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hellboy Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:00 AM
Original message
Scapegoating Israel and the Jews
Why is everything Israel's fault? Why don't the muslims and Arabs accept responsibility for their many dysfunctional problems? Their unemployment rate is sky high, many of their countries support terrorism and their leaders are corrupt tyrants, they treat women as second class citizens and their gov't's are dictatorships. Their leaders, through madrasses and state sponsored television attempt to redirect their anger and frustration toward Israel for all their problems. Just my humble opinion.
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, you make some good points but...
you need to ask yourself:

* why is the dictatorship of Saudi Arabia given special treatment?
* why hasn't the USA insisted that Kuwait become a liberal democracy?
* why does the dictatorship of Egypt receive huge sums of US aid?

You see, hellboy, the people in the ME and those who join Al Qaeda don't hate you because you buy houses or because you watch Jerry Springer. They HATE you because you prop up their dictators.
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Out of curiosity
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 10:22 AM by forgethell
Why is it America's responsibility to do anything for the ME. As we are learning in Iraq, you can't force democracy down the throats of a people who do not want it. But even if they do, is it not their responsibility to fight for it? Why don't they rebel against their own rulers if they are unhappy. How does killing Americans help them?
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the Kelly Gang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. it's not the US's responsibility so why don't they fuck off !
who ever asked the USA to go into anyone's country and bomb the be-jesus out of them ???
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lindashaw Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think it's like us here in the US. No one blames the people of
any of this mess. But we all look at our leaders and see that they have brought us here. We can all do this -- Israel, Palestinians and Americans. I don't see a solution unless there is a way that the people can reclaim their respective governments.
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. Muslims and Arabs are dysfunctional....?
Hmmm....interesting. :eyes:
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I don't think that's what the author was trying to say.
Do you care to refute his points specifically, or just roll your eyes?
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I think that is EXACTLY what the poster wanted to say....
and if the same thing were to be said about the Jews, these boards
would light up like an Xmas tree....
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. You still aren't refuting any of his claims...
I would at least expect someone on a "progressive" board to be annoyed by their treatment of women. I think the fact that many Arab countries are ruled by dictators is a well-established fact... I don't see what you're trying to say.
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yes, they ARE ruled by dictators....backed by the US no less.
And they are there for a reason: cheap oil.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. So then why do people like Mubarak
always tell their people it's Israel's fault that they are poor? That's not to say anything about Bashar in Syria, who the US opposes.
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nice little spin you got there.
"Blaming Israel" for being poor? Too funny, Mubarak is propped up by
the US, even getting neat little military toys almosy on par with
Israel.
Trying to spin it your way then. Pathetic.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'd prefer to just roll my eyes
but even accepting what the poster says it's not an excuse for Israel to commit the wrongs they do as well.One crime never excuses another.
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. Certainly
portions of their societies are.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Same here in the US
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:25 AM
Original message
Well, I certainly can't deny that
but you have to look at the relative proportions. Can we both agree that sending your children out to be suicide bombers is dysfunctional, at the least. On a percentage basis, does Palestine or the USA have more child suicide bombers? What about on an absolute basis, America being so much more populous? Then whose leaders are more adept at ripping off their own people? I admit, America has some world class competitors in office right now, but Christ, the whole Mid-East is floating on a sea of oil, the revenues of which go for the personal fortunes of their government officials. Arabs 2, USA 0. Now we could go into the relative violence of the various societies. There it might be harder to defend the USA, so I won't even try. I will say this, except among some immigrant communities, I know of no female circumcision in the USA, and that is illegal. I know of no "honor" killings, although maybe a 'jealous rage' could qualify as the same thing. but in America, that is punished. I know of very little religious freedom in the Mid-East. There are no dhimmis in the USA.



:think:
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
32. Yes It Is Sad
But portions of all societies are dysfuntional, not just the Islamic world.
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. Obvious flame bait.
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. No doubt....
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
11. It's much easier to gain sympathy with the many who
hate Jews. I wonder how many here would like to worry everyday when their children get on a bus, that they may be blown to bits on their way to or from school. It's easier to view Muslims and Arabs are repressed people.
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. That's why I recommend nuking the entire site from orbit....
just to be sure.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #11
33. You Don't Have to be Jewish to Worry About Your Childs Safety
Parents here worry when their children leave to go to school. I used to worry about my children mainly because of gang violence. There were several shootings at the high school tha my son and daughter attended.

So, no we don't worry about human bombs, we just worry because law enforcement does not have the assests to protect our children from
gang violence, molesters, and a hundred other diffrent threats that
are here in the US.

And besides, if what this administration has been saying is true, then perhaps American parents should start worrying about our children getting blown up on their way to and from school.

Haven't they been saying that terrorists are going to launch attacks against the US?
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
16. Its called a pathetic double standard.
See, no when bitches when these thugocracies treat theyre people
like shit....no, no, no....blame a democracy like israel that in 50+
years went from desert to high-tech society.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. A-fucking-men. The MORONIC REPULSIVE anti-Israel chic has become
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 10:42 AM by Bombtrack
a sad staple of the European left and American hard-left. Unfortunatly those foolish ideas dominate much of the attitudes expressed on DU.

The neglect to see the clear problem as Islam and it's need for secularization of the middle east is patantly obvious among the narrow minded. And the pathetic icing on the cake besides all of this is the political implication towards the democratic party and therefor the US and therefor the world when jewish democrats are losing faith in the left because of this idiocy.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. wah
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Oh....the holier than thou European left......
they can always be counted on to bash israel and ignore
the spiraling jihadofascism.
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Hornito Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
21. Flamebait - garbage.
nt
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the Kelly Gang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
23. not the Jew's fault..but certainlty the Likkud Party promotes violence
plenty of Israeli's hate what is happening to Palestinians.

Another angle..the suicide bombs go off in the Israel working class areas..as usual the rich and ruling classes remain untouched
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. WHAAAAAT ???
where did you get that theory from??
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the Kelly Gang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. which theory ?
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. .
"the suicide bombs go off in the Israel working class areas..as usual the rich and ruling classes remain untouched"

funny....the suicide bombers really dont give a flying shit
who they kill....as long as theyre JEWS.....OR what the
PA TV calls them...the zionist entity that are descendants of pigs
and monkeys.
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the Kelly Gang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. correct..but it's fairly obvious that a suicide bomber will never
get near the ruling class who live in better protected communities hence they end up on buses generally taking commuters to work, school etc. so like any 'war' the elite never feel the full effects of the ourtrages they perpetuate..which is what the current rulers of Israel are inflicting upon innocent Palestinian citizens even though their own citizens get murdered in return and visa versa.

that's not a theory that's just a fact.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
24. Indeed, why is anything anybodies fault?
We are all just dust in the wind, after all.
Let's just forget the whole thing.
Israel can not be responsible for the mess it is in,
and the Arab's can be relieved of responsibility for
their situation. What do you think of Janet Jackson's
tit anyway?
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swinney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
30. Palestine has been invaded--slaughtered
Can you comprehend they are victims fighting an invader.

Bombings and Palestinian killing of Jews did not jump until--

1.Gorbachev allowed russian jews to emigrate to Israel.

2. They needed a place to live.

3. settlememts were built on West Bank--Palestinian property.

4. Palestinian homes were "blown" up to make room for settlements.

5. Young kids started--throwing rocks and sticks in streets of West Bank.

5. Reaction by jews.Kill. Kill. Kill.

6. Cameras on West Bank recorded the slaughters.

7. Cameras were removed.

8. How many kids had been killed?

9. My memory says over 600.

WEST BANK WEST BANK WEST BANK INVASION BY A FOREIGN POWER.

Many Palestinians worked for Jews in Israel lost jobs.

Palestianians are no more evil than Israelis. They love their families. They love their God. They love their church. They love schools. They love to own property.

Look for me. I am invading your neighborhood, kill your children and burn your homes. Have a good day.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
31. everything isn`t israel fault
i have nothing against the nation or it`s people and religion. i have a problem with the sharon government starting an uprising that has killed over 3-4 thousand people so he can stay in power. there was never a wall untill he took control of israel. a nation that has to resort to building a wall around itself because it refuses to deal with their neighbors,in my mind,is morally corrupt.
the arab world`s leader for the most part is just as bad. they use the haterd of the jews to keep themselves in power because the extremists would over throw them. there is no one in the middle east and beyond that has clean hands in any of this. we backed the jews in their quest for a country when the arabs were backed by the russians..client states for the cold war. israel became a democracy and the other nations didn`t.
what i find troubling is that the voices of moderation have demonized in israel as it is here in the states..when sharon and bush get together there can be nothing good to come out of it. for all of the whitehouse denial he still does what sharons tells him to do-there are checks to cash and votes to win. does anyone think that bush could care about the jews and israel? i bet that wasp mother of his would have shit if little georgie dated a nice jewish girl.....
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
34. Locking
Per I/P guidelines, not based on a recent news or op-ed article.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground
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