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Naomi Klein: Enough. It's time for a boycott

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 12:42 AM
Original message
Naomi Klein: Enough. It's time for a boycott
Enough. It's time for a boycott

The best way to end the bloody occupation is to target Israel with the kind of movement that ended apartheid in South Africa

Naomi Klein
The Guardian, Saturday 10 January 2009


It's time. Long past time. The best strategy to end the increasingly bloody occupation is for Israel to become the target of the kind of global movement that put an end to apartheid in South Africa. In July 2005 a huge coalition of Palestinian groups laid out plans to do just that. They called on "people of conscience all over the world to impose broad boycotts and implement divestment initiatives against Israel similar to those applied to South Africa in the apartheid era". The campaign Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions was born.

Every day that Israel pounds Gaza brings more converts to the BDS cause - even among Israeli Jews. In the midst of the assault roughly 500 Israelis, dozens of them well-known artists and scholars, sent a letter to foreign ambassadors in Israel. It calls for "the adoption of immediate restrictive measures and sanctions" and draws a clear parallel with the anti-apartheid struggle. "The boycott on South Africa was effective, but Israel is handled with kid gloves ... This international backing must stop."

Yet even in the face of these clear calls, many of us still can't go there. The reasons are complex, emotional and understandable. But they simply aren't good enough. Economic sanctions are the most effective tool in the non-violent arsenal: surrendering them verges on active complicity. Here are the top four objections to the BDS strategy, followed by counter-arguments.

Punitive measures will alienate rather than persuade Israelis.

The world has tried what used to be called "constructive engagement". It has failed utterly. Since 2006 Israel has been steadily escalating its criminality: expanding settlements, launching an outrageous war against Lebanon, and imposing collective punishment on Gaza through the brutal blockade. Despite this escalation, Israel has not faced punitive measures - quite the opposite. The weapons and $3bn in annual aid the US sends Israel are only the beginning. Throughout this key period, Israel has enjoyed a dramatic improvement in its diplomatic, cultural and trade relations with a variety of other allies. For instance, in 2007 Israel became the first country outside Latin America to sign a free-trade deal with the Mercosur bloc. In the first nine months of 2008, Israeli exports to Canada went up 45%. A new deal with the EU is set to double Israel's exports of processed food. And in December European ministers "upgraded" the EU-Israel association agreement, a reward long sought by Jerusalem.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/10/nao...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Boycott Israel in support of suicide bombers?
Boycott Israel to encourage missile launches from next door neighbors?

Yes. Every nation wants to set that example.

I don't know why you're worrying. Surely the wealthy Arab nations are riding to the rescue even as we speak. Right?
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. babies & young children are suicide bombers? I did not know that
Yes, genocide is clearly called for when a few miscreants shoot off rockets that are, for all intents and purposes, hardly more than glorified Molotov cocktails (how many Israelis have been killed by those rockets? ZERO).

But of course Israel can do no wrong, no matter how evil it becomes.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. They're pretty much all future suicide bombers
at least according to the above poster.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. So you side with the multi-million dollar tanks that blow up schools with children inside?
What do you suggest?
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Oh, yes, because the dead SO care how they died.
Suicide bombing, aerial bombing, dead is dead.

I hope that one day you'll realize what a fucking idiot you are.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. Naomi's shlock doctrine at work. Pfffbbbbbtttt!!!!!!
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Scathing rebuttal
Good thing Klein wasn't here to see this.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Maybe you can elaborate. Not much of a dialog with just noises. nm
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
57. no kidding
I am so underwhelmed. :eyes:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I dunno, but I'm sure a skypuddle can take a survey.
Don't let us know what you find out.
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PFunk Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. Agreed. The sooner it's done the better.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 03:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. the "world" will do nothing......
israel can do no wrong.

what`s the old saying?
'money talks and......"
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. OK, which is it today?
'According to the world, Israel can do no wrong'

or

'Israel is a rogue state/ has been found guilty by world opinion/ has had more UN resolutions against it than anyone'.

You can't have it both ways.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
12. I strongly support Israel's right to exist, but I cannot support her treatment of the
Edited on Sat Jan-10-09 12:33 PM by bertman
Palestinians or her slaughter of innocents.

