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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:35 PM
Original message
'Mossad, CIA, MI6 behind Tehran attacks'
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 10:36 PM by Prometheus Bound
Source: PressTV

'Mossad, CIA, MI6 behind Tehran attacks'
Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:50AM

Iran's interior minister has accused the intelligence agencies of Israel, the United States, and Britain of involvement in the recent terrorist attacks on two Iranian nuclear scientists.

The arrested agents confessed that they received equipment and training from the Mossad, the CIA, and MI6, Iranian Interior Minister Mostafa Mohammad Najjar said in Tehran on Saturday.

He also promised that the country's security forces would track down the ringleaders of the attacks.

...

Earlier in December, Deputy Judiciary Chief Seyyed Ebrahim Raeisi said that evidence on the ground points to the involvement of Israeli intelligence agents in the attacks.

Raeisi also said that some elements linked to Israel operating inside the country had carried out "intelligence and identification operations" for Israel that paved the way for the murder of the Iranian academic.


Read more: http://www.presstv.ir/detail/155082.html
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well I guess if Iran's interior minister said it, it must be true /nt
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Apparantly it was the arrested agents who said it.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. really? you believe that?
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I have no way of knowing.
But in trying to imagine motive, it isn't unthinkable.
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former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Under torture they would have said you made them do it.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yes, torture makes confessions dubious
Similarly, all the evidence obtained by torture in Guantanamo and via CIA renditions is unreliable.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Who were of what nationality? Identity? Do they exist?
Lotta people in Evin. It could get confusing.
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. That information has not been released as far as I know.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. Biden has been calling for Israel to attack Iran for a year or more now ....
saying "Israel would be justified in attacking Iran" --- !!!

That's one hell of a lot more than a wink!!!

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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Iran's nuclear scientists targeted
December 7, 2010

Killing Condemned

Irans envoy to the Geneva talks, Saeed Jalili, opened the session by condemning the killing of physicist Majid Shahriari, state-run Mehr news agency reported, citing an unidentified Iranian official in Geneva.

We believe some of the secret foreign services have been involved, Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki told reporters in Athens yesterday. Those who think murders and military violence can destroy nuclear technology have made a big mistake.

The U.S. has said it wasnt involved, while Israel and the U.K. have declined to comment.

.....LINK




Envoy Lashes Out at UN Silence on Assassination of Iranian Scientists

December 11, 2010

.....

Dr. Majid Shahriari, a university lecturer and prominent nuclear scientist, and Iranian university professor Fereidoon Abbasi Davani were assassinated in separate terrorist bomb attacks on November 29. Dr. Shahriari was killed, while the second scientist escaped the attack.

Another Iranian university professor and nuclear scientist, Massoud Ali Mohammadi, was also assassinated in a terrorist bomb attack in Tehran in January.

Meantime, Khazaei called on Ban Ki-Moon to register the letters as a UN Security Council and General Assembly document.

Iran says Resolution 1747 adopted by the UNSC in March 2007 against the Islamic Republic cited Abbasi's name as a "nuclear scientist," thus suggesting that perpetrators behind the assassination could be traced through those who included the professor's name in the resolution.

Iran took the Zionist regime of Israel and US agents inside Iran responsible for the terrorist operations.

.....







Is Mossad targetting Iran's nuclear scientists?

2 December 2010
Guardian UK


Time magazine is running this slightly strange story, without byline or dateline, on Monday's assassination of one nuclear scientist in Tehran and the wounding of another.

The piece appears to give new details of the attacks following by the arresting phrase: "according to a Western intelligence expert with knowledge of the operation"! That sounds like Time has been talking to the people who did the deed, and the article hints heavily that those people work for Mossad.

The article also translates a piece in Israel Hayom on the retirement of Mossad's director, Meir Dagan, which observes:

(He) will be leaving an organization that is far sharper and more operational than the organization he received, and all of the accusations from Tehran yesterday are a good indication of that. Iran will be the focal point for the next Mossad director too.


.....

Meanwhile, as The Guardian's Saeed Kemali Dehghan reports, the head of the Atomic Energy Organisation of Iran, Ali Akbar Salehi, says security for his scientists will be upgraded. They are now truly in the firing line in a dirty and secret war.




"The Coming Wars", by Seymour Hersh, 2005


What does our Peace Laureate say about this?





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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Surgical but not perfect attacks. Only one scientist killed.
So who bungles like that?
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Stratfor had a possible explanation for that.
Attacks on Nuclear Scientists in Tehran
December 1, 2010

Attacks like the two carried out against Abassi and Shahriari require a high level of tradecraft that is available only to well-trained operatives. There is much more going on below the surface in attacks like these that is not immediately obvious when reading media reports. First, the team of assailants that attacked Abassi and Shahriari had to identify their targets and confirm that the men they were attacking were indeed high-level scientists involved in Irans nuclear program. The fact that Abassi and Shahriari held such high positions indicates they were specifically selected as targets and not the victims of a lucky, opportunistic attack.

Second, the team had to conduct surveillance of the two scientists. The team had to positively identify their vehicles and determine their schedules and routes in order to know when and how to launch their attacks. Both attacks targeted the scientists as they traveled to work, likely a time when they were most vulnerable, an MO commonly used by assassins worldwide.

Third, someone with sufficient expertise had to build IEDs that would kill their targets. Both devices appear to have been relatively small IEDs that were aimed precisely at the scientists, which may have been an attempt to limit collateral damage (their small size may also have been due to efforts to conceal the device). Both devices seem to have been adequate to kill their intended targets, and judging by the damage to his vehicle, it appears that Abassi would have received mortal wounds had he stayed in the drivers seat.

The deployment stage seems to be where things went wrong for the assailants, at least in the Abassi attack. It is unclear exactly what alerted him, but it appears that he was exercising some level of situational awareness and was able to determine that an attack was under way.

....

It is unlikely that any foreign power was able to conduct this operation by itself and equally unlikely that any indigenous militant group was able to pull off an attack like this without some assistance. The combination of the two, however, could provide an explanation of how the attacks targeting Shariari and Abassi got so close to complete success.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20101201_attacks_nuclear...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. That makes sense.
The intelligence and planning was good, the execution a little off. And I kept wondering how in hell they thought they would get away. But if local opposition was used (and Ahmadinejad has made himself so beloved of his people)then it's all reasonable.
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
28. Bungle in the jungle?...
Russians!!!!
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11cents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. That's right. It was Mossad ... and the CIA ...and M16 ....
They were ALL collaborating in these highly sophisticated attacks. The arrested agents were trained by the Mossad -- and then they were trained by the CIA -- and then they were trained by M16 ....

See, it's like this. When they put ALL the traditional Iranian bugaboos into the pot -- Israel, the US, AND Britain -- that's when a thinking brain detects bullshit. If they'd just said Mossad -- or just said CIA -- but no, it was all of them. The "agents" "confessed" that they were trained by all of them!
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I'm entertained by lack of a Saudi mention.
The Saudis were begging anyone who walked by to take out the nuke facilities (and I expect they wouldn't have minded if all of Iran went with them) but neither Iran nor anyone else suspects them of getting off their asses and doing anything.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
31. People working for the Saudi regime, and similar,
really, normally, don't have that much, um, experience, training, commitment discipline.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. How do you do that line through?
I don't know how to do that.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. basic html, aquart:
brackets strike ...
brackets /strike

:hi:
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. cool cool cool cool
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 04:36 PM by aquart
Cool cool cool cool

On edit: YIPPEEE!

Thank you!
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. You're welcome.
(Although your apparent attitude has sometimes somewhat disturbed my heart, in the past).

But that's cool, ok: Quality free communication, is all. :dead serious:
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. But they have a common goal - to thwart Iran's nuclear progress.
- Israel regards it as the most serious threat to its existence.

- The head of M16 2 months ago said that they had no choice but to use non-diplomatic means to stop Iran, and spoke highly of M16's partners in countries like Iran.

