Saudi FM: Israel is acting like a spoiled child

[IndianaGreen]

Saudi FM: Israel is acting like a spoiled child

By The Associated Press

The Saudi foreign minister on Saturday criticized Israel's settlement construction and said the country acts like a spoiled child because the international community is not tough enough in pressuring it to make concessions.

Prince Saud al-Faisal told a press conference in Riyadh that Washington and other players in Mideast peace efforts should take a firm and serious stand to put an end to Israeli construction on land Palestinians want for a future state.

"Israel's announcement Monday that it plans to build building nearly 700 new apartments for Jews in East Jerusalem is a source of worry, which we strongly condemn," he said.

The Palestinians want East Jerusalem as their capital and say each expansion of Jewish housing there is making partition as part of a future peace deal more difficult. The U.S., the Palestinians and the European Union condemned the new Israeli building plan.

Israeli-Palestinian talks broke off a year ago, and the Palestinians refuse to restart talks until all Israeli construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem is halted. The Palestinians rejected a partial 10-month Israeli settlement freeze as not enough.

The Saudi foreign minister said the international community needed to get tougher with Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1139365.html

[FLAprogressive]

1. they do.

[PDJane]

2. Right on both counts..........

If the international community doesn't get tougher, we're going to end up with blowback of interesting proportions.

[47of74]

3. Wow, project much

If there's any country on Earth that the international community needs to get tougher with, it's Saudi Arabia.

[shira]

5. +1000

How seriously are we to take Saudi Arabia WRT Israel when they don't even allow Jews to live on their land?

[Jim Sagle]

80. That's REAL apartheid, as opposed to the fake apartheid Israel is accused of by the usual crew of

lying haters.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. That doesn't mean the criticism of Israel is incorrect, though...

So yr post does come across like trying to divert attention away from Israel being criticised...

[47of74]

8. I know there's a lot of things Israel is doing wrong.

But the Saudis complaining brings to mind stories of blackened pots and kettles.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. Then according to that logic Israel should never complain about other countries, right?

Because those same blackened pots and kettles apply to Israel, and also the US. Wouldn't you agree?

[peacetalksforall]

4. Agree - Israel leadership decisions are insufferable with pushiness of a most dangerous kind.

The tide has turned away from 100% support for Israel.
They ruined it for themselves.

There is no humanity here in their policies of today.

I couldn't respect them for their eye for an eye killing.

It's quite obvious that their goal is 100% exile/refugee status for Palestinians.

[azurnoir]

6. I would agree with this assessment

it will "take a village" so to speak to finally bring the creation of a Palestinian state to realization

[Kurska]

9. And Saudi Arabia acts like a abusive husband toward all its women.

Bullshit on Saudi arabia and all the fair weather friends of human rights are really exposuing themselves by agreeing with them, this is like stalin giving a lecture on democracy.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. And how does that make what was said in the OP untrue? It doesn't...

According to the logic here, I could call bullshit on countries like the US and Israel criticising any other countries for human rights violations...

[Kurska]

14. Would you atleast admit Saudi Arabia's abuses are far worse?

And have no room to talk?

[PDJane]

15. No.

Saudi plays power games, treats women and children like chattels and is an ally of the US.

Israel plays power games, strips a whole group of people of rights, liberty and life, is determined to simply wipe out a whole race of people (and has been doing a fine job of it), and is an ally of the US.

That makes the Saudi outrages just a tiny bit less......not much, but a bit.

[Kurska]

16. The fact you actually believe that speaks volumes about you.

Why don't you actually look into Israel's human rights record? Israel is a modern democracy, where women are equal to men and gays are not murdered under the law.Israel has never attempted to wipe out all the Palestinians (the number of Palestinians in the world has increased by nearly 10 times since 1947, 4 times as many live inside the area directly or indirectly controlled by the supposedly genocidal Israel) I am very curious excatly when the Israel has ever tried to "wipe out all the Palestinians", I mean that sounds like unsupported irresponsible slander to me, but hey you're better then that I'm sure.

