Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

A Conflict Hamas Caused

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
 
ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 08:35 AM
Original message
A Conflict Hamas Caused
A Conflict Hamas Caused
By Richard Cohen
Tuesday, January 6, 2009; Page A13

Nearly a year ago, I was in the southern Israeli city of Sderot, where, on almost any day, you could see the current war coming. "The next Middle East war may start over Sderot," I wrote back then. I came by my prescience the hard way -- in a bomb shelter. That day, three Qassam rockets had hit the city. It took no genius to see the imminence of war. It takes real stupidity to blame it on Israel.

On some days, dozens of rockets fell on Sderot. A blimp hovered over the town, and when it electronically spied an incoming rocket, the sirens went off. In Sderot, the sirens were virtually a single, long wail on some days. Everyone took shelter because shelters are everywhere -- a constant reminder of the nearness of death or, at the very least, destruction. Even a dud can bust through the roof of a house.

I get the impression that Israel is expected to put up with this. The implied message from demonstrators and some opinion columnists is that this is the price Israel is supposed to pay for being, I suppose, Israel. I am informed by a Palestinian journalist in a Post op-ed that Israel is trying to stop "amateur rockets from nagging the residents of some of its southern cities." In Sderot, I saw homes nagged to smithereens.

----

The horrors of war are not to be dismissed or demeaned. In 2006, Israel accidentally killed 28 civilians in the Lebanese village of Qana when it attempted to take out a nearby rocket site. In Gaza, innocent Palestinians are being killed. The suffering is great and cannot be ignored. But what has been ignored is the series of events that led to this war. Anyone could see how it was going to start. As always, though, it's a lot harder to see how it ends.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Does the Mossad not still exist?
If so, what people expect is that Israel utilize their vastly superior intelligence and espionage unit to capture or kill terrorist leaders without carpetbombing densely populated areas.

We expect Israel to use political and diplomatic means to find peace - two powerful, peaceful weapons that have not been meaningfully used since Rabin was murdered by his own people.

We expect Israel to allow basic human rights to the Palestinians, such as medical care, food, and the ability to make a living by transporting goods and services.

That is precisely what we expect.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You nailed it.
:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. But you don't expect Hamas to stop firing rockets?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. inawcihdi
It's not a war crime if Hamas does it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Nice strawman.
Why is it that is always pulled out? Of course we expect Hamas to stop firing rockets. Nearly everyone expects that. It's a given. My comments are in response to the original claim, so of course they are directed at the claim that Israel is blameless for what is occurring, which is so far from the truth it is laughable.

As an established nation, and as the oppressors of a large number of people, I expect Israel to start acting like the civilized nation it claims to be. I expect them to not kill civilians wherever possible. Killing civilians is a terrorist action that I would expect from a terrorist organization. It is not acceptable in any regard.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Except that the terrorist actions continue to cause the people to be oppressed
Without terrorism, there wouldn't be oppression.

The borders would be open, there would be free trade and a good life for the Palestinians.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. So you claim
but the airspace and water ways were never open were they? The border check points were only open at Israeli disquisition except for Rafah which was under EU monitoring until June of 2007
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Except that it was your chicken that laid the egg.
The oppression was there first, not the terrorism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wellst0nev0ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. You Have No Proof That Hamas Fired Any Rockets
From the time of the ceasefire to when Israel broke it in early November.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Exactly. Who does it serve to bomb Gaza? The Israelis...I think not and
most certainly not the Gazans. But when you thnk about it the U.S. has done the same as Israel is doing in respect to Iraq.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. It has been well explained why Israel is bombing Gaza however, I
think we need to ask, why is Hamas firing rockets into Israel? My guess is that the answer is of a more immediate nature than the stated Hamas Charter policy of not recognizing Israel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. The "funny" part is that Fatahs says the same thing
the wiki page containing that informnation was edited around 11:35 PM yesterday and the entire section is gone, what a surprise as it has posted this a number of times it was inevitable

but here is a link to the PLO charter of which Fatah is a part

http://www.iris.org.il/plochart.htm

and an article from a favorite publication of Israel supporters about the subject

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.aspx/20...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Thank you....will read! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Fatah is not lobbing rockets into Israel
they seem to really be interested in improving their lives by finally getting a state.

The fact that Hamas is so evil that they care more about terrorism than getting a state is why they won't be getting one soon.

And the innocent people will continue to suffer, as long as Hamas is control of Gaza.

The Israelis would be doing the entire region a favor to take out Hamas completely.

No one wants those extremists upsetting the regional equilibrium.

That's why the Arab states are so quiet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. The al aqsa brigades
who are part of Fatah were the ones lobbing rockets over the summer, but Fatah had no reason to want the cease fire to fail did it? Who are the Israeli handing Gaza or whats left of it over to again?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Any Fatah member who isn't colluding with Hamas is kidnapped or murdered
Those rocket lobbers were very much part of Hamas's team, no matter what they called themselves.

There are so many militant groups, who could keep track, but Hamas knows which ones are on their side.

All the rest are done away with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Ah ha they were also arrested by Hamas for their actions
at the time the claim was that al aqsa was angry because the OPT was not included in the cease fire
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. Blaming one side or the other is pointlessly futile.
Edited on Tue Jan-06-09 10:41 AM by sparosnare
This author, while acknowledging the horrors of war, writes from a decidedly slanted point of view. Until this sort of thinking stops, there will never be a resolution.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
13. The blame lies in the hands of Hamas AND the Israeli Government
Anyone who cannot see that both sides have some responsibility in this is really not looking at things clearly.

It has become a vicious circle. It's as if each side is a 6 year old on the playground screaming "He hit me first, I had the ball first"

Nothing will be resolved in the I/P situation until there are people in charge who are committed to treating others with care and respect. I mean real care and respect, not just the empty words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Absolutely correct.
Edited on Tue Jan-06-09 11:27 AM by Vash the Stampede
Unfortunately, each side truly believes that the moment they stop slapping each other, the other side will wipe them out entirely. Which is where foreign assurances must come into play, but have not.

edit: typo
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. And all that is being accomplished is more extremists being created on all sides.
Edited on Tue Jan-06-09 11:55 AM by Marrah_G
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnOhioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Too bad I can't rec a response...this one deserves it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StudsT Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. the Blame Infinite Loop, when both are guilty, gets us nowhere... will our leaders admit that?
I am expecting a more adult response to our problems with the new administration.

StudsT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Nov 25th 2014, 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC