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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:52 AM
Original message
Hanan Ashrawi and the Price of Dissent
by Antony Loewenstein
October 23, 2003



It's not easy advocating Palestinian rights. Edward Said frequently commented upon the constant abuse he had received throughout his life. Upon his death, the Anti-Defamation Commission (ADC) in Australia (related to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) in America) renounced Said as 'anti-American and anti-Semitic'. Supporting Palestinian self-determination, critiquing Israeli Government policy and questioning Zionist history was seemingly enough to incur the wrath of Jewish groups around the world.

Hanan Ashrawi is currently finding herself in similar straits in Australia. The Sydney Peace Foundation, associated with the University of Sydney, recently decided to award Dr Ashrawi its annual peace prize. Previous winners have included the East Timorese leader Xanana Gusmao in 2000 and Archbishop Desmond Tutu in 1999. What originally appeared to be an uncontroversial choice has developed into a full-blown battle between the Peace Foundation, elements of the Jewish lobby, the New South Wales premier, Bob Carr and the Jewish press. The issue in my opinion, however, is not simply the prize, but a more fundamental debate around Palestinian identity in Australia. I believe it is nothing less than an attempt by the Jewish community to delegitimize the Palestinian cause. This kind of behaviour is becoming a regrettably common Zionist ploy in the Western world for increasingly transparent reasons.

Since the announcement of the prize to Ashrawi, Jewish groups have begun a campaign to firstly discredit the high-profile winner, and then to convince Premier Carr that attending the ceremony on November 6 would be, in the words of Gerald Steinberg, an associate professor of political studies at Bar Ilan University, "honouring war, murder and hatred, while debasing the concept of peace and reconciliation". Incidentally, Professor Steinberg launched a petition to stop Ashrawi receiving the prestigious award and received nearly 4000 signatures. The Australian Jewish News (AJN), the sole Jewish community newspaper in Australia, wrote in its editorial on October 17, that "an Australian premier is about to present a peace prize to an apologist for terrorismThe problem is not that Premier Carr is meeting Dr Ashrawi; on the contrary, the more engagement there is, the greater the chance of achieving a solution. The problem is that by presenting her with the prize, he is endorsing her track record."

Her track record, according to the AJN, is thwarting the Oslo peace deals in the 1990s, not condemning Hamas as a terrorist organization and suggesting Jews living in the West Bank are legitimate targets for Palestinian aggression. All these comments are a misappropriation of the truth. Dr Ashrawi was clearly aware of virulent anti-Palestinian and anti-Arab feeling in the Australian Jewish community, as her comments to the Sydney Morning Herald on October 23 suggested: "I knew there would be mobilised voices trying to malign Palestinians, particularly ones like me who have been outspoken for peace."

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=4...

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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. Excerpted from your article, "in the words of Gerald Steinberg":
Peace studies, like human rights, humanitarian relief and international law, are noble causes that have been abused and perverted to support hatred, terror and war. On many university campuses, peace studies and conflict resolution programs have become part of the campaign to demonize Israel and support Palestinian incitement and the rejectionist ideologies that provide the foundation of terrorism.

In a blatant example of Orwellian newspeak, in which war has been disguised as peace, the Sydney Peace Foundation at the University of Sydney in Australia has decided to award its annual peace prize to Hanan Ashrawi in November.

This action not only sanctions and rewards the terrorism and violence of the PLO and President Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority, in which Ashrawi has served as a cabinet minister, but is an endorsement of violence that she has advocated. Ashrawi is a central figure in the Palestinian propaganda machine and an eloquent defender of Palestinian atrocities. MIFTAH, a non-governmental organization in which she is centrally involved, is a major purveyor of hatred and venom (see www.ngo-monitor.org ).

In the campaign to delegitimize the Jewish state (the modern version of anti-Semitism), Ashrawi indeed deserves a prize.

