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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:19 PM
Original message
'Arabs for Israel' launch website
Recognizing Israel has little support in the world, Arabs and Muslims who back the Jewish state are developing a new website, ArabsforIsrael.com.

Its developer, Middle East-born author Nonie Darwish, says "now is the right time for Arabs and Muslims who believe in and support Israel to do so."

"Israel has few friends at this point in history and I wish to convey to every Israeli and Jew around the world, that there are Arabs and Muslims, like us, who support them and wish for their well-being," says Dawish, a U.S. citizen.

snip

Palestinians cannot move forward, Arabs for Israel says, because "of their leadership, the Arab League and surrounding Arab and Muslim countries who do not want to see Palestinians live in harmony with Israel."

"If Palestinians want democracy they can start practicing it now," the group says. "We stand firmly against suicide/homicide terrorism as a form of Jihad."

Emphasizing it is not anti-Islam, anti-Arab, confrontational or hateful, the group says, "We cherish and acknowledge the beauty and contributions of the Middle East culture, but recognize that the Arab/Muslim world is in desperate need of constructive self-criticism and reform."

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38631
..........................................................

what a pleasure to read.


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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Seems some are now seeing that the
dance of death needs to stop.

I am glad to read this
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Statement here:
----
We are Arabs who believe
----
We can support the State of Israel and the Jewish religion and still treasure our Arab and Islamic culture.
There are many Jews and Israelis who freely express compassion and support for the Palestinians. It is time that we Arabs express reciprocal compassion and support.
The existence of the State of Israel is a fact that should be accepted by the Arab world.
Israel is a legitimate state that is not a threat but an asset in the Middle East.
Every major World religion has a center of gravity. Islam has Mecca, and Judaism certainly deserves its presence in Israel.
Diversity should not be a virtue only in the USA, but should be encouraged around the world. We support a diverse Middle East with protection for human rights, respect and equality under the law to all minorities including Jews and Christians.
Palestinians have several options but are deprived from exercising them because of their leadership, the Arab League and surrounding Arab and Moslem countries who do not want to see Palestinians live in harmony with Israel.
If Palestinians want democracy they can start practicing it now.
We stand firmly against suicide/homicide terrorism as a form of Jihad.
We are appalled by the horrific act of terror against the USA on 9/11/2001.
Arab media should end the incitement and misinformation that result in Arab street rage and violence.
We are eager to see major reformation in how Islam is taught and channeled to bring out the best in Moslems and contribute to the uplifting of the human spirit and advancement of civilization.
We believe in freedom to choose or change ones Religion.
We cherish and acknowledge the beauty and contributions of the Middle East culture, but recognize that the Arab/Moslem world is in desperate need of constructive self-criticism and reform.
----
We are NOT:
Anti-Islam, Anti-Arab, confrontational or hateful.
----
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. John.....
I've read about this group before and apparently their
numbers are growing everyday. They are true progressives
who believe in diversity,democracy and anti-fundamentalism.

They deserve everyones support.
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
122. This is very encouraging...
:kick:
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yeah, what's anti-Islamic about this gem I found from Nonie?
"From a former Moslem, these people are in the US to Islamize America and have a scary agenda. They audaciously buy churches and convert them into mosques!"

"In the show, you stressed how the West should understand Islam. Why is America responsible for understanding every little and big culture and religion around the World, failing which we are branded bigots and racists?"

"Instead, the most vocal Islamic groups in the West are taking a confrontational stance, complaining of discriminatory treatment, taking their cue from liberal civil-rights groups.

The liberal media is only too eager to egg them on."

http://www.noniedarwish.com/pages/745438/index.htm

The woman's a nasty bigot and a conservative nob-head. My thanks to drdon for inspiring me to go searching for anything she'd said the slighest bit critical of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, so the 'Good Ayrab!!!' routine could switch swiftly to a 'Baaad Ayrab!!!' tack. There was not one word to be found, just virulently anti-Muslim tirades from her on various bizarre message boards round the net...

Violet...

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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. There's nothing anti-Arab on ArabsforIsrael.com.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. There's a link on the site that leads to the woman's site!
The woman who's responsible for creating 'arabsforisrael'. Click on that link. It takes you to the articles she wrote...

Do you or do you not think that stuff is anti-Muslim? Easy question that deserves an answer....

Violet...
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. A very easy answer...
but don't hold your breath waiting for it.

If this isn't the bottom of the barrel, it's awfully close...

Oh well, desperate tactics for desperate people.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. In An Impish Spirit, Ma'am
Edited on Wed May-26-04 12:49 PM by The Magistrate
Some of the statements in your No. 5 above are not so outrageous, at least if stripped of their atmospherics.

In my ordinary perambulations about the city, several mosques have been encountered. Two are in former churches; one is in a former dance-club of ill repute. There does not seem to me anything particularly audacious about setting up a mosque in an old and disused church; the facility is designed for the purpose of communal worship, and the denomination formerly operating it must have sold the thing, or leased it, voluntarily.

It does not seem to me that the intellectuals and populace of the Islamic world understand the West much better than the West understands them. Charges of bigotted ignorance could as easily be flung in either direction. Certainly the actions of each towards the other are often counter-productive, due to the ignaorance and lack of understanding on which they are based. These are, after all, general human failings: most consider their ways best, and the rest inferior and wrong in some degree.

Spokespeople for the C.A.I.R. organization have not much impressed me, when seen or read. They have a perfect right to be confrontational, of course, but seem at times to engage in apologias for some the most offensive excesses of Islamic culture, particularly in gender relations, and they are not likely to make much headway here doing so. There certainly is a quotient of bigotry here against Islam, that has incrased recently, and that ought to be fought, but there are also legitimate grounds of disagreement with some Islamic cultural practice, that also can be rightfully expressed.

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. A pretty large quotient?
Of course there are legitimate grounds of disagreement with some Islamic cultural practices, and I've read some of them and agree with them, especially when it comes to women. But this bigoted creatures rantings are in no way close to those legitimate critiques....

If an anti-Semite were to make similar comments saying that 'Jews are in the US to Judaise America and have a scary agenda. They audaciously buy churches and convert them into synagogues!', even stripped of the atmospherics in the article it'd be in, and ignoring that a bigot had written it, it still comes across as just as outrageous as being said about Muslims...

I think it's important for everyone to have an understanding of other cultures. But when it comes to the US, there's something so nincompoopish about invading Iraq with little to no knowledge of the people they're invading...

Violet...
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Understatement Is My Sport, Ma'am
Edited on Wed May-26-04 08:23 PM by The Magistrate
And on the roster of native prejudices here, it does rank fairly low and recent. Growing up in the midwest exposed me to derogatory terms for easily a dozen peoples and faiths before my first encounter with anything directed at Arabs and Islam. The fact of the matter is, we do not really like much of anyone but ourselves over here, and are seldom too sure about the guy in the next house over....

My point was that there is a certain degree of accurate reportage in some of the statements. Without any attempt at seeking the information out, my experience of the city has shown me several churches made into mosques, un-important as that fact really is. My path has never crossed a church made over into a synagogue, though derelict synagogues are common enough in some neighborhoods, and there might be one or two instances in suburban areas to which Jews have migrated in recent decades, but which are outside my usual rounds. So the mirror statement you suggest would simply be untrue, at least to my knowledge.

The question of bigotry in this person is somewhat more vexed. She is certainly "a conservative nob-head," as you put it, and she certainly does not like Islam, but as she was raised to Islam, and came to reject it, it is unclear to me that her distaste, deep as it is, can properly be described as bigotry. If someone born in Australia, for instance, found the place and its ways so distasteful by her adulthood that she felt driven to emmigrate and become, say, a Chilean citizen, and spent her time praising Hispanic culture and denouncing the land Down Under in depth and detail, would it really be proper to speak of her as bigotted against Australians? The word does not quite seem to fit, somehow...
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Not always, I've noticed...
I mean, yr reaction to the slightest whiff of suspected anti-Semitism has definately not been understated. As the rise of anti-Arab hostility in the US appears to have grown very serious since Sept 11, I really can't see how it could rank low, or how recent it is really has anything to do with the seriousness of it....

