Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Honor killing? Young mother murdered

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-09 10:17 PM
Original message
Honor killing? Young mother murdered
A 20-year-old Bedouin woman, Samar Abu Jumah, was murdered in the southern city of Ashkelon Saturday in what police are suspecting was an "honor killing." The victim's 2-year-old daughter, who was unharmed in the attack, was found next to her mother.

Police and Magen David Adom (MDA) ambulance service received a report Saturday regarding a body of a woman found in an Ashkelon apartment. An MDA doctor pronounced the victim dead at the scene. The woman is believed to have been stabbed to death. Meanwhile, the child has been handed over to welfare officials.

A medic at the scene said the woman was found in a pool of blood and without vital signs.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3661082,00.ht...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-09 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. There is nothing in the story to indicate
that it was an "honor killing" well except the victim had an Arab name which makes all the difference I guess the victims boyfriends name who is in custody name is not given however.
But in the same vein is this an "honor killing"

A British man who murdered his wife after becoming enraged when she changed her relationship status on Facebook to "single" has been jailed for at least 18 years.

Edward Richardson, 41, stabbed wife Sarah, 26, to death in a "frenzied and brutal" attack at her parents' home in Biddulph, central England, last May after she altered her profile on the Internet social networking site.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Those English people are just not like us
Their culture and values are so insane, they must be liberated immediately...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. really, but it seems to me
the "glove fits" but it seem that this "grape" is being called a "cherry"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. It says that the police suspect it was an honour killing
I would assume the police have some reason for suspecting that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. No details just "suspicion" oh and an Arab surname
but well that's enough, but I know Arabs do not have "domestics" they have honor killings and you did answr whether or not the story I posted could be called an honor killing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Classic small story in the media
The police hopefully have more than a dead Bedouin woman for thinking its an honor killing, but you would never know it from the article.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. lesson in culture...
Edited on Sun Jan-25-09 02:29 PM by pelsar
first just because you cant read the article and pick up on the cultural clues doesnt mean they arent there...in fact they are there very clearly:

Unwed beduin women living in ashklon....that already indicates that she may have "shamed" her family. Of course this is merely suspicion, for all we know the family is very liberal and even supports their child.....or perhaps they are more traditional and are shamed by her, either way there are infact clues that indicate that far beyond her name, an honor killing could have taken place...your dismissal and subsequent "hint" that the writers of the article is racist is duly noted...but this is hardly the first time you've "wondered" or hinted at just how racist israeli society is

nice try.....except if you knew a bit about the culture, you might not have written what you did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. bull pucky I understand the culture
what I did notice in the story was that the boyfriend was not identified which made me wonder if he was not an Arab and even at two the child can answer who hurt your mommy
also note my discussion with Oberliner below.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Also
"honor killings" no matter where they occur, why, or who does the killing seem to me to be based in a perceived insult to the family "jewels" as it were.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. To be very honest with you sir this is the problem I have
with the "honor killings" designation if the reasons for domestic violence were closely looked at you would find I suspect that a great deal of spousal/partner murders or those where other female household members are the victim fit the "honor killing" mold but it is only in the Muslim world that the designation is used
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. An honor killing is not when one partner kills the other other partner
An honor killing is when men kill a female member of their own family for bringing shame or dishonor to their family, such as by being raped or by committing adultery.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I covered that sir
Edited on Sun Jan-25-09 02:45 PM by azurnoir
I suspect that a great deal of spousal/partner murders or those where other female household members are the victim

if you look at the reasons adultery is one and rape not so much but trust me it has happened at least physical beating and attempted murder it happened to a close friend and her spouse was not an Arab or a Muslim.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I honestly do not follow what you are saying
Are you claiming that "honor killings" occur outside of the Muslim world, but that they just aren't called that?

You are saying that you have a close friend whose family tried to kill her because she brought shame onto the family by committing adultery?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Answer to first question YES
Edited on Sun Jan-25-09 03:01 PM by azurnoir
answer to second not shame on family as such shame on spouses "manly pride" is more like it and it has been my take on honor killings and domestic violence that for some the two are often one and the same family pride just sounds better or something

edited to add my friend did not commit adultery she was violently raped and by someone that would hardly be an attractive other it was a homeless crazy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I think domestic violence and honor killing are two different things
Domestic violence would be when an angry husband kills his wife because he suspects that she has been unfaithful.

I would agree that this happens all over the world.

Honor killing would be when a man kills his own daughter or sister because she cheated on her husband.

That is a different type of crime and appears to be unique to particular cultural and/or religious groups.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Honor killing is hardly unique t the Muslim world
Edited on Sun Jan-25-09 03:16 PM by azurnoir
nor is limited to example you gave it has happened in Asia in Korea and Viet Nam in particular when a women has become pregnant by an American, and that is just one example are you denying that father in every culture have not killed their own daughters for becoming pregnant out of wed lock? Brothers have killed their own sisters for such things too

edited to add that domestic violence and honor killings are not always the same thing but some times they are
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thanks for the info
I'll try to read up more about it.

Is there a good organization/website that addresses this phenomenon?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Don't know to be honest
but my knowledge is partially anecdotal and reading stories of Amerasians who were adopted by Americans or Europeans
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Have you done any reading on SHARIA law?
Women are killed or stoned in some of these countries that practice this, merely for being seen with a man who is not her husband.

Forget about adultery.

Just for not getting permission to leave the house, since she is treated like a minor who needs protection from any male relative.

Women can be flogged for even more minor offenses.

Your effort to equivocate this is mind boggling.

Yes, there is domestic violence,

But no, there are not women killed (because of the LAW) for "shaming" the men, who have all the power.

Find me some equivalent laws in other places, which clearly outline the role of women, and what they can be flogged and stoned for.

It won't look like these honor killings that happen only in Muslim countries.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yada yada yada
never miss a chance do you? MUSLIMS BAAAAD MMMMkay yes I am aware of sharia law, why don't go spout you crap on FreeRepublic if you do not already
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Not at all
It was to enlighten you, since you seem to ignore that Honor Killings, stonings, floggings are part of religious law in Islam.

Your efforts to equivocate these acts of human rights abuse and violence to other kinds of domestic violence fall flat.

I asked you to show examples of similar religious law that treats women like this, and you claim I post on FreeRepublic.

You aren't able to substantiate your claim, because there is no other culture or religion that resorts to killing women who are seen with a man other than her husband or father.

G-d forbid women are raped.

Then they are flogged and stoned for being raped.

It's disgraceful and adds massive insult to injury.

No one should even pretend to accept that this behavior is OK in any society.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I never said it was OK
your ingnorance and lack of contact with people from other cultures is however no surprise, if you want to disbelieve my post fine I for one care very little about your opinion
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I can spell and have reasonable grammar
Edited on Sun Jan-25-09 07:18 PM by Vegasaurus
because I am well read, if not necessarily well educated.

And, you have absolutely no knowledge of my "contact with people from other cultures", so that ad hominem attack falls flat too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Jul 28th 2014, 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC