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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 04:55 AM
Original message
Goldstone denies intention to retract UN report - Jerusalem Post


Goldstone denies intention to retract UN report


By JPOST.COM STAFF
04/06/2011 07:39

In AP interview, judge refutes Yishai's claims that he promised to seek nullification for his report on Operation Cast

South African jurist Richard Goldstone denied Interior Minister Eli Yishai's claim that he planned to work to nullify his report on the the IDF's Operation Cast Lead in 2009, the Associated Press reported Wednesday.

Goldstone, in an interview with the Associated Press, said that Yishai had called to thank him for his Washington Post op-ed piece, but that the two never discussed the actual report. Goldstone said that he had responded to Yishai's thanks, telling him his utmost concern was for "truth, justice, and human rights."

snip:

As for his report on the 2009 Gaza offensive, Goldstone reiterated that the "intentionality on the part of Israel" required review, and that "domestic investigation could lead to further reconsideration." The judge concluded, however, that no part of the report needed reconsideration at the present time.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=2153...



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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. I thought it sounded a bit dodgy when I first read about it n/t
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. now I wonder will this mean that Judge Goldstone is back to being a bad person again? Or is he still
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 05:04 AM by Douglas Carpenter
honorable - but not quite as honorable as he was yesterday - but not quite dishonorable like he was last week?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'm having trouble keeping up with all the about turns! n/t
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. There have been none
In fact, folks on every side of this issue have been extremely consistent.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. I've seen some....
But kudos to you for being extremely consistent...
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
51. Hi Violet!! havn't seen you in awhile
:hi:
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. This whole episode concerning an editorial puts a light on a weakness
of 'modern' reporting it has become somewhat of a 'telephone game'. In the past few days Goldstone's piece in the Washington Post has grown from a relatively mild piece who's main new point it seemed to me was that Israel was in the process of investigating some of the allegations made against it in Goldstones original report and Hamas was not doing any investigating of its own actions nor any of the other groups in Gaza, and one that had been made previously that if Israel had but co-operated in the first place there may not have been as many allegations against Israel, to a complete absolution of Israel from any guilt and a retraction of his report, which it was not by any means.
In reading subsequent articles on the subject it seem that there a gap between what the article actually said and what is said about what the article said
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. absolutely!! there is a huge gap between what Judge Goldstone said in the oped piece and
what was reported that he said. Unfortunately, the political noise machine jumped into action very fast and completely distorted his oped piece and managed to create a bigger story than the original Goldstone Report itself.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. No gap actually
He wrote the piece himself. Any reporting on it has cited Goldstone's own words.

Nothing was distorted.

The only "noise" created was by Goldstone who went out of his way to get this piece published in a US newspaper (first the NY Times and then the Washington Post).
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. "The judge concluded, however,that no part of the report needed reconsideration at the present time"
Claims that he was retracting part or even all of the U.N. Report and bogus claims that he was personally seeking to have the report nullified are about as big a distortion as anyone could imagine.



"South African jurist Richard Goldstone denied Interior Minister Eli Yishai's claim that he planned to work to nullify his report on the the IDF's Operation Cast Lead in 2009, the Associated Press reported Wednesday."

"The judge concluded, however, that no part of the report needed reconsideration at the present time. "