No, there was nothing accurate in those statements, not unless you believe that Muslims in the US are actually out to Islamicise the US and they have a scary agenda, which I know you don't believe. Making sweeping generalisations about any group of people is a core part of bigotry...

There's no argument in my mind that this woman is a bigot. She makes sweeping statements about a specific group of people, only tempering it at times to proclaim that 'some' may not be like that. It doesn't matter one iota what she used to be. I used to be a Christian. That doesn't give me the right to run round expressing my hatred of Christians. Same goes for yr example about Australia. Bagging the place or the government is not bigoted, but when it turns into sweeping generalisations about the people, then that's a different matter. Along the same lines, as much as I despise the US government, my dislike doesn't extend to the US people...

Violet...
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Some Small Points, Ma'am
We may be somewhat at cross purposes over differences in perceived definitions. To my view of it, the concept of bigotry includes connotations of unreason and ignorance shaping the view held. It seems to me to be perfectly possible to come to a reasoned judgement that a thing with which one is familiar, and about which one is knowledgeable, is hateful. The expression of such a view may well be unpleasant and hurtful, but it is not bigotry. The core allegations of Anti-Semitism are simply false, and are never and can never be the result of reasoned judgement concerning a thing about which a person is well informed. Similarly, the allegations at the core of any belief in any system of racial superiority and complementary racial inferiority are simply false, and are never and can never be the result of reasoned judgement concerning a thing about which a person is well informed. People's views about a culture and creed in which they were raised and lived the great part of their lives can be based on reasoned judgement concerning a thing they must know intimately, and if that judgement is that that culture and creed is hateful, it cannot properly be assailed in terms that connote unreasoning ignorance.

This person clearly conceives herself to be, on the basis of her own life's experience, an enemy of Islam, viewing the creed and the culture it sustains as a hateful thing. She propagandizes against it virulently, and in doing so, employs all the normal armory of that low trade. That is never a pleasant spectacle. But she is an informed commentator in the matter, and as worth paying some attention to in that regard as, say, a defector from Stalin's Russia speaking on Soviet life in the thirties, or an embittered former nun discussing the Catholic Church. There is generally something to such critiques, and certainly no culture or creed can be held immune from criticism, even from virulent criticism.

Certainly, for example, Moslems in the U.S. are not out, en masse, to Islamicize the country, and even if they were, it would be so futile a project as to properly excite more derision by the attempt than fear. But there certainly are a few who imagine that, just as there are Evangelicals who dream they will Christianize China, a similarly delusional project. Both Islam and Christianity are prosetylizing creeds, after all, and any believer who goes the whole hog in the matter must strive towards bringing all to the way proclaimed as Right and True by the diety involved. The real saving grace in such matters is that few people take their religion anywhere near as seriously as their creeds enjoin them to do: the world would be intolerable if it were otherwise.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #42
51. Why do you think she's an informed commentator?
I'm sorry, but there's nothing of an informed nature in claiming that US Muslims are out to Islamicise the country and have a scary agenda. It's bigotry. It doesn't matter what she was, what she is now, or what she might become in the future. Claiming she's an informed commentator is ridiculous. Informed commentators are those people I mentioned in an earlier post, who actually make legitimate criticisms of Islam (btw, most of the ones I read were Muslim writers) without the associated bigotry...oops, I mean 'virulent criticism'...

Violet...
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. For The Same Reason, Ma'am
That you strike me as an informed commentator on Australian society. It would be foolish to claim you know nothing about it, and that your comments concerning it, whether critical or otherwise, should be dismissed as either jingoism or bigotry.

The person is a propagandist, and that is hardly praise from me: such are among my least favorite people....
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. If I may
But this bigoted creatures rantings are in no way close to those legitimate critiques....

She strikes me as being quite similar to an anti-smoker talking about smoking or a member of AA talking about drinking. Not bigoted in the traditional sense, but tending to be more sensitive and fixated on the problems it caused them.

While I don't smoke (never have) and am very happy with my friends who do decide to stop, I've got a couple who I am forced to change the story quickly with because of their fixation on why they stopped smoking. Her language is very, very similar to theirs.

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. But there's a big difference...
Ex-smokers or drinkers aren't railing against an entire group of people the way this woman was. That's what makes her a bigot and ex-smokers who become anti-smoking zealots just really annoying people to hang around, especially for me, who was an ex-smoker for over two years and never got the urge to lecture others over the evil of smoking. But maybe I knew I was going to start puffing again before too long :)

Violet...
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. I dunno
I've friends who stopped smoking who rail against anyone with a cigarette or anyone who smokes. Several are even driven to be VERY outspoken about anti-smoking laws and have turned in stores for selling to minors. They are even to the point of being hyper-sensitive to the smell and critical of those who spend time with smokers.

They were my friends before they stopped smoking, and while I'm extremely happy they stopped, I do wish they would tone down this new "quirk".

L-







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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. I know someone like that...
My mother, pain in the arse that she is. An ex-smoker, she wrinkles up her nose and complains my clothes smell of smoke even when I haven't been smoking, insists on calling me a 'stupid girl' for taking up smoking again with the health problems I've got (while I don't like being called a stupid girl, she's got a point there), and when I go to visit will send my kidlet into my bag to get any smokes in there for her so she can destroy them...

So what I think is that this woman's history as a Muslim converted to Christianity obviously drives her hatred, along with a big ol' dose of being a conservative twit (somehow I doubt she was a converted liberal), all it does is explain, not excuse, her bigotry...

Ooh, a thought just occured to me and I should post it in my last reply to the Magistrate, but I'm lazy and I'll whack it here. It's about people who are ex-something, like Islam, or Christianity, and that their intimate knowledge of the creed or culture they lived gives their words some credence. What about people who used to be left-wing but change their views and become conservatives or neo-conservatives? It also applies to people I've seen online who used to be pro-choice but switch to being anti-choice. Can't say any of the ones in that category I've encountered have been particularly convincing when telling their story about how pro-choicers think. And of course another one where a creed changes is one relevant to this forum, where some people start off with unwavering support of Israel or Palestine and go on to change their views....

Violet...
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. A Fair Question, Ma'am
In your studies, you will certainly have become familiar with the process of assessing and sifting sources, because there will often be tares among the grain, or grain among the tares, and few accounts of anything are reliable in all their partriculars, but rather useful on some points and useless, or even pernicious, on others.

To take a notorious example, the reptile Horowitz. While any number of persons on the left may not like to admit it, his description of the Black Panther Party in the time when he was associated with it is pretty close to reality. That was an unsavory crew, and this was, in fact, reasonably evident to many on the left even at the time he chose to associate himself with it. He exaggerates his naivity at the time to exculpate himself, and exaggerates his shock at finally realizing what was already obvious to many, but his description of the thing itself is useful, and if one were to write a history of the phenomenon, his account would have some value as a corrective to some hagiographic materials in circulation in those days.

In his comments on the left today, long after he has ceased to associate with it, he is of little use, and is purely a propagandist. However, he does know the thing he is propagandizing about. He does know well the sort of thing radicals might say in private around a kitchen table, and he will have had personnal experience of a great deal of radical hyperbole in expression, and hypocrisy in radical action, that serves him well in rooting his propagandas. He distorts these in the usual manner of propagandists, by presenting these things as the norm, and contrasting them with an ideal view of the positions to which he now cleaves, although he knows full well that his new friends indulge in precisely the same sort of hyperbole and hypocrisy, just in a different register.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. The PA recognizes Isreal. It is also a democratically elected.
. This looks like another Pipes front group. I wonder how much funding they are getting from AIPAC types.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. From their website....
www.arabsforisrael.com

We are Arabs who believe

*We can support the State of Israel and the Jewish religion and still treasure our Arab and Islamic culture.

*There are many Jews and Israelis who freely express compassion and support for the Palestinians. It is time that we Arabs express reciprocal compassion and support.

*The existence of the State of Israel is a fact that should be accepted by the Arab world.

*Israel is a legitimate state that is not a threat but an asset in the Middle East.

*Every major World religion has a center of gravity. Islam has Mecca, and Judaism certainly deserves its presence in Israel.

*Diversity should not be a virtue only in the USA, but should be encouraged around the world. We support a diverse Middle East with protection for human rights, respect and equality under the law to all minorities including Jews and Christians.

*Palestinians have several options but are deprived from exercising them because of their leadership, the Arab League and surrounding Arab and Moslem countries who do not want to see Palestinians live in harmony with Israel.

*If Palestinians want democracy they can start practicing it now.

*We stand firmly against suicide/homicide terrorism as a form of Jihad.

*We are appalled by the horrific act of terror against the USA on 9/11/2001.

*Arab media should end the incitement and misinformation that result in Arab street rage and violence.

*We are eager to see major reformation in how Islam is taught and channeled to bring out the best in Moslems and contribute to the uplifting of the human spirit and advancement of civilization.

*We believe in freedom to choose or change ones Religion.

*We cherish and acknowledge the beauty and contributions of the Middle East culture, but recognize that the Arab/Moslem world is in desperate need of constructive self-criticism and reform.
===================================================================

These are great people.
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. an awesome website ... that tells it like it is!!!
It's progressive folks like this who give hope to peace in the middle east.

Thank you for posting that.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. There's nothing progressive about Nonie Darwesh...
Or don't you find anything slightly intolerant in the article of hers that was posted in this thread?

Violet...
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. My favorite part....besides the entire statement...
If Palestinians want democracy they can start practicing it now.


Excellent.


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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. How does that work?
How do a people living under a brutal military occupation get to practice democracy?


btw, got anything to say about the anti-Islam bigotry of Nonie Darwesh? Or is that stuff okay?

Violet...
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Cusp Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. didn't seem bigoted to me....
She's seen Islam in a way none of us ever will. Is she not entitled to her opinions? She did not come off as bigoted. I don't know if someone can be a bigot against their own culture/race. It's called insight or perspective, something you seem to have lost touch with.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Are you joking??
Read the comments from her that I posted, and insert the words Jews and Synagogue instead of Muslim and mosque. Then come and tell me that it's not bigoted. Sorry if you think that virulent bigotry like hers should be allowed because it's just her being entitled to her opinions. There's nothing insightful about any of that poison....

Violet...
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Take it easy...
This is somewhat revealing... ;)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
67. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #67
76. Where the heck did she ever target the orthodox?
?
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
32. Uncle Tom was entitled to his as well
She is spreading several myths, such the idea that the PA does't recognize Israel and the idea that they are not elected.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-04 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #32
119. Niiiiiice implication she's an Uncle Tom.....
The racial and cultural overtones of that statement are breath-taking.


Talk about myths.... Once, in some begrudging letter, the weasel recognizes israel...which seems to pale to all his others actions.


Oh, arafat was elected in 1996 by some "Chicago-style" election.
And let us forget that fearing a legitimate vote canceled elections
of HIS office since than. Makes life easy doesn't it.

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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. She has an ardent defense of Danny Pipes...
This is rich...

The Council of American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) is attacking Daniel Pipes for his latest article in which he called for pragmatism in dealing with Muslims and mosques. They accused him of inciting anti-Moslem sentiment. I disagree with CAIR.

<hilarious snip>

When I saw Pipes on T.V. for the first time I initially thought he was a Middle Eastern Moslem from Iran. I said to myself: "Now that is a Moslem who makes sense and he is not ashamed to speak his mind after 9/11."

<side splitting snip>

CAIR is not doing Arab Americans a favor by being confrontational and not looking for the larger American interests first. On their website they are having a voter registration drive among Moslem Americans in which they say: "In tight elections, every vote counts. If Muslims vote in a block, their numbers may be enough to tip the balance in favor of the candidates they support."

<organizing is good, unless you are moslem...LOL, snip>

After all, terrorists were doing their deeds in the name of Allah and Mohammed and please dont tell me these are just a bunch of lunatics who have nothing to do with Islam.

more from this idiot...

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. I was just reading that one...
How dare CAIR be confrontational by being opposed to discrimination against Arabs and Muslims? Don't these people realise they're in Amerika now and they've got to diversify by embracing the great Christian values of the USofA?

Yuck, her stuff is so foul that it's funny. Now I'm understanding why some find her a great person! ;)

Violet...
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Thats some "ardent" defense. lol
"They accused him of inciting anti-Moslem sentiment. I disagree with CAIR."


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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Did you read the rest of newyorican's quoted statements?
Do you, as apparentally she does, agree that fundamentalist violent extremism is something specific to Islam?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. They were "a pleasure to read"
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
33. She is another Chalabi type
. Another neocon front Arab.
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LeftistGorilla Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
54. Yeah...
That was the funniest...
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm sensing a trend here...
Edited on Tue May-25-04 10:09 PM by newyorican
Madonna Threatened!! (Well, not really...)
Terrorist Ambulances!! (Ummm...Yeah right...)
Arabs for Israel!! (Oh really??)

This is called the "Look over there" gambit, employed by those desperate not to be seen as blood thirsty, vengeful goons.

On Edit: I forgot one - Well, there used to be tunnels!! Lots and Lots of them...really...would I lie... (Forum Guidelines prevent the obvious answer)
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Keep tossing the shit guys...
it's entertaining, besides, you're bound to stumble across something that sticks sooner or later...
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. LOL ....this group meet in a phone booth ...
be kinda like Liberals for Bush :silly:
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Another group that can meet in a phone booth...
Edited on Tue May-25-04 10:45 PM by Scurrilous
...progressives that read WorldNetDaily.


Great headlines:

WorldNetDaily Exclusive
Catholics don't like Kerry
Poll shows him at odds with church on major issues
--WND


WND.COMMENTARY
My un-American Democratic Party
Exclusive: Bob Just predicts PC liberals will betray U.S. and Israel
--WND

WHISTLEBLOWER MAGAZINE
WorldNetDaily Exclusive
THE PARTY OF TREASON
Today's Democrats: Stealing elections, corrupting morals, aiding enemies
--WND
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Brought to you by...
those who want to "wait to get the facts" before condemning the IDF for the Rafah excursion...

I guess we're still waiting...

In the meantime, cue the circus music...
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
26. Cool! Another PR Hoax written by a Daniel Pipes/Bush supporter
Edited on Wed May-26-04 10:51 AM by Tinoire
Nonie Darwish is nothing but that. How surprising to find this at DU of all places! I've been expecting this hero from Little Green Footballs to be brought up any moment now; it's so good not to be disappointed :) http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=5510


This is nothing but a PR hoax. Nonie Darwish is, surprise, from this same swill: http://groups.msn.com/Backlash2004/links.msnw?action=vi...

