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Egypt ready to take major role in Gaza security after pullout

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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:10 PM
Original message
Egypt ready to take major role in Gaza security after pullout
Egypt is ready for significant involvement in the security arrangements in Gaza and in the Philadelphi corridor between Gaza and Egypt, after an Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, government sources said Monday night after meeting with Egyptian intelligence chief Omar Suleiman.

<snip>

Suleiman met with Sharon, Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz and Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom.

Suleiman asked to hear details about the latest version of the disengagement plan, which Sharon plans to bring to the cabinet next Sunday. Suleiman wanted to know about the planned stages of the withdrawal and settlement evacuations, and if Israel planned to remain in the Philadelphi corridor for very long or only until appropriate security arrangements can be made to prevent smuggling and infiltration by hostile elements.

According to government sources, the Egyptians are ready to send "an active training force" to train Palestinian security forces in Gaza. Suleiman said Egypt was ready to carry out more stringent inspections of the tunnels in Rafah, to monitor the Philadelphi area and to put specially trained soldiers on the job.

more...

An "Active force", eh? That increases the ante significantly for any future IDF orgies in Gaza.

I wonder what the Settlers Hate site has to say about this...

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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Arutz Hate Site: Sharons New Plan Calls for Egyptian Forces in Gaza
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon will meet tomorrow with the head of Egyptian Intelligence, Omar Suleimon. The meeting follows Sharon's announcement last night that he is hoping for Egyptian - as well as European and Jordanian - cooperation as he "unilaterally" withdraws from Jewish Gaza.

Sharon gave more than a hint of this last week when he said in the Knesset that his new plan would require "certain changes" in the Israeli-Egyptian peace agreement that forbids an Egyptian military presence near Israeli areas. In fact, Egyptian forces in Gaza would be only some 40 miles from Tel Aviv.

more..

Gasp! Egyptians!! 40 miles from Tel Aviv!!

Methinks Sharon is flirting with catching a terminal case of high velocity lead poisoning...from one of his own nutcases.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. To Me, Sir
It sounds more like groundwork for a reconstitution of Egyptian occupation of Gaza, only with the government intending to prevent, rather than to foster and assist, attacks into Israel. Not very good news for Hamas, particularly, as Mubarak has little fondness for Moslem Brotherhood types, and has shown a willingness to take extreme measures against them. It will perhaps be possible soon to vary complaints of Israeli oppression and brutality with complaints of Egyptian.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It is an interesting development.
Logical in it's way, for both Israel and Egypt in their
respective circumstances (or Sharon and Mubarak if you prefer),
and yet opening up vistas of the unforseen. It will be most
interesting to see if Egypt decides that - on balance - it is
worth the trouble, and at what price.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. It Would Be, My Friend, Somewhat Less Trouble For Egypt Than For Israel
Some might protest this statement, but it seems evident to me that oppressive brutality against Arab Palestinians excites considerably less denunciation when done by an Arab power than by Israel....
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. In that sense, certainly.
Edited on Wed May-26-04 11:37 AM by bemildred
I rather thought that might be why it appealed to Sharon,
sort of farming the job out to someone more suited to the task.

On the other hand, it is a task that Egypt does not now have,
and in which it will have to invest resources and time, and
which seems likely to be nothing but trouble, and for nebulous
advantages, but perhaps I miss something.

I wonder what your thoughts are as to what Egypt might gain from
this aside from the opportunity to go after the brotherhood?
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. That Is More Difficult, Sir
There might be an increase in U.S. subsidies involved, that could render it a paying proposition.

Tnere is also the pull of old ambition. Egypt has wanted the place for a long time. It was held by Nasser and sought by Farouk before him. One could extend the thing back through time almost indefinitely: much of the tale of Moslem and ancient history in the region is the tale of Egyptian efforts to press north onto the general area, with varying degrees of success and failure.

Nor should going after the Brotherhood be dismissed as a motivation by itself. Gaza in current circumstances must serve as a standing incitement to Brotherhood recruitment, and also as a sort of cross-border sanctuary: it is probably easier for a Brotherhood militant to avoid the Israeli army in Gaza than for him to avoid the Egyptian secret police in Cairo.

It is also possible there is a real desire to damp down the violence, and a conclusion, whether rightly or wrongly, that such measures might tend toward that end. A proper motive cannot, after all, be dismissed as impossible out of hand: humans do the damndest things on occassion....
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. That's about what I could come up with, too.
And there are various counter-arguments, and quite a few
other issues (e.g. border security) to speculate about. A
complicated business in any case. I guess we'll have to
wait and see what they do.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. The Egyptian occupation of Gaza...
I've never seen much written about it, but did it involve the level of brutality that has happened during the Israeli occupation? I dunno, maybe I'm being a bit idealistic here, but even taking into account that the Egyptian offer may have been made out of the motive to actually help, wouldn't a better solution be for an international force to do the job, rather than Egypt which might lose track of its purpose there and find the temptation to grab the Gaza Strip just a bit too much to withstand?

Violet...
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. One suspects that Israel would prefer Egypt to the UN here.
Edited on Wed May-26-04 07:23 PM by bemildred
I expect control of cross-border (Gaza-Israel border) attacks
and what redress Israel might have against them will be a
contentious issue.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. That Is A Fair Question, Ma'am
Edited on Wed May-26-04 07:37 PM by The Magistrate
There was no organized Arab Palestinian resistance against Egypt, so there would not have been any need for measures analogous to Israeli measures during the period of guerrilla activity after the area was over-run in '67. There were political rivals to the Egyptian-sponsored leadership, and these went into police cellars, just as Egyptian opponents of a current regime did. Arab Palestinians were forbidden to work in Egypt, or to depart from the refigee camps, which initially were ghastly tent-city affairs very different from what is seen now. On the other hand, due to U.N. rations and medical care, it can be argued they were better fed and healthier than the poor of Egypt.

It seems likely to me that Israel would prefer Egyptian control to international control, when it came to suppressing cross-border violence from Gaza, in the present day, although the past was something else.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. This is indeed what happened in 1948
The Muslim Brotherhood (ancestor of Hamas), suffered significantly at the hands of the Egyptians, particularly the secularly minded Nasser.

Should prove very interesting indeed should that happen.

Course, the question remains, the Egyptians may not want 1.3 million Palestinians on their hands.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. That Is True, Sir
But Egypt has coveted that patch of ground in the past.

There are old institutional connections between Egypt and Arafat's organizations, which may be susceptible to reactivation today. Egypt could count on a certain loyalty among security personnel its agents trained.
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Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Camp David
I have seen it mentioned that certain clauses in the Camp David Accords will have to be altered to allow Egyptian troops to maintain a presence on the border area. That might be a reasonable explanation that Mubarak refused to undertake the task in the past. Peace with the Palestinians and peace in the area seems to be favorable for Egypt. There are trade agreements with Israel, as well as a significant tourist trade, (Israelis to Egypt). The deal for Israel to by natural gas has already been announced.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Ah, hadn't considered that
Yes, there are those old loyalties.

Sometime I think it would be interesting to draw up a chart of the relationships throughout time of the various groups starting in the 1920's with King Abdullah, Qassam and Husseini.

L-
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. If I were Egypt I would refuse to help Israel unless it gets back
on the roadmap. So far as I know they haven't. The Egyptian risk getting smeared as a servant of the Israeli right if they do this without guarentees.
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