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‘Kauft nicht bei Juden’ will worsen the conflict

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:04 AM
Original message
‘Kauft nicht bei Juden’ will worsen the conflict
‘Kauft nicht bei Juden’ will worsen the conflict
By DENIS MACSHANE
11/29/2010 23:39

The call to boycott Jewish commerce is Europe’s oldest political appeal.



Kauft nicht bei Juden – “Don’t buy from Jews” – is back. The call to boycott Jewish commerce is Europe’s oldest political appeal. Once again, as the tsunami of hate against Israel rolls out from the Right and the Left, from Islamist ideologues to Europe’s cultural elites, the demand is to punish the Jews. That the actions of the Israeli government are open to criticism is a fact. But what are the real arguments?

Firstly, that Israel is wrong to defy international law as an occupying force on the West Bank. But what about Turkey? It has 35,000 soldiers occupying the territory of a sovereign republic – Cyprus. Ankara has sent hundreds of thousands of settlers to colonize the ancient Greekowned lands of northern Cyprus. Turkey has been told again and again by the UN to withdraw its troops. Instead, it now also stands accused of destroying the ancient Christian churches of northern Cyprus.

Does anyone call for a boycott of Turkey, or urge companies to divest from it? No. Only the Jews are targeted.

Or take India; 500,000 Indian soldiers occupy Kashmir. According to Amnesty International, 70,000 Muslims have been killed over the past 20 years by these soldiers and security forces – a number that far exceeds the Palestinians killed by Israeli forces in the same period. But the Islamic ideologues focus on Jews, not Indians.

more...
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article....
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:15 AM
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1. It's a thoughtful comparison. One might also look at Ulster,
South Africa and the entire continents of North and South America to see places where two sets of people claimed the same lands several centuries ago, and ask what Israel wants to be in a few hundred years. This is not to suggest that Israel is evil. My own people came to America after being driven from their land. Everyone has to be somewhere. It is to ask what would be the most merciful resolution. Both parties can claim justice to their cause; it's time for mercy.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. But this is bigotry. n/t
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Very true - I was in a rush this morning and wasn't able to craft as careful a response as I'd like.
I guess my line of thinking was to agree that the situation on the ground in Israel is analogous to other situations but is judged much more harshly by the outside world; in a word; bigotry.

What I jumped ahead to was the fact that this situation is nothing new, that there are many pieces of land with multiple peoples laying claim, and suggesting we look at what happened at those places as an inspiration of what we should be doing today. I have to admit to being caught by lazy thinking - not only Israel and the Palestinians but also the Turks and Greeks, Indians and Pakistanis etc. should think twice about the problems they're leaving for their descendants.

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Yep, bigotry. One standard for Israel, another for all other countries.
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 04:33 AM by shira
Similar to what happens at the UN.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. I can assure Mr MacShane that "Islamic ideologues" focus on Indians too. nt
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. There are no significant International boycott efforts vs. Turkey or India. n/t
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. But there are plenty of ""Islamic ideologues" focussed on India.
Regular bombings and suicide attacks etc., lots of political rhetoric and threats back and forth, etc. and a great deal of international involvement, military aid, and so on, It is a very high profile issue in international affairs.

Which is what the OP said there is not, and what I challenged. Are we talking about "Islamic ideologues" or are we talking about "international boycotts"? It is hard to make sense when you can't remember what your subject was from post to post. The OP has a false premise.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. That writer seems really confused and keeps on equating Israel and Jews...
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 10:21 PM by Violet_Crumble
Participating in boycotts of Israeli companies is NOT a call to boycott Jews, no more than criticising Israel's occupation of Palestinian territory criticising Jews. It's quite irritating to see people like this Macshane blur the distinction and then see people turn around and condemn people who support the Palestinians who do exactly what they do and blur the distinction between Israel and Jews. There's a big difference between the two. Quite a large percentage of the population of Israel isn't Jewish, and Israel as a state doesn't speak on behalf of many Jews worldwide who are opposed to the occupation..

Show me even one group who states that they're boycotting Jews, not Israel, and I'll be totally against what they're doing, as that would be incredibly bigoted...
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kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Very true.......My thoughts exactly......n/t
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. Ah, the good old bogus accusation of antisemitism.
Attempting to conflate boycotts of Israel with boycotts of Jews is immensely dishonest.

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Quoting Thomas Friedman...
"Criticizing Israel is not anti-Semitic, and saying so is vile. But singling out Israel for opprobrium and international sanction out of all proportion to any other party in the Middle East is anti-Semitic, and not saying so is dishonest."

That's exactly what's happening here with BDS against Israel, when every state surrounding Israel deserves BDS for their human rights records that are at least 100x worse than anything Israel can be accused of.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I'm glad you acknowledge that your initial post was vile.

The two points you are carefully overlooking in this response are a) that boycotts and sanctions are in place against many of the states surrounding Israel (Iran and Gaza leaping to mind) and b) that in most of those states the government is largely responsive to the will of the electorate, making boycotts of very limited value.

Israel is not uniquely evil, and - despite what you try to imply - very few of its western critics claim that it is. But it *is* uniquely evil among states that are highly susceptible to popular pressure from the West - no other self-proclaimed Western-style liberal democracy that is heavily dependent on US support practices apartheid.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Israel is:
a.) completely ordinary
b.) small potatoes

But nobody wants to admit it, no money in that.

Your point about the fact that Israel is not particularly 'singled out" is well taken. Iraq or Afghanistan is what it looks like when you get "singled out".
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I never acknowledged any such thing...
Edited on Thu Dec-16-10 04:59 AM by shira
The rest of your post is also wrong.

Lebanon is an example of a country that fancies itself as a liberal western style democracy, it is dependent on US support, and it absolutely practices real (not imaginary) apartheid against Palestinians.

I don't see how BDS is considered a good thing when its goal is to pressure Israel into giving in to all extreme Palestinian demands (like full RoR).
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