It would be very helpful to know exactly which products and companies to boycott and which stocks to divest. Can someone post this info, please?

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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I'm not a Middle East expert, but Israel seems to me to be the master of
disproportionate response. Get hit with a peashooter, pound the shooter into the ground. Someone could make a Chuck Jones cartoon of that, except it's not funny.
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ShadesOfGrey Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
37. "An eye for an eyelash"

is a good description. That's a quote from a former IDF soldier who is opposed to this massacre.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Why boycott?
Edited on Sat Jan-10-09 03:55 PM by sellitman
Just send Hamas more money so they can buy better missles and blow every Israeli city to kingdom come?

:sarcasm:
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Israel would love that
it would give them the excuse they need for their "Final Solution" in Gaza.

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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. A Nazi comparison. How creative.
Edited on Sun Jan-11-09 05:01 AM by Shaktimaan
Because up until now everything that Israel has done soooo resembles the Nazis, right? And all it is waiting for is a good excuse so that it can finally set up the gas chambers and start rounding up everyone with an Arabic surname to begin performing medical experiments on them and turn them into lampshades.

Jeez, if the Israelis are Nazis then I hate to imagine what you think the rest of the world's nations resemble. You might have to go to fiction in order to find metaphors that are evil enough. Tony Blair can be Ming the Merciless. Maybe the Americans can be The Borg!

Hey, this is easy once you stop being concerned with accuracy and reality. I can see why you're fond of the technique.
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Still Sensible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. The moral equivalence appalls me
Boycott if you want to and I agree that Israel has now gone beyond what I at least consider reasonable actions to protect themselves from the Hamas rockets. I also understand that Israels treatment of the Palestinians in its country is not dissimilar to how the South African government treated black citizens under Apartheid. In trying to starve the Hamas regime, they are indeed starving the Palestinian people in Gaza, who elected the regime.

That said, this is not the moral equivalent. Under Apartheid there was an absolute one-side-is-right-and-the-other-is-wrong situation. That is not the case with the Palestinian Israeli question. I'm sorry.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Under Apartheid
Under Apartheid there was an absolute one-side-is-right-and-the-other-is-wrong situation. That is not the case with the Palestinian Israeli question.

So when the African National Congress massacred white civilians in a churchyard, or planted landmines to kill whites, or killed their black rivals by putting a tyre around their necks, filling it with fuel and setting it alight, they were being "absolutely right"?

Ah, let me guess. You didn't actually know they did those things, did you?
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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Give me a break.
You aren't actually going to try and compare the ANC with Hamas, are you?

Apartheid was flat-out wrong. There could not be any reasonable discussion of its need or relevance as a political philosophy in modern times.

Israel's situation is far more complex and involves much more nuanced ethical questions. Neither side is entirely right or entirely wrong. Additionally the boycott of Apartheid had clearly defined goals. This boycott seems to have very amorphous goals that are essentially for Israel to stop doing bad things... "bad things" being actions that Ms. Klein finds wrong even though they are actions that many other nations also engage in frequently themselves, many of them being of an essentially defensive nature.

Apartheid was also an act that SA was perpetrating against its own citizens. This conflict is between two separate nations of people; there is no "bright line" that distinguishes Israel's actions from many other nations' similar ones.

What would Israel then have to do to get the sanctions revoked? Naomi wants to enforce them because of things like the 2006 Lebanon War. A war that has been over for two and a half years. How does Israel change the past? Promise to never do anything similar ever again? I'm sure Hezbollah would love that. I wonder how Ms. Klein proposes dealing with the situation when Israel inevitably starts being rocketed again. Perhaps Israel can call her to find out just how much or what kind of a response is "ethical."

Boycotts only work if the terms are crystal clear. Not too many companies will want to lose millions of dollars by divesting in the hopes that Israel will then meet the requirement and "stop acting douchey" or whatever amorphous goal they end up setting.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #24
36. Apartheid...
Apartheid was flat-out wrong.

As opposed to the occupation, which is kind of okay, maybe, you know, depending on your point of view?

There could not be any reasonable discussion of its need or relevance as a political philosophy in modern times.