I don't think it's inconceivable that the three would work together to stop what they all ostensibly consider one of the world's greatest threats.

Just because they never admit working together doesn't mean they don't.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Is there anyone who WANTS Iran to have nuclear weapons?
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Nope. Not even the Iranian leadership if they are to be believed.
:)
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #17
32. "God" knows. n/t.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. plenty of people on this board have said that they support Iran's nuclear program
and we all know that Iran would NEVER use the program to make weapon-grade materials

those Iranians are just misunderstood

:sarcasm:

just more "if it pisses off the US, then it must be good" types

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. How many nuclear weapons does US have ...? And why are we to be trusted?
Are you kidding?

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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
37. why
I don't know but maybe because we don't have batshit crazies running our country like Iran does

maybe because our government recognizes the right of other countries to exist unlike Iran

why are we to be trusted? are you kidding?

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. Who have we attacked over hundreds of years ....
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 09:33 PM by defendandprotect
and who has Iran attacked and what nations has it taken over?

You don't think "Nuke 'em Le May" wasn't "batshit crazy" -- or the

Joint Chiefs who gave us "Operation Northwoods" weren't "batshit crazy"--???

Or Nixon who duplicated it with the "Huston Plan" to stop the 1972 elections -- ???

Nixon was "batshit crazy" -- and they in the end cut off his ability to

command the military!

LBJ was "batshit crazy" and Pierre Salinger tells us that he and Bill Moyers

-- aides to LBJ -- both knew LBJ to be "CLINICALLY PSYCHOTIC" ....

We recognize the right of other countries to exist?

I guess we haven't attacked a long list of them?

Even recently .... Grenada, Panama, Gulf War I -- plus 20 years of bombing

them thereafter -- Afghanistan and Gulf War II -- and for more than a year

Biden has been calling for Israel to attack Iran ....

saying "Israel would be justified in attacking Iran" --

Wake up -- United Nations calls us a "terrorist" nation ---


We're still in the same gene pool that gave us the murderous Columbus --

the stealing of this continent -- genocide against the Native Americans --

40 million or more of them -- and enslaving the African here for hundreds of

years -- and following it with another 100 years of Segregation, Inc.


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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #47
74. Yeah, but what about Cyrus the Great's conquest of Ionia in 547 BC?
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Iran funds and controls Hamas and Hezbollah....
Edited on Sat Dec-18-10 07:56 PM by shira
Iran has also been aiding Al Qaeda against US and coalition forces...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/17/tehran-... /

Arab countries are scared shitless that once Iran goes nuclear, they'll be attacked in the same way Kuwait was attacked by Iraq. This time, however, unlike Iraq the country attacking another for its oil will have nuclear weapons. Arab nations are scared Iran will completely take over and control most of the world's oil reserves.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. I support their nuclear program, and think the potential for weapons
is immaterial. WTF are they going to do? Nuke Jerusalem - the 3rd holiest city in Islam? Drop a nuke anywhere in Israel and the fallout will contaminate Jerusalem, and probably drift into Saudi Arabia as well - do they want to poison Mecca & Medina?

Not to mention the fact that if they DID attack Israel, Iran would be wiped off the map - the entire fucking country, oil fields and all, would be turned to glass.

So long as Israel has nukes, others in the ME will want them. It is as simple as that.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. The threat isn't that they use their nuclear weapons. Think Iraq taking Kuwait...
If Israel didn't take out their nuclear capability a decade earlier, Iraq would control Kuwait today and maybe more. There would have been no Gulf war in 1991. The mideast might look VERY different today. Saddam would have been, and still would be, untouchable.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. Who drew those lines on the map?
... Seperating, eg. Kuwait from the Basra region, and creating all those Gulf micro-states?

Ba'ath Party Iraq was, for a while and in spite of all, um, one of the most 'socially progressive' states in the Arab world. Thanks very much.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. really?
how does gassing one's own citizens make a country socially progressive
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Not worth a reply, really.
I suggest you do some serious research.
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Dick Dastardly Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #41
60. It would be more accurate to say you cant reply
Praising Iraqs government as being the most socially progressive in the Arab world is like praising one lump of shit over others as being much cleaner. It doesnt matter because the so called cleaner lump of shit is still a lump of shit just like Iraqs most socially progressive government in the Arab world is still illeberal,despotic and in fact more murderous than many of the less socially progresive.

Your claim is worth as much as the one that Mussolini made the trains run on time.




The question still remains that you cant reply too is

How is gassing your people socially progressive?.

I will also add

How is torturing of any dissenters socially progressive?

How is mass murder of any dissenters socially progressive?



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. As someone has already said ... you're not worth replying to ....
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 04:13 PM by defendandprotect
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Dick Dastardly Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. No one has stated anything of the sort to me except you.
Typical of some who dont do well with absorbing facts and reading comprehension, the post you refer to while an obvious dodge like yours is,it was not directed at me nor was it anything of the sort of personal attack you twisted it into and directed at me.

In any case if I am not worth replying to why did you reply with what you did. Obviously you too dont want facts to get in the way of your fantasy of Iraq's social progresiveness. Since you have no counter to some very legitimate questions, you engage in fallacious argument tactics.
I dont see how anyone with even a slightest regard for human rights can say that questions of genocide,torture, mass murder or any other brutality is not worth responding too.


So again the questions still remain that you too cant give a legitimate reply to.

How is gassing your people socially progressive?.


How is torturing of any dissenters socially progressive?

How is mass murder of any dissenters socially progressive?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
49. Guess who gave them the gas ... ???
we did --

and they attacked Kuwait on a wink from Poppy Bush --

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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #49
72. So what?
Edited on Fri Dec-17-10 05:34 AM by eyl
How does where they got their gas, or if the US tactily approve the invasion of Kuwait, justify the Iraqi actions in any way or make them a socially progressive state?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
48. Remember that Iraq attacked Kuwait on a WINK from Poppy Bush ....
see the April Glaspie cables on that one --

And with weapons that we provided them --

US/CIA also supported Saddam --

Wow --

Try this ... US/CIA created the Taliban and Al Qaeda financing it thru ISI-Pakistan --

As Brzezinski relates ... US went into Afghanistan 6 months before the Russians came

in ... and we did so "IN ORDER TO BAIT THE RUSSIANS INTO AFGHANISTAN ... IN HOPES OF

GIVING THEM A VIETNAM-TYPE EXPERIENCE."


Further, remember those inflammatory and violent religous books the TV told you so much

about -- showing the school children reading and chanting from them? Turns out US created

and wrote those books -- paid for them -- shipped them into the ME to create a more

violent strain of Islam.


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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. As long as the US invades non-nuclear nations
It has to be a priority with any nations to seek nuclear protection. Israel isn't an invasion threat. They've had those nukes a while now. But the US makes allies of nuclear powers and garbage heaps of non-nuclear nations.

Israel's a political talking point. It isn't Israel that worries them. It's the country that wants their oil and destroyed the guys next door that scares the shit out of them.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
50. And it is Israel which is feared in the region ... not Iran or Iraq ....
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. Feared by whom?
Lebanon? Iraq? Syria? Egypt? Dubai? Who's quaking in their boots?

Learn the meaning of propaganda talking points.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. you really think either one of your scenerios would stop the Iranians?
naive much?

the current Iranian regime has not hesitated to kill its own citizens

it doesn't recognize the right of Israel to exist and has been fighting/is fighting proxy wars with Israel

it does not approve of Saudi control over Mecca since it believes that the Saudis are corrupt

they also support the idea of bringing about the end of the world in order to create Allah's kingdom on earth

they make our batshit crazies look nearly normal

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. You've absorbed a LOT of anti-Iranian propaganda.
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 05:37 PM by RaleighNCDUer
It's people like YOU that they are scared of.

Quick quiz - when was the last time Iran/Persia has launched an agressive war?

Which Islamic sect wants to re-establish the Caliphate?

Are the Saudis corrupt?

Which middle-eastern Islamic nation was firt to have a democraticly elected government?

