Patience is not always a virtue

[rini]

THEY AIN'T MAKIN' JEWS LIKE JESUS ANYMORE

by Judson Cox

All right, I admit it, I'm not a nice guy. In the words of Billy Joe Shaver, I'm "lonesome, on'ry and mean." In fact, I don't pretend to be a nice guy; if I pretend at all, I try to give the impression that I am a dangerous hillbilly that should not be messed with. I'll even quote the movie "Deliverance" from time to time, just to drive home that point. In all honesty though, I'm not that bad; I'm just a normal American man. The other day, though, while Palestinians were shooting little Jewish girls and refusing to stop terrorist attacks on the "road to peace," it hit me just how much better most Israelis are than I.

If, for instance, Canada were to declare war on the United States, and if crazed Canadians were bombing grocery stores and shooting American children in the street, I'd get mad. I would do exactly what most red blooded American men would do: I'd strap on my big, magnum revolver, grab my shot gun and deer rifle, and drive to Canada. There, I would attempt to kill ten Canadians for every American killed. For around two hundred years, that has been the American way; and, it worked. Think of the bloody battles of the Revolutionary War, the Indian wars, or Sherman's raid on the South; Sherman burned whole cities to the ground, and killed men, women and children just like the generals of history before him. Think of the wars of attrition and the mass bombing raids of World War I, or of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki that ended World War II. America has a history of making it clear to our enemies, that if they mess with us, they will arouse a "sleeping giant" that will trample them into the mud. It is only with the advent of modern weapons that allow precision targeting that we have changed our tactics of warfare. Mass civilian casualties used to be a given in any war. Now, our technology allows a more humanitarian morality.

The Palestinian terrorists have no morality that can be understood by most members of Western Civilization. They hide in neighborhoods and target civilians; they have no concept of collateral damage. Were I an Israeli, I would bring the war home to them in the violent terms that they understand. The Israelis, however, do not do that. While the Palestinians target civilians, Israeli's target only terrorists. According to many polls, most Israelis don't even want to do that. Kinky Friedman's song may say, "they ain't makin' Jews like Jesus anymore," but the Israelis are better at turning the other cheek than most Christians, and most people in general. I simply cannot understand the morality that allows your enemies to kill your friends and family with impunity. Not only is this what the Israelis do, but it is what the world demands of them. If any of us were to abandon our dichotomous ethics regarding this conflict, we would say to the Israelis, "You've given them every chance, go ahead and nuke the bastards before they destroy you!"

http://haganah.org.il/israel /

[ForestsBeatBushes]

1. Excellent Op-Ed!

This bears singling out and re-posting:

The Palestinian terrorists have no morality that can be understood by most members of Western Civilization. They hide in neighborhoods and target civilians; they have no concept of collateral damage. Were I an Israeli, I would bring the war home to them in the violent terms that they understand. The Israelis, however, do not do that. While the Palestinians target civilians, Israeli's target only terrorists. According to many polls, most Israelis don't even want to do that. Kinky Friedman's song may say, "they ain't makin' Jews like Jesus anymore," but the Israelis are better at turning the other cheek than most Christians, and most people in general. I simply cannot understand the morality that allows your enemies to kill your friends and family with impunity. Not only is this what the Israelis do, but it is what the world demands of them. If any of us were to abandon our dichotomous ethics regarding this conflict, we would say to the Israelis, "You've given them every chance, go ahead and nuke the bastards before they destroy you!"

As so many on this board post: double standard!

[bluesoul]

7. This guy

forgets to mention everything that Palestinians have to go through daily because of the IDF, and the settlements and occupation (which is not the case with USA/Canada and a bunch of other things that have to do with the Palestinian/Israeli conflict that go against him.

My god Forrests, you agree with this RW venom?

[rini]

13. I beg to disagree

the Palestinians go through what they do because:
1. their leaders are terrorists
2. terrorists use civilians as shields
3. the people rarely (they are scared) refuse to stop cooperating with terrorists

Stop the terror

[Aidoneus]

17. now, that's just uncompetitive

Columnists at Arutz Sheva would've been able to cram in some variation on "terror" at least 4-5 more times in such a space. Work harder if you wish to be taken seriously in your chosen field.

[bluesoul]

18. Agreed

This stereotyped RW BS type of excuses aren't to be taken seriously.

[bluesoul]

11. And this part is the best

"You've given them every chance, go ahead and nuke the bastards before they destroy you!"

I am sure the author would love to do it. But this is a progressive board and luckily most of us don't agree with this kind of neoconservative extreme-RW mentality and excuses...

[Aidoneus]

2. a subtle 'fyi' for now

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-...

if I become more ambitious later, excoriating [e-mail]'s work and the chosen medium would not be difficult.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rini]

6. please address the article

not the messenger.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Aidoneus]

20. I take it back

this rubbish isn't worth the effort; my subtle references to the message behind consistantly chosen preferences will have to suffice.

[Darranar]

3. I assume...

constant incursions and raids with a considerable level of civilian causalties, added to no concvessiosn on settlement growth, is turning the other cheek?