<cut>


http://faculty.biu.ac.il/~steing/conflict/oped/0904-1.h...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. That is absurd.
links, please on "...more than any other nation on earth..."






NEVER AGAIN



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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Admirable ??
"an Australian premier is about to present a peace prize to an apologist for terrorismThe problem is not that Premier Carr is meeting Dr Ashrawi; on the contrary, the more engagement there is, the greater the chance of achieving a solution. The problem is that by presenting her with the prize, he is endorsing her track record."

thats says it all for me.

Hanan can take that prize and shove it.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Shoving it
I am sure there wouldn't be a single Palestinian worthy of such award in your mind since they'r all terrorist apologets anyway, like the late Ed Said, right?
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. About Edward Said
http://www.secularislam.org/articles/debunking.htm

you want some even stronger opinions, I could post them from Jewish sites; but,then the messenger would simply be attacked, so why bother?
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Oh well
Hey I could find a thousand links about Sharon only that they have to do with real life monstrousities but I guess that wouldn't change your mind that he's actually a "security" PM suitable for Israel. Move on...
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. That's interesting.
Edited on Mon Nov-03-03 01:43 PM by ForestsBeatBushes
However, I never said nor gave the impression you have assigned to me concerning Sharon. Do you always project?
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. I respect this group of securlarist
but they look like a bunch of dupes when they interfere with the Palestinians issue, which has nothing to do with Islamism, and everything to do with the occupation. I really must question their judgement when they do stuff like that.
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-03 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
37. Now THAT is a scary threat....
Given your proven ability to barrage this forum with endless posts.

Jeez.
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-03 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Don't be afraid.
When one is trying to hold one's own while on a forum where your own POV is outnumbered 10 to 1, sometimes it's necessary to post a bit more. If all the people who mention on other forums their utter disgust for what passes for dialogue here would just come here and join in, it wouldn't be that way.

I'm beginning to feel you and others who believe as you do are so set in your ways that I might join the majority of DUers and just avoid I/P altogether as well.

See? Happy now? You (the collective you) have made it so odious to be on this forum that eventually you'll merely be yes'ing each other endlessly. Oh, wait, that's what goes on now; however, we won't have to put up with it.

If Democratic Underground better mirrored the Democratic party, this stuff just wouldn't be acceptable, but that's life.

Now, instead of a threat, I've given you a hope. I might just disappear...
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-03 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Hold on FBB
Edited on Fri Nov-07-03 02:52 PM by Forkboy
if all that goes on here is a bunch of people "yes'ing each other" why is it so "odious"? If everyone agreed it would be flowers and puppies,not "odious".

If Democratic Underground better mirrored the Democratic party, this stuff just wouldn't be acceptable, but that's life.

What stuff,the bigotry from some on the pro-Israel side?

You seem genuinely shocked that you came here and people actually disagree with you.

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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-03 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Not true.
This forum has a great majority of pro-Pal posters. What I was genuinely shocked about is that fact.

Subsequently, I have been told by several members that they just don't enter I/P because of what I referred to as "odious".

I think that's very sad.
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sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-03 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. How can you not be
Edited on Fri Nov-07-03 06:13 PM by sushi
for a state for the Palestinians, FBB? Everybody needs a homeland. Does that shock you? The Kurds also need a home, so do the Armenians, and I don't know who else. Your side keeps mentioning Jordan because the majority in Jordan came from Palestine. Well, the majority in the US came from Europe - should the American Indians demand they go back to Europe?

The I/P conflict is a fight over land, and everybody knows that Israel is annexing more and more land. The (what you call) "pro-Pal posters" just want the Palestinians to have a state, a home. For this to happen they have to get together and talk, and keep talking, but Israel's PM is stalling, and you know it.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. Actually about that majority - let me quote Jack Rabbit's post
From the Central Intelligence Agency:

Population (2002 est) of the {link:www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/we.html#People|West Bank]: 2.2 milllion (plus 187,000 Israeli settlers)
Population (2002 est) of the Gaza Strip: 1.3 million (plus 5,000 Israeli settlers)

Total population of the West Bank and Gaza: 3.5 million (plus 192,000 Israeli settlers)

From Nation by Nation:

Population (2002 est) of Jordan: 5.3 million, including about 1.5 Palestinian Arabs.

