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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:10 PM
Original message
Netanyahu enters Sweden organ row
Source: BBC News

Israel's prime minister has urged the Swedish government to condemn a Swedish newspaper article that claimed Israeli troops killed Palestinians for organs.

Benjamin Netanyahu joins broad Israeli criticism of the Aftonbladet paper over the claims troops took organs to sell.

An Israeli official quoted him saying: "Statements in the Swedish press were outrageous. We are not expecting an apology - we expect condemnation."

Sweden has refused to condemn the article, citing freedom of expression.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8217042.st...
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Anyone want to start the countdown till this is thrown into the i/p dungeon?
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Maybe we can post the protocols of zion in latest breaking news /nt
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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. You mean Palestinians don't routinely wake up completely naked in a bathtub filled with ice...
with a note to get immediate medical attention?


Snopes bust another myth!
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Obviously organs filled with bullet holes and shrapnel are in high demand on the internal market.
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 02:23 PM by Kurska
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Good if sad and grisly point
and I suppose battlefields are always attended by transplant surgeons with all the latest technology to preserve people's organs until they can be used.

There is enough to criticize the Israelis for, without making things up, especially things that are so gruesome and ridiculous at the same time.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Why don't Israelis trust Europeans to negotiate a peace?
I just don't understand... :eyes:
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Europaeans aren't their tabloid writers, any more than Americans are their talk-show hosts.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
32. OK, so where are the major European antiracist, humanitarian groups condemning all this?
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 10:48 AM by shira
3 European articles just in the past 2 weeks about organ harvesting, nazi Gaza ghettos, and satan worshipping Jews.

Met by silence from all the major antiracist, humanitarians who'd be shrieking if all this were aimed at any other ethnic group.

Bibi and Lieberman may very well be poor examples of proper advocates standing up against racism and bigotry, but who else is out there condemning all this?

And if it's silly to condemn this publicly, is it silly for any other ethnic group or advocates of any ethnic group to do the same?

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. It was a bullshit article, without any merit. There is plenty to criticize Israel for
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 02:49 PM by still_one
but to make shit up is just plain garbage






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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Off topic but similarly
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 03:43 PM by dipsydoodle
There may have been plenty to criticise Iraq for but that didn't stop the USA's Congress falling for what was subsequently proven to be a complete pack lies about Iragi troops turfing babies out of their incubators in Kuwait and that was the vote which finalised authorisaton for the war with Iraq.

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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Yes, and this is an example of why the tabloid crap can be so dangerous..
if picked up by people already looking for an excuse for violence.

In the UK, as you know, the tabloids tend to demonize immigrants, asylum seekers, and gays, single mothers, and others not conforming to a 50s idea of conventional 'morality'.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. But the Iraq issue
wasn't the press. It was the daughter of the Kuwaiti Ambbassador to the USA lying through her teeth - as she subsequnetly admitted as she shrugged her shoulders - hope she rots in hell.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. How did the NY investigations end up? Make that NJ.
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 05:21 PM by peacetalksforall
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Agreed
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hmorehead Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. And I thought it was purely for sport
Isreali treatment of the Palestinian people is so abysmal that a rumor of organ harvesting gets fair traction. Ironicaly, there has been at least one case of organs of a Palestinian youth being transplanted into an Isreali child. The Palestinian parents trying to salvage some sense from the tragedy inflicted on Palestine. Natenyahu has to see how a rumor like this seems plausible when he himself oversaw some terribly deadly outrages in Palestinian refugee camps by Ireali armed forces.
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes! Israel is to blame when swedish journalist have so sense of journalistic integrity.
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 04:15 PM by Kurska
And print anything possible to demonize Israel without checking their facts or even considering their source.
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hmorehead Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
30. Isreal does a marvalous job of demonizing itself
it needs no help from the Swedes or anybody else. Why have Palestinian children died at a rate of 6 or more to each one of Isreali children? When blocks of houses in refugee camps where no one has been allowed to leave are bulldozed killing mostly women and children it requires not much of a stretch to believe other claims true or not.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/nyt-report.html
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. Rabbi Caught in New Jersey Corruption Sting Called Himself Kidney 'Matchmaker'
Saturday, July 25, 2009
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534838,00.html

NEWARK, N.J. Levy Izhak Rosenbaum of Brooklyn called himself a "matchmaker," but his business wasn't romance.

Instead, authorities say, he brokered the sale of black-market kidneys, buying organs from vulnerable people from Israel for $10,000 and selling them to desperate patients in the U.S. for as much as $160,000.

The alleged decade-long scheme, exposed this week by an FBI sting, rocked the nation's transplant industry. If true, it would be the first documented case of organ trafficking in the U.S., transplant experts said Friday.

"There's certainly cross-national activity, but it hasn't touched the United States or we haven't known about it until now," said University of Pennsylvania medical ethicist Arthur Caplan, who is co-directing a U.N. task force on international organ trafficking.

Rosenbaum was arrested Thursday, 10 days after meeting in his basement with a government informant and an FBI agent posing as the informant's secretary. The agent claimed to be searching for a kidney for a sick uncle on dialysis who was on a transplant list at a Philadelphia hospital.
<SNIP>
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. You're a real piece of work using a Israeli voluntarily selling a kidney for money to justify
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 05:41 PM by Kurska
blood libel.

Oh but those evil jews, if they'd sell their own organs on the blakcmarket WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY MIGHT DO. I'm sure plenty of Romanians and Russians have sold their organs, are you going to accuse their governments of Organ dealng?
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. The BBC article doesn't say the Israeli government dealt in organs
And in the Rosenbaum case, it has never been stated what the ethnic backgound was of the Israelis who sold their kidneys.

Were they Jewish Israelis, Arab Israelis, immigrants from Russia, Ukraine, etc.? It seems to have all been hushed up.
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. "All hushed up" You're absolutely pathetic, quit trying to link these two articles.
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 06:06 PM by Kurska
Is there no libel foes of Israel won't commit, is there no low that you people won't go to?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. What has that got to do with the story in the Swedish paper?
This is about people selling their *own* organs, not killing others for their organs. Big difference.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. It establishes that there is a black market for illegal kidneys in Israel
Selling of organs is illegal. It is unlawful for the donor of an organ to receive compensation for making the donation. That is the law in the US, and I believe that it is also true in Israel.

So their already would exist a criminal network into which kidneys extracted from prisoners could be sold.

For a fuller article on Rosenbaum see http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090724/health/health...

"Nancy Scheper-Hughes, an anthropology professor at the University of California at Berkeley and the author of an upcoming book on human organ trafficking, said that she has been tracking the Brooklyn-connected ring for 10 years and that her contacts in Israel have called Rosenbaum "the top man" in the United States. "

and

"Scheper-Hughes said her research has uncovered hundreds of cases of illegal organ transactions brokered by and for Israelis in Israel, South Africa, Turkey and other countries, with sellers recruited from poor communities in Moldova, Brazil and elsewhere."
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. There is a illegal market for kidneys in EVERY COUNTRY.
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 08:17 PM by Kurska
That is how the black market works.

Your flimsy attempts to try and link the actions of a private citizen to some kind of illegal act of the greater Israeli government are utterly transparent.

There is not a single shred of hard evidence anywhere that the IDF steals organs from Palestinians. It is utterly disgusting irresponsible journalism of the worst kind publishing a story like this considering the history of the jewish people.

You're "Speculating" in a area that has been used to trash the jewish people for centuries and actually resulted in murderous violence against jewish communities in Europe.

Maybe I should start "Speculating" that muslim countries are kidnapping white children, afterall some kidnappers are Muslims.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #20
31. grab a clue you little genius. There is a global market for organs
duh. your feeble attempts to claim legitimacy for the Swedish story which presented not a shred of evidence by linking it to a wholly unrelated U.S. story, is not only moronic, it's ugly. cut it the fuck out, dearie.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. he was pointing out an uncomfortable fact honey
the ugliness here is on your part again
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. uh, no, darling. he was not. but hey, of course someone
who spews the whole Khazar crap like you, would say that. You do love to latch onto ugly and defamatory, sweetie.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. The whole Khazar crap?
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 01:25 PM by azurnoir
you mean that a 1000 years a bunch of Russian s converted willingly to Judaism? or that along the way someone wrote an antiSemetic diatribe about it, which Oberliner pointed out, and I had never heard of prior
get a clue Cali your posts here and on other forums are hateful and ugly and I am not alone in that opinion

and BTW see post #34
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. How typical when called on your hate spew you run away n/t
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. I found the article in Aftonbladet and it starts out with the Rosenbaum case
And goes from there to describe the illegal transplant industry in Israel. Then it describes the allegations that Palestinians are being killed and organs removed.

It would seem simple to exhume some bodies and determine the truth or falsity of the story. The international Red Cross should be up to the job.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/kultur/article5652583.ab
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Um, you are aware that internal organs turn to slush a few days after being buried right?
You remind me of a story I once heard, it went something like this.
Two businessmen had a falling out and the first one was determined to smear the other ones name to punish him. The first one began spreading the story around town that second' ones wife and daughter were well known whores and a harlots. Eventually the second one confronted him and said "You smear me, I am a widower and my daughter is only 5", the second one chimed in "Then why are you afraid of investigating the matter!".
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Then let the Palestinians to conduct autopsies of dead Palestinians
Which appear to be forbidden now.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
21. Is Sweden in the Middle East now ?
Somebody had better tell Norway I guess. :sarcasm:
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
24. Lieberman wrongly stirring scandal over Sweden article
Not far from the memorial square in the Yad Vashem compound in Jerusalem, a white vehicle is parked part bus, part ambulance. It is one of 36 such vehicles that were used during the final weeks of World War II for the transfer of thousands of Nazi concentration camp prisoners from Germany to Sweden.

The official Web site of Yad Vashem states the convoy of vehicles rescued some 27,000 prisoners from Germany, including several thousand Jews, mostly women. The historian Yehuda Bauer says some 21,000 persons were rescued this way, and among them were 6,500 Jews.

The diplomatic scandal that Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman stirred over the article in the Swedish daily Aftonbladet is wrong since the government of a state that respects the freedom of the press is not responsible for what newspapers publish. That there was a demand for the Swedish government to condemn the article in question suggests Lieberman must still be thinking in Soviet terms.

The comparison between Swedens refusal to condemn the article and its alleged silence during the Holocaust will not further Israels foreign policy any more than the racist ideology of Yisrael Beiteinu.

From a historic point of view, too, the ministers claims are misplaced. Swedens King Gustav V demanded of the Hungarian ruler at the time, Admiral Miklos Horthy, that the Jews in Hungary not be expelled. What is much more important is that Sweden saved the lives of some 20,000 Jews.


http://antiisgood.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/lieberman-wr... /

IMO this is an attempt to create a hyperbolic distraction over a tabloid article that would by now be otherwise forgotten
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Shoah survivor: Swedes are the ones who saved me
Golda Zandman, 89, who arrived in Sweden after Holocaust, finds it difficult to understand Lieberman's remarks against Scandinavian country. Yad Vashem historian: Foreign minister's statements inaccurate

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3766072,00.ht...

<snip>

"Several Holocaust survivors were stunned last weekend by remarks made by Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, who slammed the Swedish government last week over its refusal to condemn a newspaper which accused the Israel Defense Forces of harvesting Palestinians' organs.

"It's a shame that the Swedish Foreign Ministry fails to intervene in a case of blood libels against Jews. This is reminiscent of Sweden's stand during World War II, when had failed to intervene as well," Lieberman had said.

Golda Zandman, an 89-year-old Holocaust survivor, who arrived in Israel largely thanks to the Swedish government, was amazed by this statement. "It's simply not true the Swedes are not anti-Semites," she told Ynet on Sunday. "There is no such thing in Sweden. But what would Lieberman know about it? He emigrated from Russia."
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
28. How childish are we?
Israel erred in giving so much attention to silly Swedish tabloid report

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3765929,00.ht...

<snip>

"The so-called "investigative report" published by the Swedish Aftonbladet was, needless to say, ridiculously false. Anyone with the intelligence of a child recognized this immediately, including many Swedish newspaper editors and reporters, who have denounced Aftonbladet for printing such unfounded nonsense.