White South Africa needed apartheid to survive. When it ended, a good portion of white South Africa packed its bags and left. Amongst the first to leave were the bulk of South Africa's Jews. And here's the really funny part, you'll like this bit - the only Jews that stayed behind and are still there today were the conservative, ultra-orthodox Jews that were happy to see apartheid continue, while the secular, anti-apartheid Jews were on the first plane to Australia. Figure that one out.

The only material difference between Israel and South Africa is that within Israel proper, Arabs number 20% rather than 80% of the population, which enables Israel to keep up its veneer of democratic pretense. I guarantee that once those numbers start to increase, that pretense will fall away very quickly.



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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
33. Very good points
Also boycotting Israel is unlikely to be effective, as Israeli hawks tend to hold a view of 'the whole world is against our tiny country; we must do all we can to protect ourselves!' A boycott would just reinforce this view and make matters worse.

Rather than a boycott, I would support America using its ever-present carrots and sticks of aid in the direction of pressing for peace instead of war.
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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
23. Interesting. I have a question though.
Edited on Sun Jan-11-09 05:21 AM by Shaktimaan
Naomi wants to enforce a boycott because of Israel's blockade on Gaza, (among other things.) She found it wrong specifically because she thought it constituted "collective punishment," right? But she wants to address it by imposing sanctions or... "collective punishment" against Israel?

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning. Israel's actions were in response to terrorism from the elected government of Gaza. The blockade was intended to deprive Gaza of the necessary building materials for rockets. But it was actions like these that now make Israel a legitimate target for collective punishment itself?

Additionally, any way you look at it there are many states whose actions are both more clearly immoral and also have far larger negative consequences for many more innocent civilians than anything that Israel has ever done. A few nations spring to mind. China for instance. Or Russia. How about America itself?

I find it interesting that the rest of the world can act in truly horrendous ways with little or no consequences, however the far more complex situation in Israel has people calling for broad boycotts and divestment.

How is this not a double standard? At the very least shouldn't Naomi also be calling for boycotts against Palestine as well? Or would that be immoral "collective punishment"?
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
35. Whether it is the tens of thousands of Sri Lankans
or Sudanese or Rwandans or even the thousands of IRaqi killed by those of different religious beliefs.

There is mass killing (of far greater numbers than hundreds, regretable as those non-terrorist deaths are) all over the world.

But the situation in Israel brings forth a level of frothing hatred that one never sees when discussing the horrific genocides in other countries in Africa or the Middle East.

I'd say go ahead and try the boycotts.

We'll see how people like living without their technology and medical advances.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #35
54. I think Ms Klein covred that one n/t
Edited on Sun Jan-11-09 02:31 PM by azurnoir
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Oh?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Try reading the article fo once
but if you want to put forward that those in the high tech world can not avoid using Israeli technology, something which would give Israel a great deal control over that area be my guest I would not put forth such a notion
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. I read the article
did you watch the video?


I suppose you don't need your computer, cell phone, instant message, medical advances, baby monitors, etcetcetc, that has been developed in Israel.

Go right ahead and boycott.

Your internet days will be numbered then.

People need to think of the consequences of a real boycott.

If it is important to them to boycott for ideological reasons, that is fine, but be prepared to live with much less technology and medical advances, if they do.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Well thanks for
telling us that Israel controls modern IT technology just what protocols did you get that from?
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Clever slide into your "protocols" schtick
Israel has the majority of the intellectual capital behind IT and many medical advances.

As I said, boycott to your heart's content, but you may as well be living in a cave then.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. LOL you still insist that Israel controls IT then alright n/t
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. Good try
The Protocols is all about MONEY (you know, Jews and their greed and all) and control.

The life saving and technological advances from Israel are about helping people ALL OVER THE GLOBE.

Not CONTROLLING the world, but HELPING the world.

Even you can see the difference, I think.

And these advances come not from financial capital, but intellectual capital, because there are more PhDs per capita, in Israel, than anywhere else in the world.


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rapier1 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
25. Challenge
Gaza is being compared to the Warsaw Ghetto.