(fair warning - one of these is a trick question)
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. so you don't consider their proxy war
with Israel an aggressive war? bet those with family members and friends killed by Hamas and Hezbollah would disagree

the Saudis are corrupt but are the Iranians any better?

the Caliphate is not at issue here-no one is talking about an Islamic empire

Iran is a theocracy; the president is subordinate to the Supreme Leader and candidates must be approved by the Council of Guardians before they can run

laws can't be enacted with the approval of the Council either

how democratic is that





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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. Israel is a nuclear nation ....
conducting for years now a full scale war on people with no army!!

Take a look at the map of Palestine when the Israeli's got there and

where it is now ...!!

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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #51
58. no army
if the people have no army, then who is lobbing bombs into Israel?

who is blowing themselves up on Israeli buses?

someone has to be doing it

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. It's call terrorist activity when a nation has nothing else ... remember Israel started that way...?
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 06:40 PM by defendandprotect
Again -- go take a look at the map of Palestine when the Israelis were

permitted entrance --

and keep in mind that Palestine was there when Jesus walked the land --

These people had nothing to do with the Jewish Holocaust in Germany --

Nixon armed right wing Israeli Hawks thereby burying peace-loving Israelis --

in order to give US a foothold in the region and eventual control over the

land wealthy in oil and natural resources.

Assassination of PM Rabin was by this right wing in control of the country --

Israel is a nuclear nation -- US supplies the weapons for their wars --

And what has VP Biden been doing for the past year and more except trying to

push Israel to attack Iran --

Biden: "Israel would be justified in attacking Iran" --

and wouldn't that work out just peachy for US -- ???



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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #66
73. "and keep in mind that Palestine was there when Jesus walked the land "
your point? Palestine was a Roman province at the time and was previously the location of a Jewish state. The connection between the Roman (and later) use of "Palestine" and any (prospective) Palestinian state is like that between North America and America AKA the US.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. And you've absorbed a lot of pro-Iranian propaganda
With respect to your quiz:

1. Right now and consistently over the past several decades via the funding of a variety of paramilitary groups across the region.

2. Non-sequitur?

3. Absolutely

4. Turkey
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. And what has the US/CIA been doing in all this time ... nothing?
US has constantly interferred in the affairs of Iran --

that's why there was a taking of the hostages --

Biden has for more than a year now been trying to encourage

Israel to attack Iran!! Biden says: "Israel would be justified in attack Iran!"

Really ... what if any nation

were encouraging another nation to attack us?

We're just simply the little juveniles in the world? --

We've got troops everywhere --

and two faked wars going on for OIL and natural resources -- and for control of the area.

We've been occupying Afghanistan and Iraq for ten years now!!

And what you find fault with is Iran?


:rofl:



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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #52
62. No one is defending those actions
One can be critical of Iran and the United States at the same time.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. What I'm pointing out is that you have to understand underlying causes
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 04:11 PM by defendandprotect
of national behavior --

Like our pointing nuclear missiles at Russia in time of Krushchev --

possibly they're even back now? Who knows?

Iran has possibily the largest oil resources in the world -- and

without doubt US wants control over those resources --

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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #63
68. It's all a rich tapestry
We can still evaluate individual players based on their words and their deeds. Everyone has a motivation for what they do unless they are psychopaths. And there is always a cause and effect, but are there still fundamental values that we can agree on - at least here on this website? And do the current rulers of Iran live up to those values?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. I'm more worried about US imperialism, aggression and terrorism ....
than I'm worried about Iran's behavior which has been provoked by US government --

And, I'd point out -- there are also "Psychopathic" motivations --

Most often when you look at the "words and the deeds" and at "cause and effect" you

see US terrorism in play.




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kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. The interesting thing is to imagine the reaction if this had happened in Israel rather than Iran....
The interesting thing is to imagine the reaction if this had happened in Israel rather than Iran....

Would Israel consider it a Casus Belli and declare war on Iran?.....