So why is Israel reacting like this?

Left unheeded, the "report" would have withered and passed silently away, like the puff of hot air it so obviously impersonates. But thanks to Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, Ambassador Benny Dagan, and now the newly involved GPO chief Danny Seaman who has revoked the Aftonbladet reporter's pass to Gaza and called for a blood test to see if he is eligible for organ donation Israel is now engaged in a very childish battle with the Swedes.

By commenting on the report at all, we may leave the world wondering whether the lady dost protest too much. In demanding that Swedish officials comment on the report, we are not only insulting their intelligence by asking them to stoop to the level of a tabloid; we are also insulting their values while implying anti-Semitic motives are at play - similarly to the tabloid publication itself, this is totally unfounded."

<snip>

"The Swedish government has politely told Israel it would not intervene in this ridiculous affair, and by doing so placed the matter quietly and expediently in its place squarely within the irrelevant realm of tabloid media. Israel, on the other hand, has elevated the issue to a level of global significance and thus sparked a diplomatic incident with a friendly country."
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
34. Swedish tabloid runs follow-up 'organ harvesting' article
Bethlehem - Ma'an - Despite Israel's explosive reaction to its first story that alleged soldiers had "harvested" organs from Palestinian detainees, a leading Swedish tabloid ran a second article in its Sunday edition.

The Swedish daily Aftonbladet made similarly bizarre accusations in its follow-up story, quoting family members who claimed a 19-year-old Palestinian's organs were removed from his body following the teen's death in 1992.

Relatives of the Palestinian, identified as Bilal Ahmad Ghanem from the northern West Bank, said the body was returned days after his shooting death with a scar running from his neck down to his abdomen. Bilal's mother speculated that the scar was evidence of foul play.

"It was the middle of the night. The soldiers caused an electrical power outage in the entire village. Bilal was returned in a black bag; he had no teeth. The body was stitched from the neck all the way down to the abdomen," the mother said, according to the paper.

Family members also said the military demanded they pay 5,000 Israeli shekels (about 1,300 US dollars) for the boy's body, and that it was eventually returned about a week later.

While the first article was not taken particularly seriously, the Israeli government and many leading officials condemned the report as a "blood libel" against Jews, in general, rather than the soldiers accused in the report. Israel's foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, declared that the article reminded him of Sweden's neutrality in World War II, and its alleged indifference to the Jewish Holocaust.

"It's a shame that the Swedish Foreign Ministry fails to intervene in a case of blood libels against Jews. This is reminiscent of Sweden's stand during World War II, when it failed to intervene as well," Lieberman said, according to the Hebrew-language daily Yedioth Ahronoth.

"The Swedish government crossed a red line when it did not condemn the article," added Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. "We do not want the Swedish government to apologize, we want it to issue a condemnation."

Other Israeli ministers expressed their outrage, including Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz, who said Swedish officials refusing to condemn the article "may not be welcome in the State of Israel," according to The Jerusalem Post.

Interior Minister Eli Yishai said he would prevent the tabloid's reporters from receiving work permits in Israel, while Welfare and Social Services Minister Isaac Herzog urged Israeli officials to take legal action against the paper, the Post reported.

In Sweden, representatives of the country's pro-Israel groups urged Israeli officials to calm down.

"The calls from the Israeli government to the Swedish government to distance itself from or to comment on the article, for me are difficult to believe and don't help the relations," said Gunnar Hokmark, president of the Swedish-Israel Friendship Association.

Hokmark added in an interview with the Post, "Making the article a conflict between the two governments, as I see Lieberman doing, to me is unwise. And I'm saying this as a strong friend of Israel."

Meanwhile, Aftonbladet's chief editor, Jan Helin, rejected Israeli claims that he or his paper were motivated by a hatred of Jews, rather than the specific allegations made in the report.

"I'm not a Nazi. I'm not anti-Semitic," wrote Helin in an op-ed published on Sunday. "I'm a responsible editor who gave the green light to an article because it raises a few questions."


http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=221139
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