Population of Jordan by percentage:

Palestinian: 28.3%
Non-Palestinian: 71.7%

Total Palestinian population of the West Bank, Gaza and Jordan: 5 million

Broken down by percentage:
West Bank: 44%
Gaza: 26%

Total West Bank and Gaza: 70%

Jordan: 30%


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rini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #42
48. They had a state called Jordon, they refused,
another state was made for them out of Israel, they refused.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Please, Ma'am
Leave go the idea that Trans-Jordan was an "Arab Palestinian" state. It is not true.

The original Emirate was divided out of the area of Palestine by England for the purpose of facilitating policing of the desert east of the Jordan, to reduce friction with French Syria, which was subject to guerrilla raids originating from there. It had nothing to do with the persons resident at that time west of the river, whether in the valley itself, or the littoral.

Mr. Churchill stated specifically the area west of the river was not to be viewed as dedicated exclusively to the Jewish "National Home", but to contain both the immigrants, and the natives.
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sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. The Palestinians are the minority
in Jordan (see Jack Rabbit's post, repeated by bluesoul), so how can you say that.

"another state was made for them out of Israel, they refused."

Could it be they refused because it was a state on Israel's terms, and not acceptable to Palestinians?

Why doesn't Israel reclaim land from the sea instead of taking it from other people? Singapore has done it successfully, but they can't go too far because Indonesia is watching.




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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. For reference
Post number 29 Take risks for peace rather than hatred, Ashrawi urges Sydney...):

From the Central Intelligence Agency:

Population (2002 est) of the West Bank: 2.2 milllion (plus 187,000 Israeli settlers)
Population (2002 est) of the Gaza Strip: 1.3 million (plus 5,000 Israeli settlers)

Total population of the West Bank and Gaza: 3.5 million (plus 192,000 Israeli settlers)

From Nation by Nation:

Population (2002 est) of Jordan: 5.3 million, including about 1.5 Palestinian Arabs.

Population of Jordan by percentage:

Palestinian: 28.3%
Non-Palestinian: 71.7%

Total Palestinian population of the West Bank, Gaza and Jordan: 5 million

Broken down by percentage:
West Bank: 44%
Gaza: 26%

Total West Bank and Gaza: 70%

Jordan: 30%
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sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Maybe drdon326 prefers
to give a peace prize to someone else? I suggest Edgar Bronfman!
But I think drdon326 prefers to give it to Isi Liebler.

In a feature by Elisabeth Wynhausen, in The Australian, I read the following:

"The issue of the right of the worldwide Diaspora to dissent from the official line blew up several months ago when Edgar Bronfman, president of the World Jewish Congress, wrote to President George W. Bush asking him to put pressure on Israel over the construction of the so-called security fence - the 8m-high steel and concrete wall enclosing Gaza and the West Bank. Its construction involves a de facto annexation of tens of thousands of hectares of Palestinian land....Bronfman was quickly attacked by his own deputy leader Isi Liebler...

---

It was the decision of the Sydney Peace Foundation to give its peace prize to Hanan Ashrawi. It is THEIR peace prize and Hanan Ashrawi is THEIR choice. Those against should accept it and wait for another body to give a peace prize to their candidate.



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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Speaking up for those who dissent

It was the decision of the Sydney Peace Foundation to give its peace prize to Hanan Ashrawi. It is THEIR peace prize and Hanan Ashrawi is THEIR choice. Those against should accept it and wait for another body to give a peace prize to their candidate.

No, sir, the right to dissent cuts both ways. I believe Ms. Ashrawi is a worthy recipient, but not all do. Those who do not should not be expected to simply accept it any more than I simply accept Mr. Bush's characterization of General Sharon as "a man of peace."

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sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Sure, you can disagree
with somebody's opinion, but those opposed to the prize for Ashrawi are actively trying to stop it. I hope nobody gets too aggressive. Hanan Ashrawi should have people protecting her against some silly person who might want to harm her in Sydney.






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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
17.  What does JDL stand for?
I think those actively protesting Ashrawi's peace prize are probably already regretting doing so. If they'd just ignored it it would have "happened, finished, and gone." Now they look mean-spirited.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Jewish Defense League.
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sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Thank you.
:)
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. To Sushi and BlueSoul
If Benny Elon or General Sharon were given some sort of award recognizing what, in the opinion of some origanization, is thought to be a positive contribution to peace in the Middle East, I believe all three of us would be on the same page in calling it ludicrous. If that award were to be presented by the Governor of our state, we'd make it clear that he is not speaking for us, suggest it is inappropriate for him to present the award and "demand" that he not present the award (knowing that he will anyway).

That much we would have a right to do. So do opponents of the awarding of the prize to Dr. Asrawi. Of course, she should be protected from "some JDL activist". However, what I believe that from which you are suggesting she needs to be protected goes well beyond what is necessary to express one's point of view. I would also expect and even desire security for General Sharon or Mr. Elon in similar circumstances, although I hold them both in low esteem.

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sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I think you're right
but I'm sure Israel's PM already has the best protection (I don't know who Benny Elon is), and there are a lot of sick people around.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-03 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #20
32. Jack
A bit late, and no offence but there is a big difference between Ashrawi and Sharon. She isn't the one that led the Palestinians nor does she have the bloody past that Sharon has. Comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges, even having in mind that they'r on opposite sides IMHO
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-03 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. I was trying to name people to whom we would object
You're right, Sharon doesn't compare to Dr. Ashrawi for the reasons you give. Benny Elon doesn't compare to her, either. She has worked for a bilateral peace between Israel and Palestine. Elon's idea of peace is an ethnically cleansed Eretz Israel.

Dr. Ashrawi's position among the Palestinians would be best compared to a leading Israeli who negotiated opposite her in the Oslo process. However, I wouldn't object to recognizing such a person's contribution towards peace, would you?
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-03 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. No
I wouldn't. We agree :)
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Maybe drdon326 prefers
not to be 2nd-guessed.

He or Rini would be good choices, actually.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. good choices for what?
.
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Referring you to #11.
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. it really should go
right next to Arafat's Nobel

and, yes, both prizes should be shoved
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 05:23 AM
Response to Original message
24. there are already a couple threads, so I'll add this other article here
Edited on Wed Nov-05-03 05:24 AM by Aidoneus
4 slight alterations.

Z------s try to prevent Hanan Ashrawi receiving the Sydney Peace Prize
By Cheryl McDermid
5 November 2003


The unanimous decision by the Sydney Peace Foundation, functioning under the auspices of the University of Sydney, to present the 2003 Sydney Peace Prize to Palestinian leader Hanan Ashrawi, has resulted in an avalanche of intimidation, coercion and bullying by Z------s and other right-wing layers in Australia intent on forcing a retraction. Behind their scurrilous campaign is an attempt to equate any criticism of the criminal policies of the Sharon regime with a defence of terrorism.

Begun in 1998, the Sydney Peace Prize is the only international award of its kind presented in Australia and provides $50,000 in prize money to the winner.

All previous beneficiaries, including Desmond Tutu, former UN Human Rights Commissioner Mary Robinson, former Australian Governor- General Sir William Deane and East Timorese leader Xanana Gusmao, have delivered their Sydney Peace Prize lecture in Sydney Universitys Great Hall. This time, however, in a blatant accommodation to right-wing pressure, the Universitys Chancellor, NSW Supreme Court Justice Kim Santow, has carried out an unprecedented act of political censorship, refusing to make the Great Hall available.