Nonie Darwish:

speaker of the Carnegie Mellon University circuit where she is sponsored by the Young Zionists of America. Carnegie Mellon Institute?! Richard Mellon Scaife? Another "gem" DrDon!

big time supporter of that racist hate-mongerer Daniel Pipes to the point of writing Bush a "Thank you letter" to thank him for nominating Daniel Pipes to the US Institute of Peace.

big time fan of Bush who berates Democrats for not being loyal to
Bush

the alleged daughter of a "father, who was not a Palestinian, was a very prominent military officer in the Middle East, I will not mention the country for personal reasons" (yeah, right :eyes: ). In a speech posted on another Bush Victory site she identifies hereself as Egyptian.

an idiot who fires off letters to PBS for not bowing to the Bush/Sharon PR line www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5229


http://www.meetnet.org./Education.htm#Nonie

Nonie Darwish was born and raised as a Moslem in both Gaza and Cairo Egypt. She has a Bachelors Degree in Sociology/ Anthropology from the American University in Cairo. She worked as an editor and translator at the Middle East News Agency and attended several local and International conferences. She is now a freelance writer, a public speaker and an interpreter. Her articles were published by worldnetdaily.com, frontpagemag.com, Pakistan Today and other International media outlets. She has been speaking on Middle East affairs at several college campuses, Hadassah, ORD, Amit groups, several womens political and social groups, several Jewish temples, Young Zionists of America and Chabat. She is on the speakers bureau of StandWithUs a board member of Middle East Education Team and the American Congress for Truth.

http://www.united4freedom.org/speakers.asp


=================

The danger from Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction is real. What is also real is an angry and hostile Moslem/Arab population whose media says that America and Israel are the cause of all their problems; it is a perfect lie to divert the attention of a vulnerable population from the corruption and atrocities of dictatorships. Arabs and their media have more sympathy towards Saddam Hussein and Iraq and more hostility and envy of the tiny victim country of Kuwait! Not surprising for a culture that only respects power.

It is sad to see the antiwar activists undermining President Bush and wishing him to fail when that can only mean harming the U.S. as a whole. They think the Democrats will come along and save the day afterwards, but a Bush failure will only compound the trouble inflicted by 9/11.

President Clinton closed his eyes to the terrorist attacks. He weakened our intelligence and ignored the cancer of terrorism. That may have gone unreported in our liberal media, but it did not go unnoticed in the Middle East. President Clinton missed many opportunities to have the great legacy he so desperately wanted. Instead of choosing to face the threat early on, he chose to bomb an aspirin factory. He only tried to give the impression that he was doing something by creating an image of a response to terrorism. In return, he was never criticized in the mainstream media or by the peace lovers, unlike the current president. He thought he could fool the Moslem extremists, but they sensed and were emboldened by his weakness. Later, they were further emboldened by reports that the younger Bush is an "idiot." ( :puke:)

The sight of the twin towers and pentagon in flames should unify America against Middle East terror. Make no mistake, the so-called peace lovers are aiding and abetting the enemy. From a U.S. citizen of Arab origin, to the nave American peace at any expense lovers, I say, Wake up! The world is watching us and size="size" we have to unite behind size="4" our President in a war we cannot ignore.

<snip>

/www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6337

To Nonie Darwish, I must ask "Who is "our" ? We're definitely not on the same team!
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Thanks for the research...looks like she is a highly capable ...
and qualified young woman!
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. sad
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. And Daniel Pipes is a "renowned scholar....
..that we just disagree with" right?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. How surprising that you find a Bush supporter "highly capable"
big time supporter of that racist hate-mongerer Daniel Pipes to the point of writing Bush a "Thank you letter" to thank him for nominating Daniel Pipes to the US Institute of Peace.

big time fan of Bush who berates Democrats for not being loyal to
Bush



<sarcasm> I'm shocked! Shocked to find someone in I/P considering Bush supporter who goes after Democrats, Liberals & Progressives as "highly capable"! </sarcasm>
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. Now that post was worth the price of admission!
Highly capable and qualified young woman, my arse! It kind of helps to read what she said before heaping effusive praise on her. Apart from her obvious bigotry, she seems to have a major problem with the left. But weren't you calling her a progressive? Weird...


Hey, this'd make a great sig line!

"Make no mistake, the so-called peace lovers are aiding and abetting the enemy. From a U.S. citizen of Arab origin, to the nave American peace at any expense lovers, I say, Wake up! The world is watching us and we have to unite behind our President in a war we cannot ignore."

Thanks for the hilarious post...

Violet...
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. A Telling Comment, My Friend
As the cost of admission is nothing....
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #38
49. reminder: The cost of admission to every post on DU is exactly nothing....
Edited on Thu May-27-04 09:28 AM by meti57b
... including your own.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. No exactly true...
Some posts exact a heavy price, like the ones lauding conservative bigots tend to make me want to heave all over my keyboard on reading them :)

Violet...
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Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #28
43. Yes
and too bad some people here who talk about "Peace" all the time, can't relate positively to someone who has made it her career.
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #43
62. What, by supporting the war on Iraq? n/t
Edited on Sat May-29-04 11:00 AM by Vladimir
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #28
44. Yes......
Notice how not one post of ANY of the 14 points in "We are Arabs who believe" are disputed.......no, rather than address those points which no rational person could disagree with, just attack the author.

If you dont like the message , kill the messenger.

She seems to have a unique insight into the ME.

"I remember going to a Palestinian preschool and kindergarten and the word "Jew" instilled terror and dread into the core of my very being. A Jewish person was portrayed like less than human, a dog, an evil alien from outer space who was about to destroy the world. Jews, they said, had no home because they were cursed by God and the main mission of Islam was to get rid of Jews. As a small child I remember once, at a Palestinian school, asking "why?" The response was that I was a traitor for asking this question and would go to hell, and for the rest of the day the girls in the school did not talk to me. The education was mainly political, teaching kids the hatred of Israel. Arabic poetry was recited daily, with tears in Palestinian children's eyes, on how Palestine was taken from them and how they will retaliate and even die to get it back."

http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2003/01/27905_comme...


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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. You must have missed this one then...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Going to try answering it? Because I actually thought that point about democracy was a totally ridiculous one to make...

As for 'shooting the messenger'. When that conservadroid bigot creates a website claiming she wants peace doesn't indulge in anti-Arab sentiment and puts a link to her own site which clearly shows she does, while you might not like attention being brought to what she really is, I would hope most people wouldn't want to have any association with anyone who spews bigoted sentiments and attacks left-wingers as traitors....

Also, Edward Said was an Arab who agreed with some of the points she made on the Arabs For Israel website. But because he criticised Israel's actions in the Occupied Territories and wasn't a right-wing numbnut, some idiots ignore what he had to say and portray him as some sort of terrorist supporter. So where's all yr effusive praise for him?


Violet...
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Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #44
75. They could teach this
Why couldn't they teach democratic principles to the children so that when they had a Palestinian state, they would be able to run a democracy? Seems to be far from their priorities.

Oh yes, the lessons I've learned here. victims can't be liberals and bigots can't be victims.

What do you think, Dr, am I getting it now?
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Aussie_Hillbilly Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #75
136. Sure!
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 04:25 AM by Aussie_Hillbilly
Why couldn't they teach democratic principles to the children so that when they had a Palestinian state, they would be able to run a democracy?

They are never likely to have a Palestinian state.

Perhaps they should teach their children floating skills, in case they learn to levitate.


Anyway, they do teach their children about democracy.

The Palestinian Initiative for the Promotion of Global Dialogue and Democracy, MIFTAH, is a non-governmental non-partisan Jerusalem-based institution dedicated to fostering democracy and good governance within the Palestinian Society in a manner that promotes Public Accountability and Transparency while maintaining the free flow of information and ideas. Established in December 1998, MIFTAH's underlying premise is to serve as a Palestinian platform for international reconciliation and cooperation allowing for a global dialogue that is guided by the principles of democracy, human rights, gender equity, and participatory governance.

http://www.miftah.org/
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #26
46. Note: I/P violation
I'm letting this stand, but inline pictures related to the I/P are NOT allowed per I/P guidelines. Future inclusions will be deleted.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground
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Fight_n_back Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
73. Good research
thank you.

Perhaps now you will attempt the same smell test on those who agree with you.
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minkyboodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
110. thanks tinoire
very informative
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #26
130. Well, she got one thing right....
Edited on Sun Jun-13-04 04:22 AM by 0rganism
"a Bush failure will only compound the trouble inflicted by 9/11."

Too bad she sees the people who were trying to lobby the idiot-son-of-an-asshole not to invade Iraq as "aiding and abetting the enemy."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #27
57. Interesting Forkboy....
Edited on Sat May-29-04 07:50 AM by drdon326


Funny, I must have missed your outrage when people were
backing the words of wisdom of that great thinker by the name of
Pat Buchanan or that other great statesman Lyndon LaRouche.
I will watch for it next time.

While I disgree with her political leanings, her unique insights
and personal history are formidable.

Now, of her 14 points, which SPECIFIC ones bother you the most?

I will repost her points so you dont have to scroll.

.............................................................

We are Arabs who believe

*We can support the State of Israel and the Jewish religion and still treasure our Arab and Islamic culture.

*There are many Jews and Israelis who freely express compassion and support for the Palestinians. It is time that we Arabs express reciprocal compassion and support.

*The existence of the State of Israel is a fact that should be accepted by the Arab world.

*Israel is a legitimate state that is not a threat but an asset in the Middle East.

*Every major World religion has a center of gravity. Islam has Mecca, and Judaism certainly deserves its presence in Israel.

*Diversity should not be a virtue only in the USA, but should be encouraged around the world. We support a diverse Middle East with protection for human rights, respect and equality under the law to all minorities including Jews and Christians.

*Palestinians have several options but are deprived from exercising them because of their leadership, the Arab League and surrounding Arab and Moslem countries who do not want to see Palestinians live in harmony with Israel.

*If Palestinians want democracy they can start practicing it now.

*We stand firmly against suicide/homicide terrorism as a form of Jihad.

*We are appalled by the horrific act of terror against the USA on 9/11/2001.

*Arab media should end the incitement and misinformation that result in Arab street rage and violence.

*We are eager to see major reformation in how Islam is taught and channeled to bring out the best in Moslems and contribute to the uplifting of the human spirit and advancement of civilization.

*We believe in freedom to choose or change ones Religion.

*We cherish and acknowledge the beauty and contributions of the Middle East culture, but recognize that the Arab/Moslem world is in desperate need of constructive self-criticism and reform.
.....................................................................

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. I've already asked you about one of the points...
Scroll to post #47. That was the second time I asked you the question. Thank goodness I'm patient and don't mind asking a third time. How are the Palestinians supposed to exercise democracy when they live under a belligerant occupation? I would have thought that ground's always a bit too rocky for democracy to flourish, but obviously you and this woman you so admire believe differently. So, any reason why you think that way?

Violet...
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. One Possible Example, Ma'am
Is the "shadow state" of Kossovo Albanians led by Mr. Rugova during the late Yugoslav disintigration, operating under what could be reasonably described as a brutal Serbian occupation. This managed to hold elections and collect taxes under such difficult conditions.
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. According to which sources exactly
Edited on Sat May-29-04 02:44 PM by Vladimir
were they existing under a brutal Serbian occupation? While there is no doubt that the whole of Yugoslavia was living under a corrupt and at times violent government, there is no reasonable comparison to be made, IMO, between Kosovo and the occupied territories.

PS nevermind the fact that the very use of the word occupation in this context is dubious - since its not like Serbs settled in Kosovo displacing the indigenous population.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. It Was, Sir, At The Time
Edited on Sat May-29-04 02:47 PM by The Magistrate
Milder than the Arab Palestinians live under today, though not too different from conditions that obtained six or eight years ago in the lands Israel overran in '67. One of the leading differences, of course, is that there was not much in the way of armed opposition by Kossovo Albanians at the time, the K.L.A. being a very small group, and one that Mr. Rugova and many others then believed (falsely) to be a creation of the Serbian security services, to justify more represive measures by those organs. It is past argument that Kossovo Albabians lived at the time under a brutal police regime that enforced among other things discrimination in public employment, and theft of land, in the interests of "Serbianizing" the place.
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. Six or eight years ago
Edited on Sat May-29-04 02:59 PM by Vladimir
the PA held democratic elections (as democratic as any selection procedure Rugova ever participated in) too, and Araft was being hailed by nearly everyone as a 'man of peace'. The comparison however, for better or worse, is with the here and now.

The reason Rugova was able to pursue a policy of peaceful resistance for so long is precisely because conditions were nowhere near bad enough (and had not gone on for long enough, which is a vital factor contributing to the hopelessness many Palestinians feel towards a peaceful resolution of the conflict) for a widescale armed movement to rise up in the country.

Please also see the edit to my previous post.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. There Is Something To What You Say, Sir
That the circumstances are not a precise fit was why Mr. Rugova's achievement was described as a possible example only. There are some similarities, though, and even your own comments above suggest that a democratic order might have been maintained by the Arab Palestinian polity.

One of the key distinguishing points, to my view, remains the resolve towards non-violence exercised by Mr. Rugova and his followers. The character of Israeli occupation has certainly been condition by the operations of various armed Arab Palestinian bands during its course, and might have been different had such groups not been active. We shall never know, of course, since they were, and their operations in fact long preceeded that occupation.

It seems that we take different views of the history of Kossovo, perhaps even to the extent, judging by your edit above, of who the original inhabitants of the place are. Time will not permit me today to go into that in any great detail, particularly as it is somewhat to one side of the main discussion here. Perhaps, Sir, another time we may engage on it....
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Fair enough n/t
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Fight_n_back Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #58
71. Another example
the United States of America.
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. On the point of diversity
she gives the game away by upholding the US as her model of a society which sees diversity as a virtue. Given the treatment of Muslims in the US since 9/11, this cannot stand.

A lot of her points would be valid if they existed in a vacuum. Unfortunately, within the context of the Middle East, they are horribly naive at best. For example, take her point about the media. You cannot honestly ask the 'Arab' media to stop incitement and misinformation while ignoring the one-sided and unbalanced reporting of the international media in this respect. Al-Jazeera's agenda is, IMO, a perfectly welcome counterwight to the CNN/FOX/SKY News agenda. And besides, rocket attacks on crowds outside mosques probably serve as a better incitement for Palestinians than any news report could...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #61
63. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. I'm totally honest....
I agree with you....I agree with Nonie Darwish's 14 points
also.

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. Now why dont you answer VC's question?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-04 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #64
120. After the question being ignored so many times...
I think I can safely hazard a guess that it's easy enough to agree with something, but much more difficult to say why...

Violet...
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
77. "...Israel has little support in the world.."
Maybe they should try to figure out why.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
78. Nonie RAWWWWWWWWWKSSSSSSSS!!!!!!
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Chalabi rawked too among the same circles
Did he help them any?
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. No, but he helped Iran
Edited on Sat May-29-04 07:20 PM by Vladimir
</sarcasm>
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. He never RAWWWWWWWWWKed with me.
Besides, he's a dead ringer for L. Ron Hubbard.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. This women has the same history and credibility as Chalabi
Edited on Sat May-29-04 09:07 PM by Classical_Liberal
Why did the neocons put such enormous faith in Ahmed Chalabi, an exile with a shady past and no standing with Iraqis? One word: Israel. They saw the invasion of Iraq as the precondition for a reorganization of the Middle East that would solve Israel's strategic problems, without the need for an accommodation with either the Palestinians or the existing Arab states. Chalabi assured them that the Iraqi democracy he would build would develop diplomatic and trade ties with Israel, and eschew Arab nationalism.

Now some influential allies believe those assurances were part of an elaborate con, and that Chalabi has betrayed his promises on Israel while cozying up to Iranian Shia leaders. Whether because of intentional deception or a realistic calculation of what the Iraqi people will accept, it's clear that Chalabi won't be delivering on his bright promises to ally a democratic Iraq with Israel. Had the neocons not been deluded by gross ignorance of the Arab world and blinded by wishful thinking, they would have realized that the chances that Chalabi or any other Iraqi leader could deliver on such promises were always remote. In fact, they need have looked no further than the Israeli media: A long piece in Israel's Jerusalem Report magazine published nine days before the war began last year featured Israelis who dismissed Chalabi's promises about Israel as a political ploy, "a means by which to appeal to the Jewish lobby and, in turn, the administration."