http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=2153...
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Really IMO that has been the case with Goldstone's report
from the day it made public, not what it said but was said about what it said, I doubt that many of commentators on the report have actually read it in it's entirety, it is a 'lugubrious' 500+ page report, mostly in 'legalese' and rather dry reading at that ie it's boring.
However it seems to me that the problem is to some is that it found any fault with IDF's conduct, when in fact Goldstone himself demanded the focus of the mission be changed from being entirely focused on Israel to being on all parties involved on both sides and that he found fault with both sides.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
52. /
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Other way around
Began as a startling revelation and some (Mondoweiss, MJ, etc) are trying to spin it into a "relatively mild piece" - with some folks here more than eager to take that bait.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. If I remember correctly what I said in the first was that there was
really nothing much new in Goldstone's editorial
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-11 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
53. +1
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-11 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
54. Yes, you were among the earliest spinners
MJ and the Mondoweissers took another moment or two.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Let me clarify here I said on Saterday that it was as you put it a "relatively mild piece"
this is as far as I know before Mondoweiss or MJ Rosenberg had commented on it, now I not read either of then today but as of yesterday the descriptions of the reactions of those bloggers such as "they can't handle it" would have indicated that they felt it was anything but mild, as for my part I think I must have reread the WP piece 6 times to see if I was missing something.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I guess "The Dersh" is going to have to kick Goldstone out of "the fold" again. nt
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Alan Dershowitz: Goldstone needs to do teshuva
Judge Richard Goldstones recent acknowledgement that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy by Israel during Operation Cast Lead could be a game changer if Goldstone continues to do the right thing.

After reassessing his conclusions, Goldstone now has a responsibility to report them to the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court and to other officials who are considering acting on the basis of the Goldstone Report.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/alan-dershowitz-gol...
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Can I call them or what?
I guess the judge hasn't "repented" enough yet.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Actually think it demonstrates the opposite of what you were saying
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 04:50 PM by oberliner
Have not yet seen any positive word about Goldstone from Dershowitz.

He has remained pretty consistent in that regard.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Well I was going on hearsay, it's true:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

But this sounds like it:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4051190,00.ht...

The money quote being: "Alan Dershowitz: Jews must always accept those who repent back into the fold", and:

Meanwhile, Professor Alan Dershowitz who has battled against the global media, speaking out against the report, expressed pleasure towards Goldstone's rebuttal, in an interview given to Ynet from South Africa, Dershowitz said that he wasn't looking to "settle an account" with Goldstone and the damages caused by his report.

Stating that that "this is a good start", he added that "Jews must always accept those who repent back into the fold and this is the case here".


And in fairness to Mr Dershowitz, he seems to have just been a bit premature.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Your bolded excerpt is identical to the sentiments expressed in the article I posted
They both address his belief that Goldstone would have to repent to be accepted back into the fold.

That is basically the thurst of his whole op-ed, concluding with:

But the Jewish tradition of teshuvah, or repentance, demands that we look forward, not backward. It also demands that the person seeking teshuvah do everything in his power to right the wrong he has committed.

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. So he was quoted accurately then. That's good. nt
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. What do you mean?
I'm trying to find where you think he changed his tune on Goldstone.

It does not seem that he did from what we've posted.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. I mean I'm glad he was quoted accurately.
It's true you and I do not agree about interpretation of these events, about Mr Dershowitz' feelings and attitudes, but I don't see any need to try to fix that.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Has he not been quoted accurately before?
I guess I don't get why you care that he was quoted accurately.

I also would respectful ask you to try to help me understand where your interpretation comes from.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Sigh.
"Has he not been quoted accurately before?" I would think so, him being a controversial and outspoken figure, but I am far from omniscient. He certainly has been in a number of energetic disagreements about various things with people who were similarly energetically opposed to his views.

"I guess I don't get why you care that he was quoted accurately." Sound thinking there, although I do care about accurate reporting, I would not get very worked up about someone mis-representing Dershowitz.

"I also would respectful ask you to try to help me understand where your interpretation comes from." I'm not interpreting anything, I just think Alan was a bit premature in thinking Goldstone had radically reformed his views.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
14. What is OBVIOUS here is that the judge was trying to be fair, evenhanded.
To give credit where credit was due. He had no intention to repudiate anything, or to retract anything, or to exonerate anybody, or to take any side.

