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demoleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:20 PM
Original message
Israel accused of silencing political protest
Source: ap

JERUSALEM Israel is arresting a growing number of prominent opponents to its policies toward the Palestinians, say critics who are accusing the government of trying to crush legitimate dissent.

In the most high-profile case yet, Jerusalem police detained the leader of a leading Israeli human rights group during a vigil against the eviction of Palestinian families whose homes were taken by Jewish settlers.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_i...
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. What do you think happens to Palestinians who protest their peoples terrorist attacks?
Bet they aren't around much longer.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Is your point that the protesting Israelis could get worse or that they should be happy that

they only had their rights violated?
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Different subject
We all know they would get shot or thrown off a roof. Doesn't make what the Israeli's are doing any more palatable.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I didn't say I agreed with their tactics but.....
I'd rather be jailed than dead.

The double standard here on DU just amazes me.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Believe me when I say
I understand what you're saying. There is a double standard here (every other religion gets shit on but Islam gets a pass). I'm just stating I expect Israel to behave better. While there are those who think that, in itself, is racist, I don't really give a shit.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. Islam gets a pass? In what alternate universe??
I recall you coming out with the same line in one of the big forums around the time when there were lots of threads about minarets being banned in Switzerland. Some of the posters who were in there defending the ban were also at work in other threads where Muslims were mentioned, implying and sometimes coming straight out and saying that they don't believe there's many peaceful Muslims. So when someone repeatedly claims against all evidence to the contrary, that Islam gets a pass at DU, I'm going to start to wonder whether there's some sort of anti-Muslim motivation in their doing so. It's just that I've sometimes seen people arrive at DU and make similar claims to yrs, except in their case it's about Jews, and they remind me of you a bit...
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. absolute nonsense and you know it!! there are post on DU all the time
Edited on Wed Jan-20-10 02:46 AM by Douglas Carpenter
that are so full of hatred and vile against Muslim people that they sound exactly like the kind of anti-Semitic crap one finds on neo-Nazi hate-sites, except many of these posters repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat their bigotry and get a way with it when anyone who posted anti-Jewish crap like that would quite correctly and quite properly be banned within a few post.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. DU is two-faced when comes to Israel.
Sad fact.
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FarrenH Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. It's funny
Edited on Tue Jan-19-10 01:58 PM by FarrenH
Growing up white, under Apartheid, I heard the same fucking "reasoning" all the time. It sounds rational, but the comfortable and secure expecting the uncomfortable and insecure to be rational always does, even when they're the cause of discomfort and insecurity. Even when said comfortable and secure individuals' selfish demand for security is met with the expense of a loss of self-determination of another, less secure people. FYI, its not. Rational, I mean, or compassionate. Or any other adjective which might seem to redeem such a viewpoint to the casual and misinformed individual.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. oh stop it already....there is no comparison b/w S.Africa and Israel
Edited on Tue Jan-19-10 05:36 PM by shira
Olmert just offered Abbas in 2008 a deal that would guarantee a Palestine with 100% of the land area pre-1967, a capital in E.Jerusalem, and limited RoR. It was shot down. Gaps were "too wide" according to Abbas. What on earth would you offer that's better?

That's a FAR CRY from S.Africa, which refused to grant blacks freedom, or in this case, self-determination until they were forced to.

Can you imagine black leadership in S.Africa turning down each and every opportunity for equal rights b/c they wouldn't let go of their rejectionist viewpoints in which all whites would be either expelled or annhilated....an all-or-nothing proposition?

Besides, Jimmy Carter just recently admitted that the title of his book is misleading and that he never claimed Israel is an apartheid state, merely that it would become one.
http://www.jewishexponent.com/article/20305 /

"Asked what, in particular, he might have done to stigmatize Israel, Carter referred to the title of his book. The former president said that he had attempted to conflate into a single title his belief that Palestine, not Israel, should control the West Bank, and that apartheid, not peace, would prevail were that not to happen. Apartheid was a predictor, he said, not a description; such an outlook was not inconsistent with Israeli leaders and pro-Israel groups."


Of course, facts do not matter to true believers, so it really doesn't matter what Carter really believes.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Yr doing a damn fine job defending those tactics...
And the double standards that I'm seeing in this thread is from posters such as yrself, who cannot bring themselves to ever be critical of anything done by Israel, while jumping up and down and demanding that everyone else MUST be critical of the Palestinians, even though many DUers are much more balanced and fair and are critical of both sides...
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Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I have an idea

Why don't you do some research instead of voicing inflammatory rhetoric and get back to us on your results?
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Doesn't need to
Any honest person knows the answer to that question. Research will just confirm it.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. And any honest person can spot the lame attempts to change the subject away from the OP n/t
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FarrenH Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Why do you
Edited on Tue Jan-19-10 02:05 PM by FarrenH
do some research. And realise that Apartheid is as Apartheid does. That Israel is effectively an Apartheid state. That it wins a pass on fucking guilt over past (and diminishingly present) European antisemitism is irrelevant. You don't have to support the awful Islamist lunacy of Hamas to see this, only the clear light of reason.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. why don't you read Carter's recent quote in #13 above....where he doesn't believe it's apartheid?
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pennylane100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. So is it OK for Israel to silence dissent
because the other side may do so. Is that like saying "Two wrongs do make a right"
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Apparently it's okay to do it as long as they don't kill dissenters...
Doesn't make any sense as far as a justification goes, but that's it appears to be....
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. You could start your research here
Syria's Mufti: Islam commands us to protect Judaism

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well, let's see:
Palestinian activists urge Hamas to probe own Gaza war crimes

Eleven Palestinian human rights organizations have called on the Palestinian Authority and the Hamas government in Gaza to endorse the Goldstone report by investigating Palestinian violations of international law allegedly committed during operation Cast Lead.

Acts listed by the report include Palestinian attacks on civilians in Israel and instances of internal repression, such as summary executions in the Gaza Strip and arrests and torture in the West Bank.

The calls were made in identical letters sent to Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas and Hamas prime minister Ismail Haniyeh. The organizations asked the two leaders to launch investigations before the February 5 deadline by which the UN Secretary-General is to report to the General Assembly on compliance by Israel and the Palestinians with the assembly's earlier resolution.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. yeah, right
Edited on Tue Jan-19-10 05:54 PM by shira
Violent outbursts and rock-throwing count as peaceful expression and free speech.

:eyes:

As to Israel limiting freedom of expression, that too is a joke as this recent occurence shows with an Israeli Arab Knesset member...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3836574,00.ht...

"However the move met with opposition. MK Ahmad Tibi (United Arab List-Ta'al) called on the OECD not to accept Israel as a member during a meeting of Israeli and Palestinian journalists at the Knesset. Tibi claimed that Israel does not meet the organization's regulations of equality in respect to its treatment of Arab citizens."

Members of US congress don't even attempt to exercise such freedom of expression against their own government.

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
20. This shouldn't be a surprise, considering the extreme RW govt...
Stifling dissent is one of the often used tools in the arsenals of very RW governments, and it's no surprise at all that it's happening in Israel. What is a surprise to me is that so many self-proclaimed left-wingers at DU who had not one positive thing to say about the RW Bush administration will fall all over themselves to defend the even more RW Netanyahu government in Israel. I didn't realise that supporting conservatives (and let's be honest - Nutty's govt is not merely conservative, but contains racists, religious extremists and fascists) is totally acceptable as long as they're Israeli ones...
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
22. More of the same
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Israel is attempting to deport an American Jew who is an editor for Maan, saying among other things that he "exploited" his Jewishness to get into Israel
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