My challenge: Find a genuine photo of Jews protesting and burning Swastikas in the ghetto. Anyone that finds such a phot will recieve $100 000
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. what a dumb post
and I'm someone who thinks that the comparison is at best ignorant and at worst malicious. And so what if someone produced said photo? That in and of itself proves nothing.
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
65. Why is the comparison ignorant and/or malicious?
The comparison appears quite self-evident, to me.

Imagine the opposite scenario, that Gaza and W. Bank were the last remaining Jewish territories of what was once a very largely Jewish Palestine. That Jews were subject to checkpoints, etc., in the W. Bank, designed to curtail and control movement, while a wall with sniper towers was being built around the whole place, and where armored bulldozers cleared land of Jewish traces in advance of ever larger settlements wherein people of Jewish descent had no place. Imagine that the other of the last two Jewish enclaves was Gaza, and Gaza had been under total seige for the past two years, prepping it for the "war" that we've seen these past couple weeks. A "war" perpetrated by a force that had total control of the air, and of Gaza's borders, and that had a military with as much of the machinery of war as the world's greatest military power could deliver it. All while the Jewish masses in Gaza were half-starved with an economy in ruins, deprived of medicine, and with few and far between weapons that were but toys in comparison to the military crushing them.

I find it hard to believe that people the world over would have no hesitation in asserting a very clear similarity between that situation and the situation of Jews in the Warsaw ghetto, and that those who denied it would be looked at askance.
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ShadesOfGrey Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #25
38. Welcome to DU!

Just ignore the arrogant poster above. She likes to try and intimidate newcomers for some odd reason which I haven't quite figured out yet.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. uh, no. not trying to intimidate anyone
just state my opinion. and what do YOU think of that post?
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ShadesOfGrey Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. I think the person is wrong and could google...

and prove that there were uprisings in Warsaw. But, I don't think slinging insults like "dumb" are necessary.

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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #38
55. That is when she is not spewing bile at other posters
with one in particular as her "favorite"
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
51. The fighting in the Warsaw Ghetto was a protest. n/t
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
26. I don't see how it can be done.
Israel manufactures things like computer components and software that's imbedded along with medical and pharmaceutical products. It's easy to boycott something like produce but not so easy to boycott other things that part of products.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
27. Worked to end apartheid in South Africa and it can work to end Israel's apartheid as well.
Clearly, Israel is willing to live with whatever small price Palestinians are able to exact.

Israel has its boot on the necks of milliions, yet its citizen are able to travel, participate in international sports, attend international academic confernces etc.

Israel clearly doesn't give a crap about world opinion.

Boycotts, sanctions and divestment is the effective,nonviolent way to ensure that Israel pay a price for its ongoing violent military occupation. It might be willing to tolerate a few rockets on the north or south, or not, but international isolation? I doubt it.

Tel Aviv should be the equivalent of Sun City.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I just don't see how it could work considering what Israel produces
and considering that the U.S. isn't about to cut funding to Israel. It's easy to identify agricultural products but not easy to identify or boycott, high tech, medical and pharmaceutical products.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. I think she's calling for boycotts at company and government levels
just as were done against South Africa. They can identify those kind of products, and make the decisions to stop buying them, or selling similar products or materials. Though I highly doubt this would be done.

The Liberal Democrats in Britain have called for us to stop selling any arms to Israel, which would be a start; but, again, I will be amazed if anyone in New Labour or the Conservatives takes up that call, though.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. I would ideologically support an end to arms sales to ANYWHERE
It's just funding violence and death - plus you never know whether some of those arms might ultimately end up in the hands of one's enemies.

That being said, it won't happen, as the arms trade is so central to the world economy, that the economy would go pop (I mean even much more than it already has) if the arms trade ceased abruptly.

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. And especially central to British manufacturing exports
It seems that whole government departments exist solely to be salesmen for BAE Systems, who seem to produce about the only manufactured goods we export these days. And others get told to stop investigating the bribery involved. :(
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
45. There's a blueprint from the 50 year Arab boycott of Israel
First, don't buy from or sell to Israel. Second, don't buy from or sell to companies that buy from or sell to Israel. Finally, maintain a blacklist of those companies. It was a wonderful moment of courage on the part of so many.
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. Update: Iran to boycott companies doing business with Israel
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=123142492767...