I would be curious to know what he expected when he published the WaPo update, but I would guess that he did not bother to expect anything at all, he just felt that fairness demanded that he acknowledge what he saw as efforts to address problems, so it was an update or addition to what was already said in the report.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I wondered the same thing what did he expect?
maybe he gave it the benefit of a doubt, but really by now he should have known better
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I think he is a judge, and he judges, consequences be damned.
That was pretty clear when he issued the report in the first place, if you think about it. And having already been through that, and his role in S. Africa, one must assume he is not still naive about what happens when you state your case in public about controversial issues. So I think that is the way to bet. We get so used to attack dogs that are bought and sold to the highest bidder or "the end justifies the means" partisan advocates, that we are all a bit disoriented by a guy who has integrity. I had considered that he might be "getting old", but that does not seem to be the case here.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. well it seems ther will be 'consequences'
Israel is starting a 'quiet' diplomatic campaign to quietly force the UN to throw out the report and a quiet class action civil lawsuit against Goldstone for presenting a distorted picture of Israel that harms Israel
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. As I said elsewhere, I doubt it, I think this will all prove to be noise. nt
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. I think that is a very reasonable analysis
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. Of course it's obvious as it's ONLY one little tiny part that requires correction in the report...
Only "one" correction?

That "one correction" as Goldstone puts it, reverses THE entire premise and theme of the report. Almost everything else spins the "proof" for this central theme. When the most essential and slanderous conclusion of the report is negated, all that is left are the polemical contortions that prop up this false premise.

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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
30. Where now for the Goldstone report?
**John Dugard is professor of law at the University of Pretoria, emeritus professor of the University of Leiden and former UN special rapporteur on human rights in the occupied Palestinian territory.


Posted by John Dugard - 06 April 2011 09:47

In short, there are no new facts that could possibly have led Richard Goldstone to change his mind about the UN-backed investigation into Israel and the conflict in Gaza.

Snip* Goldstone does not, like his critics, describe his op-ed piece as a retraction of the Goldstone report. This is not surprising. Richard Goldstone is a former judge and he knows full well that a fact-finding report by four persons, of whom he was only one, like the judgment of a court of law, cannot be changed by the subsequent reflections of a single member of the committee.

This can be done only by the full committee itself with the approval of the body that established the fact-finding mission the UN Human Rights Council. And this is highly unlikely, in view of the fact that the three other members of the committee Professor Christine Chinkin of the London School of Economics, Ms Hina Jilani, an advocate of the Supreme Court of Pakistan, and Colonel Desmond Travers, formerly an officer in the Irish Defence Forces have indicated that they do not share Goldstone's misgivings about the report.

Fight for accountability . . . from Israel and Hamas
Last month the Goldstone report was referred to the General Assembly of the United Nations by the Human Rights Council with the request that it be referred by the Assembly to the Security Council, and that the Security Council submit the matter to the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, as it has done in the cases of Darfur and Libya.

Doubtless the General Assembly will refer the report to the Security Council, despite Goldstone's op-ed, but it will end there as the customary United States veto will ensure that Israel remains unaccountable.

The Goldstone report is a historical milestone. It is a credible, reasoned, comprehensive and thoroughly researched account of atrocities war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by Israel in the course of Operation Cast Lead, and of war crimes committed by Hamas in the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel. It is a serious attempt to secure the accountability of a state that has for too long been allowed by the west to behave in a lawless manner.

That the credibility of the Goldstone report has been undermined by Goldstone's strange op-ed in the Washington Post cannot be denied.

Although the report was authored by four experts with the backing of a team from the office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, it has undoubtedly come to be associated with the name of Richard Goldstone. Inevitably the misgivings he has expressed about his own role in the report will weaken its impact as an historical record of Operation Cast Lead.

Already, the Israeli government has expressed delight at what it construes to be a retraction of the report, and demanded both a contrite apology from Goldstone and a refutation of the report by the United Nations. Predictably the US department of state has welcomed Goldstone`s op-ed, and one fears that European governments will find in it an excuse to justify their continued support for Israel.

Richard Goldstone has devoted much of his life to the cause of accountability for international crimes. It is sad that this champion of accountability and international criminal justice should abandon the cause in such an ill-considered but nevertheless extremely harmful op-ed.

in full: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/04/...
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. John Dugard
is hardly an unbiased observer.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Dugard is a real prize...
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 07:27 PM by shira
In his opinion, terror acts "must be understood as being a painful but inevitable consequence of colonialism, apartheid or occupation..."

A racist who justifies Palestinian terror as an instinctive animal-like, sub-human reaction to occupation, settlements, etc. It's not their fault, it's Israel who made them that way. Sami Kuntar? Itamar massacre? Whatever.....all that's Israel's fault.

:eyes:

Imagine someone trying to justify Baruch Goldstein's actions the same way, as a painful, inevitable consequence of Palestinian acts towards Jews the last 80 years....
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Don't do that, excerpt only the part you prefer.
You don't agree with him, fine..but let what he said stand in whole.

The report, posted on the UN Human Rights Council's website, says that while Palestinian terrorist acts are deplorable, "they must be understood as being a painful but inevitable consequence of colonialism, apartheid, or occupation."

http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2008/02/27/un...
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. He's still justifying terror and blaming it on Israel, not the terrorists.
There's no defending that or defending Goldstone's 575 pages of libel.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. He is doing nothing of the kind, but don't let that stop you from posting to the contrary.
The content of the Goldstone report can't be defended, that is why Israel and the US want it to disappear..the truth hurts.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Riiiiight. I'm not sure you believe the stuff you're writing.
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 09:11 PM by shira
The reason the US wants the report to disappear is because it's a clumsy, irresponsible worthless piece of dishonest propaganda crafted by UNHRC serial human rights abusers like Libya and Saudi Arabia.
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. That hardly changes the meaning nt
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. It absolutely does, and the statement was not presented in and by itself as the sole explanation. n/
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. According to you. n/t
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Yes , thats why it was I who posted that.


Myself and other informed people.

He has a history of Bias against the Jewish State going back MANY YEARS : (this from 2004)


ADL to U.N.: Dismiss Official with Overt Bias Against Israel


New York, NY, October 15, 2004 The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today called on United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan and High Commissioner for Human Rights Louise Arbour to immediately dismiss John Dugard, the U.N. Special Rapporteur for Human Rights, for his "clearly demonstrated bias against the State of Israel." Dugard is the author of the report, "Question of the violation of human rights in the occupied Arab territories, including Palestine," a copy of which was obtained by ADL, and is to be presented to the U.N. General Assembly in late October.

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/UnitedNations_94/4575_94.ht...
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I suppose many people believe they are informed by the ADL
on this subject. I have no idea why they don't wonder why there are no direct
references to Dugard's report. In the Op you posted, you accept as fact the
wall was constructed where it was for security only and had nothing to do with taking
possession of Palestinian land?

If so, not sure what else I can say here.


Interview: John Dugard

Former UN human rights official says the world body must do more for Palestinian rights.

On December 10, 1948, the UN General Assembly (GA) adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), which was seen as a considerable achievement in the post-war era.

However, the UDHR was immediately put to the test in May of that year when the State of Israel was formed, creating one of the largest refugee crises since the war the Palestinian exodus and the 'Nakba'.

In the 60 years since, the UN has worked with Palestinian refugees and provided humanitarian assistance through its various organisations.

John Dugard, a South African professor of international law, was the UN's special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories from 2001 until 2008.

He has served as judge ad hoc in the International Court of Justice and since 1997, as a member of the International Law Commission of the UN.

In 2000, he became its special rapporteur on Diplomatic Protection until 2006.
Following the start of the second Palestinian Intifada in late 2000, Dugard was appointed as chairman of a UN Commission on Human Rights.

Al Jazeera spoke with Dugard about the human rights and relief situation in Palestine.

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/humanrightsun/2008/1...
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-11 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #30
55. thanks for that article
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
34. Hes probably biding his time :
Former ambassador to the UN Danny Gillerman, who also spoke with Goldstone, added that the judge would not act immediately to do so.

He wants to "wait for the dust to settle" in the aftermath of an op-ed he penned in the Washington Post last week, in which he wrote that Israel, contrary to his famed UN report, did not target civilians in Operation Cast Lead as a matter of policy, AP reported.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx ?...

