5 Reasons to Stop US Military Aid to Israel

[Resistance]

"I am a black South African, and if I were to change the names, a description of what is happening in the Gaza Strip and West Bank could describe events in South Africa." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu

http://www.stop-us-military-aid-to-israel.net/5reasons.htm

1) Israel Is Illegally Occupying Palestine

2) Israel Systematically Violates the Human Rights of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories

3) Israel is an Apartheid State

4) US Military Aid to Israel Violates US Law

5) US Military Aid to Israel threatens US Security and Global Stability

Under UN Resolution 242, Israel is required by international law to withdraw from all the territories occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem. The United Nation's General Assembly has repeatedly condemned Israel's occupation of the territories as illegal (see UN resolutions 338, 1397, and 1402, among others). Israel's continued occupation of Palestine, sanctioned and maintained by the US, is one of the most serious obstructions to a just and lasting peace in the Middle East.

[commander bunnypants]

1. I agree

DDQM

[Equinox]

8. I can't argue.

All true. What do we do about it though? Can we take our government back and actually have congress do something that is in the interest of the US and not AIPAC?

[mmm]

2. all true

.

[Darranar]

3. Israel isn't an aparthied state...

it is on the way to being one, but as long as one million Arabs live and vote in Israel, it isn't.

[Resistance]

4. I don't know about that ....

Everyone knows that Israeli policy is and always has been to keep that Arab population to a small minority, so the effect is still Apartheid in my view.

[Darranar]

5. Regardless...

the two groups have almost the same rights, and both can vote. Aparthied is a stretch.

[Malikshah]

6. That's what I've found interesting

THe issue of Israeli Arabs.

Was taught by a famous one while at Michigan

Whilst I'm a medievalist by trade--was always interested in finding out just what the rights of Israeli Arab citizens 1) have been -- from 1948 and b) are --both in terms of laws and reality.

One can say all they want one way or another concerning the issue--but I'd love to find a source that breaks it down.

Having the right to vote is one thing, yes-- but there is so much more--furthermore--the issue of who's allowed to be a candidate, etc.

Best,

MS

[Equinox]

9. "Almost the same rights"

but not quite the same rights. Also, the thing about separate ID cards bothers me. Segregationist is a term that comes to mind. Arabs are not afforded the same rights as Jews in Israel. I think we can all agree on that. And it's tragic as Israel calls itself the only democracy in the Mideast.

I've got to check the definition of democracy again. The US calls itself one yet president whom I didn't elect and was not elected by the majority goes against the wishes of his constituency with regard to domestic and foreign policy. How does this make sense?

Israel and the US I guess need to keep calling themselves democracies because deep down everyone knows it's a sham.

[GabysPoppy]

13. Would you like to be more specific

Almost the same rights""
Posted by Equinox
but not quite the same rights. Also, the thing about separate ID cards bothers me. Segregationist is a term that comes to mind. Arabs are not afforded the same rights as Jews in Israel. I think we can all agree on that.

--------------------------------------------------

I do not agree with that statement. You are making a claim without either specifics or a source. A blanket statement such as that one does you or the discussion no credit.

[Equinox]

16. I would think that it is up to you to point out the fallacy of my opinion.

Do you not agree that Arab and Jew are not exact equals in Israel?

Answer truthfully.

[tinnypriv]

18. To jump in, you should note that this is a standard diversionary tactic

The way it works is: you ask for the sources, and when the target provides them you:

1. Just simply ignore whatever they say anyway, or

2. Question the veracity of the sources with zero corroberation of your own.

It wastes their time and immobilises them from useful endeavours, and costs you basically nothing.

:thumbsup: on your response, Equinox. :D

[Equinox]

26. I've seen how things work,

I'm more interested in peace than excuses and diversionary tactics.

Thanks for the compliment tinnypriv. :hi: :toast:

[GabysPoppy]

19. Seeing that I have spent some time in Israel

I have seen much to be able to say that Israeli Arabs are treated the same as Israelis.

So your opinion is incorrect based on my own visual knowledge.

[Equinox]

27. Well I have read much that tells me different.

However, I cannot claim to have visited the area. So we will just leave it at that.

[GabysPoppy]

30. you might want to broaden your choices of reading then

It seems like you have made up your mind and seek only those articles that agree with that mindset.