--snip--

Carr admits to being pressured by sections of Sydneys Jewish and Z-----t leadership. Australia-Israel and Jewish Affairs Council (AIJAC) executive director Dr Colin Rubenstein declared his organisation would lobby the premier regarding his presentation of the award and the NSW Jewish Board of Deputies requested a meeting with Carr over the issue.

From Israel, Bar Ilan Universitys Associate Professor of Political Studies Gerald Steinberg has launched a petition opposing the decision as one honouring war, murder and hatred. The Australian Academic Friends of Israel put out a similar petition, while the State Z-----t and Jewish Community Councils of Victoria have supported their NSW counterparts in trying to silence Ashrawi and depict her as a terrorist.

Prime Minister Howard and Foreign Affairs Minister Downer have weighed into the fray, aligning themselves with the insidious campaign against Ashrawi by proposing their own Peace Prize nominationformer Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, Washingtons hand-picked stooge installed to sideline the elected president of the Palestinian Authority, PLO chairman, Yassar Arafat.

--snip--

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/nov2003/syd-n05.shtml
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. I get eviscerated for my sources,
but you all believe the World Socialist Website is unbiased?

:argh:
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. No One Believes That, Mr. Bushes
Nor are the difficulties you have here sometimes related to whether any source is un-biased. Just about all sites dealing with this matter are biased to some degree: even to attempt rigorous neutrality is, after all, a species of bias in its own right, strictly viewed.

World Socialist Service is, for better or worse, a leftist organization, and may be relied upon for a Marxist view of all matters, and for a rather unfettered use of rhetoric and hyperbole, to boot. What you, Sir, and some others, are often taken to task for is the presentation of materials from avowedly right wing organizations. Again, for better or worse, these are likely to be regarded with disfavor in a left-oriented forum.
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Magistrate
On another thread I was indeed attacked (post now deleted) for my sources and so I went through my posts as of then (11/4). The source material that I used turned out to be:


MSNBC (2 posts)

ASSOCIATED PRESS

WORLD JEWISH REVIEW (too Jewish?)

HAARETZ (2 posts)

PALESTINIAN MEDIA WATCH (like FAIR for Jews)

JERUSALEM POST

THE ADVOCATE (mainstream, liberal-leaning gay & lesbian publication)


Perhaps, after reviewing the above, you might consider reassessing your message. In any event, thank you for reading.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Here, Sir
Many take great umbrage at the Jerusalem Post: it is owned by Conrad Black, a sort of vest-pocket Murdoch, and certainly tends to the right in editorial views. MSNBC is also frequently in bad odor here, as part of the media many consider little more than a tool of the current regime in our own country. While your characterization of P.M.W. is a reasonable one, those who swear by, rather than at, F.A.I.R., will rather brindle at it.

Apart from your own personnal efforts, Sir, there have certainly been citations lately in some quantity of right-wing commentators. Such citations are open to easy attack by their very nature, and some will take that course owing to its ease. Disparaging sources is an old technique, and sometimes even a valid one. Judging members by the sources they cite is somewhat more questionable, but to some it seems to provide a prima facia case of rightist identity.
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. You do realize that
F.A.I.R. is Fairness and Accuracy in Media, a left-wing source, and are not confusing it with one of similar title that is in fact right-wing?

As to your 2nd paragraph: yes, disparaging sources is indeed an old technique and it serves to keep the discussion off-topic. Can't people debate issues w/o so much diversion as occurs here?

So, how do you judge the AP and/or The Advocate?
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. No
Edited on Wed Nov-05-03 07:25 PM by Aidoneus
I don't understand the emphasis on "unbiased"; seems to me a rather pointless routine to expect it, especially when they show no such interest in it themselves.