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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. your quote is from an article that was prior to the one in the OP
and was what someone said Goldstone said, just as the claim that Goldstone said he would nullify his report was

here is a link to the article containing the quote from Danny Gillerman, the one you posted simply goes to todays JPost

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?...
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Exactly , you got it:
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 11:18 PM by King_David

Even before Goldstone said anything the ambassador said hes going to take his time.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. so you think in the future he will nullify the report?
he's just waiting around right now, but he is not the only signatory on the report but you believe he alone can nullify it or is it that he is the only one that matters?

I will give you this at least you seem to admit that Yishai was lying and your word parsing abilities are improving as the parsing of Goldstones statement shows
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. He can't, can he?
Or is that your point?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. certainly a move to 'nullify' the report from Goldstone would go a ways towards that end
but alone he can not do it, however in the 121/2 hours since I made my original comment something else has come to light

US plotting strategy to have Goldstone report withdrawn

The United States has been clear from the outset that we believe that report was gravely and fundamentally flawed, that it completely unfairly drew conclusions about Israels intentions and conduct, Rice told the US House Foreign Affairs Committee, adding that the Obama administration would like to see this entire Goldstone proposition disappear.

To that end, the US has been discussing what procedural steps could be taken, including halting followup actions against Israel being considered at the Security Council and other venues on the basis of the report.

Rice noted that the specific tactics had yet to be determined.


http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?...

one wonder just what strategy will be used and how far if this is indeed true will the US go to protect Israel, will Obama resort to the Bushian tactic of threatening to withhold all UN funding, the GOP is already promoting that for reasons unrelated to Israel at this moment, but that all could change when a political opportunity such as this comes up, and lastly is doing all of this on Israel's behalf really good for the US on a global level or simply good for some political careers within the US?
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cqo_000 Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #49
63. US Envoy Criticizes Proposed Cuts of US Funds to UN
"There's no question that when the United States is in debt to the United Nations, when we fail to meet our treaty obligations to pay our assessed contributions, that our influence is diminished, our standing is injured, and our ability to pursue important initiatives that advance U.S. national security and U.S. national interests is gravely undermined," Rice said.

http://www.ncrumors.com/?p=5169
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. '' but you believe he alone can nullify it ''


Why you asking me ?

You just posted that you know what I believe
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
56. Goldstone report: Statement issued by members of UN mission on Gaza war

Hina Jilani, Christine Chinkin and Desmond Travers guardian.co.uk,

Thursday 14 April 2011 08.17 BST Article history

Statement issued by members of the UN fact-finding mission to Gaza, May-September 2009


In recent days some articles and comments appearing in the press with respect to the report of the United Nations (UN) fact-finding mission on the Gaza conflict of 2008-2009 have misrepresented facts in an attempt to delegitimise the findings of this report and to cast doubts on its credibility.

The mission that comprised four members, including Justice Richard Goldstone as its chair, came to an end when it presented its report to the UN human rights council in September 2009. The report of the mission is now an official UN document and all actions taken pursuant to its findings and recommendations fall solely within the purview of the United Nations general assembly which, along with the human rights council, reviewed and endorsed it at the end of 2009.

Aspersions cast on the findings of the report, nevertheless, cannot be left unchallenged. Members of the mission, signatories to this statement, find it necessary to dispel any impression that subsequent developments have rendered any part of the mission's report unsubstantiated, erroneous or inaccurate.

We concur in our view that there is no justification for any demand or expectation for reconsideration of the report as nothing of substance has appeared that would in any way change the context, findings or conclusions of that report with respect to any of the parties to the Gaza conflict. Indeed, there is no UN procedure or precedent to that effect.

in full: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/14/gol...
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Maybe they do not like it, BUT
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 03:35 PM by King_David
'Three members of the UN fact-finding mission on the Gaza war of 2008-09 have turned on the fourth member and chair of the group, Richard Goldstone, accusing him in all but name of misrepresenting facts in order to cast doubt on the credibility of their joint report.'




http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/14/un-gaza-rep...



in REALITY it is ONLY important what Goldstone has to say.He is the one that lent credibility to the report.
They especially chose him because he was Jewish too.