"Chalabi has no use for Israel. He knew all along that this was a nonstarter," says Robert Baer, a former CIA field officer who led covert U.S. operations inside Iraq in the mid-1990s aimed at toppling Saddam. "Chalabi knows exactly what Israel stands for in Iraq and in Iran, with or without Saddam. The idea of building the pipeline to Haifa, or rapprochement with Iran ... I'm sure he told these things could happen, that he played to their prejudices and said, 'This is the new Middle East,' but he didn't believe any of it. That's the way Chalabi operates........"

The CIA's relationship with Chalabi came to an end after a failed offensive in March 1995 against Saddam's forces by the small group of INC exiles and the militia of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. The CIA had withdrawn the support it had initially offered for the offensive, in what looks like a classic conflict between field officers and desk officers. Chalabi left northern Iraq the next month, and the CIA cut off its funding for the INC. It was at this time that Chalabi turned his attention to the American neoconservatives. The neocons were deeply disturbed by the Israeli government's "land for peace" negotiations with the Palestinians. The usefulness of the West Bank for "defense in depth" was less important than it would have been from the '40s to the '70s, given the increase in Israel's relative technological and military advantage over the Arabs. However, the idea of giving up what Israel's right-wing Likud leaders and some of the neocons themselves believed to be Israel's God-given lands on the West Bank of the Jordan River was anathema to them. The solution to Israel's strategic dilemma, in their view, was to somehow change the Arab governments.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/05/04/chalabi/in...
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Pretty good rundown on (and of!) Chalabi. I see no tie-in with Darwish.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #83
84. She is an Arab that tells Israelis what they want to here
and only represents enough other Arabs to meet in a phone both. Israelis need to recognize that normal Arabs simply won't accept settlements, the same way normal black people didn't like slavery.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. Normal Israelis won't accept homicide bombers, either.
The Israeli left tells the world what it wants to hear. The world needs to recognize that normal Isrealies simply won't accept homicide bombings or national suicide, the same way normal Jews and Christians didn't like dhimmitude.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. This women you praise supports the settlements.
Edited on Sun May-30-04 05:15 PM by Classical_Liberal
homicide bombing is not something supported by me either, but the Israelis are definitely the provocateurs here. The built settlements long before there was a homicide bomb problem. As for not accepting national suicide, the settlements are exactly that. Polls show the majority of Israelis will accept land for peace. Unfortunately the majority don't actually govern Israel apparently.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. If Arafat hadn't met diplomacy with intifada, Sharon wouldn't be in power.
The settlements might then well have been on their way to dismantlement.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. I am not so sure about this
How do you account for the election of Netenyahu? There was no bad relations with Palestinians at that time. If anything the Israeli State was under threat from it's own right wing citizens. In that there had been a an assasination of Rabin by a settler fanatic. The israelis responded by electing Netenyahu a settler PM.

The deal Barak gave wasn't that good and he contributed mightily to the problem by claiming he gave Yasser and generous offer, and by not even putting a halt to settlements. He just looked like a dove with talens to the Palestinians. As to the Intifada, it seems to be a spontaneous responce to Sharon's visit to the Muslim sites on the temple mount and not something that happened as a responce to some declaration by Arafat whatever that means.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. That's been widely debunked. Palestinian spokespersons have admitted
that Sharon's visit was a pretext, not a cause.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. Whatever since some settlers want to bomb the mosque
the idea that his visit wasn't provocative is much more easily debunked.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Seeing as how the Temple was a Jewish holy site, neither you nor the
Palestinians nor anyone else has the slightest pretext for calling a visit provocative.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. Nor, Mr. Sagle
Is it necessary to rise to provocation. Generally, it is more wise not to do so, and this seems an occassion that illustrates the wisdom of restraint in face of provocation. It is hard to argue the course of events since the violent response to Sharon's stroll has improved the lot of the people of Arab Palestine in way.
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #95
98. What it reveals is the fact
that Sharon's visit was a convinient excuse for extremists on both sides to push what moderate agenda there was out of the water. Sharon and Hamas have a far more similar agenda than most people are willing to admit, in that they both seek the political (and otherwise) destruction of moderate elements as a means to exerting hegemony over their respective consticuencies, and they both prefer a state of war to one of peace - as in peacetime their messages of hate would be far harder for the populace to swallow.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. That Is Quite True, Sir
It is one of the most destructive elements in this unfortunate situation. The "hard men" of both sides prop each other up in seeking and maintaining political pre-eminence in their own sides.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. The Israelis have the wailing wall
Edited on Tue Jun-01-04 05:33 AM by Classical_Liberal
but visiting the mosque is definately provocative given that the extremists who are Sharon's base have a goal of destroying the mosque. It is Islam's third holiest site. Such an act would be as provocative as Osama's attack on the trade center, not to mention cultural philistinism.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #97
102. He Did Not Visit The Mosque, Sir
He visited the site of the former Herodian temple, a site sacred to Judaism quite literally a milleniom before Islam was a gleam in the eye of Mohammed. These sort of convolutions will happen when one creed appropriates the sacred venues of an antecedent one....
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. The mosque was philosemitic when built, and it wasn't controversial
Edited on Tue Jun-01-04 02:57 PM by Classical_Liberal
either. Nobody has a right to destroy it. It happened little over a month after a group called the temple faithful tried to lay a cornerstone in the mosque. There have been several attempts by settler fanatics to destroy the mosque, and "The temple faithful" and "The Temple Institute" are still trying. Many members of these temple cults belong to the Ateret Cohanim yeshiva, a yeshiva that employs many of their torah scholars and teachers. Sharon is member of the organization, American friends of Ateret Cohanim and a fixture at their New York fundraisers. He raises money for people who want to destroy the Mosque. So does Netenyahu.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #104
109. Oh, Do Give It A Rest, Sir
Edited on Tue Jun-01-04 07:17 PM by The Magistrate
The thing is built on ground oned by right of conquest, and built by same: this does not trouble me much, as most ground on this earth is held by right of conquest, if one troubles to look back far enough. To pretend its erection was some act of ecumenicalism is arrant nonsense.

The existence of some radical fundamentalist Jews with nonsensical plans for rebuilding the Temple does not alter the fact that this particular moaque occupies a site holy to Jews, and central to that religion long before Islam was conceived.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #109
112. You give it a rest
Edited on Wed Jun-02-04 10:01 AM by Classical_Liberal
Palestine was mostly christian when the muslims conquered it. The Roman's had long ago scattered the Jews. The likelyhood that this was done to antagonize Jews is just about nill. Whether you are comfortable with it or not Sharon funds these so called marginal groups that want to destroy the mosque. His presence there was provocative because of this. Just becaue you say sir(presuming everyone male) and act like Judge obviously doesn't render you incapable of putting your hands over your ears, and stomping, when your views are challenged.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #112
113. It Is My Leading Source Of Rest, Ma'am
Where you managed to find any imputation in my brief comment above that the erection of the Al Aqsa was intended to antagonize Jews is beyond me. That it was erected on a site sacred to Jews for more than a millenia at the time it was built is beyond dispute, and such an act necessarily lays down a hostage to fortune and changing times, the future being, as the sage Mr. Berra observed, hard to predict, since it has not happened yet. Nor will you ever find me denying Sharon's act was deliberate provocation, only suggesting it would have been wiser for the Aab Palestinians and their leadership not to have responded violently to that provocation. To respond to provocation is to do what your enemy desires, and this is an offense against any concept of sound strategy, for the essence of that art is to impose your will on the enemy, and not be subject to your enemy's will yourself, and to respond as your enemy hopes to provocation is to accept the imposition of his will upon your actions.