There's a bit of a difference between them and "Palestine Media Watch", Fox News, Pipes' MEForum, The Jerusalem Post, Zionist Organization of America, etc.. While I'm of the perhaps peculiar position that I don't think any of them should be barred from being offered up for discussion (as there is often a useful message that goes along with such things, even before a word on the particular subject is put forth), there are some that fit in with the general framework of this site a little better than others, and that perhaps explains the reaction you've received.

Personally, I find that their works are of a consistantly superior approach and detailed backgrounds of the historical context for events being spoken of (quite useful, perhaps more than the reference to a current event itself).
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RuB Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-03 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
31. "ones like me who have been outspoken for peace?"
What the...? I must be dreaming...
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-03 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. So show us all where she hasn't been advocating peace...
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-03 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. If you're a
Palestinian, you can't be for peace. That's their logic...
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RuB Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-03 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. During the Clinton Admin Ashwari was on TV EVERY nite
complaining about Israel's response to Palestinian's blowing up Israeli's! She was asked point blank many times if she would denounce the terrorist attacks of the Palestinian terrorists and she danced around saying yes more than Bushie dances around answering for 9/11.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. So criticism of the occupation makes someone a terrorist supporter?
Mentioning the heavy-handed retaliation that results in the killing of Palestinian civilians makes someone a terrorist supporter? Publicly voicing opposition to terrorist attacks still makes someone a terrorist supporter? Okay. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up. Just one question. Doesn't that make nearly all Palestinians and nearly everyone who posts here who's opposed to the occupation supporters of terrorism?

Violet...
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Apparently
it does in their minds... :eyes:
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RuB Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. No. But when your standing on the bodies of babies
defending the actions of those who carried in the bombs that created the dead babies its kind of hard for me to have any respect for her words today. I don't have amnesia. I remember. I will not forget. Same thing with that character Arakat (sp?) He did the same thing. On the one hand he condemned the homicide bombers and without taking another breath defended them.
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. You wrote: "I will not forget."
Never forget

Never give up

Never again
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rini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. the weasel is easier to remember
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-03 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #46
56. You still haven't provided a shred of evidence that she supports terrorism
And unless you can, it's impossible to take what you say seriously at all. So far you've twisted her words about illegitimate historical revisionism, called her 'gal', and come out with some nonsense about Jordan. What next? A Foxnews song-and-dance where you call suicide bombers *homicide bombers*? ;)

Violet...
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sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. It makes not only
nearly all Palestinians and nearly everyone who posts here who's opposed to the occupation supporters of terrorism but practically the whole world. Don't forget there are people in Israel who are also opposed to the occupation. I hope Israel's PM doesn't forget to bring these terrorists in Israel to justice!
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sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #38
51. The first thing Israel could try
to stop suicide bombing is dismantle the settlements. Secondly, help create a state, that is acceptable, for the Palestinians. After that, if some idiot suicide bomber feels like blowing him or herself up on Israel's territory then it's time to flatten their whole place, and the world can say nothing.

Dr Ashrawi has said many times, and again in Sydney, that she is against attacks on civilians by anybody. She is against Palestinians blowing themselves up in Israel and also against Israel's attacks on Palestinians. Both terrorize innocent people.
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dudeness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-03 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
54. a failed attempt to silence Dr Ashrawi
Edited on Sat Nov-08-03 07:20 PM by dudeness
not only that, but a failed attempt to undermine the independence of the peace committee. the only parties to emerge from this debacle with any credibility in tact have been carr, the peace committee and ashrawi. australians have a history of a "fair go".. this episode has struck at the core of this mantra..agree or not with the recipient of this award..i don't care..but standing ovations and overflowing attendences to ashrawis speeches..prove that australians do not like being dictated to by any political lobby groups and cherish our abilities to welcome people of all religions and races to this country without the fear of vilification and harassment..the conservative forces have failed miserably to silence a voice for peace..shame on you all..
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