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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:28 PM
Original message
Bin Laden lessons for Israel
<snip>

Israel should stop apologizing

Israel can draw several lessons here: In order to kill enemy leaders while the world says nothing or lauds the killing, one needs to be a great power. We were condemned when we eliminated Hamas Ahmad Yassin and the Iraqi reactor, and we were warned not to assassinate Arafat.

The Americans assassinated bin Laden, tried to kill Hitler, and also hunted and eliminated Saddam Hussein, yet nobody said a word. For every targeted elimination carried out by Israel, we were hit with numerous condemnations and protests, yet the daily US surgical strikes in Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan Libya and Iraq are met with silence. Every time we unintentionally harm civilians, the world raises a hue and cry, yet if it happens in Libya, Iraq, Serbia or Kosovo nobody protests.

A second lesson: When we are accused, smeared and slandered, we should dare to complain, openly compare our actions with those of others fighting terror, and initiate debates in the UN general assembly, Security Council, and Human Rights Council, even if we dont achieve immediately success. If we bombard them with our arguments and present evidence to all, ultimately something will be grasped by global public opinion, where we are used to retreat, apologize and defend ourselves.

The weak and apologizing will always lose its pride and credibility, as opposed to the cheeky nobleman who constantly blames others, just like the mad Arab rulers which the world rushes to appease, until theyrise up against the West as well, and only then the world turns on them: See the case of Gaddafi, Assad and their comrades.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4063858,00.ht...
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whosinpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Show me one article
Of apology by Israel over extra-judicial assassinations....just one.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Peres apologizes for Shehadeh hit
Foreign Minister Shimon Peres publicly apologized yesterday for the tragic outcome in terms of civilian casualties in the killing of Hamas military-wing leader Salah Shehadeh at his home in Gaza City early Tuesday morning.

Peres, who appeared on several foreign television broadcasts yesterday, stressed that "war causes mistakes and the greatest mistake is the war itself." His comments came as the IDF and the intelligence services had reportedly launched a full inquiry into all the circumstances of the attack which resulted in the death of Shehadeh and another Hamas activist, along with 14 civilians including his wife and daughter and 10 other children.

His comments were echoed by Maj.-Gen. Giora Eiland, chief of military planning, who like Peres, , and others, said the plan to kill Shehadeh had been deferred on several occasions due to the presence of civilians.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jpost/access/141530041.html...
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whosinpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. No - they did not apologize for the hit
Peres apologized that civilians were killed when the one ton bomb was dropped on the apartment.

And besides that - I fail to see how this apology "damaged" Israel or weakened it.

Do you feel Israel suffered as a result?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Is it an extra-judicial assassination if there is an international warrant ?
and the subject resists arrest?
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. What evidence is there that the subject resisted arrest?
Bin Laden was unarmed.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. was OBL alone at the time he was killed?
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I think so, yes
Did you hear otherwise?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. From NPR
Navy SEAL Team 6 used four helicopters to swoop down on the three-story, fortress-like compound early Monday, officials said. A firefight erupted, and bin Laden was shot in the head. Several other adults also were killed, including one of the al-Qaida leader's sons and a woman who reportedly was used as a human shield. One helicopter was lost in the operation because of a mechanical failure and was destroyed by the crew, who flew out in the remaining three choppers, along with bin Laden's remains

http://www.npr.org/2011/05/03/135926537/new-details-eme...


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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. That story has already been corrected
White House corrects narrative on bin Laden death; no human shield

The White House on Tuesday sought to clarify what actually happened when Osama bin Laden was killed in Pakistan on Sunday.

The day after White House counterterrorism chief John Brennan said bin Laden resisted capture and used his wife as a human shield during the firefight that killed him, the White House provided a different version of events.

Bin Laden was not armed and did not employ one of his wives as a human shield, the White House said Tuesday. The wife was not killed in the fight.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/158985-white...

The SEALs then made their way up a staircase, where they ran into one of bin Laden's sons on the way down. The Americans immediately shot and killed the son, who was also unarmed. Once on the third floor, the commandos threw open the door to bin Laden's bedroom. One of bin Laden's wives rushed toward the NAVY SEAL in the door, who shot her in the leg. Then, without hesitation, the same commando turned his gun on bin Laden, standing in what appeared to be pajamas, and fire two quick shots, one to the chest and one to the head.

http://www.slate.com/id/2293111/
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Once the SEALs were fired on it changed the game
most police raids work that way too, there is no evidence that Bin Laden attempted to surrender

