Without Israel"

NO,NO,NO....THEY JUST WANT PEACE.


My ass

[dameocrat]

5. We don't know they weren't advocating a multicultural state

That is already happening anyway. It is the Israelis that are doing it. If the writer himself isn't serious about the roadmap why should the Arabs be serious about it. If he wants two states why doesn't he dismantle the settlements, so a Palestinian state can happen. I won't subscibe to jpost to find out. It is jsut a Bush propaganda machine.

[Colorado Blue]

6. Multicultural state? I don't think that's what they have in mind.

More from the article:

I discussed my disappointment with an Egyptian scholar renowned as a champion of liberalism in the Arab context. His answer was even more blunt: "The Jews should build themselves a Vatican," he said, "a spiritual center somewhere near Jerusalem. But there is no place for a Jewish state in Palestine, not even a national-Jewish state. The Jews were driven out 2,000 years ago, and that should be final, similar to the expulsion of the Moors from Spain 500 years ago."

This was no Bush publicity stunt. This attitude is reflected again and again in literature, on the 'net, in speeches and sermons.

Moreover, look at the true history of minority religious and ethnic groups in this part of the world. There is no pattern of equality whatsover. Democracy is a completely foreign idea here, one that is, nevertheless, catching on slowly but surely.

And there is an ABSOLUTE refusal to accept Jewishness as a culture, and Jewish people as a people, as a nation.

Having said that, there are Muslim scholars who disagree, but they are not common.

The best chance lies, perhaps, in the fact that the Maghreb states see themselves as being a bit different from the West Asian states, and in the simple business of day to day living: eventually, if conditions improve economically and socially for people, the conflicts will die down.

But this will take time and patience.

[dameocrat]

7. This was an ISLAMIC conference

not a conference of ordinary Arabs, more imporatantly it wasn't a conference of Palestinians. It is probably like searching for reason at a conference of the moral majority. Anyway, the people of this conference aren't in control of squat nor are they the reason there isn't two states. The reason there isn't two states is because Israel tolerates settlements which make them impossible.

[Colorado Blue]

8. Do you think the intellectual elite is thinking differently than

the local Palestinians?

And that, in fact, the Palestinians accept the existence of Israel?

[dameocrat]

9. We only have his claim that these are intellectual elites

They just look like Islamic brotherhood to me.

Yes, the Palestinian in polls have expressed over and over there desire for a two state solution.