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Flagg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:59 PM
Original message
Indignant France sees ulterior motives in Sharon's emigration plea
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 01:00 PM by Flagg
INDIGNANT FRANCE SEES ULTERIOR MOTIVES IN SHARON'S EMIGRATION PLEA
Received Monday, 19 July 2004 12:24:00 GMT

PARIS, July 19 (AFP) - France reacted with indignation Monday to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's call for Jews to flee to Israel, with politicians, press and religious leaders angrily rejecting his claim that the country is prey to the "wildest anti-Semitism."

<SNIP>

But French Jewish leaders, who have persistently denounced the growing violence against their 600,000 strong community, rallied against the comments, with Richard Prasquier of the Representative Council of Jewish Institutions (CRIF) accusing Sharon of "pouring oil on the fire in an unacceptable fashion."
"Some Jews are indeed asking questions about leaving. That is true. But in order to leave one must be of the opinion that the situation is out of control. And that is not the case," he said.
According to figures from the Jewish Agency, the body responsible for "aliyah" or immigration to Israel, some 2,300 French Jews made the move in 2003, a slight drop on the previous year. However the figure was less than 1,000 three years ago, before the start of the second Palestinian intifada.
<SNIP>

The newspaper said that by slurring France's name with none-too-subtle associations with the wartime Vichy era, the prime minister wanted to remove the country's legitimacy as a partner in the Middle East peace process.
"His assault is aimed at undermining the credibility of President Jacques Chirac, one of the European Union's most eloquent advocates for a Palestinian state," it said.
The left-leaning Le Monde agreed, saying that since the September 11 attacks some American Jewish organisations have been bent on portraying France as a country "complicit in the Holocaust, where not a single Jew can feel safe. For two years these accusations have poisoned not just Franco-American relations, but Franco-Israeli relations too."
The evidence, according to Le Monde, is that Sharon is concerned less about provoking a rush of emigrants from France -- which he knows is unlikely -- than in "disqualifying France from the political game in the Middle East."
"The message the Likud leader wants to pass to the American organisations is the following: that a political resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a matter between Israel and the US, and that Europe -- sullied by its pro-Arab prejudice -- must remain confined to its role as banker," it said.

http://www.ttc.org/200407191224.i6jcood01586.htm
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good to see French Jews calling Sharon on his bullshit
They're FRENCH citizens, and likely patriots. They're right to tell him to fuck off.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Good to see Sharon calling the French on their bullshit.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 01:07 PM by Jim Sagle
He's right to tell them to fuck off.

(And no, I'm not a major fan of Sharon in general.)
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Flagg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:08 PM
Original message
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 01:10 PM by Flagg
:eyes:
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Why is it that French Jews are overwhelmingly siding with Chirac?
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 01:08 PM by geek tragedy
Could it be that Sharon doesn't have the best interests of French Jews in mind, but rather is trying to buttress Israel's Jewish population?

Chirawwwwwwwwwwwkkkkkkks!
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. And you know this, how?
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Well, their leaders are defending Chirac, they are staying at home, and
I'm assuming they don't have dual loyalties, but rather are loyal to France, not Israel.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Nothing like facts and common sense
To make a strong argument. Good on you, geek :)
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. He's a "man of peace,making the world a better place"
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Bwahahaha..
Remember that meeting between Shrub and Sharon. It looked like Shrub was being walked on a leash....

"Don't worry about the americans we own them."
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. That's a fake quote. It's been debunked.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. I wish someone would debunk the quote I provided too
Alas,I saw it with my own amazed eyes.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Sorry, I can't help you there.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I know you can't
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
34. one brick at a time
:silly:
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dudeness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
44. brick by brick
:)
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. oh bullshit..
You've sung Jabba's praises on a number of occasions.

As for his motivations, those are obvious:--available cannon fodder arriving from outside lands has been dwindling; such quotas need to be bolstered by any means.
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Exactly...
And the USA along with the Christian fundies are more than happy to fund the illegal settlements...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Come you can do better...back it up with some facts...EOM
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. "Ariel's da man, doin' the best he can...to make the world a better place"
Not a lot of ambiguity there..
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Reach out and touch...Somebodys hand....
Make this world a better place...if you can.... :smoke:
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. That only applies on his good days.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #38
53. Truth hurts...
even when deleted...ain't that a bitch...
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. A LIKUD fan, are we? The right wing extremists of Israel.....
what a great group to support.....NOT!!!

:kick: :kick: :kick:
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IA_Seth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. uh, yeah ok
And by "not a major fan" you mean what?

I would LOVE to hear you back up a feeling or claim one time, and this one would be the best. This would require you to say something even remotely negative about Israel's leadership, which I have never witnessed you do.