I must add however I am surprised by what could be seen as your opinion that Obama did something illegal or questionable here, is that what what you are trying to do?
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. "Forget the U.S. version of the Bin Laden raid. Any adult male found in the compound was a dead man"
Edited on Fri May-06-11 08:28 AM by oberliner
You might want to read this entire article that I excerpted above:

As new details of the raid on Osama Bin Laden's Pakistan compound are reported, apparently based on accounts from the SEAL assault team, crucial elements of the initial U.S. story are being abandoned. Instead, the U.S. is justifying its shoot-to-kill decisions based on the team's state of mind.

http://www.slate.com/id/2293111/
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. unless there is proof OBL attempted to surrender and was shot
anyway what happened was legal and in line with police procedure in the US IMO
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. You wrote earlier that he "resisted arrest"
Do you still believe that?

If so, do you have an accurate information supporting that claim?

Incidentally:

White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan said Monday that bin Laden had died in a firefight, hiding behind women. The White House clarified on Tuesday that bin Laden had not been armed and that he had not used women as a human shield.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0506/Why-an-...

Quite a "clarification" wouldn't you say?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. you seem quite determined to make out that this was an execution however
Edited on Fri May-06-11 02:50 PM by azurnoir
IMO the moment any fire was exchanged arrest was resisted, I believe that is how it works

eta once again unless there is proof that Osama attempted to surrender and was killed regardless this was not an assassination
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Read the article
It was a kill mission.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Bin Laden did not make an attempt to surrender and there was a warrent
Edited on Fri May-06-11 10:06 PM by azurnoir
once shots were fired even one shot what ever the goal of mission was made no difference the SEALs had the right to return fire
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. How do you know this?
Where are you getting your information from?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. do you have proof to the contrary?
you are welcome to keep digging, but nothing I have read including your links states anything that would indicate surrender on Bin Ladens part
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. The rules of engagement all but assured the Al Qaeda leader would be killed.
Osama bin Laden's surrender wasn't a likely outcome in raid, officials say

Officials revise their initial account of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan, saying the rules of engagement all but assured the Al Qaeda leader would be killed.

After saying Monday that the American operatives who raided the Pakistani compound had orders to capture Bin Laden if he gave himself up, U.S. officials Tuesday added an important qualifier: The assault force was told to accept a surrender only if it could be sure he didn't have a bomb hidden under his clothing and posed no other danger.

Bin Laden could have surrendered only "if he did not pose any type of threat whatsoever," White House counter-terrorism chief John Brennan said on Fox television, and if U.S. troops "were confident of that in terms of his not having an IED on his body, his not having some type of hidden weapon or whatever."

Added a senior congressional aide briefed on the rules of engagement: "He would have had to have been naked for them to allow him to surrender."

<snip>

CIA Director Leon E. Panetta said in an interview on PBS television Tuesday that he did not believe Bin Laden had a chance to speak before he was shot in the face and killed.

"To be frank, I don't think he had a lot of time to say anything," Panetta said.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/03/world/la-fg-bin...
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. that isn't proof it is conjecture and you may note the words rules of engagement
Edited on Fri May-06-11 11:13 PM by azurnoir
still not an assassination as presumably Osama had time to raise his hands prior to the SEALs entering his room
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whosinpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. That brings up another question
Edited on Thu May-05-11 02:04 PM by whosinpower
Wasn't there a bounty on his head....25 million for information leading to the capture OR DEATH of Osama Bin Laden?

Maybe I am confused.....

I just checked - I was wrong - it is for information leading to the capture or conviction of Usama bin Laden.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yes there is but it is unclear if anyone will recieve it
Though Osama bin Laden is dead, it is unclear if anyone will receive any of the $25 million reward for his capture. That's due to the confidentiality of the Rewards for Justice Program, an interagency program administered by the State Department Bureau of Diplomatic Security.

"Given the importance of confidentiality to the Rewards for Justice Program, we can't comment on whether anyone has been nominated for a reward or in this or in any given case," said Harry Edwards, a spokesperson for the State Department.

Since its beginning, the program has paid more than $100 million to more than 60 people with information that "prevented international terrorist attacks or helped bring to justice those involved in prior acts," according to the Rewards for Justice website. Most of that money has been paid since the attacks on Sept. 11.

The law that started the program, the 1984 Act to Combat International Terrorism, states that "no rewardmay exceed $25,000,000, except as personally authorized by the Secretary of State."

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/osama-bin-ladens-death-2...
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. The lessons it would seem are get a warrant preferably international and
Edited on Fri May-06-11 10:10 PM by azurnoir
make sure they shoot first

eta IMO- it seems that is being required of me these days
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