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Israeli Is Killed in the West Bank

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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 04:53 AM
Original message
Israeli Is Killed in the West Bank
JERUSALEM Palestinian police shot dead one Israeli and wounded four others early Sunday after the Israelis surreptitiously visited a Jewish holy site inside a Palestinian controlled area, according to officials on both sides.

The shooting occurred outside Josephs Tomb in the West Bank city of Nablus after three carloads of Israeli Jews visited the religious site to pray without coordinating their move through the Israeli army. Twice-monthly trips to the tomb have been organized with army escorts for the past four years without incident.

Palestinian security officials detained Palestinian policemen responsible for the shooting. The dead man was identified as Ben Yosef Livnat, a 24-year-old father of four from Jerusalem and a nephew of Limor Livnat, Israels Minister of Culture and Sport from the Likud Party. An aide to the minister confirmed the identity.

After the shooting, Palestinian youths set small fires outside the tomb. Israeli and Palestinian security officials extinguished them and restored order. A joint investigation into the days events was under way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/25/world/middleeast/25mi...
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kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Shooting at un-armed civilians is always inexcusable but.......
Shooting at un-armed civilians is always inexcusable but both sides in this conflict appear to have less-than-civilized values......

How many Gaza civilians, scavengers, goatherds etc have been shot simply because they were suspiciously close to the border fence?

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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. a bit more detail from Maan the Israeli's were armed
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 12:27 PM by azurnoir
"The Palestinian Authority has formed an investigating committee headed by Palestinian military intelligence and security department officials," he said, noting that field investigations had begun and that guards at the scene had been detained for questioning.

Palestinian officers told Ma'an earlier that settlers had pulled their weapons and pointed them at the PA security, which had informed the settler group that they were not permitted to be in the area without an Israeli military guard.

Both Palestinian security and Israel's military confirmed no coordination attempts had been made for an escort for the settler group.

Security forces first fired warning shots into the air, according to Palestinian officials, while a statement from Israel's army said Palestinian officials said shots were fired "after identifying suspicious movements."

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=381521
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. No they weren't
No evidence (or even claim) that the person killed was armed.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. so you are saying Maan is lying? the statement from Maan the group of settlers were armed
something that could hardly be called unusual, there is nothing in Maan's article or my comment that states specifically that the man who was shot was armed however members of the group of Israeli's he was with apparently were armed
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Jerusalem Post: "The Israeli worshipers were unarmed"
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 02:29 PM by oberliner
This is a terrorist attack from every point of view. There was no provocation here. The Palestinian police knew exactly whom they were shooting at. They knew perfectly well that they (the worshipers) were unarmed. They might have even known the person, Dayan told The Jerusalem Post on Sunday.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?...

The IDF believes the PA policemen were fully aware that the men they fired on were Israeli worshipers who were unarmed and posed no threat despite entering the area without proper security coordination.

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=21773...

So you are saying the Jerusalem Post is lying?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. maan's story has been updated
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 03:35 PM by azurnoir
"They threw stones and carried out provocative acts against Palestinians," A-Bakri told Ma'an.

When police were made aware of the incidents, officers were deployed to the area and set up a checkpoint near the road, firing into the air in an attempt to disperse the group of settlers, he said.

Israeli security officials speaking on condition of anonymity told AFP that an initial investigation showed the men had tried to bypass a Palestinian patrol in a parked jeep, prompting the police to fire first in the air and then open fire on their vehicles.

When the shots were fired, Al-Bakri continued, settlers returned to their cars rapidly, driving into the plastic barrier set up on the road, fleeing the scene.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=381521

quite frankly the Israeli security have shot Palestinians in similar circumstances
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. BTW your title line is NOT the title of either JPost article
the first is title is

Netanyahu to PA: Take harsh steps against Nablus shooter

e any authority and is concerning the complete attempt to delegitimize the rights of any Palestinian security involved as seen here

He dismissed all claims that the Palestinians felt threatened or did not know who their victims were. Breslev worshipers often go to the tomb without prior coordination with the IDF, he said.

Meanwhile, MK Danny Danon (Likud) called on the US to reconsider its funding of the Palestinian security forces, as well as the training exercises that it does with them. He passed this request on to Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL), Chairman of the US House Foreign Affairs Committee.


well it seems Israel is losing no time in turning this incident into political advantage

and the second link entitled

Thousands attend funeral of Nablus shooting victim

as you can see I have included the 2 paragraghs prior to the one you posted along with that one it seems the Israeli citizens aren't talking

Ben Yosef Livnat was killed when a vehicle he was in was shot at by a Palestinian Authority policeman as he and a group of other worshipers were exiting the city from prayer services held at Joseph's Tomb. Magen David Adom said one person was in serious condition, one in moderate condition and two others in light condition. The four were detained by police for obstructing the investigation and refusing to tell authorities their version of events. Police have requested the Haifa Magistrate's Court extend the remand of three of the injured

According to an IDF initial investigation, three vehicles containing Breslev worshipers entered the tomb in violation of a decree by the IDF's Central Command prohibiting entry of Israelis into Area A without prior coordination. A verbal confrontation ensued between the worshipers and the Palestinian policemen, who called on them to leave the area. The Breslev vehicles failed to stop at a checkpoint outside of the religious site, the investigation found. The policemen then fired shots in the air. The worshipers tried to flee the area, and their vehicles came under fire, killing Livnat, 24, father of four, and wounding four others.

Following its own initial investigation, The IDF believes the PA policemen were fully aware that the men they fired on were Israeli worshipers who were unarmed and posed no threat despite entering the area without proper security coordination.


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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. By the way, it's a quote from within the body of the article
Links and citations provided.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. along with additional citations from the article that I provided n/t
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. It seems to a quote from Likud MK Danon n/t
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Whereas the Ma'an statement is unsourced
Interesting.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Jibrin Al-Bakri is the source he is referred to in the snip, but here same link as above

Nablus governor Jibrin Al-Bakri gave an account of the incident following a police investigation, saying that at 5:45 a.m., five cars carrynig 30 settlers from Jerusalem entered Joseph's Tomb, then split off into two groups.

it did not strike you as odd that Israeli authorities had the Israeli 'victims' in custody yesterday because they would not talk?
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. No he isn't
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 05:49 PM by oberliner
Nowhere in the quotes included in the article does he say anyone was armed.
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