Perhaps someone would like to post a "Buy Iranian" list to show support for Iran's new program!
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
30. "Those that make peaceful revolution impossible - make violent revolution inevitable"
We keep hearing people asking, "why don't the Palestinians use nonviolent tactics to advance their struggle?"

Boycotts, divestment and sanctions are the peaceful alternative and the nonviolent means to put real pressure on Israel to end the occupation and change its policies.
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Good luck boycotting all the technological and medical products
and innovations from Israel.

I'd like to see how the world could live without the advances that come from Israel.
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ShadesOfGrey Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #32
46. What product does Israel make...

that the world could not live without?

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. I suppose that the world could do without them
but I don't think people understand quite how many medical, pharmaceutical and technological innovations in common use, come out of Israel.

http://www.doctor.co.il/ipgproducts.htm
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
66. Cuban biotechnology is available for the asking
And Cuba is not engaged in systematic killing of civilians in Gaza.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. If you think Cuban biotech is anywhere near where Israeli biotech
is, you need to educate yourself. And it's not just biotech. The truth is, it will be very difficult to construct an effective boycott against Israeli products.
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DogPoundPup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
41. WAAAAAAAAAAAY PAST TIME! n/t
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
42. Effort already established. Here's the link:
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ShadesOfGrey Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #42
62. I've been mulling this over all day and I've decided...
to do it. I'm going to start with the barcode method (barcodes starting with 729 = made in Israel).
More about the boycott here: http://www.bdsmovement.net/?q=node/9


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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
44. David Hirsch shreds Naomi Klein's latest
http://engageonline.wordpress.com/2009/01/10/klein-hirs... /

================

In The Guardian and on thenation.com Naomi Klein today calls for Israel to become the target of the kind of global movement that put an end to apartheid in South Africa.

She wants Israeli sports teams to be chased out of the arena.

She wants Israeli scholars and teachers to be excluded from the world academic community.

She wants Israelis to be excluded from the economic, cultural and artistic life of humanity.

She argues that this is the best strategy to end the increasingly bloody occupation of Gaza and the West Bank.

She argues that it would be more fruitful in the fight for peace for the world to punish Israel than to engage constructively with it.

She argues that Israel is not like South Africa but she quotes Ronnie Kasrils approvingly saying that the occupation is infinitely worse than apartheid.

She argues that Israel should be singled out for punishment not because it is the only state which deserves it but because it is the only state where such punishment would actually work.

She argues that a boycott strategy would not cut communication with Israelis but that it would dramatically grow such engagement.

These are not arguments for a boycott, they are attempted rebuttals of obvious reasons to oppose such a boycott.

Astonishingly she doesnt even bother to rebutt the most obvious reason which is that building a global campaign to punish Israel - and only Israel - would normalize hostility to the only Jewish state and to the overwhelming majority of Jews who would rightly and bravely oppose such a movement.

Klein wants to mobilize a mass worldwide movement to picket shops selling Israeli goods, to prevent Israeli sports teams from playing, to silence Israeli intellectuals, to boycott Israeli dancers, to shun Israeli firms, to black out Israeli movies.

She could only possibly countenance such a call if it is her judgment that racism against Jews is absolutely a thing of the past; a dead thing which could no longer grow; a thing which could never regain its virulence. Is that her jugment?

In Italy this week there is a campaign, no doubt inspired by Kleins boycott movement, to boycott Jewish shops.

In London this week a socialist pro-Palestinian activist was bundled off a demonstration against Israels war against Hamas by Islamists because he believed in Israels right to exist.

In London this week Jewish children have been bullied because of their responsibility for Israels war.

In London this week an attempt was made to firebomb a synagogue. There were attacks on synagogues in Toulouse, Toulon, Metz, Charleroi and Brussels; on a Jewish school in Brussels; on cars and shops belonging to Jews in the Kremlin Bicetre (France), in Toulon (France), Brussels and Antwerp (Belgium).

A gang of between 15 and 20 youths rampaged down Golders Green Road last Wednesday trying to force their way into Jewish restaurants and shops. A motorist was dragged from his car and assaulted. The following day, another car was driven up and down the road while its occupants shouted antisemitic slogans.