So far Iran has:
Been invaded and occupied by the UK in 1940.
Suffered regime change by the US & UK.
Suffered thousands killed in an Iraqi invasion which was supplied with weapons by the US & the UK.
Had a civilian airliner shot down by the US.
Suffered lethal attacks by terrorists supported by the US.
Suffered a major cyber attack by Israel or the US.
Suffered targeted killings of government employees by Israel or the US.

Can you imagine any other major state not reacting to such provocations?

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #46
59. Bzzzt
1) No iranian troops have crossed any international borders in aggressive war since the Persian invasion of India in 1739. If giving or selling arms to groups in other nations is your criteria, then the US is current at war with at least a hundred different nations, including many in south & central America, Africa, the middle-east, south asia, and well, just about everywhere.

2) Not a non-sequitur. The PERSIANS have no interest in re-establishing the ARAB caliphate, the dream of Bin Laden and his Saudi backers, the source of funding for virtually every terrorist group other than the Lebanese hezbollah. We leave them alone, and they will leave us alone.

3) the point of which was in answer to "it does not approve of Saudi control over Mecca since it believes that the Saudis are corrupt" - the Shia have thought the corrupt Saudis to be a problem for many, many decades but, as noted above, they have NOT invaded the pitifully weak Saudi Arabia (which has less and a quarter Iran's population) for hundreds of years - so why would we think they are about to now?

4. Wrong. Turkey was not an Islamic state at the time of its first election. Kemal Ataturk had transformed it into a SECULAR nation before their first elections (told you it was a trick question). Iran was a parlimentary monarchy - like Britain - and was the first such in the Islamic world. They made the mistake of electing a government that the US and Britain didn't like and that created the scenario for another first - the first country in which the US engineered a coup.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. Proxy troops - providing funding and weapons
To deny Iran's aggressive involvement in numerous international conflicts over the past three decades is to deny reality.

And, yes, the US is at war all over the world and has been for a very long time.

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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. I wonder:
Which government is most likely to attack others, Iranian or United States?

:think:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #27
53. United States ... now and for hundreds of years ....
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
33. But, you're ok with other Persian Gulf States
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 07:13 AM by Ghost Dog
and/or elsewhere, 'middle-east' or whatever, developing purchasing civilian nuclear energy projects?

Let's just try to honestly negotiate, and comply with, all of us, a genuinely agreed and binding international nuclear weapons non-proliferation treaty.

Ah, and chemical and biological (the 'little man', Mr. Blair's people said, Dr. David Kelly was No. 1 Brit expert in that field), um, and socio-psychological, also.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Anyone want US to have nuclear weapons ... ?
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
25. All 3.
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 03:07 AM by Ghost Dog
Hmmm. That reminds me of...

Nah, that's just silly, sorry.

:idea: It was the journalists in the tunnel on their motorbikes!
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. Seymour Hersh reported a couple of years ago in The New Yorker
that the U.S. was conducting covert operations in Iran.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
54. Thank you ... hard to believe that there is such a lack of knowledge
about all of this --

and how quickly people can be convinced to attack another country!!!

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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #54
57. It would be nice if we could defeat the propensity for tribalism, completely.
Human civilization faces grave challenges in the coming decades. The survival of our species may very well depend on whether or not we can cooperate with each other.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #57
65. We can cooperate with each other .... the wedge is driven between us by the few who
profit from war and control over other nation's natural resources --

They do that thru violence and violent intimidation --

and the world since time began has not figured out yet how to

STOP the violence of the few among us.



:nuke:
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
18. out political leaders use them as our boogey man, theirs use us.
kinda funny really
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. What ... ? The Unholy Trinity of murders and coups ... couldn't be... !!!
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:55 AM
Response to Original message
29. Anything's possible. But I'd want better evidence than Iran's Interior Minister's words on PressTV
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
55. You know, I always wanted better evidence that W or Kissinger's words on TV ...
or Nixon's or LBJ's --

Unfortunately, Kissinger now has a lot to do with Obama adminsitration's

foreign policy!!

:eyes:
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
70. Well, there's a good chance he's right, but only on stopped-clock grounds. N.T.
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