[LeftishBrit]

20. Much of this is not true

Israel practices oppressive policies toward the Palestinians, but it is NOT trying to wipe them out, and certainly has not been 'doing a fine job of it', as the population in the OTs has been *increasing* significantly.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kurska]

72. You've linked two trash websites.

You clearly have no idea what the definition of "Wipe out" means, because Palestinian citizens of Israel can vote, enjoy equal rights and can have as many damn kids as they feel like. Same for the Palestininas that live in West bank (except because they aren't and don't want to be citizens of the Jewish state they can't vote), no one said it isn't ugly over their with lots of death on both sides, the fact that you think Israel is some how hiding a genocide and just "Undereporting" the deaths is ridiculous.

[PDJane]

74. No. It isn't.

Those trash websites are using maps that came from b'tselem, an Israeli peace group, and those charts are from NGO's. You've got your head up your......well, trying to present Israel as the nice, white, morally upright nation.

Israel has been morally bankrupt from the start, and they are trying to rid Palestine of palestinians. If they are being outbred, that's because people will use sex as comfort....and birth control is beyond the means of those who are unemployed. The unemployment rate is 4x higher than Israel's unemployment rate.

Israel has rigged the game from the beginning, and they have been ignoring international law from the beginning. They also have nuclear weapons, and they are not signatories to the NNPT. Iran, actually, is. It's hypocrisy reserved for Israel alone, and it's ridiculous.

[Kurska]

79. "From the begining" Israel has had to fight war after war to defend itself.

And has gained that land as consequence of their neighbors, both countries and other groups of people refusing to tolerate the existence of Israel. It has also given up more then 3 times its current land mass in peace agreement after peace agreement. And Israel will give back a good deal of the land it gained in 1967 if the Palestinians ever decide to finally accept peace, just like they did with the land they got in 1973 defending themselves against Egypt and gave back for a lasting peae.

You're accusing Israel of genocide and you have nothing to back that up, you're just a blind partisan using the worst words you can think of without any knowledge of the millions of good people you are slandering.

[Violet_Crumble]

86. Don't mind me. I'm just testing a theory out ...

There's this website called If Americans Knew. Personally I think it's every bit as crappy as some of the partisan pro-Israeli sites that get posted here, but whatever floats yr boat. People can visit it by clicking on this link: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

[Violet_Crumble]

82. No, only one of them is. The second isn't from what I could see...

The first is trashy for the same reason that sites like CAMERA are - they're both highly partisan sites that use the art of lying by omission to cater to their followers. If people want factual and objective information on the conflict, they're best off avoiding sites like those. Referring to very credible and respected organisations like B'Tselem doesn't give them any credibility, either, because they can't ride on the coattails of others credibility and have it become their own...


As for "wiping out", while there's some in the Knesset currently who would embrace genocide against the Palestinians, the fact is that they're lunatics who will hopefully never hold the power needed to act out on such a thing. If anyone wants to try arguing that Israel's committing genocide, they can argue it with me, because as horrific as some of the things Israel has done to the Palestinians have been, genocide hasn't come into it, and to bring it up is indulging in over-exaggeration and does nothing for the Palestinian cause....

[polly7]

75. Thank you for those links. nt.

[Violet_Crumble]

81. I agree with the first and totally disagree with the second...

Using that logic, Israel has no room to talk when it comes to criticism of any other country for human rights abuses...

[IndianaGreen]

12. And the Haredi treat their women like chattel

Misogyny is rampant in all monotheistic religions.

[Kurska]

13. Yes, but in Israel it isn't state sanctioned or the law of the land. n/t

[Ken Burch]

19. It is,nonetheless, at least tolerated by the Israeli authorities

because keeping a governing coalition together is more important than making sure all Israeli women are treated like human beings.

(Not Likud-bashing here. MOST governing coalitions in Israel have been guilty of tolerating extreme religious weirdness in the name of keeping their junior partners in government happy.)

[Ken Burch]

18. In case you'd missed it, nobody here gives the Saudis a pass

It's the power elites that give the IDF all the weapons it ever wants that do THAT.

(Btw, it's time for the Israelis to let Mordechai Vanunu be free for once and for all. A government has no right to punish a person just for talking to people from another country, and there was no sane reason for Israel to HAVE the bomb in the first place.)

[LeftishBrit]

69. First part is correct; - but it still seems ironic for Saudi Arabia to talk about others getting

away with things, when those in power do give them such a free pass.

Israel may be at times *America's* spoiled child and at times its pawn (the two often go together in real-world politics). But Saudi Arabia is far more of a spoiled child of the *world at large*, or at least those who have power, because of the bribery and blackmail that its oil allows it.

As regards Vanunu, you say that 'A government has no right to punish a person just for talking to people from another country.' Well, to an extent I agree with you. I think that especially in the modern world, where the greatest threats are often not from single enemy states, the emphasis on 'state secrecy' often reduces rather than increasing everyone's security in the long run. I also think that the greatest threat to a state's or the world's security comes from the arms trade, and as long as arms are so freely traded, the emphasis on secrecy is often 'shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted'. Nevertheless, people in any country who reveal state secrets are likely to be severely punished; this is not specific to Israel.

'and there was no sane reason for Israel to HAVE the bomb in the first place'

Do you think there's a sane reason for any country to have the bomb?

[Ken Burch]

70. Well, no.

I do think it's especially loony for Israel to have one, because of the fact that if it actually dropped one on somebody else, it would almost certainly get the fallout from the bomb blown back in its own direction.

[Ken Burch]

17. They do. Unfortunately, so does Saudi Arabia

And, like Israel, the Saudis always get away with it.

Both places could do with a secular socialist revolution. Ain't gonna happen, but they both need it.

[LeftishBrit]

21. So it does right now - but Saudi Arabia is the *real* 'world's spoiled child'

Probably due to oil-bribery, they can get away with anything.

[FarCenter]

22. Israel acts like the world’s ‘spoilt child’: Saudi FM

RIYADH: Saudi Arabia said on Saturday said Israel was the world’s “spoilt child” and got away with what Riyadh said were violations of international law and war crimes without punishment.

Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal also urged countries to adopt “a firm and serious stance to put an end to the policy of settlements in occupied Palestinian territories and in Jerusalem”.

“Not reaching solutions (for the Middle East conflict) is (the result of) the special treatment Israel gets,” he said at a news conference with visiting Turkish counterpart Ahmet Davutoglu.

“When they violate international law, other countries get punished but not Israel ... Israel has become like the spoilt child of the international community.

“It (Israel) gets away with anything it does without accountability or punishment,” he added.

<SNIP>http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/13+israel+acts+like+spoilt+child+saudi+fm-za-12

[Kurska]

23. And Saudi Arabia acts like a abusive husband toward all its women.

But this will get chucked into the dungeon in a few seconds, lets time it.

[Why Syzygy]

25. I'll watch the countdown clock with you. nt

[Kurska]

27. Do they shoot off fireworks and the crowd cheers when it hits zero?

Will there be a musical presentation by Bob Dylan?

[Violet_Crumble]

38. I hope you guys weren't holding yr breath waiting...

And Bob Dylan sucks. Seriously sucks....

[Ken Burch]

62. Now, now, Violet, Bob's trying. It's not easy to keep touring when you're 147 years old

n/t.

[Violet_Crumble]

64. I remember him being old when I was a kid. It's like he's always been old...

..and boring. :)

[Ken Burch]

67. You might say

He was so much older then, he's older than THAT now...

And I've always thought Bob was an asshole ever since he threw Phil Ochs out of that limosine and treated Joan Baez like dirt.
Ever read a book called "Positively 4th Street"? it deals with the Dylan-Baez and Richard and Mimi Farina relationships(Mimi was Joan's younger sister). At one point, Mimi almost beat the shit out of Dylan in a restaurant because of how mean he was being to her big sis.

[Ken Burch]

61. Nobody on the left gives Saudi Arabia a pass

It's the center-right "establishment" types who also refuse to criticize the illegal settlements and the Occupation in general who do that.

[UndertheOcean]

24. and Suadis smell like roses ?

[grassfed]

34. right and like Israel there are positive aspects of Saudi life

Saudi Arabia opened its first coeducational college campus, the King Abdullah Science and Technology University. In a country where the sexes have been so separated in public that some have spoken of 'gender Apartheid,' this move, which came from King Abdullah, provoked raging controversy. When a prominent cleric criticized having male and female students on the same campus and the teaching of modern scientific theories like Darwinism, the king summarily fired his ass. It may seem a small thing, but many big social processes start small. Most Americans forget that Princeton U. did not become coed until 1969.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x106573

[Violet_Crumble]

37. No, but is there anything that was said that was incorrect? I don't think there was n/t

[FLAprogressive]

26. K&R before this gets dungeoned!

[Ikonoklast]

28. Huge stone thrown from the largest glass house on Earth.

The House of Saud has little room to criticise anyone on anything.

[47of74]

32. That was one of my first thoughts too

I know that Israel is by no means perfect, and that there's a lot to be desired in the way that nation behaves. But for the Saudis to whine about them, well...blackened pots and kettles come to mind here.

[Wilms]

29. Actually, the US is the spoiled brat.

Israel's a whole 'nother thing.

[classysassy]

30. " The truth shall set you free"

let the Israeli supporter refute that statement with facts,not emotional statements just the hard facts.

[sharesunited]

31. They're your brother Sunnis Mr. Foreign Minister. Give them sanctuary.

Use your wealth to help them emigrate and establish themselves among Arabs.

Do it! No? Why not?

Is it because you value them more as your propaganda pawns?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

63. What does their religion have to do with anything? Yr post sounds like yr condoning ethnic cleasing.

You do realise that quite a few Palestinians are Christians, right?

Also, you don't seem to realise that Palestinians don't want to move to Saudi Arabia? That throws a spanner in the works for any supporters of an Arab-free Greater Israel...

[burning rain]

33. Some things are right even if the horrid regime in Riyadh is for them.

For instance, working to end Israel's settlement (imperialistic, colonial) policy.

[Hardrada]

35. Quite so.

[apocalypsehow]

39. Are they letting women drive yet? Or ceased beheading "adulterers" & "sodomites"?

:shrug:

[Violet_Crumble]

40. No, but how does that make what was said in the OP incorrect?

I know the hasbara must be strong in you, but instead of trying to divert attention away from the actual criticism of Israel, why don't you try to put up an argument as to why you think it's incorrect?

[devilgrrl]

41. or pissing off other arabs and muslims that aren't Saudi?

I don't know if anyone is aware of this? But Saudis treat all non-saudis like dirt. Ask anyone who went to Mecca for the Hajj that's from Jordan, or Pakistan, Syria... seriously!

[Violet_Crumble]

42. I was aware of that, but it's got nothing to do with whether what was said in the OP was correct.

[devilgrrl]

43. The OP very "pot calling the kettle black" IMHO.

As far as I'm concerned they're more of a problem than Israel.

[Violet_Crumble]

44. Doesn't Israel and the US do that all the time?

They bitch about human rights in other countries, while violating human rights themselves. Was there anything said in the OP by way of criticism of Israel that was incorrect?

[earth mom]

45. There is NO criticism of Israel allowed on DU.

Israel is the elephant in the room that no one can talk about.

[Violet_Crumble]

46. That's the case in the big forums, but it's allowed in the I/P forum...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=124

I can sort of understand why it's not allowed in the big forums, after seeing that rather bizarre person in this thread accuse me of antisemitism coz I defined 'non-sequitor' and supporting Wahhabism and abuse of women, even though I'm an atheist and a feminist who's appalled by the treatment of women in places like Saudi Arabia...

[IndianaGreen]

48. It's not allowed in big forums because the pro-Israel lapdogs don't want anyone to know

how our blind support for Israel has led to terrorism.

[Violet_Crumble]

50. I know there were frenzied partisans on both sides clogging up the big forums with obituaries...

I think that more than anything prompted Skinner to create a forum specially for it. Anyway, I'd love to stay and chat but I've got a meeting with my Wahhabi brothers that I have to attend where we're doing a lucky door prize where the female winner gets to be beheaded while we sit and plot how to destroy Israel while reading Mein Kampf! At least that's what I've been told I'm into! ;)

[IndianaGreen]

51. and others have said that you are a delicious candy bar

[Violet_Crumble]

53. I chose my name coz I was addicted to them!

Back when we used to have a lolly cabinet at work, I used to chomp my way through boxes of the things! *drool* :)

[IndianaGreen]

55. Yummy!

:9

[howard112211]

59. I think its more of a practical matter.

The mods just don't want to deal with the fact that such discussions usually dissolve into flamefests quickly. I don't blame them.

[liberal_at_heart]

47. I'm beginning to notice that

What's really weird is that while most Americans think that Isreal can do no wrong Isrealis themselves critique their government just as harhsly as we do ours. The people were very upset at how the Isreali government and army handled the latest Lebennon war, and I've heard that some are questioning the army's very aggresive shoot anything that moves policy.

[old mark]

49. Israel is surounded by agressors who have sworn to kill it since it began.

Fuck the Saudi pigs, and fuck all the anti Israelis.

mark

[Violet_Crumble]

52. A little bit of knowledge about the conflict would help you out a lot...

Two of Israel's neigbours have peace treaties with it, so fuck all the anti-Arab wankers who don't know what the fuck they're going on about.

Violet...

[IndianaGreen]

54. The US should get out of the Middle East

Without US, Israel will either make peace or self-destruct.

[Douglas Carpenter]

60. The Arab Peace Plan - unanimously supported by the entire Arab League and endorsed by the PLO

The Arab Peace Initiative, 2002

http://www.al-bab.com/Arab/docs/league/peace02.htm

Official translation of the full text of a Saudi-inspired peace plan adopted by the Arab summit in Beirut, 2002.

The Arab Peace Initiative

The Council of Arab States at the Summit Level at its 14th Ordinary Session,

Reaffirming the resolution taken in June 1996 at the Cairo Extra-Ordinary Arab Summit that a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East is the strategic option of the Arab countries, to be achieved in accordance with international legality, and which would require a comparable commitment on the part of the Israeli government,

Having listened to the statement made by his royal highness Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz, crown prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in which his highness presented his initiative calling for full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967, in implementation of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, reaffirmed by the Madrid Conference of 1991 and the land-for-peace principle, and Israel's acceptance of an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, in return for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel,

Emanating from the conviction of the Arab countries that a military solution to the conflict will not achieve peace or provide security for the parties, the council:

1. Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well.

2. Further calls upon Israel to affirm:

I- Full Israeli withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the June 4, 1967 lines as well as the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon.

II- Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194.

III- The acceptance of the establishment of a sovereign independent Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital.

3. Consequently, the Arab countries affirm the following:

I- Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region.

II- Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace.

4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries.

5. Calls upon the government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighbourliness and provide future generations with security, stability and prosperity.

6. Invites the international community and all countries and organisations to support this initiative.

7. Requests the chairman of the summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the secretary general of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim states and the European Union.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Kurska]

73. That plan requires the right of return, flooding Israel with millions of Palestinians.

Basicly another way to destroy it, that plan is completely untenable.

[Violet_Crumble]

83. Right of return doesn't require that at all...

Sorry, but that's just fearmongering nonsense. The Arab Peace plan states it must be a "just solution" which has to be agreed upon using resolution 194 as a basis. That to people who understand what right of return is about means repatriation, compensation and return for an agreed number of refugees.

[Douglas Carpenter]

84. pretty much everyone realizes that the right of return will require

a compromise, involving compensation, a return of a certain negotiable number to Israel proper and resettlement of refugees either to the West Bank or a third country.

This was acknowledged by Arafat and the Palestinian leadership at Taba and was publicly aknowledged by Arafat in an Editorial in the New York Times.

The Arab Peace Plan states, " Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194". In other words, there is significant room for negotiations.