Ariel Sharon's ethnic cleansing and oppression of the Palestinians isn't turning the other cheek.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluesoul]

8. Sorry

This article is as one-sided as it can possible be, not even trying to see from the other perspective and things going on. You cannot expect me to take this seriously Forrests..

[bluesoul]

9. This claim

is especially interesting: "While the Palestinians target civilians, Israeli's target only terrorists. "

How come then 3 times more civilians are killed by the IDF then the Palestinians? No they don't target them, the most moral army on planet earth would never do that. Except for one thing, they're not the most moral army on earth ,far from it, sorry

[rini]

14. because the cowards

hide among civilians.not to difficukt to realise that = casualties by chance, not design.

[bluesoul]

16. Nice try

Doesn't work. Justifying IDF war crimes

[Jim Sagle]

19. Self-defense isn't war crimes.

[ForestsBeatBushes]

21. Source, please, Mr. Sagle.

[bluesoul]

22. Wrong mr Sagle

Bombing a highly populated civilian area, or a rocket that kills many innocent civilians isn't self-defense. Maybe in your world...

[Darranar]

23. And war crimes aren't self-defense.

[ForestsBeatBushes]

24. However, even without a source,

self-defense is indeed NOT a war crime.

[bluesoul]

25. And just

how are the Palestinians supposed to defend themselves from Israeli occupation, illegal settlements, the military dominance (aided by billions from the USA)? They can't, so desperate measures are all that remains to them hoping once the Israeli public will realize what their policy is doing...

[Darranar]

27. Suicide bombings are far more then "desperate measures"...

and even if they were, the butchery of innocent people still wouldn't be justified.

[bluesoul]

28. I totally agree

Darranar. But if one says that what Israel does is self defense, then by such logic what Palestinians do is also self-defense. Personally I only consider the attacks on the IDF in the OT self defense (and legitimate), and certainly not "terrorism" or "murder" as was implied in some RW articles..

[Darranar]

29. Agreed completely...

condemnation of one should be matched by condemnation of the other, and support for one should be matched by support for the other to avoid hypocrisy. Though in my opinion, the moral view of this conflict is condemnation of both Israel's "self-defense" and the Palestinians' "self-defense" when it crosses the line to inhumanitairan tactics.

The most workable version of defense is peace. Inhumanitarian tactics bring war, not peace.

[bluesoul]

30. Needless

to say, and for you!

[The Magistrate]

34. The Invocation Of 'Self-Defense', Mr. Soul

Is something of a red herring. The right of self-defense does not include a liscence to commit crimes. Military actions aimed solely at killing enemy civilians are, beyond any argument, crimes of war: military actions aimed at killing enemy combatants, which also kill some enemy civilians, may or may not be crimes, depending on one's judgement of several admittedly subjective factors, such as the military gain of the act, and the degree of care exercised. Consideration is complicated by the fact that it is a war crime to take up positions using one's own civilian populace for cover.

As recent events have shown, it is not beyond the power of the various armed Arab Palestinian bodies to strike with some effect against Israeli soldiers. It cannot be claimed they have no other possible option besides aiming attacks directly against enemy civilians. That is a choice, and a criminal choice, made freely.

[Lurking Dem]

31. They were SUPPOSED to

live up to the agreements they made when they established the PA and got A and B areas by rounding up terrorist cells and proving they could run an interim government.

THAT'S how they were supposed to defend themselves.

[rini]

32. Truth and facts

tend to get in the way of opinions! Go figure?

[Darranar]

26. Of course not.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lithos]

33. Locking

Inflammatory article which spawned an inflammatory debate.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground

[Lithos]

40. Going to try this again

L-

[bemildred]

35. It doesn't seem to be locked?

Since that is the case I would like to say that the subject
of this thread: "Patience is not always a virtue" is dumb on
its face. The fellow is basically saying that sometimes its
good to go off half-cocked and just blow up some random shit.
The chance that instinctive lashing out with massive force will
fix anything is vanishingly small, and it is only adaptive when
one is already in a situation near immediate destruction, in
the small hope that it may stave off that destruction. For the
record it has been tried many times, mostly by people this fellow
might not like to be associated with, and with generally rotten
results.

[Aidoneus]

36. there are some bizarre contradictions

in one breath,
...The Palestinian terrorists have no morality that can be understood by most members of Western Civilization....
in another,
..."You've given them every chance, go ahead and nuke the bastards before they destroy you!"...

What is one to clean from this sort except that he deems "Western civilization" infinitely more genocidal--and thus superior--than these "terrorists"? It slogs along in a similar schizophrenic fashion, throwing in some slapdash anti-immigration rhetoric later on.

[bluesoul]

37. In my honest opinion

it's nuthin but RW BS. There...

[bemildred]

38. I think this fellow is more in the business of

feeding drool to angry mushheads than formulating a
reasonable argument in any case, and no doubt it pays
his bills.

[bluesoul]

39. Couldn't say it

any better!