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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:46 PM
Original message
The destructive reign of Avigdor Lieberman
Forget the suspicions against him, his conviction of assault; this is a mediocre, destructive politician who has a very meager record after 20 years of work. But we'll always have high regard for him - because Lieberman is us and we are Lieberman.

By Gideon Levy


Take a good look at the tone of the public debate over the attorney general's decision to indict Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman: a mix of appreciation, admiration and groveling. We hear about the "composed" Lieberman, Yvet "the man," the "enigmatic" foreign minister. Lieberman is esteemed even by his opponents. There will always be someone to tell you that this is a "serious man" who behind closed doors is impressive and even moderate, that we are dealing with an unusual, unpredictable politician. Utter nonsense.

Forget the suspicions against him, forget that he has been convicted of assaulting a child; we're dealing here with a mediocre, destructive politician who has a very meager record after 20 years of work. It's true he has translated hate-mongering into electoral success, riding the murkiest of waves. It's true he has sullied Israeli public discourse. It's even true he terrifies the prime minister and is notorious throughout the world. But the real balance of his work is much less impressive than the image built up for him by his supporters and especially by his opponents. The man isn't a man, the enigma's no enigma.

Like certain leaders of Israeli crime families whose image we also cherish and whose power we also boost, we do not ostracize Lieberman at all. In fact, after the attorney general's decision, Lieberman has become the subject of admiration. Whatever for? After all, he is surely Israel's worst foreign minister ever. The country's international standing has slumped to an all-time low on his watch. His diplomatic activity has brought down our relationship with Turkey and worsened Latin America's stance on Israel. Isn't that plenty of damage for two years?

So what's all that appreciation for? For "my promise is a promise"? What promise? Almost nothing has been realized of his election promises. He has been completely useless to his electorate: There is still no civil marriage in Israel, and the civil-union bill ended up as a leftover law, relevant only to a handful of people without religion. He wanted to bring down Hamas, and even insisted on adding a clause on this to the coalition agreement. Two years later, Hamas is stronger than ever, certainly stronger than Lieberman. Some of the dangerous anti-democratic bills he has flaunted have thankfully failed - the investigation of leftist NGOs, for instance.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-destru...
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Its a democracy; they get the politicians they deserve.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Do you think you deserved Bush and Cheney, or that we deserved Thatcher and now deserve Cameron?
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. He is what he is...
The US is going thru a similar bout of nationalistic blindness in the teabagger movement. You can see quite a bit of his style of politics in the Family First and One Nation parties of Australia who thankfully do not hold equivalent current interest, though One Nation about 5 or so years back threatened the same type of national breakout.

L-

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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. The difference is the American voters from what we hear are
suffering 'buyers remorse' I'm not sure the same can be said for Lieberman in Israel
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Really ?


His party has only 15 seats in Knesset, how many GOP/Teabag seats in congress?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. apples and oranges comparing a 2 party system to a 12+ party system
Lieberman party is part of a larger right wing coalition, I'm shocked you didn't know that or why ever would you have made such a post?

there are currently broadly 12 parties represented in the Knesset

more here

This page was last modified on 14 April 2011 at 15:09.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_...
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Did not mean to 'shock' you



But what I posted is true.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. You have no idea what you are talking about
His popularity has been plummeting since 2010 and a majority of Israelis have an unfavorable view of him.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. what presumption- Lieberman's base is in the Israeli Russian community
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 01:22 PM by azurnoir
and much depends on the outcome of investigations int his activities but it should be noted he's been in and out of the Knesset several times

perhaps in the future you should think first and insult later
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. What does that have to do with anything?
The tea party's base is the religious right. So what?

There is no insult here - you are just wrong.

His popularity has flagged and he is disliked by most of the population.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Was Lieberman even broadley popular in the first place?
His popularity is mostly as I said with the Russian community in Israel, and the man appears to be a political 'cat' of sorts meaning he has 'died' several times in the past but manages to find yet another life, much depends on whether or not he winds up in jail
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You said Americans are feeling "buyer's remorse" about tea party candidates
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 06:02 PM by oberliner
But that Israelis are not feeling the same "buyer's remorse" about Lieberman.

My argument is that is not true.

Israelis are feeling a similar buyer's remorse with Lieberman.