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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Why do you think he agreed to participate then?
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. I have heard many theories


A lot of people love to sit in Judgement of Israel. Libya,Zimbabwe to name just 2 recent countries.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. You don't have your own opinion then as to why Goldstone participated, ok. n/t
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Yicchus
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. That's an interesting take on it. n/t
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #56
64. U.S. Senate urges UN to rescind Goldstone's Gaza report
Resolution 138 passes unanimously, calls on members of Human Rights Council to 'reflect the author's repudiation off the Goldstone report's central findings', and asks UN chief Ban to 'do all in his power to redress the damage to Israel's reputation'.
By Natasha Mozgovaya

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/u-s-senat...
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
65. A license to kill
Op-ed: Concept of innocent civilians largely wiped from Israels public consciousness, conscience

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4058068,00.ht...

<snip>

"One does not need to read the rebuttal by the three judges who served on the Goldstone panel to understand that that the Netanyahu governments rejoicing over Judge Goldstones Washington Post op-ed and its demands that the report be repealed are unfounded.

Judge Goldstone did not issue a retraction, nor did he recommend Israel for a Good Conduct Medal. While he did say his report would have looked different had he known then what he knows now, nothing in the article suggests that the baby should be thrown out with the bathwater.

What Goldstone does say is that although there is evidence of cases where Israeli soldiers opened fire on civilians, these incidents were apparently the acts of individuals and not the execution of a policy adopted by the upper echelons.

I believe Judge Goldstone today just as I did at the time the report was issued. I dont think the decision-makers in Jerusalem or army headquarters have crossed that line where they would order the troops to deliberately hunt and gun down innocent civilians... yet.

However, the fact that more than half of the approximately 1,400 Palestinians killed during Operation Cast Lead did not take part in the hostilities, and that almost half of the dead non-combatants were minors, shows that there was wanton disregard for human life, and the documentation of even isolated incidents where IDF soldiers shot first and never asked questions constitutes a serious indictment of the most moral army in the world.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
66. The Unforgivable Maliciousness of Goldstone
http://yaacovlozowick.blogspot.com/2011/04/unforgivable...

The New York Times tries to figure out what made him change his mind.(If you've run out of free access to the New York Times for the month, Haaretz summarizes the article here). The thesis seems to be that he thought that by castigating both sides, he'd promote a process of mutual reflection and eventual reconciliation; this bizarre idea stemming from a similar experience he had in South Africa as Apartheid waned.

Yet another example of how different Apartheid always was from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Mostly, however, it's a demonstration of how weirdly ignorant Goldstone may have been (and still is) about the conflict here.

He noted in Sacramento, for example, as in his later essay, that the deaths of about 29 members of one Gazan family grouped together by Israeli soldiers in a building that was subsequently bombed probably resulted from a misreading of a drone photograph. Men carrying firewood might have looked as if they were holding rocket launchers.At a debate last month at Stanford Law School, he did not excuse that Israeli killing but said that originally, in the absence of any evidence at all, the only conclusion we could come to was that it was intentional. Now it appeared to have been negligence due to lack of communication and verification, he said.


Translation to English: we didn't know what we were talking about, since we lacked most of the relevant data, so we had no choice but to assume the worst about Israel and broadcast this assumption to the world as proven fact.

Only after the enemies of the Jews greeted this malicious accusation with the greatest of glee did it occur to the judge that he had been willingly manipulated. In my understanding of repentance, he hasn't even started the process. What he needs to do now is systematically tear down the entire edifice he built; if it take the rest of his life, so be it.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. So people can decide on thier own:
HUMAN RIGHTS IN PALESTINE AND OTHER
OCCUPIED ARAB TERRITORIES
Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict∗

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specials...
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. How much evidence do you need to start questioning the veracity of Goldstone's Report? n/t
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 07:20 PM by shira
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