Tell us please, Mr Sagle, why aren't you a big fan of Sharon? Please do not use Raaaaaaaaaawwks or Suuuuuuuuuuuuuucks or one of your other common descriptions.

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Snoggera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. You say that Sharon is
"right to tell them to fuck off."

Can you explain why?
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. If you have a pulse, you already know.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Your posts make mine look like a Tolstoy novel
:)
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cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. well, maybe cause, sometimes, in some ways, france can be...
a shitty little country...
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Yep,and they're not alone in that
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cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. not to mention...

all the shitty big countries...
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. That was my thinking
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. Chirac tells Sharon he is not welcome in France: TV

JERUSALEM (AFP) - French President Jacques Chirac informed Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) he is not welcome in Paris after he urged all French Jews to leave the country immediately, Israeli television reported.


Chirac had written that "after some weeks of contacts concerning such a visit it turns out that it is impossible ... and you are not welcome following your comments," according to Channel 2 television.


An Israeli foreign ministry government spokesman refused to comment on "confidential messages."

~snip~
a tad more: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1511&nc ...

Wish world leaders would say the same to shrub.



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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Chirac is right to tell Sharon to fuck off
:evilgrin:
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cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. and Sharon is right to tell Chirac...
to bite his baguette...

(should Sagle be flattered that you quote him rather than Tolstoy?)...
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. I dont think there is any safe comment for that one
:)
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Flagg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. I disagree with Chirac most of the times because he's a conservative
but you have to admit he's got some balls for a cheese-eating surrender monkey.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. Has the article been spiked?
I'm getting a "document not found" page from Yahoo. Hmm....
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Never mind.
I got it.
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. another reason to like France
and ...Chirac is right to tell Sharon to fuck off :evilgrin:
;) :hi:



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cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. earth to francophiles...
France's prison population is more than 50 percent Muslim...

thud...
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. so fucking what
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 10:45 PM by Djinn
although I'm not agreeing with you on that - I have no idea - do you know the percentage of black men in US prisons? how about the aboriginal population of Australian jails. Guess that means they MUST committ more crimes than good law abiding Christian white folk.

This is a liberal site right?

As for the Jewish community in France, I'm sure some will migrate to Israel just as some Jewish people from others parts of the world will continue to migrate - and many will stay in France more than happily living in a country not subject to an intractable war.
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cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. your interpretation is obtuse...
as if some Archie Bunker redux about minorities committing more crimes than "law abiding Christian white folk", as you put it, was the point, rather, the point is that FRANCE has not been very successful at integrating their Muslim population...
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. what the fuck still holds
How succesful have ANY mainly white Christian nations been at integrating their minorities - in fact I can still use the black population in US and aboriginal population here (tho they were in first in that instance) besides I don't see how a minority being overproportionally represented in prsion demonstrates that at all.

Also if that statistic - which from my short research is wrong - proves that France hasn't integrated their Islamic population then how does that have anything to do with France supposedly being a hotbed of anti-semitism - you'd think if your assumption was correct then the Muslim population would have more to worry about than the Jewish - though maybe that was your point?
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cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. I think we have a trifecta here...
1) potty mouth (again), 2) defensiveness (I doubt that would you would be making this argument if it were say about Israel and it's Arab minority instead of France and it's Muslim minority), and 3) an incoherent and presumptive leap (I made no accusations of hotbeds, nor did I specify any connection between the unsuccessful integration of Muslims and France's antisemitism, although, a connection could be supported)...

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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. OOOHH "potty mouth"
sorry didn't realise I was addressing a kindergarten class, here's an idea p'raps you can tell us exactly why you posted a (erroneous) statistic about the Islamic make-up of French prisons? what relevance did it have to anything.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I think I already know why it was posted
:)
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. that explains all of the "rampant anti-semetism"
:silly:

*whack*
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. earth to francophobes
your slips are showing.
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cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. some French proverbs to suit the occasion...

Le bossu ne voit pas sa bosse, mais il voit celle de son confrre.

Qui bte va Rome, tel en retourne.

Tout est poison. Rien n'est poison. La poison c'est la dose.

Qui aime bien chatie bien.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. I got some proverbs too
Don't approach a goat from the front, a horse from the back or a fool from any side.

We keep an eye on the scorpion and the serpent, but we do not watch out for the millipede.

If we do not change our direction, we are likely to end up where we are headed.

Every sandpiper praises his own swamp.

Too clever is stupid.

An old error is always more popular than a new truth.

A man trying to sell a blind horse always praises its feet.
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cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. that's good...
and so original too...
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. And yours were?
What proverbs have you written?
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