Hamas, the antisemitic movement which currently claims leadership of the Palestinians, and which organizes the killing of Israelis whenever it can manage it, has explicitly threatened to kill Jews around the world, and specifically Jewish children.

Antisemitism is not dead. Yet Klein proposes to build a mass, popular political movement across the world, to boycott Israel - and only Israel. She must judge that the danger of the accelerating emergence of antisemitism is trivial when compared to other political dangers.

Klein makes much of the precedent of the boycott against apartheid South Africa. But she doesnt think to mention the rest of the history of boycotts against Jews.

Why does she not mention the fact that Jews have been subject to exclusions and boycotts by non-Jews routinely and across many centuries? How can she think that the boycott of South Africa is the only relevant precedent?

What kind of judgment does she make when she remembers the Nazi picket lines excluding Jews from Universities or preventing customers from entering Jewish shops?

It will be said that I am illegitimately attempting to use the history of antisemitism to protect Israel from the punishment that it deserves. But actually what I am doing is pointing out the huge political irresponsibility of inciting exclusions against Jews - and against nobody else. Experience demonstrates that where there is a movement for singling out Israelis for boycott, there follows antisemitic ways of thinking, antisemitic arguments and antisemitic exclusions of the Jews who oppose the movement.

It will be said that I am worrying about trifling inconveniences for Jews when I should be worrying about the much greater hardships faced by innocent Palestinian civilians who are being caught in the current war. I dont accept the logic of this kind of political calculus of priorities. If I did, I would point out that hugely greater suffering of innocent civilians is being caused right now in Darfur, in Zimbabwe, in North Korea, in Congo, in Sri Lanka, in Afghanistan, in Iraq and in many other places. But antisemitism is, in itself, a serious harm and a serious danger. It is dangerous to Jews; it is a danger to peace in the Middle East; it infects and disables Palestine solidarity movements; it acts as an indicator of a profound sickness in precisely the kind of non-socialist radical political current of which Klein claims leadership.

Even if a boycott of Israel was a good idea in some ways, the danger of encouraging an antisemitic movement would outweigh the good. But in fact, there is nothing good about the arguments to boycott Israel - and only Israel.

Boycott is not a non-violent strategy as Klein argues. It is counterposed to a politics of peace and reconciliation between Israel and Palestine. It is war against Israel by other means. Boycott would therefore not be effective in ending the occupation. It could only be experienced by Israelis as an antisemitic attack. Israel was born in the aftermath of an antisemitic attack. It was an attack from which all of the worlds civilization was unable to rescue the Jews. It was an attack which drove many Jews to the conclusion that in the future they should put themselves in a position to defend themselves against antisemtic attacks without relying on anybody else. Boycott would not bring out the dove in most Israelis.

Israel is not like apartheid South Africa. I made that argument here. Other people made it here.

In backing a global anti-apartheid movement against Israel Klein is making a serious error of political judgment. But more importantly she is acting in a politically irresponsible way.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. He does make a good point. The world shouldn't boycott only Israel.
They should boycott us as well.
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
47. How about instead focusing on giving Israel an attractive alternative
For example, a sincere Palestinian peace and coexistence movement, rather than one that views any negotiated solution as a step in the ultimate goal of getting rid of Israel.

I suspect that if Israelis face boycotts and are pressured to accept Hamas rockets, they will view it as a no-win situation and continue on the same path of providing for their own security and figuring the rest of the world opposes it.
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Israel already is pressured to accept terrorism and Hamas rockets
No one in the world speaks up for her, and so she must protect herself.

Boycotts aren't going to stop Israel from protecting herself.

The innocent Palestninas, not the nihilists in Hamas, IJ and the rest of the many militant groups, may want to goad Israel with their deathwishes, but they will only succeed in making their people infinitely more miserable.

Dumb choice.
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
53. So you want to boycott Israel?
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
59. Kick
:thumbsup:
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
69. Justice
denied is the problem all over the planet,is it just for Israel to occupy and slaughter the citizens of any country in the middle east,knowing that America will protect them?.Some of the posters seem to think the planet can't survive with Israel high tech,that is crap and the poster,know thats not true.What are we waiting for Israel, to start ww3?,wake up slumbering nations and put a stop to the madness.
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