As to the your final trifle, Ma'am: in the absence of any clear indication either way, the wiser the comments, the more likely my conclusion will be that they are those of a woman. My experience of life has been that women have more sense....

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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. (And for those playing along at home)
imputation ( P )


The act of imputing or ascribing; attribution.
Something imputed, ascribed, or attributed.


no problem.
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #114
117. Thank you, Alex.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #113
115. I am not committed to be a sir or a maddam, and don't see the
Edited on Wed Jun-02-04 07:50 PM by Classical_Liberal
relevance to the debate. Why the hell get hot under the collar, because I am critical of Sharon and his temple fanatics?
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-04 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #115
118. Forgive Me, Ma'am
But your comment reminds me of an old "Borsch Belt" comedian's shtick: although unfortunately the gentleman's name escapes immediate recollection, the routine remains lodged in my mind. He was calling his sister; a small child answered the phone; tremendous complication ensued, during which he asked the child if he were a boy or a girl, and received a non-commital reply: once his sister was finally on the phone, he closed by saying, "And be sure my nephew knows he is a boy! Don't let it wait until he grows up, and makes an arbitrary decision!"
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Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #91
96. the election of Netanyahu
Netanyahu was pole-vaulted into office, as a result of the votes from the Arab sector.

Mr. Peres was declaring victory, but after the Arab votes were counted, he was defeated. There was no support from the Arab sector, so that's how Netanyhu came to be PM for a short term (less than 2 years)

The war advance of Israeli troops into Lebanon, to put down attacks on Israelis, preceeded the elections. Peres was at the time acting PM. For that reason, the Palestinians boycotted the elections.
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
85. Here's betting this group consists of Joseph Farah and no one else.
Edited on Sun May-30-04 08:18 AM by durutti
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
86. FWIW..I e-mailed this thread to Ms. Darwish.
I will post any response from her....I suspect she will
be very interested.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #87
103. Delete away
the email was already sent :shrug:
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
99. Letters from the website:
Subject: We Support Israel
My father and I are Arab, and we support Israel and condemn violent acts against anyone. Thank you for speaking out and encouraging others to do so.

Peace be upon you and many blessings.

The Mahdis

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/pages/3/index.htm



=====================================================================

a true person of peace

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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #99
105. wow 5 letters ....
:eyes:
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. "their numbers are growing every day"...
I wonder how many supportive e-mails Nonie recieved from Rafah.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. As opposed to other people.......
Edited on Tue Jun-01-04 05:03 PM by drdon326


We are facing an enemy that uses children as human bombs, mothers as suicide bombers, and men driven by the glory of death and the promise of eternal sexual bliss in heaven. We are fighting an enemy that loves death more than we love life. I am a victim of the Lebanese civil war, which was the first front in the worldwide Jihad of militant Islam against the only Christian country in the Middle East. My familys home was shelled and destroyed leaving me wounded. I lived underground in a bomb shelter from age 10 to 17 without electricity and very little food. I had to crawl under sniper bullets to a spring to fetch water for my elderly parents. I was betrayed by my country, rescued by my enemy Israel, the Jewish State that is under attack for its existence today.

http://www.americancongressfortruth.com

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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. like being Palestinian and having your house bull-dozed...huh
"My familys home was shelled and destroyed leaving me wounded. I lived underground in a bomb shelter from age 10 to 17 without electricity and very little food"

btw.. I oppose using children as human bombs, mothers as suicide bombers, and men driven by the glory of death and the promise of eternal sexual bliss in heaven..... for the benefit of Palestinians
as well as Jews
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Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #108
111. BTW
"btw.. I oppose using children as human bombs, mothers as suicide bombers, and men driven by the glory of death and the promise of eternal sexual bliss in heaven..... for the benefit of Palestinians
as well as Jews"

Opposing the practice doesn't make it disappear. BTW, how is it supposed to benefit Jews?
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #111
116. I thought not being blown up would be a benefit for anyone ...
Christian, Jew, Muslim alike .. ;)

Opposing the practice doesn't make it disappear.

Opposing the Occupation might ...

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Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-04 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #116
121. Opposing the Occupation
A catch phrase with little true meaning.
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #121
128. "A catch phrase with little true meaning."
an Orwellian phrase with little true meaning.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
100. Apparently this movement is not just in North America...
Subject: Very proud of you
As-salamu 'alaykum (Peace on you)

I am very glad to know that there is Arabs and Moslems so open minded and peaceful as you are.

I am Mohamed Pascal Hilout, member of the Mouvement des Maghrbins Laques de France and the initiater of "the new islam" with three foundations :
- Libert : freedom of thinking, of criticism and changing his faith
- Justice, that means equal rights for our sisters, mothers and wifes
- Paix (peace) that means the end of the djihad of our ancestors.

Last year, I proposed for an israelian-palestinian delegation here in Paris that Arafat should offer to Sharon to come and pry with him in the Al-Aqsa Mosq and invite also the Pope to pry all together in the nativity Church.

I have an other project : we arabs, moslems, christians, jews and non religious persons around the world we should buit again for our humanity the temple of jerusalem as a basis, on the second terrasse we bild a church between the jewish temple et the Al Aqsa mosque. The three prying place should communicate together and we should have at least a prying day for the all the three communities. With this project I am sure we will ensure peace for the coming generations and restablish Jerusalem as a town of peace.

Now you know that you are not alone

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/pages/3/index.htm

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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
123. FWIW.....My TWO letters FROM Nonie Darwish
Dear Don,

I apologize for the delay in my response. The reaction to
ArabsforIsrael.com is phenomenal.

I can understand that the website you sent me will reject
what I have to say. I AM a moderate conservative Republican.
One thing I must tell you is that I an an independent
thinker and speak for myself and I am proud to support the
country I CHOSE to call home, the USA. I also fear the
danger coming from Radical Militant Islamists.

I am also proud to support Israel.

Shalom
Nonie Darwish
......................................................

Dear Don,

It's me again.

Some of the people who were making comments against me
criticizing my culture of origin gave me the impression
of "how dare you". How progressive of them to call me
bigotted for doing that when I am writing against terrorism
from America.

They are the hipocrates because the left often writes
against America, but still live in America!!

Try to speak out in the Arab World and you guys will
understand exactly what I mean.

You have my permission to post this in your forum

Nonie
==============END OF LETTERS============================

Right or wrong .....decide for yourself.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-04 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #123
125. And there it is
Edited on Thu Jun-10-04 01:55 AM by Djinn
"They are the hipocrates (sic) because the left often writes
against America, but still live in America!!"

you can never criticise a country and live there - you must be a right wing automaton - like this insipid pro Bush, pro Iraq, pro Republican bot!
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
124. Why I love Israel by T. Abdelhamid
As a man who just want to be honest, I will never forget when Israel Air Forces was above Cairo in 1967 in a war that, as usual, initiated by the Arabs, they could have destroyed the whole of Cairo but they did not do that. This for me represents the highest degree of civilisation ever as I know very well that if the opposite had happened and the Arabs were above Tel Aviv with their Air forces they would not have hesitated for even a second to destroy all of it.

I will never forget Israel the country, Israel the civilisation, Israel the great meaning that put its sons and daughters at risk to select the terrorists who hide in between the civilians instead of killing without discrimination , Israel the democracy that allows all different religions to exist on its land (compare this to Saudi Arabia that prevents any other people but Muslims from practicing their own religions, dose not allow any Non-Muslims to built their temples to pray, or even having their religious books with them).
For these reason I will never forget Israel.the Flower of the Middle East.

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/pages/8/index.htm
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-04 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #124
126. The settlements are land theft and any Arab that doesn't criticize
Edited on Thu Jun-10-04 06:27 AM by Classical_Liberal
them is not serious. Any Arab that supports pro=transfer Daniel Pipes isn't serious. Just another Chalabi. It is pathetic really. It is just like all those blacks that were paid to support segregation to white supremicist audiences. This is primarily for the consumption of neocons, not Arabs.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #126
129. Ouch.
"any Arab that doesn't criticize them is not serious."

Does it seem strange to you, that people who who have a
first-hand view and a clearly unique perspective,should be
dismissed by you as "not serious"?

Your statement is breath-taking.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #129
131. Exactly how does this bigoted woman have a 'clearly unique perspective'?
Apart from the obvious fact of course that bigots find it much easier to not criticise stealing of Palestinians land and the destruction of their livelihoods than someone who's not a bigot....

I'm kind of curious as to why you appear to embrace anyone who falls into the Israel Is Always Right camp as being someone who wants peace,no matter how vile or bigoted their rantings are, but don't feel the same about those who are moderates and do engage in criticism of Israel as well as the PA...

Violet...
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #129
132. BTW.....See if this one is "not serious" to you...
"Citing pro-Jewish verses in the Quran, Sheikh Palazzi told a Jewish audience in Cleveland recently, "There are many good Muslims who value life on earth and the sanctity of their families. Israel should make every effort to support the growth of a pro-Israel movement among these Muslims... They felt that Israel was selling them out to Arafat. They need to be supported and encouraged to speak out in defense of Israel without fear of being assassinated by the PLO or Hamas...

Oslo signaled to many of us that Israel was ready to accept peace at any price, and make incredible concessions to ruthless criminals."

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/pages/6/index.htm

==============================================================

Perhaps you want to discount/dismiss/downplay these pro-democracy
anti-fascist voices as "not serious" ??

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-04 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #132
133. That one was hilarious!
"Oslo signaled to many of us that Israel was ready to accept peace at any price, and make incredible concessions to ruthless criminals."

'peace at any price'?? You really believe this crap?

Oops. Ignore the question mark there. I've worked out there's no point asking a question as it won't get any answer....

Violet...
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #132
134. There were prosegregation blacks in the 60s
Edited on Mon Jun-14-04 01:59 AM by Classical_Liberal
They mostly went on speaking tours for the CCC. They got paid alot of money for it. I guess they really reflected the sentiments of their people too.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #132
135. That proves they absolute bizarro world this group is living in.
. The only people who hated Oslo were the settlers, and the apartied advocates.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-04 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #124
127. Deleted message
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
137. Must be one helluva phonebooth...more letters to "Arabs for Israel"
From a general point of view, I see a relevant progress. Nonie Darwish - whom I had the pleasure to know during my last speaking tour in North America - has recently founded "Arabs for Israel", and I hope her initiative will be successful. In the same time, in Canada Sarah Nasser has founded "Muslims for Israel", ana some Muslims students at the University of Toronto are actively cooperating with her.

Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi
Director
Cultural Institute of the Italian Islamic Community
http://amislam.com
mailto:islam.inst@flashnet.it

-------------------------------------------

As-Salamu Alaykum,

I am a student of Egyptian origin at UCLA. I would like to start a similar
group to yours on my campus. Do you have any tips for doing it?

You can post my views anonymously on your website.
I support Israel because I see it as a model for all the Arab and Muslim
nations in the Middle East. Israel is ages ahead of its neighbors in all
terms, democracy, human rights, science, technology, and its time for
countries like Jordan, Syria, Iran, and others to catch up. Work with
Israel and good things will happen.
Anonymous
Reply
I am going to volunteer my time to any college group that starts ArabsforIsrael on its campus.
Nonie Darwish
----------------------------

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:12:46 -0400
From: <i.mumin
To: <nonie@arabsforisrael.com >
arabs for Israel...thank you

assalaamu alaikum Nonie...How fortunate I am to have found this website!!! I have been trying to get the Muslims I come in contact with to see the horror of Palestinian Terrorism (and all Terrorism) and it's detrimental effect on the world's feelings towards Islam.
As a convert (15 yrs.) to Islam from a Jewish family, I have been accused of everything from being Pro-Israel and "not a real Muslim" to being a spy.
I have written many articles and letters to Islamic organizations over the years and have received very few answers and these answers were always angry. So. Now I no longer feel like a voice crying in the wilderness
I have taken the liberty of sending some of this correspondence to you and I want to thank you again for your views, your courage and your website.

America is an empire built on strength and the dignity of the common man. Such empire building is part of Islamic history. America gives its citizens, immigrants included, the right to practice the religion of their choice, much like the Islamic Empires of the past.
America gives the chance for education for all regardless of race, religion, gender or even sexual orientation.
America gives more money in charity and humanitarian aid than any country in the world, including the oil-rich Muslim countries. Where is the charity of these so-called Muslim countries that are bound by the Quran and sunnah to give to widows and orphans?
I fear Muslims in America will be led into the trap of blaming the USA and Western civilization for our own faults and shortcomings. We must look to The Quran and the sunnah and to ourselves for guidance and listen not to the doom-Sayers who would have you believe that Muslims in this country are in some sort of danger.
Denounce terrorism and talk Islam.
Your Brother in Islam Ibrahim Abdul Mumin i.mumin@verizon .net
---------------------------------------------------------------

Progressive muslims who denounce terrorism.

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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #137
138. Progressive Arabs for settlements
Yeah right. It is probable that alot of these letters are conservatives or pro=Israel activists pretending to be Arabs. Kind of like the republicans on this board who pretend to be dems until the mods catch onto them. OR like all those AstroTurf pro=Bush letters to the editor, that claim to be soldiers stationed in Iraq.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #138
139. CL....
write to them and ask...start here.

Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi
Director
Cultural Institute of the Italian Islamic Community
http://amislam.com
mailto:islam.inst@flashnet.it

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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #139
140. Like someone who was lying about who they were would tell the truth?
Edited on Mon Jun-21-04 02:24 PM by Classical_Liberal
Chalabi claimed to represent Iraqies. All I know is that any arab who supports settlements and who supports Daniel Pipes, a man who believes all Muslims should be under survielance, is something akin to a Jew voting for Pat Buchannan, and should be looked at with extreme scepticism and suspicion.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-04 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #140
141. So??
write anyway....see what response you get and post it.

Clearly there is a tide of pro-peace,pro-democracy,anti-fascist
progressive movement in the muslim community that really cant
be ignored.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
142. Is there a hope to Reform Islam by T. Abdelhamid
.Furthermore, Islamic Terrorism was minimal between the declaration of the state of Israel in 1948, until the early 1970s, when the Arabs were in a real war with Israel.

If the Israeli/Palestinian conflict was the cause of terrorism, we would have found terrorism booming between 1948 till early 1970s. On the contrary, it dramatically increased in the late 1980s and until now when some Arabs states have signed peace agreements with Israel.

This increase in terrorism directly correlates with the rising of Islamism in the late 1980s and till now.

The dramatic increase in terrorism happened after the rising of Islamism in the late 1980s. If the Israeli/Palestinian conflict was the cause of terrorism as the Arabs and Muslims want to convince the world, we would have expected terrorism to peak from the start of the state of Israel in 1948. Any honest observer should ask himself/herself why terrorism started to peak in the 1980s and not since 1948. I do not think the answer needs a rocket scientist to figure it out!
I have a Muslim/Arabic background, and I know how Muslims (including myself at an early stage of my life) think, I clearly state that Muslims are using the excuse of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict just to make the world hate Israel. It has nothing to do with the current phenomenon of terrorism. Which was going to happen any way, as a secondary phenomenon to expanding a violent version of Islam in later years.

It is also difficult for any normal mind to comprehend that throwing concentrated sulphuric acid on the face of young girls who do not wear the Islamic veil/scarf, by the hands of the Islamic groups in Algeria, is related to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

..........http://www.arabsforisrael.com/pages/6/index.htm

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