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SecularMotion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 11:48 AM
Original message
Excuse religious soldiers from events where women sing
Source: Haaretz.com

Israel Defense Forces soldiers whose religious beliefs don't allow them to listen to women sing should have the right to be excused from attending such events, Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger said in a halakhic ruling disseminated on Monday.

His entry into the fray follows Sunday's comments by IDF Chief Rabbi Rafi Peretz, who expressed support for the religious cadets who walked out of an IDF heritage event several weeks ago after a mixed group of male and female vocalists took the stage. Four of the nine cadets were expelled when they refused to express remorse for their actions.

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/ashkenazi-chi...
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. LOL believers are so ridiculous......
what complete and total nut jobs.
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Oh I SO agree with you...
People are so weak minded and manipulated...this is some more of the stupid.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Who ever said that religion was good for mental health -- ?
Rather than excusing them, they should be offering some reverse brainwashing--!!

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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. What do they do when they fight opponents who have singing women?
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-11 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Maybe their Palestinian enemies could attack them with armies of singing women.
And they would all collapse from the vapors. :shrug:
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-11 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Devout Muslim men are similarly not permitted to hear a woman sing in front of them
Unless they are related to that woman.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-11 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. So then the Israelis could strike back with their own armies of singing women.
:rofl:
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. How fucking stupid....
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Invisible sky wizard-believers are such fools....
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. What, why isn't this on the Onion. Seriously?
This is a real thing?
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ridiculous. n/t
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-11 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. I am so glad...
that the Middle East is now such a peaceful place that the biggest worry for soldiers is whether they have to hear a *singing woman*!

*sarcasm* of the deepest sort.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. Israeli orchestra drops female singer after pressure from Orthodox subscribers
<snip>

"Bowing to pressure from religious subscribers, the Ashdod-based Israel Andalusian Orchestra has removed a concert from its subscription series featuring a female singer.

In an announcement to subscribers regarding the new concert season, the orchestra management said it was aware that there are members of the public who refrain from listening to women sing, and are therefore offering the concert featuring a woman singer as a separate option for those who are interested.

Many observant Orthodox Jewish men refrain from listening to women sing, as a violation of Jewish religious law, halakha. Haaretz has learned that the orchestra received complaints from concertgoers who threatened to cancel their subscriptions over the woman singer featured in the subscription series."

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israeli-orche...
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-11 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. That's pathetic...
If those misogynists don't want to listen to a woman sing, the solution is easy. They can stay away instead of making it so that the vast majority of people who aren't sexist can enjoy a concert where women aren't banned....
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-11 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. ....
:thumbsup:
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-11 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
11. oops...
Edited on Thu Oct-06-11 02:15 AM by pelsar
this will be the "death of israel".....let them take over and get their way, israel will look no different than any other theocratic regime. just a fun fact, though i don't know the exact details (and the devil is in the details) a TV report had the budget for the haridi community being as much as the IDF's budget.

Obviously there will be a lot of play as to the definitions of how the money is defined, but clearly "its a lot of money" going to support our versions of the muslim brotherhood.

the scenario:
First our versions of the muslim brotherhood will slowly advance their cause, within the govt and army (already started) and then we'll get a turkey like govt and soon after that......we'll follow abbas system of deferring elections and have our over version of Iran.
____

coalition govts while nice in theory.suck in practice when the percentage of representation (to include all of the voices) is low.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Israelis the example I usually cite as to why I'm not an enthusiast of proportional representation
When was Shas last out of power?

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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. 2005 was the last time Shas was out of power
They've only been in existence since the mid 80's.
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. this isn't shas...
the settler movement has the claws in the various parties and govt organizations throughout the govt ministries

the proportional govt while nice in theory, as everyone gets a say, the reality is more of blackmail than anything else. Its far better to have a 3 large parties or 2 with direct representation that this mess we have here.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-11 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. any one who criticizes this practise is an anti-semite.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. No. Those who go far beyond criticism into demonization & Jew hating tropes is almost certainly. n/t
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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-11 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Huh?
Why?
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
22. Top settler rabbi: Soldiers must sooner choose death than suffer women's singing
In radio interview, Rabbi Elyakim Levanon warns IDF of prohibiting soldiers from leaving events which include women's signings, says hopes there are 'wise' people who would prevent such an order.

<snip>

"Israel Defense Forces soldiers should choose death before they remain at army events which include women's singing, a top settler religious leader said in an interview on Thursday.

The comment made by Elyakim Levanon, the rabbi of the West Bank settlement of Elon Moreh, came after earlier this week, 19 reserve major generals sent a letter to Defense Minister Ehud Barak and IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz, imploring them not to allow harm to come to women's service in the army as a result of religious soldiers' demands.

The reserve officers indicated that their appeal comes in response to a series of recent events, including the boycotting of military ceremonies by religious cadets due to women singing.

The petitioners warned in their letter about harm caused to the motivation of women to serve in the army, as well as to what they termed damage to "the fundamental values of Israeli society."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/top-settler-rabbi-...
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
23. The ultra-Orthodox are changing the face of the IDF
The former IDF rabbi was right about the reservist generals who have protested what they see as extremist religious trends within the army: This isn't the army they used to know.

<snip>

"The 19 reservist major generals who signed the letter to Chief of Staff Benny Gantz on Monday, warning of extremist religious trends in the Israel Defense Forces, "were in the army long ago," Rabbi Avichai Rontzki declared this week. Brig. Gen. (res. ) Rontzki, who was chief army rabbi until a year and a half ago, claimed that the veteran officers don't know what the IDF is like anymore. "Things are different nowadays," he explained.

The signatories, who were prompted to protest by events - such as male soldiers boycotting official ceremonies where women were singing, and the ousting of female staff officers from combat units - are indeed detached from the reality of being in the army today. Much has changed since people like Ori Orr, Menachem Einan and Yeshayahu Gavish were among the top brass.

Orr says he never encountered religious soldiers boycotting events featuring female singers. He certainly never imagined stories such as these, culled randomly from the media this week: about the IDF gradually adopting stricter (kasher lemehadrin ) dietary standards (from the army's weekly Bamahane ); about Rabbi Eli Sadan, head of the pre-military academy in Eli, lecturing about the "dedication and courage" of Baruch Goldstein and Yigal Amir (Yedioth Ahronoth ); and about the IDF Education Corps' directive that soldiers not attend the annual memorial rally for Yitzhak Rabin (Haaretz ).

When it comes to relations between religious and secular soldiers, it seems that indeed, this is no longer the army we used to know. As if we blinked and the army changed."

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/the-ultra-ort...
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. Barak, IDF Chief caught on tape joking about women, demand tape not be aired
Defense Minister and IDF Chief Benny Gantz joke about the controversial issue of women singing in the army; Gantz to Channel 2 reporter: If you air this, it will be your last piece.

<snip>

"Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Benny Gantz ordered reporters to refrain from publishing remarks made concerning female soldiers during a visit to an army drill in Israel's North on Tuesday.

The comments were made during a Golani Brigade drill, when, seemingly unaware that there were cameras in the vicinity, the two top officials together with the commander of the Golani Brigade - joked about the issue of women serving in the army.

After Gantz noticed reporters from Army Radio and Channel 2, he turned to them and asked them not to report the conversation. Gantz told the Army Radio reporter to shelf the recording, and threatened the Channel 2 reporter that if the footage airs it would be his last piece.

Yet despite the army chiefs warnings, the video was released. In it, Barak asks: Who are the girls here? From the battalion or the brigade? Or from the division? Gantz replied: They sing during the break. During the break they start to sing.

Golani commander Ofek Buchris then said that there is no problem for them to sing, solo, everything will be fine. Barak said theres Dana from the ministers communication here, shes from a moshav, she can sing without uniform, to which Buchris replied: As long as shes without uniform and with clothes its fine.

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