Recent polls illustrate this.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. How far that 'remorse' goes depends on the outcome of Liebermans
legal 'troubles'
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. I can see the similarities in US politics, but not the others you mentioned...
Family First were an example of how the proportional representation system for our Senate can result in the votes of a few thousand wackos in one state putting someone like him in the Senate with the possibility of holding the balance of power. But there was never any widespread admiration for him. Family First was the front for US evangelical religious groups and most people were aware they were religious extremists. Pauline Hanson's a bit different in that she did garner some widespread support from those conservatives who thought the Howard govt was going to light on asylum seekers. But there was an even stronger reaction of embarressed horror at the potential danger she did to Australia's relationship with its neigbours and trading partners, especially Asian ones. Even though Hanson never got into a position of power, I'd like to think that many Israelis feel that same embarressed horror when it comes to Lieberman. The closest Australian politician I can think of to Lieberman when it comes to the power they held is Phillip Ruddock as Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs during the Howard era. He did have widespread acceptance and respect amongst the community, which he shouldn't have had. He used to wear an Amnesty International pin when appearing in interviews and at press conferences where he peddled draconian policies towards asylum seekers, including mandatory detention, a system that the UN criticised Australia for during that time. AI asked Ruddock to remove the pin and I think they even cancelled his membership, and as an AI member, I used to get pretty annoyed when I'd see him wear that pin while he spewed his intolerance...

Let's hope that very soon Liebermann will be a thing of the past. He's a revolting man...
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. Disgusting man
Hope he ends up 'inside'.

As I've said before, extremes of pure proportional representation (Israel) or its complete lack in a multi-party system (UK) both tend to produce harmful and unrepresentative results.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. "Globes" poll: Liberman strengthening
The Attorney General's decision to indict Minister of Foreign Affairs Avigdor Liberman seems to have boosted his popularity.

<snip>

"It seems that the recommendation to indict Minister of Foreign Affairs Avigdor Liberman has done him a favor, at least for now. His party, Israel Beiteinu, would win two more Knesset seats to 18, according to a poll by the Rafi Smith Research Institute for "Globes". It appears that Attorney General Yehuda Weinstein's decision to indict Liberman not only failed to weaken him, but actually strengthened him and helped to boost his popularity by 20% since the last elections.

Liberman's strengthening among his supporters is a ringing slap in the face for Israel's law enforcement establishment. As far as the public is concerned, Liberman is worthy of admiration.

The three additional Knesset seats that Israel Beiteinu has gained in polls since the 2009 elections are more than half way to the goal Liberman set - to win 20 seats in the next elections. According to the Rafi Smith survey, Liberman is serious. He is not merely mouthing slogans; as he puts it, he keeps his word.

It is possible to attribute Israel Beiteinu's rising support to the recommendation to indict, and it is possible the Liberman is winning support because of his actions in the government, but one thing is clear: Liberman is now the strongman of the coalition. The chances of establishing a government without him after the next elections verges on zero."

http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=...
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
17.  he received the post as Israel's FM after being convicted of assulting a child
Edited on Thu May-05-11 02:59 PM by azurnoir
eta details

On September 24, 2001, Lieberman acknowledged in the Jerusalem District Court that he attacked a twelve-year-old youth from Tekoa, who had hit his son. The incident occurred in December, 1999 in the Nokdim settlement. His son told him that three boys hit him. Lieberman located one of the boys in a trailer and hit him in the face. After the boy fell and was injured, the defendant grabbed him by the shirt-collar and arm, took him back to his parents home in Tekoa and threatened that he would attack him again if he returned to Nokdim.<109><110> He was charged with assaulting and threatening him. Lieberman was convicted based on his own confession in the context of a plea bargain. His attorney asked the judges, in the context of the arrangement, to restrict his punishment to a fine amid the defendants promise that he will not commit such an act in the future. The judge ultimately ruled that Lieberman must pay the child a compensation of 10,000 shekels, and an additional fine of 7,500 shekels.

This page was last modified on 4 May 2011 at 11:22.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avigdor_Lieberman#Convicti...
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. He is a thug
An embarrassment to Israel.

He represents the worst of that country.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. True but he does not appear to be losing any popularity either n/t
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Completely wrong
His popularity has nosedived of late.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. not according to the poll in comment #16 n/t
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