[Tinoire]

31. It's all in the eye of the beholder I guess

One of my dearest friends and boss told me he would never step foot in Israel again because it was in Israel, that for the first time in his life, he was ashamed to be Jewish. This feeling had much to do with the Israeli treatement of the Arabs who lived in Israel. "They treat them like dogs" he said.

Go figure how two people could see different things so differently :shrug:
---

Responding to a possible security and public-relations disaster, representatives of some of America's largest Jewish organizations met recently to address the financial and social disparities hobbling Israel's Arab citizens.

The organizers were responding to urgent calls to ameliorate what one termed "state-supported discrimination" against Israeli Arabs.

<snip>

Advocates for Israeli Arabs point to a raft of reports by Israel and watch-dog organizations noting an uneven distribution of Israeli government resources to Israel's 1.2 million Arab citizens, 42% of whom live below the poverty line.

<snip>

If such reports are picked up by the American media, it could be "a horrible embarrassment for the Israeli government," said Leonard Fein, a consultant to the New Israel Fund and a founder of Americans for Peace Now (and a columnist for this newspaper). "There are few issues more resonant in America than state-supported discrimination."

<snip>

http://www.forward.com/issues/2001/01.12.28/news2.html

------------------------------------
<snip> 4 October 2002

Ta'ayush: Arab-Jewish Partnership organized a major rally last Saturday to protest the growing racism and discrimination inside Israel against Arab citizens of the state. This is critical, especially when our Minister of Education orders all schools to devote one hour of class time to studying the 'legacy' of assassinated politician Rehavam Ze'evi - a racist legacy that advocated the forcible expulsion Israeli Arabs from Israel. It's no wonder that activists from both Ta'ayush and the Coalition of Women for Peace have engaged in artistic midnight forays to counteract a wave of racist graffiti.

<snip>

http://www.ariga.com/5763/2002-10-04-gsvirksy.shtml

[Gimel]

14. Israel ID cards

All citizens are issued ID cards at the age of 15 (if applied for). The cards no longer are issued with the religion entry filled in. Older ID cards carry a typed reference to religion. The is not a separate ID for Israel citizens. The ID's for Arab residents of Jerusalem is something else. But Jerusalem is contested territory, as are the areas of the West Bank and Gaza.

If Israel extended to these areas you might claim that, but everyone knows that the PA governs most of the West Bank and all of Gaza. So what exactly is the problem with ID cards?

Look at Europe and America. Haven't there been quotas for immigration for centuries? Why should different rules be applied to Israel?

[Equinox]

17. Quotas for immigration based on religion exclusively....

is racist. There is no getting around that.

With respect to ID cards, I was referring to one group being identified as Nationals and the other as Citizens. I'll have to look for a link on that.

[Gimel]

21. Jewish heritage

This is a heritage based on ancestry. Intermarriage accounts for the majority of the exceptions. However, conversion is not necessary for immigration. Check the facts.

[Gimel]

20. Rich and poor in America

Do they have the same rights? How many blacks are poor compared to whites? How many minorities have the money to get a higher education? These are things you might ask yourselves before demanding that a country that pulled itself up by the bootstrapes from the death camps of Europe, offer equal rights to all citizens and immigration to anyone who asks.

[Equinox]

28. Ouch. Don't get defensive.

I can't stand the way this country behaves as well. :o

Israel pulling itself from the bootstraps? You mean declaring statehood in the middle of an area that was already taken, oh. Ok.

[Gimel]

32. Taken by the UN?

Oh, you must mean the Turkish Empire or perhaps the British Mandate. Taken and declare? It was destined. It's history and the world has to accept that fact. Population explosion is no excuse for pushing Jews around the world from the ovens of Hitler to the pogroms of Russia and into the bombs of the Palestinians. Huh.

[Equinox]

34. Look, you chose to use the phrase "pull of from bootsraps"

I was simply pointing out the fact that Israel was declared in the middle of land that belonged to other people. Not even the UN partition was legal in terms of its own charter. Israel is here to stay, however, don't bring up phrases such as yours without it being argued as to how it "pulled itself from its bootstraps."

[NickDanger]

23. Approaching Jim Crow

Whatever the label, I'd much prefer the life and rights of an Israeli Jew than an Israeli Arab.

[dfong63]

7. many Jewish writers have described Israel as an apartheid state

Israel isn't an aparthied state... it is on the way to being one, but as long as one million Arabs live and vote in Israel, it isn't.

allowing them to vote isn't enough to disqualify Israel as an apartheid state. there are limits to what the vote can do. in particular, the vote is not enough to allow them to gain the full citizenship rights that Jewish citizens enjoy. admit it - if Jews in this country (USA) had to endure even 1% of the discrimination that Arabs are subjected to in Israel, they'd be screaming anti-semitism at the top of their lungs. for comparison, listen to the shrill cries about Mel Gibson's latest movie. it's just a movie - it's not diminishing anyone's rights. it's not depriving people of the right to immigrate based on race. it's not depriving anyone of a job, education, or housing. it's not locking up anyone in jail. yet it's enough to make Mel Gibson the target of accusations of anti-semitism.

of course, it IS possible for a movie to be anti-semitic. i haven't seen this movie, but from what i've heard, i am skeptical of the charges in this case. however, i'm going to reserve judgment on that for now. my main point here is that there seems to be way more zealousness concerning the rights of Jews in this country, than there is concerning the rights of Arabs in Israel.

whether you call it "apartheid" or something else, i don't think Israel is deserving of US aid, and certainly not deserving to the extent of being the TOP recipient of US foreign aid, as it is. why are we subsidizing Israel when at the same time we're cutting back on valuable domestic programs like Americorps, No Child Left Behind, and Head Start? our own nation's roads and electricity grid, are falling apart. millions of americans can't afford health care. we don't have money to fix our own problems, but somehow we have plenty of money to give to Israel????

[Equinox]

10. Absurd really....

I don't have health insurance. I'm screwed if I get sick but hey I helped buy the Israelis their Apaches and F-16's so I guess I'm okay. (serious sarcasm)

It pisses me off really. My govenment doesn't care about me. But they care about a country and government who's past and present policies are morally questionable.

[Gimel]

22. Buy health ins

I do.

[Equinox]

29. The problem is,

I don't want to buy F-16s and the like for Israel. I think my government should pay for my health insurance. You've assumed I can afford it. Well no. I can't. I make sure I don't get sick so that Israel can have $4 billion a year.

If you think about it, I'm Israel's number one supporter!

[Gimel]

33. No solution for you

That's a cop-out. It's a matter of personal priority. Anyway, I'm sure there are public clinics for the poor in the US, which cost next to nothing. If you choose to drive a car and not carry health insurance, that's your problem.

The US government decides foreign policy, to address your complaint to them, not to Israel.

[Equinox]

35. I can address my complaint to whomever I wish, thank you.

I'll be sure not to post opinions on an internet message board. (intense sarcasm).

[StandWatie]

11. it's not even that great for Jews

There was a tiny Arab-Jewish party in the 80's that was deemed illegal because it called for equality of all people and it was found to be in violation of laws regarding political parties that espoused "denial of the existence of the State of Israel as the state of the Jewish people"

[Equinox]

12. Yes...this we call Democracy.

n/t

[Gimel]

15. Many false statements here

this is one of them:

Electricity, sewerage, and roads are provided free to Israeli households

Israeli households pay heavily for electricy,water, sewage, gas and all pay property taxes to support roads, etc. Families pay for children's education, school books, school transportation, etc.

[bocadem]

24. I like Israel

And it seems to me they are constantly attacked.... which makes me like them more.

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. Yours is a voice in the wilderness

Boy I am glad radical comments like this get their due in the U.S. Congress with BOTH parties. You can howl at the moon all you want, but it will have no impact.

Israel is the only true U.S. ally in the Mideast. It will continue to receive aid.

1) Israel is not illegally occupying anything. If or when the Palestinian government ever negotiates a peace treaty creating a Palestinian state, much of their territory will belong to the new state.

2) Palestinian terror groups systematically violate the Human Rights of Israelis. Israel is fighting a war against such groups.

3) Israel is an NOT Apartheid State. It is a state created to be a homeland for the Jewish people. I'm sorry that bothers you, but you are a little late on complaining about it.

4) US Military Aid to Israel protects our biggest regional ally.

5) US Military Aid to Israel threatens US Security and Global Stability -- So would the lack of aid. If Israel feels more threatened, it is more likely to have to escalate battles with neighboring countries or even have to use nuclear weapons to defend itself.

[Lithos]

36. Locking

Not based on a current article or news event.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
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