[shira]

85. that's always been the plan - to flood Israel - and here's MUST READ proof it's still the plan

http://zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2009/12/haaretz-hebrew-why-peace-agreement-with.html

"The suggestion in some circles, that the PLO will eventually give up on the "right of return" but will only announce this at the very last moment, is not supported by facts on the ground: the very last moment has already passed twice - in 2000 and in 2009....

Those who urge Israel to reach an agreement with the PLO "now" should explain what they suggest doing if negotiations are resumed, as the PLO is demanding, at precisely the point where they left off in 2008. There is no indication that the PLO agrees now to terms it declined a year ago, and hence it is clear that in this situation the PLO will make additional demands. Those who prod us should suggest what else Israel is expected to concede? I have not heard an answer to this question, except for mutterings "but we have to try." As long as Fatah does not fundamentally change its platform, there will be no Zionist faction in Israel that is capable of reaching a final-status agreement with it.

Reality must not be artificially beautified. This is indeed a regrettable situation, but we cannot allow it to cause despair. As was the case 100 years ago, our future in our land does not depend on the ill-will of our neighbors' leadership. It is in our hands. We have proven that."

http://www.zionism-israel.com/log/archives/00000724.html

Every poll of Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza found that 80-90% insist on Right of Return for the refugees, no matter how the question was asked, and whatever the prospects for peace may have been at the time. For example a poll by PCPO in 2008:

Responding to the question: "Do you believe that the Palestinians should be obliged to waive their right of home return in exchange for the establishment of an independent Palestinian state and the conclusion of a peace agreement with Israel ?", (89.8 %) answered "Palestinians shouldn't agree to that, even if the price would be the non-conclusion of an agreement with the Israelis", whilst only (6.8 %) said "Palestinians should agree to that", and (3.3 %) answered "I don't know".

Regarding the additional question:" Should the Palestinian leadership agree to the waiver of the Right of Home Return in exchange of the monetary compensation, would you accept or refuse that?" (89.5 %) answered "I would refuse that", whilst only (7.3 %) said "I would accept that", and (3.2 %) answered "I don't know".

[polly7]

76. it's got nothing to do with being anti anyone, it's empathy for an imprisoned, tortured people. nt.

[bridgit]

56. In today's world? That's fair enough. There's plenty of shit to spread on this toast ~

[Vidar]

57. Plenty of "spoiled children" on all sides of that eternal conflict, including we

"exceptional" Americans.

[LeftishBrit]

58. Bit much coming from Saudi Arabia...

They get away with anything because of their oil!

The Israeli government at the moment are unfortunately a bunch of RW nuts. But I don't think the Saudis have a moral high ground here.

[azurnoir]

65. Just who in your opinion is "clean" enough to critize

or even stand up to Israel I have seen comments on other countries that did not make the cut so speak including the UK and also I believe the US, by that standard Nuremberg should never have happened as at least some the prosecution was from countries who had quite arguably committed war crimes themselves

[LeftishBrit]

68. Anyone has the right to criticize...

but I still find a rich irony in *Saudia Arabia* of all places accusing any other country of being allowed by the world to get away with things!

There might be truth in calling Israel 'America's spoiled child' but it definitely isn't 'the world's', whereas to a large extent Saudi Arabia is.

[Violet_Crumble]

66. It's not about moral highground. The criticism was legit and imo correct n.t

[shira]

77. maybe the Saudi FM should ask Abbas why he rejected Olmert's offer in 2008

Olmert offered a 1 for 1 swap of around 6.5% of W.Bank land with land from Israel, along with half of Jerusalem, a compensation package and limited RoR. The future Palestinian state would have been made up of 100% of the land area that existed in the W.Bank and Gaza from 1948-1967.

Why was that rejected, Mr. Saudi FM?

Besides, if built-up settlement areas become part of a future Palestine, what's the problem?

How's about getting off your ass and push the Arab league to allow Palestinian Arab refugees the choice to live in any Arab country they wish....the same right other Arabs have under existing naturalization laws? Instead of seeing to it that millions of refugees keep suffering in their camps? Talk about a major crime against humanity!

This kind of Hamas/PLO retard propaganda only works on useful idiots and haters.

[varelse]

78. Doesn't the US have that title locked up already?

:shrug: