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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 08:51 PM
Original message
When women and girls are the enemy
<snip>

"magine a world where all photographs of women and girls - on posters, advertising material, buses, billboards and shop windows - gradually disappear from public view; where supermarket lines are segregated and men and women sit in different sections of public transport: men at the front, women at the back.

This is Jerusalem in November 2011.

Israel's ultra-Orthodox, or Haredi, community may be just a large (and growing) minority, but the impact of its deeply conservative values is being felt strongly in the country.

Not content with segregated streets, queues and buses, extremist members of the Haredi have turned their attention to the city of Bet Shemesh, 30 kilometres to the west of Jerusalem.

Here, Jewish girls as young as six, wearing a conservative uniform of skirts below the knee and shirts to the elbow, are being targeted by the Haredi, called ''pritzas'' (prostitutes) for being ''immodestly dressed'' as they walk into Orot girls school, a state-funded religious-nationalist school. The Haredi are demanding the girls cover up. And, it doesn't end there. Fresh from their fight last month to segregate an entire street in the ultra-Orthodox Jerusalem neighbourhood of Mea Sharim during the religious celebration of Sukkot - the Haredi have set their sights on billboards and other advertising material that feature images of women.

So far the ultra-Orthodox have managed to ensure a public health campaign to attract organ donors only uses pictures of men, while an insurance company has removed images of girls from its child health promotional material."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/when-women-and-girls-are-th...
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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. religion is just sick shit ment to controll the masses.
While I will admit that given the massive scale of the known universe, it is probable that we can't understand everything, after all, 100 years ago if you told folks that we would oneday be able to project imiges through space they would have locked you up, the idea of a vengfull, all powerful being just makes me sick.
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. This development in Israeli society is disturbing, not because it's Israel, but
because it seems to be some sort of regression in a society that was previously more enlightened on this issue.
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. The Haredim were more enlightened on this issue?
When ?

They behave like this in Miami and New York too.

A lot of them , such as the Naturei Karta are anti-Zionists.
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I had a much less informed meaning, only that Israeli society at large has always
Edited on Fri Nov-18-11 10:31 PM by enough
seemed to me pretty enlightened on gender issues. I'm not at all informed on the factions.

Speaking entirely from the outside, it's disturbing to see, anywhere, what appears to be a movement away from gender equality and back toward a patriarchal structure.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I don't think thats true...
if a Haredi were to make a fuss about the in-flight movie on an El Al service, he would be treated with kid gloves, because the pilot would fear the political repercussions back home. OTOH, if he tried to do the same thing on Cathay Pacific, he would probably end up sedated.

If you think about it, the West spent a great deal of the past thousand years emasculating their own religious elements, and reducing them to a position where they could no longer threaten the state. Historically, Jews have never had to do this, after all they had the Christians to restrain their own zealots for them. Now, they have the tricky task of doing it on their own.


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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. its nothing more than a power struggle....
the haredim have always believed in this, as their numbers grow (10x kids per family.....) they expand out from the limited neighborhoods and expand in influence in the jerusalem govt.

what we're seeing is the result.........its an endless battle between "good and evil, light and dark, chaos and control......liberal vs religious extremism

they've got the advantage, more kids, and they've got god on their side which pretty much gives them a moral pass on most anything....
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Simply the working out of demographic trends that have long been obvious.
Everything polarizing around the religious and territorial disputes. Quite right.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Jerusalem dance troupe to raise the curtain on rehearsals to protest
Kolben Dance Group, last professional dance company left in Jerusalem, will join protests against exclusion of women from public spaces in the city by removing curtains hiding company's rehearsal hall from the street.

<snip>

"A Jerusalem dance company will join the series of protests against the exclusion of women from public spaces in the capital by removing the curtains that hide the company's rehearsal hall from the street so passersby will be able to see the male and female dancers.

The company, Kolben Dance Group, the last professional dance company left in the city, holds its rehearsals at the Gerard Bechar Center in the Nahlaot neighborhood of downtown Jerusalem, which is home to many ultra-Orthodox and Orthodox people.

Large picture windows were installed in the hall facing the street during renovations a few years ago. However, shortly thereafter, reportedly under pressure from the Jerusalem municipality and ultra-Orthodox residents who also threatened the company's members, it was decided to keep the curtains closed.

The company's advertisements, which show female dancers, have also been vandalized. As a result, the advertisements have had to be without human figures.

"The closing of the curtains was an insufferable blow against our freedoms as well as an economic blow," said Tzafira Stern-Asal, director of the company's school, who thought up the idea.

"The idea is for the public to be exposed to this welcome activity in the center of town. No one has the right to exclude us in this way. All we want to do is open the curtain. Everyone is invited to come and see that this is a matter of culture and we have no reason to be ashamed and hide."

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/jerusalem-dan...
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Oh noes! Lock up your sons!
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 03:38 AM
Response to Original message
7. The Jewish-Muslim sisterhood of the veil
The religious element that was suppressed, or gave in, is bursting forth with renewed vigor. Beji makes clear it is a mistake to view this as a return to the past. The veil is an external characteristic, a trademark, shaping identity in the spirit of the times. It is Islam pride.

Secular Israelis have a hard time deciphering the religious revolution taking place before their eyes because they are used to quarreling with ultra-Orthodox Jews who represent a stable and conservative form of religiosity.

They are confused by nationalist ultra-Orthodox Jews, also known by their Hebrew acronym Hardal. In many respects, the new national ultra-Orthodox Jewish woman, educated career women who grew up with a moderate religious education and chose to be more extreme in the hallmarks of their religiosity, are amazingly similar to the new Muslim women. This includes the Jewish women's comprehensive acceptance of rabbinical authority, an increased birthrate and stricter modesty.

Both groups of women, Muslim and Jewish, have a sense of ethnic-moral supremacy. Both feel that they are leading a revolution that will change society as a whole, including the government.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-jewish...
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. Jerusalem dance studio is the new frontline in battle for secular liberty
Art group defies hardliners' demand to keep women out of sight

<snip>

"The concentration on the dancers' faces was clear through the large windows. In leggings and layers of loose tops, the young women and men arched and spun gracefully as they rehearsed Babel, the contemporary dance show currently performing in Jerusalem.

There was nothing unusual about the rehearsal itself. What was unusual was the dancers' visibility to those passing by the Kolben Dance Company studios.

Since the company renovated its premises in the centre of Jerusalem, installing picture windows that let passers-by see the rehearsals, ultra-orthodox Jews in the locality have waged a campaign against what they call the "indecency" of the women dancers.

They have demanded that the company close the blinds to conceal the women, banging on the windows and yelling through the glass whenever it has not complied.

Last week the company took a stand. It raised the blinds for an informal performance of Babel and the dancers continue to rehearse in full view."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/27/jerusalem-d...
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. Israeli women fight back against Jerusalem billboard vandals
Women in UK and US urged to send photographs of themselves to counter ultra-orthodox campaign against images of women

<snip>

"Jewish women in the Britain and the US are being urged to send photographs of themselves holding signs saying "women should be seen and heard" in a campaign against efforts by the ultra-orthodox to remove female images from advertising billboards in Jerusalem.

The New Israel Fund (NIF) is planning to compile the photographs into posters to display in Jerusalem.

Similar posters of Israeli women are being displayed by Yerushalmim, an organisation opposed to religious extremism and gender segregation which is funded by the NIF.

The appeal to British and American Jewish women is to show "this struggle is not just waged by the women of Jerusalem alone. It is the struggle of people of conscience everywhere", says the NIF.

Its appeal follows pressure from extremist ultra-orthodox, or Haredi, Jews on advertisers to remove images of women.

Among the companies which have complied is the Israeli fashion brand Honigman, which cropped a female model's head from its Jerusalem poster displays. Billboards which continue to show images of women have been vandalised."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/02/jerusalem-u...
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
13. Egged to return lines 1 and 2 to Mea Shearim
Service was halted last year after attacks on mixed-gender buses.

<snip>

"Buses are to return to parts of the capitals ultra-Orthodox Mea Shearim neighborhood as soon as next week, a year and a half after Egged stopped operating there due to violence against people and rock-throwing against the buses."

<snip>

"This week, Egged ran a few test-runs to check the response to the resumption of service on the No. 1 and No. 2 lines. Jerusalem police spokesman Shmuel Ben-Ruby said the tests were performed with heavy police security and without violence, though the haredi media reported a few incidents of stone-throwing.

We are happy that the service will be renewed, said Ben-Ruby, who added that negotiations with Egged to resume service started about a month ago.

Resumption of the bus service was one of the major goals of Jerusalem police commander Asst.-Ch. Nisso Shaham, who took up his post in the spring and has repeatedly stressed that Mea Shearim residents are not above the law.

Bus service was halted after extremists repeatedly attacked Egged buses in 2010.

The violence was in response to Eggeds refusal to create mehadrin lines, where men and women are separated. The High Court of Justice has ruled that mehadrin lines are illegal."

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=24767...
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. Number of gender-segregated religious schools in Israel tripled during past decade
In many instances, the separation phenomenon has been taking place in recent years contrary to the Education Ministry's official practices.

<snip>

"Gender segregation is in effect at 65 percent of the state-run religious elementary schools in Israel, according to data obtained by Haaretz from the Education Ministry's elementary school supervision department. The figures show that boys and girls study together in only 140 religious elementary schools around the country, with the remaining schools strictly adhering to absolute gender separation - in some places starting in Grade 1, and elsewhere in Grades 3 or 4.

According to the former head of the Religious Education Administration, Dr. Mati Dagan, the situation just a decade ago was entirely different, with fewer than 25 percent of the religious elementary schools enforcing gender separation.

"Today, we are seeing a phenomenon of the breaking down of the religious-Zionist ideology, which in the past spoke of both this and that - both religious and open, too, to general education," Dagan says. "We are talking about an act of defense against society on the whole, expressed in a depreciation with regard to the issue of integration."

For his part, former Deputy Education Minister Rabbi Michael Melchior speaks of a general trend of radicalization "that is being expressed in a wide range of issues alongside the issue of gender separation and the exclusion of the place of the woman."

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/number-of-gen...
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
15. It's not that women are enemies, it's more like they are taboo, unclean, that sort of thing.
Edited on Mon Dec-05-11 09:15 AM by bemildred
Or maybe it's the extra clean, pure nature of men which must not be sullied, from what I read, the men are endangered by the women, not the other way around, as I usually think of it.

But seriously, if this was some primitive tribe we were talking about here, nobody would be confused about what it is being discussed.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ignorance is funny: Female Adam Sandler spray-painted
<snip>

"The status of women in Israel is a hot topic these days, what with our former president Moshe Katsav going to jail yesterday for rape, with Defense Minister Ehud Barak and IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz joking about singing girls in the army, women sitting at the back of the bus, and ads in Jerusalem and other orthodox neighborhoods where women are not shown. The list goes on.

One of Israels leading bloggers (and a personal favorite), Ido Kenan, got hold of a funny picture on this last topic. It seems that if you want to take Israel back to Medieval times, your cognitive skills will also take step backwards, as this photo aptly demonstrates.

ts a picture of an ad for Adam Sandlers new film, Jack and Jill, taken somewhere in Jerusalem. The talented graffiti artist thought it was best to adhere to his rabbis, and spray painted the face of the woman on the ad.

Little did this ignormaus know, that Sandler plays both the man and the woman in the movie (identical twins)."

http://972mag.com/ignorance-is-funny-%E2%80%9Cfemale%E2... /

(pics at link)
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Lol
Edited on Thu Dec-08-11 05:02 PM by azurnoir
:thumbsup:

but is there anything about crossdressing in the Torah or at in how it can interpreted?
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
18. stuiped fuks...
Edited on Thu Dec-08-11 11:47 PM by pelsar
i don't mind hamas and friends trying to kill me..i get that. But what i have no patience/tolerance for the haredi, the way they live and their endless fight to put us back in to the 16th century......its far more personal.

they mainly produce kids, who live off welfare of the state (more kids more money), contribute little to society, wear clothes that are more suitable for europe (black jackets in the middle east in summer (ok thats just a rant) and are divided up in to cults each following the "teachings" and fatwas of a different rabbi....nothing more than a cult.

and then the kids who can't fit in (surprise?) end up in the west bank where they get an outlet for the pent up energy and and take on the "settlement cult" where they get to have religion, stay within the basic framework and get to go run around the west bank causing trouble.

i'll have to look into this, if any books have been written about the process, probably not since it would really piss off the hared and settlement people....saying that the misfits of the haredi end up in the settlements...



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